Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: You're right. Alright. Good morning, everyone. It is Thursday, January 15, house government operations military affairs, and we have some guests with us to run through a report, and have some discussion on Vermont Emergency Medical Services System assessment report. I have Patrick Malone on my testimony list. Would you like to join us? How are doing, sir? Good morning.

[Patrick Malone]: Thank you for the opportunity to be here. Do you need to know who I am?

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yes. For the record, please introduce yourself.

[Patrick Malone]: Yes. My name is Patrick Malone. I'm a member of the Vermont EMS Advisory Committee since 2011, and I'm a faculty emeritus at the University of Vermont, and also a licensed EMS provider and senior instructor.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: So, yeah, we're just, this is, you know, an ongoing conversation in the committee, so we just wanted to have, you come in and kind of give us a rundown on the report, the findings, and just sort of a status update on this project as a whole?

[Patrick Malone]: Okay. I, just for complete transparency, I I just found out about this at about 05:15 last evening. Oh, cool. Drew Hazleton, the chair of our committee, is I had to be out of town. Yeah. So he asked me to come down. So, you might get some thank you note notes from a class at UVM because I postponed their class so I could visit No.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: That's awesome. Thank you for joining us on such short

[Patrick Malone]: Noted on the notes. I I'm sure I could answer any of your questions, but if you have any questions about details, I might have to work back to you. It's fine. Alright. Should I begin with the development of this report and

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: Yeah.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yes.

[Patrick Malone]: Into it? I I don't want I wanna be efficient with your time. Oh, I we have more than enough time.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: We got about forty five minutes blocked out. So

[Rep. Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault]: Oh, okay.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yeah. So we we have time for a conversation.

[Patrick Malone]: Wonderful. Well, I you know, as a as a a forty plus year member of the EMS community in Vermont, I really appreciate the legislature's help over the past, maybe over the past ten years. It's things, recognition, awareness have been increasing, and support has been increasing. And forty years ago, that wasn't the way it was. So I really personally appreciate that. This report was not sure mandated, requested by the legislature. And we spent the bulk of 2024 researching it and writing it. A couple of things contributed to its success. First of all, the participation of the members of the group. I think there's about 20 named members to the advisory council. And with the exception of maybe three organizations, there was really good participation throughout throughout the project. We made we traditionally our meeting schedule is monthly. But from about May, because of the work of this report, we start meeting two times a month. The the meetings were held all around the state to give a chance for for local participation. Three of our meetings or the the three of our meetings were full day meetings where we had a facilitator to help us kind of get on the right track. In addition to that, we had a data assistant administrator administrative assistant to help collect and verify information that came to the committee after the data analysis report from Cambridge Consulting was submitted. She did just an unbelievable job. Data collection is really the problem that the biggest problem we faced. And Sue actually, called service heads a lot to get information that she either they did not provide or could not be obtained, in other other places. There was a technical writer at the end to help us put this all together. And I I have to brag a little bit, but students from two of my courses, EMS leadership and a course on trauma and trauma systems, and two independent study students helped us with a number of activities. For instance, last spring, we were trying to determine what states in our country had EMS plans, which is the next phase of this project. And they found that nine 19 of our 50 states had plans, and my current class is starting this week to, update that to see if we missed any or if there's been any updates and plans. There's also Quick question on that. Within those 19 states, are they larger population mass than we have? Is there a blend of states? It's it's all over the board. Two of the states, different ends of the population, that we are interested in using as a as a model are Maine and California. They they they both have plans that are, they kinda make sense. They're easy to read, and and we thought they were well developed. So those are the two examples I could give you. States that you think would have them, big states, Florida, Texas, I I don't believe they do. New Hampshire has one, so it's kinda all over the board. But

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Understood. So you're focusing on the California and the Maine?

[Patrick Malone]: Yeah. And the and the students this semester are going to be developing an outline to present at the committee to use Ross, but using those two states as as the model. Another another student, of all things from our our GIS major. He's a GIS minor into mapping and such. He, he made several maps to make a lot of this data more understandable, which I they're not in the report. I thought they were an addendum. I couldn't find it. But when I do, I'll I'll get that to you. It might be in the form of a presentation. But just did did great work to kinda visualize this and and some other some other graphs. I have to compliment Will Moran and his team at the Office of the MS and the Health Department. They were just really solid partners all in helping us with this. And finally, Drew Hazleton just did a superb job as the chair of this group, providing providing leadership and and drive. The work that we started came on the heels of getting a an analysis of the system by an out of state vendor called Cambridge Consulting. They provided a report in May '25, which the goal of which was to provide a clear understanding of how the system is structured, governed, and operated, and to identify areas of inconsistency, inefficiency, and dysfunction. And their focus was on an analysis and the findings. They did not make recommendations. The major findings include that there's a lack of EMS coverage standards. The system relies heavily on volunteers, especially especially in more rural areas. And the entire system is strained by call increase from year to year and financial issues. They believe that in terms of structure and governance, were too many EMS districts. The state is divided into 13 EMS districts. Everybody always asks why there's not 14. And it doesn't go quite by county. It goes by, catchment areas of the various hospitals. So, one of our districts is kind of based in New Hampshire with the with the amount of, the number of patients that that go from the field to Dartmouth Hitchcock. And they they thought that that was it's varied how how effective and efficient these district different districts are, with some districts doing a minimal amount of work. As a matter of fact, we have two EMS districts out of 13. Each district gets a representative and an alternate to the committee, and two of the 13 districts have not named a representative. So they're marginal, if any, participation.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: One moment, I got a hand here.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: I have a quick question. The districts are named by number. Correct. Do they correspond to anywhere on the map? Cause I'm looking at the one map that is in the report.

[Patrick Malone]: So, if you start with Northwestern Vermont, that is EMS District one. EMS District two is around Newport. EMS District three would be Chittenden County, a little bit of Addison County and most of the islands. Like this down on the map. On the map with District 12 being Bennington and District 13 being Breville. Perfect. Thank you. We are in EMS district six at the moment. Okay. Good to know. Thank you. They they also they're they found that the the EMS office was understaffed. They, believe that there's, problems with, data warehouse warehouse information and collection, that, in terms of EMS operations and for performance, they believe that there are too many small agencies, which, in addition to that, on the unequal call distribution and long responses. And just as an aside, I'm not sure those particular issues can be addressed. The urban centers of each or the the more populated centers of each district, each county will have a higher call volume than our communities that have a thousand people. In terms of financial status I got another hand over here.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay, this might be a naive or ignorant question, but I'm wondering, can you explain to me why the calls need to be why the call responders or those centers need to be geographically near where people are making those calls. So it makes sense.

[Patrick Malone]: The call center.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: You're talking about the dispatch, right? Like, the people who are you talking about?

[Patrick Malone]: Dispatch is a whole different.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay. You're talking about the actual people driving the things and where they're coming from.

[Patrick Malone]: Yes. Okay.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: All right. That's hearing.

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: Oh, okay.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Call or or something. Was I just need a little clarification. Thank you.

[Patrick Malone]: I was here in the mid nineties when the nine eleven system was established. Yeah. And one of the options for Vermont was to have a +1 911 call center for the whole state. And, the model that was in that was working, the first state in the country to have e 911 was Idaho. And Idaho had one call taking center, and Vermont decided to reach on one. So Okay. Vermont became the second state with e nine one one in the country. So the the services are I don't I don't know how to explain it, but, not I would bet that all of our 251 communities, almost all of them probably have some level of fire department. Right? That's that's not true for emergency medical services. There are ninety first responder services, and there are, 68 65 or 68 ambulance services. Yeah.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Representative Hango.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Thank you for the clarification for the committee. And a first responder could be just one individual in their private car going to someone's home to be there until an ambulance gets there and provide very basic first aid. Is that correct?

[Patrick Malone]: That is correct. I don't have it at the top of my head, but I believe to have, for an organization to have a first responder license, they have to have a minimum number of personnel. That doesn't mean they're ever you're ever gonna get more than eight. It is a person with equipment in their own vehicle. Typically, there are a couple of organizations that have a response vehicle that gets there and provides emergency care until the ambulance comes. And not all rural communities have that. I live in Fairfield in EMS district one in Franklin County. And in Fairfield, the our ambulance coverage comes from Amcare Ambulance in Saint Albans, and there's no first response. So at my house, I could have forty five minutes before the ambulance gets in.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: So I live in Berkshire. We had a first responder, but she's since moved away. One. Yes, one. And so yes, same similar wait time for an ambulance. Yeah. It's the nature of

[Patrick Malone]: rural. Yeah. Really.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: But I just want to make sure everybody knew that those ninety first responders are very scattered throughout the state and many geographically large areas truly have no first responder and no ambulance in her town.

[Patrick Malone]: Right. And if you want to see the direct effect of that in the in the report oh, I forgot to mention the list of committee representatives is on page 16 of the book. So you could figure out who represents, the community or the district where you live. There is a on page nine, there are there is a a couple of charts on first response and ambulance, response times. And just to be clear with that, dispatch to en route means that the call comes in to 911911 calls the appropriate dispatch center, and they send the alert out to the appropriate agency. And from when they receive that dispatch to when they arrive at the scene of the emergency is the is the second time. So for first responders, you could see EMS District five, the average response dispatch to arrival time is almost twenty two minutes. District five is in Northeast Kingdom.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: I think it's important to sorry to jump in, but important to name the districts so that folks listening, if you are in the Northeast Kingdom and you know of a potential solution to this, to have someone appointed to this committee where there is no representative, that would be really helpful to reach out to Drew Hazleton, or any others that are on this report, email addresses are at the event.

[Patrick Malone]: The statute states that each of the 13 districts have a representative. And unfortunately, EMS District five has not appointed a representative.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Right.

[Patrick Malone]: And I don't mean to to finger point, but the Northeast Kingdom, just by the nature of it being that Northeast Kingdom, is a very challenging place to to provide emergency services. And and I think it's not that they don't have a representative because they don't want to participate.

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: Right.

[Patrick Malone]: I think by the time you join emergency medical services, by the time you get training, by the time you do ongoing training, all the other kind of logistical and operational things. And in an area like that's mainly volunteer. There's no time left to do something like contribute your time for the functions, help to with the functions of the district.

[Rep. Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault]: Patricus Maltz. So, I'm in Dorset, which is that we are serviced by the North Shire Rescue.

[Patrick Malone]: VMS District twelve.

[Rep. Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault]: Right, so in reading this, these times are probably average time, because it certainly would take longer than two minutes, or nine minutes to arrive from Northshire to some

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: of its surrounding towns that it covers. Yeah, that's

[Patrick Malone]: it's district wide. Right. Right? So you think about look at EMS District three, which is Chittenden County. It's, two minutes to dispatch, and they get there within eight minutes. Right. And that includes Traffic. The Burlington Fire Department that goes a block away, and it includes Essex Rescue that has to go to the far to the bottom of Mount Mansfield on some dirt road in Underhill. So that's that's what causes a lot.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: And can I

[Unidentified Committee Member]: get some of

[Rep. Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault]: And then, as far as the mapping goes, I think it would be great if there was an overlay of just the districts, so people could identify another

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: map,

[Rep. Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault]: or color coding of the counties or the it's represented, you could see which district one might be purple district or just an overlay of another map where you could see where the districts were?

[Patrick Malone]: Will get the committee a district map, which is on the Department of Health EMS website. I believe on page seven is a link for an interactive map. And, I haven't I didn't have an opportunity to look at that closely last night, but I believe there'll be a map of the districts embedded in there. There should be. Find it. Excuse me. You can't find it. Okay. We will make sure we get you.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: If you don't mind, I'm still following up. And you're next. Thank you. So back to the districts that are not named, that have no representative, District 11 is where?

[Patrick Malone]: District 11 is Springfield, Windham and Southern Windsor, if my geography is correct.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Patrick Malone]: Would be their hospital.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: I guess my concern is, does it have to be an EMT or or someone who works for an ambulance system to be on this committee? Or could this committee be represent their area be represented on this committee by a lay person?

[Patrick Malone]: My understanding is that the district has the representative and I don't believe there's any guidance on who to select.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Okay.

[Patrick Malone]: I will tell you that of the 11 districts that participate regularly, let me see, one, two, three, four, five, five, six, seven, eight, eight of the people are the chair of the district, eight eight of the 13. At least eight of the 13.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Representative Son?

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: I'm a healthcare worker when I'm outside of this building, and I'm just wondering, do you have any recruitment strategies that you're using to tell healthcare workers who we have in these big hospitals like Dartmouth Hitchcock, University of Vermont Medical Center, even some of the students who are getting trained to be healthcare practitioners, that there are needs in places like community where the one person they had moved. I'm just wondering if you have any partnerships to, because I haven't heard of anything in the medical center, otherwise I would have- In Burlington? Or anywhere, any of these places, because not everyone in the medical center works in Burlington. A lot of people commute to Addison County, to Franklin County, etcetera. So wondering if y'all are doing any education outreach to let people know that there's a need. Because I haven't heard of anything. If I had, I would have probably volunteered.

[Patrick Malone]: There there have been efforts, statewide efforts, district efforts, and local efforts, targeting the recruitment of of people into the system. That extends to there's been some work with workforce development. There's been some work with I don't know the official name of this, but the the tech ed centers aligned with high schools.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Mhmm.

[Patrick Malone]: Several of them have EMT training programs to hopefully get young folks involved in this. At the University of Vermont, we can't teach enough EMT courses. We have an emergency medical service minor. We have people who are in that minor. Probably half of them are some pre medical professions, PA, nurse practitioner, health care provider. About 25% of them want to get into emergency services as a profession, opportunities of which are increasing in Vermont. And the other 25% are associated with things having to do with outdoor education recreation. Eight of the 40 game wardens in the state were trained in our programs, for instance. But our students, there are organizations that look to our training programs, to recruit students, and they serve as clinical sites for us. So, one example of that is Dave Dorsen, who who was the director of Barrytown EMS. And he understands that he takes a student, and by the time they're ready to work in the field, students from our program are typically juniors. Right? So they'll be in Vermont for two years. And Dave hires them, knowing he'll only get two years out of them and also knowing that we're gonna have somebody trained to take their place. So we send our students this semester that they're either employed, they're employed or volunteer, and EMS district one with m care, An EMS district four with Northern Vermont EMS and Hardwick Rescue. An EMS district six with Barrytown EMS and Waterbury EMS. And an EMS district seven with Middlebury Regional EMS. So we're we're actively sending those students out, plus their students who are Vermonters that get trained to go back to their community. And they all know there's a shortage. So

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: That's a clarifying question. I'm also talking about, like, first responders. Like, for example, not now because I'm here, but I worked an eight hour day at the hospital. I may not be able to be working with an EMS team, but I could be a first responder or put my name on the list. I was wondering if there were education efforts around that.

[Patrick Malone]: There are. To be a first responder, the individual can't just live in Fairfield or Berkshire and be an EMT and grab a kit and go. They have to be, because of the system, they have to be a member of a licensed organization. And, to be to be a a legal response to to to meet state regulations, they have to have an EMS license. So I don't know what

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: you're kind EMS license? What kind level

[Patrick Malone]: you have?

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: On an occupational therapist certified license. So advanced level

[Patrick Malone]: So you would have to be, at the minimum, of Vermont first responder, Biffer, which is, you have to have some kind of training, which I would bet from occupational therapy you have. And then there's a sixteen hour course for some essential EMS functions, which include what the heck do you do until the ambulance comes, like from an operational standpoint. So that'd be an easy entry point. I don't think occupational therapists are specifically listed. But if you are a nurse, if you are a physician assistant, or a physician, there are streamlined paths, or a nurse, I think, nurse practitioner, have streamlined training programs to earn that certification to be part of the response system.

[Rep. Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault]: That's good to know.

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: So I'm just thinking working smarter, not harder. We don't have like a huge population here in Vermont. But I'm also thinking for continuing education credits, which I'm currently doing right now. I mean, we probably could get those too if you're a nurse, you're someone, you know, again, using the population we have.

[Patrick Malone]: Don't mind me asking, where's your home?

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: Burlington. Burlington. But a lot of people I work with at the hospital, they drive home, like I said, to other places, to Franklin, to Addison County, to more rural areas. I'm just trying to figure out how to kill two birds once down here.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Representative Hango?

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: I really like this line of thought. This is really creative and it might be somewhere that hasn't been explored because Rep Stone brings up a really good point that many folks who work at UVM Medical Center go home at night and on the weekends to Far Northern Franklin County, my district, and are medical professionals already. And what I'm hearing is they could take a sixteen hour course or even a shortened course if they already have some of the qualifications become a first responder so they can get to their neighbor's house before an ambulance gets there and stabilize the patient or just be the medical presence there to be a calming presence for the family or whoever is living in that dwelling. Is that correct?

[Patrick Malone]: The minimum amount of training to get a license in Vermont is sixteen hours. You know, from my forty years of educational experience, twenty years ago, maybe up till before COVID, we would get in our programs, we would get health care practitioners who are retiring from their primary occupation. And now they have more time, they're living in their community, and they become an EMT, either work with a local ambulance service or the local first response service. Because of how COVID has changed everything, I don't personally see that as much. The health care individuals that are in health care professions have nothing left Mhmm. To to do stuff like this, to be my personal view of it. But we we always used to get I think the oldest person I ever had in the class was pushing 80 that wanted to be an EMT in a rural community.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: These first responders do not have to be EMTs. Is that correct? There's a certification program for the person with their personal car and some equipment to go to a home and just be there until the ambulance comes.

[Patrick Malone]: There is, you have to be a licensed first response.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Right, but not an EMT. Correct. Okay, great. Because I'm thinking, like someone who might have young children who have childcare and could be on call for a certain number of hours, but they are not working currently in the hospital because they don't have that much time to devote to that, or they want to be home with their family. Somebody like that who might live in Franklin or Addison County, for instance. Just trying to be creative here.

[Patrick Malone]: That that is that is a a fine idea. And in my experience and professional opinion, the there's actually a term for it. It's called the paramedic paradox. Okay? So the further you are out into a rural area, the further from the hospital you are, the more you need additional training. Right? So South Burlington doesn't need a paramedic as much as Averill needs a paramedic. Right? And you can't make paramedics everywhere because if you put a paramedic in Averill and they sit there with their kid, they're not gonna have any calls because there's no people there. Few people there. Right? So I I think encouraging the development of people at the EMT level would be would be my my idea if you if you said there's still an EMT class might be a hundred and thirty to a hundred and forty hours. But somebody who has had training in anatomy and physiology and assessment and disease transmission and all those things are part of an EMT curriculum, all of a sudden, that 140 is now like seventy hours. And seventy hours is what it takes to make a licensed emergency medical responder, somebody who has no training at all if you wanna become a responder. So the investment of the time for a health care professional to be an EMT would give you a much larger scope of practice and a much more robust response to emergencies, especially the critical emergencies.

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: It helps with continuing education.

[Barb Neal]: I'm having

[Rep. Mary-Katherine Stone]: to do thirty six hours right now that I have to submit to the Secretary of State and the National Board of Life Certification for Occupational Therapists, so that would also help, that would count towards that, that I'm already having to do.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Any other questions for this portion?

[Patrick Malone]: Alright. Cool. Let's keep rolling. I kinda I kinda went a little bit off track, but We have a tendency of doing that.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: I'm the

[Patrick Malone]: perfect person to be here. The Vermont EMS system is at a critical juncture, is what the summary of the Cambridge Consulting report says. Okay, so now, our system assessment. We I We divided divided different areas up and had subcommittees work on these. I I myself led the education and training committee. So if you had questions about that, I could answer those very easily because I I was I was here for every step of the way. But one of the first things that we did on page two is a definition of emergency medical services. And I think many people may have skipped right over that, thinking they know what emergency medical services are. But in those 19 state EMS plans, not one had a definition of EMS. Not one. And the regular definite definition of EMS leads you to believe that somebody's got a boo boo and the ambulance is going to come and put a band aid on it. It's all about emergency response. And we are at a point, especially if you consider all the health care reform issues, the Oliver Wyman report had many of the recommendations impact EMS. If a hospital a rural hospital is going to lose services, you have to have some way to get the patient from the rural hospital to the tertiary care center. So the role of EMS is changing as health care changes. There's going to be community paramedicine, where a paramedic is not just sitting in the station waiting for an event to happen. But if they've got a member in their an individual who lives in their service area who has a chronic disease, for instance, somebody with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or diabetes, they may be going there a couple times a week to make sure that person doesn't need assistance with their medications, with blood glucose monitoring, etcetera. So our definition, we try to make it broad enough to position us to be ready to take on these additional challenges as health care reform happens.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Very quickly, the non emergent practice of medicine in the out of hospital environment is not currently reimbursable to an EMS system, to an ambulance system?

[Patrick Malone]: There's two answers to that. One, non emergent would imply a part of non emergent would be the ambulance call where the EMS unit arrives. And either the person doesn't need much assistance or minimal assistance, or maybe they don't want to go to the hospital. So the the EMT or the paramedic, the service can give you care. Come come splint your ankle, help you get in your car so your family can drive you to the hospital, saving you the cost of EMS plus allowing that EMS unit to be available sooner. Okay? There's no reimbursement for that. The other thing is the expansion of of the scope of practice with EMS units. And Rescue Inc. Down in Brattleboro is doing this. And I don't know all the exact details. True Hazleton would be the one to answer your questions. But, basically, they're treating they've got protocols down there where certain chronic diseases are the people are in this program. And the EMS folks in conjunction with the physicians who are carrying that patient, for that patient, have a set of protocols to minimize the health care costs of this by keeping the patient out of the emergency department and therefore saving overnights. And that is reimbursed. I believe it's funded by the hospital and not insurance

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: funds. So that's the community paramedicine

[Patrick Malone]: That's part of it, yeah.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: That you're talking about. Okay, great. Thank you.

[Patrick Malone]: How how would you like me to proceed through this report? Section by section, you wanna ask questions? How could I help? Yeah. We get that. Yeah.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Let's do section by section. We'll, you know, we'll stop at the end of the section for a little q and a on that instead of holding for

[Patrick Malone]: the analysts. That's it. Okay. We get to overall system performance, and the system faces significant challenges that compromise effectiveness and sustainability. The service levels, response times, and staffing vary significantly by town. Inter facility transports, which are transports primarily between hospitals and health care centers, are not consistently reliable. There's often delays. There's only maybe six or seven agencies do the bulk of those transportations. There's different revenue mixes to support EMS in various areas, and there's gaps in the funding. There's funding gaps in training, education, data collection, and medical direction. EMS is considered to be physician extender. So all EMS is delivered on what's called medical direction. And a medical director would do things like help establish protocols, work with quality assurance, and things like that. MIH is the the other part of community paramedicine that I that I described, mobile integrated health. Okay, so that's overall system performance. That goes into governance and system structure. I already mentioned about about the EMS districts. But in terms of the delivery of EMS, there's four models that are are the the primary ways that EMS gets delivered in Vermont. One, our regional EMS systems. And a regional EMS system is a service is located in one town, one city, and then contracts with surrounding communities to provide EMS. So in in Franklin County, EMS District one, Amcare Ambulance is based in Saint Albans and goes to probably maybe half of the towns, a third of the towns in Franklin County. They don't a large geographic area like Franklin County, Amcare Ambulance Service actually has a substation in Sheldon. So it's closer to get to the farther, farther reaches of it. There are formal regional systems, regional ambulance service in Rutland. EMS District ten is Rutland County. And I think there are only two or three EMS services in that large county. But they they have many towns that they cover. Career fire department based EMS, not every municipal career fire department does EMS. Most do. And what what occurs there is that the the personnel in the fire department, are also trained as EMTs or up to paramedic, and they have an ambulance that they do their own first response and ambulance service. There are a few municipalities in Vermont that fund their own services. Shelburne Rescue does that. I think Chester does that. So it's it's a town service like direct department or the street department or anything else. And then there's local service providers, and most of those are some level of, not for profit organization that a growing number of them have some level of professional leadership. They they pay a director to take care of admin stuff and at least have somebody on call Monday through Friday and manage the part time or career staffs. Any questions about that? There is a map. I mean, that interactive map I had referred to, if you go to that site, you could click on your area and get all the details of how EMS is delivered. That's hyperlink. Hyperlink.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yeah. I I appreciate that dashboard.

[Patrick Malone]: Going down to, data sources and limitations, I don't I don't know if nightmare is the right word. I I think it is. But every data problem you can imagine, we faced while we were trying trying to to get an objective view of our system. I could specifically speak well, you know, there's there's data gaps in in clinical data collection. There's there's data gaps in operational data collection. There was hardly any data source available to get financial information. I spent a lot of time trying to learn the details of the EMS education system. And my method of data collection was to call licensed educators and ask them how they did stuff and what it cost them to do it. So it's, it's something that we if if we really want to improve the system, we have to improve data collection and management.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Do you know why it's so nightmarish?

[Patrick Malone]: There are lots of reasons going from agencies that that think, it's not important, agencies that don't have the capabilities. There are organizations and agencies that work with us that did not want to share information or easily share information.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: It's my town.

[Patrick Malone]: Yeah. And you know, some of the some of the information was thought to be proprietary. So I tried an example of this is I tried to find out how much it cost to educate an EMT. Hundred and forty hour course, set curriculum. And I have no answer for you. I have no clue. Right? There's an EMS organization that, uses, they they will recruit people without And when they have enough for an EMT course, it becomes the job of their full time personnel to teach that course when they're working. So, the recruits pay nothing because it's part of the recruitment process. And the agency doesn't think it costs anything because the personnel costs, which would be the bulk of of costs, are absorbed by the operational expenses department. Others, they don't wanna know that they're getting a thousand dollars and it's only cost them a 100 to train a student. There's different things like that. But even in terms of sharing information, we we had challenges with entities trying to get information like data on inter facility transports. Right? There's there's just challenges all along the way. So some of this some of our data analysis was was best guessed. The state in terms of statewide EMS data, as far as we know, there's about a hundred thousand nine one one calls per year. And the year we worked with was 2024, the year with the most complete data. And that's a 6% increase over 2023. About a third of those did not result in transport, back to what we were talking about before. Now, that doesn't mean in a third of the calls, an EMS provider did an assessment in management. Sometimes there's a 911 call where they get to a place, and there's there's no call. Right? Somebody in town sees somebody trip and fall on the sidewalk, they call 911 and the ambulance comes and the person sitting on the bench said, I'm fine. I just slipped. So there's there's, you know, no event or a fender bender that people cars drove away, something like that. There are about 28,000 inter facility transports, which were about an 8%, increase, on that call volume. We get on to the cost of the system, and our best guess is that Vermoni MS system, the total cost is about $98,000,000,000 per year. Out of that 53,000,000, it's insurance reimbursement, which is about 54% of the cost. About 43,000,000 comes from local tax support. The value of volunteer labor, our best guess, is, just under $10,000,000 a year. A little over $1,000,000 a year happens with fundraising. Fundraising is all over the board from services that will more of the nonprofit type organizations, if they respond to an event, they might send an appeal for a donation. I think there's still some services that might have other fundraising type events. And then, the provider taxes, ring in $1,400,000. And the provider tax is a tax that the state collects in order to get a larger Medicare Medicaid reimbursement.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: And they collect that from home, sorry.

[Patrick Malone]: From the service. Yeah. We looked at the average cost of calls, and the most expensive cost per call are with those career fire based systems at $1,168. And to note those those costs are higher because those organizations support fire based their fire based work as well as their EMS work. Next comes municipal services, which are about $800 a call. Regional services, it drops down to $6.70 per call. And then local services, it's about $729 per call. And then, here, percentage of compensated staff is listed there. So ambulance reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid is inadequate and towns that support their EMS units, that goes back to the property taxes, or burden on the property taxes. One thing we learned about the financial reporting of the EMS agencies is that it was really a challenge to get financial information. So one of the things that we were thinking about, Vermont lacks a mandatory financial reporting system for EMS organizations. So that might be something to think about in the future. Volunteers availability is decreasing. And I'm sure all of you know that all aspects of volunteering, not just things like EMS, are decreasing as time goes on. Okay. System structure and service delivery. I mentioned if there are first responder services. It's I correct I'm corrected. 65 ambulance services, and then two out of state services provide care here. There's a couple of unique delivery models. There's a ski area that has a part time service. And I think by part time, it means that when the snow melts, service isn't in operation. We have two college services at Saint Michael's College, which really acts more like a regional EMS service, a fairly high. They're probably in the top 10 busiest services in the state. And then the University of Vermont who provides for the backup to the cities of Burlington and South Burlington. Okay. I we talked a little bit about One more. I got a hand

[Unidentified Committee Member]: for him. Yes. I'm curious about the history of that Saint Michael's arrangement. How long have they had their own, like, fire department?

[Patrick Malone]: There was Saint Michael's Fire and Rescue was started in 1969 with the death of a student and a lack of an ambulance to come help them. So the the a guy named Don Sutton said, we can't have this. And he started the the volunteer the student run volunteer organization, which that that but that was before the EMS system started, which was formally started around 1974. And at 1974, St. Michael's Rescue probably had 3,800 calls a year, and they covered Winooski, Williston, St. George, and Hinesburg. And now as a system developed, and a lot of those communities have their own resources, they cover their campus and Winusky as primary response area, and then they are a backup for Culpfaster and Essex. UVM's student run service started in 1974.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: And Winooski has no service of their own?

[Patrick Malone]: Do not. They they have relied on Saint Michael's Rescue since 1969. Oh. Yeah. Are you from Winooski?

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: No. I I'm from Brookfield. I

[Unidentified Committee Member]: just noticed that last time I was up there, and I thought it was interesting. So they serve all of Colchester.

[Patrick Malone]: Right? Oh, they just serve Wimske. Colchester is an example of a municipality. It's got a career fire department starting and municipal based EMS service, which is not into it's under the fire department instead of dual role cross train like real estate. There's they're separate, but in town government.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Let me be conscious of time. We're gonna shift gears a little bit here. So

[Patrick Malone]: Inter facility transport, that's that's that's we mentioned that earlier. I'm not sure there's anything to say about that, except in our view, my professional view, that area of EMS is going to be growing substantially with health care reform. Education and training, we did a lot of work on that. There's you probably would have a lot of questions, and I would be happy to to come back and dedicate more time to that. Yeah.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: I think that's something that we'll flag for follow-up after, you know, doing doing this run through on the report. I think that's seems to be a worthy conversation to continue to batting based on that q and a over. Yep.

[Patrick Malone]: I there's a there's a glossary in the back with some definitions that might be helpful. And the the committee members and the and the alternates and their contact information. I don't have to leave until five minutes of eleven to get to class. So if you want to keep you want me to keep going out, if there's somebody else scheduled or oh, Dan Batesy's here. How are doing?

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: I wanna listen to the discussion for a few minutes that was So with the next one.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yeah. Why don't we I wanna be respectful of the sign here. So why don't we shift gears over to this, and then if there's sorry. Have you interject in the gallery? We'll do that. We'll just kinda keep it a little, like, structurally abstract.

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: You'd like me to stick

[Patrick Malone]: around for a while?

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Malone]: If you got the time. Yeah. I nicer.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: I'm doing it for those students.

[Patrick Malone]: And I I that's the second class. I'd be yeah.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: If you got a yeah. We can always follow-up on this stuff more later if you if you

[Patrick Malone]: need Yeah. I'd be happy to come back anytime. Let's do it. You always meet on Thursdays?

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: We meet Tuesday through Friday. Yep.

[Patrick Malone]: I don't know if I could do this, but Wednesdays are the best day. I don't I don't have a

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: class on Wednesdays. Tell me what the best day is

[Patrick Malone]: for you. Wednesdays or Fridays are great. Yeah. Wednesdays Wednesdays and Fridays are best.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: No. That's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We wanna be as accommodating as possible to your schedule.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: So And we don't typically ask people last minute to come testify, so we appreciate that you were able to do that.

[Patrick Malone]: Yes. I'm glad I got to do this.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yes. Okay. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your time, and we will continue this for sure. Alright. Shifting gears. How are you doing, deputy commissioner? It's been a little Good. Thank you. Yeah. How are you? Are you ready for me? Please. Come on up. Yeah. We're just gonna keep your phone.

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: Bart you'll see Bart Neal's online as well. She's the co chair of the task force. We thought we'd double team this. That sounds great. Your time most economical.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: I love government officials. Especially due to the one of

[Patrick Malone]: our mantra, exactly the

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: same thing I am. Good morning, everyone. Thank you. And for the record, my name is Dan Beatty. I am the deputy commissioner of public safety. And, with us today also is Barb Neil. I'll let her introduce herself in a moment. And then also Paul White from the task force. He's, been a very active participant as well.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Wonderful. Hello, folks. How are you?

[Barb Neal]: Doing well. Thank you. As soon as I get the mute button under control.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yeah. Seems to be under control. You nailed

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: it. Yeah.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Thank you.

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: Mister chair, Barb has a PowerPoint she's gonna run through as well. And and Barb, I can't see you. So I'm gonna kinda just let you start. Yeah.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: You know? That's great. Yeah. Did you give her access for your screen? And also, if you wouldn't mind emailing that to us so we can put it on our, post it on our site for testimony today in case anybody wants to look at it later on.

[Barb Neal]: Sure. I can absolutely do that. Given my skills for multitasking, probably I should do that after I'm done presenting.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: No, after a committee is totally fine. That's not a now thing. Okay,

[Barb Neal]: let's see. Let me pull this up here and see. Are you seeing the beginnings of a PowerPoint? Okay, let me get to the beginning here. Good morning, everybody. For the record, I'm Barb Neill. I am co chair of the Public Safety Communications Task Force, and also Executive Director of the Enhanced nine eleven Board. Dan's already introduced himself and Paul White, our Vice Chair is here with us as well. We're here today to talk about the Public Safety Communications Task Force recommendation summary that was sent to you on December 1. And at the outset here, I should let you know that the task force is continuing to work on a more detailed, report about these recommendations that will maybe fill in some more information for you about, where it is we are with our work. That should be over to you within the next, I think it's ten days to two weeks. So something to look forward to, so to speak.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Thank you.

[Barb Neal]: So brief history, and kind of the background of where we are. The Public Safety Communications Task Force was created by Act 78 in 2023 and charged with the planning and implementation of a reliable, secure, and interoperable statewide public safety communication system. The system needs to be equitably and sustainably financed, accessible to all, and it needs to enhance and build upon previous efforts and initiatives. Here is an overview of the task force membership. We're actually made up of seven members. The co chairs of the task force were defined in the legislation as the Commissioner of Public Safety or her designee and the executive director of the enhanced nine eleven board. So Commissioner Morrison, had the role of co chair until I think it was maybe the middle of last year or so, when she designated or delegated rather that that role to Deputy Commissioner Dan Batesy. And at one of our earliest meetings, the task force elected Paul White as the task force vice chair. Paul had previously served, some of you may remember this, as the chair of the regional dispatch working group, and he's also served as chair of the Barrytown Select Board and is a retired captain with the Vermont State Police. Jim Mack is the representative well, is from the Shelburne Police Department, and he is the representative from a Public Safety Answering Point, or PSAP, that is overseen by a municipal police department. The Vermont League of Cities and Towns is represented by Mayor Mike Dungent from the city of Rutland. Ron Kummetz, chief of the Alberg Fire Department is the representative from the Vermont State Firefighters Association. And the EMS community is, is represented by Michael Wright, chief executive officer of CalX Ambulance. So the task force is supported, has been supported, since our inception really or soon thereafter by a team of contracted, partners. One, one of those, partners is a company called Televate, who serves as the project management, team for the task force and really serves as trusted advisors as we navigate through all the different aspects of the work required by Act 78. And then we also hired a team of subject matter experts from mission critical partners. And I'll tell you more about the work of both of those in just a bit. So certainly, we appreciate all the work of the Task Force members, and those contracted partners, all the work they've done and continue to do to advance the work of the Task Force. Here's a program overview, kind of how we have applied the requirements of Act 78 to our work. The task force has held over 70 regular meetings over the past two and a half years, all of them open to the public, and with the help of our contracted partners, engaged in multiple stakeholder meetings around the state to gather and analyze information about the existing public safety dispatch landscape, including LMR, mobile data, and other critical systems. Much of the early outreach to stakeholders was conducted by mission critical partners, who also facilitated those various stakeholder meetings around the state. And mission critical, was tasked with producing two reports for the task force. One was the system inventory and assessment report, and the second was the system planning options and recommendations report. So the inventory and assessment really ident or answered many of the requirements, for information gathering that were laid out in act 78. And then the system planning report was designed to prevent I mean, to present options to the task force of potential paths forward in various areas related to public safety communications. So the information in both of those reports serves as a foundation for the Task Force discussions that resulted in the recommendations that you will see today. Both of these reports are available on the Task Force webpage, and I can certainly send them over to you if that's easier so you can have them all in one spot. So as stated in Act 78, the primary goal of the task force is to advance this reliable, secure and interoperable statewide public safety communication system. These preliminary recommendations should be viewed as first steps in what will be a long path forward to improving and supporting the public safety communications system in Vermont. The recommendations utilize resources that you, the legislature, already provided to us via the general fund and are what the task force sees as viable options in this complex multifaceted work. We believe the task force believes that these recommendations or implementation of them will lay a sound foundation for the future expansion and enhancements within the system itself. I mentioned that we are developing this more detailed report that will be coming along soon. And we're looking forward to continued feedback from you, of course, and really from all of our stakeholders when those additional details are released in the next week or so. And I do want to mention here that the nine eleven board itself has not reviewed the entirety of these recommendations. So when I'm talking to you today, I'm speaking as the co chair of the task force, but not necessarily conveying the nine eleven board's full position on this. So I just wanted to make that clarification.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Barb, before

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: you go on, can I just add one thing?

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yes. Yes.

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: Just to give you context, Barb is being, very professional here. I've never been accused of being subtle, so I'll just say it this way. To accomplish the goals that have been laid out in this act are incredibly challenging. This is a Middle East peace level challenge of of getting everyone to agree. It's challenging politically. It's challenging economically. It's challenging technologically. And what we're presenting to you today, as as Barr pointed out, really are foundational first steps. There is no panacea, there's no magic bullet or pill that we can offer that is just going to turn this around and fix all these challenges. What we've tried to do is be very responsible, thinking about resources that are available to us immediately, and build a foundation that we can build upon. So I hope you'll take these recommendations in that spirit. Thanks, Barb.

[Barb Neal]: Yes. Excellent. Thank you, Dan. So as as the recommendations were being developed, the task force identified multiple strategic objectives from Act 78, and we're presenting these to you kind of aligned with those objectives, so that you can see kind of what our thinking was on all of these different aspects of the system. So strategic objective number one was governance and establishing a governance system. The task force recommends establishment of a governance board that operates as an independent entity, has decision making authority and the authority to approve minimum technical and operational standards and enter into contracts and agreements, And that promotes service improvement and organic consolidation based on common performance benchmarks. The governance board would have a number of responsibilities related to the other strategic objectives here, including reliability, excuse me, which brings you to the second entry on this table. The governance board would then establish a minimum set of policies, procedures, and protocols to be followed by all dispatch centers serving Vermont. There'd be the development of standardized quality assurance, quality control process and materials. The governance board would develop a list of approved initial and ongoing training programs followed by a statewide certification program for all emergency communications personnel. The Board would develop templates to standardize job classifications and descriptions and promote dispatcher reclassification. Ongoing dispatcher training and leadership workshops would be developed. The Board would support or work to support a hybrid staffing solution that could be used across centers for resource backfill and staffing emergencies, and then would also develop solutions and best practices to facilitate statewide public safety system communication system, rather technical and operational failover. So those all would be the tasks associated with reliability in a statewide system. Regarding the strategic objective of interoperability, the recommendation is to secure a new computer aided dispatch system with multidisciplinary functionality. So addressing the needs of not only police, but also fire and EMS, and then building towards or ensuring CAD to CAD interoperability exists, and that there are interfaces to location data mapping and any records management systems that might be in place. Also, the recommendation is to expand the use of RapidSOS and the state GIS resources for all dispatch centers. And since I have a level of knowledge on this particular thing, I'll expand a little bit. RapidSOS is the mapping solution that is used in the nine eleven system. The nine eleven board has actually secured some licenses to, allow dispatch centers access to the same mapping solution. The task force is looking, and I'll get to this a little more detail in a minute, is looking to provide some funding to provide additional licenses for the RapidSOS solution in dispatch centers. This will allow, it'll allow for a more seamless flow of information between the nine eleven system and the dispatch centers around the state. Another recommendation related to interoperability is to update the LMR, the land mobile radio infrastructure. And I'm sorry, lost my place here. And I'm going on to the next slide here. Right. Okay. So that was it for interoperability. Sustainability objective would be met through the governance board and its operations being covered by remaining Act 78 funding for three years, at which time dispatch fee assessments would continue to provide funding for that governance board. In the objective of achieving equity, the task force recommends that fee formula be established that incorporates towns that are not currently paying for dispatch services. There's a lot that could go into the development of this formula that would need to be discussed by the governance board and finalized. But the task force certainly sees the inequity in some agencies or towns paying for dispatch services and others not. And then security is another strategic objective. The recommendation is to establish statewide cybersecurity governance risk and compliance framework and perform periodic assessments and direction related to cybersecurity. And accessibility. So, all dispatch centers would be I want to say it required it would depend anyway, all dispatch centers, the goal would be that all dispatch centers provide service, subject to specific policy and technology benchmarks as defined by the governance board. That collected dispatch fees would support technology and shared shared resources for all dispatch centers, and that the governance board would would work with the broadband board and the public service department to provide coverage gap data to cellular providers. And I'm gonna pause here for a second to see if Dan or Paul has anything to add on, because this was a pretty high level overview of the recommendations. Dan, do you have anything more?

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: Yeah, I'll just add one element. One of the biggest challenges that we identified in the comprehensive review is fractured nature of our system. And we have dispatch centers that are operating little or no supervision with different levels of quality. The establishment of a centralized governance process is the first step in bringing that fractured system together. Now there's a lot of different ways that can be done, but the most important element of that is to establish standards and review and and and to define essentially what dispatch is in the state of Vermont. I I think that will lead to a lot of the other elements that we're about to discuss. We have that capability that can say, this is what it needs to be a dispatch center, this

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: is what it needs to

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: be a dispatcher, this is the qualifications, we can sort out a lot of the other issues that are

[Patrick Malone]: going on further on down

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: the line. So to me, that's the foundation that's motion.

[Barb Neal]: Great, thank you. Paul, anything to add here?

[Paul White]: I don't have anything to add right now. Thank you, Barbara.

[Barb Neal]: Okay, then I'll carry on, and we'll get into a little bit of the, again, high level funding discussion. So, what we're looking at is is the resources that have already been provided to the task force. So there was an $11,000,000 general fund, appropriation, some of which was made available to the task force for some for the work that has already been done. Right? So the hiring of, subject matter experts, our project management team, those efforts have been funded out of this 11,000,000. And of the remaining funds, and I don't have an exact amount, but I'm gonna guess it's in the 9,000,000 range. That is what we're working with when we when we talk about this proposed funding allocation. So not asking for any additional money at this point. So so for the category of governance, the operation of that governance board for the first three years would be about 1,600,000.0 of those remaining funds that have already been allocated. There is a budget or a line item for an initial investment of $30,000 related to the development dispatch operational standards, and an initial investment of $150,000 related to training and staffing that's continued for two additional years. The CAD system that the task force is recommending be pursued would account for a five year investment of $2,000,000 And there's a short term mapping support line item in our proposal of $40,000, continuing over the two additional years to allow, those dispatch centers that I mentioned earlier access and licensing for the RapidSOS solution. And then we've got a line item of 150,000 for the development of that cybersecurity governance risk and compliance framework. The biggest chunk of the existing funds would go toward an initial investment to support the development of an interoperable public safety LMR network. There are others who can speak much more clearly to the details of this, but that initial investment we've got figured in at 4,500,000.0 of those remaining funds that would include planning and deployment of aspects of an LMR proposal.

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: LMR means land mobile radio, by the way.

[Barb Neal]: Yeah. Thank you, Dan. Dispatch center facilities, the the governance board would be working on the development of, benchmarks for those facilities, and then the dispatch equity funding strategy. So dispatch fees, the dispatch fee structure would be tasked, a task that the governance board takes on, to finalize that. And following the third year, that fee formula likely would go into effect probably, gradually implemented, over time. So some of the funding in the in the, remaining funds, would go to supporting those dispatch fees for some number of some number of years. And this would also allow us to consider, alternative funding options, that might have been useful in other jurisdictions, that could prove useful here in Vermont. So I haven't totaled up all my math, but it should approach the $9,000,000 mark with all those items in there. And again, this is existing funding that that we would simply need the authority to work with. And then so in summary, really, the Task Force would like the legislature to consider is authorizing the Task Force to allocate a percentage of the remaining Act 78 program funding, specifically initially to prepare a computer aided dispatch RFP request for proposal. We've already begun work actually on gathering or identifying who might be involved in a stakeholder requirements gathering effort, and so on. And then the funding to provide all Vermont dispatch centers with the licensing for this rapid SOS solution that I mentioned earlier. We'd like the legislature to direct the task force to initiate activities to create the proposed Public Safety Governance Board, Communications Governance Board, and allow us the authority, if you will, to continue to work the program until a governance board is established. A few of the efforts underway are listed on the or that would be underway are listed here on the on the slide. And I'll pause once again here to to see if Dan or Paul have anything to add at this point.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: No, thank you. Gentlemen? I

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: think perhaps the only other piece that I'll mention is around the equity piece. Just for those who are new to this, there are a number of communities that pay for dispatch, particularly when it comes to the state police dispatch service, there are a number of communities who do not. There's also a number of shared services that different municipalities utilize that are common to everyone or common to most, and most of those are not charged for. So we think it's pretty reasonable to say that we can envision, and by the way, we're trying to break the budget of any municipality or any of this sort of thing, but to say that there is probably some responsible way to determine what measure of cost goes into those things and divide it equally among the users of it. So that that's a piece that's under discussion that would be under discussion with the governance, but the idea is to make things equal within the the framework.

[Barb Neal]: Okay. Paul, anything?

[Paul White]: Sure. I guess I'll jump in now.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yes, please.

[Paul White]: Good morning. My name is Paul White, and if you look at your agenda for today for the committee, it would give you the impression that I'm here speaking on behalf of the Vermont State Police, but that I just want to tell you that that is in fact not the case. I am retired from the state police, but I am here solely as a representative of this task force. I guess the beauty of my position now on the task force is that unlike Barb and Deputy Commissioner Batesy is that I'm no longer working for the state, so perhaps I can get away with saying things that they can't. I guess when we first, when this task force was first assembled, you know, two and a half years ago, and then the prior working group in 2022 before that, the situation was different than what we find ourselves in today. There was there was a lot more urgency when the task force and the prior working group were stood up. There was a lot of expectations that things were going to get done promptly. You know, every time we appeared before a committee, it was like, why aren't you moving faster? This has got to get done. There was really a high sense of urgency. Since the since this biennium began, I, for one, don't feel that sense of urgency anymore. In fact, I came into this committee meeting today wondering if the committee members are even aware of this task force in our work, or are we just sort of this entity that's chugging away in the background? And it's not just from this lack of feeling the sense of urgency, not just from the legislature, but also from the administration. So, for my takeaway from today is I'm hoping to get some reassurance that we we're still doing the work that you all want us to do. You know, we've got somewhere around four years of work invested into this project so far. We're at the point where we can't really do a whole lot more without some authorization to spend money that was already appropriated. And so I guess I would like to walk out knowing that that we've given you a little more understanding of of what we're doing and that we have an understanding of what you would like us to do and that we're not just headed off down a path that nobody wants us to go down anymore.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Yes, thank you very much for that, sir. The reason we have you in today is we know that the report has been preliminary, has been delivered, and we're expecting some more information, I understand. And we're really interested in this subject back when we were down in Room 10. We had you all in a couple of years ago, and this was really important to us. So this is our follow-up to see how things are progressing and really happy to hear your recommendations. We will take them seriously and work with you on them. So, yeah, we have not forgotten. So, thanks for being here.

[Paul White]: Great. Well, you. Thanks for having us.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Just for the record, how would you like to be listed on our agenda? Because we'll relist your title.

[Paul White]: Well, I'm just I'm the Vice Chair of the Public Safety Communications Task Force.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Okay, great. We will

[Paul White]: relist When I previously chaired the working group that preceded this task force, I was the chair of the Barrytown Select Board and was actually representing the League of Cities and Towns. But I can't even say that anymore because I chose not to run for my seat on the select board. So, I'm just a task force member at this point. Thank you.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Well, thank you very much for that work. We appreciate it, and we'll get that corrected on our agenda. Any questions for Mr. White or Ms. Neal or Deputy Commissioner? There's a lot here. We're going to have some follow-up meetings for sure. So, have a few more

[Rep. Sandra "Sandy" Pinsonault]: minutes. We have

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: a while yet.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yeah. No. No. We do have to but I mean, if there's nothing else from these folks.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Anything else on the report that you feel, is important for us to know now, miss Neil?

[Barb Neal]: I think the most important thing right now is maybe that there are more details coming that I think will, you know, kind of help enhance your understanding of what it is the task force is recommending, provide a little bit more context, perhaps. Other than that, though, no. I guess the answer is no. I plan to send you a copy of the presentation from today. Is it useful or do you already have those two other big reports, the system planning and the inventory and assessment? I could send those along as well, if that's We

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: have posted on our page. Hold on. Let me pull this. I'm not

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: sure we have those reports. The recommendations for

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: the task force. Yeah. So if you want to send us both of those clean with the presentation, that would be amazing.

[Barb Neal]: Okay. They're lengthy, just preparing you.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Duly noted.

[Barb Neal]: Okay. So I will send those along as well. I think I speak for all of us when I say we're looking forward to continuing the conversation, and we'll get the details to you as soon as they become available. And sounds like we'll talk again.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: That's great. Thank you. I do have one additional question. You may have said this while I was briefly out of the room. When do you expect the next report to be filed?

[Barb Neal]: Correct me if I'm wrong, Dan or Paul, but I think we are looking at the next ten days to two weeks to get that over by the end of the month.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay.

[Barb Neal]: Very good. My recollection.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Yes. No. And it's my intention to do work within this deliverable, and also some of the other components that revolve around this when we start taking a look at our emergency management emergency response policy in the coming weeks. So, representative Hango is going be the point person on this conversation. So, thank you for getting this to this point. I know this was a massive lift, a big charge in duty, and we look forward to honing it in with

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: you. I'll say thank you on behalf of my colleagues as well, and I do concur this is a rabbit hole that can take you in technical and other directions. We are more than happy to answer your questions anytime and follow-up with anything that you would like us to follow-up on.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: That would be great. As clear and concise as possible in layman's language would be much appreciated.

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: Talking to the right guy for that.

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: Thank you so much.

[Barb Neal]: Alright, thank you. Thank you very much.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: We once had an acronym chart developed by the National Garden, that organization. No, just a thought. 195

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: pages long.

[Patrick Malone]: No, but

[Unidentified Committee Member]: I'm serious. Thank

[Rep. Lisa Hango (Vice Chair)]: you so much.

[Deputy Commissioner Dan Batsie]: Yes, very much.

[Rep. Philip Jay "Jay" Hooper (Acting Chair)]: Thank you. So, all right, thank you very much. All right, committee. We did, finish up a little early, but let's take a look at the stuff we're gonna be working on later today. And we also had a big slug of bills coming in the last forty eight hours. Yeah. So if folks wanna start identifying things for action, or I shouldn't say action, but for introduction walkthrough, know, start taking a peek at the wall because it is I'm at the point where I think I might have to ask DGS or another cork board. Oh, yeah. And I have a long lunch meeting from twelve to one, so I'm gonna go get on some emails and some other correspondence that I need to attend to.