Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Good morning, welcome to House Human Services. Today is Friday, January 16, and we are going to continue our conversation about H-ninety four or H-five 94, an act relating to establishing the Temporary Emergency Housing and Accountability Program and the Return to Home Program. And we have witnesses from the Vermont Interfaith Action and the Christ Fiscal Church, Montpelier, and Melissa and Beth Ann. I don't know who's going to go first. Melissa, you're going first.

[Melissa Vittenden]: It's up to Beth Ann.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: She pointed at you, so she has determined you're going first.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Am going first today.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: You both have been in our committee before, so I'm going to forego introductions and then give the floor to Melissa. Welcome.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Great, thank you. Good morning, Representative Ray and members of the House Committee on Human Services. My name is Melissa Vittenden. I am the Executive Director of Vermont Interfaith Action. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. VIA serves as the administrator of Vermont's Extreme Cold Weather Shelter Program. I wanna walk you through the process of how extreme weather provisions are assessed, activated and implemented and to share what we have learned from administrating this program during increasingly volatile winter conditions. At its core, the extreme cold weather shelter program exists to prevent loss of life for our unhoused neighbors. Our guiding principle is simple. No one should be left outside when weather conditions pose a serious and foreseeable risk to human safety. The work is logistical, relational, and time sensitive and depends on coordination across state agencies, local partners, congregations, and shelter providers. Our process begins with continuous monitoring of weather conditions. We track National Weather Service forecasts daily with particular attention to temperature, wind chill, precipitation, and duration of exposure risk. The extreme cold events are rarely just about a single overnight low, but extended periods of subfreezing temperatures, ice, snow accumulation, and wind all compound danger, especially for people already living outdoors or are in unstable conditions. When forecasts approach sustained temperatures of zero degrees Fahrenheit, including wind chill for optional activation and negative 10 degrees Fahrenheit including wind chill for mandatory implementation, VIA initiates an internal review and this includes checking in directly with the shelter provider sites to confirm their readiness to operate including staffing, supplies, and any logistical needs so we can ensure each site is prepared to safely receive guests. Once conditions indicate a need for activation, the shelter program staff begins sending out activation warnings to shelter sites, DCF staff, state workers, and the two eleven staff who are the ones that will relay information to the public. Our role as administrators to determine when extreme weather provisions should be activated and to ensure that shelters and emergency sites have the authorization, communication, and operational support they need to respond quickly. Decisions are made with urgency but also consistency guided by established criteria rather than ad hoc judgment. When extreme weather shelter is activated, the staff provide technical assistance to shelter site locations, helping them manage bed availability, extended hours if needed, and temporary overflow options should they arise. The support sites in addressing barriers that may prevent people from accessing shelter, including transportation challenges, medical vulnerabilities or trauma related need. The extreme cold weather shelter staff also maintain ongoing communication with those on the front lines, the faith communities, local organizers, offering guidance and support to ensure that shelters can respond effectively to critical incidents and rapidly changing conditions should they arise. This coordination ensures timely and safe access to shelters for those in need. While the program has prevented harm and saved lives, it operates with real constraints and we haven't been able to save every life this particular season. Capacity remains limited mostly due to staffing shortages, particularly during holiday times. Facilities not designed to absorb a growing scale of need that we see now or not designed to house individuals even for a night or two. And we're seeing that extreme weather events are either more frequent, but they're also less predictable. It's stretching a system that was never intended to function for long term housing solutions, but we're happy to fill in the needs that have arisen. This program highlights a fundamental tension that emergency sheltering is reactive by nature. It's a necessary safety net, but it's not a sustainable for stable permanent housing. And each activation underscores the urgency of addressing the broader housing and homelessness crisis in Vermont. In closing, BIA's process as administrator is built on vigilance, coordination, and rapid response. We take this responsibility seriously because the consequences of delay or inaction are severe. The extreme weather sheltering is one of the last lines of defense for people with nowhere else to go. Thank you for your attention, your continued work on policies that affect our most vulnerable neighbors, and I'm happy to answer any questions that the committee may have.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Thank you. Representative Bishop.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: Thank you. A couple of questions. You went through quickly that those parties that are notified should a shelter be opening, and maybe the group I'm gonna ask about is included in that, but I I missed it. Hospitals. Are hospitals among the groups that are notified? I asked the question as we had some representatives of hospitals speaking yesterday about the increased pressure on emergency departments, and it wasn't clear to me in the way that they provided their testimony that they were aware of this option. So I hope that as a suggestion, think I saw your head nodded they are not currently on the list, is that correct?

[Melissa Vittenden]: No, so the extreme cold weather shelter sites that we do have operating, we only have six operating across the country or across the state, and they're only in certain locations. We notify the shelter sites when they need to activate so that they know that if they activate, they're going to receive funding for it. We also notify DCF staff, and they've asked us to include a couple of other state workers who operate within the Agency of Human Services, and then two eleven. In terms of any other service providers, hospitals, they're not on that list of which shelter locations are activated when, but anyone can call 211 and they have that information.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: Okay and maybe it's next level down where the notification can take place. I'm on the email distribution list for the Chittenden County Homeless Alliance. So I get the notifications and if I can ask that question of them, guess to see if UVM Medical Center is on that list. Curious if aware or maybe our next witness can help with this question. The logistics of a person's personal property, which I imagine is more significant than what they might carry with them when they go to a shelter, can you discuss that at all?

[Melissa Vittenden]: Each shelter site is different. As administrators of the grant, offer guidelines for how the shelter sites set up their locations because, I mean, we have some folks that are being that the emergency shelters are in congregations. We have others that are in libraries, municipal buildings, so each location has its own unique barriers. Some of the shelter sites have used money to procure secure lockers or like boxes that folks, individuals can put their belongings in. Others have set up like little cot areas. So each shelter site is different. Really can't, we'd have to ask all the individual shelter sites to answer that question. But most of those have tried to accommodate both the individual along with their belongings.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: One final question, if I may. Can you review again, referenced it, I'm sorry I didn't internalize all the information you shared, but you referenced the temperature guideline, and I think there's both the zero degree and the 10 below markers that you could restate that and if there's anything you could add that would be appreciated.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Yeah, this has been something that as we've designed the program for this year, it's sort of evolved. So the mandatory operation is negative 10 degrees Fahrenheit, including wind chill, but it has to be sustained for four hours within the night to be considered mandatory. And what we have asked the shelter site providers that are part of the program is that those are the nights where you will ensure that you have the staff and the capacity and the ability to operate should it activate. We've only had a couple of nights with a handful of locations that have operated under that so far this season. However, we recognize, the community recognizes that negative 10 is still really cold and that people can freeze at a higher degree. So we, every month and really on an ongoing weekly basis, we assess both the budgetary ability as well as the capacity of the shelter locations to see if they are able to operate at an optional activation of zero degrees Fahrenheit, including wind chill, again sustained over a period of four hours. And so we will send out activations for those, and then it's up to the shelter sites to say, yes, we have the capacity, yes, we have the staffing, yes, we're able to mobilize people quickly enough to get the shelter site operational. We have other shelter sites that have their own internal policy about when they operate. I think Beth Anne can speak a little bit more to this because I know the Montpelier one does have a different policy and they operate on other nights that are higher than zero degrees. But the state's program that we're administrating will only reimburse shelter sites for those that we initiate the activation either under the mandatory or the optional activation triggers.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Thank you, Melissa.

[Melissa Vittenden]: And I can provide what I shared. I'll give that to Lori, so that you all can refer back to it as well.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Thank you. Representative McGill?

[Rep. Jubilee McGill]: You mentioned that sometimes there can be staffing issues. If you all had more funding and some kind of relaxed guidance, would you be able, would you, do you think you could have the capacity to operate, I mean, not every night, but on more nights in those

[Rep. Esme Cole]: situations? So

[Melissa Vittenden]: again, I want to be really clear. VIA is not operating any

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: shelter Yes, I

[Rep. Jubilee McGill]: mean, yes. Want to shelter sites. I mean your network of, your network of, yeah, shelter sites.

[Melissa Vittenden]: So I'm not necessarily certain that more funding would be the answer to that. I think part of it is that when we are looking at this as a seasonal employment, like if a shelter site decides to say, we're going to hire people to be here, then it's seasonal employment that is not steady, right? Because it's only emergency. So you may work two nights for the season, you may work twenty nights for the season. There's no dependability. So finding people that can actually do that that are outside of an organization that doesn't already exist is challenging to do. So that's where some of the staffing, you know, like staff take vacations. So one of our mandatory nights this season was Christmas Eve. And people were on vacation and there's nothing you can do about that. The other side of things though is that for the shelter locations that rely on volunteers, some have a very robust volunteer base, like the Montpelier site, which Beth Anne can talk about. Others are just getting going this season, and so their volunteer list isn't as big. And so trying to find volunteers that could come in during, you know, on the right nights just has been a challenge for them. As the administrators were trying to provide the technical assistance to help those shelter sites build up those lists and look at what other options that they could employ in order to get the sites up and running.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill]: I'd love if you could share with me more information about how folks could volunteer if they're interested and the sites that are accepting them and contactless, just as a side note. And then we all have pretty huge microphones legislators, and I would be happy to help with that. Are all aware that even just this winter, we've had Vermonters die on the streets. And I am wondering if you can just talk a bit about the human impact on both, that you hear on staff and volunteers at the sites, And also the people experiencing unsheltered homelessness. We're asking folks to do all of these things and also not really acknowledging the trauma, often a lifetime of trauma and harm, but really just the trauma and harm that is happening on a daily basis just by the very fact of them being without a home. So yeah, just some of that to human impact.

[Melissa Vittenden]: I am actually going to defer that question to my colleague, Beth Ann Mare, just because she is on the front lines and probably could articulate it much better than I am able to. So if you don't mind asking her that question, I think she would be a better person to address that. I do know that from what we've heard, it is challenging. I only read the reports. So what I hear from the reports that are given is that people are tired, overworked. You know, as the number of nights increase, it just people become more tired and more overworked, and it is challenging. And then, you know, the folks that are coming in, we ask a lot of them, unfortunately, because of rules and regulations that you all, our federal colleagues, on programs such as this. And what we have to remember is that these are human beings who are fighting for their lives on a day to day basis, minute to minute. And I don't think any of us really understand what it's like to do that. And so the way that we've designed the program and that what we're trying to do is make it so that there's the least amount of barrier while still being able to be accountable for the money and the work that we're doing, but to be able to provide the least barrier options for folks to be warm on some of our coldest nights in Vermont. And that's just something that we have to continue to work out and every situation is different.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Thank you, Melissa. Representative Donahue.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: Thanks. Yes, and thanks for the testimony. You mentioned that there are six operating under the program, under the state funded program. Do you have an estimate of what the total number of beds among with all those six?

[Melissa Vittenden]: Yes, it's over 200. I can I can pull up actually the exact amount?

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: Well, yeah, don't do that next

[Melissa Vittenden]: It's over 200. It's like two zero nine, I believe, the is if every shelter site was open and at full capacity, that would be the total number of beds. It might be a little bit more than that because I know that a couple of the shelter sites were able to secure a few more beds.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: Great. So, what would be great, just as a follow-up, not now, but if we could get a list of what those six locations are and how many beds in in each of those locations.

[Melissa Vittenden]: I'll put that at the bottom of the document that I sent to Lori.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Great. Thank you. Okay.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: And if if you were going to try to, you know, maybe a rough estimate or maybe a question for someone else, but. How many would be needed? To meet that temperature level and so forth, 200 plus, how much more would be needed so that there were enough for anyone who was requesting shelter? Yeah,

[Melissa Vittenden]: so the total number of operating that could potentially be operated is two seventeen. I also wanted to point out that on the states, on the DCF website that talks about the program, we do have the list of locations where the shelter site is, but I'll also provide that for you all. I actually do not have that estimate because, again, the grant and the program decided to focus on six regions, but we know that there are other regions that could also operate these, especially like in more rural areas where maybe folks are sleeping in cars or sleeping in tents and they just need to come in for a night or two when it's the coldest nights. We just didn't have the capacity because again, we were building this program this year as we're going, and we wanted to ensure that we could do what we were being asked to do, do it well, and then hopefully be able to scale up some. But I don't have an estimate of the number that we would need. Even the ones that we got, some of them were touch and go. We were not sure if we were going to have a site in Bennington or Rutland, and we've needed both sites this season. So I don't have the answer to that question, unfortunately.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: Thank

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: you. Thank you.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: I had a question which you touched on a little bit, Melissa. So have you found it very challenging finding operators in the different locations of the state to operate the shelters?

[Melissa Vittenden]: It was a little challenging. We have some ideas for ways that we can reach out for the next season should we have the funding to be able to provide the program again. I think that one of the things is we need to start a lot earlier talking to folks and thinking through logistics. In Central Vermont, and again, Beth Anne might touch on this, the communities in Barrie and Montpelier operated these shelters last year on their own. And it started from just saying, Hey, our neighbors have been kicked out of the Hotel Moctel program. They have nowhere to go. We can't fathom having them sleep on the streets while we're nice and warm in our beds. So they were able to stand up shelters last winter just through generosity in the community. So those two locations, it was rather easy to pull together, but then at the same time there were some challenges. In other locations, it was pretty easy to get going, but I think each location has had some sort of challenge, whether it be you know, fire safety, whether it be permitting, whether it be, you know, waiting for the just the local ordinances to say, hey, we can, you know, allow this shelter to operate at this location and have that public testimony time. Yeah, each site has had its challenges.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Great, thank you. Madam Chair is back.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Good morning, Melissa. Good morning.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Good morning. I appreciate you being here and I'm sorry that I had to be late down in another committee. You may have probably already covered this, but one of the questions that I particularly have when the press was covering sort of the initiation of this relatively new support for local communities that's happening through VIA. I remember the news report and people saying, well, you know, minus 10 degrees is pretty cold. And Yeah. And I remember the person who was being interviewed saying, well, you know, it's it it was well, you know, we don't really know how it's gonna go. We need to stay within the money that we have. And so I guess, trying to figure out how to frame this as a question. Department has notified us that they have $5,500,000 at least money that is going to be underspent in an area for emergency housing. Had they approached VIA about maybe modifying the grant agreement and looking at any different parameters around There's still a lot of winter left, I guess, what I'm saying around you know, loosening up that and I don't know the the what you call it? The temperature thing or and I don't know, honestly, if if the the local groups that, you know, you're working with would be able to accommodate it or not.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Yeah, so from the time that that initial article was released, I unfortunately was out of town with a family matter, so I wasn't able to handle any sort of press, and I think that if I had been speaking, it might have gone a little bit differently because from the start, and I explained this earlier but I would love to explain it again to you, We had set a mandatory trigger of negative 10 was given to us, including wind chill for four hours or more. But we, as administrators, our staff really pushed back and we had lots of conversations. We did a lot of, talked to a lot of different people, did our usual thing that we do at Vermont Interfaith Action and just did our research. And we were able to settle that sites can have an opt in at zero degrees. Zero is still really cold. I mean, I don't think it's quite zero yet, and I've been outside most of the morning and it's pretty cold out there. And we did that because we recognize that they need to open earlier. I don't think it's just a matter of money. It's also capacity of these site locations. And so part of it may be, know, part of what we have put into this program as we've been designing this is the ability to have a time of reflection and a time of evaluation, both every night. So like after a night happens, our staff get on a Zoom call or at least touch base with every shelter site that has operated to do some reflection to take it in right then in the moment, so that we're not trying to look back and say, you know, remember all of the things that we wish we had maybe done differently or the things that went really well that we wanted to replicate again. And we're also going to take time at the end of the season to do that as site providers to be able to think through what things could we change or do differently in the future to operate better? Some locations, we might need to think about, well, is there a different way that we can be doing it? You know, because the need is there, but figuring out all the nuts and bolts sometimes takes a little bit of trial and error. So I don't think some of the sites that could have optional operations, they're declining to do it because they just, they don't have capacity, whether that's staffing, location, whatever. I just want to clarify, then I'll

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: go to Representative Donahue. When you said opt in, I'm not sure I understand what that means. They could does it, they do it on their own dime or would the state pay for it if they opted to do it earlier?

[Melissa Vittenden]: Long as an approved shelter location who we have an agreement with gets an activation email of saying we have looked at all the data, know, tonight in your location, it will be zero degrees or below of including wind chill for a sustained period of time of four hours or more. So you have the authority to operate as an extreme cold weather shelter center tonight should you choose to do that. If it's negative 10 or below, it's a mandatory and so they should be operating unless there's some unforeseen. I think one of the locations had like a toilet start leaking and so they weren't able to open up that night because they had nowhere to put people that night with a mandatory operation. So unless there's some unforeseeable emergency that happens where they're not able to open the shelter because it would be unsafe, they are expected to open the shelter when it reaches negative 10 or below because that's what they signed

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: up for.

[Melissa Vittenden]: But the zero degrees and below, have that optional operating, It's up to them. And if they choose to operate, the state will reimburse. If they choose not to operate, then they don't operate that night.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Okay, thank you. Represent Donahue.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: Yeah, thank you. It's a bit of a follow-up because we were talking about location and so forth. And I think you referenced that DCF has it on their Web site with the actual breakdown. So I. Did a little dual tasking and I looked up on the DCF Web site and I'm not the most computer computer literate person. I could not find anything on it telling me where to find a cold weather emergency shelter. The only connection to to cold weather shelter was a connection to what the the rules are, you know, not not location. So so I went to 211 and obviously you can call that number if you're aware of it. But I just went to the Web site and they did have two links that seemed logical. The closest to were extreme cold warming shelters and or centers, extreme cold warning centers and overnight shelters. And on both of those links, when you click them, they said no information available.

[Melissa Vittenden]: There's an information desert right there.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: We

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: do have an information gap. Yeah.

[Melissa Vittenden]: So, on the DCF website, it is a little bit confusing. It's hard to find. If you go to the OEO menu, under programs, at the bottom of that list is extreme cold weather shelter program. And it will show you the guidance document, the email for us. So Representative McGill, to your point of like, where can people, if they want to volunteer and they don't know who to contact in their local community, they could email that email address and we can connect them. And then it has the list of providers. So we have Bennington County, Chittenden, Northeast Kingdom in Newport, Rutland County, Washington County, and Windham County are the six areas. And then it lists out who the providers are in those areas.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: Yeah. So I just think for our committee to to think about, I mean, if I had I were on the street, there was be no way I could access that. But if I had a friend and I couldn't take them in and I knew they were desperate or someone I knew, I would not be able to find that information.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: And it seems to

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: me it should be right on the home page, you have to know it would be under OEO, etcetera, etcetera. So just more more comment for a committee than for our witness. Thanks.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Thank you. Thank you. Other questions for Melissa? I want to you know, I've seen the impact of VIA stepping up and working with the communities and was going by a local spot here in Montpelier last night and saw people lined up waiting to get in. And I just, I really, really appreciate the fact that you all have been working so hard to make this happen for our unhoused neighbors out there with not a huge amount of notice and an amount of work that I know trying to do these things on a shoestring with volunteers out there. And like you said, capacity issues. I've been copied on some Division of Fire Safety emails and all of those kinds of things, you which probably mentioned. I just want to say thank you for what VIA has done to help people.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Thank you for giving us the opportunity to.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Great. Okay, Doctor. Mayer, Beth Ann. Welcome to the table.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: Is this it? Yeah. Do

[Melissa Vittenden]: I have

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: to speak up the

[Rep. Esme Cole]: wrong thing?

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: No, the microphones are very sensitive.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: I'm Beth Anne Mayer, retired pediatrician, you just live across the street from Texas. This is our third year in Montpelier of operating an emergency cold weather shelter. We started, we meaning a collaboration of congregations of faith in Montpelier, started the year before last, during which there were only 14 nights that met our trigger, is the weather needs to be below 10 degrees. And that's continued to be our trigger for more than a few hours and that includes wind chill. So, the first year there were 14 nights, last year there were 45 nights that met that trigger, which took us by surprise. We do have a fairly robust list of volunteers. All of the people that take shifts during the night are volunteers. They take a four hour shift, the hardest to fill is midnight to four, four to eight is not easy to fill, I just worked that this morning, but I'm an early riser, so it doesn't have that huge an impact on my life. Also, in our area, we've previously had a seasonal overnight shelter during the winter, so last winter on those forty five nights we were often full at fifteen and our seasonal overnight shelter was full at twenty five. So we were sheltering 40 people. We went into this winter with no seasonal overnight shelter, and so we were scrambling to try to increase the amount of shelter in Montefiore and in Central Vermont in general. So up until the beginning of this week, the emergency cold weather shelter was the only seasonal overnight shelter and we operated eighteen nights through December and I believe eight of them were activated. Two of them were total activation and six of them were optional medications. So, we will get reimbursed for eight nights. We've operated for eighteen in December and January's already had a few. Last night's activation, a true activation. So, our shelter was full at 15, many nights through December, and people had nowhere else to go, which was scary. We had people, we had a woman in her second trimester of pregnancy, we had two gentlemen with colostomy bags, We have a gentleman who got severe phosbite of his hands, and it's been two weeks now, we've been bandaging him daily, it's slowly healing. He has deep second degree burns on a good bit of a cadence. There is just a lot of people trying to survive out there with a lot of problems. I have to say that the biggest problem that we deal with is alcoholism. There is very little We are like the last haven for people who are having difficulty with alcoholism. So, many of the people that we see in our shelter have not been able to maintain time in the hotels because of their alcoholism, they aren't able to be in permanent shelters because of their alcoholism and there's no place else for them to be. And we feel like we are just keeping them alive until that magic moment when they can reach their sobriety, but it's very difficult. And this is being done with community volunteers. With big hearts and we do training and BIH, Melissa did not mention the training that is available through this program, very good online videos that our volunteers are taking advantage of. So this week, we finally got open a nightly shelter that's being supervised by our local community action agencies and it's such a relief that I have to put in this plug for GA hotel vouchers. So organizing this nightly shelter in Montpelier for 15 individuals, It will allow daytime warming space. There will be two hours of the day when there is no daytime warming space, but otherwise they're covered for twenty four hours. They're moving through three churches in order to do this, to make this happen on their daily basis, and they have to keep track of that. In order to staff that and set it up, it costs twice as much as a hotel room for those 15 people during this season. And they have no base, they carry everything but somebody asked about personal belongings, they're dragging their bags with them because nobody has the ability to keep their personal belongings in our spaces. So can just ask

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: you to repeat that, Beth Anne? They're moving between three different churches in order to, you know, be able to have warm space. And I didn't understand the correlation between the cost. So if we had 15 people at $80 a night, are you saying that doing those those three churches, the cost for doing that is exceeding what fifteen fifteen people times $80 a night would be? Twice as much.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: Twice as much. Twice as much. And it's mostly staff. Is that something that is being paid for by the state? It is, we were able to get funding through Odeo, I believe it's HOT program.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: HOT program, yeah, it

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: would be HOT program. Because they said they could do it if they could add it on to somebody's currently existing HOT grant. So we had our choice of Capstone and the goods with Samaritan Dade and then Samaritan Dade was maxed out, so Capstone would need to do it.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: And so, the state's paying twice as much as they would if they were housing those folks. But I did hear you say that those are likely folks who local hotels might not take.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: Yes, they have, many have, I'll tell you this, that last year the population of people that we were dealing with every night are now mostly stable in hotels. Because of the outreach program that Good Samaritan Haven has been doing, they have been, and homelessness Vermont, getting them into hotels and continue with some support, they don't get, know, they don't really, they don't have anything near wraparound services, but a woman who was, I know many of these individuals who were heavily involved in substances, last winter, I mean I would be too if I were living like that, it is just so difficult to live that way. So they are sober this winter and they're staying in their hotel rooms and they're not getting kicked out. So, it's not everybody, but there's definitely a progression of hope there. Given half a chance, right? Yeah.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Go ahead, represent Steady.

[Rep. Brenda Steady]: It's weird, because I used to house the homeless at the state, and I house with alcoholism. Is it because they're not behaving they get kicked out? They again get houseless. Yes, they are excluded because of that. They're only being excluded when they don't behave. I just

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: wanted to make that clear, because people are going to think, oh my god, we aren't going to put somebody in, I mean, I'm not going to it.

[Rep. Brenda Steady]: On the other hand, we have, I can think of three off the top of my head, veterans that we are sheltering in the emergency cold weather shelter and now the nightly shelter, who are seriously involved with alcoholism and they have not been able to be at the veterans shelter because of behavior. They're not allowed at No, because they have a sobriety policy. Oh, okay, but hotels. The hotels, yeah. I don't want people

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: to think we're discriminating. No, it's alcohol here. Victim.

[Rep. Brenda Steady]: It's not. Being caused by their alcohols, and just keeping them from continuing to be here.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Okay, I just wanted that clear, I don't want people to think we're discriminating against somebody because they drink alcohol.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: So, one of the things that is sort of contemplated by Representative Maguire's bill on the new age five ninety four, is looking at some really kind of specialty services and supports, including specialty shelter kinds of supports. And I'm just curious what your take would be on, particularly individuals who have a substance use issue with alcohol or other substances. Right now, I've heard from shelters who have testified and said, We're not really equipped for Not everybody, because some are, some feel like they can take on challenge. But a number of them say, we're not really equipped. It would be better if somebody who, an organization or department that has training in co occurring mental health and substance use disorders, for instance, were actually running a shelter for individuals who maybe are challenged with those issues. And I'm just curious about You've had a lot of experience in this. And I'm just curious if you think that that would be an advisable approach to pursue or not. I

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: think there's a real need for full barrier shelters that can work. I think single room occupancy, people cannot coexist for a long period of time while they're fighting their own demons. And so they need their own space and we just don't have single room occupancy much anywhere. But a facility that offers that with services in the building, that were tailored to the needs of the individuals there, think could be very effective.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: We've struggled in this committee, I think, to feel like we're having any progress getting some of the other departments in the agency of human services engaged with this group of individuals. We heard yesterday from the secretary that as their executive team and all the commissioners of these various departments now are tackling essentially all the issues of the agency of human services. So thank you for that feedback. As we look to try to make some progress in this area this year, how we make decisions about where we utilize funding and for what purposes will be important. And I doubt that we will have the opportunity to increase any funding in this area. We'll be trying to hold on to what it is currently that's being allocated to this area. And I know the Department of Mental Health has its own struggles, but it does feel like that there would be some value to having folks with the mental health training and the backup of a designated agency in the Department of Mental Health to be able to step into this space. And they have the ability to help people transition as their lives improve. So,

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: thank you I for

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: think one other segment that could benefit from some tailored housing, a number of the individuals that we're seeing on a daily basis have lived their lives somewhere with neurodevelopmental differences and are mostly struggling with interpersonal communication and that keeps them from being employed, it keeps them from coexisting in relationships that would support them and all kinds of things, but they are not substance involved,

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: and

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: yet they're trying to exist in this congregate population that is moving around from space to space, the library, we have another way which is an alternative mental health home, day space, they're really struggling to coexist with some very challenging people. They can take care of themselves, they're not so needy that they're going to fall under the

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: They're not going to qualify for developmental disability services. Yeah. They're kind of in that between space of qualifying for support and not. Although, the state Supreme Court required the department to change that definition somewhat a couple of years back. And so the IQ limitations are a bit broader than they used to be. And I don't know to what extent. Again, that comes down to case management and people understanding the systems and being able to do that. And it doesn't always feel right, even though I vastly appreciate the role of volunteers in this, to put all of that on volunteers who are really just trying to make sure that people can get fed and changing the bandages on somebody who's got severe burns or helping somebody with their colostomy bag or their ostomy services. I'm amazed at the depth of the heart and soul of people, and amazed in the negative sense at the failure of our system. Yeah, go ahead, Representative Bishop, then Representative Cole.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: This doesn't get to the point that Jared just made about what we're asking people to do for supports in these shelters, but can you tell me, it sounds like there may be a mix of volunteer and paid, can you tell us a little bit more about that and if you do know how that plays out in the other five partner called other shelters, what they're relying upon?

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: I don't know a lot about the other shelters, so I can't really answer how they're structured. This year, for the first year, we are giving a siphon to a coordinator, and she's responsible for recruiting volunteers and assigning them shifts, trying to encourage them to engage with the training and she's the one who communicates with the community. We do call the fire department and the police department every night we're open. And we call the various shelters in another way, who are going to see people who might need shelter that night. We also have a website which is www.montpeliercoal.org so it's easy for people to remember and we post every day whether we're open or not, so it's pretty accessible for people to find out if we're going to be open. And the hospital case manager, somebody, you know, the emergency room case manager, whatever she's called, she knows about our website, the emergency room job can just look and see a group. So we do have that communication. But our stipended coordinator is in our budget for the grant, but we only get paid for eight nights out of 18, so far, in December, so.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Go ahead, that's eighteen nights

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: for 15 people. We've operated eighteen nights through December, we've had somewhere in February and January, but thinking of the billing cycle, which I've just done the report on, we have operated for eighteen nights and eight of those we will get paid for out of the grand. Eight of them? Yeah, it's 1,200 a day. You have 15 people? We have 15 people, So every by $80 No, no, no. What's the $80? The $80 what pays for

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: a hotel. That's hotels. Oh, that's hotels.

[Rep. Anne B. Donahue]: I've gotten confused on that.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: Each site has its own budget of what they ask for. So, we ask to pay our coordinator $40 an hour, and we get paid that on activated nights. She's doing it for all the so nights she's not working on $40 an hour, for us. She's working for the state for $40 and she's working on, let me tell you,

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: she's working it. Oh no, I've gotten confused, so.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: Then do also stipend an operations manager. About $40 an hour? No, it's less than that, but that actually cares for, you know, figures out if we have the right supplies, if the facility is having any problems doing the laundry,

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: so things that are like So, Suzanne, I just want to make sure that everybody's clear. So based upon the group of faith organizations that have come together in Montpelier to provide services, you said, Okay, we'll be open anytime it's 10 degrees above, but the state grant that is paying. And so far in December, you were 18 of those nights qualified. And then the state says, but we're only gonna pay for those that are at either minus 10 or zero. So eight of them qualified. Through the generosity of volunteers, the other ten nights are being covered, but the state is not paying for them.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: So that's when I did it, it

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: was 32 degrees or less. So that's changed. Now it's way down to 10?

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Zero. No, it's down to zero. Zero. Oh, okay. So is it still 32 degrees or less? No, it's zero.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: Zero degrees or less. Wow. How about hotels?

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Is it freezing? Winter weather provisions are just date based.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: December 1 to April 1.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Yeah, December to March 30 Okay, but the state is still 32 degrees.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: No, no, no. That changed.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: Oh, it used to be 32 degrees and for the motel, it's by date. It's no longer managed by the temperature and

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Oh, I bet like it was. I'm sorry, representative Cole. So

[Melissa Vittenden]: now it's just back up.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Zero degrees?

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: It's at zero degrees.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: Okay.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Yeah. I didn't know that.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: And it's at zero degrees optionally, depending upon the staffing and the situation according to what Melissa was saying earlier. But they're required to open at minus 10. Representative Cole.

[Rep. Esme Cole]: Okay, you. Thank you, Beth Anne. This is really, really powerful. That's why, as always, I love seeing your face in here whenever you wanted. It is so insightful, candidly speaking. So obviously, we just started this week, we had the Bill introduction from Eric Maguire about five ninety four. Really, I'm going to value your insight on this very specific language and I don't, on the spot, not ask me at all for you to sound in. But a couple of things that I think just to pay attention to as we move throughout this session on this particular bill, I would love there are very specific rules in this bill regarding program participation, because now we're hoping it'll be a real program. That's one of the end goals. But in particular on page seventeen and eighteen, we talk about time limits, we talk about other rules. And so as someone who lived and breathes beyond time limits of program participation, I think your insight on these particular pages will be very, very helpful. I think I'll leave it at that. But those very particular criteria where they're tangible numbers on something that is very individualized circumstance,

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: trying to

[Rep. Esme Cole]: bridge the gap between those two. So I really appreciate your insight.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: I haven't read the bill, but I'll definitely be taking a close look at it.

[Rep. Esme Cole]: Thank you.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: I mean, know that the time limit of eighty days that has been existing for GA housing outside of the labor season, there's no reality to what, to anything. I mean it's sometime, maybe what, twenty years ago, that was how long it took for people to get housed, when they became unhoused, but it's just nowhere near reality that's closer than two years. So, I will look at that. Thank you. As we proceed there.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Any other questions for the witness?

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Thank you so much for coming in, Beth Anne. Thank you for all the work.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: Thanks.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: We have to do something.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Agreed.

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: You know, and I think last year when I testified to mention the emergency call pledge, representative Maguire gave me his card and said, call me if you need somebody to volunteer. Oh, that's

[Melissa Vittenden]: nice. And

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Representative Maguire was sorry he wasn't able to be here for your testimony this afternoon or this morning, but he had to leave a little bit early today. So he wanted me to extend his apologies. Okay, folks. Hold on one second.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: Please by.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: Please stand by. Exactly. I need to see what it is we're doing this afternoon. Okay. So we are going to postpone our vote on H545 until Tuesday because we're hearing from the judiciary committee this afternoon. To be honest, I haven't spoken with the chair about they were taking testimony this morning on the bill. So I'm not really sure other than they had some questions about the immunity clause, which is what they're focused on down there. So we will hear from representative Lamoille about that after lunch. And so there may be changes that they're recommending. The health care committee did not recommend any changes. They were good with what we did. And so that's why I'm postponing it. And representative Maguire wanted to be able to vote on it, and he needed to be absent this afternoon. We will vote on that on Tuesday. I know it's like this sort of never ending, changing the date. Yes, sir.

[Rep. Todd Nielsen]: I'd like to vote on the Tuesday also, but I have a dentist appointment in November.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Saying to me it would- Okay, so

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: it will be the afternoon on Tuesday. Okay, we'll be here. Okay, yeah, because we have caucuses and the house floor on Tuesday morning, so it'll be the afternoon.

[Rep. Todd Nielsen]: I get texted

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: you then. Okay. Thank you, Todd, I appreciate that.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: Was wondering

[Rep. Esme Cole]: if I missed

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: it. Sorry.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: No. No. I told you I would text you. Everybody's watching. Yeah.

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: I was watching.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: And Anne will be back sitting to my right here on Tuesday. So we should have a full complement of people. So that'll be good. Okay? So I just wanted to let you know what was going on with regard to that. And I know I sent it on email, but I just wanted to extend the Appropriations Committee appreciation. They were very appreciative of the work that our committee had done on the budget adjustment. We uncovered some issues, and they're gonna take further testimony from the administration on some of the issues that we have uncovered. So that is good. They had some questions about the designated agency systems reform language. That came in relatively late to our process. So we did not have a chance to take testimony from the department about that. We only got that from the designated agencies. So that's just letting you know where things are at. Appropriations committee expects to vote out the budget adjustment by next Friday. And so they'll be meeting with the administration, making adjustments, and we'll see that on the floor the following week. So not next week, but the following week. And I expect, because they usually do have a caucus of the whole opportunity for people to ask any questions once they have it out of committee. So you can probably look for that to happen maybe on Tuesday or Wednesday of the following week. So we're going to hear from Representative Lalonde, and then we're going to spend a little bit of time, well, obviously discussing any potential changes that Representative Lalonde may bring, but also spending a little bit of time on H594 this afternoon to just get the general sense after we've had the overview of the things that resonate with you, things that you say, I need more information, or this will be really difficult for me to support. This is just going to be open conversation. I want to be open about there are meetings that are happening outside of the room about this, both with the administration wanted to meet about it. And Eric and I met with several members of the administration about the bill. And we also met with members of the advocacy community as well. Just hearing feedback. We're taking in feedback as part of the process. And we'll be hearing from witnesses along the way. And as I mentioned, as we got an example of yesterday, we heard from witnesses that we don't ordinarily hear from who are being impacted by the issue of homelessness in our state. We're going to have more of that. We're going to hear from libraries, if you can believe that. I think you heard Beth Ann mention libraries, people. They're serving as often a soft landing space for people when it's very cold out or very hot, I will tell you, if it's an air conditioned library. I know that's happened in my community. So we're going to be hearing from people we haven't ordinarily heard from. We are also going to next week start our budget presentations from the Agency of Human Services. So I'm gonna be working with Laurie on how we line that up. And obviously, we'll hear from the secretary of human services first, have her outline that. Yes.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: Can I just share a thought about the budget following up on yesterday's testimony from secretary? I find interesting and probably it's helpful for them the way that they're talking about things in a more combined way or looking at things. I'm wondering how that will play out budget presentations. You're

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: gonna see all of them, but I don't know if we are or not. That's gonna be a scheduling nightmare for Laurie, I think.

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: But if it's too combined in the way they give the presentation, it seems like we won't get to the depth of-

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: To the depth So

[Rep. Doug Bishop]: we'll see how it plays out.

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: So related to that, yesterday, the speaker organized a chair and vice chair meeting with the appropriations committee. And so all of us met and chair Shai and Vice Chair Feltis talk to us about what they are hoping our policy committees dig into with regard to our work with the budget and our testimony from the administration. So they I might have it in my inbox. I don't know. I haven't checked inbox yet today. But they are sending along, which I will share when I get it, suggested topics and questions that they would like us to look at as we develop our recommendations. And as Chair Shai pointed out, our committee is always the most complicated committee because one, we have one of the largest parts of state government and two, we got a lot of moving parts in this committee, as you know, in your individual budget areas. So I'll hand that out. And I'll also move it up in your inbox, but back in October, representative Harrison represents

[Rep. Golrang "Rey" Garofano]: I

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: sent an email to bless you. An email to all state departments, giving them a heads up that we are gonna be looking at not just the ups and downs, which is what they normally done, that we're going to be looking in much more detail at the programs, the services, wanting to evaluate how are you evaluating whether or not these are the services that we should be spending the money on, etcetera. So we had done a bit of that in our committee, probably more than other committees had done. So it'd be a little bit more intense for us, but it'll be along the lines that I had said earlier this week. So I think that our committee is well poised to take on that challenge. We can do it. We just did it with BAA. As I said, they were appreciative and impressed with the level of information that we were able to glean out of in a short period of time. So, we'll have more time on the budget, but it's a bigger task as well. So, it's going to require some You'll see open times in our agenda for you to be able to meet with people, both within the administration and with community partners and advocates to hear their stories. And remember, I'm going to be relying on you to bring forth your recommendations for who we will hear from directly for the full committee. So we're going to be doing some scheduling magic. Right, Lori?

[Dr. Beth Ann Maier]: So

[Rep. Theresa Wood]: thank you all, and we'll see you back here at one.

[Melissa Vittenden]: Thank you, Laurie.