Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: We are going to shift gears back to H-six 32, the Miscellaneous DEC Bill, and welcome Deirdre Rutzer. Welcome.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Thank you. Good afternoon. I am Deirdre Rutzer. I am the Mobile Sources Section Chief in the Air Quality and Climate Division at the Department of Environmental Conservation. And thanks for inviting me to speak today about the proposed amendments to the income eligibility of the Automotive Emissions Repair Assistance Program. And I may refer to that as ARAP because it is quite a mouthful, but I try not to talk in acronyms.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: And what does ARAP stand for?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: It's the Automotive Emissions Repair Assistance Program.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: So there's an e in there.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Yes. It's about emissions repair. E.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Madam Chair, it's helpful, what's on her testimony.

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: Thank you.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Yes, and I try to keep it on all of the slides, too.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: I'm not the only one he picks up.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Oh, no.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: We're all we're all over.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Mike sarcasm, opportunity. Fair

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: enough. Alright.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: So the legislation passed in 2021 included the creation of a motor vehicle emissions repair program. And the authorizing legislation specifically aimed to provide financial assistance to low income Vermonters with vehicles in need of emissions related repairs associated with failing the annual motor vehicle inspection. Importantly, the program provides relief to low income Vermonters while protecting the air quality of all Vermonters. And the program was launched in August. I'm on the wrong slide. That's not helpful. This is the slide I'm supposed to be on. Apologies. But the program was launched in August 2024. Following the first year of program implementation, we determined the need to revisit some of the applicant eligibility criteria. The current eligibility criteria are shown on this slide, And the first bullet in bold is the focus of the proposed changes. Currently, the income eligibility for the emissions repair assistance program is the same as the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program or LIHEAP, which requires the applicant's gross household income to be at or below 185% of the federal poverty level? Do you know what

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Representative Austin. Alright, everyone, we're gonna do a reset.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: It it is based it's based on your household size. So for, like, a one person household

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Kate would know this.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: I moved

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: to have information.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: 21,150 for two people, 26,000. Sorry, we're talking about federal poverty level.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Yes, 21,015 people.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: What?

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: That is incredibly low. Is that what you're saying?

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Is that what you're saying? Well, that's what people says.

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: Anyway. I

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: think it is adjusted each year, and it depends on your household size.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: You can keep going.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Okay. And I can send I do have I just don't know if I it was just thought it was showing on my screen.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Yeah, I can find out. Okay. So

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: we're proposing revising the method used to determine the income eligibility for the emissions repair assistance program to improve the verification of income eligibility. So we propose using the adjusted gross income, considering the number of dependents claimed, as opposed to using the gross household income. While an applicant's gross household income is effective for LIHEAP, using gross household income for the repair program presents several issues with auditing the program and income verification. We just don't collect the same level of personal sensitive information that LIHEAP does essentially. And I'll go into a lot more detail now. So bear with me. The gross household income depends on household size. So currently the emissions repair applicants self attest to their household size during the application process. And the program has really no way to verify the reported household size without collecting additional sensitive personal information. Also, to verify household income, consent from every household member, to release their tax information would be required. And the only tax forms that could provide gross household income are the homestead declaration claim, credit claim form, and the renter credit claim form. And the applicants for this program may not file forms depending on their living situation. If an applicant does file either one of those forms, the income data collected doesn't account for potential exclusions allowed under LIHEAP when determining gross household income. And these allowable deductions include the cost of childcare, court ordered child support, some shelter expenses, some medical expenses, etcetera. So as a result, using these forms to assist the program with auditing and income verification wouldn't really be accurate. Additionally, gross household income is more applicable to LIHEAP support, which directly benefits households by helping with energy needs for the home, while the emissions repair support directly benefits individual vehicle owners and should not necessarily depend on housing status or household size. But please note that we're not talking about eliminating household size considerations. We are proposing using the number of claim dependents listed on an individual income tax return form as a proxy to household size, which is done in other similar repair assistance programs in other states. Just as an Oh, did you have a question?

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: I actually have Representative Chapin does have a question.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Yes. Just to clarify what you're saying right now. Household two people are just sharing bills and aren't family or in a relationship. Does household literally mean people who are sharing an apartment or a house?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: I am not a 100% sure.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Well, my main question though was really about ownership. You've got eligibility here, but it doesn't show that the vehicle has to be owned by the person who's it makes a lot of sense to me why you want to move from household related to LIHEAP, which is a federal program that's related to heating that home makes a lot of sense. Now you're talking about what would make sense for a car. Does the person with that income eligibility have to be the owner of the car? Yes. And owner of the car? Yes. So then also you could have two different people who are going to be sharing a homeowner's apartment or whatever kind of space, any kind of household, and each have their own car and each have their own income, and they can each be eligible for dealing with their own car because it's their car and their income. Okay, thank you. Just clarifying that. Exactly.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: And just as an example, there have been multiple transportation focused incentive programs like Replace Your Ride, Mileage Smart, and the electric vehicle purchase incentive programs that were previously administered by VTrans that utilized adjusted gross income as their income criterion. AGI is more easily interpretable by applicants as it's reported right on their federal and state income tax return forms. So this change would allow for income verification and a simplification of the auditing process working with the Vermont Department of Taxes. So I realized I've said a lot there. So just to sum up, changing the criterion from household income to adjusted gross income on the applicant's most recent income tax form, considering the number of dependents claimed, would make the income criteria criterion more applicable. It would allow for efficient auditing, and it generally remains comparable to the LIHEAP income eligibility. That was a lot. And this was my last slide. So looking at the second proposed change, the current program offers up to $2,500 for emissions repairs for applicants that have an income at or below 185% of the federal poverty level. So the proposed amendments include a sliding scale of voucher amounts that expands eligibility for lower and middle income Vermonters while preserving the highest voucher amounts for those with the greatest need. The proposed changes also align the program more closely with comparable programs administered in other states. And that's all I have for you today. Thank you.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Thank you for your testimony. On

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: your last slide, proposed sliding scale, is that in this bill, called out in this bill, or is that

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Yes, I believe it is in the tracked changes.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: What

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: section?

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Section is it in? 24. Page are you?

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: 23. 33, thanks.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Just happened to turn the light to it.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Yes, they are. Very end, which is good. Okay. How many people take advantage of this, and how do you find them, and how is the program working overall?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: I'll stop sharing my screen for the moment. I'm gonna second pull up those numbers.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: There's a little time delay.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: So Okay. It may or may not be working, but there

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: No worries. So well, we have had 114 inquiries into the program. And there is a bit of a prescreening process because we don't want everybody to go through the entire application process, which there's some pretty intricate steps. So we do pre screening first. And after rescreening, we had 114 inquiries, 101 applicants were prescreened. Out of that 100, 24 applications were received that were complete applications, and we have issued three vouchers.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: And the program started when?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: August 2024. Oh, okay. So we've also helped additional few applicants that weren't eligible, but did have emissions warranty coverage that were being inappropriately denied warranty either from the dealer or the manufacturer. So we worked with them to get them through that process, and those vehicles were repaired as well.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: How much money do you have for this? And your side is not if you're

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: trying to

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: put it up. Oh, no. I'm sorry. That's all right. Our total budget at the beginning was $975,000

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Where did that do you know where that

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: came? So $2.03 75 came from the transportation budget. And I believe $600,000 came from the general.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: And do you know how outreach is done?

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: What do you

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: mean? How would anyone out there who would be eligible know about the program? Oh.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: So we have conducted a ton of outreach. So we have met with and shared information with basically all entities that field low income questions inquiries. So we're listed with two eleven, The relevant municipalities, the community action agencies are aware of the program. We also work collaboratively with the Department of Children and Families. They have their Reach Up program where they have some funding that can go toward vehicle repairs as well. So we work together to relay applicants that might be more eligible amongst the two different programs. And we have information up on our website, DMV's website, and the Parsons, which is the emissions, the inspection contractor who works for DMV on their website. And we also do social media posts.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: You're right. You do a ton.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Yes. I have a

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: question of what is a relevant municipality?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Oh, so we have a couple of repair shops contracted to participate in the program. So they are located in Shelburne and Bennington. So those towns are aware and have information up, at least on the Bennington website, about the availability of the program.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Representative Chapin and Pritchard. So, it sounds like you haven't let everyone who does inspections

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: know? Everybody that does inspections is aware of the program.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: They're not able to do the repairs if somebody qualifies?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Correct. We've contracted with certain Well, we did a request for proposals to the entire repair community to see who wanted to contract with the state to participate in the program. And we ended up with two contracts. And it has started out as a pilot program just because we didn't have staff to go along with the funding. And it's the beginning of the program. We want to make sure we do it right and we can make tweaks as we go and adjust, make an informed decision when and if we can go statewide. But so far, the applicants, the inquiries that we've gotten, I think it was maybe only 2% had an issue with traveling to the repair facilities. So traveling hasn't been a problem or a limitation that we've seen so far.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Your intention would be to I didn't realize this was a pilot. So your intention would be to get on the road statewide, that there would be repair shops all across the state that people would have access to? Yes, we would definitely do more of a geographic dispersion. Representative Pritchard. There was a program in place to repair these vehicles, and it didn't matter if it was

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: an emission failure or not. When I was in the car business at a dealership, I used to help out a lot of these folks, but I would get a call from the state. Is this the same, is this just, I mean, is that program still in place? Is this a different program that I'm thinking of?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: It might be a different program you were thinking of. I'm not aware of that. I know that there is through the DCF program with Reach Up, they work with Good News Garage. And I think DCF provides funding to the families that they're helping out to get their cars repaired. And I think that can happen at any repair facility, and it can be for safety or emissions.

[Rep. Christopher "Chris" Pritchard (Member)]: Okay, so these are totally separate. Yes. And just, I throw it out there, I don't know how you get around, you know, emission repairs are extremely expensive, mean, extremely expensive. And what would be a great help and and probably double the amount of good you can do for people if there was a way to use auto salvage parts to make these repairs. And it's unfortunate that we're not allowed to use used oxygen sensors, use catalytic converters, you know, use map sensors, whatever. I mean, the savings that the help that you could give people on this, if that was part of the deal. Because normally, these cars are older cars, at least what I you know, with my dealings are you know, this car may be eight or nine years old. And the older a car gets on emission components, the more expensive those components get. So it

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: just kinda compounds the problem. So Do you know I'm going to

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: ask one just because otherwise I might not remember it. The VTrans money that goes to this program, was

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: it part of an air quality requirement?

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Do you know why B TRANS would have contributed?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: It wasn't part of an air quality requirement. It was back in '21, so I'm not entirely sure.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Representative Morris.

[Rep. Kristi Morris (Member)]: Thank you, madam chair. This is a money question. Many applicants have been successful receiving these grants? Three. Budgeted 900 for $75,000 They didn't divide it up.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: $300,000 The

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: maximum is 2,500 for a repair.

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: That's good news.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Yeah. For the repair vouchers and and let me be clear. Two have gone through the entire process and have been paid out. The third has been awarded and she just got her car repaired today, so we haven't paid it out. So it, I believe, adds up to maybe 4,000 or $5,000 for the three. And then we've used administrative money for administering the program as well.

[Rep. Kristi Morris (Member)]: And the value of that?

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Is it

[Rep. Kristi Morris (Member)]: number of full time employees or number of

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Well, we have one employee administering the program, and we've used about $37,000 in startup costs. So that was involving the request for applications to get the contractors on board. And then we've used about $50,000 in administrative.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Representative Chittenden, do

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: you have that? How does the reimbursement work? Does this is the shop that does the repair the one that sends the invoice to your department? Yeah.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: And then we pay them directly.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: So we don't often get to talk to folks from Air Quality Division.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: It's my first time being

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: here.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Great. Great have you. Can you just tell us a little bit more about what you do?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Oh, sure. So I work in the mobile sources section. So that is mobile sources of air pollution, primarily transportation. So we do a number of strategies to control emissions from motor vehicles. Those include adopting and implementing the California Motor Vehicle Emission Standards. And so those include low emission vehicle standards. So that's for gasoline and diesel cars. And then there's the zero emission vehicle component. And we also partner with the Department of Motor Vehicles and work on the inspection program. We oversee the emissions inspection piece of it. We also have a program where we provide technician training for Vermont technicians on how to properly diagnose and repair emissions related problems. And we also have another program where we reduce diesel emissions. So we have a lot of grant funding that goes out the door to replace older, more heavily polluting heavy duty diesel trucks. There's also non road equipment is eligible. Replacing those with either cleaner diesel with state of the art emission controls, or there's often electric options as well. So we also implement the state as a beneficiary to the Volkswagen Environmental Mitigation Trust. So we also implement that grant funding that is just for electrification projects, and that's for heavy duty vehicles.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: And how is that going?

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Wasn't it focused on school buses?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Part of it was school buses and the other part is trucks. And it's been going well. I think 2027 is the ten year anniversary. Yes. And we just recently had an RF request for applications. And we awarded a grantee for, I think this one was an electric delivery truck, I think a refrigeration delivery truck.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: The school buses been successful?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Yes and no. I think they've been a good place to learn for sure. There were four electric school buses funded with Highland Electric partnered with South Burlington. Those have been very successful. There were a couple of buses funded for Franklin West Supervisory Union, and those buses had some issues. And they're under warranty, so they're back and forth with getting repairs, but those have been less successful. There was another two electric school buses funded for Champlain Valley Union. Those were also fairly successful. I think one bus was more successful than the other. And then there were a couple that we funded for that went to Student Transportation of America, and those were in the Berry School District. And unfortunately, those buses have been parked because they were the manufacturer was an electric only manufacturer and they went bankrupt, and they're not being supported. And so yeah.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Yeah. That's quite the spectrum of success learning. Yes. I've been paying for it.

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: Mhmm. To have Libya.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Those two buses from Barrie, how much of a hole did it put in your budget?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: So that was Volkswagen money. That was the settlement funding that the state got from Volkswagen due to their diesel scandal. That could only be used on these types of projects. So I think they were between $304,100,000 dollars apiece.

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: So

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: that's money just parked somewhere. Interesting. Representative North. Yes, thank you, Chair. Thank you, Peter, for your presentation.

[Rep. Rob North (Member)]: I'm going to continue on with my notes, question and financial lines. So a total of $5,000 has been vouchered to Vermonters for this. Out of the $975,000 that was budgeted, that's half a percent of the money actually made it back to Vermonters. Is the 675,375, the pay tuition 600, the general fund, was that one time money or is that ongoing? One time. That was one time money, like ARPA funding? I'm not. Not quite sure. So it was one time in the 2022 or 2023.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: So the $375,000 the initial part of money came from state fiscal year 2022. And then the $600,000 bump was, I think, 2024.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: And how much of that $9.75 we have left? How long we expect that to last?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: I don't know how long we expect it to last. We have about $878,000 remaining.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Great, 78,000 remaining.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: $878,000 remaining.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: And realize you've only It's a, what you call it, a startup program, a pilot program. Thank you. So are those three vouchers that were given relatively recent? It's just kind of catching up, now are we going to see more frequent vouchers?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: So the last voucher were currently in process. So in the last month. The other ones I think were in, well, I was gonna say in 2025, which was just a month ago. So I think they were earlier.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: So we're not seeing a big upward trend?

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: No. But I will say that we are working with the Department of Motor Vehicles on some flexibilities that exist in the emission or the inspection program. And I think once we work through some of those things, we expect to see more people funneled into this program for assistance.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: So it seems like the Vermonter that's making out the best is the one FTE who's got their job out of it.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Well, I will say we didn't hire anybody to implement this program. It was somebody who had 100% of other job duties. And we have decided to say, hey, a quarter of your job duty now is to implement this.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: So you want a quarter?

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: So we have we actually have to move on. We have another witness, and this was really great. Thank you very much.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: But Thank you.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: I want to make sure we have time for the next witness. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: Make sure I'm disconnecting that every day.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: You can do that.

[Unidentified Committee Member (brief interjections)]: That goes here. Thank

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: you.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Please join us.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Separate it all the way down, but maybe.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Whenever you're ready.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Thank you. I think that Kat had gotten PDFs out. And so I'm going to just connect through Tout. And for the record, my name is Rebecca Pfeiffer. I work with the Agency of Natural Resources in our Rivers program, and I manage our river porter and floodplain protection program. And I almost never use Zoom stuff. If it's just give me one second.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Okay.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: I'm just going to go to my PDFs. The slideshow was up. Oh, was it the slideshow, or did you see my notes and everything?

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Oh, I didn't I didn't see.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: It's a slide? Yeah. If you go to

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: the slideshow, there's a presenter. Can see your

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: notes.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Well, that's what I was trying to go to, and I assume that you all saw my saw my whole I know I was going to, but it wasn't

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Yeah. We can, but they're very small. We can't read them.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Yeah. Let me do a peek

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: I wanna run out of time.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Okay. There we go. Okay, thank you.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: That little thing needs to go away.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Okay. I had submitted PDFs, so if you want to follow on or reference anything. As Chair Sheldon said, well, on the agenda, I'm Rebecca Fiber. I'm the river porter and floodplain protection program manager at the in the Rivers program. I don't typically begin testimony with written out statements, but I am going to read a short statement and the rest of the time I'll probably just speak more plainly.

[Deirdre Rutzer, Mobile Sources Section Chief, Air Quality & Climate Division (VT DEC)]: But I felt like

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: it was important to provide an insight and perspective from our position in the Rivers program. I've come today to talk to you about H632, about the miscellaneous updates around the Flood Safety Act. Most of them are involved around changes to our timelines. Some background on me, I've worked in the Rivers program, specifically in the floodplain management program, since 2006. So for the past twenty years, I've worked and stayed in this program because of my belief in the work that we do, advancing the awareness and the advocacy for the protection of public safety in floodplains and river corridors and the protection of these essential riparian areas of state. There are essential areas that protect us from the current and anticipated increased impacts of flooding from climate change. For the past three decades, the Rivers program has operated on the belief that river corridor and floodplain protection is best done working with our partners, communities, and individual Vermonters. That every interaction with, the member of the public is an opportunity for education and to listen. And to this end, we have always centered our program on the belief that the best permit is the one that isn't issued because impacts are avoided, and how to make sure that unavoidable impacts in river corridors and floodplains will not make flooding worse for the people and infrastructure already located in these key resource areas. We see that the buy in and deeper societal understanding of the why we do this in addition to the how we do this is an essential part for the success of protection of these essential riparian areas. Over the past twenty years, myself and many of our senior Rivers program staff have attended hundreds of municipal and public meetings and other partners to advocate for the outcomes created in the Flood Safety Act. Over those many years, we have also seen, met, and worked with many of the Vermonters who often get left behind when they experience flooding or flood damage to homes or businesses in flood hazard areas and river quarters. Through anecdotal experiences and then in further research studies in Vermont, we disproportionately see Vermonters who have the least ability to recover from flooding, living in flood hazard areas, and in river corridors, and they often have the fewest options for recovery and relocation after flood events. It doesn't matter whether the flood event is one that is covered by national news outlets, like in 2023, or Irene, or if it's a federally declared disaster, or if the flood is only one that impacts a small area of one town. It's often a life changing experience for that resident or business. As I believe commissioner, came in spoke earlier this morning, the new statewide regulations would apply to those already located in river quarters and floodplains, not just apply to new construction. The scale of regulatory expansion is vast. It's over 5,600 miles of mapped river corridors, and it would, amount to over 200,000 acres of new lands under regulation and over 45,000 individual parcels being covered by this expanded statewide regulation. This forced the scale of the 2014 Shoreline Protection Act or the recently implemented three acre storm water rule, which I think you heard about earlier this morning.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: Okay.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: So I just wanted to provide that picture I'm on the right slide. I just wanted to provide a little bit of background on the work that we have done for Act 121 to this date. So part of what we're coming here to talk to you about is changes to our timelines, but we thought we also wanted to talk about what we've done as a program. So a lot of what has brought about, I think, lot of interest in the Flood Safety Act was a lot of the flooding in 2023. So the July 10 and August flooding of 2023. We then had flooding in December 23. That was another federal declaration. And we had three additional, flood declarations in 2024. And then last summer, we had one in The Kingdom that should have also probably been a declaration but was not. And so our program is, one of the entities of the agency that responds during these flood events. So I have here just our state program roles in the floodplain management program. And one of the key pieces that we do is provide post flood municipal support. So we're helping communities reviewing project, properties that have been flood damaged, helping to do post flood permitting, helping to make sure that they're meeting their obligations for the National Flood Insurance Program to also do, damage assessments to determine what the course of action is for different structures and businesses and floodplains. This is some of our base work. And also, we're still the recovery of the twenty twenty three floods is still there. We're still having meetings about FEMA reimbursements and trying to maximize the state's ability to get reimbursements under the 2023 flood events. So despite that, though, we've been doing a lot of the work of Act 121 under the Flood Safety Act. I think the key piece is that we've really looked at some of the different implementation sequences, hiring and training staff, working on the state municipal minimum standards, rulemaking, National Flood Insurance Program Study Committee, the River Corridor infill mapping education and outreach. And I'll talk about each of these as we go through. So one of the key pieces, one of the things that, we testified to in 2024 when we were looking at the program, or the legislation and the potential for that, work to come to the program, is that the legislature granted us, Kristi, thank you. Five new positions, which is nothing to see that. That's a pretty substantial investment in a program. And at the time, we talked about the time that it typically takes that we see to create positions, to advertise positions, to interview people, to get them on board and moved in state or kind of leaving their old positions, and then actually doing the training to bring them up to speed to provide capacity for our senior staff. So at this point, we have four of our Flood Safety Act positions hired and on board. You'll see those folks hired and highlighted in red. We have also had two other vacant positions, one that we filled. Right now, the fifth position and another vacant position is being recruited and hired. That's our river scientist, two river scientist positions that are currently right now in the middle of recruitment and interviews and stuff. So that is something the time to do that, it always seems like it's going to go a lot quicker than it does, And time goes through that. And the biggest investment in that is the substantial amount of time to bring people up to speed in what they're doing so that you can start to hand work off to other folks so that we can pick stuff up. And that's just now happening. So some of the first folks that we hired was in the spring of last year. And so they're just about to come up to their one year hiring anniversary. And so we're seeing that capacity starting to be created within the program where I don't have to go I don't have to go on-site visits down to Windsor anymore because we have a regional floodplain manager now in Springfield. And other folks in my team don't have to come from Rutland to cover Brattleboro, because we've been covering positions. So we're seeing that capacity being created in our program. Before you move off of the slide,

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: I thought I heard the deputy commissioner say this morning that 11 positions were funded.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: I think that it was in total for the entire agency. So my and I would always refer to, deputy commissioner or the secretary. But I think it was, one position went to wetlands. We had five positions, so that's six. And I think the other positions were for dam safety. They were conversions of limited service positions to full time positions, and they may have had additional new positions created. But I don't want to speak for certain on that because there are other programs.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Thank you. Sure.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: So a lot of the focus in the testimony that I think the committee has received earlier in the session so far has been on the new FARC rule, the new River Quarter rule. And I think part of what our perspective of this process is that that is kind of the end game. And so a lot of the front loading from our program's perspective of the work that we've been tasked with is actually doing some of the inundation work. So one of them is the flood hazard standards for towns in the National Flood Insurance Program. And the other piece of that is the study committee on the state's role in administering National Flood Insurance Program. So part of why those are kind of front loaded pieces of the legislation when we testified in 2024, right now, I know that there have been some discussion previously, like how does floodplain regulations work? It's town by town. Every town that is in the National Flood Insurance Program has to voluntarily join that program by adopting floodplain regulations and administering those regulations locally. Our program helps support for them to review those projects to make sure they meet their standards. But every single town has a different flood bible. And I kinda say, like, with the regional planning commissions have used to have their models before our program did that. So sometimes we'll have regions that have floodplain regulations that kind of rhyme, but every single town is different. We do have models, but towns aren't obligated to adopt those, and they often choose to kind of personalize them for what is appropriate for their town. Part of our discussion was the amount of additional technical work that can create, but then also trying to bring up the level of the protection of floodplain development to a greater level, which prompted the discussion for a minimum state floodplain standard. So if a town is participating in FEMA's National Flood Insurance Program, the idea is that we're trying to bring the the minimum regulation for those towns to a higher standard that's more in line with our model. So part of why we wanted to also do that at this time is because as you see behind me, we're getting new FEMA maps. These are the anticipated dates. They keep rolling back, which is why I have new boxes over all of those counties because every single county has been pushed back. These are done by FEMA, by FEMA contractors. A lot of them are being done by the USGS, but not all. But, basically, as those towns get new maps, as the counties get new maps, FEMA does the mapping by county. We work with those towns to and the RPCs to make sure that their flood bylaws meet FEMA's minimum standards to the very minimum. So we thought that this would be a good way to try to work in that realm to bring that minimum standard in. So then if we have a new minimum standard, they're updating their bylaws, let's align it with that timeframe. The other piece I mentioned is the state legislative committee or the legislative committee on the state's role in administering the NFIP. So, we have two seventy four communities in the state that participate in the NFIP. It's about 92%. The towns that are in red are the ones that are non participating communities. Some reasons could be they don't have FEMA maps. It could be that they're very small. They don't have development in their floodplains. It could be that they don't have zoning and don't want to have the capacity to administer floodplain laws. But I think there have been previous discussion in the committee about the work that that takes to do that. And I think I have it here you go. On the next slide, BAFTA produces their annual report and this is from 2025. So they look at the different communities in the state and they look at, who has zoning bylaws and then flood only zoning bylaws. So those are towns that don't have any zoning but do adopt floodplain regulations. So as you can imagine, if a town doesn't have zoning but has floodplain regulations, it's often a really big lift for them because they don't have the infrastructure to issue permits. It's usually someone who, you know, doesn't show up to a meeting who gets voted to be the floodplain administrator or that one person who's like, I need flood insurance or my neighbor needs it. I'm gonna make sure our town's in good standing. We have one town that's in, like, Central Windsor County. I'm not gonna specifically call it the town, it's their town clerk doing it. And she just she gets raped over the polls sometimes for it and she's like, this is really important for my town and I'm going to do it. She and there's stories of that all over the state, whether they're like, we need to do this, so we're going to do it. And I keep these numbers really handy for when I talk to FEMA and people at FEMA to talk about the scale of municipal regulation and zoning and floodplain and the challenge of floodplain regulations. 89.5 of Vermont communities have less than 5,000 people. About two thirds have less than 2,000 people. We have 11 communities that are larger than 10,000 people. And so when FEMA talks about small towns, a lot of times they're like, I know small towns. I was you know, I'm from the city of 50,000 people. And you're like, you that's not even like that doesn't even register. Our largest city is less than 50,000. And so it's just putting into scale. That was part of that legislative committee's task is to look at what the state role may be. The discussion in Senate on natural resources at the time have been like, the state can take over NFIP regulations really. That would be massive because I think there have been earlier discussion about, the definition of development. I think, Michael Grady had talked about The definition of development for FEMA is basically any human change to the landscape. So to regulate all of that at the state level would require a massive investment in staff. And while it is an option, I don't know if it's an option that was kind of palatable at the time. So that was the legislative committee is to come up with some discussion of how do we look at providing capacity to towns, and what the state's role might be in that. So these are kind of the two kind of front loaded pieces of the work that we're doing. Some of the other work that we've also begun doing is, looking at the river quarter map, the infill mapping. I think Lauren Oates from the Nature Conservancy had previously testified about the investment they had made in the infill mapping pilot program, which we are a participant in and several other partners. And that was, intended to help jumpstart that to figure out how does this work, how do we do it, and what are the barriers, the benefits of how we do some of this infill mapping. And I think that was very helpful. We right now have a master contract that's about ready to be advertised to actually hire consultants to do that work. We've also been doing a lot of back end work to try to review the base data that goes into our our map river corridors. So as we do infill mapping, we're making sure that we have the best quality data to then use for the infill mapping. So some of that is looking at valley walls and reverifying them using LiDAR. That's been a big thing. Our new, river corridor mapping coordinator, has been doing a lot of that work going through and reviewing valley walls across the state. So, the other big thing that I would do wanna spend oh, I missed the slide. So the infill, this is from that TNC funded infill mapping pilot program, just kind of showing you an example of how you might have this is in, in Johnson, where you might have a river corridor in a designated downtown in a village area. And where would infill development be able to bypass permitting or have an easier path for permitting versus where you'd still need to come in to talk to our shop. And then the last piece is the outreach and education part of it. So one of the, I think, the pieces that I that we have really focused on, especially having learned from the rollout of the Shoreline Protection Act, I think that was about a decade ago, is the need for notification and an understanding of people who would be affected by the new regulations. But one of the other pieces that I think is an added layer to that is also Act 154, which was Vermont's 2022 environmental justice law that really compelled the agency to look at the impacts, the positive and the negatives of new legislation on environmental justice focused populations. And I spoke at the beginning that, we've anecdotally, for decades, worked with people in floodplains and river corridors and have seen some of those impacts, people who have the least ability to afford to do the work they may need to do or who have the lease ability to recover after a flood. But then in other research that's been done by UVM that has looked at the proportion of incomes that live in people's incomes that live in river quarters and floodplains. And so one of the things that we've been doing is doing a lot of that outreach and education work. So we've partnered with the Nature Conservancy to do general outreach. They have, working with our new community outreach person, Tessa, have been doing 25 webinars. They have five more that are scheduled. But a lot of the work we had contracted with Chiru Rosadovichi Regional Commission to look at, to start doing some of that listening and looking at options for looking at options for what are the issues for concerning environmental justice populations. I think that means that you may need to go to the floor.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: I'll give a couple minutes.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Could always come back. The kind of person who's like, we can talk about this for hours.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: I'm sure you'll We're with the right group.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: So we've been doing that work. We had two reports provided by Two Rivers from their subcontractors that were delivered to us at the very 2025 that looked at at kind of Southeastern Vermont and Central Vermont to look at some of what are the bigger themes and issues that we've seen from people who have been affected by flooding. And so that is work that we wanna continue. We've been working with Carla Romundi's office and her work in ANR's, I'm going to get the name of the group wrong, ANR's office on civil rights and environmental justice. And they're about to embark on outreach for the environmental justice mapper. We're trying to see how we can contribute to that effort to combine our efforts to do outreach and and, again, like listening for themes and issues around the benefits, but also the negative parts of what this new legislation may bring. And we're not going to be able to address all the issues that are going to come out that are going to be seen. Because we have a lot of experience previously, but 'twenty three, 'twenty four, 'twenty five has really, I think, shone a big light on how these are much larger societal issues, but how do we make sure that we're not contributing in a detrimental way or maybe be able to bridge that gap and work collaboratively with, like, Vermont Emergency Management Agency of Human Services, ACCD, DFR, Division of Financial Regulation on some of these solutions.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: So Rebecca, actually, I'm really sorry. I think I feel like we didn't schedule enough time for you.

[Rep. Ela Chapin (Member)]: It's okay.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: But I'm wondering, there's one bill on the floor. I don't know if you'd be able to hang around.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Yeah, I have nothing else this afternoon. I'm like, if you got mean, you probably all

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: No, don't think so. I think this committee is really interested in this topic.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Okay. I'm happy to I

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: don't want you to rush through it.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Okay. I'm happy to say because I have just a handful more slides, but I figured that this is just an entree to a bigger conversation on the Flood Safety Act and our work. Okay. You're a

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: little over halfway in your menu.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: The last ones are kind of more points. Those are the main talking points.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: I So maybe I interrupted you at the wrong time,

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: but we do need to get to the topic where if you think you're about to wrap, I can I have

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: let's see? Because I have a lot of hidden slides at the end of my PowerPoint. More hidden slides. Just in case. It's like if the question comes up, I have a slide for that. I've got like 40 slides in here. One, two, three, four, five. Yeah. So I have just a handful. If it's one bill on the floor and you think that it's something that's like half an hour

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: Probably, I don't wanna say. If

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: others have more information than I do, please let me know. But it could be quick.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: So

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: we will invite you back. Do you work in Montpelier?

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: I don't. I'm in Essex Junction, but it's not can always I'm in Montpelier.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Join us by Zoom.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: It's not a big deal for me to come in. I think that Zoom is great, but I think sometimes that there's a benefit to being able to actually see people.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: We appreciate that very much.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: I'm really sorry that that we

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: I know. It's still the half hour. I'm like, I don't know.

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: I can talk forever. I need to

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair)]: Well, feel free feel free to stay. I think I might need more time. That's totally on the tape.

[Rebecca Pfeiffer, River Corridor & Floodplain Protection Program Manager, Rivers Program (VT ANR)]: Well, and part of it is you also accommodated part of my schedule at accommodating me at the end of the day. I had a, an appointment, which I could always reschedule, but doctor's appointment sometimes can be

[Unidentified/Multiple Members (composite)]: a life. Yes. We're safe.