Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay, good morning, everyone. Welcome to Friday. At the beginning of the session, it seems like the weeks are really long. By the time we get to this point, it's like Zoom vibes, even when we have long floor. Even when we have long floor. So, okay. This morning, what we are looking at, and I'm gonna refer you to the web page, our web page, under Nolan's name. Nolan, you're welcome to join us at the table, if you would like. I'm just going to give folks a little bit of background about the language is a little bit different, and Nolan can explain why the language is different from what I shared. The dollar amounts are all the same. There's just the language is a little different. So first off, as you know, we passed the bill out of committee with essentially just one big lump sum in it. And it didn't break out $82,000,000 was for, almost $8,382,600,000.0. And that was because we needed additional time. And so earlier this week, I put together a spreadsheet that essentially kind of looked at all the sections in the bill and divided things up by that, sent that off to the agency of human services. They responded back. We had a meeting yesterday. They responded back saying, well, this isn't what the governor recommended. And I said, I realize that because this bill is a different bill. But we had a good meeting yesterday. And we recognize, as we do in the language, that this is a transition year. And so what I've agreed to, pending your approval, is that there are certain things that I specifically wanted to call out for specific reasons. Okay? The municipality language and the dollar amount so that towns can see that there is money specifically in here for them. Another one I wanted to particularly call out was shelter development. It's been a little squishy back and forth in hop funds between development and operations. We don't really see anything in hop. It's a big number. And so I wanted to see how much we would be looking at for that. Another thing I wanted to see broken out is the amounts for emergency housing, and that is broken out. Oh, it's not new case management. I crossed that out. Katie's coming at 09:15. I wanted to they actually broke out case management. I was willing to put that into the global more global dollar amount. So I agree with them about breaking that out. And then permanent supportive housing, particularly because that has global commitment dollars in it and permanent and family supportive housing. And then because we are creating something that's different, doesn't exist in this way, the $3,000,000 for the rental assistance program at Vermont State Housing Authority, and then the 1,500,000.0 for the emergency cold weather shelters that were stood up this year. And we did sort of call out the quote unquote other expenses because there is federal funding involved, they wanted to be able to see the federal funding. The eligibility staffing is essentially the 21 positions as well as contractual services for falls center and the like to operate, which they have now. So all in all, what that does is it totals up to the same exact dollar amount. And it enables what I would call flexibility in number one, which is for the housing opportunity operations to be able to transition to this new program, this new way of doing business. And it is going to take working with providers. It's going to take some reestablishment and reorganization within the Department for Children and Families. And we fully recognized in the bill that, and we stated that this would be a transition year and encourage implementation as much as possible with full implementation next year. So you might ask, well, does this mean that this is the only way, what's going to happen next year in terms of the budget? And in the bill, you might recall, we actually address that and say that in future budget years that the budget would be broken out by those services that we've outlined in the bill. So next year, when we look at the FY '28 budget or whoever is sitting in these seats, it'll be broken out by those areas. Yeah.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Can we talk about that last line, the eligibility staffing? Yes. The 21 positions? So are those still going to be an ESD? What kind of eligibility work are they doing? Are they permanent positions? I'm just

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: They're limited service positions that they have asked to put into base funding, which is good because that base funding will be split up next year and some of that will be going to community. Now, the other thing that I should note where under case management, that is a number that is 2.4. That's a number that is a little over a million dollars higher than what it is this year. So there is It's not all new case management. That's why I didn't like the word new in there. So I'm going ask Katie to take that out. I'm still just trying to grapple my What are the eligibility staffing doing? It's it's not all eligibility staffing. Okay. It it includes the call center, you know, so it's not it's not all the 21. The 21 positions add up to 2.1 of that. So the it's the call center and the eligibility staffing. Help me out on this, Nolan, if you can. I'm trying to think about it. I feel like there's one other big ticket item in there. Like the call center is like a half

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: a million I guess the call center.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I don't understand what the eligibility staffing are doing. During this year, this is, just remember, a transition year. So on July 1, we're not going to automatically be able to go to and eligibility might not be the right word, I guess. But we're not automatically gonna be able to go to the new system. So there's still gonna be people answering the phones and determining, does a person meet one of these priority areas? Have they used their seventy days? This

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: was pitched to us by the department as dorm parents for people in hotels. And now we know that these same people and their union are advocating for them to be able to have guns while they are out in the field. So I'm just wondering, what are these positions, and what will they be doing? Are they case management? And if it is, is that better done in the communities? So the discussion that

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: we had would be that some of this money would go into the community, and some of this would be at the department, not dissimilar to the split that we talked about. And I don't think that the concept is dorm parents. And we certainly are not Hopefully, it would take some legislation to allow people to carry guns. That's not what we're talking about here. And it really is intended to start to transition those hotel spaces into more programmatic spaces. And what the discussion was, was that I was encouraging that any of the DCF staff would be well positioned to partner with a community provider and do whatever they're gonna do in terms of trying to transition this to programmatic spaces together. I told them that there was not support for the DCF staff in the building, in our committee, in the way that they described it. But I also did say that this is a time for a little bit of experimentation about seeing what could work as we change to a new system. So that's that.

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. It just seems that because that is not just those positions, but also some big chunks otherwise, that it would be good to replace eligibility staffing with a different staff and some idea that this is more than just staffing, certainly more than just eligibility. It is, yeah. Right, That it be a little bit more expansive just in terms of

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: the messaging. I agree with that. I agree with that. So I guess I would say that we would say staffing and contracts or grants.

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Sure. I mean, even that

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And then people in that reflects.

[Nolan Langweil (Joint Fiscal Office analyst)]: Notes for Katie. So how would you

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I would say that 3.1 for staffing and

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: grants and contracts.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Grants and contracts. Yeah. So the other And would you have her cross out new on the

[Nolan Langweil (Joint Fiscal Office analyst)]: You got that one. Already sent an email about it, but Okay.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Another one. All right.

[Nolan Langweil (Joint Fiscal Office analyst)]: So to cross eligibility and just say 3.1 for staffing contracts, sorry, staffing grants and contracts.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yes. Okay.

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Anne and then Esme. And so the other thing that would be really helpful both for me to see clearly, but I think would be of value for being able to explain it to other people, be to see a side by side because we got it in so many forms of the governor's proposed budget. Well, have that.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. Great. Because I haven't No. No. No. Just showed it to me and I think confuse that people.

[Nolan Langweil (Joint Fiscal Office analyst)]: Have it. I could happily give it to you.

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: And the other And the other part is also like last year's. I I think, I mean, I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think the emergency housing as an example, that's certainly lower than last year's. This is based upon the bill. Right, Exactly. No, I understand that. But I think that really makes the point in communicating that this is real about moving away from hotels and motels. Last year, the budget was this amount, and now it's fifth because we're transitioning.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Well, what we have is a comparison of the budget as submitted, the governor's FY20. Well, which we can show you. We actually increased from what the governor submitted. I understand what you're saying.

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: I don't I don't have Last year's last year's for this year's governor's yeah. I mean, that was just about motels. But, yeah, this year's governor's recommend versus how we, you know, did it differently. But then in particular around the hotel and motel, what was last year's actual?

[Nolan Langweil (Joint Fiscal Office analyst)]: I don't have that. I have compared to the governor's rec this year. I don't have compared to last year. But I did send that to Laurie to post.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: You can go ahead and post it, Laurie. Thank you.

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Well, we should be able I mean, that's just like, I mean, I guess I can look it What did we spend last

[Nolan Langweil (Joint Fiscal Office analyst)]: year If on

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: you give me two seconds, I can

[Rep. Todd Nielsen (Member)]: send That'll be 7,000,000 maybe?

[Nolan Langweil (Joint Fiscal Office analyst)]: No, but she wants to break out.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Oh, no, no, just the GA emergency Just

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: the GA emergency housing.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Oh, we can find that in the budget. It's actually very easy to search. I

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: can't do it right now? It's a better

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: than some people than for me. I'm gonna call

[Rep. Golrang “Rey” Garofano (Vice Chair)]: that. Deputies.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: All right. Yeah, Esme, sorry.

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: I was going to secondhand the point about language in the last piece. I think that's a great idea for eligibility staffing. But also, I'm a little bit weary of the lack of delineation between what's going to community partners versus what's going to the office itself? Pretty much all

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: of this goes to community partners.

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: But I guess in terms of language.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: The HOT program, so I'm gonna refer you back up to A. All of that money goes to community partners. There's nothing in there for the department. That all goes to community partners. Mean, excuse me, number one, A one.

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: Because that's through the grant.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: A2 goes to community partners. A3 goes out in the community. A four goes out in the community. A5 goes out in the community. A3 will go out to individuals through the state housing authority. A7 is community. A8 is community. A9 is other, which has got some federal funds in there. And to be honest with you, I can't remember exactly what those federal funds are for.

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: And I'm sorry, just maybe I'm totally missing this. Know that because it's very specific in the language. Is it because of, like we say, hop or is

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: it because- Because all those things are provided in the community, Esme. We only outline that in the bill. In the bill, okay. So this is just the money part of it, and the bill that we passed, so without the amendment, it outlines that the program, and what it does and how it is distributed out in the community. I guess what I'm trying to convey to you, this is a gazillion times more detailed than we normally have for these two. We usually have one big chunk for hop that's not broken out at all and one big chunk for GA emergency housing. Now we still have just one big chunk for GA emergency housing, but we have said, out of those hot buns, we want to make sure that some of these investments are visible to people that they can see. And next year, they will all be visible.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. Is the plan, so for this next fiscal year for the GA, like the housing, the motels to be run continued through ESD?

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: No. No, so that would No, that's going to be transitioning to OEO. So the staffing is for OEO? This is OEO. Okay. Yes. Any other questions? Okay, so there will be two language revisions, one that removes the word new because it's not all new. And the other one will be in the last one that says it will say for staffing and grants and contracts. Okay. Is there Okay. So then the other question I asked you to think about is whether you want this to be all members of the committee or if you want to, know, it's got me on it just because I was the one working with Katie. That's all. So this was a committee bill. So I'm perfectly happy to have all members of the committee if you want to be on it. Can I say something before we vote? Yeah, absolutely. $82,654,153

[Rep. Todd Nielsen (Member)]: with less than 5,000,000 being paid by federal sources. With my mindset, I'm always attentive to the burden on taxpayers. While I recognize the seriousness of Vermont's homelessness crisis now affecting more than 4,000 people in Vermont, I remain concerned about what this level of spending will produce. Will it produce meaningful, sustainable results? Will it cause people, taxpayers, not to be able to feed their own children because they do not get state assistance? Will it cost people to feed homelessness and homeless themselves? Will it cost people to leave Vermont? Thank you.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. So does anybody wanna answer the question I put out there? No. I don't wanna be honest. Okay. Does anybody else? Okay. I'll just put it out as an amendment from me. If anybody else wants to be on it, you're more than welcome. I would like to be. Okay.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Are we getting another draft?

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Just, it'll have Yeah. Those two

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Yeah, I just wanna see that's the language. It's just gonna be-

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I have to go to appropriations. Don't do this. They need to understand what the vote in committee was on this. Right, and name on it is different from the vote. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, I'm sorry, I want So Nolan can take notes for Katie. Could I see by a show of hands those individuals who want to be on the amendment? Okay. Everybody. Everybody except for Rep Steady and Brett Nielsen. I know. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Now, can I see by a show of hands, this is a straw poll because it's an amendment? Can I see by a show of hands those individuals who are supportive of the amendment? Okay. So that's nine two zero. Okay. Thank you, folks, very much. Thank you, Laurie.