Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: We are live.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Alright, welcome back. It is little bit before 03:30. On Wednesday, April 8, we are doing an introductory walk through and witness testimony on page nine five four in ag relating to approval of an amendment to the charter of the town of Stowe. We have with us representative who is the sponsor of the amendment. How are you doing, sir?

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: Oh, well, chairman Bayron. I don't see a vice chair, angle, and I don't see a ranking member, Chea. But, committee, thank you. Here comes our vice chair on queue. Vice chair Hango and chair Bayron, thank you for the invitation. For the record, Jed Lipsky, representative from Stowe, Lamoille 1 District. And as some of you heard, I I gave a preview two weeks ago of what this h nine fifty four was hoping to achieve when there was testimony on local option taxes in Burlington, and there was a lot of dialogue. And I chose that was an moment to express why our community has planned to introduce a bill to increase our local option taxes and our women meals taxes. And I got a lot of feedback, and I explained a number of the reasons what motivated our community. So I I'm gonna briefly talk about some of the reasons, but I also wanted to introduce some guests here. And before I get started on that, I wanna thank representative Yacovone who happily co sponsored the bill, and he's here in committee. And representative Sari Lamoille, who also co sponsored, but is not able to be with us at this time. But also from the community, wanna introduce the chair, Ethan Carlson, who's now chair of the select board. A I'm gonna I should have started. I guess highest rank goes last. So, Will Frecky is an assistant to the town manager, longtime servant in the town of Stowe, Joe Sable Courtney, who's a select board member, and then our esteemed Jeez. Town manager, Charles Sadford. He may be just sitting on the sideline as will will, but they would really present. Joe will follow me, and then Ethan will get into the the real nuts and bolts of the whys and the hows and possibilities. So with that said, few thoughts that you should understand. STOW is a regional job and economic center. STOW is able to invest in itself, both the region and state benefit with new jobs and increased tax revenue. Local option taxes do not reduce the fiscal capacity of the state. In fact, it adds to it by increasing the tax base. It is not a zero sum game. The state and the town can help each other in this regard. The cost and demands on municipalities are going up, and municipalities need fiscal capacity. A dollar raised on the local option taxes is a dollar that doesn't need to be raised in property taxes. Increased property taxes, increased costs for landowners, and also for renters. Respect the will of the voters. Municipal voters should have the right to choose how they tax themselves. Stowe has to demand elasticity to raise consumption taxes and visitors reasonably expect it. When STOW adopted local option taxes in previous years, revenue increased, and there was no observable impact on demand. Tourist towns have disproportionate demands on services and infrastructures infrastructures due in part to the number of visitors. Consumption taxes allow visitors contribute to contribute additional tax revenue to support those services and infrastructure. Also, visitors expect the town to have quality services and infrastructure in order to make an attractive place to visit. And as I pointed out in my remarks, two weeks ago on a house floor. There are many towns, arts included, by our neighboring town. But Morristown have had to make the very, you know, discouraging consider the option of literally closing or giving up town roads in order to save costs. So Okay. Chair Bayron, with that, if anyone has any questions for me, happy to answer them. Or if not, I'll turn it over to, Joe. K.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Yes, please. Rev Morgan. So, Jed, what this is a tough question. I'll tell you, friends. I'm not here, Okay, it's all good. I'm gonna throw you a fastball. Probably not down the middle. But anyway, no, it's not, it's not anus. So, one question that will come up in the process, I believe, and don't think I speak for myself, we have to be cognizant of, as you're well aware, the legislature gave carte blanche to the state for 1%. This would be an outlier, of course. And, what has the town looked at? What I mean, you've got I've seen the slide deck. I've looked at that. But what would you say is the number one compelling reason that we should consider an outlier? Is that a fair question? I don't know. I mean, I think because you would be the outlier in the entire state. And it could be anybody answer that. Somebody's got a great answer. I I cannot. And I'm not saying negative. I'm saying it's it's the. Yeah. We'll do

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: it in turn. I mean, you can

[Chair Matthew Birong]: ask a question of him. We can ask a question again later. So we'll do we'll do representative Lipsky. We're gonna

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: do council for the words of

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: the day. So we'll

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: probably gather Morgan, why is this critical? If you look on the CAX traffic maps alerts Mhmm. It is solid red from North Of Waterbury to the North End Of Stowe during foliage season, often during, the holiday periods and ski season. So we have a lot of stress. There is no town in the state that drives tourism to the point of our community.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Which is not an October, Saturday.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: So

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: Oh, gee. Oh, yes. Yes. And unfortunate I understand. It's a double edged sword. These visitors do drive the economy and support it. And at the same time, they also stress the infrastructure. We have a one way road to the to the mountain. It's way in and out in the wintertime from usually early November to early May. Mhmm. It's a two lane blacktop. We have now going through side communities of the Moscow Road to Nebraska Valley and then over Loose Hill. So there are a lot of infrastructure challenges, and we we have deteriorating roads, culverts, bridges, intersections. And I haven't even asked the select board about this, but we need pedestrian traffic controls in the summer, on weekends, and autumn. Because the way the parking and the bump outs are and people with telephone in their hand, they got a cup of designer coffee in the other hand. They got a designer dog wrapped around their elbow, and they're trying to take pictures

[Chair Matthew Birong]: of the

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: It's a single spire of on any church in the state of Vermont. Yeah. We love our town. It's beautiful, but the rest of the world figured out it's beautiful, and they like to come. Yeah. It has to do with we have high demands and taxpayers because of our high grand list and other factors. Mhmm. The homesteaders in particular have had it. You know, they they're leaving. They can't afford to stay here. And I think I respect the select board leadership. We're trying to create a vehicle in the form of the instrument of LOTs Mhmm. To help relieve some of the at least the municipal portion of of the tax burden, which is growing and it's other needs Mhmm. On top of the education funding, which when when it was gonna be 12, it was 18 in stone. It was gonna be one and a half. Bigger foot. It was 10 in stone. So the taxing capacity for town is limited for the owners to handle this additional burner burdens. So that's an overview. Yeah. Ethan and others can get into some of the the details. Yes. And sure. Been working for the last few years as we've recognized these growing challenges. Yep. And we also know the challenges of the state.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Yeah. You know, get it. You know. I management, other people's money. And because you have

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: a lot of out of state,

[Chair Matthew Birong]: out of town firms, like, I certainly understand. We have a lot of But and then but nevertheless, we still

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: have to consider that outlier component and just that's that's the fastball. Understand that. Yeah. Thank you. Are there other questions? Seeing no hands. Alright then. Relieve, sir. Thank you, chair. And I I'd like to invite, Joe Samuel. We're gonna we're gonna go

[Chair Matthew Birong]: with council first for the words on the page and then for the gallery. Yes. But thank you for that. Yeah, sir. Thank you. Good afternoon, committee members.

[Legislative Counsel (name not stated)]: The larger, the development Legislative Council. We should have the as introduced or stage nine fifty one, which is a charter change to the town of Stowe. This bill proposes to approve an amendment to the charter of the town of Stowe to authorize the town to impose a two percent local option tax on sales room, meals, and alcohol alcoholic beverages. So section one is our boilerplate language that you'll probably now recognize for all charters. Simply states, general assembly approves the amendment of the charter of the town of Stowe as set forth in this act. The voters of the town approved the proposals of amendment on 03/03/2026. Section two

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: where we

[Legislative Counsel (name not stated)]: have a substantive part of the bill. This will add a new section to the charter to be nine zero four titled Local Option Tax. Simply two subdivisions. The first people say, the select board is authorized to impose a 2% local option tax on sales, rooms, meals, and alcoholic beverages. The tax imposed pursuant to this section shall be collected and administered by the department of taxes pursuant to 24 b s a one thirty eight. That's the statute where we find, really everything else having to do with local option taxes as they apply generally to all municipalities, this town cities and villages. Subdivision B states the local option tax authorized by this section supersedes in local option tax previously adopted by as adopted and approved by the town. And the effective date section three of this act shall take effect on passage.

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: You cut and dry? As far as the words.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Yeah. Any questions for counsel? Thank you, sir. You're welcome. And now you. Now me. It's been a little violent.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: I know. Well, it's been a couple months.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: I know.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: Good to see you.

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: Good to see you too.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: Thanks. Good afternoon, chairman Birong and members of the committee. My name is Joe Sable Courtney. I live in Stowe, and I am my in my sixth year of the Stowe on the Stowe Select Board. I'm 75 years old. I'm single. I'm still working, and I rent my home. I've lived in Vermont for thirty six years. Stow has been my forever home since 1990. My work has focused on tourism for both Stow and Vermont, international marketing for Stowe, I've worked with the Vermont Department of Tourism and Marketing, and now with Discover New England promoting the region globally. I also served as Farmers Ambassador for Cabot Creamery Cooperative representing Vermont's farmer owners. I've served on the boards of the Stowe Free Library, Vermont Arts Council, and Lyric Theater, and cofounded the Stowe Theater Guild and the Stowe Weekend of Hope, which was entered into the congressional record by senator Bernie Sanders. I share this not to list accomplishments, but to make one point. I have spent much of my life investing in Stowe and in Vermont. And yet, like many people in our community, I'm now facing real uncertainty about whether I can remain in a place I've called home for decades. Stowe's success as a destination has brought enormous benefits, but also real pressures. The proposal before you is a modest, locally approved tool to help address those impacts. It reflects a decision by Stowe voters to take responsibility for balancing the benefits of tourism with the needs of the community that sustains it. Importantly, this proposal is also a win for Vermont. Under the existing local option tax structure, the state retains 25% of the revenue, generated supporting statewide needs while allowing communities like Stowe to address our local impacts. Without tools like this, it becomes increasingly difficult for longtime residents, workers, and retirees to remain part of the community they help build. It's unlikely that I'll be able to continue living in Stowe when I can no longer work. Sorry. This is not just my story. It is becoming a common story. This proposal is a practical, measured step, one that aligns with existing Vermont policy and reflects the will of local voters. I respectfully ask for your support. Thank you for your time, and especially thank you for your commitment to this state.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. You do so much yourself, want to acknowledge that too, just having been on mute for years now. Yeah, any questions?

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: Can I have the count of the vote that was done in March? Do we have the have it in favor?

[Chair Matthew Birong]: That'll probably be in our share point folder.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: We'll make sure It not.

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: It is not.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Do want

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: me to wait?

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Yeah, when you I can come up with that testimony. Yeah.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: I couldn't find it.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: It's on the other?

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: No, I think it's because it's noon maybe.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Okay. I believe it's touching.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: It's okay. So yes, wrap this up.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: Looking at this slide, it still has to be the most expensive, highest tax contributor to the state of the art. Am I right? Far as

[Chair Matthew Birong]: sales tax attributes are young. Trying to hear

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: I question, and instead everybody, I mean anybody, I guess, is Stowe has to be the highest contributor in sales tax at the 1% in anybody in the state or not. Am I correct?

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: I think there's a couple of towns higher. Could you identify yourself for the record, please? My name is Charles Saffin. I'm the Stone Town manager. There's a couple of towns higher in Rooms, Meals, and Alcohol, and Sales, but Snow is the one contributor by far the state education funding in the state of Vermont at 44,000,000. We can follow-up with that information to show contextually how those things how we compare in the, different tax categories, vis a vis other municipalities of the police's committee.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: More information, better. Yes.

[Legislative Counsel (name not stated)]: That help, Representative?

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Any other questions for Joe? Thank you. Thank you for your service. Please join us. Thank you.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: My pleasure.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Alright. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you, chairman Byron.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: to all the committee for for having us, down. So my name is Ethan Carlson. I'm the chair of the STOE Select board. Quick background on me. I I grew up, you know, I've been I I can't technically call myself from Vermont because I moved here when I was one. It's not my fault. Sorry. I know. Right? It's tough. It's a

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: tough miss.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: It's a tough miss. Right? And there's there's more to that story, but for another day because we were already behind schedule. But lifelong Vermont, I grew up in Chittenden or I'm sorry, in Addison County, actually, in Whiting, Vermont. You know, one of my fun facts and now that I'm getting, you know, into the political world is I was actually you know, Amanda Brigham was my neighbor. So act 60 is sort of now sort of I see it on all sides. So I'm certainly very familiar with with the challenges of the state. So, you know, proud product of, you know, Middlebury Union High School. Left the state as most younger people, although I was looking at my gray beard, and I don't know that I can tell myself young anymore, but do. You know, started a career, met my wife, and then we moved back in 2013, to to Stone. We've called that home, and, we're thrilled with that. Yeah. You know, I think it's relevant to, you know, the conversation just, you know, understanding kind of the layout of the state, but also what brings you know, we have a overall challenge in the state. It's, from a from a population perspective, from an income perspective. And, you know, being on the side of people overturned, you I know, think still has a lot to offer in that regard and is one of the things that we look at community, we're really excited about. Not sure how I can best see the slides here. Should I just ask you to advance as we go? Oh, you're doing it. Oh, well, I'll train. I'll give you the yeah. So I wanted to so, wanted to start off. You know, we're here to talk about taxes, obviously, and that's our charter men. But really at the core of it, I think Joe did a fantastic job hitting at the core. But what we're really working towards is how do we preserve this community? How do we preserve this community that I move back to? Because we identified with the lifestyle, the community, the the the environment our kids would grow up and all those things. How do we balance the challenges that we're facing with, you know, maintaining this sense of community? Still has things going for it. Right? We have, I always joke whenever we're debating something with them with with Vale and with the mountain, they can't take the mountain with them if if, you know, they don't like our position on something. But so we have things, but we have challenges. And, you know, maintaining that community, you know, I think I have to

[Chair Matthew Birong]: give credit to to Charles, our our town manager, and

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: the credit we're the community building business. So we're here, you know, with this, idea was to bring a constructive way on how we can alleviate some of the burden and do it in a way that is a win win across the

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: board. Wanna go on

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: to the next slide as well? You know, I think that while, you know, we we we recognize, and I certainly do, that still has the what what was that? I like that. The Hamptons on ice. Yeah. I like that. That's a new one. Haven't heard that one. That's a good one. I like that. I like that. So I look. We recognize the image of Stowe. It's not not lost, though. We see it every day. We deal with it in foliage season. We deal with it in tourism. It is it is great. Our economy is strong, but it creates pressures. Right? The idea that we have 49% of Stowe residents are paying over 30%, of their income on towards housing. You know, that's sort of that threshold in the state. That's 25% higher than the rest of the

[Chair Matthew Birong]: state on average. You're hearing it from from from from, my colleague, Joe, who's who's a renter. It's whether if you're

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: a renter, you own. The pressure is high. Right? We have the same challenges around affordability, cost of living, housing, all the challenges that the whole state does. And what we heard, we had our legislative delegation in in the fall, and we you know, a lot of that centered on the education fund, and I have a slide on that and our contributions thing. And the challenge that it presents to us is the burden and the pressure. Like, we're gonna talk about the elasticity we see we have in sales tax. We don't feel that we have that on the property tax side. Right? If you're a homesteader, you are getting pushed out right now. Right? You're the increases that that was mentioned that when it's 1% statewide, it's 10%. If it's 5%, it's 15 and so. We just had a major reassessment, so we kinda got double whammy two years ago. It's creating real pressure. When we move back, my kids' classes my three kids, I guess, should mention that in the school system here. Their classes grew every year for five years when we first moved here. More kids. The last five years, it's declining. I think I don't know the statistics. I wanna be careful, but it's it's almost half of what it was in the kindergarten classes today. People can afford to live there. So that's what's at the core of what we're trying to do. We're trying to how do we build this community? How do we continue to be a driver for the state and for the county, and finance? So if you wanna flip on to the next slide. Sales, you know, we have challenges. I'll get to where we need to spend the money and what's the infrastructure and all the things. Lot of stuff going on in here. But the gist of it is if you're going out to a resort community, we're listening to how to, you know, Vale, Aspen, Pelly. Right? You expect to pay a higher tax rate. We do have tax capacity. If you compare Stowe today, you know, with the local option tax plus the the sales tax, we are below all those. I will point out, and I have this on a later slide, we are below Burlington also. So you mentioned the outlier. We wouldn't be the first outlier, which is a point I would like to make, but we'll come back to that. So we do have do view that we have capacity. I mean, I think I was looking I was actually out skiing out in Jackson, Wyoming this year. And I think I took a picture of my hotel building was 14%. Right? So, like like, taxes. So people, when they come to the like, I don't we don't believe that it will have an impact. And we talked about this. You know, Lipsky came in as we were having conversation in in public meeting ahead of the vote. Know, you is this a progressive or regressive tax? And, traditionally, you wouldn't think of this as a progressive tax. But I would say that in a resort community, when it's consumption based by the nature of who is paying, visiting or not, it is a little progressive because of the choice. Like, I can't choose to pay my problem. I have to pay them. Right? If you you can choose what you do, and it is a way for us to spread it around. I like, you know, what you made the comment. It is other people's money. But it's not because we don't feel we've contributed as well. So we see that there's there's capacity. Wanna go on to the the next slide. So the comment, you know, I think some of the points we wanted to make sure we made, you know, obviously, yes, this is a charter change. We're going outside the statewide local option tax parameters. But definitely wanna point out that, you know, from an outlier perspective, you know, Burlington with its gross receipts tax is a higher precedent than Stowe. So they would be still higher on every single category, whether it's in who's meals and alcohol at two and a half, hotels at four, and actually, I took it off the charts. It was too much. 9% on short term rents. But they've had the latitude in their charter to charge these taxes. And then I think the really important piece and what we wanted to do, and, again, bringing constructive ideas that benefit, like, that is not a zero sum game. It's not like we win, the state loses. The orange is the state's take. Right? We're not looking to keep this all in stone. We're looking to, you know, make this a balance of contributing parts. So, you know, the current you know, you look at what we've contributed via the local option tax date, the increase, and the projected growth over ten years. So this increase will net the state the $10,000,000 additional beyond what it would have received. And this has already passed the votes. You don't have a you know, just just has to get through the voters here in uphill here. It is again, so we see this as we're able to benefit, but also that this fits well. Why do the tax? I think that, representative started to to touch on it, but just to drive home. It's not that we have a ton it's deferred maintenance, but it's ongoing maintenance. Running a town like Stowe is expensive. Right? You know, we have one of the longest the longest sewer systems in the state.

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: Seven miles.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Seven miles long running up to the mountain, which was critical to funding this project. And what we, you know, put this slide in to point out, you know, this the municipal investment to create the infrastructure that made Spruce Peak possible contributes just this property in this picture alone, just shy of $8,000,000 to the state education fund. Has to be one of those highest contributing single properties in the state, and that's done by the municipality investing itself. And that's what needs to happen. You know, we have our our rep pass, you know, is is every bridge on that needs to be replaced. That's a million dollars a ton. You've got, you know, we have to maintain a paid fire department. We have to pay mountain rescue. There aren't many towns around to do that. We have, you know, while this wouldn't be directly tied because it would be water ratepayers, we have an entire water infrastructure to deal with with, you know, a PFAS issue that is is creeping up. You know, stow I mean, one of the biggest so I've been on the select board. That's my third year. One of the things that was most fascinating to me, having been a resident, was how much infrastructure is installed, how much this is like a small city. And yet we're now when I get to a later slide, we're running it on a on a shoestring budget. Right? It's all because of our challenges with the how the, you know, the tax proportion. So I think, again, I think the point here is when we've invested in ourselves using the spruce peak example, tax revenues go up everywhere for the state. Right? So you can see from, you know, over time, the parts are it's big numbers, so but it's proportionally growing year over year. The state, you know, take on the sales tax component. And if we go to the next slide, I think this is maybe the most interesting slide. So as Stowe has invested in itself, I mean, I think Spruce Peak is somewhere around there. The amount of money that we've driven into the state education fund via the grand list and the growth and the benefit is tremendous. Right? I think it's $46,000,000. It's one of the largest contributors, know, from a town perspective. I think it's one of my favorite data points more than the Vermont State Lottery that contributes to the state education fund. And we're happy to do it. Right? We recognize it as a an economic engine. State is part of our responsibility to to do that, but we need means to run this town. I mean, if you look at it, you know, the municipality led budget, we're running, you know, a pretty steady state. And if you look at the number of people, houses, growth in the town, it is starting to put pressure. If we were to go back, when we had to go, we just take a goal of keeping our municipal taxes tied to brand risk. Brand Brand risk growth plus or minus inflation. Given what the influx of of what's been going on still over the last decade, that becoming increasingly difficult. And we very much believe that it's in, obviously, our best interest for the community to keep the town growing and but also for the the community, you the the county, the state, everybody wins when when. And it's not just at the state level. I threw this we threw this slide in to just point out that, you know, Stowe as a, you know, a a jobs hub, a commerce hub in Lamoille County also carries, you know, a disproportionate portion of, you know, countywide expenses. Right? So that, again, being you know, what's good for Stowe is good for Lamoille County, and that allows allowing us to continue to do that. Going to the last slide, and then be happy to take questions. And I I think the the the core point, you know, I think you've heard this from from from representative Lipsky, you've

[Chair Matthew Birong]: heard from from from Joe as

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: well. We don't view this as a zero sum game. Right? This is a situation where the town of Stowe voted to tax itself for the use of the community to maintain the community. I don't see how there's a detriment to any other community. Again, we set this up in a way that it is not all for Stow and that the state loses that capacity. The state is getting that 25 contribution through the the local option tax mechanisms of the current framework. And, also, you know, if you go back to the elasticity slide, think that if you look at behaviors, this is a stand alone event. It is separate from whatever else would would come forward. So I think that, you know, from that perspective, you know, this is a win win and where where it can be free for all. And then, again, Winstow, you know, as a community can grow. It is good for the overall tax base of the state, and it's great for the local council. So be happy to take any questions.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Yeah, please. Rep Nugent, first hand.

[Rep. Kate Nugent (Member)]: Could you make the case for this Charter change directly impacting the situation that Ms. Courtney was describing? Like, how

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: In which regard?

[Rep. Kate Nugent (Member)]: Is that helping folks who want to stay in the town? Sure.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Yeah. No. Mean, I think that there are couple of ways. First, you know, any dollar raised this maybe this means is a dollar not that's that doesn't have to be raised by property taxes. Right? If you're paying property taxes and you're renting out your property, that is a pass through. Right? If taxes go up, rental rates go up. We've seen it. You've seen it in town. I mean, go out on, front porch forum, and if you're lucky enough to find a rental that's available, it's not a not a pretty number if you're looking to rent. So there's that. There's also, you know, a number of initiatives we have going on. So, we did pass another, item at town meeting was the, housing reserve fund. So the the town has had a housing task force in place. We very much are starting to try and step into how do we tackle this sort of housing crisis that we have. I mean, it is a statewide issue. We have our version of it. And so so, we're very sensitive to the municipal portion of the the tax bill or that that people get. Because when you get your tax bill, you don't you know, no one looks at it and says, oh, well, let's the the state education fund got this much and the town got this much, so it's all okay. They look at it as one one number. So we've always been trying to keep that down. So we do view it as a way to do that while investing the time.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Sure. I'll get the fastball. Bring it. I'll I'm gonna bring it up.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: So you currently use the 1% to help keep costs down to the taxpayers?

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: I I believe we have a couple of different pieces of our current one. This one is not allocated. This one is going to be, is undesignated at this point. So it could be to the general fund. It could be to review for property tax relief. It could be for, you know, funding towards a housing project or whatever at the will of the select board at the time. Solomon. Correct.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: These numbers I just spent some of these numbers just to stop stab me. It's like, holy.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: I was having a good time with the slide deck. If

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: if I may, I mean, I think then I'll I'll I'll but I think that what you have in the town is is there is a little bit of tax fatigue from a property perspective, but there is a willingness to come with ideas. And I think that that was that's been a big message of what we've been pushing from the SelectQuote side as well as from the community. There there are opportunities to to tackle it, but it's also, like, you look at the what you pay and what you get. Like, I'm not gonna be here and cry for still relative to the state, so I wanna be clear. But come look at our rec center downtown. It's gotta be one of the top five worst in the in the state. Like, there's a lot of things that are getting passed on because we can't tackle it, relative to, you know, the the massive growth in our in people's property tax bills and things like that.

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: So Representative Lipsky. Again, Jed Lipsky, Lamoille 1. I want to address Sandy's, representative Pinsonault's point. So when the first, rooms and meals tax and alcohol beverage tax was passed, had a lot of support from the business community. The time we had the most humble, speaking of our rec center, rink in the state of Vermont. We're supposed to be the winter sport Capital Of The East, and that was pushed through by the business community as well as the residents to help fund a bond to build a new rink. It has become the center of our community for local families, for folks from Eden, Hardwick, anywhere, you go into that rank and you feel welcome. It was a good investment. It wasn't a it was an economic driver to a degree, but it had a high over. And it was a municipally run facility. The second thing we did with some of those funds, and this I I wanna attribute the the one leader of the Stow Area Association for this. But the town chose to invest in daring the power lines on three and a half blocks of Main Street, and it is one of the most iconic of village centers in New England. And and with like I said previously, it's the tallest single spire on a church in the state of Vermont. Without those wires, our sidewalks on a weekend in the summer in foliage season, it is like the boardwalk down in Atlantic City back in the twenties. I mean, it is and it is photogenic, but those were investments that the taxpayer designated those funds to help the economic vitality of the community. So they, those were slightly designated funds. I wanted to point that out, but I think that, and there were others that proved the sidewalks, some of that was granting, but some can't. So those are two things to understand that I prepare for investing. Thank

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: you.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Please.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: I just want to put my tourism hat on for a minute. The thousands and thousands and thousands of people that we bring to the state through the VTM, through I do with the struggling language, international people, and through Stowe, these people have expectations. And they come to Stowe carrying those expectations. And if we have crumbling sidewalks, we have pedestrian crossings, which is my big bugaboo, as you know, the safety of gotta do this. In foliage, people are crossing just willy nilly, and you go two miles an hour down the street. So all of these things are based on, to me, the expectation of tourists who come here, of our visitors, who we respect so much and who we need so much. Thank you.

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: Can I just say one word, mister chair? At least, I'm Charles, I'm the town manager. I'll give you a personal perspective. I serve as state and elite board. I've been a municipal manager for thirty eight years in Vermont. I was assistant at Middlebury, manager in Harvard, Vermont, Essex Junction, and now Stowe for the last nineteen years. It may seem hard for people to believe, but when I first came to Stowe, there was a lot of empty storefronts. The downtown was being bypassed, and, it is not what you see today. By the legislature giving us that 1% local option tax opportunity to invest in the community. It chose to invest $6,500,000 to underground those power lines, build streets, gave improvements, to attract people back to our downtown, which warms my heart when the community invests in itself, particularly its downtowns, which I've struggled with the last thirty eight years in various municipalities to maintain their vibrancy. And the difference between nineteen years ago and today, just come to Stone. Just see it for yourself. When you give opportunity to communities, they produce dividends that benefit all of Vermonters. And I just wanna leave that impassioned, if I could, thought to you that it's

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: I think that the meals was a was was what you would classify as a landslide, and I I think the other was still still resounding. But we can get you those.

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: I I would appreciate it.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Absolutely. Thank you.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. Sorry. No. And we plan on poking at this a little bit more. So I wanted to like thank you all for coming today. So, you know, instead of just doing council and the sponsor of the bill, I wanted to really bring a lot of you in and get a better understanding because this is the first community, the first municipality that's come in with a request to exceed the baseline. So, one is really diligent with the testimony that we take on this. So for the record, read the numbers. For the record, we had the

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: the rooms, meals, and alcohol tax was a yes of 532 to a no of $2.46. The, sales tax was a yes of $4.67 to a no of $3.10. And if it is of interest to you, I'll grab that. What was the actual budget vote just because I use that as a baseline? That's the so there were 597 yeses on the on the budget.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: $5.97?

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Was for our overall budget. Yes.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Right. Hango.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: And how many registered voters are there in style?

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Four 3,000, 4,000. I don't know the exact number off the top. Do you have that? This was a this was a a old town meeting voter turnout.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: 25, 27. 27. 27. Seven. 25%. Yeah.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: 4,000 just. I mean, that is a typical town meeting.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Could you

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: repeat that, please?

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Four four thousand registered voters.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: Thank you. And how many noes were on the budget?

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: The no. I'm sorry.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Five ninety seven.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Yes. Five ninety seven. Yes. I think it was one seventy five. No.

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: Those are the perpetual no's.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: Those are the that was the but that was the perpetual no I was talking about. So I discount those off the other no's because they're you're not gonna vote no there and

[Chair Matthew Birong]: yes, but on another tax.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: So yeah. I mean, again, we don't you know, typically, you see 900 to 1,200 people turn out in town meeting voting. We don't get unfortunately, I wish the state of democracy was better than that, but that is what it is.

[Rep. Jed Lipsky (Stowe, Lamoille-1)]: Mhmm. It's not an election year. Right? I think it was. Yeah.

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: Yes. This one. Alright. You can see why they would vote yes in favor of rooms and meals because it doesn't really affect them because they're not staying there.

[Ethan Carlson (Chair, Stowe Selectboard)]: That was the easiest way support it. Sure. That's certainly an easier yes. They did not not impact. And I also think that, you know, we did not have a ton of time, you know, if you go through the sequence to, you know, do outreach and education around what's excluded. Right? So I don't think everybody understood. You know, I think fuel oil fuel's excluded. Most food items are excluded. It's not like your clothing excluded. So that it's not like you know, so I think there was a a piece of that there. But, again, I I would say anytime you get you know, that's something that's not a razor thin vote on more taxes, I consider that a pretty pretty strong vote of support. And I and I would also say I don't think we saw any it's a little more anecdotal than it is, but I didn't didn't see any wasn't any big fervor no movement or anything of that. I think generally the community was was receptive and to the concept. I see. Roughly a three to

[Chair Matthew Birong]: two ratio on your local option. Yeah. Anything else? Alright. Well, plan on you know, we'll we'll do more work on this for sure. So we'll definitely be in touch if we have any other questions. And we'll No. Do the conversation at some point. Discussion about who built. Awesome. Thank

[Joe Sable Courtney (Stowe Selectboard Member)]: you, guys.

[Charles Safford (Stowe Town Manager)]: Thank you.

[Chair Matthew Birong]: Thank you. I got another meeting in six minutes. Let's see. Just place this all.