Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: K. We're live.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: I pulled my notes here so that I don't go talking to all my kids. Alright. Sorry about that. Good morning, everyone. Sarah Sheldon, vice chair of labor, ranking member Satcowitz, and distinguished members of the House Committee on Environment. My name is Sean Moore. I'm testifying today on behalf of the US Tire Manufacturers Association or USTMA in opposition to house bill two zero four. USTMA is the national trade association representing the 11 major companies manufacturing tires in The US. More than 14,000 Vermont jobs are supported by tire manufacturing. Industry's direct economic impact in Vermont is more than a $127,000,000 a year, and tire manufacturing generates more than $24,000,000 annually in state and local tax revenue for the Green Mountain State.

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: Say that one more time.

[Rep. Chittenden (Member)]: Sure. Just from the jobs.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: 14,000 Vermont jobs. Yep. $127,000,000 direct economic impact. K. And more than $24,000,000 in state and local tax revenue.

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: Thank you. So

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: USTMA appreciates the opportunity to appear before you today to provide our views regarding H B 204. We commend representative Taylor for his leadership and his interest in ensuring responsible end of life tire management. I'll refer to end of life tires primarily as GLTs. While we very much share this goal, it's USTMA's belief that the extended producer responsibility program envisioned by HB two zero four will not address Vermont's ELT management goals. USTMA USTMA opposes EPR systems for managing ELTs because in practice, they focus on collection rather than building circular markets. They also introduce unneeded bureaucracy and cost to consumers, and they invariably bring unintended consequences. Today in the Canadian province of Ontario, the unintended consequences of EPR regulation have included bounty hunting for tires, blackmail in credit trading and a broken ELT market with growing stockpiles and safety hazards. A market based approach focused on building market demand for ELT material would mean finding a home for the ELTs that are continuously generated and building a circular economy where waste becomes a valuable raw material. To address a few of the industry's specific concerns with HB two zero four, The bill does not bolster enforcement mechanisms or address illegal dumping. H b two zero four does not develop beneficial and use markets for recycled tire rubber, which are the key to tire recycling. The stewardship organization and or organizations envisioned in HB two zero four have no enforcement authority and no ability to stop illegal dumping or prosecute bad actors operating outside their hauler processor and or storage licenses. The bill allows for multiple stewardship organizations with limited state enforcement power, meaning the manufacturers that are complying with the law would be the ones responsible for chasing down their competitors who are not participating in stewardship plan. And given the fact that the definition of manufacturer is pretty complex in this bill, it can be very difficult to understand who precisely is responsible for which brands in Vermont, especially if they have no physical presence in the state or in The US. Multiple stewardship organizations therefore create cracks for unscrupulous brand owners and importers and a host of other parties to slip between. The bill offers retailers the option to participate as collection centers. Our experience in Connecticut has shown that nearly all retailers will opt for the status quo and elect not to participate in the program, making it enormously more complicated for the TSO to collect ELTs. Further, it's unclear how multiple stewardship organizations would be held accountable for proportionally cleaning up legacy tire piles that the state has allowed to accumulate over several years. The collection rates both required and aspirational prescribed in the bill are unrealistic without tire retailer participation. The easiest way for a consumer to dispose of their old tires is to simply leave them with the retailer when they buy new tires. This outlet accounts for approximately 90% of tires collected today. In Connecticut, where retailers have declined to participate, the stewardship organization is projected to collect just 10 to 20% of tires sold in the state. Prohibition on tire derived fuel is probably unenforceable if a hauler or processor takes control of ELTs and transports them out of state. Vermont can no longer restrict what happens to those tires. The implementation timelines provided in the bill are highly unrealistic. Connecticut enacted a similar law to this in 2023. They became the nation's first state to do so. They came back in 2024 and made changes to that law. The original sponsor had a bill last year that would have made further changes to the law, but that failed. So the legislature will be considering yet another bill from the original sponsor to improve the program during this session as implementation begins concurrently. And that's because the first stewardship plan under that law was approved by DEEP in September 2025, and the law says you have one hundred and eighty days to stand up the program after the plan's approved. So hires are still not being collected in Connecticut today. They'll begin being collected late next month. All the deadlines that this all the deadlines are prescribed in this bill are less than a year from now, and some could conceivably arrive less than one month after enactment. Under existing Vermont law, end of life tires are classified as solid waste and subject to all solid waste rules. It's illegal to landfill, stockpile, transport, or process ELTs in Vermont unless permitted to do so by the Department of Environmental Conservation. While statewide ELT volume isn't tracked holistically, disposal and collection typically occur in one of two ways. Most old tires are left with the retailer that installed the new tires. Retail tire vendors are required to accept improperly vanish old tires, and they often do so while collecting a recycling disposal fee of about 4 to $5 per tire. Some residents take their tires to county solid waste district transfer stations where fees typically range between 4 and $7 a tire. There is certainly room for improvement that would enable the current system to operate more efficiently here in Vermont. It would give the EC the resources to remediate orphan tire piles and encourage the gross growth of beneficial end use markets for recycled tire rubber. USTMA has a long history of working collaboratively with a broad range of stakeholders to address challenges of this sort. USTMA would appreciate the opportunity actually, we're eager to engage with interested stakeholders in the state to build better mutual understanding of the challenges that are currently that currently exist to ELT management and to identify together a path forward that can be supported by all stakeholders. As I mentioned a moment ago, sustainable markets to consumer cycle tire rubber are key, and these markets are largely beyond the control of tire manufacturers. Old tires cannot be recycled back into new tires the way that post consumer plastic can be recycled into plastic bottles or post consumer paper into bags and other products. Once rubber is vulcanized, it has a very limited value for producing the next batch of tires. Several US t m several USTMA members do use recovered carbon black in their tires, but this accounts for only a small percentage of the tire. I have a colleague I have a colleague who often likens using recycled tire rubber to incorporating a steel cake into your next cake batter. For this reason, USTMA supports state activities to develop circular and sustainable markets recycled tire rubber, and we welcome opportunities to discuss ways to grow new and existing markets for ELTs in Vermont. To address market development for just a moment, the use of rubber modified asphalt is a mixture of ground tire rubber with asphalt, and it contributes to building roads and highways that are longer lasting, more resistant to thermal cracking, quieter, and safer. Each lane mile paved with a two inch overlay of rubber modified asphalt consumes between 1,502,000 recycled tires. Among New England states, Masstot has perhaps the most extensive familiarity with using RMA, although it's also been used in Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island. Rubber modified chip seal is particularly useful for producing superior rural roads. Incorporating purchasing preferences for cost neutral products manufactured from recycled materials like ground tire rubber can boost markets for sign bases, weights, barriers, speed humps, and other infrastructure, safety, and construction products. Reporting on purchasing preferences results to leads to real world improvements. In California, they have an extensive list of tire derived products that qualify for the state's environmentally preferred purchasing requirements. Tire derived aggregate is a broad array has a broad array of potential uses. Applications such as flexible porous pavements, erosion control products, and lightweight fill can use ELT derived materials for their engineering properties. The whole range of civil engineering and construction applications, including retaining wall backfill, water retention structures, septic system backfill, and the like could be used in Vermont with proper support and market development. I think the reason we're here today, though, is because central to this issue, there are a few bad actors that are illegally dumping and stockpiling tires around the state. In USCMA's experience, illegal dumping can be reduced with enhancement and robust enforcement of the state's antidumping laws. This makes a big difference. In other rural jurisdictions, law enforcement has used hidden trail cameras to catch and prosecute bad actors. Some states have increased penalties and made dumping certain materials like like tires a criminal violation rather than a civil infraction. Robust enforcement and prosecution of illicit ELT haulers is imperative. Unlicensed tire haulers are often where the tires leak out of the collection system and end up illegally dumped. Electronic manifest requirements provide greater accountability to ensure that ELTs are delivered to a licensed processor. These tools are well established and are effective in reducing illegal dumping as demonstrated by other states. Vermont requires financial assurance for processors, but not for haulers. USCMA supports financial assurance mechanisms for ELT haulers, which are also commonly used in other states. We further support education and enforcement efforts that are necessary for regulations to be effective. We encourage DEC to benchmark proposed regulations with other states, which can be done through collaboration with the Scrap Tire Workgroup, which is an unincorporated association of state scrap tire regulators and experts. USCMA would be glad to help facilitate that collaboration. I want you to know that these are not empty words. USCMA members are committed to environmental stewardship. This is why we joined together recently with the Tire Industry Association, tire retailers, Liberty Tire and other tire recyclers, and other stakeholders to launch the Tire Recycling Foundation to bring circularity for tires in The US to the next level. The foundation makes available research and analysis information on innovative uses for tires such as rubber modified asphalt and pilot projects. The foundation is focused on the vision of ELTs as valuable raw materials rather than problematic waste to be disposed of. Our approach is therefore to shift the focus from how ELTs are collected to where they end up and to remove obstacles that are impeding the development of sustainable circular ELT markets. I'd also just like to take a minute to say the existing ELT management system in The US has been highly successful, and Vermont is not really an outlier. ELTs are one of the most reclaimed and recycled consumer products in The US. The percentage of tires going to economically viable and environmentally sound end use markets increased from 11% in 1990 to 79% of the tires generated in 2023. And that 2023 figure is actually eight percentage points higher than in 2021. Likewise, the number of tires and stockpiles has decreased nationally by over 95% from about 1,000,000,000 tires in 1990 to about 48,000,000 today. Aside from automotive batteries, USTMA is not aware of any other consumer product that has achieved a landfill diversion rate higher than 75%. While the current ELT system is robust, we and our members share the goal that 100% of annually generated ELTs enter sustainable and circular end use markets. That next step will require stakeholder collaboration, and we are eager to engage stakeholders to build a successful circular program in Vermont. USCMA respectfully encourages the committee to convene a broader stakeholder discussion with state and local solid waste officials, environmental advocates, community leaders, ELT haulers, and processors, and retailers, and tire manufacturers to identify an alternative path forward. In conclusion, EPR systems are government mandated programs that aim to achieve 100% of recycling of a target product. While the tire industry shares this 100% reclamation recycling goal, we have been working with state partners for thirty five years to develop uses for end of life tires. We believe that the current market system of industry and states working together to determine uses for ELTs is cheaper, faster, and more effective than a typical EPR program as a baseline. UST may therefore opposes h v two zero four, and we sincerely appreciate your consideration of our position on this exceedingly important issue. We welcome the opportunity to engage in collaborative dialogue to improve ELT management in Vermont, but we respectfully urge the committee to issue an unfavorable report for h b two zero four to answer any questions you might have.

[Rep. Larry Satcowitz (Ranking Member)]: It's on the lips. Yeah. Thank you for your testimony. It does sound like there it's the beginning of a process rather than rather than the

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: end of one. It's an ongoing process.

[Rep. Larry Satcowitz (Ranking Member)]: An ongoing process for sure when you think about the bill. You talked a lot about this circular economy and the role that that we all play and making sure that things get reused, and I really appreciate that. You have a bunch of suggestions for how we could improve the process, But I I noted that most of your improvements didn't seem to cost the entire industry significant amounts of money. It was a lot of dialogue and whatnot, a lot of asking state agencies to do a better job in enforcement and and such. But it seems like the And I appreciate that tire recycling and the problem with getting tires out of the environment has gotten a lot better over the years, but it does seem like it's sort of We're at that level of diminishing returns perhaps, and we still have significant amounts of tires which aren't making their way back to where they should go. Seems like at that point, it would make sense for the industry to be taking some responsibility, including maybe putting some real resources behind trying to figure out ways to get those last tires where they ought to go. And I'm just wondering if the industry the whole idea behind extended producer responsibility is that we would like producers to be ultimately responsible for the products that they create and put out into the world, and it seems like your testimony is not really embracing that kind of responsibility. So I'm wondering if there is the possibility for a little more embracing of the responsibility of getting those last tires out of our environment, and if it is the industry willing to put some real resources into making that happen in a way that would make it so that we don't have to legislate a solution.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Yes. And that's actually I mentioned the Tire Recycling Foundation, was launched at the very 2024. The purpose and goal for that organization is to be sharing or to conduct research on markets that are necessary to fill research gaps, like and and to do some pilot projects to help grow those markets. Because if we don't have markets, it doesn't matter who's collecting the tires, manufacturers or or the government or someone else. They're just trash. They're not gonna go anywhere, and that's why markets are so important. And so the Tire Tire Industry Association I'm sorry. The Tire Recycling Foundation is aiming to put together, like, environmental product declarations for rubber modified asphalt. That's something that's been missing in this discussion and a lot of states are now looking more at the the life cycle costs of their infrastructure investments. Rubber modified asphalt lasts about two times as long as as conventional hot mix and reduces maintenance needs. So so those are things that aren't just markets to consume rubber, but are markets that also provide a benefit to the state. And so we've been working to help move that market along.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Representative Tyco. Yeah.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Tagliavia (Member)]: We received testimony that one of the state agencies said that rubber modified asphalt in the state, maybe because of the cold climate, made it it was too brittle. Do you have any studies that show at what temperatures it's it's most effective and it will last as long as you just said?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Yes. And I can get those for you. I'm happy to provide those to the committee. The beginning of rubber modified asphalt started in Arizona, and it was primarily used for a long time as it's called the wet process, and it's used primarily in hot weather states. In 1990 or 1991, when the federal government passed the highway authorization bill, ICE T, it required states use a certain percentage of rubber modified asphalt. And the this is 1990, 1991. The technology wasn't there, and a lot of those projects were a disaster, and that part that portion was repealed the next year. Rubber modified asphalt's come a long way in thirty five years, and there's a new process that costs a lot less. It's the dry process, and it's easier for there's lower barriers to entry for pavers to get into that market. We work very closely with the Innovative Pavements Material and Materials Lab at University of Missouri. They do a lot of research on rubber modified asphalt both on their own and for us. And they had done a study on the Illinois Tollway, and I'm forgetting which year it was. I think it was 2018, but the Tollway uses stone matrix rubber modified asphalt. And they had the polar vortex or whatever where it was 30 below for however many days. It didn't change anything in the the pavement. The and it's actually it resists thermal cracking, so better than traditional asphalt. So, yes, I I can get you those studies that demonstrate that. Thank you.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Representing that's

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: you. Yeah. I that was really help I mean, that was good testimony, and it had a lot of data in it. I'm just wondering, will we get a copy of that?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Happy to provide it.

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: That'd be great. You talk a lot about circular economy, which is a term I'm just kind of in the last year or so beginning to hear. And I think simply it's saying just recycling everything basically. Can you tell me how you would operationalize circular the circular economy concept to tires, to these tires?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Sure. So some of our members are using recovered carbon black, which is thing thing that gives the tire its color, but actually gives it its strength or one of the materials that gives it strength. Gives a lot of strength, but it's it's used as a filler to provide the durability for the tire. That, as I mentioned, is a small percentage of the the tire. The the very circular markets for recycled tire rubber are probably rubber modified asphalt would be the top one because asphalt's one of the most recycled products on earth that can be scraped up and recycled back into the next next road. There are also larger I mentioned kind of barriers and sign bases and those sorts of things. Those are called molded and extruded products, and those are also recyclable bent. And sometimes it it's harder to account for them, though. Like, what do do with your car floor mats that are probably made out of recycled tyrosine?

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: I'm kind of more interested in just who would be responsible. What would be if you do, like, a circular or some kind of visual? Like, what would it look like in terms of the circular economy?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: I think it would be a shift.

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: From a manufacturer, you know, to the final recycling effort.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Yeah. Sure. I I think it's a there's a shared responsibility across the system. We recognize that we have a role in this as well, and that's why we've been trying to help promote more markets. The issue with with the growing number of tires that are being landfilled or being put on the ground in nonpreferable ways is the fact that generation of scrap tires is primarily growing nationally at about 13%, and the markets are only growing at about 6%. So we're trying to focus on markets to catch up so that we don't end up back where we were in 1991. And and that's and there's been a lot of forces that are looking to actually increase that number of tires that we've been pushing back on. So

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Representative North? I can share it. Thank you for your testimony here today. And I fully understand the concept of circular economy and that last quarter of the circuit where you take the recycled material and actually do something with it to bring it back into it, something new to to bring it back around. It may not be the the original new product, but some other new product to go back around is is critical. And that's that last quarter is is critical. So what what do you see as the tire manufacturer's responsibility in completing that cycle. I mean, there nationally, we have made manufacturers responsible to clean up their own messes in a lot of areas. And there are tire piles, obscene tire piles, all over the place that represent the lack of engagement by the manufacturers to clean up their own messes. So what do you see as the tire manufacturer's responsibility to to help finish that last quarter and then also to clean up the work from the tire piles of that rear base?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: I think helping to grow markets is the and that takes care of both issues. If you have markets that can consume those tire piles, the those tires go into the the markets, and that's why we've been promoting markets so heavily. We invest a lot of resources into the the Tire Recycling Foundation. We host a national conference every other year. There's there'll be one in Denver in May that scrap tire regulators come to and exchange ideas, and that's where we've gotten the idea to invest more heavily in research on end of life end of tire end of life tire markets so that there aren't questions environmental questions about them, that we have the data to show that they're environmentally sound. They're collecting that. So that's that's where we've been trying to do it the most, and I I think incorporating the small bit that can be recycled tires into it.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Yeah. And that that's very exciting. I was really happy to hear about the Tire Recycling Foundation and the work. So is that currently, that Tire Recycling Foundation, funded by the manufacturers? I mean, that's

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: It's funded by a collaboration, manufacturers, retailers, different processors and haulers. It's so it's an industry led foundation, but it also has stakeholders from there's a group called the Ray in Georgia, and that they're a nonprofit that has with the Georgia Department of Transportation, and they have an 18 mile stretch of highway on I 85 from the Alabama border into Georgia. And they use that highway to test innovative and, like, future products for for the essentially, future of transportation. And rubber modified asphalt is used on on the the roads. They also have, like, photovoltaic material that's on the exit ramps and entrance ramps that powers the lights and everything like that. They use they test different types of reflective materials. So they they have a big interest in rubber modified asphalt as well. Georgia has a big problem with tire dumping, so they've been very involved and a great partner.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: So very thankful to hear that as as a free market capitalist, I'm very happy to hear that the private industry is is funding that's taken up. But I don't I don't know that that, in in general, we can just rely on the Like that. That's that the generosity of of private industry to make sure that everything gets cleaned up. So given that this has already started, the the tire recyclers recycling foundation, what do you see would be alternatives to h two zero four that would promote or even require demand that the Tire Recycling Foundation and the manufacturers be responsible for for these tires and create those aftermarkets, as I say, to to finish that last quarter of the circle? What what do we need to put in place to it's like, you gotta do it.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: I would have to give more thought to that to provide a meaningful answer. So happy to

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: I think that's that's that's kinda what we're all here trying to do. Because e EPR seemed like the the the reasonable solution. But if if the manufacturer was saying, no. We've already got something else going on. Great. How do we make sure that that happens and happens timely and that is functional? It's not an EPR.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Yeah. And it's it's tricky because know, EPR might work for things like paint or mattresses. It didn't have a collection system that existed, but there's a collection system that's existed for thirty five years. And we believe in continuous improvement, and our goal is 100% of collection of end of life tires. And we're on our way there. We just there's still work left to do. So So is it just a matter of time

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: that, like, the let the technology get there sort of I think that it

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: would be helpful if the state DOT had a spec for rubber modified asphalt or for rubber modified chip seal. As I mentioned, chip seal is great in rural environments. It can go it can be laid down very quickly, and it lasts a while. And Fraction. Yeah.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Fraction. And it and it doesn't trail off into the water streams and pollute the water with microplastics and all that?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Not anymore than rubber or sorry. Not anymore than regular asphalt is my understanding. I I don't know anything about the the microplastics, but I know that California has a mandate that I think it's 35% of their county roads be paved using over modified asphalt. And so they they have a vested interest in doing this research as well, and they've looked at zinc and a chemical called six PPD and tried to determine whether or not they have whether or not rubber modified asphalt contributes more tire material runoff to the streams than conventional hot mix, and they found it does not.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: So I

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: think sorry to consume so much time.

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: It's good good questioning. So

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: I think what you're saying is that we, as a legislature, had to demand our own Department of Transportation since what you're saying is the tire manufacturers view motor modified asphalt as as the primary way to to complete that last quarter of the of the circular economy. It's gonna demand our own transportation, at least to study in how we could best foster that market.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Precisely. Yeah. I mean and that's one of the things that that doesn't come with EPR is, like, manufacturers don't have the ability to decide what material goes down on the roads. And and so being having a state and we're not saying put a mandate for RMA. I mean, we're just saying open the door for RMA and make it a little bit easier for it to be used where local governments believe it it's

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: beneficial. Thank you.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Thank you, Pritchard. Yeah. It's free to go.

[Rep. Chittenden (Member)]: Sorry. Real quickly.

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: Do you know if, like, nine below or 11 below zero asphalt, rubber asphalt, can be used in very cold temperatures?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: It can it can be used on very cold temperatures.

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: First first picture. Then Mike Tagliavia. Then Ela.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: Yeah. So thanks for your testimony. I I just wanna make sure I understand.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: We got four to go. Are you

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: saying that 90% of the tires now are captured?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Between ninety and ninety five percent of the tires are captured.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Okay.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: Do you know what the number of tires the actual number of tires that aren't captured,

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: that 10%? Well, generally, it's the back of the envelope calculation is one tire per person per year. So Vermont has roughly 300 buildings.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: So third oh, okay.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: So, like from Vermont. Yeah. And and so if we're estimating in Vermont, it would be 5% of that number. Five to 10%.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: So 30,000 tires? Yes. Modified asphalt, what is the cost difference between laying down modified asphalt and the typical conventional paving that we do now? Is there cost savings there?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Over the life cycle cost, but on the front end, it is typically a little bit more expensive. And I wanna clarify that it's it wouldn't be 30,000 tires that aren't being captured. It would be 30,000 tires that are being captured in a mechanism outside of the retail environment. So the retailers are capturing between 9095% right now. Most of the other tires are then brought to solid waste transfer stations or they people turn them into swings or planters, that sort of thing.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: But Okay.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: It depends on the use, the design of the road. The there are a lot of factors that go into that, whether or not rubber modified asphalt is not necessarily the answer in every situation. There are some situations, some road types are not road engineer, but where you wouldn't use rubber modified asphalt. It's there are programs, like, in California. They actually provide their counties the cost differential from, like, if they get a bid for conventional hot mix, and then they get a bid for rubber modified asphalt, they pay the difference on the front end. So it doesn't. The counties don't incur any cost. And that money is raised the money that that comes from it is raised on the sale of new tires. The life cycle cost, though, is far less than traditional asphalt. And, unfortunately, most DOTs don't make their decisions based entirely on life cycle cost. A lot of a lot

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: of fossil fuel goes into to conventional laptop. Is there savings on that end with recycling? Likely,

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: no. Or I think if there is, it would likely be very minimal. Okay. The when rubber is incorporated into the to asphalt, it's not the road doesn't balance or anything. It's it's not like the pour in place kids playground surfaces that that you might see for ADA accessibility, but it's a small amount of rubber that's that's added in, and it's encapsulated in the rubber binder. So it actually kinda, like, acts more as the glue, like, holding the asphalt together than it does the the surface area. And

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: I'll stop there. Okay. Last question. So these recycling asphalt facilities, what's the closest one to our location? That I don't

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: happy to look and find them for you.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: Are there any in New England?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: I believe there are, but I'm not

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: I would be interested in having that. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Excellent. I

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Tagliavia (Member)]: think this one is probably gonna be a short answer for you, but I'm not sure. But with respect to the tire manufacturing, and I know they're manufactured tires are manufactured for their durability and and mileage rating and stuff like that. Is there any research that you know of to, while not losing those properties, make the tires or recycle them?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Yes, and there's also major efforts to make them more environmentally sustainable as well. So rice husk have been added into as a filler. There's a lot of tires now have some soybean oil in them. They're where our members are looking for a more sustainable source of domestic source of natural rubber. So natural rubber, the vast majority of it comes from Southeast Asia. There's a small percentage that comes from or is grown in Brazil, but I don't know that they export much at all. And our members have been looking at Russian dandelion and guaiule, which is a shrub that's native to the Southwest that might be able to provide rubber. And if it's if it's not even if those are never a full replacement for rubber, reducing the amount of rubber that we're importing, shipping across seas would be important. So, yes, we're trying to make them more sustainable and and more recyclable. Representative Chittenden.

[Rep. Chittenden (Member)]: Guess I'd just love to point out and see if you have a response. A market based solution works when markets can work. And in the recycling world, you see a lot of markets come and go. You see all of a sudden extraction of the material is cheaper than the recycling of it. Then those changes up and down and it totally affects where manufacturers are buying their raw material. It can be a really volatile process. You're pointing out that we're discussing sort of the monetary ups and downs and challenges. And then you've got like, does the material actually end up adding microplastics to our water? Now we have to regulate that. So there's just a lot of questions that come up around that and other factors. And so I hear you saying, and I really support, maybe we don't need an EPR for everything. And if there's already a good collection system, which I do agree generally we have, what's the most efficient and effective system to address the problems? And the problem I don't hear you mentioning and that the market based solution doesn't address is the health issues with tires stockpiled, whether they're contributing to environmental, whether there's degradation and contributing chemicals or other things to our environment, or what we definitely know is the mosquito issue, that mosquito borne diseases are increasing in our community rapidly, actually. And so I guess I just want to point out, and I'm wondering, can the industry expand its thinking to not just say market based solutions, market based solutions, market based solutions, just work on that. And it's so important. And I'm so glad to hear some of that work in town south, and that's so important. And maybe there are some things we can do with our transportation agency to encourage those markets here locally. But I don't think we're going to feel comfortable without some kind of issue to some kind of solution like Representative North pointed out, that's not just state enforcing and building more capacity to enforce. How can there be collaboration around dealing with the waste tire piles such that we address the health and environmental issues of those piles? So I guess I'll just put that out there.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Yeah. I mean, it's true. Stockpiled tires are a human health threat and an environmental health threat. They're not only do they breed mosquitoes, but they are a fire hazard. They can catch on fire. It's why we've put so much effort into, helping reduce the number of stockpiled tires on the ground. In 1990, it was a billion. Today, it's about 48,000,000. 30,000,000 of those are on the ground in Colorado, and about 11,000,000 are on the ground in Texas. So it's vast majority is, like, in two locations, and we're working with folks to try to get those numbers down. I know Colorado just passed in 2025 or 2024 legislation to create a state owned entity that is separate from the state regulator that would develop more markets in their state. They have a company there called Pretread that makes construction barriers, like jersey walls, out of rubber. Each of them has 75 tires in them. The state is really working on growing markets, and we wanna be a part of that discussion because we don't want stockpiled tires on the ground. It's already illegal to stockpile tires in Vermont. There there are still some stockpiled tires.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Members, we're gonna have to cut this off at 09:45, simply because we're running behind, and mister Rutland is on Zoom. So, Chris Christie, you get the last question. Thank you. It's a it's a short one.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: So usually with an EPR program that we have with paint, batteries, other products that we expect consumers to return, there's not a cost for that. And you mentioned it earlier. If I buy new tires at a dealer or a service center, they take my old tires. No cost to me, really, unless it's embedded in the price of the new. If I take it to the recycle, the solid waste district, You mentioned it, 4 to 3 to $7, whatever, and I have another one in the town I live in that charges $10 a tire. That's not an incentive to return tires. That's a a disincentive, and that's what's causing the the waste side of the road, legacy files, etcetera, because people don't want to pay. How could the manufacturers or the recycle reuse of the tire be responsible or provide some sort of incentive that people could bring them back at zero cost, or like with a redemption of a bottle, 5¢. There has to be some value there for people to incentivize themselves to dispose of the tires correctly. How do you see responsibility then? It could be financial.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Yeah. So I would say with batteries or mattresses or other products like that, there is a cost. It's internalized. It's built into the the product itself. You also don't have your old mattress with you, probably, if you're gonna buy a new mattress. People don't walk around with their old batteries. The incentive to leave your tires at a retailer is that the convenience. It's inconvenient to it's easier probably to pay a few bucks than drive take them put them in the back of a car that your trunk won't hold four tires. So you probably gonna have them in your back seat and then take them to a solid waste transfer station. It's a it's it's an unfortunate fact. There are 35 states that require a tire fee be charged at the point of sale. Tricky, obviously, with the point of sale is also the point of disposal, but you charge the fee on the point of sale of the tires, so it's not negotiable. And they can you can't say, I'll take my tires with me and and, like, walk away and not pay that. So, that's one approach to it that's been successful, but, I think the convenience is probably the biggest benefit the biggest incentive.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: I do have another question about Legacy Tire Goldilfork Oland because it is approaching the witching element.

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: Just so you know, John did let us know that he's available to wait.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: And the next witness may be able to answer my question, but collecting his collection and fires.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Good. Thank you very much for

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: your testimony. I appreciate your time.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: Yep. Please submit that to the

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: I will. Process. Yeah.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Members, we're going to move instead of wanna go with 10 steps or nine forty five? He's available now. He's avail mister Letty is available now. So let's stay live, and we'll go to John Letty.

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: Great.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: He's gonna live in about the same bill, two zero four.

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: Well, we'll get a copy of this testimony. We'll get a copy of all everybody's testimony.

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: Good morning, everyone.

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: Are

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: are you ready for for me? Sorry.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Good morning, John. Sarah Labor acting. I apologize for delaying your testimony.

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: That's quite alright. You were there was a good question and answer there. I was happy I was able to listen in. Give me a little insight into what some of your thoughts are, and, hopefully, I can, answer any questions you still currently have or any that I generate through my testimony. So appreciate the opportunity to speak with you all this morning, and, hopefully, it's, helpful.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Can you please introduce yourself?

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: Yes. So my name is John Letty. I am the executive director of the Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District. We represent Franklin And Grand Isle Counties, and we're made up of 19 member communities of those counties, and our population base is about 52,000. I also am the president of the Vermont Solid Waste District Managers Association. It's a professional group made up of the, directors and managers of solid waste entities in Vermont. There's 14 members that are districts, associations, which is another subgroup of a a consolidated town, municipal group, and then some individual towns as well. We, the Solid Waste District Managers Association, represents 95% of the state of Vermont. So we have discussed this tire legislation recently. I have feedback from the other solid waste district, and association managers, so I can speak a little bit, at least based on our past conversations. I can speak to to their feelings about, waste tire management in Vermont. But I will start by describing waste tire management in, the Northwest Solid Waste District. We have four drop off points, municipal drop off points that are operated by the Solid Waste District. There are within Franklin and Grand Isle Counties, one other municipal run transfer station that collects, waste tires that is the Grand Isle Transfer Station, and then the private transfer station at the Casella Highgate transfer station, which collects tires. So those are the municipal drop off points. Oh, sorry. The our the Northwest Solid Waste District, we collect waste tires at our Montgomery drop off station, our Georgia drop off station, the Alberg transfer station, and then the North Hero transfer station. And in addition to those municipal points of drop off, as your last guest said, a good portion of waste tire management is done at the point of sale. So it's your local garage or, you know, tire retailer who are doing tire transfers, and they are collecting waste tires. To give you an idea of the number of tires that the solid waste district manages annually, last year so our fiscal year 2025, which ended, June 30, we collected just under 4,000 tires for the year or 91 tons of tires. And in addition to the tires that we collected at our drop off locations from directly from residents, we also have a program to manage tires that are picked up on the roadside. So this gets into illegal dumping, which is, statewide one of the concerns that we deal with. So, roadside dumping of tires is, prevalent. We and so through the Northwest Solid Waste District's tire assistance fund, which we collect then tires from our municipalities whose road departments may pick these these tires up on the roadside. We collected 650 tires in fiscal year two thousand twenty five, and 702 tires, in fiscal year twenty twenty four, and those represent roadside dumping. In addition to those two, as your last guest said, the farm management of waste tires or or used tires, in the agricultural sector. So farms that accept tires to help bunker their grains for the their herd is prevalent. There's a a lot of, tires that are headed towards, farms recently. You know, the mosquito is is definitely mosquito borne illness and breeding in those is something that we are also concerned with. But as long as once they are outlive their usefulness to the farms that they're being responsibly managed, you know, we see that as a win win if they're helping the farmers before find another use before their end of life.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: So

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: the tires that we collect, through the transfer station, they are managed by a company in Northern Vermont called K and S Tires. K and S Tires picks up the tires from the solid waste district and then transfers them to a company called BDS, and they are located in Maine. Most of the tires that are managed in Vermont, whether it is through a tire retailer, a small garage, or a larger sort of regional tire scrap tire manager like K and S, they're all going to BDS tires. There are exceptions, I think, especially in the southern half of the state, but in the northern half of the state, the majority of tires are going to BDS. BDS then produces, they shred tires and produce both crumb rubber for use in other products, but also tire derived fuel, which is burned, for fuel in paper mills and and other industrial applications. One concern that solid waste district managers have voiced is sort of the limited markets for used tires. The fact that BDS is, managing a vast majority of the tires in the state and that those tires are then, being used largely, you know, for tire derived fuel. If we could certainly bolster the markets for the crumb rubber and for scrap tires, whether it be through asphalt that contains scrap tire, that would be a great great benefit to the tire management system. Because only having one outlet, if that outlet shuts down, we would be in trouble for sure. And cost to residents is a factor. You know, having to pay a cost to dispose of those tires is, I think, is why we see illegal dumping. The Solid Waste District, we charge $6 per tire for end of life management. I know the garages in the region, charge a range from $3 to $9 for the end of life management. And then that's a decision point that somebody made makes. And as was mentioned earlier, people often go to get their tires changed, hear that there's an added charge, decide, oh, I'm I can get rid of this cheaper or I'm gonna manage this myself, then find out that the charge is relatively similar at, you know, one of our drop off points, and then it's either frustrated that they have to pay it, and they do, or decide they're gonna take it with them, and then we find a pile of four to eight tires on, you know, the road, the back road, or and the or they're getting dropped off by the town road crew. So those are our major concerns, and I feel like a EPR program for tires would help to remove the cost burden from the end of life. It would also get the force of the industry behind developing further tire markets for scrap tires. If the manufacturers are put in a position of managing them, then they will help develop markets for the management of used tires. So that is the that's what I have, in terms of prepared statements, but happy to answer questions.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Are there any questions from the members to the presenter? Representative Satcowitz. Yeah. Thank you

[Rep. Larry Satcowitz (Ranking Member)]: for your testimony. Do do we have any good sense of how many tires don't don't make it their way into being disposed of properly one way or the other on an annual basis. Do you have any sense of what that number might be?

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: Not from other entities, but like I said, our district, at least from our member towns that have used our program to help collect roadside dumping tires, we collect between six and eight hundred tires a year that are illegally dumped, and that's in Franklin and Grand Isle Counties. I know there are some towns that they receive scrap tires on roadside and just deal with them themselves. They might be bringing the farms. They might be directly bringing them to a regional tire manager like K and S, but they're not bringing them to us. So there are more annually that are dumped roadside than we're getting, but our numbers indicate between six and eight hundred, for our part of the state.

[Rep. Larry Satcowitz (Ranking Member)]: Thank you.

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: Any other questions?

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Yep. Senator Austin.

[Rep. Sarah "Sarita" Austin (Clerk)]: Do you notice any difference in quantity between snow tires and all season tires? Or can you look at that at all?

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: Yeah. I don't have any data on that. And I'm just thinking anecdotally, I think the time of year like, snow tires are prevalent in my mind because people just got snow tires put on, but I don't have data on which tire we see more frequently.

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: Thank you.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: John, are you aware of any tire slicing machines being used by farmers in your area so that they cannot hold water?

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: I am aware. I don't have the details, but I have I know that well, the agency of Trent of Natural Resources and the waste prevention division have informed districts that there is a tire slicing unit that's in use in the state. I think they're getting pretty good participation from farmers. We haven't seen, many tires at all or any that I can recall, at end of life that are coming from farmers that have been processed using, you know, this machine. But I have heard that it is in use in the region. Some certainly, some of the larger farms, I've noticed the tires having, been sort of, you know, prepared with that machine. They're not tires on the bunker. So

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Representative. Thank you, chair. And and thanks, John, for your testimony. Just a quick question. Where where is EDS? Are they in Vermont?

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: No. They're located in Fairfield, Maine. It's quite a distance. And that transportation, I think, adds to some of the cost, that we see for sure.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Are there any other questions for John? Seeing none, thank you very much for your presentation, John.

[John Letty (Northwest Vermont Solid Waste Management District)]: Okay. Thank you very much.

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: Our next witness, he knows that we're running five minutes time, so he's prepared for 10:15 if you want to invite. Know. We can see it.

[Rep. Larry Satcowitz (Ranking Member)]: Are there additional questions on that? I did

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: have one additional question for tire manufacturing. Okay.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: That would be Sean Moore. Yeah.

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: So we can just come here if you don't mind.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: I Yeah.

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: Just you you're welcome to see here if you don't mind introducing yourself.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: Sure. Again,

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: my name is Sean Moore, and I'm here today on behalf of the U. Tire Manufacturers Association.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Thank you, Sean, for being willing to take a hot seat again. Appreciate it. Mhmm. One more question. It seemed to me that the Tire Manufacturers Association, if you're a representative of here, already clearly a representative of the manufacturers. Could we as the state work with you as the association, you personally, but the Tire Management Association to aid in the cleanup of tire piles and contract kind with for studies of asphalt? I mean, if your organization's capable of doing that kind of work that we could contract with?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: It's not typical of something that we've done in the past. Doesn't mean you couldn't. Doesn't mean you couldn't. Anything is possible.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Yeah. Alright. That that was my question.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: Thank you. Yeah.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Actually,

[Rep. Larry Satcowitz (Ranking Member)]: while we have members of the cyclists. As well. You mentioned the Tire Recycling Institute. And do you have a sense of what their budget is and how much that is funded by the tire manufacturers?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Off the top of my

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: head, I I

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: no. I might be able to provide that. I mean, it's a five zero one c three, so they would have a nine ninety, so I could

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: look at that as well.

[Rep. Larry Satcowitz (Ranking Member)]: Be great to know how much resources that the industry is actually putting into the making this you know, promoting those efforts.

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Sure. So the USTMA, my organization, manufacturers worked with primarily the Tire Industry Association, which represents the retail side of the business, and distributors to stand that foundation up, and we worked closely with bringing in, like, Discount Tire and Liberty Tire and a few others to to help stand that that foundation up. But I don't know the budget off the top of my head.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Is that thank you.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: Thank you. Yeah.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: We'll be pushing

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: He's in the cafeteria. We'll get him.

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Yeah. I'll have him do that a little bit 10:15.

[Rep. Larry Satcowitz (Ranking Member)]: Well, I'll do would you like to have him come in now, or do or should we

[Rep. Larry Labor (Vice Chair, acting Chair)]: Who needs a bio break?

[Sean Moore (US Tire Manufacturers Association)]: Take a quick break. Take

[Committee Staff/AV Technician]: a quick break. Go offline, please. Yep. We'll we'll take a five minute break.