Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Good afternoon folks. We're back here to hear some witnesses around Vermont Housing and Conservation Day here at the State House and we're going have some opening comments, sorry, Laurie, from Molly Dugan. So Molly, welcome. And since it's the first time for some people being in the committee, I think we'll do a round of introductions. So I'm Theresa Wood from Waterbury, and I also serve Bolton Fields School in Huntington.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Anne Donahue from Northfield and also Burlington.

[Daniel Noyes (Clerk)]: Hi, Dan Noyes, representing Wilkie, High Park, Johnson And Belviders.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Hi, Good afternoon. Eric Maguire, representing Rutland City.

[Brenda Steady (Member)]: Brenda Steady, Westburton, East Melbourne.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Hello, Molly. Doug Bishop, Colchester. My name is Zon Eastes. I live in Guildford and also serve in, Berlin.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Good to see you, Esme Cole. Perfect. I Jubilee McGill, I represent Bridgeport Middlebury. You'll hear me my French. Hi, I'm Wei Garofano, Essex And Essex Junction.

[Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Laurie Morris, your assistant. Thank you, Ms. O'Brien around the room.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: Is scared. Think team

[Daniel Noyes (Clerk)]: Stuff blew over yesterday. Was pretty loud.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Yeah.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It's Eric's ride. Doing a very quick intro.

[Molly Dugan (Cathedral Square; Co‑Chair, Vermont Housing & Conservation Coalition)]: So there's no work in the door.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It We'll be for the next one. Okay. Hey, Molly. I think that the outside noise has calmed down.

[Molly Dugan (Cathedral Square; Co‑Chair, Vermont Housing & Conservation Coalition)]: Good afternoon. For the record, my name is Molly Dugan. I work at Cathedral Square, and I have been in your committee, not this session yet, but certainly in the past. I appreciate the time. Besides working at Cathedral Square, I am one of the co chairs of the Vermont Housing and Conservation Coalition. And I am just here to do a quick intro, and turn it over to, my colleagues who are going to take a little bit of time and to illuminate for you all the impact that the dollars that you all have consistently provided to Vermont Housing and Conservation Board, the impact that it's had in communities. And I think this is a really, important time, especially with all of the demands on you all to just, have a chance to see the impact that these funds are having. So just very quickly, the Vermont Housing and Conservation Coalition is about to celebrate its fortieth anniversary. So we came together about forty years ago to bring housing and conservation interests together, and that is a very unique combination. And VHCC represents over 50 businesses and nonprofit organizations from around the state. And we are really here, as a coalition to underscore the impact that these organizations you're going to hear from have had, in communities and in many of a lot of the areas that you guys focus on, which is especially this session and last session, preventing homelessness. So I am going to stop there and thank you very much for your time.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Next one. Thank you. Thank you, Molly. And I think we have Angie up first. Welcome.

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: Thank you so much. Good afternoon. I am Angie Harbin. Again, I'm the executive director for Downstreet Housing and Community Development. Thank you so much for the opportunity to share this afternoon. So super quick for those of you who aren't familiar with Downstreet, we've been around for thirty nine years. We're headquartered in Barrie City, and we serve about 2,000 people every year in Orange, Washington, and Memorial Counties. We're a nonprofit real estate developer. We develop, own, and operate permanently affordable multifamily housing, so apartment homes, and manufactured housing lots. And right now, we're operating a little over 800 apartment rentals and 85 manufactured lots in four communities. We also provide a full array of homeownership services. This is everything from, I'm trying to buy my first home and I don't know where to start. I have life safety repairs that I need to make that I can't afford, all the way through to foreclosure counseling. We also steward and grow a portfolio of permanently affordable homeownership opportunities. And we currently have 168 homes in that program. DownStreet either coordinates or directly provides supportive services to the folks who are living in our housing. That's designed to help people stay stably housed, to meet their basic needs, and then also to access community resources. And finally, we do whatever it takes to ensure or increase the affordable housing in the communities where we serve. This looks like a lot of different things. A couple of quick examples. We help private landlords and community organizations create their own affordable housing. We also work with different community partners. For instance, we've done a lot of work recently with the Central Vermont Refugee Action Network, creating homes specific to refugees and asylum seekers. And this last year, we set up a homeless services hotel in Barrie. So just a full range of things that support affordable housing in the communities where we work. And I'm giving you a little more detail than I might ordinarily because I just want to note that all of this is possible only because of the ongoing investment in VHCb over the last thirty nine years. Every single thing that I've talked about has VHCb funding in it. And so I think we all know that to ensure that the housing needs across the state are met, that we need the full continuum of housing. This is everything from emergency shelter to market based homeownership. But for an increasing number of our low and moderate income Vermonters, meeting their housing needs requires access to the range of permanently affordable homes that are funded by the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board. And so this afternoon, I want to highlight two examples of what I think are unique and forward thinking investments that VHCb has made, maybe some investments that I don't always associate or didn't associate with VHCb when I was first learning about them. And these are investments that recognize that housing not simply is real estate, but as infrastructure for health, for dignity, and for community stability. These are the projects that pair permanently affordable homes with coordinated services and on-site supports and intentional design so that people with higher needs can live independently and safely in their communities. BHCB's willingness to invest in these models has allowed us to move beyond the question of where will someone live, to the deeper question of what does someone need to be successful in housing. So I've got two examples. There are dozens across the state. So the first one is Downstreet's recovery residence. So in 2023, Downstreet opened a foundation house. This is a recovery residence where moms can receive recovery supports without being separated from their kiddos. Women and women with minor children make up roughly half of the Vermonters who are in recovery or in treatment. At the time that this program was received, there was only one recovery residence that they could access in the state. So Downstreet worked with Vermont for Recovery, or V4, as we develop housing, V4 provides recovery supports, to design a building and a program. Downstreet financed and developed the physical project, which includes flexible space for up to six households, depending on the size of those households, two discrete apartments, and then also a safety net residence. And that safety net residence is particularly important and somewhat unique, but it ensures it's at a separate location, that if someone relapses, they have a place to go, that they're not turned out of the recovery residence. And that means that if someone relapses, we can get them that support that they need more quickly than we might if we were trying to hold on to them in the recovery residence. The project is now master leased, it's operated by V4. So this next information I really can't take credit for, but I love these stories. So 2025, we had 21 households that are called Foundation Household. The average stay was about six months. And 78% of those households moved on to permanent housing. And when you think about how hard recovery is, that's a really impressive number. And these numbers, they matter. But what stays with me are the stories. And there's kind of a rhythm to them. Often it's a mom. She's leaving a recovery setting somewhere else, and treatment beds have time limited supports. And she's got nowhere else safe to go. And I think we can all imagine what that would feel like to be exiting recovery. You're trying to maintain recovery. You've fought so hard to get where you are and how impossible or how difficult that would be if your next step was to experience homelessness. So you've got these women, they've done this really hard work, extraordinary commitment, great support that they need from BIVOR, from other service providers, from community based service providers. And it takes a stable place to live, and that's what this recovery residence is providing. And so I hear those stories. I hear those stories about getting jobs, and you hear the enthusiasm behind that. It's like, I was employee of the month this month, and it was a unanimous vote. People really proud of what they're accomplishing. And I hear about the supervised visits with children that over time turns into family reunification. It's like you're hearing about the steps and how meaningful and how proud women are of the work that they're doing. And my favorite part, and this is probably no surprise to anybody, is what comes next. And this is people transitioning into permanent housing with tools in hand and a stable foundation. And this fall, I was especially moved to hear about a mom and her two kids who moved from Foundation House to Fox Run. I know you've seen it. It's there in your community. This is down the street's beautiful, new affordable housing community in Berlin. It's walking distance to schools, to shopping, to jobs. And that move wasn't just a change of address for that family. It's the next chapter in a recovery story that began with having a safe place to be. And these outcomes didn't happen by accident. They were possible because VHCb stepped in at the very beginning. They funded the feasibility work when this was still just an idea, And they stood behind the project as a primary funder to bring it to life. So without that early vote of confidence and sustained investment, Foundation House simply would not exist, and neither were the second chances that it's now making possible. And so I have one more example that I'd like to share. This is about DownStreet's work with adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities and their caregivers, and how this reflects our commitment to creating safe, stable, and dignified housing opportunities for a range of people with support needs, or people with a range of support needs. So we partner with our designated agencies. This is Upper Valley Services and Washington County Mental Health Services. And we're together developing housing models that work for this group of people. So at Marsh House in Waterbury, this is a project that's currently under construction. And then at Stevens Branch Apartments in Berry, which is going to start construction this summer, We're incorporating a replicable cluster model within our larger multifamily communities. So in this model, we're setting aside three units for adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities who can manage their own apartments, but they need additional support to live independently. So there's an on-site support services space that's staffed by a designated agency, and they can provide up to 20 fourseven supports, depending on the needs of these individuals. That space also serves as a hub for life skills training, for shared meals, and community connection. And then by clustering the units within a broader development, residents are living independently in typical apartment homes in really great locations while sharing staffing resources efficiently because you can have one person serving all three at the same time and just receiving the supports that help them remain stable and independent in housing. And then we have another project. It's Hames Best in Randolph. And this is a project that's being developed by Down Street, but Upper Valley Services is going to own and operate it. It will open this spring. It's on an old lilac farm with just, I think there's 60 different varieties of lilacs, beautiful and amazing. And it includes a single family home and accessory dwelling unit. So a little bit different than our multifamily housing, but we'll have three individuals living there with a single individual who is paid to also live there and provide supports. And so both models balance independence with community and care. They demonstrate that with the right partnerships, we can create housing that is affordable and responsive to the needs of Vermonters who require additional supports to thrive. And again, this work would not be at all possible without VHCb's willingness to invest in supportive housing models that integrate affordability and services. And then I just want to close by saying that most states don't have an equivalent to VHCb. I came from Oregon. I worked in New York. I geeked out over VHCb when I came to Vermont. This organization that balances the needs of affordable housing, conservation, farmland and forest viability, and historic preservation. And most states aren't as beautiful or as healthy as Vermont. A

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: lot

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: of states don't invest their housing dollars in permanent affordability, which means they will continue to struggle with the end of affordability periods. And they'll continue to struggle with skyrocketing home prices. So the people of Vermont have the foresight to establish VHCb to protect and advance what we value most, and we all benefit when it's fully funded. And full funding means that Down Street and organizations like ours can create more homes and strengthen entire communities. It means housing people experiencing homelessness, older adults, and people with disabilities in safe and stable environments. It means supporting recovery residents, stabilizing families, and ensuring that essential workers can afford to live in the communities where they work. When we invest at this level, we are not just building housing. We are creating the conditions for people and communities to thrive. Full funding for Vermont Housing and Conservation Board supports healthy people and a healthy Vermont. I know you have really tough decisions to make this legislative session, and I just hope the committee will continue the legacy of foresight and leadership by supporting the full statutory funding this year. Thank you

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: very much. Thank you. We

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: have time for questions. I would love to answer that. And

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: then if you would, please, so that we have it for other people to read if they do not go online, would you submit your comments? That wonderful. Would I'm curious, if Down Street develops the housing, is there ever a time when you make a decision to once something is sort of up and running and it has a history and there's a way for it to be sustainable, is the ownership ever transferred to a community service provider? Very rarely. If DownStreet develop the housing,

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: we tend to keep it in our portfolio. That is our area of expertise. We own and operate housing. What we are doing more of is the master lease model. So that's the Vermont for Recovery, where our responsibility for that site at this point is capital needs and ongoing operations at the capital level. They take care of the building. They take care of the day to day. And that model seems to work very well. Owning property is a huge risk, and owning aging property is a huge risk. It is one I am somewhat

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: sad to

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: say we are experts in. And passing that on to a community agency that doesn't have that same expertise might not be a great service.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Uh-huh. Thank you. Other questions for people? Alright.

[Brenda Steady (Member)]: I have Okay. Another Is there money in the budget? Did she not oh, is there money in the FY '27 budget already?

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: So the the governor's full has included the full statutory investment at $37,600,000. We need a lot of housing, so more money is definitely appreciated.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yes, that piece is included. It is included. Yes. Could you describe the arrangement that you have with

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: a supportive service provider? Let's just take Upper Valley Services as an example. Do you guys enter into an MOU? What's the arrangement? Aportfolio services is a great example, in part because I had never done housing for folks with intellectual and developmental disabilities. It hadn't been on my radar. And members of their organization came and said, hey, we need housing. And they had an idea, and that idea wasn't going to work. But I said, let's keep talking. We can get somewhere. So the fact that we've gotten where we have in such a very short time I've only been with Down Street for three and onetwo years is really very cool. So yes, what we've done is we've designed together what this program is going to look like from the get go. So we're building multifamily housing. That's what DownStreet does all the time. It's very cool that we can have units that just kind of fit within that model. And we decided on the number of three that works best with a single service provider. And then we enter into an MOU or a memorandum of understanding that makes it clear what DownStreet is going to provide. We're going provide the units. We're going to provide the space for the staffing. And then it outlines the services that Upper Valley Services will provide. And it gets into some pretty detailed pieces, like when there's a vacant unit, how they're going to make referrals. When we have a problem, who do we call? And we have used that model for a number of years very successfully.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. Any other questions from committee members? Thank you, Angie. Really appreciate it.

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: Thank you so much for having me.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Looking forward to seeing Marsh House open. This spring. Do you know if the rental subsidy question has been answered or not?

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: I will know on March 8, it has an inclination of

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: positive things. Okay, fingers crossed. Okay, good afternoon. Good afternoon. And we do have your presentation on our website. Well, have Sharon's left hand on. Yes.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Okay.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Good afternoon. Thank

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: you. Thank you, Beth. Okay. Can see you. We're definitely seeing it.

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: Okay. You're seeing my my presentation.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: No. We're seeing your face. Okay. We will turn

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: I don't wanna see that.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: We can see your presentation on our on our screens. Yep.

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: There it is. Okay. There we are.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Getting there. Okay. No. Well Why don't you just see it so you can see it? We can look it up on our I have it right in touch now. I hope we got IT help from all over the place.

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: Well, afternoon. I'm Patrick Chittenden. I'm the executive director of Rural Edge. We serve the Northeast Kingdom Of Vermont, much like Down Street. We've been in existence for about forty years. We have a portfolio of about a thousand units. So understanding the Northeast Kingdom, it is about 2,000 square miles with about 60,000 residents. So we serve a very rural area. We too have a home ownership center and offer supportive services for residents, both through the Sash program and through our Residence Services Division. Thanks so much, So our mission is to strengthen Northeast Kingdom communities, one home at a time. We're about 40 years old. We began as a Gilman Housing Trust. And it's interesting we talk about perpetually affordable housing and the permanent restrictions of the HUB. Our first project was in Gillman, it was Gillman Senior. We still own and operate it forty years. It's got a long waiting list in that metropolis of Gillman. And Sash is there. It provides an important resource for that rural community and that is really what VHGB funding has allowed us to do across the Northeast Kingdom. As you can see, really small communities, buildings that exist in every community, but that's where we are because that's where people are and that's where the needs are. We're a little unique in that the Northeast Kingdom doesn't have a designated agency serving folks experiencing homelessness. So we work really closely with our partners at Northeast Kingdom Community Action and Northeast Kingdom Human Services to address those needs. So within our 1,000 or so units, forty three percent of the households who occupy them moved in from experiencing homelessness. So with that, that creates a huge role for staff to provide support, to keep people housed. 70% of our residents have household incomes less than 20% annually. And we're a little unique in that about 85% of our units have rental subsidy, either project based or with tenants. So I know that is a big concern, rental subsidy, and our portfolio is so dependent upon that. We have a really strong partnership with Net Net and really stood up in record time about four months, two years ago, the first emergency shelter in the Northeast Kingdom. There simply wasn't one. There was a desperate need. And we found a property that had the potential to work. And in four months, we were able to acquire it, get funding from VHCb, do the renovations. It was a raised ranch house and it had been added on to with a Taekwondo studio and that was converted to a church and the church was leaving. So, we had a big space.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It's

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: better, it was adjacent to a property that we had already owned and also adjacent to Dog Mountain. So as we talk about housing and conservation, there's public access and recreation, even though it wasn't planned. But in four months, because of VHCb's support, we were able to get that add accessibility and set it up as a 17 bed shelter had-

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: The change in the zoning laws from the legislature.

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: We have a creative BRB guest said, who we don't care what they've said, but we'll make it work. Appreciate the change because we certainly use that to support it, but that has been a great success. In making that commitment, VHCB acknowledged we were going to learn a whole lot as we set up this shelter. And they provided us with additional feasibility funding to take what we learned to adapt that shelter. So at this point, we are now under contract for a former moose lodge, about 500 feet from the shelter to convert that into a 40 bed shelter and adapt the current shelter into a five family shelter. So really have been able to prove that this resource was needed and that it was supported and it could exist in the community seamlessly. We've had local businesses, restaurants step in and provide job training with the residents so that many folks have moved on. And so when we talk about folks moving on and the ability to see success, it's about putting the pieces together. So, this picture, we have Samantha Carr and Tim Kitter. And they spoke at the opening of the shelter at Moose River. They had been married and had separated and had substance abuse issues and had struggled. Both were unhoused and found their way separately into the shelter at Moose River. And there they stayed for about six months. And they got the services they need both from Neckestadt, Northeast Kingdom Human Services is only about two doors away and they are on-site every day. And they were really able to transform their lives and they were willing to share that story, speaking so passionately at the ribbon cutting about the impact, but continuing to spread that word about what has happened. We also administer the VHIP program and we understand that the goal of that is to house folks moving from homelessness, but we're allegedly thought it was really important to make that happen. So we administer our own rental assistance program with a HOP grant to make sure that those units are occupied. So Tim and Samantha moved into a VHIP unit and were able to really see stability. They had a relationship with their neighbor who actually had some health issues, And we were able to transfer them to another VHIP unit that was accessible so they could become caregivers for that neighbor. Over over a year, Samantha has had five different jobs each time increasing the number of hours and her responsibilities and her income. And we've seen their rental assistance from us go down to the point where in January they received their last rental assistance at $128 a month. Now we're really excited that they've seen success. And Samantha works at Domino's where she's a manager and is so appreciative. Tim sees me on the street and I get the warmest welcome. If you really want some interesting listening, he's released his own album and has all sorts of great songs about his experience in St. Johnsbury, which you can find under his name. But we needed that VHCB funding for the shelter for them to realize that. And while they're in a VHIP unit, that's great, but that's a five year affordability period. And so my worry is, while they're able to afford rent now, what happens when that rent goes up? And so that takes me back to VHCB and the importance. Our 1,000 units all have permanent rental rent restrictions. They're going to be affordable on and on and on forever. And so we've had residents who've been with us in some of our elderly developments. We've had folks who have been there since the buildings have opened for twenty five years, for twenty six years, because we provide resident services, because SASH is there, they're able to stay there and they know they can do that in security. So that is my concern for Tim and Samantha is that, and we have encouraged them to get on our waiting list so that they can find a unit that is permanently affordable. But that is what makes VHCb so unique in that it enables these projects. It enables VHCb to step in and say, yeah, you've got an immediate need. Yeah, you know, you're going to learn some things when you set this shelter up really quickly. We're going to give you money to investigate it further. And yes, we funded the expansion because it's such an important resource. And as you can see from our portfolio with forty three percent of folks who've moved in from homelessness, people are finding stability in the Northeast Kingdom. And it's so important. So to echo that ask, what do we need? We need consistent funding. VHCV is there for us. We've been asked to deliver more units and we've got a pipeline of projects that rely on that. So please let us do the work. Angie talked so great about, we create housing, we operate housing and we do really well partnering with others to see success and stability and healthy lifestyles. But we need that constant consistent funding, the ability to support the technical assistance that they provide. And so we really urge the governor's recommended full base funding for VHDB at $37,600,000

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you, Patrick. And thanks so much for including the story that you did of the couple and then the third person who joined their household and their evolution of finding their way back to each other and back to, something more stable. And, those are the things that, to be honest, kind of keep us going here as well. So it's really helpful to hear them. So thank you. Thank you. And it sounds like you have, like Angie talked about, wherever she went, That you have good working relationships with the other community partners like Northeast Kingdom Community Action, Northeast Kingdom Human Services, other providers in the area, it sounds like.

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: So with NECA, our property management staff meet with their housing staff on a biweekly basis. Our home ownership center staff, because they have VHIP units who meet with their housing staff on a weekly basis, biweekly basis, and I meet with the executive director on a biweekly basis as well. So, we have constant communication and include each other. We've actually got a conference call at 03:45 today. So, it is a regular presence and coordination. Likewise, with Northeast Kingdom Human Services, I actually sit on their board and we look at opportunities to partner. So we talk about some of the master leases. Northeast Kingdom Human Services has master leases for properties that we have. NECA has master leases for other properties that we have. And it does, as Angie says, allows us to do the job of operating the housing so that they can provide the important work that

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: they do to provide the It important really is great to see the collaboration among community partners out there. And like you've both said, to focus on what your expertise is and enables the community partner to focus on what their expertise is, which is in, you know, more of the supportive services, the mental health services, the disability services, the employment services, whatever it might be. So it takes a bit of worry and stress also sort of out of that equation, because, you know, it's a lot, you know, putting a project like the ones that you and Angie have both talked about is a lot. I mean, it takes a lot of different pulling from lots of different sources essentially in order to make it work. And so thank you. Thank you for really showing us examples of how that can really happen and make change in the Northeast Kingdom. Thank you. Any males have any other questions or comments? Thank you, Patrick. We really appreciate it. And thank you to all the other partners here with the coalition. Patrick mentioned it around VHIP. While it has provided, you know, access at a low cost to, you know, lots more units out there, I think we're all a little anxious about what happens now because some of those early ones that are now at the five year mark, and, you know, what's gonna happen? I mean, you know, that's really the stressor at this point in time. So we'll, you know, we'll see. We'll see if our investment has paid off in the long term. So thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you, everyone. Okay, committee members, we're going to now move back to six sixty, which we have a new draft on our webpage. Draft 5.1. Okay, whenever you're ready Katie, to pull it off this line.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: Good afternoon. Katie Metzellas, Legislative Council. Here is h six sixty draft 5.1. It's now broken up with readers heading title because we added appropriations from the prevention substance abuse prevention fund. So this first section is all the opioid abatement language. Subdivision one is the appropriations. I didn't do a good job of removing the last sections highlighting, so you'll see that the highlighting is left over from last draft. But in subdivision 2B and 3B, we've removed reference to a particular fiscal year. So now 2B reads, it is the intent of the General Assembly that recovery residents is be funded annually by the Opioid Abatement Special Fund unless and until the Special Fund does not have sufficient monies to fund this expenditure. And the same language is in 3B.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So I wanted to just make committee members aware that I had asked the health department if they had additional information around this, because there seemed to be a disconnect between the syringe service providers and the department and the information that you know, so we were hearing from both sides, essentially. And so one of the things to remind people is that this isn't the only place where there's an appropriation for syringe services. It's also included in the budget. This is the balance, if you will, or yeah. Don't get the balance because it was in the budget originally. So the department I'm gonna paraphrase here, the department felt between that money and then what they had from FY 'twenty five was gonna be sufficient carry forward. So I said I would let committee members know that. I said, It's not what we're hearing from the syringe service providers. And I urged them to come together and work that out. And if it needs to be some change, that it would happen downstairs in appropriations. So I just wanted to make sure that I shared that with people.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: No changes in Subdivision 4 since you last seen it or 5. Subdivision 6, they broke into two subsections. So now we have 900,000 Department of Health for the creation of new recovery residents beds. Subdivision 2 is 300,000 to the Department of Health for the creation tier three. Of new recovery residents beds for level three or above, in Brattleboro, Middlebury, Addison, Randolph, Chester, St. Albans, and any other region of the state? Is that

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I think the level three is supposed to go with the 900,000. Okay. I'm checking with Eric. Yep. That's supposed to go with the thousand. 9 The level three. That's the higher level, right? Level three, yeah. Or level three, because

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: breakout of town stays with the 300,000. So should it

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: say level three or higher, Eric?

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Yeah, for the 900,000, yes.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Yes, as it says here,

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: for level three or above, yeah. Okay. How does that look? 900,000

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: to the Department of Health for the creation of new recovery resident beds for level three or above, and 300,000 to the Department of Health for the creation of new recovery resident beds. Oh, no. We don't want this.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Oh, we do want them to be we do want them to be We want it up here. No. Want no.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Wasn't in the original language under 14. Doesn't mean we don't want it. But

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It's definitely in the 901. Yes. It's 50 desk.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: And do would you like it, Anne B?

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I'm I'm consulting with a one second. Well, 900,000,

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: level three or higher, the 300,000.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Those be NARs? It's still

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: also be NARs. Yes. Yeah.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: That's what I thought. Yes. Because in our recovery residence bill a couple of years ago, we wanted them all to be NAR certified. But no level three or above reference. Right.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: 300,000 to the Department of Health for the creation of new NAR recovery resident beds in Brattleboro, Middlebury, Addison Randolph, Chester, St. Albans or any other identified region of the state.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: But it should be a creation of new NAR recovery.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: She wrote that. Oh, I did. Sorry. I didn't hear it.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Sorry. Oh, it is. Yeah.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yeah. That

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: looked great.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: It'd be NAR certified.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I was wondering about that. It's a certification process.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Most B4 residents would be taught residents are, if they're not a certification. So

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: it should say certification at level three or above, and then down below certification. Yeah. Right. That okay? Yep.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: Seven, eight and nine have not changed since we've last seen the draft. Sections two, three and four, which is the reversion, has not changed since we've last seen the draft. Section five has changed. First, you've added the Health Equity Advisory Commission as an entity that the opioid advisory committee must consult with. And then this sentence has changed a bit. Each ongoing funding proposal considered by the advisory council shall include a sustainability plan from the applicant to ensure consideration of future expenses and available resources apart from the opioid abatement special fund.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yeah,

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: just wanted to get some clarity on something. So the Opioid Advisory Committee is going to be asked to consult with other advisory permissions to obtain or produce what? Just unclear of.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: Can you pull up can you pull up that section of law? Yeah, this is the section right here. Already an existing law, the advisory committee shall demonstrate consultation with individuals with direct lived experience of opioid use disorder, frontline support professionals, substance misuse oversight, prevention and advisory council, and other stakeholders. Then you're adding the What health was that?

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I'm sorry.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: I cut you off, Katie. The purpose is to identify spending priorities as related to opioid use disorder prevention, intervention, treatment, recovery services and harm reduction strategies for the purpose of providing recommendations to the governor, BDH, General Assembly, and prioritizing use of the special fund. And then can

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: you pull up the statute for the Health Equity Advisory? Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you wanted this section. Yes, I can do that. So people can see what the purpose of that group is. We haven't really talked about it here in this committee. Right. So I think, Eric, your question is like, how does an advisory commission consult with an advisory commission kind of?

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Yeah, pretty much where, yeah, because from what's already up there is what we kind of already do and that's through the proposals and things like that. And when we get together and decide how we want to go address it now.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Yeah, so this would just mean letting that council or commission, whatever it is, group say, we're looking at these, you have any thoughts? You have any input?

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Got it. Yeah. Okay. Well, I want people to see what it is. Right.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: Can you read it? Yeah. There's created the Health Equity Advisory Commission to promote health equity and eradicate health disparities among Vermonters, including particularly those who are Black, Indigenous and persons of color, individuals who are LGBTQ and individuals with disabilities. Advisory Commission shall amplify the voices of impacted communities regarding decisions made by the state to impact health equity, whether in the provision of health care services or as the result of social determinants of health. The Advisory Commission shall also provide strategic guidance on the development of the Office of Health Equity, including recommendations on the structure, responsibilities and jurisdiction of such an office. Then there's a list of members. I don't know if you want me to go

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: through that. No, you don't need to.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It's a lot of people. Wow. That down was before they on the number of people on commissions and committees.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: There's the duties. The advisory committee will get in touch with the advisory committee to set up a time to address the advisory committee.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Or just ask for opinions?

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Ask report back on do you have any thoughts?

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: It's already doing it with another advisory council.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: And they're pretty used to having that work.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It's their role.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: All review it and they'll provide you with concerns

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: or things

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: that have to take into account as you make your decisions.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Since we aren't talking about health services and the appropriate funds, I think that's important. Okay.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: So that's it for Section five. Section six, you had some changes. The Opioid Settlement Advisory Committee shall not accept new funding proposals from the Opioid Abatement Special Fund for fiscal year twenty eight, unless a proposal was previously identified in statute as intended for annual funding. It instead shall review outcomes of programs and initiatives previously funded through the Opioid Abatement Special Fund to assess effectiveness and long term sustainability where applicable.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Not hearing any dissension. Okay. It's pretty funny. And

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: now we're changing gears. So instead of the opioid abatement Special Fund, we're now looking at appropriations from the Substance Misuse Prevention Special Fund. So in fiscal year twenty seven, the following money shall be appropriated from the Substance Misuse Prevention Special Fund. 288,935 to the Department of Health for distribution to elevate youth services to support the creation of a low barrier drop in teen center and variant to provide food activities, positive adult role models, peer counselors, prevention and recovery programming and direct connection to treatments. Top of page eight, a 124,999 to the Department of Health for distribution to the Greater Falls Connection to the Greater Falls Connections to enhance youth engagement and education and to expand prevention focused staffing and youth programming space in response to increasing community need. Subdivision

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: 3200000

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: to the the Department of Health for Distribution to Interaction Friends for Change to increase access, community based therapy, housing crisis, medical recovery and employment supports for youth in Windham County. And lastly, 26,697 to the Department of Health for distribution to Winooski Partnership for Prevention to provide funding for staff time and stipends for partners to deliver medicine, safety, education in elementary aged youth during school and family engagement.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So can I just ask a question? Is this reference to ATBSA section forty eight twelve? That's the reference to the excise tax from the cannabis

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: tax special fund is established.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It is funded by I'm talking about the money that comes in for prevention from the cannabis excise tax. That's not what this well, I don't know if it That's that's what I don't know. I don't know if look. Does it reference it sets up the funds. Let me check.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: K. So you have the fund is established, managed by the Department of Health in accordance with the governing language for special funds. 30% comes from cannabis. Yep. Not to exceed 10,000,000. Okay. That's what I I just wanna make sure it was the same fund that came

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: in. Okay. Good. Yeah. All good. Anybody else have any other questions?

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: I did want you to see that I updated the name of the bill because mhmm. Okay.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And will this be version 6.1, Katie, or 5.2 or what? Six. Does anybody have any questions?

[Daniel Noyes (Clerk)]: Just repeating, 6.1, you said? 6.1.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. I would entertain a motion to approve 6.1. It's drafted. You wanna move? I'll make a motion to approve Version 6.1 of. Version 6.1 of. Age six sixty. Right here. Of.

[Brenda Steady (Member)]: It's right in front me. Six sixty. Okay. Oh my god, wait a second.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: No. K. Is there any discussion? Okay. Clerk will

[Daniel Noyes (Clerk)]: call the roll. Representative Bishop? Yes. Representative Cola? Yes. Representative Donahue? Yes. Representative Esme Estes? Yes. Representative Garofano? Yes. Representative McGill? Representative McGill? Yes. Yes. Representative Nelson? Representative Representative Noyes? Yes. Representative Steady? Yes. Representative Wood? Yes. Excellent.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: 100.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Brenda, did you see my

[Brenda Steady (Member)]: I did. Don't know if I'm confident enough.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Can you help? Yeah.

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: We'll help.

[Brenda Steady (Member)]: You think so?

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: You know, when all else fails, you've seen other people do it right on the floor.

[Brenda Steady (Member)]: I know, that's what I'm saying.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Don't think it's like, but I'm saying spell. The unanimous spell. Right.

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: And and if there's any question, you just that you're not sure or you're nervous, you just say, wanna yield to to the member. I'll

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: try it.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: You can do it. You can. I don't know. I don't think I have enough problems, but I'll try.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Lamoille is the language I use.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yeah. He can hit me the back of my head. Right. Exactly. And register. Okay.

[Brenda Steady (Member)]: He's gonna give me his yes.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Like a template. Representative Steady will report the bill on the floor. Thank you, Representative Steady. I never thought I would do this, but okay. You can do it.

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: I don't

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: know, we'll see.

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: Part of

[Katie Metzellas (Legislative Counsel)]: the job,

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: right? It's part of

[Angie Harbin (Executive Director, Downstreet Housing & Community Development)]: the I just didn't care. Okay.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you, Katie. Okay. Committee members, has everybody sent their recommendations to Lori for people to invite? I have two groups that didn't. That That That's not me. Yeah, Laureate will hand out the ones we announced for a committee.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Oh

[Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: she did not. Alright.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yeah, that's a story. Okay, so before you leave today, you have to get it to Laurie. You're a star people. You just gotta get the names. Yeah. Like, Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I know, like,

[Daniel Noyes (Clerk)]: ten minutes.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Oh, good. I'm writing you something for the slides. Okay. We're still on live. Just so people know that. Oh, that's alright. I'm just letting you know. I'm just gonna £2,000. Just to summarize what Yeah. Yeah. She can meet it.

[Patrick Chittenden (Executive Director, Rural Edge)]: Talking to the group.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yeah. To summarize what we'll be doing next week. Because after we go off, you can continue on your budget work or constituent work, but we won't be having Zoom time or YouTube time. Gail, So, could I ask you to Yeah.

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Yeah. I'm sorry. That's on me. That's on me. So

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: if we could, one, make sure you get your recommendations to Laurie sooner rather than later because Monday's a holiday and state employees will not be working, and it always causes a backup and delay. So she needs to get those out today, on Monday. Second, we'll be continuing markup of our committee bill that we have pending, and we will be doing the budget fifteen minute snapshots with people next week. By the end of the week, we'll have our preliminary recommendations being shared by the teams with the group. You'll get feedback from the group or questions, and then we'll be working on that. And don't forget to use the format that I sent to you sometime last weekend, I think. We are also going to be having a joint hearing with House Education, House Ways and Means, and House Human Services on the Pre K report. So we're going to be starting to delve into Pre K next week as well, because we need to make a recommendation for the education bill. This is in follow-up. This is something that was required as a result of act 73. So we need to make sure we do our part. So there was a whole study done by joint fiscal office over the summer and fall, and they have now issued a report, which is posted on their website or will be. Are you gonna wait till till next week to do it? Because they didn't they didn't put it under our report section. No. Yeah. I can find it. That would be good just because I think did I send you a copy of it from Emily Byrne? I got an email from Emily Byrne where they're You're gonna forward that to me. I didn't do that yet. Okay. I will. I will do that. You don't need to go looking. So that's that's good for next week. Okay?

[Eric Maguire (Member)]: Where would that be posted when available? I just

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: What I'm gonna do right now, it'll be posted on the day that we have that joint hearing, which is what day? Friday. Friday. But I will send it out to all members so you can have it in advance. Thank you. Thank you. Okay? Are there any questions, any comments, any whatevers about the week, the day, what we're doing? Maybe? I was just wondering on the APS bill. Yes, APS bill, we're going take that up the following week, because You're

[Daniel Noyes (Clerk)]: trying to bore everything, that should have it together.

[Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay, Katie is not gonna be here for Thursday and Friday that week, so it's a perfect time to get Jen, hopefully. Okay, and remember, any language that you have, to get to Katie by next Monday. I feel like I'm being looked at with blank faces, except for Esme. Thank you. If you have any language or any modifications to language that was being proposed by the administration, remember I sent you the links to that? You have to look at what the administration has proposed to us, not just about the numbers, because sometimes there's a lot of stuff in the language. So you will want to be careful to read the language for your sections and anything else you're interested in. Have anything else? Anybody else have anything else? Okay. So you can, continue on your budget work, and we'll