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[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: We are live. Alright. Welcome back, everyone. Just before 11AM, and, we are picking work back up on H six eighty six, an act relating to expanding identification of certain lobbying advertisements. We have in our gallery folks from secretary of state's office and also the attorney general's office. My list is in no particular order. Do you folks have a preference? Think we'll go first.
[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Gonna be by we have passed. Okay. Oh, okay. That
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: works. We are gonna
[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: be extremely strong. Okay. Cool.
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Who are you today?
[Leslie Welts (Assistant Attorney General, Chair of AG’s Campaign Finance Committee)]: Good morning, everyone. My name is Leslie Welch. I work for the attorney general, and I'm here to testify on H-six 86. I am the chair of my office's campaign finance committee, which looks at not just campaign finance matters, investigations, enforcement, but also lobbying, which is why I'm here to talk about this bill. We also look at elections issues as well. So I've been here to talk about that in the past as well. But it's nice to see you all. In short, we support the bill. Anything that promotes transparency in advertising is something that is close to the heart of our attorney general. In addition, this simplifies the question of when you need to have a disclosure on an ad. It takes away that time requirement as to figuring out whether we're in a biennium or outside of it. And so it just sort of reduces the questions that one needs to ask, that a lobbyist needs to ask themselves when they're producing an ad. It simplifies what we need to look at in terms of whether there was a violation. It's pretty straightforward now. Given these factors, we support the bill. One thing that I would just mention, though, while we're talking about lobbying, as you know, because I just talked about it, our committee looks Our office has enforcement authority on campaign finance matters, on elections issue matters, and on lobbying. But the enforcement powers, the investigative and enforcement powers, they deviate in all three. And having them all be aligned would really help us, because we have been successfully deploying the campaign finance investigative tools. I've spoken to you in the past about that, to S-twenty Street. So they're now Those tools have been added in that bill to apply to more than just campaign finance, but also for elections fraud issues, voter fraud issues. So, just to give you the anchor of the chapter numbers, so campaign finance is, and I welcome Legis Council to correct me if I get anything wrong on this, but I believe it's Title 17, Chapter 61. Elections issues is Title 17 as well, but Chapter 35. And then lobbying is actually entitled to Chapter 11. So that's why I think they've differed, because they've been kind of specific to the chapter that they're in. One of the key attributes that we really like in the campaign finance investigative tools is not just the subpoena power, there's ability to compel information from respondents, but also the protection it provides respondents, because it requires us to hold that information confidential. The same provisions don't exist in the lobbying chapter. So, I think it would help ensure, motivate, incentivize more robust responses if there was this statutory confidentiality provision added. So, the language that we have, we already have the language. It exists in law as it is in Chapter 61. It is in S23 right now for the other. So, we'd just be adding that same language to Title II that I would recommend.
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Of continuity. Yes, representative.
[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Could I have you repeat the title 17, chapter 61 was for? Campaign finance. Campaign finance, Okay.
[Leslie Welts (Assistant Attorney General, Chair of AG’s Campaign Finance Committee)]: It's taken me years to get it all nailed down. So I will repeat it as many times as needed. The title 17, chapter 35, is what's called Offenses Against the Purity of Elections. And then the lobbying one is in title two, chapter 11. Thank you.
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And other than that, I guess that flag and suggestion.
[Leslie Welts (Assistant Attorney General, Chair of AG’s Campaign Finance Committee)]: Nothing further to add. Happy to take questions.
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes. Any questions for the AGs or episodes? Okay. Thank you. John, how are doing?
[Sean Shea (Elections Director, Vermont Secretary of State’s Office)]: Pretty good. Thank you. John Chea, elections director, secretary of state's office. Attorney general's office was very quick. Let's see if we can be even quicker. In short, we support this the bill as well as we despite last time we were we were in. We support any improvements on on transparency, and this bill does provide that greater transparency. We agree lobbying advertisements should be clearly identified regardless of the the time of year, even after the legislature has has adjourned. The piece that we flagged last time to come back was just that we support the decision to limit that change in approach to the to the adjournment of legislative session, just to the lobbying disclosure piece. And and the bill doesn't amend title two section two sixty six, which is the prohibition. The two sixty six has the distinction between the treatment of lobbyist gifts during the session versus outside of the session. And we we support that non change in that sense. Lobbyists will still be prohibited during the legislative session from being solicited for contributions or making or promising contributions to legislators and the other entities identified in that in that section. They'll still be allowed to make campaign contributions outside of the legislative session, and those contributions will continue to be reported both in the lobbying information system by the lobbyists under the lobbying activity, the under the gifts and political contributions as the as the type of gifts as they are reported. Now, the reporting periods won't be won't be adjusted. And of course, the recipients will report those contributions as well in the campaign finance system in accordance with campaign finance law, assuming they meet that threshold. So we we support this approach and the the transparency it it provides. And and finally, that last point on enforcement, we support the attorney general's recommendation of having that consistency across enforcement of election law, campaign finance law, and lobbying law.
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Thank you for that. It all seems very positive at this point. Do Any you questions for Sean? My goal is to get, you know, some other, you know, suggestions from the office. We also had to be perk come in just a little bit more for the committee, right? Like, we had be perk come in with some suggestions. So to get sort of like an analysis on that stuff and move towards a new draft for next week. So we can really help and get this one out. So, yes, Representative Hango.
[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. I guess this is just a general question, because I hadn't really thought about it before this film came up. But how is that advertising described? How do you know who it applies to and who it doesn't apply to? Are any organization, no matter how large or how small?
[Sean Shea (Elections Director, Vermont Secretary of State’s Office)]: Oh, entitled we could refer to entitled to chapter 11, the registration of lobbyists. Section two sixty one is the definitions, and it defines each of those terms. It defines what a lobbyist is, what a lobbying firm is, It defines what lobbying activity is, so forth. So, anyone who meets those definitions.
[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, in your opinion, this is gonna apply to anybody who meets any of those definitions.
[Sean Shea (Elections Director, Vermont Secretary of State’s Office)]: That's Yeah.
[Leslie Welts (Assistant Attorney General, Chair of AG’s Campaign Finance Committee)]: All right. Thank you.
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: You're just looking at me with curious eyes represented No. As Okay, cool. No, thank you, Sean.
[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Sean did it. Okay, Sean. Alright.
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Alright. So, at this point, we're gonna take the feedback from the VP's office, and we're gonna take a look at the proposal from the presentation and presentation last week and get an idea of how to move forward with an updated draft on this, if that sounds good.
[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Yes. Mhmm. Alright. Wonderful.
[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Wow, that took eight minutes. Right? Okay. Any questions from anyone before we have time to work on those that we have and go out there. Alright. Wonderful. Next, take us off. We'll be back at 01:00 for, a conversation and introduction and a walk through witness testimony on one of the Burlington City charters.