Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: We have a little bit realized.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Alright, everyone. We are back after a break while others were addressing other bills and other committees. So, we're going to get back started on the conversations around the

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: proposals of

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: amendment. And so, I guess, I'm trying

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: to recall which one were we focusing on?

[Mary-Katherine Stone (Member)]: Adequate expansion.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And we have those posted to the page correct.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Okay. Thank you.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: There you see the one that's titled Medicaid amendment. Alright. So open the table up.

[Mary-Katherine Stone (Member)]: Were we done with the walk through with the council on both of the sides?

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Wanted to double Unless somebody wants

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: to hear from council. Just wanted to make sure.

[Mary-Katherine Stone (Member)]: But they've shared and hammered in down what my concern was, so if this has expanded, that we should have equity in coverage, especially for rural Vermont, which is just unfortunately covered by Medicaid. I don't think it's fair that ophthalmology would get Medicaid coverage for these procedures, and if it was done by an optometrist doing the same procedure, that it wouldn't be covered. I would say it's friendly, and I would

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: love to make sure that

[Mary-Katherine Stone (Member)]: Vermonters are not going into more medical debt.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: I totally empathize with that. I will say that I think this language itself is a bigger conversation for her because it's going to require an appropriation and also address Medicaid. So that's our health care committee. So as I said before, this bill has two more stops on the train after us. And I think those are good conversations to have with those committees of jurisdiction as the vote.

[Mary-Katherine Stone (Member)]: My concern is that that was the same thing that I said in healthcare and at what point does it become, because there will always be, I'm afraid there's always going to be an excuse. So it will go to Ways and Means and they'll say, this is a tax committee, we don't deal with healthcare and then this bill will end up being passed and there'll be a very big unintended consequence.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: We could also address it when the body returns in January, that's the implementation date of 2020. I was

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: just going to move that in the interest of getting the underlying bill through, that we end discussion on the amendments and vote them down. Suppose we vote unfavorable on the amendments.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Well, we would have to do these one at a time. Okay. So are you making a motion to find what we're discussing right here, the s 64 stone amendment, Medicaid amendment by twenty one one point one? Unfavorable.

[Kate Nugent (Member)]: So does that mean a yes vote is

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: against it?

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Is against the amendment.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And these are strongholds. So it would be a thumb vote. So a thumb vote would be What

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: are the strongholds? What's that? Duffels. Yeah, do a vote. Straight

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: vote? It's not a vote Denver report because you're just deciding whether you're doing it. Correct.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes, yes, yes. I I guess we could do one by one, yay nay, but it's the same as favorable or unfavorable thing. Revenue?

[Chea Waters Evans (Ranking Member)]: For me, this makes this bill have the guardrails that make me feel comfortable.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: So I'm in favor of both these amendments.

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: Byrd?

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: So yes, Reverend.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: I would also agree with these amendments. Think it brings us closer to compromising collaborations, collaboration between these two groups that are so obviously not willing to come together right now. I think we talked about this with the ethics commission in the Secretary of State yesterday, literally putting in language to tell them that by next year, please go up to the cafeteria and figure it out. And this has been going on for years. So if we can take any steps closer to bringing this together, I think that's really important.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And I've shared that frustration over the three and a half years that I've worked on this. Yeah, and I think we shouldn't be pushing through a

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: bill that still doesn't have these two groups together.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: What I'm saying is, because of how it has assembled to multiple committees before, that I wanted both the bill out today, these conversations were about money, and this conversation was more about the healthcare committee. And the healthcare committee already voted the bill out to

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: me. I

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: would like to see this bill move. I understand we're on a really short block. As we often are this time of year. This is nothing unusual. And I really feel like the Appropriations Committee will have something to say about this Medicaid piece. And I have a degree of comfort in knowing that the effective date of the underlying bill is 2028. So I feel like no one in this building would leave a giant hole in terms of consequences like this, because we're pretty focused in this building on Medicaid coverage and making sure that Vermont has a very robust Medicaid coverage. So, I would be inclined to be a thumbs up, which would be to find this in favorable.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Instead of doing thumbs right now, because this is such a more dense conversation, even though it's the same sort of result, I would do this as a yay, ay. So, a nay, and I guess we can still call the role in a traditional form, but not use the sheet, or you could use the sheet, guess. Most of you have to submit it. Clear again, yes. Votes it down, no. Is against the proposed Right. But it's one and then the other, right? Yes, we're doing one first. We're doing the Medicaid. Medicaid first.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: And just for process questions, is that up to the discretion of the chair to decide how we're gonna take the vote, thumbs or by voice?

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: As far as I know.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Okay. Pretty much every time. I think that's true.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Any further discussion on the proposal of amendment? Motion on the table that it's to find it unfavorable. So a yes is unfavorable. A no is

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: Clerk will call the roll.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Boyden? No. Representative Coffin?

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: Yes.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Hooper? No. Representative Morgan? Yes. Representative Nugent? No. Representative Pinsonault? Yes. Representative Scoille?

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Stone? No. Representative Wallace Evans? No. Representative Byron?

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes. So what my account, that's 65.

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: Okay.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And now we will do the same for the following question, which is, is that the one titled Medical Practice?

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Medical Practice.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Any discussion? Anyone like to call a motion?

[Mary-Katherine Stone (Member)]: No.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: Understood. Drop Coffin.

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: I move that we find this amendment unfavorable as well in the interest of trying to get the parent bill moved forward.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Okay. So is that the motion is to fight it unfavorable? Find it unfavorable.

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: Clerk, call the roll.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Lieutenant Boyden, no. Lieutenant Coffin?

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: Yes.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Lieutenant Hooper? Yes. Representative Cooper? No. Representative Morgan? Yes. Representative Nugent? No. Representative Pinsonault? Yes. Representative Philly?

[Philip Jay Hooper (Member)]: Yes.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Stone? No. Representative Waters Evans? No. Representative Barrong?

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes. Six five.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: Now we make a motion to find the bill favorable. Well, I was going

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: to also open that back up for conversation. Yes, a part of it.

[Kate Nugent (Member)]: I have struggled a lot with this bill. I understand and always wanna support the Secretary of State's office and OPR. I really trust them and that they know what they're doing. I understand that we are once again in the middle of two important entities that don't agree with each other. And I've really tried to keep my focus this whole time on what we have control over, which is the OPR portion of it. That being said, I think, I'm not ready. And I found out, forty five minutes ago, that we were even voting on this today, because when I looked at the agenda before I came to work this morning, it was not on our agenda that this was going to be voted on this afternoon. And I can't It should not be a surprise to any of us in this room that we were voting on this today. So even if it's something that I somehow missed it, whenever it was posted, I just I can't vote. I feel like we shouldn't even be voting for this. But if someone is gonna force us to vote for this, which it really sounds like it's happening, I can't vote for this right now. It's just, we need more time. We can't say it's been seven years, it's gotta get out the door. It's been here a long time. We've on our committee for two weeks. We talked about public records for two months and then did nothing with that conversation. So something like this to talk about it for two weeks and then be like, come on, clock ticking, we gotta get it out of here. It doesn't settle well with me. And it's just, I want to support OPR. I know this is really important to a lot of people. I'm not like never a yes on this. And I think Mary- Rep Stone's amendment started a good conversation. If we could take the time, I know we're running short on time, but if we could take the time to hear a little more testimony about how maybe Secretary of State's office and OPR feels about these amendments or some other things, I would feel more comfortable with it. But the way it stands right now, I can't yes this. Seems I don't like feeling like I've been bullied into something, and that's how I feel right now, that I'm being pushed

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: to vote on something I'm not ready to vote for. So in that case, then I feel like my only option could be no.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: Correct, Nugent?

[Chea Waters Evans (Ranking Member)]: I feel it's a really hard bill, but I'm hopeful that maybe one of these amendments or both of them could be added as it goes on its way. But I think the way it is right now, I feel like I have a responsibility to the bill as it is. There's just too many unanswered questions or lack of consensus around some of the most important parts, to me anyway. So, yeah, not going to vote for it.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: I'm going to support moving the bill. I think today was a very prime example of how prickly this place can be. I think that we did put in at least a couple of half an hour segments of discomfort to try and get this thing more right. I think I heard sort of similar calls for process that we've heard in other teams in this building. And this is a protracted disagreement that goes back decades. My father used to be the chair of this committee and was even marvelous at the helm. You had the acrimony, as Hayward put it. This is an ugly conversation. It's the nexus between toxic interests and politicians' responsibility to make tough decisions about professional regulation. And I think when I hear arguments about jurisdiction, I think that they usually endorse an issue, pick any issue, government operations probably does have jurisdiction. So I just want to encourage Well, I guess I want to say I applaud Mary-Katherine Stone for pressing the matter on process. And I think she did so well thoroughly. I appreciate her opportunity to do so, being honored. And I look forward to the body at large getting to weigh in on these same questions. We all are lawmakers, votes, get the chance to exercise those. So, I think basically what happened today is you had dissenting members of this committee who never did get a chance to express that. So it was sort of a quasi confusing back and forth between two forces that are not moving. And we had to figure out how best to weigh in. Think we maybe did do that okay today. Did it all good well. I'm gonna support this because of some of the similar reasons to like what Mike Morgan said, he decided four years ago. I think I probably decided around that time ago too on this issue. Expansion, I think, is probably the right thing to do, but these points are very important for not just a couple of committees to decide on and the rest of us to trust that they made the right decision. Maybe they had a slotting process too. I think that we can all learn from each other's perspectives on these things. And I agree with our newest member about, there could be a middle ground sweet spot that some other new heads can explore and we'll send it in the name of that process.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: I really appreciate that number. And I just want to speak to the table as I'll go through this. A bunch of cannabis bill, every bill we voted out of this committee of the unanimous, even that was only nine-two. This is by far the most contentious conversation that we've had, but I don't think it's made contentious. I think we've done what this body was constructed to do. We had engaged conversation, been very respectful to each other's voices, and we manage ourselves in a very professional and dignified way. So I don't want to say that out loud.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: Robert Hooper, I think we've beat it to death. I'll make a motion that we find S-sixty four as currently written favorable to vote for.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: There's a motion for S-sixty four That's passed by Senate. That favorable final comment, Rep. Chea.

[Mary-Katherine Stone (Member)]: I was told that it didn't matter if I voted yes or no. It didn't matter if I was in the room because the bill would stand on its own. I'm gonna stand here because I represent people who don't have the privilege to be here. And a lot of those people are the patients who inspired me to run. And I really appreciate y'all. I hope you know that I truly love and respect every single one of you sitting at this table. And what I did today was try to force dialogues. It doesn't happen a lot here. And I know when I said I feel muzzled, some people raise their eyebrows and got defensive. That shouldn't, I'm trying to push. I'm not gonna be here for much longer, but I'm trying to create space where I can. So thanks for letting me do that. I hope that I can pass the baton to y'all and you continue to do that because the people we represent deserve that. So I am going to vote no on this, shocking to no one. Sorry, those of y'all at home, just want to, you know, reveal it. It's a surprise, it's suspense. But I hope we learn from this moment. When I'm not here, you can reflect back on this and keep pushing forward in a way that makes this building work better for the people who are out there who don't get the privilege to sit in these seats.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: Amen, Deborah.

[Mary-Katherine Stone (Member)]: Very well said.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Entered discussion.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: No.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: Thank you, everyone. The clerk will call the roll.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Boyden, no. Representative Coffin?

[VL Coffin IV (Member)]: Yes.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Mister Hango. Yes. Representative Hooper.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: Yes.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Morgan. Yes. Representative Nugent. No. Representative Pinsonault.

[Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault (Member)]: Yes. Representative Scooley.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Stone. No. Representative Warren Evans? No. Representative Birong?

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes. I will be the reporter of the vote.

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Seven four zero.

[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: All right, everyone. Seriously, a deep gratitude for this one. It was not going to be easy. And thank you.

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: No matter what

[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: year

[Robert Hooper (Member)]: we've got.