Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Unidentified committee member]: Okay. Alright. We're

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: live. Alright, everyone. We're back to agenda items, shortly after 1PM on, the January 29, and we have some witness testimony on h seven six seven nine, an act relating to emergency management in flood prone municipalities. And we have, couple of, folks from Northeast Kingdom and the government relations director to speak with us today. So, I'm just gonna go down the list top to bottom with testimony, if that's okay with everyone and, open things up with Theresa Perrin. You're on mute ma'am, I'm sorry. You're muted. Got it. Now we can hear you. Perfect.

[Theresa Perrin, Town Administrator, Town of Glover]: Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Well, first, I want to thank the House Committee on Government Operations and Military Affairs for allowing me to share this testimony. My name is Theresa Perrin. I am with the town of Glover. I'm the town administrator, and I just want to give a little background. I was born and raised on a farm in Glover with eight sisters and four brothers. We were taught very strict work ethics. And when we get together, we often share fond memories of our farm life. And sometimes they're not always fond, but mostly they are. My personal testimony about the flood of two thousand twenty three is being woken from sleep by my daughter and she lives in the lower village of Glover. And that's usually where everything flows to. Her voice was chilling as she told me the bridge had filled with trees and the Barton River had jumped the bank and was rushing past her front porch. On the phone, I could hear the rumbling of the rocks and the boulders being forced by raging water passed by her house. I urgently asked, where's Fred? He's my grandson, and told her to get away from the edge of the porch because she was videotaping the flood for me so I could see what was happening. I told her to move her car to higher ground, and she asked, you know, what do we do, mom? Well, I was at a loss. I had been hired by the town of Glover for only three days when this happened. Do we call 911? We really didn't know what to do. We just waited and we waited for it to be over and we stayed connected on the phone. The next morning, I was up at four a. M. To drive down to Glover to see the damage. My home was not the only home damaged. Many families were impacted that night. In December of the same year, four feet of water filled the basement, taking out the furnace and hot water tank. Another blow. Financial support for small towns is critical. Glover has a population of about eleven fourteen people. Our neighboring towns are Bardan with a population of 2,872. Greensboro, 811. Orleans, 848 and Coventry, 1,100. And I say those towns because I want you to know they are small towns with small population. This list is only a few of our small communities in the Northeast Kingdom that without financial assistance would be devastated. For Glover, the two thousand twenty three flood and twenty four flood caused significant damage to our roads, culverts, businesses, homes and caused complete destruction to the basement of the town hall, the site of our senior meal program. This entire area of the town hall needed to be gutted and rebuilt. Many volunteers came to help salvage what we could of the dining and kitchen area. Megan Whelan and Nico were instrumental in getting this work done and taking a step forward to remove the sheetrock and insulation and get it ready for a rebuild. It took a year to get the town hall repaired before senior meals could be moved back in. If you have your phone, I'd like for this moment for you to either go on your phone or your computer and just type in shadowlakedam.org.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: I

[Unidentified committee member]: can interact it.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: I don't like to cut them just using

[Unidentified committee member]: these Shadow. I

[Theresa Perrin, Town Administrator, Town of Glover]: want you to see our beautiful lake in the town of Glover. That's the Shadow Lake. These same floods had severely damaged the Shadow Lake Dam. The floodwaters undermined the granite block embankment, creating internal erosion that exited out at the bottom of the auxiliary spillway. This flow of water and debris created stability issues with the dam and a five by five foot sinkhole was the result. If you scroll down, you'll see that sinkhole. It has since been temporarily repaired. The regular inspection of the dam, I'm going to give you a little history, was conducted on 06/28/2023. On 07/18/2023, Dam Safety Program performed a rapid inspection to access the flood damage on 07/19/2024. Stephen Hannah Andrew Samsell of the Dam Safety Program again inspected Shadow Lake Dam. The dam was downgraded to unsatisfactory. On 07/26/2024, Ben Green, Vermont Dam Safety Engineer, performed another inspection and made recommendations. 09/07/2024, the Dam Safety Program engineers performed a site visit. They examined deficiencies, collected data, measured stop log operations. They discussed with the select board, town administrator, road crew, and the maintenance what the next steps would be. Ben Green recommended we contact Des Bois and King for further investigation. On 08/08/2024, Des Bois and King engineers visited to obtain observations, photos and measurements of the sinkhole at Shadow Lake Dam and oversee the temporary repair. This was an emergency repair due to the predicted heavy rain the following weekend. There was no access road to get heavy equipment and materials on the site. The town road crew built a new access road, a small bridge and a small bridge to the embankment was built to cross the auxiliary spillway to get materials to the sinkhole. We were advised to hire an engineer. We hired Weston and Sampson Engineering Incorporated from Reading, Massachusetts. Their proposal was to, one, review the existing information, two, dam observations, Three, wetland delineation. Four, survey and base plan. Five, field explorations, including borings of the dam embankment and collect information about the foundation and soils. Six, hydrologic and hydrologic hydraulic analysis. Seven, engineering analysis. Eight, alternative analysis and conceptual. And by the way, that's where we're at now. We're on number eight with that with that company. And nine will be the final report, which we are waiting for. And that report will tell us which now what analysis is best for that dam. Our small community has come together and we've raised to $26,148.27 for the Chattel Lake Dam project. Every gift was from the hearts of the community that had come together to save the dam and the town. A dam breach would be catastrophic. The dam repairs are predicted to be over $1,000,000 Financial support, again, financial support for small towns is critical. This is only one town story. There are many, many more. It is vital to support Vermont, Northeast Kingdom small towns that are flood impacted with state level financing assistance. The buyout program could be a great option for families, but the paperwork is daunting for them. I had that experience with several families this year. And especially so soon after a flood, they're traumatized and you hand them lots of paperwork. There needs to be a state program to provide people to work with individual families where they can help with this kind of daunting task when voting on this bill. Remember, financial support for small towns is critical. Please visit our websites, shadowlakedam.org, and also the website townofglover.com/lake will have all the documentation that is mentioned in this testimony. Thank you for allowing me to share our small town story.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: No, thank you very much. That was a really moving block of testimony with what the community's gone through. I knew there was an issue there. It was very present, but the scale of it, I didn't realize until now. So thank you for this.

[Theresa Perrin, Town Administrator, Town of Glover]: Well, thank you for the opportunity. I really appreciate it. Much as I can reach out and reach people. You know, it's so important that other people know.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Yeah, this committee has been working on this subject matter for years very attentively now. So we're seeing this conversation is just a necessary continuation of that work. We appreciate your time frankness with us. Do we have any questions for Teresa? No. Do you mind just staying with us in case something comes up further in testimony?

[Theresa Perrin, Town Administrator, Town of Glover]: I would love to stay with you. I was hoping I could.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Oh, no. For sure. Yes. Yes. You are

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: with us.

[Theresa Perrin, Town Administrator, Town of Glover]: You're the others speak.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: More than welcome. Yes. But no, this is very detailed, and I really appreciate the link that you provided us too. We'll use that as a resource as we talk about this further. Hi, Megan. How are you?

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Hi, you all. I'm good. I'm nervous. You know, being able to speak in front of this committee is a huge opportunity. And similarly to Teresa, I feel like an ambassador for the kingdom, and I've been doing flood work for three years, like covered in mud, kind of three years and it's it's been wild and so I I, you know, when I get the opportunity to speak, I really appreciate it and I also feel the pressure of bringing everybody from the kingdom with me into the room. It makes me really emotional. But I'm really thankful to be here, I'm thankful to Gabbops for working on this legislation and, thankful to Teddy for the invitation to come and speak. Should I start? That wasn't my that wasn't my intro. I have something real.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: That that was a great intro to your intro, though. So, no, you're amongst friends, so just speak speak freely.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Alright. I will. So hi. I'm Megan Whalen. I did not get you all my testimony ahead of time, but I will send it because I'm gonna be sharing my screen a bunch, hopefully, if it works out. And I want you all to have these links and then also the words that I'm about to say. I just was writing this up until, like, 12:59. So I'm Megan Whalen. I'm the former lead organizer and co director of Northeast Kingdom Organizing or Nico. Nico has one employee. We are a grassroots mutual aid nonprofit that was founded by the Center for an Agricultural Economy in 2017. NECO has been the primary flood response organization in The Kingdom since 2023, and I'm gonna get into a little bit about what that means and some of the work that we've done in future slides. I'm also the cofounder and president of the Kingdom's long term recovery group, which is CURVE, and that stands for Kingdom United Resilience and Recovery Effort. And I cofounded in partnership with Carrie White and members of our working communities challenge team in 2024. I'm really proud that Vermont and you all are working on this bipartisan bill and that it has so much support. I think preparing our small towns, especially for future climate disasters and for resilience really matters. And I think this really matters to working class Vermonters, and it's really a matter of housing and keeping Vermonters in the communities that they've grown up in. And so I'm gonna talk a lot about that today. But I really wanted to talk also about some context around the long term recovery groups because I don't know if this is widely known. But FEMA voluntary the FEMA voluntary agency liaisons approached grassroots organizers like me across the state and asked us to establish these groups after the twenty twenty three flood. And now there are 11 in the state, and they do really important work. The role of a long term recovery group is to rebuild people rebuild people after the response phase of a disaster. So response typically lasts about three months, and that's like the mucking, the gutting, the mold remediation that keeps a house, the cancer of mold from spreading in a home. And then recovery is the rebuild phase, and that can last for up to ten years. And I'm talking about individual assistance in homes now rather than public assistance and everything Teresa deals with on a daily basis, although the worlds do merge when it comes to the buyout program. But just as an example, so the former disaster relief fund, this is just an example of how long recovery can take. But the director of the disaster relief fund, which is now housed within DCF, told me that the last house impacted by Irene was built months before the twenty twenty three floods. So it's like a twelve year trajectory. And after a disaster, the vast majority of people can rebuild on their own using a combination of FEMA awards, and the average FEMA award is about 5,000. SBA loans that are low interest loans offered by FEMA, other higher interest loans from banks. And a lot of people really lean into their savings and retirements funds in order to rebuild. So 10% of people, though, will need the help of a long term recovery group in order to recover. And in The Kingdom, FEMA estimates that number is actually closer to twenty percent because of the compounding effects of poverty and isolation in The Kingdom. So I'm gonna share my screen to talk a little about a little bit about the impact that this legislation could have on housing and especially the governor's housing goals. Oh, I can't actually share my screen. Is there someone who can enable that for me?

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Yes. He's nodding. Yes.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Great. Is that Nick?

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: It is Nick.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Thanks, Nick.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: She's important. I think she should be because it's She should Give it a shot. You should be good to go.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Okay. Cool. Let me see here. Okay. I'm gonna share my entire screen and see if that doesn't do that weird

[Unidentified committee member]: effect.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: You all see

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: The chart is

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: this presentation, or is it too small?

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Yeah. What we have right now is, I believe, your Zoom screen.

[Unidentified committee member]: We did see a brief

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: see it. Yeah. A second ago. So I think you're just on the wrong task.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: I think I'm just gonna have to share tabs. I have to toggle between a few different things. And so

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: That's fine. Take your time.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Okay. Here we go.

[Unidentified committee member]: Here we go.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: So I wanna talk about the impact of Vermont based solutions and local mutual aid organizations, you know, kind of speaking to this issue of having, like, a Vermont FEMA ready to go, a Vermont based buyout plan ready to go, supporting on the ground efforts and small municipalities throughout the state and, like, the impact that that can have, like, where a little bit of funding can go a very, very, very long way. So Nico mucked and gutted 04/1930 homes in third well, let me present this. That's a little bigger. So, Nico mocked and gutted 430

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: so much.

[Unidentified committee member]: I have a

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: terrible idea.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: I have

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: no idea what you just did. Thank you.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: It's tiny. Yep. Okay. So over the course of the three floods, you know, the kingdom was impacted all three years on July 2025. As you all know, Nico, Muckton got a 430 homes in 31 towns with the help of 450 volunteers. We have so far through curve rebuilt 60 homes. We've stood up eight disaster resilience hubs, and I'm gonna show you some maps of this stuff in in a little bit. As I said, we cofounded curve, which was the kingdom's long term recovery group to help Vermonters recover, keep people from the kingdom from being displaced from their homes and neighborhoods. And I'll talk again about that in the future. We joined coalitions to create the people's demands for just flood recovery and the long term recovery group legislative priorities. We've testified and held red press conferences about what matters to us, and we joined with community resilience organizations and grassroots flood responders throughout the state to create the resilience hub toolkit. So every community has this road map for resilience going forward. I wanna talk a little bit about housing impact and cost savings. So on the right, there's this really clustered map of crisis cleanup, and I'm gonna share my screen in a minute to show just, like, the scope of work in the kingdom and how massive the damage really was here, plus, like, how the damage got spread across all three counties here. As I said, we mocked and gutted 430 homes. Curve has rebuilt 60 so far. We have 15 construction projects in progress, and we have another 15 on deck. So over the three years, we've saved about 500 homes, and it's only cost us $600,000. So for materials and staff time for Nico, was about a $100, and the cost to curve for materials plus staff time has been about $500,000. Meanwhile, the savings to Vermont and Vermonters has been close to $31,000,000. So six we've saved Vermonters themselves 6,000,000 in mucking gut savings. So the cost it would have taken them to hire a private company to muck gut and remediate mold in their homes is estimated to be about $13,000 by the founder of Crisis Cleanup, Aaron Titus. And so that's a $6,000,000 savings over three years to just to Vermonters. But for the state, if I was looking at the VHIP website and the average cost of an ADU is $50,000, at least that's the reimbursement that's being offered. And so if we're looking at the homes we've been able to keep online versus the cost of really conservative estimate of what new construction would be, we've saved the state about $25,000,000 in new construction costs. And let me see if this are you all still in this presentation? You are. I just wanna show you crisis cleanup to show you the scope of I'm not sure how many of you all are familiar with this program, but this crisis cleanup was has been instrumental to us, to people who have been on the ground mucking and gutting over the past few years because not only is it a computer program that has an interactive map, but it's also a phone app. So we can really effectively send people out on the ground. And so what you're looking at is a map of the disaster in The kingdom. We had five hundred and thirty two cases just in 2024. These are outside of two one one damage reports. These these reports really relate to impacted homeowners and renters. So not driveways and bridges and culverts, although I'll show you that data in a second, which we store in a

[Unidentified committee member]: different Morgan, Morgan, we can't see your map.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Okay.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Yeah. I think you just when you toggle that at the other screen, we're we're back to our Zoom screen with you and the other guests right now.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: K. Thanks for letting me know.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: I'm so Yeah.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: We go.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Okay. So this is, like, an overview, where we have 532 cases. But I'm just gonna zoom in on the impact, and you'll start to see these icons pop up. This is what Saint Johnsbury looked like. This is Memorial Drive. This is Red Village Road, which was completely decimated. This is Lindenville. And if you zoom in on any of these neighborhoods, you start to see that each icon is a home. Each icon is a project. All of the green boots and trash cans and fans symbolize work that has been was completed by grassroots volunteers in The Kingdom and and the homes that were able to be saved, after the flood. And this is how we tracked projects during the response period, of of, the disaster. So in the three months kind of following the disaster. Have folks seen Crisis Cleanup before? And are you all familiar with this tool?

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: This is the first time I'm putting any eyes on it.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: This is a side note, but there is constantly a discussion, about whether or not two one one or crisis cleanup should be implemented by the state post disaster. And the state of Vermont has never paid for crisis cleanup as an application. It is far and away the best place to gather data, and to communicate data because of the interactive map. It is far more effective in helping people recover than the current two one one system. And so I just wanna advocate that if we if the state of Vermont could invest in this tool so Aaron Titus, who's the founder, turned it on for me in 2025 so I could still use it just me just for the kingdom personally. But all long term recovery groups, all of the people like me throughout the state, like, love and need this tool. And so it really shouldn't be it would be more effective for the state to codify this and put this into the law and to fund the use of this program and to find ways to integrate it with two one one because of its effectiveness. We wouldn't have been able to do the work we do without this. And like I said, it's also a phone app. And so people can go door to door and assess damage, like and manage projects in real time on their phones. So I really wanted to take the time to show this to you, so thanks for indulging that. Just to give you a sense of how much work there has been Okay. So I'm going to stop sharing that screen and go back to this presentation. Okay. Are you all still with me?

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: Yes. Yes.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Great. Oops. Goddamn it.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: Oh, sorry. That's alright.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: You're you're

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: you're a mom's friend. Okay.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Is this a lot of technology? Alright. So here's just some pictures of people doing the work I was just talking about, mucking, gutting, remediating molds, like, all of the joy and, like, hope that that brings to people, like, immediately following the flood. And this really just are Vermonters doing a lot with

[Unidentified committee member]: a

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: little. And here's some pictures of us rebuilding some homes. So repointing a foundation, which means, like, when water finds its way, it will always find its way into a home. And so, you know, shoring up, mortar between stones and stone foundations or like, redoing foundations completely, Repairing cracks in foundations has been really fundamental work. A home is really obviously not, as sound without a sound foundation. There's pictures of us doing roofs for roofs that were couldn't withstand the rain event and the wind and everything else that came with these with these floods. And so this is just some work of of curve repairing these homes in the kingdom and some pictures of us out in the field. So the main point here is that by by investing in long term recovery and mutual aid groups, for the price it costs to build one new home, we can save 500 homes and over $30,000,000. And here's what else funding mutual aid groups and long term recovery groups can do. It can support hubs and networks for resilience. And so throughout the floods, Nico had had to stand up, places where we could store tools in order to do flood work throughout the kingdom. And so we established all of these storage units with things like shovels and rakes and dehumidifiers and, oh my god, pumps, like every kind of trash pump, sump pump, you name it, pedestal pumps to help neighbors recover. And this is a map of all of those locations throughout the kingdom. And some of them are more stocked than others. Linden Villa is currently our most robust hub. Part of that reason is because it's so central to where the disaster has been striking. And so what you'll see here is a map of of how we are working to network these hubs and share these resources among them. So having an inventory, system so that there's, like, online inventory that people can tap into if we need to send a dehumidifier from Lunenburg to Morgan or from Linden to Hardwick, for example. So really making sure that not only are the hubs themselves resourced, but that they have enough resources to support surrounding towns and to support one another. And that's the work that's Nico's current work is building out these hubs in The Kingdom and also helping these hubs network to one another and and and other hubs throughout the state and throughout the country, actually. This is a list of everything that's in those hubs and how people would access them, the number of who to contact and kind of what's in them, just a basic inventory. We we have sent this out to every municipality in, in The Kingdom. And I also wanted I think what would probably work best is just to show you also briefly this tool that we've developed to help people create resilience throughout the state. We really want the hub model to proliferate because it's been so effective. It's like we just really felt alone. I think Teresa kind of talked about, like, who do I even call? Like, we know we have these agencies. There's Vermont Emergency Management. There's our Regional Planning Commission. There's FEMA. But, like, really, when disaster strikes, it's it's been the communities that have band together and responded. And so people like me from all over the state got together to create this resilience hub toolkit. And I don't know if you can see it.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Yeah. We're on the Zoom screen right now with you.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: K. It's this toolkit is now online. It's also available in print forms. You can download it as a PDF, and you can also work with this toolkit offline. But this is the brain dump for everything anyone who had anything to do with actually recovering the state, who, like, mucked and gutted, who remediated molds, who had to coordinate volunteers, who worked with municipalities, who helped people with buyouts. All of those people contributed to this tool, and it's it's really like everything we use. All of our Instagram posts about, like, how to pack a go bag and, what to do with your pets. All of that is in on this website now. And there's all of these different modules, like emergency preparedness and response, where you can work on getting ahead of the game and getting your supplies together. There's checklists that are interactive. Like, we're gonna need some trash pumps. We're gonna need some transfer pumps. We're gonna make we need we're gonna have to have an insane amount of contractor bags and goggles and Tyvek suits. Do we have them? So there's these interactive checklists that really are helping people, we hope oh, shoot. Can you not see this?

[Unidentified committee member]: No. We can. Really

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: helping people prepare for future disasters and build hubs in their own communities. And this is work that we're, like, continually trying to get funded. It's incredibly underfunded. But, again, I my main my main message to you, all of you, is that at any opportunity you can, if you wanna really keep Vermonters in their homes, save money for the state, invest in solutions that are actually working on the ground, invest in small municipalities and small organizations and small solutions because we're really out here doing the work. And I know that there's another narrative happening in the state, and I one of my goals was just to, like, show the fruits of our labor and just to say that, like, we really are a fierce contender out here because it's we care. We we live here, as you all do too. So, I think I think that's that's, like, the primary thing that I have to say with this presentation. And I think that's it for this, and I'm gonna stop sharing my screen. And then I just wanna, like, hammer out a couple more points if I have time.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: So let me ask you

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: a question real quick, though. Yeah. What is the the primary source of the money that you're using for supplies material, like, you know, any of this integrated, like, tech app technology that's not being graciously donated to you?

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Yeah. Vermont Community Foundation

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: K.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Was one of the primary funders for Nico and for other long term recovery groups. They've really stepped in. Private donations and contributions, just from other people in the kingdom sending money after the flood. We've also written some grants with in partnership with and, like, the land access and opportunity board. Are you all familiar with them?

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: Yep.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Yep. Great. So the land access and opportunity board has been working really closely with us to attempt to get us some funding, to build out these resilience hubs. And I think there's some money right now, but some of it's very contingent on the budget adjustment act. And I think any sort of any money that can go to LA OB is money well spent as well. Because they're at the they're at the crossroads of grassroots mutual aid efforts and municipalities, plus, like, land planning. Like, it's really important that Vermont has a a state, a local buyout program. And it's also really important that once we buy people out, they have somewhere to go. Because the value of that home pre flood is based obviously on the grand list. And a lot of people can contest their tax value of their home because they're on a limited income. And so when they go through the buyout program, they're getting this much smaller amount of money than their home is actually worth. And in the inflated housing market, it's so difficult for people to actually find an alternative home for themselves. And so we need to also support municipalities in identifying land for homes, that's outside of the floodplain. And I think Plainfield has been like a tremendous example of this, obviously. And I think the Land Access and Opportunity Board wants to proliferate models like that. And so funding for them is, like, incredibly essential. But we kind of, like, by the skin of our teeth do we get this funding? And I would say VCF is our biggest

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: partner. Okay.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: No. I think I I just wanted to get an understanding of, like, who is having support you right now with, just the resources and dollars because, I know there's appropriations requests within the bill, towards the end of it. So I just wanted to understand what what you had for resources for now.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Yeah. I appreciate that. Are you all still hearing me talk? No. There's other people who need to go. Is that right?

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: We have one other person for testimony, but we have, we still have time. We have our next order of business is 02:00. And fortunately for everyone, I'm the sponsor of the bill. So take your time. Okay.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Alright. Well, then I'm I'm gonna say a couple more things. Alright. So like I mentioned, to be effective, we need to get money to municipalities and and agencies that are not state agencies. And we need to be we wanna work in collaboration with VEM and our regional planning commissions. And we we want to be really ensure that this bill like, their former version of the Flood Omnibus bill from last year before it reached the senate really emphasized the importance of importance of long term recovery groups and mutual aid groups, and I would love to see that language, and that emphasis put back into this legislation before it gets before crossover. And I think both pointing toward towards, like, former versions of this bill, but then also the people's demands for just flood recovery. The People's Demands for Just Flood Recovery, which will be linked to my testimony if you wanna access it, was also written by people who were on the ground responding and was signed on by, like, 60 different organizations throughout the state. And it has it has broad based grassroots support, and it could really serve as a template for just some guidelines for, like, does our current legislation match what the people who are doing this work need it to do? And if you if you wanna answer that question, that's the place that I would look. And then what else is I gonna say? Okay. The thing about state agencies is so interesting because, like, here we are. We have a long term recovery group in The kingdom. There's 11 throughout the state. The state decides to invest in DRUM, stands up an entirely different long term recovery group, and it just came under immense scrutiny for its use of contractors, which bled that organization of, like, a million something millions of dollars. There's an article in Grist by Tick Root about this this dilemma. And I think, that's something to just keep in mind about, like, the way, like, FEMA has been operating with contractors and then also, like, not really not wanting that to continue to happen in this state. And if we can channel money to people who are on the ground who can make a lot of use of this money, that, again, is just money well spent. I wanted to show you I wanted to emphasize what Teresa was saying about the this $5,000,000 allocation in this bill that's that could come to the kingdom, and I really wanna advocate for that. And the way I wanna show you that is by sharing my screen and showing you, like, some of our other data. And this is a project. We use monday.com as a project tracker for all of our construction projects and all of our, survivor data. And I just wanna show you the numbers of bridges, culverts, driveways, river erosion that are on this list just to emphasize, like, what Theresa was saying that, you know, the work that impacts these small towns, I mean, what falls on the municipalities to try to cover is, like, is a huge financial burden. And I don't even have a full scope of what that all is. Theresa has a much better understanding. But this is oh, I don't wanna show you people's names. I just wanna show you cases, like, the numbers of cases. So we have nine just just in The kingdom for 2024, we have nine bridges. We have sorry. I'll check it. We this Clean Water Act signifies a partnership we're trying to strike with, Northwoods around, like, river mitigation projects. But this is like these nine homes, are people who would really be at risk of getting flooded catastrophically again because of, like, the way obstructions in the river. And so this is a Clean Water Act program that we're trying to, get people enrolled in. This is a number of just driveways. And, you know, I know a driveway is not in the realm of public assistance, but it is in the realm of individual assistance, and it's not covered by anyone. FEMA doesn't cover it. Long term recovery groups don't cover it. And oftentimes, homeowners can't bear, like, bear the brunt of this expense. So these are all of our driveway cases that are out of our scope. Yeah. Cases in FEMA appeal. So I just wanted to give you kind of a snapshot of, like, some of the other things people are facing and why 5,000,000 to the kingdom for if if the FEMA declare disaster declaration doesn't go through is so important. And I'm gonna stop sharing that screen. And I think that's it for me, actually. I'm gonna just stop there. I think I've said plenty. And thank you.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Yeah. No. Of course. No. That was a lot of necessary information for us to understand the scale and the scope of what you've been doing, and also how you've created a system without a lot of direct resources from the states. It's very impressive. And if you could share those presentations with the committee for us at some point, like just email them to our committee assistance so we could put them on our page and use them as a resource later. When we continue work on that. It'd be really appreciated because

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: I would absolutely love to. And when the state comes in here and sits down and it's in front of you and tells you that they've got this covered, just remember everything that I showed you today. And and the work that we've done on the ground, like, really, it deserves to be invested in and, like, not undone. It's just so much more efficient. So thank you very much.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Heard. Yes. Thank you. And on queue. How are doing, Anne?

[Ann Brody, American Flood Coalition Action]: Hi there. Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify. And I am really humbled to follow these two powerful local testimonials. It to me really underscores the great work that is underway and poised to continue in Vermont. So, those were not part of my prepared comments. I'll launch into those now. My name's Ann Brody. And on behalf of American Flood Coalition Action, I wanna thank this committee for the opportunity to express our support for this bill that will have, or rather direct various agencies to help communities like the ones you just heard from recover from past flooding while also strengthening resilience for future storms. Give you a little bit of context about who American Flood Coalition Action is, we're the five zero one (four) arm of the American Flood Coalition, which is a nonpartisan, nonprofit coalition comprising more than 500 elected officials, local leaders, municipalities, civic and military groups, and businesses from across the country working together to advance blood solutions at the local, state, and federal levels, and there is a lot that we like in this bill. It is absolutely necessary as the federal government continues encouraging states to step up and supply resources for disaster recovery and resilience. When the state works with communities to recover after a disaster, there is always a chance to rebuild the communities to be able to better withstand the next storm. And that is why we are so excited to congratulate Vermont on this progress, which already surpasses what many states are doing. The state's chief recovery officer leads the state's coordination of recovery efforts, which ultimately helps to bring about long term resilience. And in our work across the country, we have seen that an empowered senior state leaders such as your chief recovery officer is able to efficiently coordinate across agencies and among municipalities, and this coordination ensures that the state is addressing hazards like flooding with consistent and overarching priorities in mind. And I know that the state recovery officer has spoken about how it is a priority for the state to support communities throughout the disaster recovery process because the state hasn't truly recovered until it has adapted to take on the risk during the next major weather event. And so the provisions in this bill position Vermont to recover from disasters more effectively with or without financial assistance from the federal government by providing technical assistance to strengthen the capacity of local governments and encourage smart investments, funding to support long term resilient recovery, and crucially, the voluntary buyouts to give residents the option to end that cycle of repeated loss. The technical and financial assistance that this bill would provide would be instrumental in reducing the burden on local communities, which often lack the capacity to scope out projects, identify funding, and apply to grants all on their own. It is a tremendous undertaking, particularly for smaller or less resourced communities. And so to that end, some of the funding pieces like VEM's technical grant assistance proposed to this bill will help to reduce obstacles for these communities as they take efforts to recover from major flood events and reduce future risk to flooding, as well as the proposed technical assistance and additional funding opportunities through VTrans, which will go even further to lift the burden on communities while making them stronger for the future. I think equally noteworthy is the informed investment in resilience efforts across different agencies that this bill requires. We've seen that by applying a flood risk lens across state funded infrastructure and investments and relevant programs, a state is better able to protect taxpayer resources and improve public safety. We know that an investment in resilience is especially important right now. The UDAS Chamber of Commerce has found that for every $1 invested into flood resilience saves 31 in post disaster economic losses, infrastructure damages, and debris cleanup. And while resilience is the long term goal, the ability for communities to recover disaster really is critically important. After a disaster, it could be almost impossible for many communities to take advantage of grants from the federal government. And that's because federal funding comes in the form of a reimbursement whereby communities first have to make initial recovery payments upfront. And we have seen other states enact or who are at this very moment actively considering post disaster financial assistance mechanisms similar to those that are established in this bill. For example, following Hurricane Helene, North Carolina established bridge loans, giving communities the cash flow needed to pay for a project upfront. And this solution provides communities with the freedom to continue normal operations without needing to wait for federal reimbursement first, because many of them are still waiting. Kentucky was inspired by North Carolina's model and established a similar bridge loan program after it experienced devastating flooding in February. However, Kentucky's eligibility for the loan was tied specifically to the February floods, and so when the state experienced another flood event in April, the initial bridge loan program did not apply to affected communities, And so it is really important that states consider a financial assistance program that operates year round as this bill does. We know that bridge loans are impactful, but they operate under the expectation that the federal government will provide recovery funding. And as federal funding becomes less of a given, it's really important that states think about how best to provide these funds to protect the safety and well-being of their constituents. Another noteworthy aspect of this bill is the establishment of a consistent voluntary buyout program that would help homeowners leave risky locations without perpetuating the cycle of property ownership in those risky locations. This program would allow the state to expand on what it's already done with buyouts that were specifically addressing the 'twenty three and 'twenty four floods, and then build upon that success. With the standing buyout program, the state ensures that residents have access to resources that allow them to relocate out of harm's way. And we have seen successful buyout programs like this across the country from states as diverse and different as New Jersey and South Carolina. And the most impactful programs are funded with state and federal dollars, but allow communities and individuals to decide the methods that make the most sense for them. And Vermont's position to set up a buyout program that reflects these best practices that we've seen encouraging communities to apply to the program on behalf of interested homeowners. Informally, this bill also considers the roles that state agencies beyond emergency management have to play in protecting the state from flood hazards. Specifically, includes new responsibilities for VTrans to rebuild and protect infrastructure assets. Resilient transportation protects communities, improves access to critical services, reduces cascading impacts of transportation failure, and supports statewide economic stability. Sturdy transportation infrastructure reduces recovery time, allowing first responders to provide medical attention and access to food, water, and fuel after disaster events. And with the necessities taken care of, communities can begin to clean up, care for neighbors and rebuild more quickly. The extended provisions of the Municipal Mitigation Assistance Program will enable communities to recover faster by focusing on improvements to emergency access routes for all hazard events. And since different agencies bring a range of expertise related to building resilience to flood events, the state's approach to spreading responsibilities across agencies really is impressive. The Agency of Natural Resources will have a crucial role to play in reducing flood risk by altering rivers and in clearing debris from surface water. And we have seen in states across the country how debris often stays in waterways long after disasters, clogging them up and causing cascading issues unless there's an entity responsible for cleanup. And work like this across agencies ensures that the state will meet the needs of its constituents after floods and in preparation for future weather events. I know we are close on time, and so I will wrap up. This bill encourages smart disaster recovery investments that'll ultimately help to build long term resilience in Vermont. It is about protecting Vermonters and ensuring that they have the resources to rebuild after flood events while supporting stronger infrastructure, safer communities that will prevent further rebuilding in years to come. And with that, thank you so much for your time and for your consideration I'd of this be happy to take questions if the committee has any.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Yeah. No, thank you. And what I'll do right now is I'll open up the table for questions for all of our guests here. So if you have anything for them. Yes, like I said, there's a continuation of workforce. It's like every year it's sort of we're treating this policy like almost like a living document. And we definitely understand the need. And, you know, this is the first point of contact with relevant stakeholders within the bill itself right now. So we plan on doing notable work on this in the coming weeks before crossover and doing our best to get you the resources that we can keep doing the work is definitely the goal. Any questions from the table? Before we shift gears to the next order of business? No. Thank you so much. And, if anything pops up during the continued testimony on this, we're bringing in people from other aspects of government and or other communities, and you're watching things and you have questions or comments or feedback, please don't feel shy. You very much have an open door with this committee.

[Theresa Perrin, Town Administrator, Town of Glover]: Thank you very much.

[Ann Brody, American Flood Coalition Action]: Thank And if we at AFC and AFCA can help connect the committee with folks at other states who are administering the buyout programs that we've cited or some of the other financial programs, if that would be useful to the committee, we'd be happy to facilitate those conversations.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: I appreciate that more than you know. All right, thank you very much. And that sets us briskly to the next order of business.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: Mister Devlin, how are you? Well

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: well, I don't get the chair.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: It's been so long. I know. Real meth. Snow. And I think what

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: we'll do is we'll run through this, and then we'll take a quick break, and then get back to the $5.10. It's it's 86.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: So it's a flood of imprintment.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: It is definitely a flood of

[Unidentified committee member]: imprintment. Question.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Fluvial corridors are being aggressively. That

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: is a good word.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: I love that one. Just pulled that out sparingly. Just not going to reuse it.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: It's like a pun.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Would be ready for two.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: Sorry, I must just submit this. That's the book we were

[Unidentified committee member]: looking for. Is this what we were talking about yesterday?

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Knew what we were looking for yesterday that I could not find in my cubby. Yes.

[Unidentified committee member]: I didn't know you were waiting for me. I was just taking the opportunity to stand up.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: No, no, no.

[Unidentified committee member]: I'm glad to sit and step. Okay.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: It's a stagnant day for the body, not the mind.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: I agree.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: That has a very factual statement with the day. Alright, people. We're live. Let's keep it. We are.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Are. Counsel,

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: how are you? Very well. Thank you very much for having me, Chair Birong. And I presume we're talking about H762, the County and Regional Governance Study Committee bill? Yes, we are, sir. Good. So we have the bill as introduced, and this bill proposes to extend the prospective repeal of the county and government sorry, county and regional governance study committee and its associated report deadline. Just briefly, in addition to that, we'll kind of restructure how the chair is chosen and ever so slightly expand its scope of what its powers and duties will entail the committee to be looking at. So, would the committee like any background on the

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: I think that would be helpful for them. Yeah. I mean, I've actually not only believed it briefly. Your context will explain why. Sure.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: So I've asked the committee's webpage, the updates not only have the bill, but the report that came out of the county and regional governance study committee. And let's see. I think it's a fruit. That was provided to legislature on 11/05/2025. So not too long ago. It's a relatively brief report because the committee's, work was essentially, kinda clipped and really, didn't have the opportunity to, fulfill its mission, largely because of, elections and recomposition of board membership. But the work today is documented in that report, and it's a useful resource just to understand the context where this bill is coming from and why. It's probably necessary to, extend both the deadlines for the committee itself and really its reporting requirements too. So for additional background, see, was acts and resolves 2024 number act number one eighteen that created the county and regional government study committee to address global local government capacity challenges, enhance and address public safety, regional collaboration and planning, efficient, equitable, and transparent public resource allocation, and effective regional public services for individuals and municipalities. And just to peppering a little more historical context, this was in the aftermath of the flooding that Vermont saw two years in a row. And I believe there was some of initial difficulties in federal funds being received by Vermont because of at least the perceived typically how FEMA will go about is working through the county level governance of states, but we don't really have a robust county governance structure here in the state. And so the company was going to have that in mind while looking at exactly what is current role of county and regional governance, which I should say not necessarily the same thing. And so how to facilitate relationships with other government entities, namely the federal government in the context of emergency management planning and response. So, let's see, and we'll get to the duties of what that committees has because of our actually in the body of the bill here too. And let's see. The committee did meet three times over the 2024, namely to orient itself with the topics and take, testimony took testimony from 10 witnesses and it's an appendix in the report detailing exactly who and what was presented. Witnesses presented on various things concerning the legal underpinnings and of the country county and regional governance in Vermont, from myself, the construction of regional government entities in the state and others, and the relationship between Vermont's governance structures and receipt of federal disaster relief funding, as I just kind of alluded to earlier. And again, the committee's work was, I think it's fair to describe somewhat disrupted by the twenty twenty four election and subsequent committee reassignment process, resulting in two new co chairs. And with the loss of continuity in co chairs and accompanying institutional knowledge, the study committee's work was disrupted by, this transition and paused pending reorganization. The study committee is newly composed, met in the interim to really only approve that report, which again is relatively brief. And that brief report did, offer a few recommendations, really just the extension of the committee, its existence and its reporting, so that the committee would have ample time to really, assume the charge doing initial. That's really it, as far as the history in nutshell. Anybody like me to unpack any particulars or okay. So turning to the bill itself, it will let's see. So section one, 2,024 acts and resolves, acts number one eighteen, section one is amended to read. And here we have basically, all the enabling authority for the committee, as well as enumeration of its powers and duties, as well as the reporting information. Some of it has been of omitted just because we're not really changing it. So whenever you see those kind of three stars in a row, just know that there are other, parts of the bill that certainly in its original form existed but are just not being amended by this. So first, have membership. And this gets to how really less about the membership, but how the committee elects its or how the chair is determined. So first the committee shall elect its chair from among its members. And we'll see kind of breaking across the bottom of page one to two here, the removal of the language which had a ex officio mechanism for putting in the chairs that is they were just the chairs of this committee, House Government Operations Military Affairs, and sister in the Senate Committee, chair of Senate Government Operations. Those were the chairs of this committee. And so that will be removed and instead of two co chairs, we'll just have one chair now to be elected from the members of the committee overall. Any questions there? Okay. Now we'll go down to halfway through page two to the powers of

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: I guess, like, it's not really not a question, but more of a construction sort of statement on that with it's doing it this way is a more traditional format, more common format for these than the previous language, if I recall. Or I'm speaking correctly to that. That's a

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: fair characterization. Committees only have one chair for mainly organizational reasons. Avoid the two popes kinda

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: So, yeah, we just had the adjustment to that member. So,

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: powers and duties are being mended simply to add one additional item. So the committee shall study and make recommendations to the general assembly on how to improve the structure and organization of county and regional government, including, skip to lunch to be included, new subdivision J, the agency of administration's role in responding to all hazards events. And that term are, all hazards events. It's just what we refer to as disasters of any kind, by and large, including natural disasters. And then we go down, further on page three to subsection e report, and we change the report deadline from 11/01/2025 to December year, 2026. Okay. And then further down under, subdivision subsection f for meetings, subdivision four, we change the, cease to exist date from 07/01/2026 to 07/01/2027. And then this actual these changes shall take effect on passage. Any questions for council? It

[Unidentified committee member]: might be for you actually. So, so there's a report that's due in December 2026, And then the committee ceases to exist 07/01/2027. What are those seven months for?

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: It's so this here's the structure of the previous one. And I could just sort of if there was anything to sort of come after the fact that sort of report yields legislation, perhaps there's a use for the committee to be there structurally during the following legislative sessions.

[Unidentified committee member]: Thank you.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: And the one thing I do just want to flag for the committee is just under the powers and duties, having conversations in and around that. This is a very large scope of work for legislative study committee. And so, one of the things I would ask the community to do is think about working towards refining this charge away.

[Unidentified committee member]: I have another question. It seems like a very large job for community. Why does it outlast for the entirety of the biennial rather than just one year?

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: I think it's about the, like, reward delivery date and then the follow-up session. And so if there was a need for it to continue this function and exercise we're doing right now to the extent it could Deemed it necessary for the following year,

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: but we can talk about that.

[Unidentified committee member]: Just have it sunset in 2028 and then you don't have to go back and look at it again.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: No, I think that's a valid conversation. Yeah.

[Megan Whalen, former Co‑Director, Northeast Kingdom Organizing (NEKO) and President, CURVE]: Like the idea and maybe to have them submit a preliminary report.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: The two reports. You know, we're already doing markup. Yeah. No, no, It's like everybody is very there's a lot of people, including myself, who want to see this thing to continue to get moving. And it did hit a a very unfortunate stall in this configuration of members. So but we're but but refining the the scope of the work, you know, is, I think, probably the most direct thing we need to do on this, the first thing we should really move it along and start talking about. So, I have some thoughts on it, that's not what we're doing right now. We're just going through the words on the page of counsel.

[Unidentified committee member]: No, we want to do we want to amend it. That's just Just kidding.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Get out the red pen. Let's do this. What a good red pen day. Alright. Any questions for mister Devlin?

[Unidentified committee member]: No. Thank you, Tim.

[Rep. Matthew Birong, Chair]: Thank you, Tim. And so we are gonna we're gonna write on schedule for that fifteen minute break. That was dense. That was a lot, but all useful information. We'll be back at 02:30 to take up the Danville charter for a discussion and vote. And with that, who's next? Take us off.

[Tim Devlin, Legislative Counsel]: It's the gentleman that wants

[Ann Brody, American Flood Coalition Action]: us to.