Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: We're live. My brother's

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: Hi. We're live. Do you want us to meet?

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: We gonna welcome everybody to the House Committee on General and Housing. Today is Friday, as well as 04/10/2026, and we're going to change the order here. The first item on our published agenda was S-three 28, more on three twenty eight, more testimony, and then the second was S-eighty nine, survivor benefits, with a possible discussion and a possible vote. We're flipping the order, just letting everyone know that, and we're going to deal with S89 first. So in order to simplify things, for those listening, we have had substantial committee discussion on this. We also have, because of the fine work of our legislative council, had two drafts. Both of them are very similar to the Senate draft. Draft 3.1 is the Senate draft with minor changes that are technical in nature. Draft 2.2 expanded the senate draft substantively. My reading of the committee in our last time was that there was a preference for 3.1 with some reluctance about not expanding it on the part of some members, but at any rate, I would like to have a motion on the floor. Mary, do you want to make a motion?

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: I'd like to make a motion that we vote on S89

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: version 3.1. Second. Okay, so we have a motion and a second on the floor for version 3.1. And to clarify, well forgive me, just wanted to take a moment to clarify, this is the Senate bill, except it essentially adds two things. One is it makes it prospective. So, thank you, darling. And the second one, and these came at the request of the Treasury Department. The second one is this. Hi, Sophie, we are just about we have a motion on the floor to adopt 3.1. And in fact, you've learned And

[Elizabeth Burrows (Member)]: I seconded it.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: And it's seconded it's on the floor. And you have welcome, guys. So

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: there's room here if people squish a little bit.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Where are you guys from? Western Spouse. Oh, welcome. Well, this is the committee on the General of the House, and what we have in front of us, this is actually an interesting moment, we have a bill, and this bill, we have a bill that if certain people, particularly people whose professions put them in harm's way, like firemen, policemen, and also family services employees Rutgers. Rapturing workers, etc. Those people are unfortunately, very unfortunately, should die in the line of duty. This gives the state, the state gives their heirs, their families, dollars 80,000. That's in addition to other benefits, and we are discussing this bill, and in order to, we're at the end of a long process where we've had hearings, and we have a Senate version in front of us. The Senate means they passed a bill to come over to us, and it's up to us to decide whether to act or not. And we have the motion on the floor to enact draft 3.1. So if you tell me if I'm wrong in saying this. So 3.1 is the Senate bill with two major changes. They're both kind of quasi technical. 3.1. Stitching. One is, it's frustration. The second is, it allows treasurer's office, the board, to hire expertise if it needs it, and my understanding is that with respect to firefighters, there's a rather elaborate iteration of advice on how to handle illness related illness that comes, illness and death that comes as a result of work, the dangerous work. But with respect to the other categories, the non firefighters, it's not as clear. There's not this body of information. Is it in the workers' comp, which is you, the workers' there isn't this body, and so the treasurer's office felt that if a claim came to them and involved someone who's died, as a result, they claimed as a result of their work because of exposure to chemicals, etcetera, that their treasurer's office should be allowed to hire an expert, and as you know, in an administrative body like the treasurer's office, they can't just do whatever they want to pursue the general health and welfare like this town can. They need authorization, so that means Bill. Excuse me, is there a discussion? Yes. I have any states on motion.

[Elizabeth Burrows (Member)]: Oh yeah, we had a motion and a second.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Yes, it's not on the floor.

[Elizabeth Burrows (Member)]: I feel like we've been waiting a really long time to get here. I'm really excited to vote in favor of this bill. It's taken such a journey over several years. Thank you for the committee members who are new this year for taking the time to learn about it and ask really important questions. And I was sponsor on the House side bill for many years, so I'm excited to vote yes, and I hope folks will join me in that EA vote.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Thank you. Sure. Other members of the committee wish to add anything?

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: Yes. Don't want to add anything, but it might benefit the committee to hear about the conversation that you and Tom had with Betsy Ann

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: yesterday, that

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: not only does this bill almost like will have to go to appropriations, it will also have to go to doesn't?

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: But I will take your suggestion. Some of you may have remembered that Tom, as one of the honorary attorneys on this committee, raised the issue of whether since there was not an appropriation, that there simply was a bunch of money lying in the fund, did it really have to go to approach? So we went to Betsy Anne. We had a discussion with Betsy Ann, which Betsy Ann, by the way, for the visitors, hates our clerk, who is also an attorney and very, very thoughtful and good. Not our clerk. The clerk of the House. You were in the House this morning, weren't you? So what you saw is every time a bill was going to be talked about, someone stood up from that table and read, That's the clerk's group of clerks. Okay. So Betsy Ann thought about it, looked at the bill very thoroughly, and concluded pretty quickly, yes, it had to go to appropriations for various reasons, right, However, be careful of what you ask for. She also said, Well, wait a minute, why doesn't it have to go to Ways and Means? Well, I said, well, age of 57 didn't have to go to Ways and Means. I mean, we were working it, and she said, well, but of course now the emergency board is authorized to put money into the fund and all of this, and then the more she talked about it, the more she thought maybe not, but she ended up, she said, Is there a fiscal note? I said, There's a draft fiscal note. So she wrote Chris Rutland. Remember Chris?

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: We do.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: And Chris said, No, it doesn't have to go to ways and means. So there you go. To approach or ways and means?

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: Justify. To wage and means, so it's to approach them.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Going to approach, not

[Elizabeth Burrows (Member)]: raise Oh, and it is going to approach them.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Yes, it is going to approach, not raise and As fact. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah. Anybody else wish to comment before the clerk of our committee calls the roll? Ready. All right. Madam Clerk, would you like

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: to call the roll? Yes, thank you. Representative Bartley? Yes. Representative Burrows?

[Elizabeth Burrows (Member)]: Yes. Representative Charlton?

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Yes.

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: Representative Dodge? Yes. Representative Dolgin? Yes. Representative Howard Folks? Yes. Representative Krasnow? Yes. Representative LaMont? Yes. Representative Parsons? Absent? Representative Pezzo? Yes. Representative Chair. Oh, it's Representative Holly.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Sorry about that. Okay. So that would be 10. Ten, zero, one. What we do here is we use three numbers to report. So the first number is how many voted in favor. As we hear, 10. Second number is how many are on the hands, zero. The third number is how many people were absent. And there is no such thing in Vermont, which you should know. There is no such thing as an abstention. You can't just say, I don't want to vote. There's an obligation under the constitution. So that's why it's just three numbers, yes. What about a recusal? Yes, you can recuse yourself for conflict, which happens rarely in the state since everyone is connected to everything.

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: Right, but you don't individually to recuse yourself, you have to directly benefit financially more than anybody else would.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Right, that's right.

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: Also, perception is reality.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: First of all, I want to congratulate the committee on this issue, and I want to congratulate Mary, because I feel like you've had it a long time, which is an understatement. And I would like, Elizabeth, would you agree to be the reporter on this bill? Yes. You send Madam Committee Assistant, would you send the appropriate emails so that she can inform the court? We passed a bill. All that means, this body works by committees. These committees are incredibly important. It's really hard to make policy with a group of 150 people, so the committees are incredibly important. So that means this committee, we didn't make it law, we just merely recommended to the body, but since it has money in it, sort of, it goes to another committee. So what will happen on Tuesday is the speaker will, when she gets up, she will say, before she starts anything else, after the Pledge of Allegiance and after the prayer, whatever, she's going to say, I have a bill to refer to a money committee, and she will say, S89 is referred to the committee on appropriations. Then the committee on appropriations has to hear it, and they will hear it on Tuesday or Wednesday. Maybe. Yeah, I believe they will. Committees do have discretion as to what they hear, and there's a good reason for that, in that we don't have the time to hear anything. Everything. And if you want an evidence of that fact, you see that bulletin board over there? Everything on the right, you see where it says out? All of those bills, we passed out of its committee just like you saw, and we are going to add another little card that will say S89. All the bills on the left, we didn't get to. What's next? What's next is Lauren Hibbert is going to testify on

[Elizabeth Burrows (Member)]: the piece around common interest. I'm here. I have to deliver a coffee. Okay. What time is she Is she Morris?

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: She's just

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Oh, okay. I'm here at 11:30. We could go off Okay. So we're gonna go

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: Oh, you answered any questions that the public has. I just wanna thank each and every one of you for passing this bill out of our committee. As you all know, this bill has been very important to me. We had a young police officer killed in the line of duty, and I worked with her grandfather who passed away last year, and it has hit Rowland County.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: I

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: think this is an important bill. I hope we never have to use it. I hope everyone is safe. But from the bottom of my heart, thank you all so very much. I appreciate it. Thank you, Mary.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Well, what we're going to do is take a break, but before we do, do you have any questions? You get a chance, you know, don't be shy.

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: I think it's an interesting talk about

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Well, there are some benefits, but this was a special state benefit, yes.

[Elizabeth Burrows (Member)]: And sometimes there's bills that we work on where we're like, how is that not already something, you know, that's often the case.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: Yeah, I didn't even think about that.

[Elizabeth Burrows (Member)]: Now I'm going into professor mode. You talk about how our party has multiple jurisdictions? We have housing and so we were just that was more of a labor bill, but we also have housing and matters related to social justice. And then the general is like anything that doesn't have a home and another committee. So like one year we have the state march, someone wanted to like Right? A daylight savings You know? So, that's the general. We haven't had any general this year that we took up, but it's a lot of different things in the

[Mary E. Howard (Clerk)]: committee.

[Marc Mihaly (Chair)]: We had one