Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: You're live. Thank you. Welcome back to House Government Operations and Military Affairs. It is Thursday at 01:00, and we have with us Vermont Access Network. And Lauren Glendavichian is the Public Policy Director. And I will turn it over to you.

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: Thank you, Representative Hugo. And thank you, everyone. I'm Lauren Glendavidian for the record. I'm the public policy director at CCTV Center for Media and Democracy, which is based in Washington. And I also represent Vermont Access Network, which is a statewide coalition, as you know. Also, Malvane Stanik is joining us, they are the Executive Director of Central Vermont Community Radio. And they will be able to answer any questions that you may have. I'm going to run through our presentation. I think you are well, know you are familiar with us. It's always nice to be back with this committee, especially in your relatively new committee, DIGS, so comfortable. We're here to discuss our FY twenty seven budget request, and this is part of the Secretary of State's budget. And this year, we're asking for 1,890,000.00 out of the general fund to support statewide community media services. This is a combined request with community radio, so we were encouraged by Senator Perchlich and other members of the legislative community and the Secretary of State to work together with community radio, who received some funds last year for emergency, to support emergency response. So our combined response is one, request is 1,800,000.0 for van and 90,000 for the radio stations. There are 24 access management organizations, that's the TV side, and there are nine community radio stations that are part of this. And these are nonprofit FM radio stations operated over the air, and as you know, we air on cable, and we all are online. We'll talk a little bit about our reach in a moment. Together, our 33 media organizations deliver a range of services that include live broadcasting, news, weather reports, public meetings, event coverage, and we serve as a vital part of local emergency response to grease the wheels of local democracy, and we preserve community history. We are trusted, reliable, and an essential service. We also amplify arts and culture and teach everyday Vermonters how to be media makers, enabling them to gain valuable job and civic skills in the process. That is a great picture of Miss Vermont, Miss Vermont and I think Miss Young Vermont, Junior Vermont, at radio station at WOOL. So, it's interesting. We did an analysis of our reach that I think has always been a question, not always been a question, but it's hard on the TV side to figure out how many people are watching on cable TV. So we do have an online way of measuring now. But also, just in terms of the communities that we serve, we did an analysis of the towns and cities and villages, and we serve 13 of the 14 counties. We don't have any reach in Essex at this point. And we reached 94% of the state's population, they are within our range. And in 2025, collectively, produced about thirty five thousand hours of originally locally made programming, which is quite significant when you think about the other statewide outlets that are operating. It's each number. We engage thousands of Vermonters as listeners and viewers while putting more in front of the camera and microphones to produce local content, and we connect communities to each other, their elected officials, and to what's happening every day. So this is a nice little map that shows you that reach. The PEG TBE is in black, and then the white are the radio stations, and there are four centers that overlap that either include a radio station in their TV operations, media operations, or are closely aligned with one. 70% of Vermont municipalities have access to live public meeting coverage. And the 24 PEG centers operate 80 channels and a statewide channel and produce about fifteen thousand hours a year of TV. Here you see in the bottom corner, and it's also in your handout, the nine community radio stations listed in the other centers. And over 300 Vermonters produce weekly radio shows and coverage for local emergency events, and the result is fifteen thousand hours of radio programming powered by more than 300,000 listeners a year. It's helpful to note, as we know, or good to note, that this local content is free over broadcast radio, the radio, streamed live online, the radio and TV, and on demand in different settings. So, just a few case studies. I thought it would be interesting to highlight. So WGDR and WGDH is the largest of the nine radio stations that are part of the coalition. And in 2025, there were 12,000 broadcast listeners, 17,500 unique live streamers, and the archives were also something that the community relied on, about 13,000 archive listeners. You can also see up here in this little nice infogram, a number of programs that are made, donors, unique screens, the underwriters. These centers and radio stations are integral part of their communities. This is BCTV in Windham County, which also works closely with their local radio station. They're celebrating fifty years, so there has been coverage of public meetings in Brattleboro since the 70s, which is kind of amazing. And this is just a little summary of 44 producers over the year, 2025, about 1,300 programs and a quarter of a million YouTube viewers. That doesn't include the cable side, that's online side. Our center, CCP's Center for Media and Democracy, we produce about 1,800 local programs, 500 of those roughly are municipal meetings, and we average about a half a million program views online. And what's really interesting, I thought, I think, as you know, we have this extensive archives that reaches back to the 80s. We have about 53,000 programs, we're almost done digitizing the whole collection, which is quite an accomplishment. And then, year, there were half a million views of those archives. So, I think the point about being a preserver of community history needs to be underscored. Another corner of the state, GNAT, which works in Bennington County, part of Bennington County. They, again, are training 150 people a year. They have almost 4,000 YouTube subscribers and 300,000 online viewers. So, I think you're getting the gist here that the reach of these centers and radio stations is quite significant. Northwest Access, Franklin County, and they're very well known for their sports coverage, and they cover public meetings, all kinds of events, but sports is like a hit in Franklin County. I think that's true all across the state, in fact. Okay, so your legislative support helps Vermont overcome threats to media access. These include the rapid decline of cable TV revenue. These numbers show about a six to 8% decline that we are experiencing year over year from cable cutting, cord cutting. There are limited funding resources available for community radio. Most of the states operate with $25,000 or less. And there are, as you know, funding pressures on all local media. And of course, emergent times require us to get word quickly out on the chief ranging from weather to government threats. This is a function that community radio serves very well. You can see here this little statistic about streaming reaching its historic TV milestone, eclipsing broadcast and cable viewing for the first time this year.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And then just to underscore the point about there are local news deserts, this is a map of Vermont.

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: So you can see here, the darker the green, the more dark green shows that there's more than four outlets. The lighter green shows that there's two, three, or one outlet. Yellow shows there's one news media outlet in that community, and red shows there's no print media. This is print media outlet in these communities. So Vermont is no longer as well covered as it used to be. And of course, for many media resources, there are paywalls which limit access to content. This is an AI generated image, just wanted to say. But another threat to free and fair media is AI generated news and content, making it hard for people to know what's real. I asked for a quizzical look. I I asked for someone who is upset, a bad guy, and the first picture was a guy, like, this. And I thought, well, make it quizzical. There we go. And, of course, we're also dealing with bias, misleading, and untrue news. That is very divisive, and community media is open to all, and we really lean towards inquiring minds and open tables. I think that's very important to stress. So, legislative funding in FY27 will help community media staff, allow us to invest in equipment and necessary capital upgrades that help create community programming and services for Vermonters. And we once more just found it, as my mother would say, we provide direct access to local information and programming that Vermonters are in need. So, we really appreciate your consideration, and we're happy to answer any questions. Any questions for our witness right now? What percentage of increase is this from the FY twenty six? Last year, we received 1,300,000.0, I think. Maybe it's 1.6. I having my mind gone completely blank.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: I think I have the answer to it. My budget worksheet says 1.35 Thank you, that's it.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Steve, you also spoke to us about the need to have some incremental increases over three years last year when you came to us. Yes. Intrigued and encouraged that the community radio request is in with yours. And I think that's a good move, because you certainly work hand in hand. And I see Lou Mulvaney Stanick on the screen. Welcome, Lou. Nice to see you again. Do you have anything to add to the conversation? Do you have testimony of your own?

[Llu Mulvaney-Stanak (Executive Director, Central Vermont Community Radio/WGDR–WGDH)]: I do have a just a couple quick things to share. Thank you very much, to everybody on this committee. First and foremost, to lead with gratitude, your belief in community radio and understanding the impact we have in the everyday and especially in emergencies last year during the legislative session was the game changer to convince the rest of your colleagues that we were a worthy investment for such a small amount of funding to make a huge impact. So I just really quite generally want to say thank you. I know you all don't hear that necessarily enough, and I just want to make that very clear at the start of the session. To add to what LG was saying, community radio, in a time when community media and media in general is actually reducing, we're having these deserts happening where there's less newspapers happening, less local news, Vermont public receiving that huge federal cut of 10% of their staffing just had to get laid off last summer, community radio was growing. And I know you all heard that in our testimony last year, but we're going from seven stations on the air to 10 stations on the air, and therefore, our impact and our reach to listeners is growing. In addition to that, there's, like, a misinformation out there about people not listening to radio anymore. It's just that they're changing how they listen to radio. People really are actually very eager to have local content that they know they can trust, that they know is actually, covering what's happening in their local communities, and they turn to community radio. And you saw on that slide for WGDR, we are seeing that explosion happen by people shifting to listening online and through their smartphones and, frankly, on demand. So they don't have to catch something live. They can listen back when they want to. Just as a quick comparison, WGDR and WGDH were owned by Goddard College about four years ago, and they transitioned the ownership to us as an independent nonprofit because the writing was on the wall. Goddard knew that they were getting prepared to close. And so to make sure that these stations stayed on the air, they gave gifted it to the community. And under Goddard, that listening stat was around 15,000 total between broadcast and online listeners. Now we're at 45,000 people listening to us between online and broadcast. So it's not by luck. It's totally by design because we have really dedicated ourselves to being much more community centered and have many more local people on the air. And so we're trying to replicate that and model that for the rest of not only community media in the state, but but for the stations, the TV partnerships. There's just so much happening here where we can really uplift each other, and hence why we're coming together with this proposal this year. So the final thing I just wanted to share too is that for the relatively small amount of money that community radio is adding to this ask with Vermont access network, we are gonna have, again, a huge impact here. This is really gonna be a game changer for keeping these stations operationally running and, again, being ready not just for emergencies, but in some ways, I kinda feel like we are in a rolling crisis at this point with needing people to have access to news and, again, information about what's happening locally and how they can be involved in their local democracies, right, their local municipalities and and whatnot. So community radio provides that live coverage, that live ability to turn your radio on or stream it live and know exactly what's happening, you know, in the news of the day, both here in Vermont locally and, of course, what's happening nationally. So I'm really excited about this opportunity to partner. I really appreciate your time today. Happy to answer any more specific questions. I've got a ton of stats I could share with you, but I will keep it at that and see what you actually are interested in.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. Any questions? I do have one myself. It was Could you just explain really briefly for the committee the emergencies that you were referring to last year and how your radio stations helped to bring Vermonters together to know what to do in a crisis?

[Llu Mulvaney-Stanak (Executive Director, Central Vermont Community Radio/WGDR–WGDH)]: Absolutely. Thank you for that question, actually. Actually a humbling thing to answer because WGDR and WGDH went through it twice in back to back summers for our listening So, again, WGDR and WGDH cover all of Central Vermont and up into the kingdom with our broadcast footprint. And so in the floods of the last the significant floods of the last two previous summers well, not last summer, but the summer before that and the one before that, there the summer the two summers ago, Plainfield quite literally went underwater, and WGDR is located on the Goddard campus, which happens to just be on the bluff overlooking the Winooski there. So we were the only high and dry land during that entire very harrowing handful of days when Plainfield pretty much got washed away. And so what we were able to do is come the back I mean, is so Vermont, but we had to come around the back way. We were able to still get to the radio station, and we were broadcasting live with coverage of where the roads were out, where potable water was happening, real time coverage of where people could get get help and give help. Because when these emergencies happen here in Vermont, whether we're talking about these two pretty cast catastrophic flooding events in Central Vermont or up in The Kingdom or going all the way back to hurricane Irene, there's a surge of Vermonters wanting to help, but there is a it's hard to upfit when on the statewide level, both the need to respond to people who need the help and also up you know, ready up people to get out the volunteers and things. And so radio is able to provide both. We're able to congregate and collect all that information, broadcast it in live time, check it down for actual accuracy, which is very important in these days, and point people to where it is. And, frankly, we were able to also take phone calls from people live and be able to update that information from the local municipalities. The two summers prior, when there was the widespread flooding that was happening in Montpelier and in many different areas in Central Vermont, we were one of the first places to connect the dots with folks about what was happening in Marshfield, where there was days and days where there was a disconnect between what was happening with the National Guard and people understanding that there was no potable water in Marshfield. And everyone was, like, confused why people didn't understand this, and we'd been talking about it on the air for that whole week, you know, which was because people were calling in, people were from Marshfield coming to do shows. And so we're kind of a connective thread of both helping the helpers and being part of the help and trying to also do it in a way that is helping people respond, but respond in a calm, collected, planful kind of way, where things can feel, you know, pretty out of control really quickly. In those first couple days after an emergency, it it quickly goes from, like, oh, this is kind of intense to, oh my god. What do we do when our cell phones die, when there's no electricity and there's no Internet? Where are you gonna get that information? And you can turn your radio on from either your little battery operated radio that you've got in your barn or you jump in your your truck and you turn the radio on. And so I had never, in my long history of nonprofits and radio work, I had never actually truly understood the importance of a radio station in an emergent moment, honestly, until those two experiences. And it's something now that we can replicate for our fellow community radio stations around the state for when and if they experience these emergencies like this. And for us, it was floods, but also we do a small scale version of this on days like today when there's icy conditions, when there's snowstorms, when, larger kind of areas of our broadcast area lose power for days on end. Again, we are where people turn to find out information about road conditions and other things like that. So that that's just a quick example of the those two flooding events there.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: That's great. Thank you very much. And sorry, I misspoke the date. It wasn't last summer. It was two summers and three summers ago, Yes,

[Llu Mulvaney-Stanak (Executive Director, Central Vermont Community Radio/WGDR–WGDH)]: you got a summer off. Thank goodness.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Yes, thankfully. So thank you very much for that. So you're really a mutual aid network in lifetime, which is really awesome. I think I have one last question, Lauren Glennon. I'm sorry, I misspoke your last name earlier. The small increase that you're asking for in the budget, do you attribute that to any particular cost? So, it's

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: a combination of the decline of cable revenue and the increase in expenses. Okay. And also, some of it, I mean, radio is 90,000 of it, so it's a marginal increase. But for the community media, we're seeing this revenue decline, and we're also seeing, as everyone is, the increase in expenses. Thank you. Any additional questions for our two witnesses right now? Okay. Well, we really appreciate your consideration. Thank you for having us. Always like to be here and your support.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Apologies for my tardiness folks in the seatbelt, yes. I

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: know We're all aligned, so thank you very much.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: But old school's set up on your stereo there, Lou.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: Yeah. I know.

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: It's just the

[Llu Mulvaney-Stanak (Executive Director, Central Vermont Community Radio/WGDR–WGDH)]: Zoom placement of my of my camera, but, yeah, record player, old school. I I have to, of course, have

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: So thank you.

[Llu Mulvaney-Stanak (Executive Director, Central Vermont Community Radio/WGDR–WGDH)]: Radio in every home. I'll I'll pitch that to the governor. Just thankful.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: One of

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: those hand crank ones. Are we gonna break? I see Sandy on the phone.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Alright, shifting gears. Hi, representative. Hello. Change of vantage point here.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: Yes. So, I'm representative Sandy Pinsonault from Dorset, and I was contacted this past summer from a fellow town clerk from Pollitt. And also spoke with the clerk from Wallingford where a fraudulent sale had happened. And so basically, Pollitt has been hit a couple of times with some fraudulent sales. And unfortunately for being a small town clerk, she was able to stop them for recording the paperwork just by knowing her constituents. Unfortunately, Wallingford did not. And they had a fraudulent land sale that took place by a young couple. They were out driving around, saw a for sale sign by an owner, contacted that owner, had a realtor represent them, had an attorney, did everything right. And the property owner, the real property owner, contacted the town clerk's office that fall to find out why he hadn't gotten a tax bill. She informed him that he had sold the property. And he said, No, I didn't. Meanwhile, the young couple, expecting their first child, had cleared the property, begun foundation work, and started to build a home. Meanwhile, they did some investigation and found out that it was done fraudulently. And fortunately, the attorney's office had title search. Very reputable attorney in her office. And come to find out this past week, the young couple is the son of representative Eric McGuire. So he has lots of information to share with that as well, which I didn't know. I only had information. So that's where it all began. And so, the power of attorney for the sale had been notarized by somebody in Utah, or signed in Utah in front of somebody, and then something else was done in Florida before it got back. So there was a whole bunch of eye catching things that should have been picked up on, but were not. So that's what brought this bill together. There's a lot of things in the bill that since this got announced last couple of days, the town clerk's association is not happy with, because they don't want the responsibility to fall on the town clerk's. And I agree. I think there could be a form process where it would be some sort of identification at either the real estate office or the seller's attorney's office prior to any land documents getting to the template for recording. That something could be proof of an affidavit of some sort proving that they are the sellers that are listed. Go from there. And then that could be recorded prior to any sale coming to the town clerk's office to record it. Because once it comes to the town clerk's office, you have to record it, regardless of what it is. So that's where it's at. Thank you.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: I had a hand from Representative Hooper of Randall.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: Do they know who concocted this fraudulent They do not. Not that I've been aware of in any of this search talking.

[Unidentified Committee Member (likely Rep. Robert Hooper or Rep. Philip Jay Hooper)]: So, basically, came along, decided create the impression that a piece of property was for sale, unbeknownst to the true owners. And then somebody else came along and said, All right, let's do this. And then they just created an artificial sale. To themselves, first. I see.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: So they would attain ownership. Would attain ownership.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: They falsified the initial ownership document and sold

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: the transfer.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: All within a couple of ruche for a short period.

[Unidentified Committee Member (likely Rep. Robert Hooper or Rep. Philip Jay Hooper)]: Ohio and Florida and wherever else.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: Well, no, but just a short time frame so that we sold it to the fraudulent owner. And the fraudulent owner turned around and sold it.

[Unidentified Committee Member (likely Rep. Robert Hooper or Rep. Philip Jay Hooper)]: Because I'm thinking, like, it's a buyer who's represented by a professional. How could they miss this? But it sounds like you just answered that question.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: That's all in the bucket of testimony we're going take on this conversation.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: And it brings up a whole other story as to why we shouldn't be accepting documents through email or through social not social media, that's not the word I want but through online applications. Yep. And then in the Pollock situation, there are people out there that go around looking for open land. And then say, I'm going to sell this piece of land. So it's mostly land sales, it's not so much homes. But this family, they were all in.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Rebecca, go.

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: Do you

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: have any idea if during COVID when documents started becoming transferred electronically more frequently, that incidences like this may have don't. Started coming

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: Most of us won't accept electronic. We do not. Okay. So this was kind of an outlier that there was an electronic It wasn't during COVID,

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: I guess. But electronic documentation or transfers within a closing is allowed. Yes.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: So which part, Rep. Pinsonault, are you saying that documents should not be allowed to be transferred electronically? Which part of the process, to the town clerk? To the town clerk.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: Yeah. Powers of attorneys and stuff like that get swapped back and forth all the time. But the actual document to be recorded should come in a paper form to the town clerk's office and not in an electronic form.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Any further? Seeing no hands. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, representative. I think I may have heard chatter about this at a breakfast with my community bank. So, I have to go check my notes from that, but it's one of the things. Did you have something? No. Okay. Cool. I counsel.

[Unidentified Committee Member (likely Rep. Robert Hooper or Rep. Philip Jay Hooper)]: So the choir's kids are the victims?

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: And the other person who had previously had the property that they didn't know they sold. Alright. So there's actually a double prong victimization.

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: And it's worked. And it's it's

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: it's it worked. I smoke and sweat.

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Oh, good afternoon, Tucker Anderson, legislative counsel. You have in front of you, h six forty five. You've gotten some great narrative background for the, impetus for the bill. Something that I'll note upfront is if you're going to take a look at this issue and move forward with some testimony, one of the things that you will likely wanna do is get a better understanding of the processes involved in land sale transactions. H six forty five depends, a lot on an understanding of the timing around land sale transactions and the pressure that it puts on the various parties involved. And each one of the sections that I'll walk you through is designed to put pressure on every single actor that is involved in a land sale transaction. So there are duties that are applied to every single party.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Mhmm.

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: And I am flagging that up front because as I was told from some experts in this area, applying the duties to every single party involved means every single party is going to hate this proposal. All right. So

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: I already have a little, like, punch list of, trade associations with us over this one.

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. And, also want to put this out there that the cases of fraud are not isolated to any particular community. There have been a handful over the last year. They involve fraudulent recordings, but also relate to fraudulently intercepted wire transmissions between prospective buyers and attorneys. So there's fraud at multiple levels of real property transactions in the state, most of it taking place electronically. And one of the difficulties in resolving fraud in these transactions is that if the individual who is defrauding the buyers and the sellers is carrying out fraud through every single document, it can sometimes be difficult to trace because they're sometimes fraudulently acting as an attorney, as a notary public, you know, as a party to the transaction. So, the town clerk's, just as an example, could be receiving multiple recorded instruments for recording that are all fraudulent, but that appear to be genuine.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: I have a hand from Randall.

[Unidentified Committee Member (likely Rep. Robert Hooper or Rep. Philip Jay Hooper)]: Would it be conceivable to you that a computer could emulate to these instances of flooding without the direction of this human being?

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: Is it conceivable to me?

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Yeah. Because Yes.

[Unidentified Committee Member (likely Rep. Robert Hooper or Rep. Philip Jay Hooper)]: Can you file it?

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: I could conceive of that. I don't know whether that's something that happens in practice, but you should, maybe moving forward with a lot of the issues you'll see in this committee, keep in mind that the evolving universe of artificial intelligence and statistical machine learning could occupy a space in any of the issues that will come up this session. So, starting in section one on page two, it adds a new section eleven fifty nine a to title 24 to establish a procedure for expedited or delayed endorsement and reporting. To take a step back, Less than a decade ago, there was a small change within title 24, to finally determine in Vermont law when an instrument was officially deemed recorded, which is an important legal step. And under title 24, the official recording takes place when it is endorsed with the date and time of receipt by the town clerk. So manipulating just that one little piece of legal certification is what the entire bill is resting on. Why? Because until you have the official recording, the property itself is open to other instruments being recorded against it, and, specifically, I am talking about liens. And liens can be, detrimental to secured interest in the property. For example, a lender's interest, a mortgage. Right? An intervening lien could really impact a lender's claim to a property in the case of foreclosure if it is behind in time in the recording process. So manipulating the endorsement by the town clerk is one of the ways, certainly not the only way, that you can put pressure through time on the varying parties that are involved. That is why endorsement is chosen, at least for now, and the bill is introduced as the point in the process to put time pressure on the parties. So in subsection a, prior to endorsing a certificate on an instrument conveying any interest in real property, the town clerk shall verify that the grantor, grantee, attorney, a whole list of professional parties here, broker or salesperson for the grantor, grantee, title insurer, or mortgage lender is either. Okay? This is an or. One, registered with the Secretary of State as a secure real property transactor. So there would be a public facing registry that would be searchable. Or has submitted documentation concerning the verification of the grantor's identity using a platform that has been approved by the Secretary of State. So either they're already on the list of registered transactors or they submit some sort of evidence that they have verified their identity through a platform that is found through by the secretary of state. Subsection b, town clerk is directed to prioritize and expedite the endorsement of instruments that meet the requirements of subsection a. So if there's been verification, that recording is expedited. It's given priority in the stamping process from the town clerk that says the date and time that the instrument is recorded. So a little small caret. Subsection c. Town clerk is not able to I to verify the information required by subsection a. The clerk shall provide notice to the parties that the instrument shall not be endorsed or deemed recorded until the date that the required information is received or fifteen days after the date the instrument was submitted, whichever is sooner. So the process would be, if it's a verified transactor, stamped, record it. If it is not verified, either searchable on that public facing list, or they haven't submitted a document saying, I have used this platform approved by the Secretary of State, then the town clerk issues a notice saying, it's gonna be fifteen days or the date by which you submit the evidence. And it puts it in personal stance. Subsection d, the secretary of state is directed to maintain a list of approved platforms that can be used to verify grantor identities and a real property transfer. The secretary may adopt procedures governing the requirements that a platform has to meet. At minimum, those procedures establish minimum standards for the identity documents that can be used by the platform, data privacy and security, and methods for verifying the grantor is the person submitting the identity documentation. Okay. The secretary shall maintain a registry in subsection e. The person may register to be a real property transactor by submitting to the secretary of state registration fee, a statement that the person is one of the parties that is of concern here, and in subdivision three, documentation that demonstrates the person uses an approved platform to verify the identity of the grantor in a transaction. The grantor is the seller. Subsection f, a person's registration, shall expire one year after the date of the registration, and the transactor shall notify the secretary of state and amend their registration if at any point during the term they begin using a different identity verification platform. So previous section establishes the system it will be used, requires facing registry, and puts the duty on the clerk to determine whether the grantor or other party is on that list within the registry. And if not, then to not endorse and record the instrument until the requirements are satisfied. Subsections two and three relate to realtors. So first, it adds a criteria to the unprofessional conduct statute related to real estate brokers that failing to verify the identity of a seller is unprofessional conduct. So if the realtor does not verify, it's a know your client requirement. If they don't verify the identity of their client, that could be deemed unprofessional conduct by OPR. Section three, a new section 2,300 is added to title 26 related to real estate brokers. It's the duty to verify client identity. Every real estate broker or salesperson who represents a grantor of real property shall take reasonable measures to verify the identity of the client. A broker or salesperson may fulfill that duty by using an identity verification platform on the list of approved platforms from the Secretary of State. Section four, we're at the bottom of page four. This is going to relate to the submission of an affidavit by attorneys. And ahead of time, I will flag for you that whenever you're dealing with attorneys licensed in the state, there is potential for, some treading on the constitutional territory of another coequal branch of government, the judiciary, has authority over the, conduct of attorneys. However, here, this is structured in a manner that it is requiring the submission of a document as part of a specific transaction by an attorney. It does not provide any, consequence or punishment for failure to abide by the statute, but it could have an impact on the recording down the line. So an attorney representing a grantor in any transaction that is subject to this chapter shall verify the identity of the attorney's client. Same, know your client requirement. Prior to the conveyance of land or an estate or interest in land by the execution of a deed, the attorney representing the grantor shall sign an affidavit stating that the attorney has taken reasonable measures to verify the identity of the grantor. The affidavit shall be included in the documents submitted for recording in the land records and indexing in the general index. So if you do not see this affidavit as part of the land records, it could be, particularly for the title insurers doing a search, an indication that there is a problem here because the attorney has not verified the identity of their client.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Representative Hango and then Stone.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: So this attorney getting the affidavit signed, can they use the same system for identity verification that the Secretary of State has on their website? Yes.

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: And they could. The attorneys to a transaction can also register ahead of time as a verified transactor. They're in the list of entities that can become real property secure real property transactors. And just as a question,

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: did it not used to be possible or isn't it possible, and maybe this is a better question for a realtor, to purchase property completely

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: over the phone or electronically, like particularly during COVID? Isn't how a lot of those transactions were happening? It's how a lot of the transactions can be set up. There is still, as far as I know, an in person meeting for purposes of the closing at all of these. But through a power of attorney, you can have a registered agent who shows up physically.

[Lauren-Glenn Davitian (CCTV Center for Media & Democracy; representing Vermont Access Network)]: And

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: any of these cases, there is an attorney who is going to the closing and handling all of the matters in the closing, but who may not know that they are being defrauded by their client.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: For Rep Stone. This is a question for Rep Stone. I was so shooketh by your

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: testimony, I but I

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: I need help remembering what you said about the clerks, what they would like to see changed in this bill. Would like to see the affidavit get filed prior to the paperwork coming, so it wouldn't be presented at the same time as the recording. So they would like it to be recorded ahead of time. So that the onus of identity is not on them, that the attorneys have already done the work.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Then I need a clarification.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: The table is yours.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Isn't that what Section four is requiring? One of these The attorney does the affidavit prior to all the paperwork being submitted to the town clerk? Maybe that's a better question for counsel.

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: The affidavit, you're asking counsel for that. One of the, requirements for the town clerks to endorse. The requirements for the town clerks to endorse are strictly that, there is a verified transactor that's registered on the list or that they've received a document verifying the identity of a grantor from one of those parties. So the affidavit could be that instrument, but they could also receive something from the realtor or from the title insurance company verifying the identity of the grantor through one of these platforms.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: So it seems to me that that should alleviate the concern of the town clerks if this bill were to pass, but we could ask the, Town Clerks Association that question.

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: So the list of people who can become a registered secure real property transactor includes all of the parties that would be involved in this transaction. So the pressure is put on everyone that if they want to move forward prudently and expediently, that one of those parties would be registered or would use the platform approved by the Secretary of State and submit a document that they verify the identity of the seller.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Hooper? Burlington. Do you have any idea what the list that the search is and uses as the mechanics of identification?

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: That would all be determined by procedure under the four corners of this bill. And I will say that I can't offer any testimony about how the secretary of state would administer this, whether it's even feasible. Those are all questions that

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: you

[Tucker Anderson (Legislative Counsel)]: would have to

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: ask secretary. From their models for a start up, but authorization. So this Yeah. Out here. It's a special endorsement, I believe, that, notary publics can receive. Something that started initially during the COVID response. And then it was retained as a special endorsement? That's what I'm recollecting that I'll confirm for you. Recollecting the State Council. Yeah. Any other questions for. That's a lot of this topic. All right. Yeah, we'll ask a couple of questions, and we'll send some emails out to some trade associations. We'll start poking. That seems to be a consensus.

[Rep. Sandra “Sandy” Pinsonault (Member)]: I think that conversation with the realtor, the since the Vermont Realtors Association. Met with me. He sees the need as well.

[Rep. Matthew Birong (Chair)]: Alright. I already had him on our short punch list. So, alright, we are a few minutes shy of our next appointment agenda item. So, I guess take us

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: off