Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: We're live.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: All right. Welcome back, everybody, to House Energy and Digital Infrastructure. We are taking some testimony this morning on our draft committee bill 20 six-seven 26, which is taking a look at consumer protections and public notifications as companies make the transition from copper based to fiber based networks. So, we're gonna introduce ourselves real quickly and then turn it over to our witness. I'm representative Kathleen James from Manchester.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: Richard Bailey, Lamoille too. Chris Morrow, Windham Windsor, Bennington. Michael Southworth, Caledonia too. Christopher Howland, Maryland Ford.

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Dara Torre, Washington two. Bram Kleppner, Chittenden Thirteen, Burlington. Laura Sibilia, Windham Two. Great. In the room?

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: David with McRassing Group. Super. Good morning. John Bram Kleppner from Monash for Clean Environment.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. Alright. Barb, we are just wanting your feedback on the latest draft of the bill, which I believe is does anybody have that handy? Dated January '1? Is that okay? 1.2. 1.2 dated January 22. It hasn't changed until then since then.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: Okay. Good. Because that's the one I was working from.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So we're just looking for your comments. I don't know if you have screen to share or written testimony or if you just wanna check.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: I don't. I can certainly send things over as a follow-up if if needed. But for the record, I'm Barbara Neal, executive director of the enhanced nine one one board. And I am looking at the draft you just referenced, draft 1.2, and really just have a few comments. I mean, all of the findings that are listed, look accurate and appropriate and complete to me and kind of lay out the the picture of what's going on and what your intent is. So I found that helpful. On page three, starting at line eight, section D, we talk about the notice of network transition. There had been discussion earlier about including a requirement to notify the enhanced nine eleven board. I don't see that here, and I didn't see it anywhere else in the in the draft. So I think that would be helpful if the information came to us as well. We could also work with public service department and get it from them. But if it's being sent, it might be easy just to include us as well. We are, as I think you know, independent from the department from the department, So a separate notification would

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: be in order. I actually noticed that yesterday. It was our clear intent to include you in the draft and to make sure that you were notified. So we'll add that, assuming everybody on the committee agrees to page three subsection d where it says shall provide written notice to the commissioner of public service, to should it just be, I guess it's just the e nine one one board. We don't say the director of or right?

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: I don't know I don't know what the format normally would be, but certainly don't object to however you put it in there as long as we're getting the info.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Thank you. Talking about my job. Know what mean? Oh.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Oh, that's helpful. Yeah. I our our request didn't get didn't make this draft, and I believe we talked about Richard has it here. Actually, is great.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: This is actually last night. Don't what I'm doing.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: It's to the governor?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: I've been about it forever. You've had this one. Good notes all over.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And the e we had it wanted to add in addition to

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Yes. Yeah. No. Yeah. I've been working on that.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: Don't think the.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: All set? Yep. Okay. So we had meant to add to the governor and to the E911 board as well as the DPS. Mhmm. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I was wondering about that as we were talking about this yesterday. I think that just fell through the cracks. Yep. Yep. That's

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: that's fine. And I think what it's good for us to be aware. We do get occasional inquiries from from people about this type of thing. Often, we refer them to the public service department, or or at least coordinate, or be in contact with Hunter and his team, for how other similar inquiries are being handled. But it'd just be good to know what's going on really in real time. So thank you for that. As far as the things that are listed for the requirements of the notification, I didn't have any particular comments on on these. They all seem appropriate. I did listen, though, to to a hunter's testimony yesterday, and I think he was giving some, more some information about what they are including or wanting to include in the MOU, that maybe would then be in here. So I'm looking forward to, reading what he submits, and may have more comments on that when we get to that point. But, I didn't disagree with anything he said, but I'd like to be able to kind of read it, and know for sure. So so but generally speaking, I thought it it covered, you know, appropriate things to be included in the notification.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Right.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: And then on page five, line eight, section g, department monitoring. So this is where there would be exchange of the reports that we receive from originating service providers, that's the voice service providers, and electric power service providers. The reports on their outages would be shared with the public service department, and some analysis would be done of of the information in those reports. I just want to make you aware that the reports we collect from these companies might provide a very high level view of the towns and communities that have been impacted by the various types of outages, but they are at that town level that we are not getting reports down to the specific address level, for example. And so in order to make determinations about whether there are are are alternative services available at a particular location, those reports aren't gonna give that level of granularity. Just because you know you know how cell service, for example, varies from one corner of a community to the other. So so they don't provide that level. I think there could be some general information that could be gathered. And and, actually, Hunter had requested a copy of of the electric service provider outage reports from last year that he's looking over now, and and we'll continue to review that. I just sort of wanted to manage expectations on that.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. That's that's helpful. We definitely, you know, got some feedback yesterday on sort of the reporting sections of the bill that we're considering. So I think we need to take a look at that.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: Right. And, you know, in the we have always had certain requirements for outage reporting from originating service providers, telephone companies, since the inception of the nine eleven board in 1998. Getting the reports from the electric service providers is new, relatively speaking. It was a requirement in some legislation several years ago, and so it was implemented, I think it was originally in 2019. Might have that date wrong. Most recent update was 2023. That is not typically information that we would need. So we get we get this these reports really for situational awareness purposes, right? What's going on out in the communities and we provide those reports. I'm talking about the telephone service provider reports right now to, Public Service Department, to Vermont Emergency Management, and to first response agencies who have requested to receive them. And not all first responder agencies have requested that. So, go out on I almost said real time, but a a situational awareness for an event that is ongoing. We don't investigate the reports. We just basically put the put the information, out there to those who might need it in the moment. So, so I wanted you to be aware of what their those reports are for as well.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: And beyond that, I really don't have any any other comments. I I know there was discussion about whether this should be an MOU or be a piece of legislation. And I'll leave that to the people that make those decisions. So I do think, like I've said before, it's not possible overcommunicate in these situations when these transitions are happening. So the the the need to get that information directly from the carriers is important and helpful, just so everybody is aware of what's going going on. In our case, what we will probably do with those notifications is link to the what the robust description that Hunter gave yesterday of the information that they are making available on their websites. Mhmm. We could do the same, not not recreate, not reinvent the wheel, but link to that information. So if if customers or consumers are coming to our web page looking for information about these transitions, they'd get linked to the same consistent information, that they would have they gone to public service. So I think that messaging, that clear consistent messaging from the state would be important too.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That would be great. I I was sounds like you were listening. I didn't follow-up at the time, but did did Hunter say that page was new? It's a really good page. So I wasn't sure whether it was new or just I'm not I had

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: the impression it was new, but I don't I don't know that for certain. So

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. Do folks have additional questions for Director Neal? Okay. Quick thoughts in writing would be super great.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: Okay. Could I send them over just in an email or more formal than that?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Just send them in an email and you can either copy the whole committee or copy me and our committee assistant. Either way, we'll get it to everybody and we'll get it posted, done whatever you want to do. Yeah. For Howland?

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Do they have anything with integration of battery backup for this communications that's coming? Any any info on the need for battery? Well, we know the need. That's the ability of as witnessed testified earlier that the power consumptions are going down, so perhaps batteries could be one more conventional and last for a longer period of time.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: Are you asking if if if I have input on

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: the board has any opinion, I guess.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: What we think is critically important is that consumers, customers know the limitations, if you will, or maybe that's not even the fair way to phrase it, but know how the the systems work and that they're not that they are dependent on power. So there needs to be from the carriers, robust notification and education about that. Beyond that, the board, I should have said at the very beginning, I haven't brought this entire issue to the nine one board as a whole just yet. We're meeting in a couple weeks. So the board itself, though, hasn't taken a particular position on whether or not there ought to be battery backup requirements. So education is the key at this point.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Anybody else? No, thank you. Thanks so much Barb. Thank you. Yeah, appreciate, really appreciate your time. Alex, let's stay on live for just a minute to make sure that we're

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: all on

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: the thank you so much. To make sure we're all on the same page and that I know what we're doing next with this bill. So I'm just looking at the language. So we've got findings, findings, findings, findings, findings. And then on page three, and I know Maria isn't here, but I just wanna make sure we're all, like, taking notes and then I'm not misunderstanding anything. So on page three, line eight, like subsection d

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Mhmm.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That's not a complete list of who we talked about being notified. Mhmm. So we talked about they're already provided required to notify the governor and the secretary of defense. And the PUC. And the PUC. Okay. So hang on. I'm just I I need to write something down. Alright. So already oops. Okay. Oops. Great. I'm having technical problems, so I'm clearly not gonna write that down right now. Alright. So already is PUC, gov, and then the federal government. So we're adding DPS and e nine one one. Mhmm. Is that right? Yes. Okay. And then we had talked about, I thought, shall provide written notice. Were we gonna specify written and email? I I thought we had thoughts around Yes. Spelling that out a little bit more. Right?

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: That. So Was

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: it written and email? Okay. Okay. Then I'm scrolling down on that same page unless I hear otherwise. D two? D two. Yeah. We need to delete and broadband service. Right? Yes. Okay. Delete. D three needs to be tightened.

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. The And technical support was an issue. This is something I would expect we hear back from Maria.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. Looking at this. That they figured it was Yeah. And I I just flagged that the problems or the questions were around more alternative services.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. And and technical support.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Yep. I was wondering if the MOU is being worked on. If we get the language from that, if that can be incorporated into this because it's gonna be verbiage that is agreed upon. Right. And I think it would make it less contentious if we look at that language incorporated into this actual law, and maybe it wouldn't be dentures. As

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I like that. What I here's what I can't remember. When did Hunter say he'd get back

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: to us? Wednesday. Can't remember. Wednesday. The next week.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Oh, good. Okay. Because I I start I remember them saying several weeks for the MOU, and I started getting worried about crossover. I'm sorry.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: I heard several weeks too. I think you you get back to us on

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: follow ups, but yes.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: Well, you should clarify. I I I remember several weeks.

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Okay. So, madam chair, I would agree. May I be recognized, madam chair? Yeah. I would agree with representative Southworth. I think that that makes the most sense. Those are our technical experts at the department. You know, my sense was we were waiting for additional info from Hunter and from Maria on on this. I would not want us to give you know, right now, the department and Consolidated are in negotiation about the terms of that MOU. I don't know that it's imperative for us to wait for the outcome of that negotiation as much as it is to understand what the department is asking for in that negotiation.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: The other thing too is if we run up against a timing problem so why don't I write to Hunter and say, can you refresh us on what you're gonna get back to us and when?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: The other thing too, it is such a finite time frame from this transition that we're trying to address. Is it beneficial for a full And I'm I'm just voicing different thoughts. Is it beneficial for full blown blown law, or is the MOU gonna be enough to cover this transition? There are certain other copper based foam companies in the state, but they're fairly small. But it's just a thaw.

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Representative Sabra, my experience over my decade plus in this building with this company and with my constituents in rural Vermont, I have gotten very good at understanding, you know, how to work with CAPI and the department because the complaints have been so prevalent and the violations, they just continue. Like, it was clear to me something was happening this fall with the company and and because I've seen this before over and over and over again. And so that is why I think it is important for us to put this these are this is notice. It's notice. Yeah. We're put we shouldn't have to put this, but I think when there's a that quote when people show you who they are, you need to believe them. I mean, they have shown us what kind of company they are, and they've recently gone from public to private. So I'm not actually expecting this to get better.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: And I it's just not. Don't be yes. I think it's important issue.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And I had a more because I was thinking what you were thinking. We're doing a memory. Great. You know? You know, I like to check my check off the boxes. Sometimes my detriment. But I I am my concern would be what I sort of said a little bit incoherently yesterday, which is that this MOU is sort of a moment in time, you know, between the state of Vermont and one company now. And so I I I do think it would be beneficial to to pass this, and then it then we're kinda done. You know? So future companies, future if the department leadership turns over and consolidated leadership turns over and MOU gets, I don't know what, outdated, we've got this to fall back on to protect, you know, to protect Vermonters.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: And am I right that we don't really have a sense for how long

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: the transition is gonna last? That's right.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Consolidated so they noticed the people they were planning to transition, but they hadn't noticed the people on copper who they don't have a plan for yet. Just the phone search. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, maybe if they were gonna have it all done by June 1, that's a yeah. Yep. But it could be could be a few years. Right? Just Good point.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. So so we need to fix or talk to Maria about I I lost where we are. The bottom of page three. Alternative services, technical support. We just need to figure out that we have that right. I the questions I heard were, are we supposed to counsel people to, you know

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Go to other go

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: to other comp carriers? Correct. And then the technical support, I I heard that. I Yeah. That seemed then

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Rutland, I think I'm sorry. Was

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: that Yeah.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: One second, please? Alternative services. So if that interpretation is incorrect, if And what did we mean? Yeah. What what do we mean? Is it a alternative to VoIP? You know, it says transition of service to VoIP or something other than VoIP.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: What did we mean?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Is it So I'm just kind of piggybacking on that. Yeah. Button there. It's If I remember yesterday, the technical support base for continuing home monitoring, that doesn't fall into the purview of that company. That's more specific to the service Right. Or what they're getting. So I don't know if we actually need that language in them because it doesn't apply.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Yeah. Just and I'm wondering. So you've got a

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: copper line. They're yanking the copper line. They're not yanking it. Are they? Or they're abandoning it. They're lashing their fiber to it.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: They're they're using it as a support structure instead of a transmission structure. It's an expensive support structure we had a copper. Mhmm. They some place to sell it. But but, yeah, I I mean, are there alternatives to VoIP? You know, can consolidate and say, hey, your copper line's gonna stop working. If we're running fiber, you can have VoIP, or you could also do blah blah blah.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: It's like Cell phone. Yeah. Don't have their cell phone service. So Right. They don't have their cell phone service. Yeah.

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: That I know of. I should say that.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: I thought the alternate services were the devices in one's home such as Mhmm. First alert or Right. The fall protection that both needed power to run the I'll call it little white box. And and then there was communications between somehow I don't have one between a little white box and a telephone. So the the first alert or there's a I don't know what to call it, but there's community outreach where this type of notifications that that device, they have lost that type of communications through the telephone because lack of power to the white box in the wall. I don't know if it's plugged in with that traditional like, in a phone extension that you go from the room it's in to the where your communication

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: is to the side of the house. And and that's where I think the illness of the person comes into play to follow-up with that company to make sure that it's Right. Created with that system.

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: Madam chair.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: I'm sorry to interrupt. I have

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: to leave to go do

[Rep. Laura Sibilia (Ranking Member)]: a bill introduction in another Oh, I forgot at 11:30. I would just like to say that I I will be very interested. I know Maria Royal was taking a lot of notes in the in the conversation and the challenges. So I'll be very interested also what she comes back with, and she may have some solutions to us on some of this that you have time for that.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. And I will so I'm emailing Hunter to just clarify timing and what we're gonna be hearing from him, and then I'll email Maria and ask her if she can watch this conversation that we're having right now.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: And she was actually the one who I talked to yesterday about including that MOU language into this. Yeah. So she'd already far ahead of us as you

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: She usually is.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Now I'm back to a query as if the telephone consolidated is going to replace that last connection, what they referred to as the drop from the pole to the the home, to the people they're trying to serve. Are they still gonna serve that last 200 feet by copper cable? It

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: it it seems like their interest is in providing fiber to the to the home, fiber to the premises, because then they have themselves other services. It seems that was my interpretation of

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: what they're I I interpreted it as the cost of maintaining the copper communications that when all they want is a telephone dialed signal, then the cost of that dial tone only over copper was their costs were gonna be reduced. So whether they just move the fiber down the street to the pole, and then I'm I'm just very confused about where the line drops. That's at the gray box on the side of a a home that they used to have. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I I think In my region, I don't know how many of my constituents have telephone service by the cable company and probably don't have battery backup, whatever. Well, one of the ways

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: that they've they've been rolling out that for companies that have rolled out fiber is to bring fiber to a a neighborhood, but then copper from there to individual houses. And they would have to have some sort of backup power for that sort of larger ONT

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: that neighborhood size of ONT. So so but it the question we should ask, but I my my my impression was that that the purpose of Phidium was to convert the entire network to fiber to people's houses because then they can sell additional services. But the this notation here is that they are going to convert this little section between switching station and ultimate and that they're doing this and this they're doing these conversions in a section at a time. And so they'll take the view these group envelope boxes, whatever you call them, ONDs. Mhmm. So they have a ONT that can carry both everything down down conquered or off to the side tabs of

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: What what's ONT again? Something something terminal.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Optical network. Optical There we go.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Yeah. I then this is a question to ask because I I had an assumption you had an assumption we should ask the question to ask, find out what what the reality is. Rick Southworth?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Earlier on when we started talking about this, I brought up that. So people with underground service to their house, winds of conduit. Because the company is discontinuing the copper, does that mean that they are going to provide the service to run underground or is that cost gonna be on the homeowner? That's a valid question because that increases costs to people. I mean, I I know of in power companies, the underground is owned by the customer and maintained by them. I don't know if the same goes with the foam light actually being discontinued, who that cost falls on the

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: That's a question worth asking. It seems like it's they would they would wanna pull the copper line out Right. And use that as a way to and this is what happened at my house just recently, absolutely. And use that as a way to pull the fiber through. And and to conduit is easy. Direct burial is another matter. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: For Kleppner?

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: On contemplation, it seems to me we could just delete alternative services because whatever it means.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: It's not what we're talking about. We

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: are asking consolidated to give instructions to customers. They've got copper voice. They get instructions on how to switch to VoIP. So they have instructions on how to get the equivalent service. And if the customer wants something other than that, they can go find it but I don't see any reason to have consolidated explain or you can use cell service and blah blah blah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay and then we I believe want to delete in technical support. So would it just be including information for customers seeking to continue home monitoring equipment? We wanna keep that in there, right, about the home monitoring equipment? Because it's not the

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Chair Neil made a good point that it would be good to have consolidated informed customers that they should talk to the provider of each of their in home network devices to ensure that it will keep running fiber.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Yeah. So maybe Talk to the Yeah. So maybe not information, but informing Yeah. Customers Yes. About the need to connect.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That they need to basically, they need to talk to the Understand the implication. The the customers, like you said, need to talk to

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Yeah. Right.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: The manufacturer of their

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Yeah. Person alert.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Or People like that thing. Alarm system. Yeah. Lights on. Yeah. Just service site is a great name. Birthday works. And it

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: I mean, I think for consumers, like a generic, your connected devices may not mean anything, so some examples would be helpful.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I I agree. Yep. So they understand this could impact devices such as blah blah blah.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Yeah. Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. And then top of page four, I this is where I started writing down things like, you know, we will hear back from Hunter. Hunter will include thoughts on what to include. But disclosures about the carrier's obligation to continue providing landline service, that seems important. Right?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: So if they consider a green line at that one?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I don't know. I think that's a Maria question.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: I think fiber's landline is a It's a hardwired connection. Okay. Yeah. It's not a cell.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And I understand what we're saying about the obligation to provide at the same price. So I believe I thought consolidated said At

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: no more than the price.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: At no more than the same price? Something like that. Okay.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Because yesterday actually stated that it's much cheaper than a conventional in line, so I don't wanna Oh.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Door. Right. Right. Okay. Good point. So Aetna

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: for that one.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Well, I remember her saying it's cheaper than, but I I wasn't catching the implication of, like, let's just be explicit for for all time and for future companies that it can be Aetna more than. So we're not

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Still opening up a door to a point where I don't know how we could word it to

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Let's ask Maria.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Maria will know how to do it. What's that, Ed?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: What?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Mikey. Mikey, no. What am thinking of? I'm having a really old memory.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: It's a Mikey was a serial Serial commercial.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Mikey That Mikey tried.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That's right. But but didn't Mikey know everything?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Not go far here.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Anyway, sorry. Thanks, Yeah. Thank you. You literally caught me at the verge of the radical. Right

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: at the end.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I appreciate the assist. Okay. On we go. At

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: the cost, no more than this. And we're gonna put in $2,026, or we where are gonna go now?

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: No. Just the Whatever the current cost is.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Whatever it is.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: Current price. The current cost at the time of transition. Yeah. But then they go to the PUC for rate increases from that.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Think it's just

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: It's the same same offered service.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Whenever it happens in your region

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: You know, whatever whatever the cost of those two plans are, we would just have to make sure that the staying with the copper doesn't that they're not charging anymore.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Actually, might be better than rather than say as prior prior to the transition offer prior to the transition. At the time of transfer. Well, I mean, no. Rather than it might be the same price as the service is is being replaced or something like that because the service price will increase over time. The basic phone line service. Right? Or just draw a phone line, and that's

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: what you're making. Yeah. Alright.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Maria will be listening to this, and she can hear that. Then then I got a little lost in number five. Does it? That might be a I I think what we were getting at here was making if I remember this correctly, it is making sure that customers know when they transition to fiber that they might they're gonna need they're gonna want a backup battery.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: In the event of a power outage.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: In the end of a power outage.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Cordless phones won't work.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Cordless phone won't work. Etcetera. You may need battery backup, period. And then I I think we had gotten out of our wheelhouse on availability, costs, installation procedures. I think we went way overboard on that.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Yeah. So the battery backup, it's just for the ONT. It's for

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yes.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Nothing else, the phone and everything. So

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: Yep. No. It's for Internet too, I believe.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: We're not talking about Internet in this belt. We can't. I'm talking about No. No.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: No. I'm I'm just yeah. Alright. I was yeah. I actually had fitting, but it it brought the whole cable fiber right into the house to the white box and then made the conversion somehow to go to the white landline connection, and that and that installer did say, you can buy a battery pack up from or you can buy them. You when the power's out, it is

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. So you knew, and they informed you, and we just want to memorialize how important that notification is. Without getting into availability cost procedures. Yes. That's way out on thin ice there. Yep. Okay. Then we just wanted to make sure people know that we have consumer protection rules. And, you know, a lot of this stuff I I think it's why when we were talking with Consolidated yesterday, I I I could be wrong. I'm imagining a lot of this information being pretty brief, pretty clear, not pages and pages of information. You know? Vermont has consumer protection rules that do x, y, and z for more information go to. So so I don't have any thoughts there. And

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: they're already providing notice.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Right.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: So forth. They've got most of it written.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: I think Sarah's concerned about, hey, the FCC's already approved it. Okay. You make a few changes. You add a few things. You ask them to take a look at it. Did not seem I don't know how much of a pain in the neck they are to deal with, but did not seem like as big of a problem as

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: she sounded like.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Then contacted food. It's a no brainer. And then DPS could say, oh, you forgot about this.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: Sure.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: In your little list in the bill. Yep. K. Then I started wondering whether I I would really like to hear from Hunter on the reports that we envisioned because I I don't know how useful they are or whether we need to delete them or fix them or what. But I I again kind of lost its thread on that.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: I just need to make

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: this more useful. Yeah. Let me use what Hunter said. Is it really helpful for us to know how many purchased a battery backup? I I don't find the usefulness in that information. Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I'm not really sure. That was definitely Laura's, you know, suggestion. And so I I would like to hear from, again, from DPS on whether this is helpful and what they would do with it.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: So interesting to

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: ask What we would do with it.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Conversation with FX after the after our meeting, and we asked was we were talking about this issue. He said that EC survivor provides the battery backup and also comes out to the contact they can tell on their end of the system the condition of the battery, whether the battery is refusing to get. Yeah. Is whether the battery is running down or not, and they will proactively contact the customer and go out to the house to replace the battery. And they view that as an important customer service. So I don't know if we want to put it in here, but it's interesting the

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: different approach they're taking. So is that grant funded?

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: No. No. No. They're well, they they are getting some grants now, but they started entirely self funded. They raise money locally. And I think that'd

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: be a hard sell for a large company like that talking about.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Oh, well I'm not saying that we should require that. I'm just saying that as you're using that as an illustration of a different approach Yes. That would be a very good approach for companies that wanted to build company. Well,

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: I think you did.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: The utility, I think it was the Ennisburg Telephone or Franklin Telephone that came in last year said that they could they could tell the power company more about the outages than the power company knew themselves with their fiber layouts. But I talked to the gentleman privately from EC Fiber Yep. And he said 14 they only have 1,400 customers. So 1,400 customers is equivalent to a paper boy delivering the paper room versus publishing the paper that he that consolidated has to do. And so I think that would be a big outreach. I mean, consolidated customer service, and they're still gonna have to compete as other fibers come down the line. Yeah.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Just just

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. So we'll get some feedback on this first report, fix delete Enforcement. I'm on page five now. That is just referring people, I think, to penalties that are already there. Right? Maria explained that to us. I remember thinking that was fine. And then we're getting back into reports that we don't know if they're useful. On lines eight through 19 yeah, Mike?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Or Yeah.

[Barbara Neal (Executive Director, Enhanced 911 Board)]: Sorry. Rep.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Southworth? See on line 14, it starts to assess whether locations have access to facilities based fixed voice service that is line powered or a voice service offered by a commercial mobile radio service provider.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: What is that?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: I mean, they're gonna have two way radio in their house that's dependent on electricity and then the power outage. Does that work too? I I don't know if we're just getting too deep into the weeds. I

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: think we probably aren't.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Just

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: But, you know

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Base value, is to me, but I may be missing something.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: As may I. This does reference the e nine one one board's rule governing outage reporting requirements for originating carriers, all that compare just upon lines 10 through 12.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And she said that's town level data. Right?

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So I Yeah. I'm I'll be curious again. I'm supposed to be back on. I I'm not I'm not sure we need to direct the department to read a report published by the e nine one one board.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: They probably have.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: They probably already do. Okay. Alright. So TBD on that section. I've got it marked for possible. Okay. Let's see. And then consumer education and outreach.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: I mean,

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I wonder, again, I've got a hunter question. They've got a pretty great pretty decent web page already up and running. I I have a feeling it's I think Hunter said it was new. So I don't know if we expected more than that. Maybe we could get Hunter's thoughts on mean, so we've got customers are gonna be getting all this information presumably directly from the companies now multiple times. So we're going straight to the consumers, and we would be requiring that in statute, you know, for all time, for all companies, for all regions. So I don't know whether DPS feels like they need to do something beyond putting up this webpage, like posting it on front porch I I don't know what I don't really know what what would be next steps for DPS, so I think that would be something to have Hunter advise on. Do you guys see have you seen the webpage yet? It's pretty good.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: I have. Yeah.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: It's good. It is good. So

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I'm just gonna put necessary. Okay. Do department report. So, we're basically just asking DPS here to include in its already existing annual report to us how this is all going. And that just one time only in 2027, they will report on these two things. So, in general, every year they should report on this, including their existing report, information about how the transition is going statewide. I remember that's a permanent addition to the report, so they'd have to include a page

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: on this. And,

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: in the 2027 report only, we also want their thoughts on whether there should be a statewide program to help low income customers buy batteries and whether we should do anything more about this. Okay. Yeah. Rep.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Hunter actually yesterday during his testimony where he thought it would be a great program.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yes. In fact, I wrote down, great idea, but the data you're collecting in these reports won't help with that at all. But, yes, he did say it would be a great idea, so maybe they would have interesting information to provide us in that 2027 report about we think this would be great. I we should probably ask them how it should be funded.

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Then number two almost seems a little redundant because of number one. So if we get the report back to them, then we can, you know, look at some acting other, but I don't feel we need to have that with this bill at this point. Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So my follow-up tasks are to write to Maria and ask her to watch this conversation. And I actually now I'm feeling like it would be helpful to give Hunter a heads up that we had this conversation. And today? Well, I don't think so. Think Brittany and

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: Oh, he's on the phone. Maybe maybe he's. It might

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: be. Oh,

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: well, maybe he'll be back.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Yes.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. Okay. Still, well, let's tell him when we see him this afternoon, but I'll write to Maria. Okay. Right.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I like I know what we're doing. Yeah.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: So were were you aware, representative Bailey, that you were going from a copper connection to a voice over Internet connection when consolidated came in? Well, I

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: was trying to remember that. I don't remember getting nine pages, nine letters or whatever the whatever the number was she sent out. I got a massive amount of. You're going from going to Fidium. And maybe that's what they were using by notification that you can sign up for Fidium, they put the pricing on it, what it's gonna be for the three months of service. And then those, I get all kinds of don't know if that was what they were considering. Was there a notification to me? How long ago was it surgery? I mean Last. For Bailey? Last summer. So

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: that was prior to this happening.

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: So in paragraph two where it says all customers who use BOP, I kinda think it's gotta say something about all customers converting from copper to BOP. So I don't know if a customer knows. Pick up the phone. He gets the dial tone. I don't know. I mean, that's the extent of it. I think my family's involvement of whether or not the phone's working, whether it be portable phone they're using at the time the power's on or I'm over cable and I don't have battery backup. We have cell service. Excessive field. The areas that these people would be in converted are those areas that don't have their multiple Choices. Cell phones of the house. And Right. So that you go to the or the battery backup, somebody agreed not to use their cell phone till the power comes back on, keep one phone charged.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: You know, the old system, I had I had an old phone that just like you said,

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: the battery operated for the wireless don't work. You always got your power from the telephone company because the telephone company had voltage Right. To the. And in the old days, telephone company would go out and move from little houses on the side of the road. They'd move their generators from switch house to switch house or whatever they call the houses.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: But with the with our recent power outage, nothing for it. In my I guess, the the other day, you know,

[Rep. Michael "Mike" Southworth (Member)]: power outage. We're out of everything. Because I know that battery backup. I

[Rep. Christopher Howland (Member)]: think the cable company initially provided battery backup in the box you bought from them. But if somebody didn't wanna pay the $10 a month rental, went out and bought something else Right. They didn't know what they were buying or what they weren't buying.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Right. Well, that was good. I just gave Maria a heads up to watch his testimony. She probably already does or did. We'll, sounds like we can check-in with Hunter when he comes in this afternoon. So, we can go off live, and we are back at 01:00 with the youth climate lobby, and then we're gonna be meeting with DPS to talk about their budget and other requests. Okay?

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: An hour with the youths.