Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: We're live.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alrighty. Welcome back everybody. That was a quick break. House Energy and Digital Infrastructure. We are going to spend the next couple hours before lunch taking testimony on s two thirteen, an act relating to the use of advanced metering infrastructure devices. I'm rep Kathleen James from Manchester.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Scott Campbell from Saint John Bury. Chris Morrow, Windham, Windsor, Bennington. Michael Southworth, Caledonia two. Christopher Howland, Rutland four.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Dara Torre, Washington two.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Graham Kleppner, Chittenden 13, Burlington.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Laura Sibilia, Windham two. Joining us, I'm Isabel Walker, interning for Senator Beck O'Hopkins. Super. All right. I believe our next witness is on Zoom. James, are you here?

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: I'm Can you hear me?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: We can hear you.

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Okay. For some reason, the video won't load. Thank you for letting me join via Zoom. I'm at home with a respiratory thing today, and I don't think you wanted me breathing on you in there. I'm sorry. I can't seem to get the video to show up.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That's alright.

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: So we testified in the senate. I'm sorry. I'm Jim Porter. I'm the director for public advocacy with the Department of Public Service. We were generally supportive of this bill, you know, and testified to that in the Senate and we're generally supportive today. Is there any particular piece of the bill that you are interested in hearing about from our perspective?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Committee members might have specific questions. I don't. I think what we're mostly are doing here is rounding the bases and making sure we hear from everybody who would be impacted by this bill if we voted out and to get any specific feedback you have on changes you would want to see in the language or problem areas that you think we should be addressing.

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Okay. I don't think we really see any problem areas with this bill. Back when the opt out of smart meters was originally passed some years ago, we were very supportive of that. We remain supportive of the opt out provisions, which are here both for the water and the electric companies. The one difference is that there would now be a charge associated with opting out of the electric utilities. We're fine with that at this juncture as well. It is our presumption that that would be essentially a tariff rate that would be reviewed by the department and approved by the Public Utility Commission. And so I think that control remains. So really there's nothing with the bill as written that we have any major concern with at all.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. Think, Rep Southworth, did you have a question?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: You testified in front of the Senate on this?

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Yes, sir.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Could you explain what the issue or problem is we're trying to solve with this? Because I'm kind of at a loss.

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: So I can tell you I mean, my understanding of it, the alleged counsel may can answer that better than I can. I think that there are the advanced meters are gonna be used for the water companies as well. And I think it started out with having the ability for customers to opt out of having that tight meter if they choose to, which we're supportive of that. And there and there was a cost recovery mechanism proposed. And then at some point, I think there was an effort made to to treat all customers equally as far as the the customer payment pace goes from the electric utilities. Does that answer? But beyond that, I I can't specifically tell you what problem this is trying to solve.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Do you know if there are a large amount of people that have maybe filed complaints with the department about opting out?

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: When the first phase of smart meters went in, the the wireless aspect, and this was, gosh, twelve, fourteen years ago, that, you know, people were nervous about the technology. There are people who do not like the radio frequency emissions. And I really think we thought in the legislature at the time thought that allowing these people to opt out is the best way to handle it. Frankly, I think considering the costs of everything today, this cost recovery component is probably a good thing to have.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Brett Gollin.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: I can understand that the power company has a source of power on the source side of the meter to power the radio frequency, but where does a water meter get its power to run its radio frequency to report consumption? That may not be your question. It may be a meter operator. Could be a battery that has to be replaced every five years or some period of time. That was and so there's two sections when we were reviewing this bill. One was added after the fact that the electric companies may now charge a fee for somebody who doesn't use automated automatic automated meter reading.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Whatever

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: the terminology is. Smart meter. It is. Oh, the smart meter. So initially, people opted out of the smart meter. There was no charge. But in this bill, this allows the electric utility to place a charge if it's approved by the Public Utilities Commission through a tariff.

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: That that that's my thought, and and our view is that it would be just simply recovering the cost to the utility of the opting out rather than making money off of someone opting out. And I cannot answer the question about the the water meters. I'm I'm less familiar with those.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Oh, just the first opportunity that I raised questions. Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. Well Oh, yeah. Go ahead.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Back to the electric utility being able to charge a fee for somebody who didn't like radio frequency. I'm afraid that somebody who's way out in the boonies is gonna pay a meter readers a manual meter readers time for a long time to get from the office out to the to their home deliver their home location.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: But I don't know if

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: we could put controls in on that.

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: The the all I can tell you regarding that is that the way this works is whether it's a terms and condition or a tariff, the utility will file it with the Public Utility Commission and the department. And then we have people internally who review it and sometimes, you know, we'll come back and say, no. We we think this is too much or that this should be changed. And and if need be, these can even be opened into investigations. So I can tell you from the regulator's perspective, I think these charges will be reviewed for for, you know, just in reasonableness, I think.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Alex, have we reached out to

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: the PUC, right? They're coming in?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: And or

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: if that was an oversight on my part, let's make

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: sure that we've invited the PUC Okay, do

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: we have any more questions for Mr. Porter? Alright. Feel better.

[Jim Porter (Director of Public Advocacy, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Thank you. Thank you all for having me. See you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yep. Thanks for joining us.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Bye bye. Okay. Well,

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: now we have time to kill. So our next witness is not in the room. Right?