Meetings
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[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: My first year We are live. Alright, welcome back everyone. It is after lunch, 1PM. And we are taking up continued conversation on the act relating to the approval of the amendments to the Charter of the Town of Essex. And we had, like, one or two questions for counsel for clarification. And I know that representative Pinsonault was workshopping some language on the posting of updates. So, let's get to it. Representatives of Essex, good to see you again. Thank you for your time.
[Unidentified Essex Representative]: Thank you for having us.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Thank you. Yes. And let's see. So what is I'm just refreshing my document page. I guess, shall we start with counsel?
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Good afternoon. Tucker Anderson, Legislative Council at your disposal. Yes.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: The language in minutes. That
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: was on, page six of the as introduced version in section two zero six of the charter related to record of proceedings, specifically in subsection b, which starts right at the top page six.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yeah, it's all taken. And so, made meetings singular, and we took the words next meeting and adjusted that to select board as soon as it's reasonably possible. Struct board. Mean, it reads clean to me on its surface. I guess I'll ask the representatives from athletics their thoughts on the language proposal.
[Unidentified Essex Town Representative]: I'm sorry, I missed what was said, I haven't seen it in writing yet. I heard as soon as reasonably possible.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes, on our committee page, we have the new draft language. It's at the top of page six.
[Unidentified Essex Town Representative]: Okay. If you could give me a moment to get there, please.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yeah, no, no, no. Absolutely.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: I want to get us introduced.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Just to clarify, to my knowledge, there's no new language. It's just
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Oh, I'm looking. Language. Sorry. I completely ran over that.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: It's five sixteen. And, if it would be helpful to bring the committee back to your last discussion. You questions about whether this would override the general requirements of the open meeting law. Mhmm. The open meeting law does not require approval of minutes, and the deadline for the hosting of minutes and for the availability of those minutes under different structure, but the Public Records Act is within five business days. It's very express. And for those following along at home, that would be in one VSA three twelve b one and specifically for the postings b two. My testimony last time was that if it is the town's intent to, someone on the Zoom has to mute themselves. Thank you. Sorry.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: That's
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: okay. If it's the town's intent to go beyond the five business day deadline of the open meeting law, this language should be more express in the charter. Remember that the Dillon's rule, rules of construction for courts here is that, any authority that a municipal corporation, wishes to exercise, the courts will construe a legislative grant of that authority against the municipal corporation. So if there's any ambiguity or doubt as to what the general assembly was authorizing under the provisions of a charter, that interpretation is going to go against the municipal corporation and in favor of retained authority by the general assembly. Assembly. Because of that judicial gloss, recommendation is that if the committee wants to allow the town of Essex to use potentially more than five business days to post this information or to make it available upon request, then, the language in this subsection b should be made more express. For example, notwithstanding one BSA three twelve b two or adding a clause that expressly allows the town to go beyond five business days or the posting of minutes. Okay.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: No. And apologies. I had other amended language on a different charter stuck in my head. So apologies for that. Yes. So the I mean, I always caution myself about asking you what language would sound like on the fly. But for the sake of that, what would language sound like on the fly?
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Following the language that states that the minutes of each meeting shall be approved by the select board as soon as is reasonably possible, add another clause and may be posted later than the five business days required by one BSA three twelve b two or similar language. Acknowledging that I am drafting on the fly, not on paper, but out of my mouth.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And I respect your ability to do so, and at least a frame, so we have an understanding. Repiznall.
[Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault (Member)]: A little hesitant to changing it just for the town of Essex, thinking that more towns would come forth saying that they want to do the charter changes to allow them as well. But the minutes, you have five days to post the minutes, but they can be a draft form. So, is that unreasonable if you had a Saturday meeting, you'd have until Thursday to post some sort of draft minutes?
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes. That's a question.
[Unidentified Essex Town Representative]: Yes. If I may, the town is not looking to extend the five day requirement for post draft minutes. We've been in compliance with that. The intention is to remain in compliance with that. I think if it's a matter of clarity to say notwithstanding one VSA three twelve secondtion e one, I don't think that would change the intent. What the town's intent to this is really we approve the minutes. The town of Essex Charter requires the select board to approve the minutes in addition to the posting the draft. The way it's written right now is that the minutes will be approved by the board at the next avail at its next meeting. That is not always possible. So we're looking to have the approval of the minutes happen as soon as reasonably as as soon as is reasonably possible, we have Ben, still would be in compliance with open meeting law and posting the draft within five days. That's not this is not intended to change that at all.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: So,
[Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault (Member)]: my thought, the last time we heard this, I'm saying that it would be posted. It would be able to be posted the next meeting because. Meeting might come right then and then that five day period.
[Unidentified Essex Town Representative]: No, and I apologize. I'm sorry.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: That's okay.
[Unidentified Essex Town Representative]: Yeah, I apologize if that was not made clear at the last one. It's just the approval of the minutes. If we have a Saturday meeting, we would still have the draft posted within five days, regardless of another meeting in between. It's just the approval of those minutes is that that's the hang up for the town of Essex.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: So we're comfortable with Yep. Okay. And then, apologies, I'm going to dig back into my notes, but there was I feel like in this conversation, there was two pieces where there was a, like if the language was similar in another municipality or if there was a like, look back at something. I'm just trying to go back into my notes right now.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. There was the question about whether any other munis corporations have the authority in their charter to deem an office vacant if the officer has not attended 50% of the meetings. And the answer is yes. There are other municipal corporations that have this in their charters. An example that I would share with you is in 20 title 24 appendix chapter one twenty six section 25. That's the town of Linden charter and the section of their charter governing vacancies in town offices. When an elected officer moves, the officer's residence outside of the town dies, becomes incapacitated, that office shall become vacant. And in addition, if a member of the select board fails to attend at least 50% of select board's meetings in any calendar quarter, the member's office may be declared vacant by the vote of the majority of the select board held at a warned meeting. So not only is there this threshold requirement for attendance of meetings, but in Lynden, it is in a quarter, not just annually. Mhmm.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Is that a hand wrap, Morgan? Yes. Yes. Please.
[Michael Morgan (Member)]: Does that include or exclude if somebody Zooms into the meeting? Let's say they're on a business trip. And are are you all looking to consider that an absence, or is that considered attending?
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes, think that's a question for Essex. Yeah, on the intent.
[Unidentified Essex Town Representative]: I'm sorry. Yeah, no, that somebody would be present. We, again, in compliance with open meeting law, we allow for hybrid meetings. Members do occasionally attend, hybrid, whether they're on vacation or away on a business trip or sick, but able to attend, at home. And they they are they're considered present and active at the meeting.
[Michael Morgan (Member)]: But but, yeah, I think that's a reasonable compromise.
[Unidentified Essex Representative]: Mhmm.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you. Is that the only other one that he has for a follow-up on a clarification if it's done somewhere else?
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: There was one other, request that had come in, and it was raised by, some folks from the town. I believe Andy Watts was given the credit for identifying this, but there was an inconsistency in the appointment powers in the charter, specifically that there was an officer that could simultaneously be appointed by the select board or by Manager. Town manager. So there was the request to amend the bill as introduced to strike that appoint an authority from the section related to the town manager.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Mhmm. Alright.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: So, leaving the authority under this one. So, that would be page nine, section four zero two, and it's the cemetery commissioners. If you're looking at line 10, existing language in the charter in section four zero two grants appoints an authority to the town manager with approval of the select board. So striking that is the proposal. Page nine, line 10. Last clause on that line.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Attorney, it's not presented. I see Terry. So that's just after the if needed?
[Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault (Member)]: How did the phone change?
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Right. The request, as I understand it, is to strike cemetery commissioners at the end of line 10.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Oh, just that? Just that.
[Unidentified Essex Representative]: Alright.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes. Rapid office. I wanna make sure because I'm reading it that I'm reading right because that confused me on the last time when we looked through this. So striking it up there for cemetery commissioners off the line 10. And then as we go back down to line 14, if the select board fails to appoint within forty five days after the position becomes available and the account manager could then appoint
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Right.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Even though we've struck it up top.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: That's correct. But there's the contingency there is that within forty five days of the vacancy, select work has taken no action.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Mhmm.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: So it's separate from the default and general authority to appoint the members of the commission. And if you go back to page seven on line three within section two zero eight of the charter, the cemetery commission has been moved under the appointment authority of the select board. Okay.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: So that intersects with that. Okay. That's want to make sure.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: And I can prepare if that is something the committee wants, can prepare that amendment this afternoon for you.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Does that sound amenable to the representatives for Essex?
[Unidentified Essex Town Representative]: Yes, that sounds great. We apologize for the oversight. And yeah, just confirming that line 10 of page nine cemetery commissioners can be struck and that has been added to the select board's appointment authority.
[Unidentified Essex Representative]: Okay.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And then we had the clarification on those other pieces that do occur elsewhere in this way. So, as we stated, teeing up this week, this is one of the things we flagged to try and wrap up this week. So, is there comfortable with these changes? So, we can get that drafted and then get this listed for vote? Alright. Excellent. All right. And that sounds like a good timeline for you folks from Essex.
[Unidentified Essex Representative]: That sounds great. Thank you. Okay. Wonderful.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: I guess we'll move on to the next order of business then. Barring further questions on this. Yes. Alright. Cool. Thank you very much, folks. We're gonna move on to a Burlington conversation now.
[Unidentified Essex Representative]: Thank you. Thank you for the consideration.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Thank you. You're welcome.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Thank you.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Alright. The one I actually language. We are moving over to five zero eight, and act approving act related to approval of amendments to the charter of the city of Burlington, and this is the ward boundary conversations. So we have new draft for that available on the page. And council, in draft.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Alright. You should have in front of you draft 1.1 of a committee strike all amendment for h five zero eight, approval of amendments to the charter of the city of Burlington. The amendment is fairly simple to explain. Still contains the same language in section one, approving the charter amendments. In section two, section two now only contains those provisions that the bill is introduced related to the reapportionment of voting wards. So that's striking the existing ward boundary language within the charter and replacing it with the discretionary authority that the committee covered last time you visited this bill, keeping election area boundaries in place until changed by the city council, which is authorized to make changes from time to time to the boundaries of the election areas. The election area changes shall not be made more frequently than once in five years and shall be approved by the voters in the annual special meeting in the city to become effective immediately unless a later date is established by the city meeting vote. And that is all within the strike alt. The provisions that were removed were the residential tenancy notice provisions that were contained within the original bills introduced.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yeah, and those landlord tenant conversations are occurring in the respective chambers and committees of jurisdiction for housing. So, that is, that is up and running a sustained line policy debate. Does anybody have questions on this boundary language? I mean, we did, you know, we had we did learn through this that it seems this is kind of a relic within the process that other municipalities have this authority. So it's not something new. Seems like this is actually a little bit the outlier. All right.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: I concur.
[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: All right. Cool. Yes, counsel. One thing that I would note, because I promised partners and state government that I would mention this from time to time when the charters are coming up. Vermont Center for Geographic Information likes it when there are definite boundaries for the things that they have to map. I'm not sure that it would come into play here for the voting ward boundaries within the city, but it is worth noting that you are eliminating known boundaries that they may have to map in the future. So just putting it out that it doesn't stop the city from coordinating with BCGI in the future to upload new maps, but wanted to make sure that I noted that.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you for that. That's a good, great point. Does that change anybody's comfort with possible vote? Slice pops on the train.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: I'm lukewarm about that. It'd be kind of nice to hear from them about boundary changes.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: That entity getting clear?
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Yeah, that entity. I'm trying to think how it intersects with what Berlin wants to do. Does it really matter? Because Burlington is to remain the boundaries of Burlington, it's just how it's divided up.
[Michael Morgan (Member)]: I think that's kind of what you were saying, Tucker.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: The interior of those I think I'm comfortable with it as long as the outer boundaries stay in place. I was just going to say
[Unidentified Committee Member]: it may be interesting to bring them in just as a freestanding conversation, but as far as the relevance to this still, because what he said, I don't feel like it's going to impact my opinion on this.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: It would be
[Unidentified Committee Member]: cold just to have them in. Because Latkes Square may be a scenario where it does have impact. Right.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yeah. Because we're talking about, like, internal boundaries to the municipality. Right? Like, where I have three of my towns are currently Hatfield and McCoy over their boundaries within their charter structures. Representative Hooper of Burlington.
[Philip Jay Hooper (Member, Burlington)]: I would just advocate to I mean, it makes the charter simpler with the construction that's going on and down. Boundaries will need to change for the ward system. So it, you know, keeps it from having to come back to us, makes more sense representation wise.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: So are you still comfortable moving forward with the vote? Okay. Before we get to actually calling the role, I don't think we signed a reporter of the bill on this yet. She was Essex. Oh, that's right.
[Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault (Member)]: This is perfect.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: I'm looking at the two members from Burlington. Not it. Representative Hooper of Burlington. Aye. Aye. Okay. That's an aye to the reporter of the bill.
[Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault (Member)]: That way you say aye? Or was he voting
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: on the He did both. Yeah. You just volunteered to report the bill, Bob.
[Robert Hooper (Member, Randolph)]: I'm aware of that.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Oh, good. I just want to make sure that was clear on the record. Clear and on the record. Alright. I've done this in a while. Barring further discussion, I'll move that we find h five zero eight. Favorable. Draft number 1.1. Fact relating to the approval of amendments to the charter of the city of Burlington. Favorable? With amendment. Thank you for that. The caveat with amendment. With amendment. Burke will call the roll.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: I believe we need to. A second.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: A second. Thank you. I'll second it. Alright. We've got a second over there. See. Rusty.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Boyden. Yes. Representative Pinsonault. Yes. Representative Morgan.
[Michael Morgan (Member)]: Yes.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Hooper of Burlington?
[Philip Jay Hooper (Member, Burlington)]: Yes.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Coffin? Yes. Representative Stone? Yes. Representative Hooper of Randolph? Representative Nugent? Yes. Representative Waters Evans? Yes. Representative Byrones?
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yes.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: Representative Hango? Yes. Ten-one.
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: We finally have something to send to the clerk's office. Process, yes, we'll process the present. We are very much ahead of schedule right now. We want to just start Bennington stuff, and we'll just have welcome in later. We want to take a break.
[Lucy Boyden (Clerk)]: I have to Well,
[Matthew Birong (Chair)]: we'll take a break for a few minutes. We'll get this load up to the clerk's office so you can take us off for a few. That was risk charter