Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. Welcome back. House Energy and Digital Infrastructure. We are continuing to get caught up on the state of weatherization funding in Vermont. I'm rep Kathleen James from Bennington 4 District.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Oh, sorry. Scott Campbell from Saint John for Angus.

[Rep. Richard Bailey (Member)]: Richard Bailey, Lamoille two. Ms. Morrow, Windham Windsor, Bennington. Michael Southworth, Caledonia 2. Christopher Howland, Rutland Ford.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Dara Torre, Washington two.

[Rep. Bram Kleppner (Member)]: Bram Kleppner, Chittenden 13, Burlington.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. And in the room, visitors. I'm Nelly Marvel, senior adviser to the commissioner of Department for Children and Families. Great. Lily Sojourner, director of the office of economic opportunity within the Department for Children and Families.

[Lily Sojourner (Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: So No.

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Al Ganchak, director of the division of energy and efficiency resources at the Department of Public Service.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Alright. And our esteemed witness, over to you.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: I'm Jeff Wilcox, the weatherization director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, part of DCF. Right. For German Family.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Thanks for being here.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Sure. Welcome. So I put together, well, I kinda updated the the short presentation I gave here in October. Great. I'll do it fairly quickly and then have time for questions. I think it touches a bit on what you've asked for. So, I think it's we're just gonna, put her on the spot. She was gonna share it up there, but I'll start with

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: I I can share it if you'd like.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Oh, okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Thank you so much.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Thank you. Hey.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: We can wait till it's up.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Alright. Yeah. And we have five or six slides. Super. Gonna start with existing weatherization funding. This current state fiscal year, we call a program year. So program year '26, state fiscal year, same thing. This is There we go. Thank you. So currently, we're we're you Oh, sorry. Hold on. Oh, it's okay. So as I think you all know, we have six program providers who are out in the field every day doing the work that receive grants from us. So when I talk about we, that's they're out there doing some work. We provide the funding and the assistance and oversight. So currently, those agencies have four weatherization grants, separate weatherization grants. They have a state home weatherization assistance program fund grant, which is the used to be called the trust fund. That's the 2¢ per gallon tax. They have our Department of Energy annual or core grant that we've had for forty five years. And then they have this, kinda one time multi year, three to four year award from the Department of Energy, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, IIJA. Not a very flowing acronym, but that was previously the BIL, Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. They changed its name, recently. And then we have we're on our last six months of, the state fiscal recovery or ARPA funding. That'll all be utilized by June at the latest most agencies by the March. So, approximately 35% of that IIJ award, has been utilized. That grant performance has been extended through 06/30/2029 by the Department of Energy, but the funds won't last that long. We'll extend those in the next year and a half. So as I mentioned there, ahead of myself, we're a mixture of funding sources, those four that I talked about. And our to add in our statewide multi family agency, three d Thermal. They're part of Capstone. The local one to four unit WAP in in Central Vermont. They're utilizing ARPA funds currently through June, and then we're gonna need to transition them to other funding sources. So, yeah, the the ARPA ARPA funds have been really a priority in the last few years. We have we have $140,000,000. Originally, 45, then 40. That's what we've been putting out for our clients. Those, again, we'll spend it here. Not too long. Not too long.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And the period performance sorry. Just to go back. Period of performance, that means the money has to be spent.

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: Correct. Okay.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Yep. Their last month of performance, they report the fifteenth of the month, next month, but they can't have any more can't do any more work after that period. Okay. So funding levels anticipated. We're anticipating steady funding at the level we're at we're performing at now, which is about $22,000,000 and 1,300 units we weatherized. Last program year, state fiscal year '25, we did 900 some odd true one unit homes last year for low income Vermonters, which was the most we've ever done, which is really great because those folks I did. I do not have any other assistance. They don't have a a landlord or a building owner to ensure some modicum of building integrity. And we also did a lot of, rental units, two to four units and then five more, which three d thermal serves. So state fiscal year '27 through '29, our goal is to have similar level grant awards and goals for for the producing weather as units. But it's dependent very dependent on the IRA funding infrastructure reduction. Okay. The acronyms get to me. Inflation reduction. Reduction. Inflation reduction. I'm sorry. So this slide is is similar to October. There hasn't had not much has happened since October with the homes. We've been meeting with Department of Public Service to to continue to plan how we're gonna roll it out, but we're we're needing, approval of the the Hancock, modeling tool from Department of Energy, and we're awaiting for approval to launch from DOE. So we don't have that yet. Last I knew, none of none of the other states that are looking for it have had it since, the current administration came into presidency. So I have a question. Yeah. On the last slide, actually.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: You mentioned program years '27 to '29, similar goals are dependent on IRA funding. Are you at the moment budgeting for the IRA funding that was allocated, and we just don't know whether they're gonna pull it back. Is that is that Yeah.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: So we sorry. Cut you out.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Is that is that Yes.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: 29,000,000 is what DPS is wants to award us and plans to, and that's what we were talking about rolling out.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: In that three year period?

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: At least the three year period. That'll keep us at this level. There may be some funds after that, but through '29 is when we can stay at this level, 22 to $23,000,000, 1,300 homes served after those years is when those Right. South. Okay. Yeah. Just wanna clarify. There may be IRA funds left, but, you know, not enough to keep us at that level. Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So there are

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: And and and if the IRA goes away, then we're

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: If we don't have, yes, the IRA, things go downhill quicker, much quicker. Yeah. It's been a year and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: IRAs 29,000,000 homes? No.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Yes. Homes Okay. Is

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So right now, we don't there's there are not super alarming indicators about the $29.29000000 in homes. No.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: I think we're all pretty, staying positive and k. Feeling it will, but we're also nervous because we said that in October. Right. Nothing's happened since.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: That's good to know. I hope to

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: have this. 29,000,000 or 23,000,000? 29,000,000. Yeah. 2,300 homes. No. I didn't say 23. I I don't didn't put a number of homes with that. 1,300 homes a year is kinda what we're the level we're at now and what we'd like to stay at until funding changes. You know, we don't wanna Oh, there's ramp up and head to a cliff. You know, we're doing well at this level. Good quality work. And, so 1,300 homes is kind of the the number we've been at. So, yeah, I think I got everything on that slide there. Less than money that I'm ever strengthening. Great again. Homer home repair and vermiculite funds. Yes. So currently, the ARPA funds are are coming to an end. We've got, like, three, four months left of home repair and vermiculite funds from that ARPA award, Those are really important funds for our clients because they keep them from being deferred, allows them to get weatherized, as well as addresses significant issues in their home, like a leaky roof or, a wet basement or knob and tube wiring. There are things we need to address to then their home. And if they have vermiculite, they've got one inch of insulation typically, so very little insulation value. So we're really adamant we wanna continue doing that. We just don't have the the the funding after these ARPA funds end. We will have $200,000 a year of DOE, weatherization readiness funds to to use for those home repairs and vermiculite remediation. But we've been spending, like, 900,000 a year on home repairs and 300,000 on vermiculite, so that's nowhere near enough.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And that's the money that at this point anyway is being proposed to be kind of restored and even increased a little bit in the DRP process that Peter was just talking to us about. I believe so.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Okay. Yeah. So did you have another question? No. What are we doing? This is my last slide. Our last slide. You know, we're continuing to track and assess spending across all funding sources. We wanna make sure the ARPA funds are all spent out appropriately before those funds can no longer be spent. You know, continuing to be in touch with our Department of Energy program officers, project officers. They've been really supportive. They have changed, in the last year a number of times, but the our current project officer orders are really helpful. We're working with efficiency Vermont Department of Public Service on potential future funding sources for those home repairs in Vermiculi, like you just mentioned. Continuing to provide training and technical assistance of our agencies, you know, especially through the training center we opened up in Barrie, and continue to provide technical assistance daily, and we we do the monitoring of the program. 10% of the completed units are folks are out, talking with clients, looking at all the completed work, doing our own testing to make sure the work was done properly. So that all stayed the same. And, yeah, that's all I had to present. Happy to answer any questions.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: We're waiting for an invitation to go to the view center. Oh. Yeah. Open invitation.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Me know.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That'd be great. When are when are crews there learning or when are

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: is it open? It's it's open as we have trainings. We have a calendar. We have a website. Okay. We're happy to share the website address and, trainings. We're doing typically four a month now. That funding ends February 28. Department of Energy Enhancement and Innovation Grant was a two month $2,000,000 award that we we got, and we've been using the last two, three years. It ends February 28, so we're working on a transition plan, to continue those efforts. We will only be able to pay for the low income training of our staff Okay. Or our networks. And Ever Blue is the operator. They are working with, all the partners in Vermont to try to, you know, make it sustainable. Other arrangements with efficiency Vermont, etcetera, to continue training for those folks, you know, the home performance contractors, etcetera. So any ideas you have on, other partners or sustainability plans, please feel free to pass them our way.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Great. Yeah. Any more questions for Jeff?

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: I'm just curious. Do you source materials for weatherization in, like, a big order that you're different? Yeah. You know it's To save money. Right?

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: So we we follow procurement standards for all the work we do. And so the agencies are required to to get the the best price for the the outcome for the services, contractors, as well as materials, anything they do. We have been talking with them about doing some bulk procurement. One of the agencies has an individual who's done that before for the school systems. So we're trying to do our homework and then, they would work together, to kinda put out that type of thing to to get a better price with large quantities. As we install a ton of, more than a ton of cellulose insulation. Yeah. Thank you. Spray foam and stuff like that. Bathroom, Panasonic bathroom fans go into every home. So, but they do, they are they aren't allowed to just go to their their neighborhood, hardware store and buy a bat. They have to make sure they're they're getting the doing their procurement, open and fair, source of goods and services. Thank you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Anybody else? Alright. Jeff, thank you so much.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Sure.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And we are I think we have our next and final witness for the day, Alpida. Melissa, are you here?

[Melissa Bailey (Director, State Energy Office, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Melissa: Hi, Hi. Good afternoon. I guess I'm batting cleanup today. Melissa Bailey, I'm the director of the State Energy Office at the Vermont Department of Public Service. I wish I had could be there in person. I had planned to, but I am homesick and trust that you prefer I keep my germs with me at home. I have been with the Public Service Department for about four years, currently in my role as state energy office director for about two. And prior to that, I led our efficiency and energy resources team, for two years. Started my career in energy with Efficiency Vermont, back in 2003. So I have been working on weatherization on and off since that time, and I am on the steering committee for the EIA on weatherization at scale action team that Neil referenced earlier. I will note that in the room, do have Alec Anczak, our current director of efficiency and energy resources. So I'm gonna speak primarily to federal funding at the department, and Alec can respond if there are more broad questions about thermal programs and policy and, the department's approach there. So, by way of reminder for the committee, the Public Service Department represents the public interest in regulated utility matters and conducts comprehensive energy planning for the state. We are also designated by the Department of Energy as the state energy office for Vermont. And in that capacity, we receive annual as well as one time funds from DOE. So within PSD, the state energy office is the division that is responsible for administering federal energy and climate related funding from the federal government. So this has included the significant infusions of ARPA money that Peter referenced earlier allocated specifically for weatherization through the f y twenty two and '23 budgets. And, again, those those funds are currently, you know, on the street and and will be expended fully expended by the end of this year. And we've also received significant infusions of of money under the infrastructure investment and jobs act and inflation reduction act. So, appreciate the invitation. Chair James asked that I specifically speak to the status of federal funds for weatherization. I will do my best to provide some clarity around where things stand right now with the federal government amidst kind of the continuing uncertainty around all things related to federal funding. I think I can be pretty quick because many of these topics have been touched on by your other witnesses. So, again, by way of context, the ARPA funds, Peter Walk discussed, currently being deployed. That's 18,000,000 allocated to Efficiency Vermont. It was initially 35,000,000 specifically for moderate income weatherization. Again, that program has been expanded to include low income, but but, again, the initial intent was really to have those funds focus on moderate income households and kind of recognizing that that was a hole or a gap in Vermont's thermal program landscape several years back, that folks who essentially weren't eligible for low income programs and didn't have the means to participate in market rate programs were kind of being left behind. Next on the horizon, of course, are the inflation reduction act funds IRA passed in August 2022, which feels like a very long time ago, contained two important programs in the efficiency space. So the home energy rebate programs have two subprograms, the home efficiency rebates. We call that the HOMS program. Some folks call it HER, but HER sounds a lot like here, and that gets confusing. So, again, home efficiency rebates are we refer to as the HOMS program, and that is the 29,000,000 that Jeff was just speaking about. Those funds are intended to improve the overall efficiency of residences. And, again, of course, that's a national program. The other component of the home energy rebate programs is the home electrification and appliance rebate program. Here is the acronym there, promoting electrification, cold climate heat pumps, heat pump water heaters, stoves, etcetera. DOE issued its program guidance in 2023. We did our applications in 2024. Long and short of it is, Vermont received its homes award approval from DOE in September 2024, and that was a full award. There was no indication that we would not be able to move forward with deployment of those funds. Although, as Jeff mentioned, we do need final green light from DOE in order to actually launch programs. Here, I'll just clarify that award was received in December 2024, but it was a conditional conditional awards at DOE are essentially on hold. So we're not gonna focus on the HEAR program right now. That has been on hold since January. We did do some program design work there, but, again, that's all on hold at this point. I'll focus on homes. Again, we intend to grant that full amount. That's the 29,000,000 to OEO to expand the weatherization assistance program. We essentially when the guidance came out from DOE reading the intent of this program, which is really to help lower income households improve the efficiency of their homes. We knew we had an existing program in Vermont that was working well to meet those program goals and wanted to leverage that to deliver, you know, fossil fuel savings as well as cost savings to customers as well as those indoor air quality improvements that are come from weatherization jobs. So, again, we, you know, agree with the way Neil characterized it. Weatherization's a no regrets policy that we need to really invest invest fully in. So we are I I think we'd characterize it as nearly ready to launch. As Jeff said, we are waiting to get I guess there are two potential barriers to launch, and the first is that software approval that Jeff just mentioned. We the the the software provider that OEO uses called Hancock, that's who they use for energy modeling for the existing weatherization assistance program. We were hopeful that because that software is already being used, we would be able to get a speedy approval to use it in this context for the inflation reduction act programs, but that has not been the case. It has been taking a while. Hancock reports that they are actively working with DOE to get to secure approval, but, again, that is not yet in hand. Beyond that, we've met all of the DOE program requirements for launch. So we are anticipating joining, you know, a a growing group of other states that are in essentially a ready to launch cohort and have not yet been greenlit by by DOE to actually draw down funds for rebates. We have had some conversations with with DOE around this. We've actually had the same project officer throughout the transition of the administration, and we've had good responsiveness from DOE. But on this issue of of when the timeline by which we might expect approval, DOE has not been very forthcoming. Essentially, I spoke with the head of the home energy rebate programs at DOE right before the holidays, and she reported that DOE is still undergoing a program review. So folks may remember back in the early part of 2025, there was a flurry of executive orders, etcetera. Office of Management and Budget issued a memo saying all agencies must review all of their programs for consistency with administration priorities. That is the program review that is still underway at DOE. We don't have a firm end date for when that will be completed, but they're going through program by program and essentially issuing a thumbs up, thumbs down for weather programs, you know, essentially meet consistency with administration priorities. Folks may remember that back in, I think, October, there were a series of DOE grants that were canceled. Homes in here were not included in that list of cancellations. But for this this program, again, the the review is still underway. So we are in a posture of uncertainty and, you know, cautiously optimistic that the funds will flow. Roughly, I I think it's about a dozen states across the country were able to launch their programs before the change in administration at the federal government. So roughly a dozen states have programs on the ground for here, and another handful have homes programs being implemented. So we're hopeful that these that the program overall will not be canceled, but that's kind of the latest news that we have to report. So, you know, in the interim, we're just, you know, consistent with colleagues at at BGS and efficiency rheumatologist report. We're looking at ways to avoid a funding cliff for weatherization funds, looking at where gaps can be filled and funds can be smoothed in the short term to keep funding stable, specifically for OEO and the low income weatherization assistance program. As Peter referenced, there's this approach of taking some of the TEPF efficiency dollars and and using some of those to essentially fill the gap from declining federal funds, specifically in the moderate and low income space. RGGI revenues have been higher than previously. We expect that to to carry forward at least for several years. And, again, negotiating the demand resources plan preceding budget with efficiency Vermont currently. I think the department proposal is for slightly more money to go to low income weatherization than the EBT proposal. But, again, we're working through that process, and we're optimistic that those funds will be put to the best use starting in 2027. But, again, as your other witnesses have said, that those those TEPF funds will not make up for the decline in federal funds, and and there will be a funding gap. And that that gap will be significantly exacerbated if the home's money doesn't come through. And the only other note, I'll I'll just make there's been a lot of conversation about the pre preweatherization work, the work for home repairs that are oftentimes needed before a weatherization project can be completed, and the home's dollars cannot be used for that purpose either. So regardless of whether we get the home's money to do actual weatherization projects, there's still a need for home repair funding. So I think I'll stop there and happy to try to answer any questions the committee might have.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I had a question. I just wanted to make sure it sounds like you and Peter have both said in, you know, essentially the same thing that the the DRP process with Efficiency Vermont and the department is, you know, going pretty well. And I can you remind me of the timeline on that? I Peter said at one point that that funding would be it's the money to start next January. Right? So what what are the next steps with that?

[Melissa Bailey (Director, State Energy Office, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Yeah. Sure. The the next performance period, again, you said, will start January 2027. I think I may punt this question to Alec in the room there since he's our point on DRP.

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Sure. I don't know how granular you want me to get, but basically, we have, you know, two two competing plans that are part of the PUC right now. I know. And the directionally, I think they're as others have said, they're pretty well aligned. And I think, you know, particularly on the weatherization question, you know, we all agree that we need some kind of contingency plan with a ramp rate that allows us to have some flexibility. There's some reserved funds. There's potential future revenues that may forecast or looking a little rosier than maybe we thought. And so factoring all that in, we think we've come up with a pretty good ramp rate. So over the next two to three months, we'll hone that into sort of a concrete singular vision for what it needs to look like. And then that will get debated in front of the PUC through like a contested process.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Process. Okay. And

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: then after that, you know, there's fine tuning, and I'm sure there'll be some more back and forth, but there needs to be a concrete plan in place from which we can have those really big up negotiations. So that I think is supposed to be done probably by the February.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. And then it has to be approved by?

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Eventually the PUC will approve the final plan.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: By next fall or something.

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Sometime '14.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. That's what I figured. I thought that might be a good answer. Okay.

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: There's no hard for that part. Okay.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: So you mentioned there's two competing plans.

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Currently, there's the department's vision, and then there's the utility's vision.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: How far apart are those?

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Well, like I said, I think in terms of total spend on weatherization and directionally, you know, that contingency plan, we're perfectly aligned with that. I think it's really sort of a question of, you know, who gets to spend what money where on which particular programs. That's those details have yet to be worked out.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Okay. So they're fairly close.

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Fairly close. Absolute terms, we're perfectly aligned. We we both wanna spend all the money. We wanna spend it at the same rate, but where and how it will spend, we still have a

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: little bit of gumption. Good. Great. Thanks.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. It's

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: promising. I had another question for Melissa. Yeah. Also. You went very fast. And so I I missed the number for, first of all, HEAR program that you're calling out, the HEAR program stands again for home electric assistance. Yeah,

[Melissa Bailey (Director, State Energy Office, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: sorry to rush through. Home electrification and appliance rebates, and here would also be 29,000,000 So both pots of money would $29,000,000

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: each.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. And Okay. The status of both of these programs, the homes and the here, is still waiting for the final go from the company.

[Melissa Bailey (Director, State Energy Office, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: I think I would clarify that a little bit. Like, here, they will not engage with us or talk to us. So that's been on hold for about a year. I mean, we we did some preliminary planning with here where we would offer heat pump programs for low and moderate income households and support new construction, but that's really on hold. Homes, I would like to say, is probably a little bit of a rosier picture. They've continued to engage DOE, they being DOE, Department of Energy. Throughout this year, our program manager our project manager has continued to deliver supplemental documents and program designs to DOE, and we've gotten they're staying away from the word approval, but they're saying these documents are satisfactory. You have no more work to do on them. No additional edits are required. So I would say HOMES has been moving along slowly, and we really are just waiting on DOE to do its big picture program review. Essentially, the message we've gotten from DOE is homes as a program nationally will either continue or be canceled. Not that Vermont's homes application may or may not get approved. So I hope that distinction is is helpful.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Got it. Okay. Thank you.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Alright. Thank you. Other

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: questions, comments, reflections?

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: All right. Oh, yeah, Dara. I'm just curious if we have any regional waterization targets? Or that's for whoever has demand. We don't have any

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Do mean within the state? Yeah. You want

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: to

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: talk about funding allocation?

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: With our funds, we have an allocation formula by the five regions, that we have we follow DOE rules on it. It's based on heating degree days, population, low income population, things like that. But, you know, so CVOEO up in the Northwest Part of Vermont, they receive 24% of the 100%, and the others are like 19% plus or minus equals a 100. So they're all pretty similar. CVOEO, the larger population part of the state, a little bit larger.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: And if one region was just trending a little hotter than another, is there any way to to spread the money between?

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Yes. So, our office is really adamant that we need to serve the state based on that allocation formula, so we do all we can to support the agencies that are struggling to to spend their funds, and we have had some other agencies that were running hot help those that couldn't induce some units in that areas that agency's area. So we're doing our best to serve, each geographic area based on the allocation formulas. But we can You have a lot we have some flexibility if there's underspending to move some funds to another agency to to get make sure it's spent, whether at the homes.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay, great. Thank you all for being here, Melissa. Feel better.

[Melissa Bailey (Director, State Energy Office, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah, appreciate your time. And we don't have any more testimony today, but Joe, maybe we could stay live just for a minute and just make sure everybody's seen the agenda for the rest of the week. Can you pull it up or not? Yeah. Great. And thanks to everybody who came in today.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Yep. So

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I want to just talk about, Joe has done a great job with you in trying to help us. Thanks everybody.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Have a

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: good day.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Make sure that we had, you know, some substantive stuff to dive into this week. We still have a few little holes, but we're we're doing okay, I think. Yeah. And then we've started to put together some ideas for next week too that aren't in a format that we can share yet, but I can tell you guys what we're what we're trying to do next week and then just the broader, like, what we're trying to do period with these first couple weeks. So today, we've as you know, we've talked about weatherization. I felt like that was a topic that we spent some time on at the end of the session last year and that Laura and Scott and I spent some time on over the summer. The reason being that last year it sounded like at the end of the session we were hearing that there was gonna be a huge and abrupt funding cliff and that programs might be grinding to a halt. And I wanted to be sure that as a committee that if that was the case and if we as a panel wanted to try to do something or advocate for money that we were ready to roll. And I'm actually really glad that we had those conversations over the summer because it turned out to be a lot more complicated to pull together all the numbers and all the stats and all the information that we saw today than I think anybody had thought. And so I think we saved a lot of time. If we requested this testimony starting today, it could have been a while. So as far as I'm concerned, I don't think I need to hear any further testimony on weatherization funding. Happy if you guys disagree or you wanna take some kind of an action or continue looking into it, but I just wanted to make sure we came in, you know, came in fast with with that and level set on what I thought was gonna be a much bigger problem. So anything you guys wanna hear in the future on weatherization funding or hear quickly or hear next week, If you didn't get your questions answered, let me know. Yeah.

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: Well, I think we're all consistent. There's no immediate crisis, but there's a booming problem in funding for weatherization. Yeah. And I wonder what role we should play in thinking about what we do about that.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I think yes.

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: Sorry. Was just going say, if the answer is that we want to pull in more tax dollars, then they gotta come from somewhere.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Yeah. Then

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: the choice would be and everyone else. We have

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: to sort through. But there's a

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: and and that may be a a looming gap that other committees are not yet aware of. Yep. And will require some cross committee coordination to figure out whether there's something we can do for you, what the best solution is, and all those things.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I didn't introduce a bill around this. I don't know if other committee members did or are or something is coming our way. And, but if we have, you know, if there's appetite on the committee to try to start taking testimony on where we could raise more money, you know, that would come from a new source, that would phase in over the next, you know, couple of years or maybe not start until a future year, happy to schedule testimony. Yeah. There is a bill on the wall. Is it the general benefit charge. Yeah. Increasing the

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: Who's responsive?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Is it Morrow wiki? Mike. Yeah.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Yeah. It's Morrow wiki, h two two four. Three.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: One thing we could do if we wanna keep just learning about this and thinking about it, PUC in, I think, several different places has recommended a thermal benefits charge. They recommended it to the legislature, I think in the clean heat check back, but please don't quote me on That's And I think they recommended again in the act one forty two report. And we are having they are coming in to present the act one forty two report. Joan, we get them locked down yet? That would be

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: I don't

[Joe (Committee Assistant)]: think so for that. I think we're waiting on them to figure out who

[Megan (Committee Staff)]: they wanted to talk about the report still.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. Well, just getting to the broader, like, are we doing these first couple weeks? What I've what I've been trying to do, and I know I've talked to everybody individually, so none of this should be new to you guys. But what I was trying to do is make sure in the first couple weeks that we take testimony on any like emerging, urgent oversight issues that we kind of left dangling at the end of the year or that happened over the summer and fall. So, in my mind, that was weatherization funding. We had had a formal request for an oversight hearing from R. Sibilia about consolidated communications, Fidium Fiber, and its approval by the FCC to discontinue its legacy voice lines, its copper. And so that was a it's a worthy topic anyway, but rep Sibilia did make a formal request to, like, hold an oversight hearing on this. So that actually, we're kicking that work off tomorrow. So we're gonna start hearing from, Palladium, about the retirement of their copper wires and how that worked and what notice they gave and how the process is supposed to work and how Vermonters have been impacted. Yeah.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: I would just note it's consolidated. Phytium is a brand name for their I Well,

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I've had a bit of a confusing back and forth. Yes.

[Joe (Committee Assistant)]: Followed the communication with them. They've been saying do not use consolidated. Call them Phytium.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: I believe the application to the FCC was for consolidated. Consolidated, general name.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: We can ask about that, Doctor. Morrow.

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: Awesome.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So on the three oversight things, I was thinking weatherization funding, what's going on with consolidated slash fitting on retiring the And we're gonna do some hearings next week, I think, on the fiscal health of our municipal utilities, which is kind of an oversight response from our panel to, all the news that we've been reading about with Hyde Park. So, yeah.

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: What about ADS and getting rolling on, you know, the reporting that we're Yeah. Off? I mean, I kinda like

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: to find out where they're at.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So I reached out to secretary Riley Hughes, and she can't remember whether she preferred not to come in or was asked not. They like to wait until the governor's budget address, basically. So the day after the governor's budget address, ADS has already booked, and they are coming in to present their annual report, the one that we kind of beefed up and worked on last year. They're gonna walk us through the hopefully new and improved or upgraded ECMO dashboard. So they're basically gonna come and present the work that we asked them to do last year in our bill. Proceeding that though, we're gonna have a joint hearing with senate institutions next week to do kind of a job talk handoff. So, Laura and I served over the summer and fall on the joint information technology oversight committee. And we did hear, testimony throughout the summer and fall on some of these big ticket IT modernization projects. And so we're gonna do a joint hearing with institutions. Rob Plunkett, who is the chair of JITOC this summer and fall, and I guess remains the chair of JITOC, is gonna kinda give us an overview about here's what JITOC did, here here's what we accomplished, here might be some next steps. And then because that wasn't until next week, I asked Lisa to come in. She coming in tomorrow? Thursday. Thursday? Snow. Yes. I asked Lisa to come in from JFO, so sort of our consultant. Oh, yeah. And she is gonna walk us through all the projects that she's currently that we fired her to follow. So, hopefully, that answers that question. So the whole ADS thing, it's I wouldn't say it's backwards, but we're doing it in the order we can do it. So Lisa was available. She's gonna come in. She'll probably tell us about a few projects that we wanna then take more direct testimony on. That gets us to week after, and secretary Hughes will be coming in to present the annual report in the. So I felt like that was a good start on the state IT stuff. Yeah.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Just And, madam chair, I think I've mentioned this to you before, but just in terms of utility health, I just wanna make sure that we don't limit that on the. Yes.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: We'll see you. We are hearing from We have invitations out, and next week isn't really locked in yet. But going back to that oversight topic of municipal utility help. Joe, who did we invite? I'm sorry. We invited

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: We have

[Joe (Committee Assistant)]: chair McNamara. We have commissioner Johnson. We invited Ken Nolan and Scott Johnston.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: That's right. So we're starting with commissioner Johnson from DPS, Chair McNamara from PUC, Ken Nolan, who's the General Manager of VPSA, and then Scott Johnston, he is the General Manager of Morrow Silk Power and Light, or Morrowstown Power and Light, and he's the current acting manager of Hyde Park. So that was kind of a start on the municipal how are municipal utilities doing? The question that I posed, and you guys will be able to pose all your own questions, was how is the fiscal health of our municipal utilities monitored? Who oversees their fiscal work? Is there anything more that anybody needs to make sure that something like Hyde Park doesn't happen again? Are there more resources? Is does DPS need anything? I I don't know the answers to any of these questions, but it seemed important for our committee to kinda dive in. So that's coming up next week too. And then So, madam chair? Yeah. Sorry. So and and we have two coops also was my point. Yes. And we've invited coops in.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Okay. Great.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I think that's gonna be because you're out of town next week. Yeah. And we wanna I know you don't wanna miss any of these hearings. We have invited WEC and VEC to come in the week after. Great.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Right.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And I know that they're gonna wanna clarify that they're different from munis, and they have a different governance structure and a different way of operating. And what I explained to them was that as as long as we're learning about this, why we learn how all the utilities do their fiscal oversight. So we'll hear from the munis with that group of witnesses that I mentioned to you. We'll hear from our co ops, the week after. And what is that? I I guess that leaves GMP.

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: GMP. Which

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I won't bite them in as well. So and I'm sorry. I didn't have any of this prepared. I'm just now I'm just in my mind. So we've got municipal utilities. We've got what's going on with consolidated and copper wire, we have weatherization, which I think if we want to discuss or talk about a thermal benefits charge, There's going to be material in that Act 142 report. And that brings me to the topic of reports, which is that I think it's important that we have at least a presentation on every report that's been submitted to our committee. That was something we never really had a chance to get a But total handle on last this year, we have some reports, some that are annual reports, some that we specifically requested. And I want to make sure that even if all we do is say, wow, that's very interesting, thank you for that work, or if legislation blows out of it, or we all hear it and something happens like what just happened here, we hear the testimony and think we should do something. There's something here for us to do. So, we are systematically inviting everybody in to present the reports that they worked on. So, ANR issued a pretty substantive report on greenhouse gas emissions reporting that was published on December 15. Secretary Moore and Jane are coming in next week to present that to us. And I do have a bill drafting request in the works that would just take what ANR recommends that we do and turn it into a bill. I haven't signed off on it yet that would come to us at some point. Yeah.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Is there a a list somewhere of reports due to our committee? There is.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: There is. Yeah. It's not quite as handy as I would love to the actual report. Be. I mean, so there's go ahead.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Yeah. There's on the on our legislative website, there is a reports link which you can go to, and it as the reports are produced, they're linked right there, and it tells you where they're going.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: But he's talking about what's coming. It's not a what's coming.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: It's a here's what you got.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: What's coming is I have found to be a little harder Yeah. To find.

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: Yeah. Well, both are that was helpful.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. But and then there's also just a so on our website, you'll see a ton of reports. There are quite a few that came into us last year. Some we heard, some we didn't. Happy for anybody to look through that tab and say we never heard this report. Get them in. That would be great and actually really helpful. And then as they've been coming to us, Megan and I together have been trying to make sure that they get posted and sent to you guys. But there haven't been a ton of them. But the big ones so far are the A and R report, so that will come with testimony and at some point a drafting request I put in. The Act one forty two report, Chair McNamara at the PUC said they are happy to come in and present it, but they haven't decided who's gonna present yet, so we don't have that schedule. And do you was there a drafting request? Yes. And

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: I think I have a deadline of January 15, so I was hoping they could come in before then. Okay.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Why don't we bump that up? Joe, maybe we could reach out to chair McNamara again and say we really need to get them in.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Okay. And

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: then there's that H two two four. So in my mind, I'm trying to think of reports and whether we have a drafting request that I know about or a bill that we already have that's related to it. There is there was a report on from the

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: Building

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Energy Code Working Group.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Which you will hear more about. That you wanna know. We will

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: hear more about Thursday. That again is posted on our website. I think I sent it to everybody. And if I didn't, I apologize. My intent was to get every report to you guys within twenty four hours. I I took a lot of time off around the holidays. I know I didn't get everything out right away. But so Scott's gonna present that report, and we're gonna take testimony on that report. There was a thermal energy network report that I don't have scheduled yet, but I there was a

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: And there's a there's a bill about that as well.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. And there's a bill about that. There's a state energy management plan SEMP Yep. Report, I think, that I haven't reached out to anybody about yet.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Mhmm. I think that's usually an annual plan.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. And then we're continuing our oh, single plan. Last year's big solar bill that we passed. So that that the PUC did the work that we asked them to do. They had a workshop. They worked with the they worked with the department. They worked with the solar industry. They worked with all the advocates. And hours. Which I think is I was happy anyway. Yeah. They came up with a consensus, updated definition of single plant that everybody signed off on. So we actually have consensus work coming to us on our our request that they provide us with an updated definition of single plant for citing those, you know, bigger solar arrays in places where it makes sense. And we're hearing from them on Friday. We have a few little gaps this week. I actually, I'm pleased with that all worked out in the end. I at one point, this week wasn't booked out at all. Thank you again, Joe.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: That's bill entros. Right?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And I'm starting to plug in bill intro. So we'll do the same thing we did this year last year, this year, which is that every bill that comes to our committee, the sponsor will have, fifteen minutes to just come in and say this is what this bill is. And so we got three bills today and their sponsors will be doing it tomorrow. And we'll just keep that up. We'll try to keep on top of them. Joe, did I miss anything big? Okay. And then

[Joe (Committee Assistant)]: I just got sent another report. I don't know if that's relevant right now. Act one twenty one from DEC about dam safety, their dam safety programs.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I don't know if that's

[Joe (Committee Assistant)]: I don't know if

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: that's supposed to go

[Joe (Committee Assistant)]: to us. I might send that to

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: It was

[Various Members (diarization merge)]: sent to If there

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: are hydro Sent to me. Yeah. If there are hydro Yeah. With that dam. I think there are 11 of them left on the or something like this. This.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Okay. Well, you can forward it to the committee and post it.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Yep.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: And again, I I just wanna repeat. If if there are reports I did my best last year, but there was a there were a blizzard of reports last year as a new committee. I know they're all on our website. I don't think we

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: There's a lot of them looking at.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. And some of them we may I I you know, I know I'm I'm probably not alone. I don't don't think we wanna spend the whole first half of the session going over the reports we heard last year. But is there any of a particular interest that we didn't spend any time on? You know, because we just didn't get to it. Please tell me. And then my thought was that then, you know, after we had had all that grounding testimony the first two weeks, we'll start working on bills. You know, I've I've tried to stay in close touch with committee members to find out what bills you're introducing, what bills you wanna make sure we get to, and we'll probably start with the ones that are related to some of these reports we're hearing and go from there. I I I don't have a concrete plan beyond that grounding testimony as a group. I it's very different this year. We were all here last year. So I just wanna make I wanna make sure we get to all or most of the bills that that our own committee members have taken time to work on on the summer and fall. So I guess I'd say those are my top those bills are probably my top priority.

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: Yeah. Dara? When do you think the BAA memo will need to be done?

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. I haven't heard anything about the BAA. So who's our Who are who are our liaisons to do we remember who our liaisons are to approach? I think Harrison was

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Oh, good one. Yeah. I was I was you

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: What? Yep.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Just to see. And we lost Harrison.

[Alec Anczak (Director of Efficiency & Energy Resources, Vermont Department of Public Service)]: So I

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: don't know who's gonna

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: I think we're really familiar. Just forgetting his name. No.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: I believe it was Marty because Marty's got a lot

[Rep. Dara Torre (Clerk)]: of Yes. Spoke with him last night.

[Rep. Christopher Morrow (Member)]: Your experience.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: Yeah. Well, John will be the same. And then, yeah, maybe it will be. But I I actually I've been meaning to check-in on BAA to see if there are requests in BAA that relate to our areas of jurisdiction that we're gonna have to take testimony and write a letter. And then at some point, yeah, the the budget. We'll have to start working on our budget letter. That's that's the plan. So, just be in be in touch. You know, I I'm always here, obviously, and any you know, when when we're working on stuff, if there's testimony you wanna hear, if there's a witness you wanna invite, just let me know. And we will invite them and hear from them.

[Jeff Wilcox (Weatherization Director, Office of Economic Opportunity, DCF)]: Alright.

[Rep. Kathleen James (Chair)]: So we're tomorrow whatever time. Nine. Nine? Okay. Alright. Joe, we can go up live.

[Rep. R. Scott Campbell (Vice Chair)]: Awesome.