Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: We're live. All right. Welcome everybody to House Energy and Digital Infrastructure. It is Friday, February 27, and we are here with ledge council to do a committee walk through discussion and vote on h seven forty draft number 2.3. I'm representative Kathleen James from Manchester.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Scott Campbell from Saint Johnsbury. Tomorrow, Windham Windsor Bennington. Michael Southworth, Caledonia two. Christopher Howland, Rutland four.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Dara Torre, Washington two. Lamoille Butler, Chittenden 13, Burlington.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. And joining us in

[Unidentified committee member or staff]: the room?

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Dean Ali Perry from the Crasson Group.

[Unidentified attendee (Treasurer’s Office representative)]: Paris Chung, also the state treasurer.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: And Julie Walsh from the group.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. Alright. So I'm gonna just give a a quick kind of recap and overview of where we've been. So just as a reminder, H740, I'm the OC Regional Bill sponsor. And introduced this bill and have been championing it because in my time in the legislature, if there's anything I've learned, it's that the best policies are based on great data. And right now, we don't have the greenhouse gas reporting data that we need to really build successful policy that helps kind of move Vermont toward the future in a way that helps everyday Vermonters, you know, rather than harms them. We've had a lot of talks about that in the legislature. So, seven forty is based on the recommendation of the 2025 Climate Action Plan, which was updated and introduced this summer. And getting this reporting structure in place was one of the top recommendations of the Climate Council. It was accompanied by a memo from the Agency of Natural Resources that called this work foundational to building good policy in the future. And it was also called foundational to our future work by treasurer P checks. So, basically I took the ideas that were presented in the climate plan, worked with the ledge council to turn it into a bill, high level, and then I'll let Ellen do the walk through. What we're trying to do here is, I guess, clearly establish and or reiterate the fact that the agency of natural resources has the authority to adopt rules that create this reporting program. It directs ANR to adopt these rules. In other words, it says, you shall go do this. And then, it lays out what kind of reporting we're looking for. So we're talking about fossil fuels for various sectors at the ZIP code, municipal, or other level. And then it provides ANR the funding to do that work. So and I know we'll have committee discussion in a minute and people can ask questions of of the council. But, Ellen, can you walk us through we've been trying to work I I've been trying to work very closely with ANR to make sure that the language reflects, you know, their request, which is make it clear that we have the authority to do this, tell us what you want in the rules, and give us money.

[Ellen (Legislative Counsel)]: The Office Ellen, of Legislative Council, H740. This is the committee amendment draft 2.3. The changes are highlighted in yellow. I don't believe you had a draft 1.1, so this would be as the bill as different from the bill is introduced. So, it's largely very similar to that version. So, section one is amending 10 b s a five eighty two, which is the greenhouse gas inventory and forecast and registry. And so this is this existing statute. The greenhouse gas inventory has been developed and published by agency natural resources for a number of years, and they already have existing rulemaking authority under that program, but this is adding very specific authority as part of that rulemaking authority. So at the bottom of page one, subsection e subdivision two, the secretary has authority to adopt rules that create a comprehensive greenhouse gas emissions reporting program that covers all sources of emissions, including fuel suppliers. Suppliers of transportation, on to page two, and heating fuels covered by the rules shall comply with requests from the secretary for information. The Secretary shall adopt a rule that, at a minimum, includes the types and volume of fossil fuels sold by sector for the transportation, residential, commercial, and industrial sectors, and by zip code, municipality, or the smallest geographic level practicable. I think this language, geographic level practicable appears in a couple other statutes, and it gives some flexibility as they develop this rule. They don't necessarily know at what level of granularity that data will be available yet. Section two, on page two, is the session law rulemaking provision, and this is for, On or before 07/01/2027, the Secretary of Natural Resources shall adopt final rules for greenhouse gas reporting as required in 10 BSA five eighty two e two. The prior version had the date by which they needed to submit to LCAR, and the secretary identified that just having the date by which they should adopt by would be more clear for them and easier to comply with. And then, the last section, section three, there was an appropriation in the prior version, but in addition to the funding, there's also two new positions being added. So, funding, in addition to other funds appropriated to the Agency of Natural Resources, the sum of $500,000 shall be appropriated from the general fund as a base appropriation, which will be used to draft the greenhouse gas emission reporting rules to develop a greenhouse gas emission source database, and to support staff and ongoing efforts required to implement emission source data collection. Subsection B is the positions. In fiscal year twenty twenty seven, the establishment of two new permanent class five environmental analyst five positions, and the agency of natural resources is authorized. The effective date is on passage.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I want to add one thing just so folks understand because I had to make sure I understood. In addition to other funds appropriated to the Agency of Natural Resources, the sum of $500,000 shall be appropriated as base. The reason that language is there is to make it clear that the Agency of Natural Resources already has in the FY '27 general fund its own much larger base appropriation. So, that's what that is referring to. It's not it's saying we know that ANR already has, you know, a base appropriation in the FY '27 budget. We would like to add to that base appropriation this extra $500,000. And then it says what it will be used for including the staff. Right. Yeah.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: We'll have another 300,000 to set up the whole system.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: ANR said they don't need that right away. They don't need it in the FY '27 budget. You're walking through.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: And ANR seen this language.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: ANR has definitely seen has definitely seen this language. That accounts for my long silence and my long delay. Since ANR said this is foundational work and ANR is the agency that's gonna do the work, it was really important to me that ANR approved this language. And so this is fully ANR vetted and approved.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. So total funds are approaching 800,000 again, including the two FTEs, they say on average is 130,000 per position. Correct?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: They're included in the five.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: I'm talking about down below as well.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. So we're

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: up to 800,000 almost, but yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: No. The they need two different sections of language here. They need the money, the 500,000, and that's gonna cover all the work and the staff. And then they need they need language that specifically says and this is who those staffers will be.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: But that's additional staff.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That's not additional. It's included in the five.

[Ellen (Legislative Counsel)]: I just drafted I was gonna they're gonna take it out of the five.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Because the way I read this is it's the establishment of two new permanent classified employees, and that to me states it's an addition to that five. No.

[Ellen (Legislative Counsel)]: No. That that specific language specifically for the Department of HR is gonna need to, like, be able to create those. And so you're right. There will be a a cost to them, but the appropriation that ANR will be getting is this $500,000. That, I think, potentially will be subject to discussion about this specific amount, and that will happen in house appropriations, but that is intended to cover the staff.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: So wouldn't wording in a be better? I'm not questioning you. Just saying it including the establishment of two new physicians today in a separate line item?

[Ellen (Legislative Counsel)]: No. But you you if it's not clear, I think you you could add to say, for the staff that is being created. But it's two separate things. These two things will actually get separated further down the the legal process. But I guess you you could be more specific and say for the new staff created under this. I

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: think the intent to the language is it's how we it's how we do this in bills, And

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Well, I I disagree that that's beside the point.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Right. I mean, I I guess what I'm saying is that ANR is clear and pledge counsel is clear, and so the it's not additional money for the staff. We're giving We're giving ANR basically the two titles, and the funding for those two folks will come out of the 500,000 Any other questions? Yeah. Does anyone know off the top of

[Unidentified committee member or staff]: their head how much that would bring the total of staff up to? Are they 13 now? They don't.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I also don't know if those folks will be at the clinic action office. The surgery will. Could just be at ANR. Alright. Any other questions for Ellen? Alright. I think we have Rob Bailey wanting to join us to vote. Is he gonna call me, Rob Southworth?

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. I'll text him.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: We take my phone off somewhere. I have to put my. Is Kathleen at 01:45? She's Zoom again. At at 01:45? Mhmm. Okay. Do you want me to see if she can come earlier? Sure. Are you guys okay with that? Are we moving right to the vote or

[Unidentified committee member or staff]: is there a discussion? That was a discussion.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I think that was a discussion. You wrote that, Laura. K. No. I'm sorry. That's okay. We're waiting for Rick Southworth to call in. He's right here. He's with us in the room. You see Bailey? Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Multitasking, never good for me. I was trying to make sure my phone was unmuted so that rep Bailey.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Hear his phone now, please. Okay. I'll do that. Thank you. Alright.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: While we wait, so I I we've talked about this a lot in the committee, but this bill this bill is going to probes. And, you know, in some ways, that's really where the pedal will hit the metal. So I don't know. Rutland Bailey.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Hi. You're on speaker. How are you? Good. You're on speaker live on YouTube in our committee room.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. Thanks for joining us. We're we're just about to take the vote. So Oh. Yep. And I always get the language wrong. I will Make a motion. Yeah. Entertain a motion to approve Report favorably. The committee report favorably. So moved. Okay.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Clerk shall commence.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: At the clerk shall commence to call the roll.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Representative Bailey?

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: No.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Representative Campbell?

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yes.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Representative Howland? No. Representative Puttner?

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Yes.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Representative Laura?

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Yes.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Representative Yes. No, you're here. Don't pass down, so.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: No problem.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Representative Torre and Chair James?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yes. Okay. Rutland?

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: Yes.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Sorry about that. I meant to mute you, but I accidentally muted the room. So we just have the vote, and Dara's about to read the results here.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Okay, thank 30,

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: and the reporter of the bill is? Representative James. 630, and I'm the floor reporter, and it's going to approves.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Very good.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: All right, thanks for calling in, travel We'll see you after break.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Thank you very much. I appreciate the flexibility.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: You bet. Thanks for calling in. Bye.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Bye, Rich. You

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: too. Bye, Rich. Thanks. Technology. Alright, thanks everybody. So we'll see what happens in a probes. And we have Carol Lynch. Should we just stick with 145?

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Thank you, ma'am.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Because we have committee discussion we could do. Do that right now.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: So the procedure, does this get read on the floor on the tenth and then assign to a vote?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: It's that thing where the speaker says, you know, whatever she says and blah blah blah, and we'll be referred to the committee on civilizations. So it'll there won't

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: be in that. Yeah. There won't be any floor report on the electives.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Nope. The budget of the state. Practicing the budget of the state. Yes.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. It'll it'll go to appropes, and then appropes is gonna they have a ton of bills, you know, stacking up on their wall, and they have to get them all out before the twentieth.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: They have one week or two weeks?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: They have two weeks left

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: after the day. Week after the they have an additional week after the thirteenth. Yeah. Yep. And they goes into that envelope process. The thirteenth.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yep.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: We've met our crossover.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. And probes could do one of two things. I mean, they could call up the bill and just vote no, or they could what they often do is they strip the money out, and they keep a spreadsheet basically of all the bills that are coming to them with requested money. And this is already on their spreadsheet because, you know wrote a letter. Yeah. It was in our letter. And plus I I put this on a probe's radar in, like, July. Saying like, hey, there's this bill. I'm probably gonna introduce it. And it was in our letter with know, noted that it was a sixth repo. So what I think is probably more likely to happen is that they'll strip the money out, and the money will either be in the budget or not be in the budget. So I'm really unclear at this point whether or when it'll come to the floor. So this bill has largely been about the money from, you know, from the get go. But I did wanna talk about since we have a minute, let's talk about all of our other work. So I feel like we're making progress. So, H740, we just voted out. I feel like the committee bill is gonna be vote out of both. And so I'm gonna get an updated draft on that, and we'll I'll circulate it over break. We'll get it posted, and I think we can probably vote on that committee bill. Maybe even, I don't know, maybe even Tuesday. I'll just keep everybody posted. I want to make sure everybody has time to So get that's 07:40 off to approves. Committee bill, we're gonna vote out next week. Laura is working on her data center bill. And she's meeting with Maria. She's gonna incorporate all of our conversations, all the feedback from DPS, the feedback from Efficiency Vermont and Feedbird, the feedback from the PUC, the feedback from the Land Use Review Board, additional suggested language coming from the caucus. That's all going to become an updated draft that she'll send out then to all the key stakeholder folks for like, here's the new draft, what do you think? Need to hear back from you quickly. So that bill, I'm just gonna schedule committee time for that next week in an undetermined way, but we're definitely gonna vote that one up for crossover. Net metering hit the wall, I'm afraid. So we'll return to hello, my daughter. We'll return to the topic of solar after crossover and just take testimony, I guess, and see where we wanna go with that topic for down the road. Residential Energy Code, House General took a flyby, and Scott walked them all through it. And no suggestions, no changes. They did a straw poll. Six yes, one abstention, which is I feel very And three folks were not in the committee room, but I've since talked to them, as has Scott.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Actually, I haven't I haven't talked to all of them. Okay. So 613. What

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: what did I say?

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Something different. Against. But yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: 613 and one

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: reserve. Okay. So three absent, one no, and one abstention. Right. Okay. That's 64. So

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: what was the basis of the abstention? He's a builder. Wanted wanted just more information. He's a builder, and wanted to talk it through some more. I I have talked to him before, but some more talking to people. Great. Just having that chance to do it. Thank you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: But I don't think we're gonna get anything from them in writing or anything. Right? I mean, there were no there were no substantive.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: No. No.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. And then speaking of flyby, sorry. I forgot. House environment is gonna fly by our data center, probably on Wednesday. Where did I lose the thread? Oh, h 753, I think we're very close on that. So that'll be voted out next week. And then, our joint carbon emissions reduction committee took a bunch of notes from our conversation, and we got a little bit more feedback from Scott Moore.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: I have some thoughts on that as well.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. Let me take my note pad. Scott Moore wrote to us and reminded us to strike out office of legislative operations because Oh, yeah. I was gonna miss missed. I guess that's, like, ceasing to exist or ceased to exist. I'm sorry that my desk is such a mess right now, but Well, anyway, what are your thoughts, Rick Southworth? Oh, found it. Okay. I had a thought too. Now that

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Oh, yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Have a good time to have thoughts. Where's the office of Ledge? I'm just gonna provide that to fix. Okay? Alright.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Give me the title and something in section 17, but I'm

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. It's title two chapter 17.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: So common wording when naming representatives is to define that they can't be from the same party or affiliation.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That's right. We had talked we had talked about that. I think you just say

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: And I would just like to make sure that we include all

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Independents, republicans, democrats, everyone inclusive.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: How do how do we typically word that? Not all from the same party. Right?

[Ellen (Legislative Counsel)]: The way you don't do

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: it is to say one from each Right. Right. Okay. So if you say not all from the same party. That's how I've typically seen it. I think that's important to add, so not all from the same party. And that should be on both the House and Senate side. Good one. Thought about that and then forgot. Can

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: you just run through what committees that we are saying they have to be from?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. It's gonna be four representatives. And on the house side, we have commerce, environment, transportation, and us. And then on the senate side, also four members, we only specified natural resources, economic development, and transportation, so they would have one at large.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: They don't be told I should be casting stones. They're just around. I don't know. They may. Yeah. They do. People who have expertise in the energy that may not be on one of those companies. Well power pins. Yeah. Yep. And it may be a minority of that. It just that's

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: No.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: What thoughts do they have?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So one way to do that there's I can think of two ways to do that. We could make it five numbers. Just go with 10. I mean, you know, we're used to being a smaller committee, but most of our committees are 11 people.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Right.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So, you know, I we're accustomed to a smaller table, but we have plenty of committees that are 11. In fact, most of them are. So we could just go with 10. People are certainly accustomed to that. Or we could be less directive in the committees we're insisting on?

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: I was wondering about that.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I would knock out commerce.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: And just say maybe at a minimum at least one member from this committee and this committee and leave a couple of positions open. Yep. I don't know. I'm just trying to spitball her because I just don't wanna pigeonhole us too. Yeah. I

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: that. I

[Ellen (Legislative Counsel)]: do think it's important to make

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: sure that you have they don't get disconnected from your committees and jurisdiction. Oh, that's Understood. Crazy. I I think we definitely do wanna make sure that they are connected. It doesn't have to be

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: all of those members. What

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: if we go with just go with Tim?

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: And then the There's more at large. Delegate to be named by the speaker, and then people can approach the speaker.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. And Well, we just all we do there is we just say we just say five representatives, and we just list four committees, and then the speaker's got because when when the speaker's appointing a committee like this, she usually goes out to chairs and says who do you think should be on, but people also, people are going to see this bill coming through. People who want to be on it are going to be, should be, approaching the speaker and saying like

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: hey, I'm making sense, then just, I'm open to that. Just started thinking a little more wider range than what we were originally.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: What about going with 10 members and that allows for one at large in the House and two at large in the Senate? Or if we really wanna go big, we could do 10 members, knock out Commerce and Economic Development. Just keep in the core Who's the other one? I'm sorry. Energy and Environment Committees, and there'd be more at large members. Oh, I wouldn't put energy and environment and not commerce. Okay. We are putting environment at the commerce. Alright. Well then. Alright. Then, what about that? Just stick with 10 members and there's more out largeness.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: I I'm not open to that. I'm just I was trying to think that we're pinching all of ourselves into maybe excluding people that may have some. Alright.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: It's fine by me. What about?

[Unidentified committee member or staff]: For the house. House in general.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: For the community? That's right. Or Should I I mean, it

[Unidentified committee member or staff]: I'm just thinking these flex buildings are such a big source of emissions. And Mhmm.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Weatherization. That could be the at large person. Because This is this is what I'm sending. Yeah. Well, you missed that. I You missed that conversation. I can be fine with energy and environment. But

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Or just make sure those are in two main ones, and then that leads to.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And unless their authority, like, it's just making. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So That's right. Alright. So what sorry. So what did we decide? We got to eight. But so we weren't. We were at the pen Okay. With one at large on the house side and two at large on the side. Yeah.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Did mister Morrow raise any question with must meet five times in the upper limit? So there's no upper limit?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: There's no upper limit. We were gonna say at a minimum of five times.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Right. But he didn't he didn't comment on on the heaters came in and said, this is what that's why this is what it cost to conduct a meeting.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Alright. One That's

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: commerce, energy, environment, transportation, and other in the house

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: at large. And I don't think we have to say because Is that what you said? I don't think we have to say and other.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: It'll No. No. No. I didn't.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I Oh, okay. Was just asking. Yeah. No. We where we landed was five members. Yep. And we're gonna have commerce, environment, transportation, and us. Right. And then five on the Senate, and that's natural resources, economic development, and transportation. Okay. And then, I wanted to talk about No, finance. We took a month for. Okay. That's regular payments. Well, they'll do it at large.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Okay. Great stuff.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And the less directive we are, the less people have to come back and revise this every time your committees change. There was the only thought I had about the we had also talked about the duties. And I really liked concerning the future of energy in Vermont. The more I thought about it, the more I realized I'm not comfortable striking any emission I mean, any mention of carbon emissions because that's you know, the future of energy in Vermont is very, very, very broad. And it's very important to me that we include carbon emissions as one of the subjects.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: I didn't know we struck struck that out. Well Talk to the name of equation.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Because I mean the future of clean energy. That's not. Future of energy.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: I like that.

[Unidentified committee member or staff]: What's wrong with cleaning?

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Nothing in my mind. Clean and or dirty.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Holler people from the clean coal department.

[Unidentified attendee (Treasurer’s Office representative)]: Oh my god.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: You're hurting me. Clean is the dirty one. So I I would propose that we leave the duties as is and then add and concerning the future of energy and Vermont. I mean, if we wanted to, we could really go big and say something like energy supply generation and sighting, but I Wow. Woah. Exciting. Exciting sounds exciting. Exciting sounds very exciting. Okay. So we'll leave it we'll leave it as it's written since that's the original duty that I think it's important to leave it in there and say and something about and concerning the future of energy in Vermont. We talked about yesterday.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Do we wanna list out specifically the energies we're looking at them or asking them to look at?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I think that goes into either session or a letter because that could change over time too.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: True.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. You guys want me to get distracted? Yes. Okay. So that is our that's our list. So, I will and then floor next week, the times are not changing. I'm sorry. Keep saying that. Yeah.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: They're not changing.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: The floor so we're all gone next week. Everybody comes back on Tuesday morning. Floor times are not changing. The week we come back. The week we come back.

[Ellen (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. Great.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: They're staying at 03:30, so committees have kinda have time to do their work. And we had talked about trying to see whether we could attach session law to this that would direct them on their homework. That's where we would get specific. Awesome. And if we can come to agreement, we could we could tack that on there. So we'll we should allow discussion time for that. If not, it has to be a letter.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: I mean, I I think it just should be basically inclusive of any any energy source that's

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Available. Doesn't mean that they're gonna say, Oh, we have to do this. It's just giving a broad spectrum of what's out there what it does, pros and cons, and go from there. Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. Well, I'll get this drafted. I guess we can and then that's that was kinda my grand farewell that I I don't think I missed anything that we're trying to get done for crossover. So when we're done with our last testimony

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: wanna just get wild and pick a bill?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I don't we'll see how much time we have. If we're twiddling our thumbs next week, we'll get We will not be twiddling our thumbs up. When we get back. I think we're probably gonna be busy, but we'll see. But and what date The data center bill is gonna be time consuming. That's that's And maybe the. What else are we accessing from the Senate? Okay. Yeah. That's a good question. So we have 202. We'll definitely take that up. So 202, we will take that up after crossover. We'll take all the testimony you would expect to take, and then we've had some requests for testimony that the senate didn't really have time to take, like, from the electricians union. I heard from them. And I think we'll have more time to get into the safety stuff.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Fire safety. So

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: so that that is our only s bill so far. The senate has our solar bill, our copper to fiber bill, and our cell tower bill. And I I would expect all three of those are gonna pass. I I don't think any of those are gonna hit like, oh, they're dead. So I would expect those to pass. Solar may not look very different. Consolidate the copper bill, who knows? And the salt tower bill, I have no idea what they're gonna do with that. But we can expect those back at some point. So we'll need to you know, at a minimum, if they pass it back without changes, there's nothing to do. But if they've made changes, that's what we'll have to do. Then we have talked a lot about taking testimony on the future of the nuclear industry. I'm really interested in taking testimony on citing where we put stuff. I know you guys have heard in committee my frustration about solar. Where are we gonna put it? Did did do you know if senator Harrison got that procurement going? I don't. I'm starting out last night. Yeah. Senator Harrison and institute senate institutions are really interested in how the state procures, like state government IT procurement. But she didn't introduce her own bill this year, but Sibilia drafted a quick short form, and we gave it to Wendy and said we don't have time to get it out, but if you want to. So maybe that'll be coming over. And, you know, it'll go fast. I mean, I know this speaker has been talking repeatedly about it during on time, which is What time? It's, like, May 10 or something. I mean, that's so complete.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: It's up to what I heard today. What now? Up to what I heard grumbling around today. Well,

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: you know, who knows? But I reject we all are watching that. The curse it conference committee at the end the session again. It's pure world to be sitting around watching the senate house of senate education conference committees. So, yeah. I don't know if anything else has gone over. I I I don't think and I don't think senate natural is sending us anything. They're working really hard on some of this one. I think they're working on act twenty eight one too. Alright. Alex, is Carol here? He is. Yeah. Perfect. Carol. Come over. Yeah. Hey, Carol. Hi, Carol. Hello. Thanks for joining us. Of course. Thank you for having me. Yeah. We don't need to introduce ourselves because we never went off live. We've already done our thing. So I could just say that you are joining us this afternoon to provide feedback on an updated and greatly slimmed down draft of H753. Thank you.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: So,

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I think we can get a. One sec. Okay? Alex, is it anything on our end? Maybe

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: get rid of the

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: other He's in twice. Do you think? Yeah. Hey, Carol.

[Ellen (Legislative Counsel)]: I have you in the Zoom twice for some reason.

[Unidentified attendee (Treasurer’s Office representative)]: Do you know why that is? I can't try to remove you.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: There we go.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Can you say something now? Hello. Hi. That sounds good. I think it's Excellent.

[Unidentified attendee (Treasurer’s Office representative)]: Thank you. Much better. You can

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: still hear me? Okay. All right.

[Unidentified attendee (Treasurer’s Office representative)]: Yeah. So I apologize. There's construction going on behind me. So if you can hear that, I will attempt to make them stop hammering. My name is Carol Flint. I'm with the Department of Public Service. Thank you for inviting me today to provide feedback on H753. My remarks are very short, just that it seems to have moved in a good direction. It's workable and supportable and I think we can do the things that are asked of us. I should probably as part of the record object to unfunded work, but that is just par for the course.

[Carol Flint (Department of Public Service)]: We do the keep an eye on, as you already know, on disconnections and can certainly report on that to the legislature. The particularly reasonable is the amount of time that's afforded and you know, in looking at more revisions as well. The PC doesn't open up a process on its own in the interim, I appreciate the deadline that gives us some time and concrete, you know, an opportunity for a concrete movement at that point in time. That's really all I have to say.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That's great. Torre is excited. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Does anybody have any questions?

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: So let me reiterate. You did say unfunded work.

[Unidentified attendee (Treasurer’s Office representative)]: Additional work, I should say, that doesn't come No.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Either way, but that was the point I wanted to emphasize.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. Anything else for Carol? Great. Well, Carol, we're gonna sorry. What are we waiting on in this bill? You asked for testimony and the PFC for We'll have a draft delivered to the committee sometime over break. And, yeah. Right? Right. So, I'm gonna clean this one up. Great. Okay. And I guess the only the only shifting gears would be if we hear something from Vermont Gas or from the PUC that gives a majority of committee members pause. Correct. Okay. Alright, Carol. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Thank you so