Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: You're live. All right. Welcome everybody to House Energy and Digital Infrastructure. It is Wednesday, March 17. I'm representative Kathleen James from Manchester.

[Rep. Richard Bailey]: Richard Bailey, 1 02. Chris Morrow, Windham, Windsor, Bennington. Michael Southworth, Caledonia two.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: Christopher

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Howland, 104. Dara Torre, Washington two.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: Bram Kleppner, Chittenden Thirteen, Burlington. Laura Sibilia,

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: one Number two.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. I just briefly wanted to let's put our heads together on our bills real quick. So data centers is in ways and means. And we think that's going be voted out tomorrow. So that would be voted Wednesday. Notice Thursday? Floor Friday, Tuesday?

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: If that's what happens, yes.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: If that's what happens, yes. Okay. So that's data centers. Then our miscellaneous EUC bill approves heard that this morning and is gonna vote it out today. So that is noticed tomorrow, floor Thursday, Friday. I'm the floor reporter on that one. H seven forty, the Green Town's gas, I already went and kind of discussed it with the probes. They're gonna vote it out Thursday or Friday. So that will definitely be Florida next week. And seven eighteen residential energy code is

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: It's not on the schedule yet for appropriations. Mhmm. Know exactly.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So that's probably also Thursday or Friday probes for next week. So we've got data centers this week, miscellaneous PUC this week, data centers, and residential energy code next week. Okay. Meanwhile, crossover happened. So we are taking up new bills. So we are here to walk through S202. That is the portable solar bill. And just to remind folks, I had a companion bill. I had an h bill that we've left in the dust, and we are taking up s two zero two. We've got a bunch of testimony scheduled this week. We'll take more testimony next week, Ellen's here to walk us through.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Ellen Tchaikowski, Office of Legislative Counsel. So I'm here today on S two zero two as passed by the Senate. Enacting to Portable Solar Energy Generation Devices. This so a little bit of context. 30 BSA section two forty eight is the Public Utility Commission's permitting process for electric generation facilities. So, if someone wants to construct an energy generation facility, they likely need a permit from the PUC. However, and or then when they go to connect to the grid after it's constructed, they would need a interconnection agreement with the local utility. This includes metering systems, which are the smaller systems. However, homes that are off the grid that may have facilities that are not connecting to the wires owned by the power companies, they don't need to go through that process. What you have in this bill is a of a hybrid system and what to do with these new types of technologies. So portable solar energy devices are smaller solar generation devices, and this bill is setting up that they will be exempt from the two forty eight process even though they probably wouldn't trigger it. They may or may not trigger it, but depending if they're This is being very clear, they will not trigger that process and they cannot be used in combination with the net metering process and they will not need an interconnection agreement from the utilities. It's gonna create some other regulation for them anyways because this is a different type of system.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: This is new

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: technology. Is slightly a gray area right now, how they are to be regulated.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So this exemption from the two forty eight, CPG process and the interconnection Agreement. Agreement? Yep. Because it's not clear right now.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. They likely well, depending on how they're configured, they might trigger either of those things currently or they might not. And so this is trying to be clear. The first section defines what these things are. It's adding to the definitions section in two zero one, which is the chapter where section two forty eight is. Portable solar energy generation device means a movable photovoltaic generation device that is designed to be connected to a building's electrical system via an electrical cord plugged into a receptacle. So that's the wall outlet.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: Thank you.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I had to learn what the receptacle is.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: You can plug into a flower vase if you want. Yes.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I I didn't know we needed to say receptacle, but everyone says we might as well just be very clear. They are plugged into a wall receptacle usually. Includes a feature that prevents the system from energizing the building's electrical grid during a power outage. What is that? Well, it may be a ground fault circuit interrupter.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: I'll let you know.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Oh, I forgot to give the preface that I am not an electrical engineer and that we're about to hit the limit

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: of

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: my

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: understanding of these terms. It may require a voltage from a source to provide both frequency and Depends on the units too. Pardon? No.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: There are different types of

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: We'll get into that.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Mechanisms that are safety features on appliances. This is requiring that, as you will see, because these things are going to be connected to a home and therefore also the electric grid, it should have this safety feature that when there's a power outage, it disconnects and interrupts so that it is not continuing to use power and could shock someone attempting to fix the system.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Doesn't back feed into

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Doesn't back feed into the grid when there's a power outage.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Which is important. Yes.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: And it's I mean, those safety features work for both power outages when workers expect all the lines to be dead. Yes. But, also, if you shut off the breaker to a particular room work on that electric even if it's not an outage, it's an intentional shutoff. Yeah. They work under that safety. The fail safe works under that as well.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. So it is requiring those to for these different devices, because there are different kinds of devices presented to have one of those safety features. And that is somewhat related to the next subdivision. It also needs to comply with UL 3,700, which is a regulation, for plug in photovoltaic systems by UL Solutions, or an equivalent certification by an equivalent nationally recognized testing laboratory for use in The United States. So if you look at any, if we looked at the coffee pot on there, probably on the court, it probably says approved by UL Solutions. They are the national laboratory that approves for safety electrical devices. UL 37 recently came out and that is specific to these plug in photovoltaic systems that we're using here.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: We're hearing from them tomorrow, actually. UL. This is

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: This safety thing that we got in our packet is actually quite good. People wanna read up on the UL stuff that's in that's in our packets.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. Oh, I see.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: It explains all that stuff.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. Yep. And Bridesaver's coming in at later to Debbie's. The was this all the Bridesaver testimony? I think it was.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: To Sierra. I don't know where she's been.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Britesaber submitted a bunch of written testimony, and I've I had asked Alex to sit today and asked to have it all printed out. So my guess is that this is all the Britesaber packet.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Great. And

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: then the last element of the definition on line 17, and is connected to a building that is connected to the electric grid. If you're not connecting to the electric grid, this won't lie to you. These devices can be used out in the wild, like camping or something. This definition is specific to, yes, or off grid, a building that is connected to the electric grid.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So section two is then creating a statute specific to this section 30 VSA section two fifty six, portable solar energy generation devices. A customer may install one or more portable solar energy generation device per electric meter if the devices have a maximum combined capacity of the PH2 of not more than 1,200 watts, portable solar energy generation devices shall only be connected to systems using smart meters.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Oh.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: You will hear testimony about this. So right now, under the UL Solutions 3700, they I believe they have only endorsed systems up to 391 watts. So you could potentially have up to four of those. And but most of the time when I'm in here, we're talking about kilowatts. So watts we're talking about 1.2 kilowatts, so significantly smaller than most of the systems we discuss in here. You can hear more about that. That's like a laptop or, you know, small other it could power smaller devices. And The reasoning related to the smart meters is because these systems are able to back feed into the grid. I'll talk more about this as we go. They have different configurations, but these devices are small sets of solar panels that may or may not have a battery on them, but are also connected to the home's electric grid, and so it could feed directly into any of your appliances, but if you're not using the energy, it also could back feed in to the grid. So, use of a smart meter is what they have recommended.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: So, it can back feed into the grid, that's the question.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: You will not be compensated for it. This is excluded from net metering. We will not be paid for that.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Yes.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. So, there's still more to this. So, on page two, line three, the installation of a portable solar energy generation device that complies with subsection A shall not be required to comply with the requirements of two forty eight, or be required to obtain an interconnection agreement with the electric distribution company. That is basically permission from the utility to install. Subsection C, an electric distribution company shall not require a customer using a portable solar energy generation device that complies with subsection A to obtain the company's approval before installing or using the device, pay any fee or charge related to the device, or install any additional controls or equipment beyond what's integrated into the device. A customer with a net metering system shall not also install a portable solar energy generation device. A portable solar energy generation device shall not be eligible for net metering. Excess generation fed back into the grid by a portable solar energy generation device shall not be compensated by an electric distribution company. So yes, these systems are designed and are capable to some some of them are to feed back into the grid. It is not a large amount of electricity, but it is possible that there will be some, and that is not eligible to be compensated as part of net metering or another agreement. And then subdivision e at the bottom of page two into three, a portable solar energy generation device in a public building as defined in '20 DSA 2730 shall be used in a manner that complies with all applicable requirements of the most recent fire and building safety code adopted by the Division of Fire Safety. An example is if you're using this in a public building, like an apartment building, you cannot block an ingress or egress, so you've got to make sure that they're not blocking the board. And then also, these often have an extension cord. You've to make sure that the cords are secure and not creating a fire hazard, safety hazard. So there are two other sections. So that those are the title 30 provisions.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Sorry. Can we go back and see that all the way? Now I'm on page two, line 14. Mhmm. I you said this, and I glossed over it in my mind. So if you have a net metering system, in other words, if I have rooftop solar that does net metering, I can't have one of these. Correct.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. If you wanna use it in your camper and not Right. You can.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Because it would screw up the accounting for my rooftop They would know what the little plug in is contributing. Correct. Yep.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. Okay. So then there are two other provisions related to this that are not part of Title 30. So on page three, first is amending 24 BSA 4,413 gs. So this is municipal bylaw statute and this is the limitations on municipal bylaws. So there's this existing provision in 4413 about energy collectors. So A bylaw adopted under this chapter shall not regulate the installation, operation, and maintenance of a portable solar energy generation device or a flat roof of an otherwise compliant structure of a solar energy device that heats water or space or generates electricity. There's this existing provision that municipal zoning can't regulate solar energy devices on flat roofs, and so we're extending that exemption also to portable solar devices. Further down, it goes on to say, They cannot prohibit or have the effect of prohibiting the installation of solar collectors not exempted from regulation, clotheslines, other energy devices based on renewable sources. There's already this existing provision that some renewable energy devices are exempt from so municipal bylaws. This is adding portable solar as well.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: I'm I'm I'm I'm puzzled why the flat roof, But that that that's existing. That's an existing statute. Yeah. Does anybody know anything about that?

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I think part of the theory is what is the municipality's business with on a flat roof? Why do why would they be allowed to regulate solar panels on a flat roof?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Or any other roof. I'm looking

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: at Well, this provision is at least specific there for a flat roof.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: I don't know if I get to something about this.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: Well, Bennington Well, perhaps you could ask him. I would think for one thing, for overlook, if you continue to add more gravel to a roof, you've got to pay attention to what the roof was originally. The structural. That was scrapbook. Right, right. Believe

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: me. Towns, this is saying towns can't

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: do anything about that. They can't, but my comment when you asked why they would. My question is the town can't prohibit it, but what about the subdivision? When it said closed lines, I once looked at the house and subdivision.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah, we're going to answer that next. Yeah.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: Okay. Alright. I'm sorry.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yep. So, yes, the next section is about de restrictions. So other type so other places.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Bennington, you know anything about fat roofs in in this No. By the court departments. For the record, Ben, I'd really well refer be for no. I was just looking at the provision of law to refresh my memory now. Okay. But We'll we'll we'll time to experiment next. Of course.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Well, so this section in 24 title 24 is somewhat related to the next section too because there was a push prop before my time to create protections for these we call them, like, I think, solar devices or solar collection devices. So, like, solar panels, but also clotheslines. So it was added to municipal zoning, and it also has this provision in title 27, which is the property title. So 27 BSA five forty four is also a stat an existing statute about solar collectors. So no deed restrictions, covenants, or similar binding agreements running with the land. This may include a subdivision. It may include a common interest community. It could be an HOA, although HOEs have separate statutes. But any binding agreement in a deed or similar document, none of those shall prohibit or have the effect of prohibiting solar collectors, clotheslines, or other energy devices based on renewable resources from being installed, or for a portable solar energy generation device as defined in 02/2001, a pertinent to buildings erected on the lots or partials covered by the deed restrictions, covenants, or binding agreements. I'll stop there for a second. There's this existing provision that says deed restrictions cannot have the effect of prohibiting solar panels installed on buildings. And this is adding, not only installed on a building, but also a pertinent to a building for portable solar energy generation devices. Pertinent to is a property law term, meaning near or adjacent to the building, in question. Portable solar can be placed on your deck. Okay. This, you got right to my question. Could be on the balcony. It could also be on your fence. And so it may not be directly attached to the building. You also can move them. So you maybe you're they're light enough that you wanna move them around your yard and or or something. You know? There so The current statute is specifically installed on the building, and this is allowing for because these are portable, they are maybe attached to that to the building, but it's something else. Interesting.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Alright. So there's one small other thing at the end of this on page four at the bottom. So, the legislative intent in enacting this section is to protect the public health, safety, welfare by encouraging the development and use of renewable resources in order to conserve and protect the value of land, buildings, and resources by preventing measures that will have the ultimate effect, whether or not intended, of driving the costs of owning and operating commercial or residential property beyond the capacity of private owners to maintain. This section shall not apply to patio railings and condominiums, cooperatives, or apartments, except for portable solar energy generation device. There's an exception in this existing provision that in condos, cooperatives, and apartments, they can regulate their patio railings. But again, portable solar may actually be hung on those, so they're exempted from that as well. So, the sections three and four dictate things that the municipality can't do, and then four is about private deed restrictions. This is not about landlords and apartment buildings specifically.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: Does that mean a landlord could book up a tenants from renting in portable solar if that landlord so chose? Yes.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: But not not a coa. Correct. So if you have an interest in the property on these. Yep.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: And effective date shall I live on track basis.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Sorry, so you can't have a deed restriction or like a covenant or an HOA thing on property that prohibits this. Yeah. But a landlord. Yes. So the key thing is whether you have a, you have a financial stake in the property.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I I wouldn't say that, but if you have a deed or, you know, like, an ownership, I don't know if it's financial, but

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: You have an ownership interest somehow. Yeah. So nothing to bill about about rentals Correct. At all? Correct.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So I will say, big picture, this is a little bit, or a lot different than a lot of the other energy bills that I work on, and it took me a while to sort of figure out why. It's because they these are sort of, like, appliances rather than energy generation facilities. They're more like an appliance. And so there's this is a different type of regulation than some of

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: the other things you have looked at before. Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Have something?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: So this would be more toward homeowners rather than renters, the ability to do this?

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Not necessarily. It it leaves open the possibility that landlords can not allow these things because landlords do have the ability currently to say, you can't, like, plug in Right.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I was

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: gonna say Hard. Hard willed.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. I was gonna say it. Not like a air hockey table, but, like, something bigger. Like a like a larger appliance. Landlords do have that authority now to deny their tenants that, but it also leaves open that if it is a building and the landlord hasn't made any prohibition, if a person would like to purchase and install one of these and connect it to their grid, will be found by this.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Repound?

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: I heard you say something about you can use it for your travel trailer, power your travel trailer.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So if you're not going to connect it to your house, you're not bound by the statute. And so you are, I think largely

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: not But covered by the same device, from your knowledge, could be used to power an independent self standing travel trailer.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Isn't that what I just said? I don't understand.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: You mean connected to the house and then they plug in the trailer?

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: You think these will actually provide energy to a travel trailer if plugged in independently to a travel trailer?

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I cannot speak to the specific ways that the technology could be used. I don't know specifically that. Get into that.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah, have coming in.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: My gosh, please don't ask me about AC versus DC and how things are good for,

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: wasn't gonna, I was

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I'm sure that there are people that can talk about in detail how some of this technology will work and how there are a lot of different configurations of the systems that already exist. I my knowledge has a limit on some of this.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So getting back to this the stat the statutory language here. Right now, if I went out and bought one of these and brought it to my home to hook up, it's not clear, it's a gray area, about whether maybe I could be required to get a CPG or maybe I could be required to get an interconnect agreement. And so the point of this bill is to clarify that those things will not be required for these units. Right?

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Actually, I would alter that a little bit. These portable solar systems come in a number of different configurations. Depending on the type of configuration you get, you may or may not trigger the need for one of those things. So, this is being very clear about these technologies. If you're gonna plug into your house and that building is connected to the grid, and it is a device that complies with UL, you don't need a CPG or an interconnection agreement. Most of these things, I think, probably wouldn't trigger the need for a CPG, but if you're connecting it to your house if you're plugging it in in your house and it's connected to the grid, you probably would need an interconnection agreement. Okay. And then that you may also need to amend your CPG if you have net metering. That's another part of the gray areas. Can you do this if you already have net metering? It seems like you may need to amend your net metering CPG if you do. So, yes, this is clarifying. What you don't have to do Yes. To get one of

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. And then I have one more question. This may be a question just for our Senate colleagues, but it may be something that you weighed in on as well, so I'll go ahead and ask. The bill that I introduced on the House side had a path for making sure that the electric distribution companies were notified. I know that's gone now.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: They don't want notification. They ask for it to

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: not be included. Interesting.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Because they think of them as appliances. So, you should hear from them. We will, yeah. Okay. Was their testimony is that it's like you having a new appliance. They don't need to know

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: that. Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Any more questions on the language of the bill as it came over from the senate for Ellen?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Feel like there's a lot to worry about this.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. There is.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: I do have a question. Yeah.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: Lines twelve and thirteen on page two. So if electric companies are requiring people who want to to afford their solar to install any additional controls or equipment beyond what is integrated into the device. There was some discussion earlier on this that they would require installation of a separate circuit in their home for these.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: This

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So that is under that is contemplated under UL 3,700. And so this provision on page two is specific to what the utilities kind of require. It may be required as part of the UL safety standards.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: And maybe that safety standard have been issued. Right?

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. As you should hear from someone other than me about it. Yeah. And I think if I'm remembering I'm sorry. I am dealing with 14 other bills right now. And so I'm I think it is I think there are different size categories under UL 3,700. And so I think that may be for larger ones.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: Okay.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: But I

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: We will talk to them.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Thank you. Yeah. Yep. It's not clear. We are let's see. And I I don't have it handy right now, but we have so far invited, and this is just for round one, but we invited every witness the Senate heard from. So whatever was their witness list went to Alex and Alex lined up all those folks. So that included UL, BriteSaver, which is a kind of, you know, advocacy awareness raising group. We're hearing from a manufacturer, a company that makes these. That's new. I don't think the Senate heard from them. We're hearing from the IBEW. That was new. The Senate didn't hear from them. We're hearing from, like, and some advocacy groups that are supporting this bill. We're hearing from DPS and the PUC.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: Fire safety.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Fire and safety, yep.

[Ellen Tchaikowski (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Can I just add, so some of the advocates that you will hear from on this are currently asked? There is some engagement with UL about potential amendments to 3700, so that is also happening in the background.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: Got it. Thank you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah, Doctor. Southworth?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: How recent were the testing and stuff with UL?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: It just came December. December. Because my first draft

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: did not have that. Okay. Thank you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. I think UL saw you know, they're seeing bills pop up around the country, and they saw the age bill and the s bill that we had introduced, and they wrote to us. And I think that's already posted as probably already posted on our page as testimony. And if not, they'll be submitting it tomorrow. But it said, hey. We're we're updating this standard, and you should include it by number. And that's why h five ninety eight, which is now outdated, went from just saying is certified by Underwriters Laboratories

[Rep. Bram Kleppner]: Mhmm.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: To saying complies with UL 3,700 and I think maybe even that's been updated. So we'll hear from them tomorrow. Yeah.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: If one has a number of questions that may already have been introduced to in the senate's testimony, should one review the senate's testimony?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: One should. Yep. Be all it would all be posted on the senate.

[Rep. Christopher Howland]: Right. And we don't have to repeat it here.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that. I think we need to do our own comprehensive exploration and take all of our own testimony, but anybody who wants to go back and look at all the testimony that was presented on the Senate side is should do so for sure. All right. Any more questions for Ellen? Ellen, thank you.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth]: You bet.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And I think we're gonna be joined by Bright Safety at three so we can take a little break and go off live.