Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. Welcome this morning to the House Human Services Committee. This morning, we are going to be taking up our second department budget from the Agency of Human Services, the Department for Children and Families. And we have the interim commissioner here, Sandy Hoffman, and Megan Sneeden, the CFO. So welcome. You can there's a spare chair there. October is when we sent the

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: memo. I'm not I'm just

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: saying what the next day is.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: I'm not taking this side to speculate on

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: people. And Okay. Nolan, before you, you know, if you run off someplace, I need to talk to you.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: I'm going to be getting called in a moment to go down the road.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Well, know that's what it's about.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Can we talk now? I'm gonna get the call.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Oh, okay. All right.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: After then.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: All right.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: That's all right. That's okay. Okay, welcome. I'm sorry. So, the floor is yours. We've already done introductions with you all, so you know who we are, and I think you know probably most everybody else in the room. So welcome, and we are happy to be sort of your you can use us as guinea pigs for your dry run before you get to appropriations. If you get your House Human Services, then you've done really well because I think they're probably easier in appropriations than we are. We ask a lot of in Townsend Human Services. And one of the things that I was just noticing, just flipping through your presentation, is I think you received a memo from the appropriations chair and vice chair back in October. I'm not sure. Were you there yet? I can't remember when you came on, Sandy, but Megan was certainly there around what we are expecting. And this doesn't exactly follow those instructions. And I'm just wondering if you have additional information that you're preparing and when that might be available if you are. Yes, everything that was in that memo is in the budget book that we

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: will be submitting. I will warn you, it is some light reading of about 160 pages. So you have that

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: to look forward to if you need help sleeping at night. Okay. It is a very exciting document and it explains all of our programs, things we've done. It's got the annual report in it too. So we're excited about it. It's been about twenty years since it's

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: been done. Yeah. So just kind of what we were noticing around not just your department, but all in all this, last many years, actually, we've just been looking at ups and downs. That really, we knew this year was going be a rough year. And so we wanted to really have a deeper understanding of the choices that you're making as a department and as that we're all making as the agency of human services, as well as things that you're looking to potentially reduce or eliminate, as well as those things that we're increasing in, particularly in some of the areas where, I'll be honest, we've had a hard time tracking, like secure residential for youth and juvenile justice, the whole sort of juvenile justice area. Childcare has been easier to follow, but again, we know we've had a lot of changes in the childcare area. And of course, OEO and economic services are always a perennial favorite. So when do you expect those will be coming? After we're done today. We were hoping

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: to get it before

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: we finish. Okay. Now we have to rest.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: So we'll get it for weekend reading.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Yes. Okay. It's going to be cold. You'll be able to

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: get done.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Sweater and a cup of tea. So DCF team. And it's actually more in-depth reading for DCF team, but it really is, I encourage all of our committee members to be looking at all of the departments, not dissimilar to what AHS did as a whole agency. So thank you for letting us know about what's to come. Appreciate it. And we really do understand that that was a lot of work to do that. But I think it will as we move through this budget process, it'll help us to be more on the same page around understanding exactly what the governor's budget does and what it doesn't do. So thank you.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: The floor is yours. Okay. So for the record, I'm Sandy Hoffman, interim commissioner. Megan Esmeaton, CTO. And do you want to go through the folks on, or only if we need to reach out

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: to them?

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: No, sure. I'd let them introduce themselves. Yeah.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Oh, should I

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: stop sharing that?

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: I don't know how to do that now.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Janet, can you introduce yourself? Could the folks online in Zoom land, could you introduce yourselves, please?

[Erica Radke (Deputy Commissioner, Family Services Division)]: Hello, everyone. I'm Erica Radke, Deputy Commissioner of the Family Services Division.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Lisa? Hi, everyone.

[Lisa Rivers (Director, Office of Child Support)]: My name is Lisa Rivers. I'm the Director of the Office of Child Support.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: And Janet McLaughlin is the Deputy Commissioner for the Child Development Division. Is that it? Is there anyone else on? Miranda will be joining us.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I'm going say, where's Miranda? She'll be here.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Me and Miranda will be here. It's cold weather weekend, so we have a lot going on.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: They have a lot going on, yeah.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Right. We talked about the budget book and the annual report. You'll be seeing that, and we're very excited about it. So that's a real in-depth look that you can The slides are also really meaty, and I'm going to go over them, but you can use them for reference and then go to the budget book to get a deeper dive into each of those subjects. The stuff that I don't get to on the slides, Megan will get to when she's going through the ups and downs, so you'll get the whole picture. So when we were preparing the budget this year, I think agency, AHS, the secretary was in already and talked to you about taking an agency wide approach. And you'll see that across all the budgets, that there was an executive leadership team we got together. We looked at all of the programs across the agency and made some hard decisions based on the fact that there has been wind down in federal funds and the state dollars aren't going as far as they have been. We knew we were going to have to make some hard cuts, and we developed some criteria, again, used a holistic approach, looked at the measures of successes, and then made those decisions. We'll talk about those. You'll see those in ours, and then you'll see it across the board. Then there's also the housing initiative that will be in next week to talk about. We're not going to spend a lot of time on that today because we're going to spend a lot of time on that next week. So I'll start with saying that DCF's mission is to foster the healthy development, safety, well-being and self sufficiency of Vermonters. We provide benefits, services and supports to about 200,000 Vermonters every year, including children, youth, families, older Vermonters and people with disabilities.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Can I just ask a question? How do you want people to ask questions? Do you want to go through a few slides and then take a pause? Or what's easiest for you?

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: How about if we do that because there are a lot of slides and then there's the ups and downs? If I don't get to it or if we move off, then Okay. Maybe we do Okay. Sounds good. Okay. So the changes in the state fiscal year base appropriation include a 4.7 increase to the SFY 20 six budget, 6.6% decrease to special fund, 14.3% increase to general fund, and then the comprehensive 31,400,000.0, 21.2 base and 10.21 time.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Actually reverse.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: So the I'm sorry, the base is 10.2.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Yes. And the one time

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. Is 21 So that's not what it says on your slide. Right, it needs to be corrected. Okay. And because this is on the public record, will you send us a corrected copy? Thank you.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Oh, that's not good. Slide number two. Okay, and then on the next slide, you'll see the state fiscal year '26, passed, proposed and recommended for '27.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And then the next one, these

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: are the major funding sources for DCF. Like I said, I'm kind of cruising through these so you can spend time with the ups and downs and asking the freshmen. Further breakdown of funding sources.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: When you say I'm sorry, I backed up. When you say proposed adjustment, are you meaning because BAA is still in flux, is that a proposed adjustment for '27, or does this take into consideration BAA or not?

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: It's not because BAA is one time. So this is the as passed for 'twenty six and then what we're proposing in

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: the For 'twenty seven. Okay, thank you. And can I just ask a clarifying question on the

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: next slide? Isn't CBDs a major oh, it says federal. Never mind. One

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: of the things that was in the requirements for our presentation was more information on federal funding sources. There's more details in the budget book, but it'll just give you some information on that. Okay. That's more, okay. Okay,

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: so the initiatives adjustments in state fiscal year '26, that's the FSD subsidized adoption and substitute care caseloads, the ESD reach up support services. So did you skip over a slide? That

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: one.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Did you do that one?

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: No. Think just brushed over it.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: But this

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: just shows you some of the high level of over the 10,000,000 and over 7,000,000 and how much which funding sources we draw on.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So you might wanna slow down I a little will. You guys have been living with it and we have not.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: And we figured we're going go into more detail after Megan will, but we can do that now.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: That's okay. Gives us a chance to think about the questions that we're going to ask when we get to the detail.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: That's why we're going fast

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: today. That was a very good strategy, Daniel. Alright. Yeah. Okay.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: We good with that one? Mhmm. Yes.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Okay. And then the caseloads, the economic services reach up, support services, GA personal needs and incidentals, aid for the agent blind and disabled in three squares, The pressures, the agreement reductions to address funding limitations in admin, FSD, CDD, GA, and reach out. The initiative is the Governor's Housing Initiative. Again, we'll talk about that next week. The Transportation Contract, you've heard about that. OEO Base HOP Agreement Growth and Baseline Funding for Extreme Cold Weather Shelters. And then the Pay Act and Benefit Adjustments, the Internal Service Fund, the PNMI inflation adjustment, and the child care special fund revenue adjustment.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: On the caseloads, Okay, I see it under pressure. Never mind. I was thinking about it under Sorry, I was thinking out loud about Child Development Division and the increase in the number of recipients of childcare financial assistance. So, I was thinking about that as caseload, you have it under pressure. I got it now. Okay, Thank you.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: And then the proposed one time appropriations is the temporary secure treatment facility funding and housing initiative. Oh, we have it right there. So looked at it so many times. Administration and economic services. Admin is composed of four sub budgets: the commissioner's office, the business office, ESD admin, and IT costs. ESD admin includes salaries for all ESD staff and operating funds, as well as an assortment of grants, and they're mostly SNAP related. And these specifics and highlights, the summary, we're going to go through that with the ups and downs. So I have

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: a question, because it seems like every department has a little bit of a different take on who they include in admin. And I'm just wondering, is there is there overall like, some of the the consistent ones are the, you know, the business office, commissioner's office, legal, some, you know, attorney generals. I see ESD. I'm just curious why they're in admin. Just the ESD as admin or the old

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: It's all of ESD's personal services and operating. I think it's historical. There's been changes with what constitutes departments over time, and ESD has just been in our admin appropriation. ESD's appropriations are broken out a little bit differently than the other divisions, and it goes back a long time. So I don't know if

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I have an exact answer to that, but they have separate appropes for each of their programmatic budgets, whereas FSD has just the two, just secure residential and FSD. CD has just one. I might encourage some discussion around AHS, around what should be included in admin or what is different. Because from sitting on this side, I would look at ESD and consider that to be a you know, it's a divisional budget. I would consider that to be something that would go there. But especially since it's only ESD, you know, some some folks put all state salaries in admin. Just like Dale like Dale, everybody's there. So it seems like there should be some consistent way to define it because otherwise, we're trying to look across departments in state government. We don't have a consistent definition, it doesn't seem, of what should be an admin. And maybe that's for Commissioner Gresham. I don't know. But okay, thank you for that explanation, Bill.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: And then the next slide, the Family Services Division. The Family Services Division works in partnership with families, communities and others to make sure children and youth are safe from abuse, their basic needs are met, and youth are free from delinquent behavior. They also ensure families are supported to achieve these goals. Those highlights, again, referenced for you, but we'll get into more detail when we go through it. Then there is a graph for FSD sub care and sub adoption caseload trends. I think you asked about that in BJA. There it is. Then you have the subsidized adoptions caseload trends. And those are both going the directions we want them to go. In the Child Development Division, the CDD improves the well-being children by developing and administering a continuum of high quality, comprehensive child development and family support services that promote health and well-being, school readiness, and foundations for lifelong success. Then you have the average number of children enrolled in CCFAT by age group. The next graph.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Okay.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I'm just trying to figure out, because we obviously have questions about or want to know more about some of these things, and I'm not sure.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: I would definitely ask you to hold the questions on this because Janet is not here right now. She's on, but she's doing this.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Okay. So

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: on those two, CDD ones, you could hold off. That'd be great.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I'll try.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: And then the Office of Child Support, OCS improves children's economic security by establishing, enforcing, and modifying child support orders for children who do not live with both parents, and collecting, recording, and distributing child support payments through the OCS registry. Aid to the Agents Blind and Disabled This program provides a financial supplement to recipients of federal SSI who are 65, disabled or blind, and do not have sufficient income to provide a reasonable subsistence needed for their well-being, as defined in VSCA 33, Chapter 13. It also funds the Essential Person Program by providing cash assistance to household members whose care is essential to an aged disabled person in the home. Do

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: you do a cross check at all with the Department of Disabilities Aging and Independent Living to see if any of these people are also on choices for care? Or maybe some of these people should have because they probably could get a more comprehensive set of services at choices for care. What's the

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: That's taking the holistic approach across the agency. We had a lot of discussions about that, about which programs are meeting the needs of, and are there redundancies? Can we create better efficiencies and reduce the redundancies? So there was a lot of conversation about that.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So was the answer yes or no? Are there people who could, I'll get it in the book, okay? But it seems as though when I look at the definition of this, it's honestly pretty comparable to the definition of people requiring long term care in choices for care. And so I'm just trying to figure out if there's a, like you just said, more efficient, more helpful way to provide these services. And maybe this is it. Just am curious to know whether there's been an actual look and a comparison of the needs of these folks. Are there any case management services for these folks? Do they have caseworkers that refer them potentially to Choices for Care as their needs get greater? That kind of thing. Okay. Can you hold off on that question and we'll ask. Who is the contact for that? And she's Thank not on right you. Okay, and Janet is on now.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Okay, great.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So can we go back for a minute before you go forward? For Janet's questions? Janet's questions. Slide 14. Both the 14 Hi and Janet, thank you for letting us know that you're available. One, I'm glad to see what we're seeing, which is the intent of the childcare financial assistance program was to radically increase the availability of childcare. And I think that we'll probably have you in to do a whole thing as we undertake the pre K discussion and the intersection with childcare and of course the childcare educators licensing aspects, but could you just give us a little snapshot of the changes that have occurred in the overall program. I look at that slide on 14, you look at the percentages and the percentages are staying relatively constant. The numbers are increasing, but the percentages are staying relatively constant, which is that something that you were expecting? And I know that we've tried to increase infant and toddler capacity, and I'm just curious about infant and toddler in particular at this point in time.

[Lisa Rivers (Director, Office of Child Support)]: Yeah, so hi everybody, Jana McLaughlin, Deputy Commissioner in DCF overseeing the Child Development Division. And I apologize, I had a doctor's office call me right as I was being asked to introduce myself and I made a choice. Great choice.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Thank

[Janet McLaughlin (Deputy Commissioner, Child Development Division)]: you. So yes, we know that for childcare financial assistance, there were really two major changes made in coordination with each other. One was to increase the eligibility for childcare financial assistance so that families at higher income levels are eligible, as well as a little bit of expansion of categorical eligibility based on the service needs because people need to have a reason for needing childcare in addition to having income qualifications. So there's just more families eligible now. And the other major change was an increase to the rates that the state pays on behalf of families that are eligible for childcare financial assistance. So that it now is Before, there were times when even with financial assistance, it perhaps wasn't enough money to be able to cover the tuition at a number of programs. Those changes were made at the same time to make it eligible to more people and to make it more worthwhile for both programs and for families to participate. So both those things happen at the same time. We've seen this dramatic increase in the number of families who are eligible. And we do really and while the percentages are staying close to the same, I do think when you look at infants and you look at the box all the way to the left for quarter one of state fiscal year 'twenty three, can see that's nine sixty nine infants. And when you look all the way to the right, you see nineteen seventy six. So they really had doubled. That's the largest percent increase has happened for infants in terms of being eligible. We do think that it was targeted, you know, did sort of hit that target, but we definitely still do see, we don't, well well, if we go to the next slide on capacity, if you wanted to do that.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Well, yeah, I was just, because that was gonna be my question. I'm trying to how figure we double the number of recipients, but stay relatively constant at the capacity.

[Janet McLaughlin (Deputy Commissioner, Child Development Division)]: Right, so I think for capacity, there's two, well, there's really one major factor there, which is that what this represents is licensed childcare capacity. It doesn't necessarily represent how many, exactly how many spaces programs are enrolling at that time, right? So there might be a program that is licensed to serve, well, eight infants and they're choosing to staff that room with, you know, choosing to only serve six, you know, have six kids in that room. Or there might be a program that is licensed for infants, but they couldn't find, you know, because of their staffing, because of workforce concerns, they might not have been able to open that room on the, and so what we're seeing, we think, based on some of the other analysis that's been done, is that programs are reporting that they're being able to operate at higher levels against their license capacity, but that data is a little trickier to put. It's not quite as easily accessible as the license capacity data. But what we are seeing is it's not dropping off. I mean, like, we're seeing it is Whereas if you some charts earlier before, you would have seen license capacity more declining.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Well, we will dive a little bit deeper into this because I think that it's obviously something we've made a very large investment in, in the state. And so, I think we need to understand that better. I don't know if the big book describes a little bit more in detail. For instance, if we compare to nursing homes, we know that they maintain roughly a 10% vacancy rate in order to be able to adjust to the care needs of the different people who are there. And so if this is about capacity, I think the number that we really want to see is what were the actuals and how that has changed over time, the actual number.

[Janet McLaughlin (Deputy Commissioner, Child Development Division)]: Yeah, and that's something that's tricky, right? Because you're right, childcare is offered through hundreds of different businesses across the state. So we don't actually, we don't require that they, for children who don't participate in childcare for financial assistance, we don't actually require that they send us all of that data. But we do have some ways to back into it because we just had to collect data for immunization purposes. So we have some ways that we can estimate some of those that we can share with you. And the other thing I think that is relevant is to compare some of these numbers against national trends as well, because you can see that in other states that they are seeing higher declines in childcare Yeah,

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: okay, we'll definitely delve into this a lot deeper. Representative Eastes, I think, had a question.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: I think that we're gonna wait.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Okay, all All

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: right, thank you, Janet, for hopping on.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: We are on slide 18 now. Caseloads for AABD supplementary SSI payments have continued to steadily trend downward over the past two state fiscal years.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Do you know if that's because of lack of information about the availability of this? How do people

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: get connected

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: to understand that they might be eligible for this? I think it would be helpful to

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: have Miranda weigh in on that.

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: Just Okay. To piggyback, not only knowing that it's available, but also I've known several people who were actually experiencing homelessness too and weren't receiving SSI, but did qualify. And so it's real difficulty of acquiring it, even if you are eligible. So the support's available for folks through the agency, better understanding what is going on to help folks who need help in acquiring that.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Yes, we pay the federal government to administer these benefits on our behalf. So I think part of it is that when somebody becomes eligible for SSI, the Fed sends us a bill every month saying this is how much they paid out on our behalf. We pay them, and we also put an administrative fee to send you the money on our behalf. So I think the processes of that I would love to Miranda to weigh in on, but a lot of it is just tied to receiving SSI benefits from the

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: federal government. Think Miranda will be with us in about twenty minutes. Okay. General assistance. GA provides emergency financial assistance to eligible individuals and families. This may include help paying for personal needs and incidentals, housing, fuel and utilities, medical and burial costs.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So, we have the same questions Same questions that we had about AABD. Okay.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: The Governor's Housing Initiative, we'll get into that more next week. This is just an overview of that. The next two slides.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Three.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: And then ThreeSquares. ThreeSquares Vermont is the Federal Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, SNAP, which provides low income households better access to a healthy diet while supporting American agriculture.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Reach Up? Can we just ask, has there been any further hiccups in that? Are things running smoothly, I guess, with regard to federal receipts at this point? Yes, there's additional reporting that has to happen every time we draw down funding now, which is administratively difficult, but it is working. And so your department, we didn't really talk about ups and downs of numbers of employees and any changes in FTEs and stuff. I'm just curious because you are getting hit with some additional reporting requirements from the Feds in a few areas. I'm just wondering if there's increased staffing required as a result of that.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Budget presents increased staffing associated or continued staffing associated with the housing initiative. And those are the only positions. Those are

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: the only new positions. Are there any reductions in staff? Are there any proposed reductions in staff? Not in the

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: I don't know. Your commissioner is saying yes. Oh, yeah, there's one in admin, yes.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay, so there's one in Yes. And is that admin in ESD or admin in real admin? It's ESD admin. One case manager position associated with the Reach First program. Okay, go ahead.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: On SNAP, are there any current numbers available on the error rate, as that could in the future have the impact

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: on Yeah,

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: we just had a great the state fiscal year '25 came in at 5.1? Yeah, fiscal year. Got it.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Yes, so that's good. It's not the final. A little bit

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: of breathing. The

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: initial numbers, which are always positive to hear. Along

[Unidentified Committee Member]: that same lines, I guess the requirements moving forward are going to be around working and volunteering. Have you been thinking about how to track that and be able to deal with collecting that information so that we keep in that 5.1? I'm sure Miranda is. I've heard a lot about states having some issues with trying to track that. And so just trying to think about it before it's on our plate as a requirement.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Their Okay. Plan is over there. Okay.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Love

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: it. Do you feel like you have I guess I'm just going to continue to ask the question because there are additional federal requirements coming down. And while we don't like them, they are what we're kind of stuck with. And there's a lot of them. I'm just trying to figure out how you'd be able to continue to do what you've been doing and then adding on these additional responsibilities. And, you know, are you looking at changing job descriptions? Are you looking at contracting with community partners to help explain these changes to recipients? Are you looking at any of that kind of stuff?

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Yes. Do you feel equipped to talk about that or do you want to wait for Miranda?

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: We can wait for Miranda on the ONST side. Things. Did you have any of hands? Jubilee? No? Okay. Thank you.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Reach Up. Reach Up helps eligible parents gain job skills and find work so they can support their minor dependent children. Services include educational employment supports, case management services, and monthly cash payments to pay for basic necessities. Reach Up caseloads have been decreasing over the past year, which contrasts with our projected increase in caseloads we used for last year's budget, resulting in projected savings. Looking at historical data, one can see that cases have gone up and down over the years, and DCF has always adjusted its budget to reflect that. Low Income Heating and Energy Assistance Program DCF's fuel assistance program has two components: seasonal fuel assistance operated by the Economic Services Division and crisis fuel assistance operated by the state's five community action agencies. Go ahead, Representative Cole. Sorry to go back

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: just two slides to the reach out for me, was one slide. But just, I am curious, when did the labs go up? Let's see.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Twenty three, three at least. Okay. Go ahead, With

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: the decreasing caseload and the peers' $3,300,000 downward adjustment, has there been discussion of changing the ratable reduction?

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Yes, and there was a study done that I think there, yeah, there was a study done and it would be a significant cost to increase it, and then when it goes up again, then you would have to maintain or it would be a cut.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Correct, and also it might lead to larger case loads as well, just because different eligibilities of populations, so it's really a difficult thing to project, the cost of when you change.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: Can you say more about the connection between a change in rateable reduction and change that creating a change in or an increase in the caseload?

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Again, I think I don't know if Mariah is here yet, think she could weigh in on the specifics more. But it's my understanding that

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: We have a report on that. I don't remember if it was last year or

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: the year before, two years ago.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I'll be honest, we are concerned, particularly in light of the rate of inflation and what that has been and the impact on these very, very low income families that we are sort of continually seeing decreases in this. And I realize it's because that the caseload has decreased, and we would expect increases if the caseload is increasing. And we're not expecting miracles, but we're expecting some recognition that what the state is doing right now is not consistent with livability for people to exist. When we have a ratable reduction of 50%, and we're basing some of this on information that is so outdated. And then when there's a potential opportunity to assist very, very low income individuals that there doesn't seem to be any discussion of it at least. And I'm not talking about going from a rate of reduction of 50% to none, I'm talking about maybe making the rate of a reduction 48 or 47%. And it's just really troubling when we're talking about the levels of these folks. So had Ray first and then Jubilee and then Anne. That study does say about that percentage going up. I know, that study was commissioned by the legislature. And we don't see the administration taking any efforts to make a change. That's what I'm referring to.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Just to kind of follow-up on that, and I know we continue to talk about this in this committee and other committees every year. The bill that we passed also had a component in it to ask DCF to come up with a plan to actually change the rateable reduction, which I feel like, it's been two to three years, and I feel like that hasn't really come forward from the administration. And I was just wondering if there's any calculations that you guys have done. I have to go back and look at that report again from the bill that was produced. But do you know, Megan, if that had, like, each percentage point change, what that equates to? Because as the chair mentioned, we're not looking for a drastic change. It would be great if we can have small, gradual change over the years, like a five year plan, a three year plan, to work towards something that is helping these families stay out of homelessness and higher costs services, keep them in their homes and keep them fed. Just don't know if you guys are doing any of those internal calculations because when we see reductions, it's just challenging to see that.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: You see the reductions in the caseloads and that's upsetting to you or concerning to you is what you're saying.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Well, just wondering why there's no plan to change the ratable reduction. I hear your reasons, but I wonder, is there any plan to do a gradual change, small changes to the chair's point?

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: At this point, no. We've been focusing on homelessness and addressing that. So we've been doing a lot of work in that arena. We look at that study, it was $5,500,000 for a small increase. So it's weighing priorities and focusing on where we think we can make a difference. So I hear the frustration, but there's limited resources. And that's including the staff doing the work and looking at what we can do and trying to figure out how to address the problem overall.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: We do have a number of reach out families who are homeless.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (Member)]: Right. Well, that's about, I mean, glad you brought up homelessness because we do have to look at the big picture and what's happening on the federal level. And it may not be this grant cycle, but we know that as soon as they can, HUD is looking to drastically cut vouchers. And the only way you can exist on the current reach up amounts is either being homeless in a shelter or having a voucher. So we're having these conversations. There is not a single place in Vermont where you can rent a home with your Reach Up benefits without having a voucher. So you look at these numbers, and we're going to I mean, 3,000, a little over 3,000 folks. When this happens on the federal level, all of those who are not already homeless are going to be homeless. That is going to be thousands of families entering homelessness. And this is our one way where we can support them. So I really hope we can have more conversations and do something about this to put more pockets, more money, more pockets into the families, more money into the pockets of families. Because we're calling this a homelessness crisis now. This will be like nothing we've seen before in Vermont if we don't figure out a way to prepare now. Because it's coming. It's just a matter of when.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Representative Donahue? A bit of the same point, but briefly, when I think about how we look at virtually everything else in terms of employees' stats, we recognize that there needs to be an inflationary increase, and that if there weren't, it's a decrease. So I don't think we're talking about increasing. I think we're talking about not continuously decreasing what these families are getting by keeping it level when we know costs, and particularly as has been underscored already, the costs of housing and the relationship. Talk about wanting to put efforts into homelessness, and if we're not preventing homelessness by cutting people's base fare supports.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: A good set,

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: but we'll

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Really, Jen, this is unrelated to, but

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: it might be a Miranda question, but just looking at the reach out slide, the third line says agreement reductions. Can either one of you speak to what that is? Yes, we can go through that

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: in more detail when we get to the outside. I think we're just trying to get these slides first.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay, go ahead. We're gonna have a lot of detailed questions when we get to the details. So, okay, that'd be good. Thanks.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: You okay, Rep. Buyer?

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: Yeah, just confused on some of the stuff,

[Unidentified Committee Member]: but I'll get to that.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: Okay. Not confused, just actually rather concerned, but far away.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: OYO Okay. Administers funds to help organizations address poverty through community initiatives and direct services in the areas of financial capability, homelessness assistance, and community services. This includes core federal funding for community action agencies and homeless shelter and service providers. OEO Weatherization. The Low Income Home Weatherization Assistance Program reduces energy costs for low income families by improving the energy efficiency and comfort of their homes while ensuring their health and safety. The Home Weatherization Assistance Program fund provides state funding for weatherization through a fuel tax on all non transportation fuels sold in the state. And then the secure residential treatment facility. We'll get into more discussion about that. Disability Determination Services, BS, provides applicants with accurate medical eligibility decisions as quickly as possible, as governed by Social Security federal statutes, regulations and policies with full and fair consideration of each applicant's situation, respect and concern for the individual's well-being and legal rights. We'll just note that DBS is a national leader. I think Rep. Donahue talked about that last time we were here. An average initial case processing time is seventy point five days and the national average is one hundred and ninety days. The initial decisional accuracy is 99%, which is among the top 10 states. They process 6,488 SSA claims and two fifty four state Medicaid claims for federal fiscal year 2025.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: So those are the slides. Okay. Megan, do we have yours? Slides? Slides? Is it the spreadsheet? So we have the stems that we can talk through. See them. Yeah, I can pull them up. We'd like Oh, to have them thought Millie syndrome. Yeah, that's a spreadsheet. No, we don't have that.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: I think Millie's on, so I'll see if that's

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I see Lily is on now too. Good morning, Lily.

[Lily Sochener (Director, Office of Economic Opportunity)]: Good morning, everyone. Lily Sochener, the Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: For people online, we're just waiting for the spreadsheets to be forwarded to us so that we can follow along.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: I normally present a spreadsheet that has a narrative on it, but it was we were told that you preferred the word format document book version this day around.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: It's whatever it is technical. I was going to say you had the option of doing one or other of the both. Doesn't whatever I'm sure we'll have questions either way. So, do you receive anything?

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Nothing except

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: that overview.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And Lori just double checked. At the health department yesterday, we saw the summary ups and downs spreadsheet. That's what we saw.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: I don't know if we'll have one it will take to get this to you. I could try something here but I'm sharing my screen. I will send it to Laurie. Perfect.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: It's also working on it.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Do you have the one that has the narrative over on the side too?

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: I do not have that. We did the budget book version. Okay, did that in that. Okay.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: This one here about the into the

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: While we give the Yes.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: That'd be

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Eric in the Erica's Erica's area. Erica, just as a heads up, we're gonna be asking about Social Security SSI benefits for kids in custody. Federal ruling on that.

[Erica Radke (Deputy Commissioner, Family Services Division)]: Sounds good.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Thank you. That's what you meant, right? Yeah.

[Miranda Gray (Deputy Commissioner, Economic Services Division)]: Do you want her to talk about that

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: now while we're waiting for the to be sent? Do you have specific questions?

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: We haven't seen the ups and downs. What we're wondering is how the department's gonna be coming into compliance with that guidance from the federal government that that money should be going to the children and youth. Because historically we've used that in Vermont to reduce our payments that go out to foster care providers.

[Erica Radke (Deputy Commissioner, Family Services Division)]: Yes. I know that there's still some discussions going on, but philosophically, we are absolutely aligned that those funds should go back to the children and youth. But there's an issue of whether or not it leaves a significant hole in our budget around $400,000 that would need to be made up. And I do want to point out that the funds when they come in, they're absolutely used for the care, for services for the youth. It's not, just sort of thrown into the pot for regular FSD use. Generally, the cost of care for the youth absolutely extends past what, is provided by Social Security. But in those rare instances when there is an excess of funding from social security, when the child leaves custody, we do send that money to the child. And we have also been, in some cases when children are exiting out of custody in a year or so, we've been working with them to get these payments, shifted over to a representative payee so that they can begin the, you know, normalcy and the regular skills that they need to become an adult. So we're shifting the payments over and they're beginning to work with their representative payee on how to use the funds responsibly. Any other specific questions?

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Yeah, just so your interpretation of the federal requirement is that it can be used for their care and doesn't have to be put aside for them when they exit state custody or given to them while they are in state custody. Interpretation is that that money can continue to be used the way it has been used.

[Erica Radke (Deputy Commissioner, Family Services Division)]: You know, I have not seen this specific information. So if there's a new change, I'd have to look at it and circle back. But as far as what I was made aware of, it was not a strict mandate that it had to be used directly for the youth or given to the youth. It's always used for the youth.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: I'm not a lawyer, so I'm gonna say what the holidays are.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Americans. Yeah. Oh, no.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Well, It's not

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: I I know that in other parts of our state government, we do similar things in terms of charging for a person's care through their know, this is Social Security.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Pay for their board. Pay for

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: their ruling board out of their benefits or what have you. So, not that this is appropriate, but the philosophical thought about that is this, and

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: I think is worth questioning.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So, what I'm hearing you say, Deputy Commissioner, is that it is not directive or a new rule. It is It's guidance.

[Erica Radke (Deputy Commissioner, Family Services Division)]: And if we were able to have a different source, I think as a division, we would be happy then to not even use those funds for the care and support of those youth, but to save them for them or provide them to them when they exit care. But at this point, we're absolutely using them for their care, which is what they would do with their families as well. And then when there are additional needs outside of that, we are supplementing that to make sure they get the care that they need. Okay.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Do you have a question? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Go ahead, representative. A separate topic, but if we're

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: doing some discussion because we're waiting for them. Yeah. Just a little, you know, reminder piece. I know that the transportation costs are in one of the ups as well and we are still awaiting the report promised last April on the transportation issues around physical restraints transportation, and we've been promised it repeatedly and we've still been promised it and still haven't seen it.

[Erica Radke (Deputy Commissioner, Family Services Division)]: Thank you for that reminder. We are absolutely going to get you the more granular detail, that you're requesting. I know that we did send some information up breaking out the transportation, versus, our regular transportation of kids to school or to appointments versus secure transportation. And it sounds like you're needing some additional information that we need to get from the sheriffs. And we're we're still working on it, but we will get it to you as soon as we can.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: I appreciate it because I think the question and discussion was really, really clear last April. And the report that we got a couple weeks ago was not remotely on Target for the specific information request. So it continues to be. It's not a new request here. It's the same question.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Being as I wasn't here in April, do you think you could reiterate it and then I can make sure that you get what you need?

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Sure. In the last two weeks I was asked that and I did send that again and I can't remember who that I think it was It wasn't me, you're off.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: I'll find out. Okay, I will look into it. Nelly

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: and I had a conversation about it, but it is specific to the use of physical restraints during the secure transportation, which is explicitly called out in Vermont state law in terms of it being contrary to state policy and the rare

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: exceptions. So you're talking about mechanical restraints or intervention, use as an intervention?

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Mechanical restraints during transportation.

[Erica Radke (Deputy Commissioner, Family Services Division)]: And yeah, what we ended up providing was the percentage of restraints as part of our overall budget, which is very, very low. But what you're looking for, I understand is how many times mechanical restraints we use in transportation for youth. And, that's going to take us, know, as you know, we are limited in our computer, expertise. So that's going to require us to reach out to the shares to determine maybe they can look back in their files to determine what type of restraint was used for what kid and when.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: This is gonna cause me

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: to ask a follow-up That

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: is not something that you routinely request. Isn't that something that you would want to know whether a child was put in, I'm just gonna say put in handcuffs or zip tied. You don't wanna know that?

[Erica Radke (Deputy Commissioner, Family Services Division)]: That would come in like, I think generally depending upon the youth, we would already know who would be used with handcuffs. And I know that they would have that in their reports. And also if a kid were going to court, we would have a worker meeting in there. So that was something we would be aware of. But in terms of keeping the number of those youth, it's not something that we have really any kind of capability to carve that out in our computer system. That's something we're going to have to reach out to the deputies and the sheriffs to get.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: So just to note, I I mean, in the discussion I had when, Nelly asked me, you know, for specifics, it it's something that, the Department of Mental Health hosts in their whatever it's called, the indicators reports on a quarterly basis for youth who are in custody of the mental health commissioner who are being transported. So this is a real discrepancy between departments about recording it. The sheriff's department used to have a policy: If we transport, we shackle. That went for children who were being moved from one non secure group home to another non secure group home. That's

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: why

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: we passed the statute back in 2005, I believe. Then And later, because it wasn't being enforced, we passed another statute that said the Agency of Human Services were not allowed to contract for transportation unless the contractors, the sheriffs for example, committed to following the requirements. And so these requirements are in place, so it's kind of alarming to say the least that it's not being tracked at all in data when it's so explicit in state law about this being done. And again, April's a long time ago for it's

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: going to

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: take time to work on it.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: Can I just tell you that there is a team that a recently identified team at DCF that's looking at restraint seclusion, how we capture data? So this will incorporate this moving forward. We'll look at what we have going back and get that to you, But we are looking at it now.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay, members. We do have Meghan's spreadsheet on our website. And I regret to inform you that I am sure that we are not going to get through it all in the next seventeen minutes.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: If I talked faster,

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: we'd be

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: to I was prepared. I know. So we'll get through as much as we can and then we'll have you back. And of course, by that time, we will have your book and you'll Maybe you won't even need us

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: once you dig about it.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Have no questions.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: The book

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: is on. Yeah. Well, don't open the book up yet. That's just gonna we're

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: gonna

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: be having DCF back, so don't open up the book. Let's open up the spreadsheet. You won't go back. Put it down? No questions. No questions from the book.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Okay. We will be making sure you've read it,

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: though. I do not blame you, frankly. Ask for something. Need to do that. So I do not blame you. Fair comments. It is absolutely fair. Okay.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Go for it, Megan. So I'm going to jump through salaries and fringe because we have a lot to get through, those are not terribly exciting to talk about. You all sort of understand that.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Before you do, I wish if you could just summarize again. What I got from you is that there is one FTE reduction. Is that a RIF or is that a vacant position? So that's actually below. Oh, that's below. Okay.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: The first ones are just the

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: annualization of pay off stuff. Well, I see Reach First admin.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Yes, that is position. So there's a tann of revenue realignment. We talked about that in BAA. We don't need to go into that. The next item on there is the temp step cut. We're eliminating two temporary positions, one in the commissioner's office and one in the business office, as part of our admin efficiencies to meet our budget goals. Then we have the ReachWorks admin cut. That is one position that is shortly to be vacant that we are eliminating as a result of the fact that when we get to the Reach Up section of the budget, you'll

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: see we are eliminating the Reach First program. Having been a direct participant in creation of it, I do have some questions because it wasn't at the time just about doing something good to help families. It was much more significant.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Yes, we understand that

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: there's a lot

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: of really difficult conversations. We stood to lose a huge amount of federal money. We brought in outside experts. It was created in part, it was also good practice, but in part to prevent a significant loss of federal funds. So I want to hear about how we're not going to lose those federal funds by eliminating this really specific tool.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Was that the maintenance effort for Tana? Yeah, we don't need

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: to get into it now. You

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: just did. Well, in more detail. I mean, we don't need

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: to get into the answer to why it's not going to hurt us now all of a sudden and so on and so forth.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Our budget teams, you're lucky you have six people, seven counting me, from our meager committee here who will be in close contact with your division directors.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: So we have a revenue true up to align with how we actually earned the revenue last year. And then there'll be three line items on here, one in the personal services, one in operating, and one in grants out. It's SNAP admin federal changes. And this is a result of the EHR one bill that was passed by the federal government changed the amount of admin funding that we get for SNAP from 50% to 25%. So we have significant general fund pressures as a result of that.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: And again, this is for

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: the staffing component, but these are people who work with our eligibility, and we have to make sure that we're maintaining that low error rate to meet the 6% threshold to avoid an even larger financial impact. So that's that. And then we have the housing initiative, limited service positions. And again, we are coming in next week to really dive into the weeds on that. So maybe we can skip over those for now.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: We could skip over the housing ones, because we will do a deeper dive on that next week. I just want to come back to the SNAP share change thing. I think I was expecting This is sort of a lesson for committee members. You can't just all the way just go all the way over to the right and see zero, meaning that it's a net neutral. It's not really net neutral like in SNAP. It's additional state funds that are being required and the loss loss of federal funds. So that's that's a big jump. But I was expecting a bigger jump.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue (Ranking Member)]: Yes. We had heard 6,000,000 Yeah.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: In the news and one. Okay.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Another line down below in operate. You have to

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: put the ups where our budget aligns, right? Okay, so salaries, there's an operating one and then there's a grants out one. Okay. And

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: together they sum up to about 4.5. The six will be a whole year, but we are on the federal this started on the federal system. This year's six quarters. Okay.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Under that. All right, this year. Thank you.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Then skipping through the ISS, because those are pretty routine in nature, except our ADS one is a significant increase.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: The maintenance of Sorry, I'm not going to skip over ADS because I want to ask you to see if you have any idea about how that is. All we keep hearing is that it's an allocation change. Do you know what the allocation is based on? Get

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: the number from AHS, so I would have to direct you to the AHS We're going

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: to have ADS in the room this afternoon So with Erica and we're going to ask that question because it's big jumps for everybody. I don't think it's net neutral, but it's hard to track. It's not net neutral for you, I know. And I understand it going out to individual departments. Okay, thank you. I just thought it's the trick question that I'm asking everybody and everybody has the same answer. We just get it from AHS. So you're all being consistent. I love that.

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: You got our story straight ahead.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: So then the next line on here is the maintenance and operation costs for our IUD noticing solutions. So this is the first portion of the integrated eligibility and enrollment system going by into the maintenance and operations phase, and the costs are allocated between DCF and DIVA. We have our income verification system, which we talked about at VAA. That's a continued need as we just go forward. Then you see some more revenue true ups, another million dollars for admin operating for SNAP as a result of HR1. And then we have three administrative efficiencies that we're proposing. ESD believes that between state cell phones and office phones, we can eliminate desk phones and save some money there. And then also saving some money on office supplies. And then we're proposing a reduction of vehicles also within the commissioner's office, specifically for our AAGs. I have a question.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: So just quickly, is there any I'm not seeing anything related to equipment or supplies needed for return to office. And I know people had to lease up, and I don't know if DCF was involved in any of that. You're utilizing the space and the equipment that's already allocated. Okay.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: And then the last portion of the SNAP admin federal share, we also have HR1 eliminated the SNAP education program. And so while we didn't have any general funds invested in that, we are removing the federal funding from our budget since that is no longer a program. Can I

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: ask about the one just above that, the 654,000? Under grants, so who received that grant? Did that go out to community partners in some way?

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Yes, is some SNAP admin agreements that we have. I can get the actuals. I don't know if Miranda is online.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I think she is online or she was. Are you there, Miranda, still?

[Miranda Gray (Deputy Commissioner, Economic Services Division)]: Am. Thank you. Good morning. Good morning. Apologies.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: I'm not sure if you heard the question. 654,000 in SNAP admin under grants, what community partners is that impacting?

[Miranda Gray (Deputy Commissioner, Economic Services Division)]: Yep, so Hunger Free Vermont would be one of the partners. There's also some councils on aging, I want to say. So there are community partners that help with the education that have the loss of funding, but they would also, they'd have to increase their contribution, so we're still trying to understand with them their ability to do that, that increase from the fiftyfifty to the 50 to 75 for them. I think they will have an explore. What they were going to be able to do or not be able to do.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Okay. I'm a little confused a little bit, because you spoke about education. I recognize the 437,000 under education going out to community partners. I think people had some time to understand and adjust that that was coming. I'm looking at the admin part, the 654,000 that is under grants.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: I think that's like outreach, Brenda. I don't know if

[Miranda Gray (Deputy Commissioner, Economic Services Division)]: you Yes, sorry. And okay, yes. So my apologies. So the SNAP outreach that is 100 free Vermont Councils on Aging. And that is, and sorry, I would just be repeating myself, so I'm trying to think of how to say it. So are

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: you saying that all these folks received that outreach as well as program education? In other words, it a $1,100,000 cut to those same organizations if you were to put

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: it The first line of general. So it's not actually

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Oh, okay. Yes. Thank you. Sorry. I'm sorry. Yes, I missed that. I'm just looking at the reds. Sorry. All right. So it's just the education part. Okay. My apology, Miranda. Make note of that. I apologize to Miranda.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Moving on to the next line item on there, it's the two eleven hour reduction. We are proposing moving away from a 20 fourseven operation of the housing two eleven line, because between the hours of 11PM and 8AM, we are unable to place people in hotels. If they were to call, all we can do is inform them they should call back after 8AM. And so, as a result, we are proposing that there can be administrative efficiencies achieved by reducing the addicts cooperation for that program.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: So when I ask 211, is that what they're gonna say? That they just tell people to call back at 08:00?

[Rep. Esme Cole (Member)]: Miranda? Miranda?

[Miranda Gray (Deputy Commissioner, Economic Services Division)]: I am sure that they will have a different feeling on this, but I think I know what I experience and I know what I hear from others when they aren't able to get through or they aren't able to get the support that they thought they were going to get there as well. I don't believe that there is an actual impact on the brochures. Their experience won't be different. It would just be clearer for everyone what the hours of operation truly are.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: They're not placing people. They're not doing that. They're saying in the morning, call back in the morning.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Are you thinking it's different? Think

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: it would be surprising to us if they say anything different than that. Okay. Well, I think you

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: should be prepared to be surprised.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Okay.

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: I'll brace myself.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Okay, then the last item is part of the housing initiative. So we'll pass that as well.

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: Go ahead, represent.

[Rep. Zon Eastes (Member)]: Say it's part of the housing initiative, but this relates to something fairly discrete, that's not for disasters.

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: Yes, so the housing initiative has many lines in the budget. As we go And in

[Sandy (Sandra) Hoffman (Interim Commissioner, DCF)]: the budget book, and that's what

[Megan Smeaton (Chief Financial Officer, DCF)]: we're keep taking a sneak peek. Yeah, but there is a whole section just for the housing initiative because we thought it would be helpful to be able to see it as a package deal as it was scattered between the different appropriations. So

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: this is a good place to stop since we're just at noon. So we're going to obviously have to have you back, and we'll figure out a time between you're there and whenever you're downstairs and whenever we're doing the housing. I'm going to encourage people, actually, we don't have everybody sitting here, but I'll make sure everybody gets it. Overnight reading over the weekend when you're all warm in your homes and the people who are homeless are not. Will you please make a particular effort to read the housing section because we're gonna have in-depth discussion from all of the AHS departments about that next week. So it'd be helpful, and I think you will be able to ask more informed questions based upon what we see there. So thank you all. And thank you for people who were here online. Sorry, we didn't get to everything that we had hoped to, but we will have you back when we can figure out a schedule. Scheduling is not easiest, but appreciate the information. Appreciate getting the book and everything and we'll definitely be reading it over the weekend.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano (Vice Chair)]: Sure, enjoy it. All right. Thank you

[Rep. Theresa Wood (Chair)]: so much. Thanks. Committee members, we are back at DCF Topics at one We're downstairs, Lauren. Downstairs in Room 11. We will be talking about CCWIS, Child's Welfare Information System. We're gonna be looking at an update on how system development is going, what the issues are, what the results and how the recent outage was handled, what some of the vulnerabilities are, etcetera. So downstairs at one.