Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: We're live.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: All right. Welcome back everybody to House Energy and Digital Infrastructure. We are continuing our conversation of H740 with Jared Duvall, a climate counselor, and we'll just introduce ourselves. My name is Kathleen James, I am from the Bennington Ford District.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Scott Campbell from Saint John's Creek. Richard Bailey, one two. Chris Morrow, Windham, Windsor, Bennington, Mike Southworth, Caledonia. Christopher Howland, Rutland four.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Territory, Washington two.

[Graham Butler]: Graham Butler, Chittenden 13, Burlington.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Laura Sibilia, two. In the room.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: Jane. Jane Blasour, Czech Climate Action Office Agency of Natural Resources.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Allison Essex, Patsy from Out of Strike Clean Environments.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. For the record, Jared, thank you for being here.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Thank you, chair James and members of the committee. For the record, my name is Jared Duvall. I'm joining you today as a member of the Vermont Climate Council, and I wanna be clear that my testimony is solely in my capacity as an appointed member of the climate council and does not represent a position of the organization I work for. As I've mentioned with to this committee previously, EAN does not take positions on bills before the legislature. So in my council capacity, I've served on the climate council since October 20, October 2020 when I was first appointed by the senate committee on committees, to serve as the member of the climate council from, and I quote, a Vermont based organization with expertise in energy and data analysis. I was reappointed to this by the senate committee on committees in 2023, and I'm currently serving with my second term on the council. On the council, I chair the science and data subcommittee and also serve on the cross sector mitigation subcommittee, aka pollution reduction recommendations, and also serve on the council steering committee. In these capacities, I was a coauthor of both the initial, Vermont Climate Action Plan in 2021 and the updated Climate Action Plan adopted by the council as of 07/01/2025. And I wanna share that as counselors, we are required by the Global Warming Solutions Act, act one fifty three of 2020 to make recommendations to the legislature, specifically section four of 10 b s a chapter 24, subsection five ninety one d outlines, the things that the council shall recommend to the legislature, including, related to, statutory recommendations. So from my perspective as a counselor and as chair of the science and data subcommittee, wanna I share with you that I believe h seven forty is the single most important bill before the committee, this session in terms of helping to meet Vermont's commitments to reduce climate pollution and to do so in ways that lower overall cost. Not because this bill will reduce pollution or costs on its own, but because tracking key data and information is a necessary precursor to more meaningful and effective pollution and energy cost reduction efforts in Vermont. Quite simply, if we can't do this most basic and simple of steps, we're not going to be able to reduce pollutions pollution and costs in the ways that are proven to be most effective in other states. The reporting requirement envisioned in this bill is a top priority recommendation of the climate council, one of the top 10. And specifically, the first emissions reduction recommendation made by the council in the 2025 Climate Action Plan is to quote, develop a framework for the reporting of GHG emissions data from fuel suppliers and other significant emitters of climate pollution. Right now, Vermont has very good estimates of the aggregate amount of statewide climate pollution emitted in Vermont by virtue of the Vermont greenhouse gas inventory produced by the agency of natural resources. What we do not currently know is which fossil fuel companies are responsible for what share of those emissions, I. E. How many gallons of fossil fuels are imported into and sold within Vermont by whom. This lack of information limits the state's ability to have those corporations be held responsible for helping to reduce pollution over time. As the saying goes, if you don't measure it, you can't improve it. Overall, there are five key reasons that as a member of the council and chair of the science and data subcommittee that I support h seven forty. First, basic data collection and reporting as proposed with the greenhouse gas reporting registry is a necessary precursor for any meaningful and effective pollution reduction policy. Has been true for the regional greenhouse gas initiative or RGGI in New England states, including Vermont and Northeastern states, I should say. It's been true of clean fuel standards in Washington, Oregon, and California. It's been true of cap and invest programs in Washington, Oregon, and California. New York is also now advancing a GHG reporting requirement as the first step in its proposed multisector cap and invest program. And I believe heard today from, Jane and secretary Moore that Massachusetts is advancing a reporting requirement on its heated fuel sector. Second, as a participant in the regional greenhouse gas initiative, Vermont is already among the states that require reporting of emissions, specifically from any fossil fuel fired power plant above 25 megawatts. So there's a precedent for requiring this type of reporting. Right now, we're just limiting who does the reporting, and I would say to our least emitting, least costly sector, not our most polluting, most costly sector. So beyond the utility sector and in contrast, Vermont does not currently require supplier level reporting of emissions from what are by far the largest sources of climate pollution in Vermont. The combined hundreds of millions of gallons of gasoline, diesel, fuel oil, propane, and other fossil fuels imported into Vermont by fossil fuel corporations for use in the transportation and thermal sectors. Specifically, the transportation and thermal sectors combined for approximately 72% of Vermont's climate pollution as of the latest inventory, far surpassing our electricity sector at only 3%. Another reason that I support this as a member of the council and chair of the science and data subcommittee is that as the federal government becomes a less reliable source of energy and emissions data collection and reporting, we're already seeing this with EIA and EPA, a state level reporting requirement ensures that Vermont can track and understand key data that is necessary to inform efforts to protect the health and environment of Vermont Vermonters. I also wanna, share that for purposes of efficiency, clarity and effectiveness, I agree with ANR's recommendation, which is reflected in H740 for

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: a

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: standalone reporting rule rather than an attempt at data harmonization whereby various pieces of data would aim to be stitched together from across separate agencies of state government. While the tax department already collects some data from fuel suppliers, such data are not sufficient to calculate emissions because emissions calculations require data not just about gallons sold, but also about fuel type and content as the secretary and and Jane spoke to earlier.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. Say that again. The data that tax gets isn't sufficient because

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Because they're reporting gallons sold of, say, fuel oil, propane, but we don't necessarily know the bio content of those fuels. That's not tracked by tax. But it's like the number the the emissions that come from different fuels are different depending on the bio content. And so that would be important information to track for a greenhouse gas reporting requirement that is currently not collected by by tenants. Is that sorry. Is that sufficient, Sharon James? Did that

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: You say it one more time. So they're reporting gallons sold.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yes.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: But they're not reporting?

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: On gallons of biofuels. And when either on their own or when blended with fossil fuels, they will have a different emissions calculation depending on the bio content as opposed to the fossil contents.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: So

[Unidentified Committee Member]: that that would mean taking a plant based oil and mixing it with a traditional feed bar oil. So that's the type of biofuel fuel that's coming from other sources, plant sources. Biosoil let let me let me react. Biofuel is plant sourced oil.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Plant. Or or biological base. I mean, there there's many different types okay. Yeah. Exactly.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay. Any any okay. Bio, meaning something that was living above the

[Graham Butler]: grass. Yes. That was living recently. Yeah.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: So, you know, examples of of biofuels include, biodiesel, which can be made from different, it can be made from recycled restaurant oil. It can be made from different, agricultural waste. It can be, you know, there as you said, there's also animal fats that can be involved. So there's a whole bunch of different types of biofuels, they all have different, emissions associated with their combustion. And so it's important if ANR is seeking to understand the emission of, the fuel sold, that there's not sufficient data in what is collected by the tax department already to be able to fully calculate that as accurately as we'd like, set aside the logistical considerations of the challenges of sharing the information we're just already speaking to.

[Graham Butler]: And just to make the difference explicit, if you have a mixture of 80% diesel, 20% bio, so you've got 100 gallons, that's 80 gallons diesel, 20 gallons bio, that's gonna have a different emissions profile than 100 gallons of diesel. Got it.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: And then there's also ethanol, is another factor. Yeah. Have you have you calculated anything of ethanol? Is it true? Do you include the the the diesel involved in running the tractors that seeded and harvested and all that, you know, So just complicated. And

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: then the the last thing that I wanted to share with the committee is, that in climate council meetings, there was this the lone vote against recommending a reporting requirement came from the counselor appointed to represent, the fossil fuel industry who argued that fossil fuel suppliers do not have the time or expertise to calculate emissions. My understanding is that this argument at best reflects a misunderstanding. A reporting requirement would not require the corporations to import fossil fuels into Vermont to calculate emissions. Rather, as proposed in h seven forty and as done in other states, fossil fuel suppliers will merely have to report data that they already have, specifically, quote, the types and volumes of fuel sold, and then the calculation of the emissions associated with the combustion of those fuels, can and would be completed by ANR, not the fossil fuel operations themselves. So these are after reviewing h seven forty, after, reviewing the climate action plan recommendations, these are the reasons that I, support this bill as a foundational necessary piece for any meaningful efforts to reduce pollution and costs going forward.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: Comments or questions for yeah.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: So I'm looking at the greenhouse gas emission chart here. So with your new plan, what what what's gonna be changing in this reporting structure that just an RVR Mhmm.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Relation to the greenhouse gas inventory

[Unidentified Committee Member]: or what you are proposing us to do with

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: the 800,000 with the

[Unidentified Committee Member]: new tracking system and everything. It's just gonna is this report gonna look different?

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Sorry. I just wanna make sure I'm clear on what report you're referring to. Is this the climate action plan? Is it the greenhouse gas inventory?

[Unidentified Committee Member]: It's the greenhouse gas inventory.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Okay.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: So the ANR's churn, I

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: believe. Last So it was 2025 or July 2025.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: So as a mem as chair of the science and data subcommittee, I certainly review the greenhouse gas inventory and forecast. I do not you know, I'm not involved in producing it, so I would defer to to to Jane and the ANR about the change that they envision making about the inventory. But my understanding is that, on the one hand, this would help improve, some of the data and accuracy in the inventory specifically with regard to, how biofuels are included and measured or not. Separately, this is net I see this as being necessary not just about the inventory. I think that this bill and the data collection that it envisions would improve the the quality of the inventory. But I think it is more about if we want to help reduce pollution and costs in Vermont, we need to know the sources of that pollution and cost, not just I mean, right now, we have this aggregate knowledge of here are the hundreds of thousands of gallons. Here's the number of gallons of gasoline sold, but we don't know who's bringing that in. And if we envision if you all envision any type of policy framework in the future that would have the sources, the importers of that fuel responsible for helping to Vermont to reduce pollution and costs over time, then we need to know who's importing that and how much and how much of the statewide pollution that is created, those individual entities are responsible for. Right now, we don't have that information.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Yeah.

[Graham Butler]: Do you have an opinion on whether, as we were discussing earlier, single facilities above a certain emissions level should or should not be included?

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: I don't have a firm final opinion on that. I am curious to see the research that ANR is doing on that. I do think that there is a benefit to some level of consistency between states in terms of the levels that they've set for that reporting. And I'm interested to know that New York, for instance, sets their level at 10,000, tons. You know, there are different state contexts, but, you know, I I think gathering information that ANR is gathering on what do different states require for reporting of different facilities at different thresholds is a is a necessary precursor to forming a a informed opinion on that. So I would I would wait and reserve judgment, but I think it's I'm glad that we're looking into it, but I think there's more information to gather before, that should be finalized.

[Graham Butler]: Presumably, the states we care about are New York, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, most other New England states secondarily. Yeah.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: I mean, in in terms of, you know, certainly the consistency for the, companies that would have to report, they're gonna be very familiar. We there are fuel companies operating in the Northeast that, you know, are not operating, you know, in other parts of the country that have these requirements and vice versa.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: More questions for counselor Yuval.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Yes? So, as you know, I really see this work around emissions tracking as deeply connected to the energy transition and the economic condition. Yeah. And so, I don't know if you have an answer for this, and I don't

[Unidentified Committee Member]: have an answer for this.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: This is not a trick question. I'm really trying to think about what this feels like a very important data source to kind of track that transition. It always has to me. But I'm trying to think about other data points that might help us additionally track that transition so that we are aware of people falling behind. Yeah. Which is it happens in unregulated sectors that are consolidating.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: No. Thank you for that question. I mean, I'll I'll take my climate council hat off for a second and put my energy action network hat on. The the question you're raising is no. It's okay. Is exactly the primary question that we've been focused on with our recent research and and reporting as I shared the the special all day session was in October. October. You know, primarily around energy costs and energy affordability. So, yes, important to know energy use, important to know emissions. That's primarily what what, this is about. But, also, the amounts of those fuels that we're talking about lead to different costs for different people over different periods of of time. And so, you know, personally, I am very interested in knowing, you know, how much are the energy status quo in Vermont costs Vermonters, at the household level, at the business level, and over time, and how can we bring those costs down, and how much does the energy status quo cost Vermont as a state as a whole, both directly in terms of how much we spend. Latest year of data, over $2,000,000,000 spent on fossil fuels, but also the indirect costs of that fossil fuel dependence. It's not just that those fuels have tended to be expensive and price volatile, leading to very little kind of stability for the planning of household or business budgets. It's also that it's in a 100% imported fuel, which, means that most of the cost that we pay for it is is bound up in in the commodity cost of importing that fuel from some far flunk place, which drains money out of the state. So our estimates are that roughly 75% of every dollar that we spent on spent on fossil fuel leaves the Vermont economy versus other fuels source other strategies that are recommended in the climate action plan, like weatherization. Most of the cost of weatherization is local contractor labor, as opposed to wood heat where most of the, wood that is used for heating in Vermont comes from the state, often legally required in terms of not transporting cordwood, beyond certain differences, distances, or across state lines. And, of course, the same is also true with electricity, a far higher share of our electricity dollars staying and recirculating in state, because most of the costs on an electricity bill go to things like line maintenance and tree trimming and customer service operations and either local or regional power purchases that keep our dollars much more local than it as a part of a global fossil fuel market. So I know that this bill doesn't directly address that, but I want you I wanna share with with you and the committee that there are, you know, there's additional data that we're that EAN is collecting and reporting on as with regard to energy costs and energy affordability that I think is also an important part of this conversation. But then there's data that, you know, simply is is is not shared or is not accessible and needs the the needs regulation and statutory clarity to make sure that it's provided. Like, no nonprofit could report the data that you're seeking because it's not or analyze it because it's not reported. It's it's in the black box. And so, you know, I think that there is an important element of of transparency, that goes into just basic data collection of the source that this built in which it's I'm saying that as switching back to my

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Counselor. Which has R. Torre? As a town energy coordinator, I'm wondering, like, is this going to filter down to the town level, this kind of insight to help us with our our local goals? Potentially.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: I also see challenges there. And the the reason I say that is because, you know, if if a importer of fossil fuels into Vermont is reporting the number of gallons that they sell, it's likely that they're going to be reporting the number of gallons that they sell from their place of business, and they won't necessarily know

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Where?

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: The end point of use. Okay. That's it's it's even it's especially complicated for transportation fuels because it's a mobile fuel source, but even with some heating fuel. So I I do think that there's value in in terms of having more granular and and local data, but I think that this is primarily about knowing the amounts, the volumes, the content, the types of fuel sold at the supplier level, which likely is not going to track on to, you know, this amount of fuel use or emissions by town.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: So why would even by county be relevant in that case? Not really a geographical, sounds like.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: I mean

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: because I I would love to be able to connect it to any burden.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Like Yes.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Change over time.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Yeah.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: But it sounds like it's not because it's the front end of the transaction. It's not. Right.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Yeah. Well,

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: I just have a question, though. As we you know, in the future, if we were going to design a policy, wouldn't it be really helpful to see if there are counties in the state that are far more reliant on fossil fuels than others? It seems to me like it could be a really easy snapshot to show, you know, where there are more or fewer

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Maybe that's a good question for Matt in terms of you know, I don't know what their sales territory is. Like, does it go outside of the county? Like, I just have no insight into how transact

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: I mean, I I think that the the data envisioned in the kind of by county part of of this bill, it's potential that it gets to the very question that R. Sibilia has brought up multiple times, and I think that I think is really important in terms of understanding the landscape of suppliers geographically across the Contract. Right. And and where there may be gaps in energy supply and availability.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Okay. Which

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: feels to me more possible to do at a county level or a regional level than it would be at a town level.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Yes. Well, so following up on that, it seems to me that it wouldn't be hard to collect data based on the location of the supplier, but not necessarily to ask the supplier to then sort out where that fuels could be delivered. I'm talking about heating fuels now. Transportation fuels would be at their home, so they're more difficult. Maybe I'm thinking before I'm talking before I'm thinking. I guess including asking the fuel suppliers to include the town where that fuel that heating fuel is delivered to ANR would be possible, and then ANR would be able to provide town level town level detail or or counter level detail, and and that would be useful for understanding, as perhaps as we had talked about, where there are potential gaps in in availability for for fuels. And as for transportation fuels, that's I guess you would you would know where the gas stations are, basically. Right? Or yeah. Where where they're where they're being supplied from at least. But I wanted to ask you a question. And that was in your role as chair of science and data, does that give you any thoughts or questions about hurdles for ANR to set up this this data collection, system? Maybe you can do you have any any thoughts about that? Does it seem straightforward? Does it seem like it would be really complicated?

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Yeah. I mean, when we were working on the climate action plan, part of that involved outreach to other states that have, been active in these areas and have been leaders in reducing pollution and helping reduce energy costs as well. I know that, you know, I spoke with the pro the former program manager in Oregon of the clean fuels program there and talked about how they set up this reporting requirement and then how they manage it going forward. And, you know, the the result of that conversation was was similar to what secretary Moore and Jane shared, which is that there's this initial upfront cost to develop the reporting platform. And then there's a smaller ongoing cost of a staff to collect and file the the reports, much of which can, you know, be done electronically, but it does need quality control and kind of spot audits. And you know? But they they said that, you know, it's a very manageable task going forward. My recollection from Oregon was that they have basically one point person that, you know, there's the setup was a different process and a different staff requirement, but that they had one person that basically was responsible for collecting the data and ensuring I I believe they worked with contractors to do some of the kind of, like, spot checks in terms of the, to verify the accuracy and the the quality of the, reports coming from the fuel suppliers. Cool.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Do you have any sense then about, the NR's request for for two full time positions to be able to manage this.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: I would defer to them knowing their own. Yeah.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Well, guess you mentioned checking with other states like Oregon. Yeah. See if that would be a much larger endeavor.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Although their reporting requirement is is just on the originally, it was just on the transportation side. Now that they have a cap and invest program that's designed to reduce pollution and help folks lower costs, you know, across different sectors. Their their their reporting requirement is across all fuels. And so I don't know to what degree that the staffing of that has changed. This was really just this was a couple of years ago when we were asking them about the reporting for their clean fuels standard. That may be different. I wonder if it makes sense for us to ask that question either of other states or NCSL or somebody that could be able

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: to give and give us a, because we don't obviously, and our sense is what we need. We don't have any way of assessing that. Of course, the dollars is a is a is a big it's a big hurdle, you know, especially in in in a year when resources are part part of mind, they're available. So I don't know. Do you have any any comment on that?

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: No. I mean, my understanding is that ANR has been speaking with other states and gathering information about what it takes to run their programs. And so I my belief is that they have more up to date information on that than than I do. I would just mention that as as one example. Yeah. Okay.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: I'm gonna have this group, especially if you Rachel, if could Yeah. No. I think This is back to analyzing the indirect costs of reliance on fossil fuels. So the direct costs are obvious, cost a certain amount of money. Among the indirect costs are what is the cost to economic activity by all that money leaving Vermont's economy and going out of state. Another indirect cost, and I wonder if if this has been somebody tried to assess the you know? The the cost of the volatility of fossil fuels and and the and the uncertainty about what what the what price will be next year. And has anybody tried to tried to come up with a a way of putting a number on that?

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: It's an interesting question. Like an economic anxiety index. Mean, it's sort of

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: a it's sort of a discount. It's sort of

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: a discount.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Right. Which is a measure of the uncertainty of of the of the future value of whatever it

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: is you're trying to assess. Yeah. I am not aware of that, but I think I think that the list of those those costs beyond just the sticker or the bill price Mhmm. Is long. And and, you know, we're in an environment right now where the Federal Environmental Protection Agency just says that they are no longer going to account for the cost to human health from air pollution. That the value of human life, the cost, the health costs related to asthma and other respiratory diseases are gonna be treated as zero. And so to me, that

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: signal Vermont,

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: you know, which is a major change in decades of EPA Mhmm. Policy. To me, that underscores something that that came up in, my testimony earlier, which is I think it's advisable for Vermont to have a greater degree of control over the data that we collect and have for because of how many data sources are being taken down or stopping being collected either as a policy choice of the current administration

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yep.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Or because of gaps in you know, because of shutdowns. There were, you know, months of data that were not collected. So, I think having more control and ability to kind of write our own future is is a wise thing in these times, and that's this bill helps do that with some very critical and important information.

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: This one.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: Thanks. Yeah. I I actually just want to underscore that because we're having such a wide ranging conversation that we're talking a lot quite rightly about what additional information we would be gathering by standing up our own reporting framework. But it's I I was actually very happy to be reminded just now that we heard earlier testimony about the extent to which the current greenhouse gas inventory is reliant on federal data.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Yes.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: And to assume that we're just going to continue to be able to get that data, that it's going to be reliable, that it's going to be timely

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Should be.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: I think, maybe even more important.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: Like a huge question mark at best.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Yeah. Alright.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: Jared, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate your time. Just before we go off live, I just wanted to I always like to look ahead of the agenda a little bit. So we're gonna be back at 01:00, and we're gonna take more testimony on seven fifty three about disconnections and repair protections. And we're gonna pivot back to a 07:40. And then the one thing I wanted to make sure folks see is that, at 02:30, we're we're cramming a lot in. I just wanna make sure, Alex, that I've got it right. So Uh-huh. We have the PUC coming in. I think we're gonna have a quick conversation about their f y twenty seven budget. Just as part of our budget work, I Chair Magnumera has said there's, you know, not much. Doesn't sound like there's gonna be a whole lot to talk about. Then I believe we're gonna also hear from Greg to get their feedback on h 05/27. And I think is Ellen coming to walk through an updated draft? She wasn't feeling great. She didn't know if she was gonna be around for that. She said she might be able to zoom in. I can check-in with her, though. Okay. If you could just confirm, to know whether we're expecting a walk through or, of an updated draft for whether we're just gonna be hearing from the PUC. Okay.

[Jared Duvall (Vermont Climate Council member)]: We

[R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: have. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Do. We just We do. Yeah. On the website, but I can also email it. Yep. Great.

[Kathleen James (Chair)]: It is here. Yep. So, Alex, can you send that around? Yes. Great. Thank you so much. Alright. That's the plan. So, thanks everybody.