Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Chair Theresa Wood]: Researchers wanting to I know. Good afternoon, everyone. We are back, House Human Services. This afternoon, we're going to hear an amendment on age six fifty seven, a bill that we have up with their reading tomorrow. And we're gonna hear the presenter of the amendment from house judiciary and legislative council. So which of you wants to go first? Do you want to go first, Representative Arsenault?

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: Sure. Very brief.

[Chair Theresa Wood]: You have this in your email from Jubilee, and it's also posted on our webpage.

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: So hi, everyone. Hi. I brought you from Wittleston, for the record. A few weeks ago, you all may remember Anne and Julie brought six fifty seven to our committee just for us to look at just a very narrow portion of the bill. And one of the things we were looking at was the immunity provision, which is on page nine of 8.1. We heard testimony that from plaintiff attorneys oh, ladybugs are in here, too. Okay, good. They're in my house everywhere But the provision as written might be a little broad, granting perhaps too much immunity, and that there might be a way to tighten the language to make sure that we're properly balancing the need to provide protection to service providers, help service providers feel safer, more comfortable entering into these contracts that maybe they previously couldn't with young people, but then also leaving open the door for recourse in the case of actual harm or damage. And so we just I'll let Katie really walk through the language, because she will do a much better job than I will. But you'll see that we've kept the immunity clause in there, but just made the language more specific to the goals of the bill. And then in the second instance of amendment, this was something that came up in conversation with the Office of the Child Youth and Family Advocate. They realized that existing statute so nothing in the bill language, but existing statute might have an error that was providing some unintended protection to shelter directors and others potentially for enticing unaccompanied youth to commit a criminal act with the child or to entice the child to commit the youth to commit a criminal act. And the way the statute's written right now, it says that's Okay. It says that they're exempt from a prohibition against so we want to just the amendment makes very clear they are exempt from two of the three subsections SUBJECTions. Subdivisions, but not that third one. So that's what the amendment does. And really, I just apologize for the lateness of the amendment. I think there was some confusion in our committee. I just kept feeling like we hadn't finished our work, and I wanted to just close the loop.

[Chair Theresa Wood]: Yeah. Thank you, representative Arsenault. So I understand the judiciary committee reviewed your amendment. Yes. And was there any discussion or changes to

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: it or any No. We didn't we didn't straw poll it or anything. It was just sort of like, hey. Remember when we listened to testimony on that bill, and then we didn't do anything about it? Here's what we're doing, and does everyone feel good about this? And there was agreement around the table that, yep, that seems good. And then, of course, the second instance of amendment was like, oh, yeah. Let's definitely do that. So Okay. Okay. So you'll

[Chair Theresa Wood]: be offering this on the floor tomorrow? Yes. K. Yeah. Alrighty. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: It is lovely. Like babies and the flowers. Good

[Katie McVennox, Legislative Counsel]: afternoon. Katie McVennox, the legislative council. I'll pull out the amendment.

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: Okay. Here we go.

[Katie McVennox, Legislative Counsel]: H six fifty seven, instances of amendment. So this is showing you what the replacement language is, but it's not showing you what the underlying language is. I can go over both with you so you can see the difference. This version of the immunity language, I guess I would call it maybe more narrowly tailored to the language in the build. So let's take a look. Any entity provider or health care professional who relies in good faith on a certification form presented by a person who claims to be a certified unaccompanied youth pursuant to this section shall be immune from liability for such reliance, meaning reliance on the form, unless the entity, provider or healthcare professional acted with gross negligence. So it's that phrase, right?

[Chair Theresa Wood]: Which phrase? Well, the immunity for such reliance. What did the original one say?

[Katie McVennox, Legislative Counsel]: The original one had language about contracting. An entity provider or health care professional who contracts with an unaccompanied youth pursuant to this section shall be immune from a liability for the determination to contract with a minor unless the entity provider or health care professional acted with gross negligence. In some ways, really what you're looking at is individuals who are using the certification form to provide a service, but it's not necessarily a contractual service. It might be getting a driver's license or obtaining healthcare. So in some ways, It's broader in some ways.

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: Will cover all those services. Yeah, I I get it. Okay.

[Katie McVennox, Legislative Counsel]: So that's the first instance of amendment. I'll show you the second instance of amendment. But then I'm going

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: to switch documents, because I think

[Katie McVennox, Legislative Counsel]: you have to see the original for it to appreciate the issue that's trying to be solved. So this is the runaway youth provision that we added. It was section 4A in the bill after the unaccompanied youth section. And there was language in subsection B about certain activities that weren't allowed. And then there were exemptions that certain people could assist in those activities. And we added a a person providing assistance under 4,908. Let me switch documents. I think that will make it clear. This is your committee report. So if you look at the subsection B, a person commits a crime of unlawfully sheltering or aiding a runaway child if a person knowingly shelters a runaway child, intentionally aids, helps, or assists a child to become a runaway child, or this three is where the issue is, knowingly takes, entices, or harbors a runaway child with the intent of committing a criminal act involving the child or with the intent of enticing or forcing the child to commit the criminal act. Then we go into the exemptions saying, well, these things are okay if they're done by X, Y, or Z, one, two, or three. But I don't know that this one would ever be okay if it's done by one of these people. So flipping back to the amendment.

[Rep. Daniel Noyes (Clerk)]: I'll say it seems very broad, like all shelters, but if you go in and read the actual statute on shelter providers who are exempt, it's only designated shelters for runaway children. This part of the statute was built in response to the Runaway and Homeless Youth Act, which is where my work, part of establishing the Vermont Coalition of Runaway and Homeless Youth Programs, so we could get the federal money. And so this just, it only is specific And designated if you go into the next, the second one, it requires that they attempt to notify parents and try and remediate that situation and get them to return home.

[Katie McVennox, Legislative Counsel]: So this subsection C, this is the change adding this phrase in, exempt from the prohibitions of subdivisions B1 and two of this section are. So we're saying that no one is ever exempt from the provisions in subdivision B3. That is it.

[Chair Theresa Wood]: All right. Anybody have any questions? Everybody understand what's being amended here? Okay. Alright. Are you ready for a straw poll? Okay. Can I see by a show of hands those people in favor of the arsenal and no amendment? Okay. That looks like a nine zero two. No. Yeah. Thank you, Katie, thank you, representative Arsenal. Thank Appreciate it.

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: Good catch.

[Chair Theresa Wood]: Yeah. And really good catch.

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (House Judiciary)]: Happy credit. Happy curiosity. Yeah. Okay.

[Chair Theresa Wood]: Okay, so have, we meaning the global we, Laurie and I, mostly me, have Last week was a long week. And I did not get sufficient information to Lori in time to schedule more people for this afternoon. So you have the rest of the afternoon to work on constituent services. And we will see you back here tomorrow morning at 9AM. Okay? That sounds