Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay, good morning everyone. Thank you. Oh, thank you, Doug. That has been bugging me and I forgot anything crooked.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: Was crooked. So,

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: good morning. This morning, we are picking up S-one 157 again, an act relating to recovery resident certification. This morning, we are hearing primarily from people with and we are also going to hear from one provider. We're going to start off the morning with Brenda Steady. Welcome, Brenda, to the witness chair. It's been a while since you've been in it.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: You. Testing my ability to answer places at once, too. Okay. So, good morning. For the record, I am Brenda Siegel, the executive director of End Homelessness Vermont. And for this purpose, an important note that I actually do consulting on human services and drug policy as well. And most importantly to this testimony for me, I know that some of you have not heard that from this side of me, I am a personal lived experience of losing loved ones to overdose. In 2018, my nephew, Kaya Siegel, died of an overdose after a year in recovery. And he was the son of my brother who died just over twenty years before him, also while using heroin. Both suffered from bipolar and severe trauma. And with twenty years between them, we could not find the supports that they needed, that we needed in our state. And I have to say in the work I do now, that's still very difficult. I had taken a huge part in Kaya's upbringing. And I helped raise him, and losing him altered my life and the life of all the children in my family in ways that are impossible to describe or completely heal from. It is a loss that I wish on no one that has happened to my family twice. Taya's most serious relapse was when he was exited from a recovery residence into homelessness. People with substance use disorder have a medical condition, and they often struggle with severe trauma and mental illness. So that means that they need support. What is important to understand is that while this is happening, that people are getting a little more support than they did the last time I was before you when they're in this process. When we say that no one was exited into homelessness, I just want to clarify that that must have meant, I don't think it was ill will, must have meant unsheltered homelessness because we work with people who were exited from recovery residences into sheltered homelessness. And for four years, I was a member of an extremely diverse group of stakeholders who tried very hard with all the best intentions to come to an agreement and never did. And two years ago, I came and said what that compromise was so that can be found. I don't support a wholesale exemption from a landlord tenant law for recovery residents and residences. However, I did read through Tom Dalton's testimony and found that though he does not support that either in Vermont, his criminal justice reform do not. He also made some excellent pragmatic recommendations should the bill go forward. And I thought that those were important to look at. I want to clarify Oh, I already clarified that. So some of the suggestions that I have, some of them come from Tom Dalton's testimony, and some of them are our own. The first one will not surprise anyone on this committee. There are no disability protections that are truly baked into that bill. And I do think that there needs to be some disability language and protections that are baked in. There always should be access and disability baked into every piece of legislation. And we know that people, especially with substance use disorder, often visions. We believe that requirements, that the agreement should be required to clearly state that there is a landlord to tenant tenant relationship that exists and standard landlord tenant law where the exemption is not.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Excuse me. Are you okay? And I sent you a message, but

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: I can't walk anymore. Sent you a message to

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: stay I can't. Okay. I'm stuck. Okay.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: I sent you a message before I came to see if I Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I didn't see I was in a meeting.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: I'm sorry for the interruptions. Sorry.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: No worries.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: We're up. Sorry. So we believe that the agreement should be required to clearly state that there is a landlord to tenant relationship outside of the exemption. So the parts that are not exempt from landlord tenant law so that people who don't, they have rights beyond for the other aspects.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And that's something that Mr. Dalton also recommended. Yes. Heard you say that. You're recommending some of the

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: same things. Some of the same things. Yes. Do, this is another one that came from there. And I will say I had a long conversation with Mr. Dalton as well yesterday to try to understand some of these positions to see if we did agree. So I didn't just pick them up. So to clearly state that recovery residents, operators owe a duty of care to the tenant to the tenants. I think that that's really important when we're talking about something with such a significant can cause such significant trauma during an exit. I do think that the ground for removal should be limited to substance use, but I certainly think that the language should not be expanded beyond the two year exemption that was already created temporarily, because I don't see any evidence that it's necessary to go any further to have those type of rules. And I think whenever you infringe upon landlord tenant law with where people have homes, that can lead to homelessness. It also is a slippery slope. And I think we're seeing some of that slippery slope this year. And I just think that we should be very cautious as we make these kind of exemptions. I also believe that in the legislation, the definition of alternative placement, I do agree that it should be strengthened.

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: I'm sorry?

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: It should be strengthened, the definition of what a safe alternative placement is. Because right now it just says safe alternative placement. And I think we've seen in many different systems that when we don't have clarity, that can become a problem. I think that there needs to be meaningful reporting. Reporting is very hard to do, but it would be very helpful, I believe, to have some clarity about how we get the information of where someone went after they were exited, how and what kind of information needs to come back to legislature in that way. There has to be, and I realize that this requires an appropriation and may not be possible this year. But there has to be consistent access to appropriate red property stabilization beds, which right now may not be possible, but I think it at least should be aspirational to it's the language is in there, but it's not we don't the access really isn't there. It's not possible with what the funding that's been appropriated. Oh, and the division, the department should have harm reduction added to its responsibilities. I think that that's really important. We know that harm reduction works and it's not, it's something that is important. We know that for my family, harm reduction is what kept Kai alive as long as he did survive. And every minute that he was alive was minutes that our family got to spend with him. The language uses words like substance abuse disorder, substance several versions of not substance use disorder. And we would recommend that the language be updated to appropriate destigmatizing language and assume that that was actually an overlook. We believe that, and I don't think this was in Mr. Dalton's, that if you are removed and it's, let's say, at the beginning of a month or right before a month, that your rent, which we're calling membership dues, but it's rent for all intents and purposes for the person who's being exited, should be returned. That's really critically important to their next step and to make sure that we don't have long experiences in homelessness. We know, I know personally, that relapse is part of recovery and that that may happen in this setting. And that isn't a I think I keep thinking about Jenna's Promise. I keep thinking about that is The people that have died or lost their lives to this disease or people that have relapsed and are still struggling today have just as much value as people who are in recovery. And I want to make, we should make sure that this legislation upholds that value in those human beings as well. I started say that. The law should state that there's should be written notice. The statute should state that there should be written notice of any reason of an exit with people's appeals rights on it. I think that's really important. People don't, especially someone living with a learning disability, may not understand that. And also when they go reach out for help, the person that's helping them, whether it's us, whether it's legal aid, whether it's Racial Justice Reform, whoever it is, we only have one side of the story unless we have a notice that tells us what happened. And that's really important.

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: And

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: finally, I think it's really important to work toward an independent body for appeals. It's wonderful that we've expanded to where it is possible to have an appeal that's outside of the recovery residence itself or in the department itself. But I think we've seen in several different versions of things that happen. Is that self self regulating is not to use the term that's been overused this legislative session, but self regulating is not necessarily something that works appropriately and an independent body would be really helpful. And I don't know if that could be a board. I don't know if that would be the Human Services Board. I'm not sure what that would be, but perhaps that's something that could be studied or could be considered and a recommendation between maybe a diverse group of stakeholders, including people who do appeals to figure out what kind of body would be an appropriate body for that and come back to legislature with that information. That is all I have, because I'm literally scheduled in two places at once. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask them. I think I just want to end with I am sitting here, it was 2018, so it's eight years later. And I, last week, had to excuse myself from a committee because we were talking about substance use in a very stigmatizing way, people were, and it really My heart just sank. My grief came up. You don't The loss of a sibling, the loss of a child, the loss of a child you raised is something you never really fully recover from. And I value the work that recovery residences are doing. And I just want to see us do a little better of all coming together for people that are a little uncomfortable with parts of that aspect. I realize that it was really highly heated when we did before, but I think there's an opportunity for us to try again and be in a much more And really try to hear each other this time, because I think that was something that didn't land well last time. Thank you, Brenda.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. And I realize you have to move on, but I know you've sat through a lot of it. Often are encountered with folks sharing personal information. And I know the loss of your family members has got to be very hard. Even though it helps you to be strong in areas like this, it's also got to be really incredibly difficult as well. So thank you for being vulnerable with us and sharing your information. Appreciate it. Thank you. How many times I share it, it's still the same feeling when I still think about it. Thank you so much. My feet in the house is my niece that oldie. By 13 is her birthday. Uh-huh. So I sit there every day thinking to

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: my girl. Yeah. Thank you. I

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: think honestly, whether it's been a relative or someone we knew in our community or somebody we worked with, I think all of us have had some impact from substance use disorder in our communities and our families. Likewise, I do appreciate the fact that in the years that we've been working on this in the legislature, there's been tremendous growth in the system of We're still not where we need to be, but there has been tremendous growth in the systems of support, even just in the last two years. And I think that it's an area that warrants continued development. And I'm grateful for the providers and for Department of Health and for the work that I'm going say this committee in particular has done to raise and elevate substance use disorder and harm reduction treatment recovery all along the prevention. And it is work that whatever part you've had in it here, I hope that you're proud of because it is saving lives. Thank you, Brenda.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: Thank you. You. Okay.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So we have Angelica online and Victoria, I'm presuming is the person who is here. And who would like to go first? Would you like to? Okay, all right. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here today. We like to do introductions for people who haven't ever been here in our committee before. And we didn't do them with Brenda because she's she knows all of us. She's been here before. So I'm Theresa Wood. I'm from Waterbury, and I also represent Bolton Fuel Score in Huntington.

[Rep. Daniel Noyes (Clerk)]: Good morning. I'm Daniel Noyes. I represent Wilkett, Hyde Park, Johnson and Belvedere. Hi. I'm Doug Bishop, a representative from Colchester.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: Good morning. My name is Zon Eastes. I live in Guildford, and I also represent Vernon.

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: Hi there, welcome. I'm Esme Cole of Hartford.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: I'm Jubilee McGill, and I

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: represent Newport, Millbury, New Haven, and Bluebridge.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Good morning, I'm Rey Garofano, and I live

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: in Essex, and I also represent Essex Junction. Daphne, we go right around the outside of the room, including committee assistant. Thank you. My name is Daphne Caney Lamoille, so it means I will prepare.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: My info sign local action circles.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And I think you know these people over here. Feel free to introduce yourself for the record, and thank you so much for being here this morning.

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: Thank you. My name is Victoria Thompson, and I am a resident at Genesis Promise. Good morning. My name is Victoria Thompson, and I am 32 years old. And I've been sober for four months as of yesterday. I'm here to tell you that I support s one hundred fifty seven. And if I can have a moment of your time and tell my story, can explain why. I've struggled with addiction for more than half of my life. I started using at the age of 13. And on a regular basis by the age of 15. As a result from my extensive drug use, I was faced with the many consequences that come along with it. I was arrested for my first drug related charge at the age of 17 in Holyoke, Mass, with many more to follow, beginning my long term relationship with the Vermont legal system. I come from a loving, supportive family, one that has suffered right along beside me, but has fortunately never given up on me. As a result, I entered another long relationship with treatment facilities at the age of 18. From then on, it was a revolving door with just about every treatment facility in the state of Vermont. And being accepted into many rehabilitation programs over the next fourteen years, partnered with many visits to Vermont House Corrections. In 2021, I was arrested and charged with a sale of narcotics, the death resulting. I then went on the run. Therefore, I wasn't sentenced until November 2025. This charge stands for a two year sentence minimum and a twenty year maximum in the state of Vermont. With the help and support from my attorney, Jordana Levine, I applied to Jenna's Promise with the understanding and agreement that I would not have to serve the full two years incarcerated and I would be released to the program. So I was. I originally came to Janus 10/01/2025, with high expectations of myself and of them as well. But I was also very nervous, fresh out of jail, fresh into recovery, and very confused with what I wanted in life. The only thing I knew for sure was that I wanted to live. So I dove right in. I kept myself busy with every program they offered. I utilized every outlet. I went to every meeting, and I was present in therapy, and I created friendships with the other women there. I felt comfortable with where I was, but I still felt that something wasn't right within myself. No matter how much I tried to distract myself, no matter how desperately I wanted to be clean, and wanted to be somebody that my family could be proud of again, be the daughter or sister that they all knew so well and miss so much. I just simply wasn't ready. And I'd return to use. When I applied to Genesis from it, Sam made me aware of the precautions if this were to happen. So I was comfortable coming back and letting them know that I had relapsed. I knew I wouldn't be judged, scolded or made to feel ashamed of the truth. And I wasn't. So my relapse safety plan went into effect, not only to keep me safe, but to keep the other women safe as well. I was given many opportunity to stay on course, the staff stayed in contact with me every single day. I knew they were available to me whenever and if I needed them. I was to come home within three to five days recommitting myself to the program, which I failed to do. It was at this moment that I knew that Jenna's was 110% behind me and my recovery. They wanted to help me stay sober just as badly as I needed to. Immediate action was taken, and they set up bed gate after bed date for me a treatment. They called every day multiple times. But unfortunately, by then I was using again every day, and back on the street completely shutting out any support. Two weeks later, I was picked up by Hartford Police Department after a warrant was put out for my arrest and I was on my way back to a place I very well know. Not only the facility itself, but the shame, guilt, and feeling of worthlessness that comes along with it. I desperately wanted to come home and I needed to come back. And not a day goes by that. I don't think this program for never giving up on me. And giving me another chance and accepting me to come back and to try again. I arrived back home at the January, and I started all over right back at Square 1, which was important to me and crucial for my recovery. Thank you. Because I had no idea how to even begin. The care and support that I received from the staff allowed me to integrate back into a routine and felt as if I never left. When I came to Genus Promise the first time, I wasn't nearly anywhere ready to take my life back. But exiting the program and being accepted back has allowed me a whole new perspective on my recovery and my life. And with the help from this program and their staff and the pillars of Jenna's promise that each play an important role as to how this all works. I can finally have a chance to figure out who I even am. The chance that my addiction robbed me of years ago. I can assure you with every bit of truth that I would not be sitting here in front of you today. If I was never given that second chance. If they didn't fight for me when I no longer could. And if they didn't believe in me when I had so deeply given up on myself. I may be putting in the work, but I owe it to this program for even making that possible. Thank you.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you so much, Victoria. You've had quite a journey and you still have a long journey in front of you. Yes. Can you talk a little bit about the first time you were at Jenna's Promise and when they made you aware of what would happen if you had a relapse. Can you talk a little bit about what transpired during that process?

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: Absolutely. So they informed me of the process actually, when they did my interview while I was still incarcerated. A staff member, April, she had come to see me and do my interview process. And they had asked me then if I had a safety house to go to if I were to relapse, they informed me of the whole process that if I were to use that I would, they would contact the my family members or whoever my support was, Then I would go there for three to five days and then I would come back drug free and be able to provide a clean air analysis to test. And then I would come back into the program and start all over again and or wherever I needed to be, if whatever suited best with my recovery at that time. And so when that did happen, they contacted my family. And I was able to go be with my mom. But it was not ideal. It was I wasn't ready, and I was continuing to use so But they stayed in contact with me every single day. And they set up a date for me treatment. They had me do online meetings, and they called multiple times a day. But at that point, I had shut them out and just was refusing contact and was back using. But I fully believe that if I were to just have been discharged from the program, and I had no plan in place, I wouldn't be here. When I was discharged and then incarcerated again, I desperately wanted to come back. The support that I received from this program is more than any that I've received anywhere else. And like I said, I've been to a lot of treatment in Vermont and, and they're all wonderful. They all offer a lot of support and resources as well. But Genus Promise is different than a lot of the other ones. And they are very involved and give a lot of attention to our recovery and the help that we need. They offer so many resources and the programs that we are involved in every single day are really crucial, I think, to where I am.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: What kinds of programs do you participate in? What are

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: the things that are helpful? When we first get there, we are in an IOP program for twelve weeks from every single day from nine to twelve. And then after that, we have a health intensive outpatient. Yes. And then we have a health and wellness group, which is where we learn a lot of things. We do, we work out, we work on health nutrition, we learn how to grocery shop, how to budget our money. We go out into the community, we take walks, we've been to art galleries. It's more so just like learning life skills, really self care and health and nutrition. We also have DBT, which is dialectical behavior therapy. And we do that one day of the week as well. And they provide yoga, meditation, Reiki, bio tune field, something like that, bio tuning fields. And we do yoga therapy. We have music therapy. Once every other week, have someone come in and they play instruments with us. We integrate like our feelings and our energy and we express it with music and that's really fun. Then we have the Workforce Development Program. When we complete IOP, the Intensive Outpatient Program, they offer us employment through their enterprises. They have generous promised goods. We have the cafe and we have the coffee roasters. And so we work with them for one hundred and forty hours until we well, then we can move on to another employment or we can stay with them. But it's just to at least get something on our resume and to integrate us back into the working field slowly but consistently and yeah, and then residential. And that's we have staff at the house from 9AM in the morning until 9PM. And they're available to us whenever we need them. And the we have an office up at the first house, and there's two separate houses, Ray of Hope and Beacon of Light. And as you progress further in the program, then you get to move to the second house. And then we also have apartments. And after you've been there for so long and in separate phases, then you move up to the apartments and then eventually on your own. Throughout the entire program, they're with us twenty fourseven. We have full contact with them whenever we need them. They are 110 supportive to us completely and crucial to my recovery.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. Do you share a living space or do you have a private room or do you share we visited some of us a couple years back visited Jenna's Promise. So we've we've seen the coffee roasting facility and the store and the appliance. The stinging. That's a good thing. And the donuts. Yeah, we had the donuts. They were very good. But I can't remember how many were single rooms versus shared spaces.

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: So when you first come to the program and you're in the first house, Ray Of Hope, there are three bedrooms and they two of them are doubles and then the other one is a single. And it's all by chance. It's not, you know, not for whoever gets it is, you know, in any different phase of their recovery. But when you move to the second house, there are six doubles and three single or no, sorry, three doubles and three singles. And I currently am in a single, but I was I was in a double. And when you're ready to move on or into your own room, we applied for the single. And we send an email to the staff as to why we think that we need one or anything where we're at a recovery, privacy or any trauma related. And then they meet about it themselves, and they all decide who is best suited for. And so, yeah, so as of right now, I'm in one of the singles.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. Good questions from those committee members. Go ahead, Representative Bishop.

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: Thank you for your testimony. Can you share a little bit about the impact that fellow residents have on one another's recovery, positive, negative, just sort of how that explains Yeah,

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: absolutely. I'm with these women every day. And as you can probably assume, it's a lot. It's

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: I can really

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: imagine a bunch of women living together. That sounds like college days to me. Yeah,

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: my mom actually made that joke. She was like, well, since you, you know, didn't get to experience college, now you get the sorority experience. I was like, I don't know if this really fits with sorority. It definitely fits along with living with a bunch of women. For me, I I consider that my family. We most of us have been incarcerated together. But some of them, you know, I've met in treatment or some of them I've met, you know, even before. And being able to share this with them is something that I will never forget. There's good days and bad days, of course. And, you know, there's fighting, but there's also so much support. These women share a very important role in my recovery, it can make or break really somebody's recovery. The relationships that we create, the bonds that are created are incredible. Every single morning, we have morning meeting. And depending on what phase you're in, you either go or you don't, but we, yeah, we live together, we eat together, we go shopping together, we go to group together. We go through like life experiences together. Some women, know, are in custody battles, or some women don't have family. So we're able to support each other in those situations that lack for others. Yeah, I've been through a lot with these women, and I'm very grateful for it. Very grateful. I wouldn't want it any other way, really. But yeah, a lot, but it's definitely a beautiful experience.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. You. Thank you. The questions? Thank you so much, Victoria. And as I was saying to the previous witness, we know that it's really hard to share your personal experiences. Previous And witnesses had a lot of experience giving testimony in committee. My guess, this might be your first time doing this. One, you did great. And two, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your personal experience and the experiences that you've had at Genas Promise and your journey to get to where you are now. And we really wish you all the best in continuing that journey. Thank you. Thank you. Angelica. Hi, welcome. Welcome to House Human Services. You were online before, so we won't do introductions again. It's all the same people who are still in the room. Thank you for being here this morning and sharing your experiences. And the floor is yours. You can introduce yourself and then continue with your testimony.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: We can't hear you. Not

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: yet.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: Is there volume up?

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: You look like you're frozen now, Angelica. No, I'm gonna suggest that you go out and come back in. Okay, we'll be here.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: It's very Zoom talk, isn't it?

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yeah, yeah.

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: All right. When you come back here. I never

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: say that to a person in a row.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: That's pretty cool. It'd be cool if I had to

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: fix some problems.

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: I'm start again.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And we'll also try maybe without a picture. Angelica, do you wanna try it without your camera on? Maybe it's a connection bandwidth issue.

[Victoria Thompson (Resident, Jenna's Promise)]: Or before she's on.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Right now, she's She's rejoining? That's weird because she didn't disappear.

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Okay. Can you hear me now?

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Oh, yeah.

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Okay. I I'm gonna do it on my phone instead of my laptop. I apologize.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Oh, no. That's okay. We can hear you. We can hear you fine now.

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Okay, great. Chair Wood and members of the committee, my name is Angelica Phillips. I'm a person in recovery and a former member of Vermont Foundation of Recovery in Essex Junction. I'm here today to speak in strong support of S-one 157. My perspective on this bill is unique. Before my own recovery journey began, my professional career was as a regional manager of an outpatient substance use program. I used to be the one creating guidelines and programming. However, my understanding of what makes a recovery program work changed completely once I walked through the doors as a resident. In my professional life, I understood structure as a clinical requirement, but in my own personal recovery, I realized it's actually a lifeline. Recovery is a lifelong process of work. It isn't a destination that you simply arrive at. When you first enter recovery, your life is often in a state of chaos, mine was. Recovery residences provide the essential new normal through a framework of accountability. This structure, regular meetings, shared household responsibilities, and clear community standards is what allows an individual to begin rebuilding. It replaces the unpredictable nature of active use with consistency. In early recovery, you are still refining and shedding old behaviors. You need an environment that holds you to a high standard because at this stage, you may not yet have the internal strength to hold yourself there. For the home to be affected effective, it must be a sanctuary. When a housemate violates the community agreement, whether through return to use, theft, refusal to engage in the program, or a litany of behaviors that impact others in the home, it creates a flood of confusing emotions for everyone. You start to question your own safety. You worry about things like your belongings when you leave for work for the day. Most importantly, an unstable home environment becomes a direct trigger for your own recovery. This is why the language in S-one 157 expanding ground for exit beyond just return to use is so vital. Protecting the recovery and peace of mind of the rest of the community who are following the program is just as important as supporting the one who's struggling. I have been in both positions, the one staying and the one needing to leave. While I did not choose to use the V4 SafetyNet bed, one was available to me. I decided to use my own personal SafetyNet plan instead. This was hard, but I did have a safe place to stay when I experienced a challenge that meant I could no longer stay in the home. Now, because recovery residences operate with a mature system of care, reengagement beds at Serenity House and Valley Vista are able to serve as the ultimate safety net plan. This is what grace looks like in practice. It isn't just a second chance. It is a safe space where your sobriety is closely monitored and you can address the root causes of your current struggle. The committee has asked what it looks like to return to a home after an exit. In my experience, it is a structured process of accountability. It wasn't just about showing up again. It involved humbly owning the mistake and the impact it had on my housemates, providing negative on demand toxicology screens to prove my current stabilization, and working closely with my house coordinator to update my relapse prevention plan. This structure allowed me to return as a healthy, reintegrated member of the community. In my professional life, I understood the theory of recovery. In my personal life, I lived the reality of it. S-one 157 provides a legal framework that allows organizations to offer this specific kind of grace, a system that prioritizes the safety of the whole house while keeping a door open for the individual that's in crisis. I urge you to support S-one 157 to ensure that others have access to the same safe, accountable, and supportive environment that allowed me to thrive and get to the point that I'm at today. Thank you for your time and listening to my experience.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. Thank you very much, Angelica. One of the things that you said at the very beginning of your testimony, and thank you for forwarding it to us, is in early recovery, you're still refining and shedding your old behaviors, And you need an environment that holds you to a high standard because at that stage, may not yet have the internal strength to hold yourself there. That's a really powerful statement because I think that from the outside looking in, from people who haven't experienced a recovery housing and sort of understanding the, I guess what I would say, sort of strict adherence to the expectations that people have for folks utilizing recovery residences. That helped me to because to me, sometimes, okay, that seems like, oh, is that an infringement on people's rights? When I think about some of the things that we've heard testimony about or even looking at drafts of the bill. And I think that one statement actually really helped me to understand how that structure plays into somebody's recovery and how that makes a difference for them as well as for the Oh, we lost her. Are you back? Okay, we lost you for a second there. How that structure plays into safety for other people, but also for the person who might be experiencing the challenges. So thank you for that. Questions from committee members? Yeah. Go ahead, representative Bishop.

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: Thank you for your testimony today. There's as you referenced, inclusion in the bill currently is referenced to things beyond return to use, including theft. And it just seems to be theft seems to be a fairly strong focal point in a number of conversations, maybe a little more than I might have thought initially in in considering these this bill, and you referenced it a bit in your testimony. Can you just expand on that a little bit on what you had in your testimony?

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Yeah. So part of what is defined as theft in a home is also food. So if you have food items on your shelf and someone goes to use something and you didn't give them permission, the house can then vote that that was, you know, that that was then theft. So you have violated that rule. You've then violated. Regardless, it's pretty black and white. It's not like, oh, it was just ketchup. Like, It was a violation. So I make the statement because when you have a series of violations, you may be asked to leave the residence for a point in time and it may have been a few small things. However, this ongoing behavior that's affecting your housemates, your housemates are then frustrated that these behaviors keep coming up, right? Someone's in early recovery, they don't necessarily they haven't learned the boundaries of you have to ask for things. So I think that then expelling someone from a home is necessary because it's a continued behavior. However, I don't think that that person should then have to go to homelessness because they haven't had a reformed behavior. Is that helpful?

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: It is. Thank you.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It was interesting to hear you describe that the residents vote on it. Is that what happens at the home that you were?

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Well, I think that let me rephrase. I shouldn't say we vote on it. We all have a perspective is taken from each of us and there is testimony that we each provide and then it's given to the powers that be to review everything.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. So I was trying to understand whether it was a mutual decision that people came to the residents living together came to together. But it sounds like what happened is you gave input about how that behavior was impacting you to the people who run the house.

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: That's correct.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Okay. Representative Garofano. Thank you so much for providing testimony and sharing your experience. I wonder in the instance that you used, the example that you used about like the theft of food or if it's something else, when the person returns to the residence, then is there support given around that specific infraction or violation of the rule? Like you mentioned, maybe this person is early in their recovery. They don't understand. They need to ask for permission. Then is there once the situation is resolved, maybe they leave for a few days and come back, is there support given by either housemates or other people around that specific infraction?

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Yeah. So at each weekly house meeting, we do go over different policies at each meeting. And usually when there's been an infraction, I mean, upon arrival, right? You read through all of the policies, you sign off on them, etcetera. In the event that there's been an infraction and or a potential infraction, at the House meeting, we review different policies every single week, and then we sign off on them to ensure that everyone has a good understanding and examples are provided in those meetings.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Right. Thank you.

[Brenda Siegel (Executive Director, End Homelessness Vermont)]: Yep.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So it sounds like you experienced you said that you experienced being asked to leave. Could you describe sort of, like, what that process was like for you?

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Yeah. So I had a positive screen and I was told that I needed to find that I was offered a place to go and or I could find another safe location. In the event that I opted to find another safe location, obviously I had to provide the location, what my plan was exactly. So they wanted to ensure that I was going to be in a safe situation. And I had to just present that information and then have a plan to return. So making sure that I understood I couldn't come back to the residence in the interim until I could have a negative toxicology screen. Then that was then scheduled at a specific date and time. I had to obviously produce the negative tox screen upon arrival. And then a conversation would then ensue.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And so when you were welcomed back, was there kind of a review of what the expectations would be now that you were back? And what changed for you as a result of that exit being asked to leave and then coming back?

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Yeah, There was a very thorough review of what led to, I guess you could say, the infraction as well as my plan. I remember that I presented mine in essay form as how my behaviors were going to be different moving forward. In mine, I identified triggers, different life circumstances that were occurring at that time, and what my plan would be moving forward to ensure that I had the appropriate supports in place, as well as just a plan of action for corrected behavior. Especially with and the acknowledgement, right? The acknowledgement that I was affecting other individuals in the house. Now my housemates were there was an upheaval of everyone. There was some resentment, people were upset. And I understand both sides of it. So there's definitely a thorough process there.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. We have another question. Representative McGill?

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (Member)]: Yeah, sorry. I had a message from a child pop up and had to respond to you. So I might have missed this. I'm just wondering where you mentioned how you did an essay form. Is there flexibility for folks on how they might present that or do that? Maybe if someone has learning disabilities and struggles with writing, are there multiple pathways to achieve that based on a person's need?

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Yeah, absolutely. How it comes to you is often via email and often hard copy. And it's usually specific questions that are presented to you that you could just choose to answer. I chose to answer mine in essay form.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Any other questions for Angelica? Thank you again for being here this morning and sharing your perspectives about both your journey there and how your recovery is and sort of the steps that you've encountered in between. It's very, very helpful for us when we're considering legislation to hear from people who have been through the process that we're trying to determine if we need to change the law or not. And so it really is very helpful. So thank you to both Angelica and Victoria for being willing to share your experiences and to Brenda earlier as well. So thanks so much, Angelica.

[Angelica Phillips (Person in Recovery; former VFOR resident)]: Of course. Thank you.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. And I see that we've been joined by Kevin Hamill online. Thank you, Kevin, for being here. We have Nick Shark, who's in the room this morning, represents them. Good morning, Kevin. Nice to see you.

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Good morning. Thanks for having me.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yes. Members, we had been approached by representatives of Valley Vista in the State House that they would love to kind of come give a little bit of an update. Valley Vista has been undergoing some changes and some financial issues and some, I guess I would call additional oversight by the Agency of Human Services. So And one, we'd love to hear an update on that. But we'd also love to hear a little bit more about your I'm going to because it's the one term I can remember, but the stabilization bed that you have there at Valley Vista. We actually had one of our witnesses refer to it today. So the floor is yours. Thank you for being here.

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Awesome. Well, thanks. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Kevin Hamill. I'm the vice president for medical and clinical services for Valley Vista. I'm a registered nurse by trade. I've been in the healthcare field for twenty five years now and have been with Valley Vista for, it'll be six years in May. So, yeah, I mean, Valley Vista right now is over 90% capacity at both of our locations. So recently, December 16, we reopened our Virginia's location as a 3.1 location for 27 licensed beds. And that allows for an additional ninety days of treatment under ASAM guidelines for people to get more on their feet, be able to get things lined up for them, make sure that they have a solid plan moving forward while still getting treatment in the program. We offer five groups a day for them. They attend community AA and NA meetings either in Virgins or over in Middlebury. We have outside agencies coming in to do additional groups for parents in recovery, domestic violence, some bible studies. Individuals are, you know, signing out to go to church Almost, I would say 60 to 70% of our individuals right now currently have jobs and are working part time to full time hours. So it's it's actually going really well. We have a a wait list for those beds. We're currently still accepting applications from patients in our Bradford location right now. I have six people there waiting for a bed to open up in Virgin. So certainly looking at how we can try to figure out and accommodate more patients and and, you know, what the need is for how many beds the state needs for 3.1 and how we can assist with that. Yeah. So, you know, Bradford is is running right around the 90% mark for occupancy. We do have the re engagement beds. So there's actually two parts with that. There's re engagement beds, and then there's extended care beds. Our in treatment at the facility, have a secure location that's a safe location that's either going to be a sober living or apartment style living or wherever they're going to be going, but that location's not ready for them at the moment. So whether the bed's not available or whatnot, so then we have those beds that they can stay at the facility so that they're going from facility to the location that they're gonna be going. So that it just sets them up for more success as opposed to just releasing them either back to the same location that they were in or to a shelter. It just makes it a lot more stable for them. And then we have reengagement beds. Those are for people in the community, usually from our sober living homes that might have a relapse or are contemplating whether additional treatment is the right thing for them. They can come back to the facility for a shorter period of time, usually five to seven days, and kind of just regroup, do a little bit more intensive work, have a little bit more one on one time and more in-depth conversation about why they originally intended to come to treatment, what their end goal is, how this is setting them up for success, and then letting them kind of ultimately make the decision of whether they want to be able to return to that location or if they're looking for additional housing or where they want to go.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. So people might not have been as familiar with the sort of variety and level of different resources that you have via Valley Vista. And this might be out of your bailing wood given that you're the medical and clinical services person. But I had been in the news over the last several months back a while ago about the, I guess I would say, the financial situation that the organization was in. And I know from meeting with folks earlier this year that that seemed largely due to occupancy issues as one of the contributing factors. And from what you're saying, it seems as though that those issues are largely resolved at this point in time. Is that your perspective?

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Yeah. So in working with DSU and the secretary's office, of coming up with the plan that was going to work best for the organization financially and stabilize and have a path forward. That's when we, last March, closed the Virgin's location and relocated those women, which were the Virgin's location was strictly for women's only. We moved them to the Bradford location. So now staying at a 90% occupancy there and then repurposing those beds in Virgins for the three point level of care, which is essentially been at 100% occupancy since the third week of opening. We had a projected startup of being, we wanted to be at 20 patients by the ninety day mark, and we were at 100% occupancy at the first three weeks. So it was obviously a huge need in the state and is doing really well and the individuals are doing really well there.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. I called the stabilization bed. I think you called it reengagement beds. Are we talking about the same thing?

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: We are.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. So can you describe how those work at Valley Vista and how somebody would access those? Somebody who is not in one of your programs, somebody who might be coming from a recovery residence, for instance.

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Yep. So, I mean, we work closely with most of the recovery residences. Obviously, we're referring patients to them almost on a daily basis. So we have a lot of open conversation and relationships. So generally, they would even give us a heads up or give us a call with the individual to discuss what the situation is to see if there's a bed open and then getting them transported to the location. And that is something that is not that's not charged through the insurance, that is through a grant. So the individual comes and we look at what their needs are and then work to get them back. So generally, even more so when they come in, we already tend to know what the plan is if they're going to be going back to the recovery residents, or if that's something that we need to really work with them on is whether they want to go back to the recovery residents or if they're looking for additional placement.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And thank you for clarifying because that was gonna be one of the questions about how it's paid for. I think that my understanding, you just confirmed that that's through a grant through the Department of Health? Correct. Yes. So long does somebody generally stay in one of these reengagement beds? And then is it conceivable that somebody might move from that reengagement bed into one of your other level of programs for treatment and then go back to a recovery resident?

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Yes. So it's generally a five to seven day stay. I will say a lot of the individuals that have come in, what we find is, you know, if somebody, let's say relapses at one of the sober living homes, was that really their first relapse? How much of this is going on? And is it more intense treatment that is needed? So the individual would come into an engagement bed and under after we do some evaluation and, know, ASAM screening and stuff, is that individual more suitable for a higher level of care, which is offered in the building as well? If so, we would literally just switch them over to that. If not, then it's treatment work that's based on recidivism and relapse prevention and being able to get an understanding of what happened, what led to it. It was a shorter window as opposed to somebody who relapsed three years ago and is now just seeking treatment. Somebody that relapsed a week ago, you can kind of focus in more on what those triggers were that caused that relapse. So we're able to work more closely with what the actual cause was.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. Other questions for Mr. Hamill? Yes, go ahead, Representative Bishop.

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: How many reengagement beds do you have available, and how often are they they full?

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: So there's no set amount of beds. So it's just part of our regular bed population. It's not a separate location. It's not, you know, two beds that are are, you know, pushed off to the side. It's a part of our regular milieu. Okay.

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: So it's part of the 27, if I'm remembering correctly. Or

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Sorry. Just so just to clarify that's I'm glad you just brought that up. So these beds would be located at our Bradford location because these are people, especially if they're coming in for relapse and under active use, they'd be going to the Bradford location in case they need detox services.

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: And how many total beds are in Bradford and how often are you able to accommodate a request there versus unable to accommodate a request?

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Oh, so we have 75 licensed beds in Bradford. And I will say to my knowledge, which I would hope that I would have known if we didn't, we have never had to decline somebody coming in for a reengagement bed.

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: Okay.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Are there questions? This has been really helpful, Kevin, particularly as we're discussing this bill. We've been particularly concerned about the issue of reengagement and stabilization and people having a safe place to land if that's where they're choosing to be. And so it's been a couple to hear what kind of services and support that Valley Vista provides in that regard.

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: No, absolutely. I'm sorry,

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: have one more question. Go ahead. Can

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: you tell me what's the Is there a geographic catchment area, if you will, for someone to come to utilize the reengagement beds in Bradford or is it statewide?

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Yeah. It's it's statewide. We've certainly had individuals from north, south. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It's from all over.

[Rep. Doug Bishop (Member)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So being centrally located is actually probably good. Being in Bradford. Okay, you sounded like you were gonna make some final comments there, Kevin. Go ahead.

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Yeah, no, the other thing I just wanted to talk about, obviously, we work closely with the sober livings, is the other thing that this bill does is it puts an under treatment under DSU, which I see is a huge benefit for the services in the state as a whole. It allows us all to close the gaps in what levels of care are provided, and it allows us to all work with the same agency and be able to meet as an agency team and really look at where any barriers are coming. It also helps me to be able to know that all the sober livings in the state would be following the same national standards so that I know and I can feel confident with anybody that I'm sending to a sober living in Vermont will be getting essentially the same level of care, obviously varying different locations, and that's understandable. We all have a little bit of a different philosophy and that's okay. But knowing that the core standards are being followed at all locations, I find to be a huge benefit to the state as a whole.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. Okay, any final questions from anyone? Thank you so much for being here, Kevin. We very much appreciate it. And thank you for your testimony today.

[Kevin Hamill (VP, Medical & Clinical Services, Valley Vista)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay, committee. So we're going to take a brief break. I do want to make sure that people have seen the latest version of S two thirty nine, which is on our website. When we come back, we're going to have a vote on that unless there's any sort of final changes that people are looking for. Hopefully not because we don't have Ledge Council here, but we've done that. We can get on the payments if we need to. So take the next fifteen minutes or so to take a good read through S-two 39, and then we will vote when we come back. I know there's stuff going on in the Senate at 10:30. Is that when? Eleven. At eleven. Okay. So let's say until 10:30, and we'll let people who are covering downstairs in the Senate know so they can come back up. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much, Daphne. Oh, Rep. Steady. Yes. Do you have a question? Brenda, do you have a question?

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: She's muted. You're muted. We can't hear you.