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[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: All right. Welcome everybody to House Energy and Digital Infrastructure. It's Friday, March 20. And we are here to hear from the Appropriations Committee on action they've taken on a couple of our bills and then do a straw poll. So I'm rep Kathleen James from Manchester.
[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Scott Campbell from Saint George Bennington. Chris Morrow, Windham, Windsor Bennington. Michael Southworth, Caledonia two. Christopher Howland, Rutland four.
[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Dara Torre, Washington two.
[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Bram Kleppner, Chittenden 13, Burlington.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. And representative squirrel. I know house of probes took oh, sorry. In the room. Taking a second. Super. So approves took action yesterday on a couple of our bills. And believe it or not, that's a new experience for us. So Okay. So if you could please just fill us in a little bit on both of the amendments? I know you're not the floor reporter for the other bill, but they're I think they're both the exact same language.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: Well, they're the same concept anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I represent Trevor Sibilia for appropriations committee. One of the processes we go through, obviously, jails come to us because they have either money in the underlying bill. Sometimes they get to us and there's no money that just comes to us. Or there's an appropriation or multiple appropriations in the bill, So we have that opportunity to review that, look at that. When bills have money in them, our general process, if we're working on which we're working on the budget, is to look at that and make a decision whether we like the bill. We like the policy. We haven't made a decision about how we're spending the money in the budget. We might set the bill aside until this week, but we have to get it done. Or we make a decision that we modify what's in the bill, appropriation to buy something. Or we think, fine. We we think that's reasonable, and we have money available for budget to accomplish this. In the case of these two bills, even though the language is a little bit different, it accomplishes the same thing, which essentially we the committee determined that the money wasn't available in the budget construct that we have for these two bills for these two appropriations. And so what we do is we we generally what we do is we strip out the amendment strips out the appropriation, and then there's some verbiage related to that. In the case of one of these bills, I think there was rulemaking that would be connected to an appropriation, so that's just interested also. I can walk through these if you want, but that's the process I throw.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That'd be great. Okay?
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: So in 07/18, this was not mine, but this is the the residential contractor industry task force. I'm not sure what the dollars were involved with that, but the appropriations was in section 13, that's deleted. And then there's a new section 13, basically says the work required or asked off in the agency or organization is contingent upon the appropriation. So they don't have to do this work, having an appropriation. An agency or an organization or department could choose to do that, I'm saying, or when this goes up in the Senate, the Senate can make a different management of this. But the philosophy in our committee is that we agree with the policy, and we think it's good policy, we still want to advance it even though the funding may not be in the bill. That's why both of these got voted out because we thought the policy was spent. So that was seven eighteen. And then I'm sorry.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Go ahead, Robert. Seven eighteen. I noticed in the notice calendar, it said the vote was eight to three, but then I also noticed that that is is presenting the appropriations report. Yep. So I wondered if and and I the email from Nigel, he said the vote was nine and two. So do you do you I would have
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: to go back and Yeah. Okay. Because I didn't bring that particular paperwork. I have paperwork for my bill.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: That's fine. Oh, I was just asking.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: I remember correctly, I'm the clerk. If I remember correctly, it was 92, so you might want to square that box. Yeah. Okay. Is that what you got from Nigel who said 8?
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Nigel said 99 to 2.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: Exactly. Think it was 9 to 2. Yeah. Okay. Good. I'll I'll I'll One of the members that thought they voted one way actually voted the other
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: one. Okay.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: I'll check with John.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: That's fine. And on 07:40, this is the greenhouse gas. And essentially, it was this is the one that had rulemaking in that, so there's actually two instances of amendment. We wanted to say that the rulemaking is also contingent on having appropriation available. And then, course, the money's out of it and striking on section three, which is where the appropriations of positions were. That's.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. And so just to just to reiterate all the different paths I see. So bottom line is that even if the even if seven forty I'll I'll use that as an example because I'm the lead sponsor on that one. So even if seven forty passes the house, passes the senate, and gets signed by the gov, so even if the bill goes all the way, ANR will still not be required. They can do the work if they want to, but they are not required to do the work until such time as the funding is made available.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: That's correct. Okay. And the funding We started doing that because too often bills were one is being stripped out, but it wasn't clear.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Right.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: And they end up with unfunded mandates and the market's agencies.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Right. Saying, my god. We passed the bill. We didn't get the money. Okay. And the and so the paths for any of this funding when it becomes contingent could be the senate puts it in or
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: In Fuller Park.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: In Fuller Park or it has something happens next year in the BAA. Sure. Or at how does the whole waterfall thing work? Do you guys have a waterfall thing going this year?
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: Probably not.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. Because I've heard about
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: What's that in years your James referring to is that we did a consensus forecast twice in the year, which is January and July. January 1, we had to make some adjustments for that. K? We obviously know from month to month what's happening, but it's not an official forecast before we get to the July 1. And, of course, we're we've already voted our budget out and ready to go. So if we think there's money gonna be available over and above the forecast when we're getting the budget done, we'll create we don't use waterfall, but contingency list I'm sorry. Which which basically says if we think there's maybe a $100,000,000 that we might prioritize we'll prioritize a list of things not in the budget because we've got the construct of the January consensus forecast to work. You can't see that. And so if if in fact that money is over budget I mean, over over the consensus forecast, then you can start appropriating that money until it's exhausting.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. But that's not
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: But but we're not anticipating that this year.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: It has been the case in the last few years, but that's because we've had a lot of trouble money, and that's really tailing away. But Okay. So your your And the economics are very different.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you're anticipating not creating a contingency list?
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: I won't say no to that. I don't think we're anticipating doing that. Yeah. That doesn't mean they've signed up with. So
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: the only way that funding would be for a greater would be I guess, would be the joint fiscal committee would be able to do that.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: That's always an option. I doubt very much
[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: I'll
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: add this up on the. Doesn't mean Sorry.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Can you say the last thing again?
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: No. I doubt very much they would take it up on this particular case. Okay. So these are emergencies and things like that.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Right. So it would be a BAA situation. Yeah.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: Or something may happen on the sentence.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Well, mean, but right. Assuming as you said that bills go they go through and governor signs it, it's but they're still in the money, then they don't then it would have to be refurbished later, and the first opportunity would be the BIA.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: That's correct. I mean, you can also have a conversation with the agency. Yeah.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Right. Okay. Alright. Well, that does anybody have any additional questions for representative schools?
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: So if we vote against this, then we can be sending a message to appropriations that they shouldn't be putting money into it.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I don't think so. Essentially, I mean, know, representative, can correct me here, essentially, we're voting on the bill again, straw poll. Within the context of now there's no now we understand that the money is simply contingent. So, no, it's we're not I don't think we're really sending a message to a person.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Of course, you need go look at this cat. Yeah. Well, feel free. Yeah.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So You're gonna go ahead. Okay. So with that set up, I think we can just take a quick stronghold. Okay. So H718, the residential energy code as amended by appropes. All in favor of the bill? Okay, we got 123456. Somebody writing this down?
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: I am. Okay.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And 8740, greenhouse gas. K. 123456.
[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: You don't ask who it is?
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Well oh, wait. I did skip that, didn't I? I did. I was waiting for that. I'm really sorry. Alright. H70 718. Residential energy. All in favor. Straw poll. Get your hands high, folks. 123456. All against 621. K. Greenhouse gas, 740. 123456. All opposed. Two. Six two one.
[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: I was gonna say you said all six and then all opposed. So
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: All opposed. Alright.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: Mike's working this way. I know. Right. Find a way to make this land and stuff. Thank you very much.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alrighty. Representative Squirrel, back to your appropriations grotto.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: I saw your Your appropriations. Grotto. Good luck to everything.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Trevor. Alright. Quickly before we go off live, flight path, an agenda for next week. Data centers went to ways means. They voted it out.
[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: You 11. No. Ten zero.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: 1001.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Wow. So data centers with no changes.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: 727, right?
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. That's 727. So data centers will be on notice on Tuesday on the floor Wednesday, Thursday. Our miscellaneous PUC bill is off to the Senate, and then both the bills we just talked about are already on notice today. So they'll be on the floor Tuesday and Wednesday with me reporting greenhouse and Scott reporting
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: Energy Code.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Energy Code and Laura is data centers. And then, we've got our agenda. We're going to post it soon for next week. We are taking a bunch more testimony on two zero two. And then at that point, I'm feeling like we'll have we will have taken all the walk around testimony on two on on two zero two, and we'll see who else we need to hear from and then maybe try to do a a markup to see, like, where we're going with that. Yeah.
[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Have we thought about taking any, testimony from landlords? No. We should. We should do that. Landlord association.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: There is a landlord association.
[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (House Appropriations Committee)]: Uh-huh. Okay.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Mhmm. Yeah. There is a landlord association. Yeah.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Angela's there's or something like that.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Yep. Vermont Landlord Association?
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Apartment Owners Association.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Apartment Owners Association? Yep. I think half an hour. Probably reach out and see if she can come in. K. Then as 213 has made its way to our board, I have not carefully read the bill yet, but we just started with all the witnesses that the senate heard from, and we've invited them all and but we're starting with a walk through. So, O'Grady is going to walk us through that bill like right starting off Tuesday afternoon. So, we'll all understand the bill and know what it's about. Then I found out yesterday there's another senate bill coming your way. I'm not remembering the number right now. Also coming out of senate natural resources, and it is about something called C PACE. And it is a financing mechanism that helps commercial properties build energy projects.
[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Do energy efficiency.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Do energy efficiency projects. That is all I know, and that's coming here too. Exciting. Yeah. Glad that's coming here. Yeah. And that's that's it. So anybody yeah. Madam chair,
[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: I know I've mentioned this before. I'm hoping that we can consider the cybersecurity council adding legislative members when we think about two thirteen if it's to the bill.
[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. And I'm also interested in doing the quick walk through on the appliance standards bill. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See if there's a place we can add that. Mhmm. Alright. Thanks, everybody. We can go up live.