Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: We're live.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Alright. This is the h nine fifty five conference committee. We're back after a break. Talk and thereabouts. We're I think to go back to maps. Right?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yes. With? John Adams. So,

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: you know, one of the just to say it. One of the differences in approaches is that we focus on you focus on SUs and maintaining SU boundaries. We focus on districts. That's just the fundamental difference in approach to this.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah. I would say that SU boundaries were one of the things we focused on. And keeping those structures intact, including districts, within those SU boundaries. The other thing was ABI and trying not to make these merger groupings too large. We also focused on where kids go to CTE, and we focused on just geographic issues.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Yeah, and we So we focused on districts taking testimony, getting a sense of where people wanted to be, and that was kind of what was. Put it down, just to put I'm it on a curious about how do I'm not arguing the point, we just did that.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: How do you determine where somebody wants to be without doing like a full survey of the people who- What

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: we did was we put we offered opportunity to testify for months, and we actually had the school board solicitation twice send out an email blast, and we got a lot in. That's how. Yeah. Yeah. Alright.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I mean and I would just say I I would just say same. We had our maps up and available for quite some time to look at, and also we got input as well. But we also use the other criteria. We've talked about how we don't want school districts of a certain size that are too big. There are just some geographic challenges, such as where the lake is, such as the size of the Northeast Region. That was what we all permit to say.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: That's what we did. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay. So do we wanna just put up the senate groupings and look at ADM? Is that a worthwhile venture for folks to sort of see? Oh, didn't realize that that made that. Or, which we can do, I've got a few specific questions. I have a few specific suggestions that are relatively easy. Based off the Senate map?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Yeah, well Easier though?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Yeah, potentially.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I would say, just a couple of small things. The Wells and Middletown Springs things that you have there, I think, probably makes some sense. And I think in the spirit of everybody really should be looking at merging, I think it would be worthwhile on our map and on yours to have both Champlain Valley and Mount Mansfield at least have a discussion. I realize that is a huge ADM number. We sort of don't have them either one of us have them with anybody merging. But it just seems like they are neighbors. They're pretty high functioning school system. And they should we should at least put them in one group to rather than two just to say, hey. At least have a conversation. It may be a very short conversation that says we are way too big to merge into one district. Just a an idea I wanted to put out there.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Jump in Valley and

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And then the Valley and. Okay. Yeah. On our map, that is group 13 and group 14. Fifteen and seventeen. I'll just have to grab hold on. So you yeah. 17. So do we have your map, could you? I don't have a all I have for senate maps is Yes. It doesn't have any Oh, the industry itself. Yeah.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Senate Ed Guidance.

[Rep. Emily Long]: You don't have this?

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Is there a version here? It's this one.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah, that's the one I've been looking at.

[Rep. Emily Long]: I thought we all got sweet, but maybe not. You don't have that one?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I don't You know if it's posted as well.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: It's the final listing of districts. The guidance ones are posted. You do want to do numbers next to Beth, so you know which ones are on this, then I can tell you. One, if you wanna mark your maps.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: These our numbers.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Thank you.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: This, however, doesn't have your change for pain map.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: No. I think we did that only in the Yeah.

[Rep. Emily Long]: I don't think we changed it on the map.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: It's just in the bill. Yeah. Payne Mountain is Northfield in Williamstown. Right? Yeah. Is that correct? A nine that you moved? Is it just to the panels? Yeah. Going to the green. Into the green.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: The white they moved to? To the green. The green. That's what I thought. Okay. It's just gonna fill in limestone? Yeah. Yeah.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Alright. So then just some questions that I had as I was going through kind of the Southeast portion. Searsburg. We had Searsburg in our group five, and you moved them into your group one, which aligns them with sort of the Bennington, Arlington, Conlon areas. And again, they're a CISA on they're already within the current existing CISA, and they're already within that current SU. So I guess I'm curious as to why that

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: I don't remember Franklin. I think it was only that that's the way that Searsburg looks and everything is connected to Bennington from Searsburg, one of the mountain towns next to I'll look for it. So you've got them where?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: With their SU and with their subset in allo group five.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: In group five? In group two?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Yeah. It's in our group two. I I I don't think that's a

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: No. That's in Oh, I see. You put it. It should be in the two,

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I'm saying. I I was just asking why they put that in.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Our group too is essentially the Southeast the Southeast and Windham Southwest together.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: We moved we we moved over at their request over at Brutesboro and Stanford into the kind of Wyndham area. That was a request we had. We don't know which towns they are, but we moved into our group two. From we initially had them in group one, we moved Bootsboro and Stanford into the Windham District.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Yeah, it's just that Searsburg is left out of that, I think.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: We can talk about that.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah, they were already in that CISA, they were already in that trial. Yeah, school's fine.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: So Searsburg.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Same sort of question with Stratton. You've moved them out of there at SU and at

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: their currently existing. Yes. Got a very specific request from the Stratton School Board to be moved.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay. Alright. Wardsboro and Dover.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Kind of mountain town mountain towns directed in that direction. I think also that, if you put Worsboro and Dobrovich into a different group, they're just gonna vote no. This gives them a chance to actually, perhaps, vote yes, because of the construct. I don't quite follow. They are both data aid operating. They're all single districts now. We're trying to get them home.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Doesn't Dover have a backup quite a few miles? Internet and ID program? Aren't they operating in ID programs? No. Dover doesn't. Dover is not operating.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Rise Corp.

[Rep. Emily Long]: You. Question about because I wasn't involved in these conversations because I'm not on the Ed Committee. Mhmm. Yeah. But I'm just looking at Act 73 and the task force that you were on, Beth. And that was or I'm sorry, rep Quimby. There were criteria that were supposed to be looked at. And I'm assuming you all looked at them when you were working on your maps. And I'm wondering what criteria you mentioned a few. There are very specific criteria about how to consider moving districts. And I'm wondering if you both could just walk through what criteria you used.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So I wasn't on the redistricting task

[Rep. Emily Long]: No, in your committees.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: So you were

[Rep. Emily Long]: making the math.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yes. It was ADM, where kids went to CTE, what current school system they're in, whether it's a district or a SU. And then we also included where kids go to CTE.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: And

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: then there was just some basic geography that-

[Rep. Emily Long]: Geography, yeah. What about UK?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Everything except worry about SU boundaries. Same thing, except we didn't pay attention. We didn't We felt more about districts than SU boundaries.

[Rep. Emily Long]: I don't understand what you mean by that.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: If the district wanted to move out of an SU, or it made sense for them to be somewhere else, we thought about it as districts, not SUs. Where the district wanted to be. That's just what we used those criteria, we thought more about, except we didn't focus as much on current SU boundaries as the House did.

[Rep. Emily Long]: I see. Okay. But you looked at where kids went at CTE?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: We considered

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: all of

[Rep. Emily Long]: You looked at the ADM count?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yes.

[Rep. Emily Long]: You looked at

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: We were aware of, for instance, that we knew a few were high.

[Rep. Emily Long]: And geographic

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Absolutely. Constructs. Okay. I would add one more factor that we felt very strongly about, and that pertains to this area, is that there was an existing CISA that was providing services to these school systems already. Yeah. And the ones that we have within that remaining of that space.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: And we thought about the fact that, again, not for the just for the point of putting everything on the table. We thought about this as being kind of a point for a new beginning, because we're looking at things differently and wanting to give districts an opportunity to not be necessarily locked into where they are and doing that's what made sense for them.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Did you use a criteria of some kind to sort of how you classify because they asked? Like, who is they?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Like, one more question. School board members of school board school board chairs, particular, school boards asking this. Like, in the case of Stratton, school board asked us.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Were there other cases where it was school board asking?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Yes. Instance, when we just I remember, in particular, Hancock and Grand Isle wanted to be in the area that we put them in. And they wanted to maintain the options that they have now. And there were others. Yeah. And our map reflects, I can't remember all of the times when and where, but our map reflects a lot of testimony that we received after we put out the request to the School Boards Association.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah. I mean, handcuff and grammar are the same. Yeah.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Yeah. They're obvious.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So no sort of formalness?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: We did not have formal criteria, although we talked about all of those things.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Guess I'm a little challenged by how we resolve some of these differences in this region, especially in areas that are already within an existing CISA and that have membership there and maybe getting services from it and then sort of pulling them out and putting them in a different SU and a different CSA. I think there's some challenge there, even legally.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: There may be a challenge, but again, we looked at this as not letting ourselves get locked into the existing, in the context of the fact that we're moving, that we are making changes.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Right. No one's locked in. We are sitting here talking about something where nobody is locked into anything. But again, we were really looking at some sort of hard lines that exist that are preexisting that there.

[Rep. Emily Long]: What is the town that's in a different on the senate map? Is it Sears?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So in the proposal from the senate, Searsburg, Dover, Wardsborough, Stratton would all be moved to the left and into the Yeah, you can sort of see in the Senate map, sort of that green that's reaching sort of down into the blue. So the ones that sort of make up that, which is Stratton, Somerset, Wardsborough, and Dover are in the existing operating CISA currently.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Oh, they're in the one that already exists, not one that's proposed?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Correct.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Oh, well, we shouldn't,

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: I'm sorry. No.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: We gotta focus a lot on what what injuries wanted.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: I wonder if since Jana's here, we can focus on ADM for while. Does that make sense, Peter?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So, yeah, John, could you put up the senate guidance map? And if you could kinda walk us through some of the groupings, and what I think what we'd like to know is perhaps ADM in those groupings.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Yes, I should be able to do that for the record. I'm John Adams, director of center for geographic information.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Let me

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: see if I can screen share here. Can you all see my screen now?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: We can. It's not colored in with groupings.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Okay. I just wanted to point out before opening up the school district builder here, we've added this is in the School Explorer map. There's now a conference committee grouping where we have put the senate draft and the house draft as well as outlines if you wanted to compare one with the other and pull in any of the other layers with different criteria. So if that's of interest to anyone and or if there are other layers or proposals, this is where we would likely add them in the School Explorer.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Where is the tool explorer link?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: It is if you go to, it looks like I can't. Can I add anything in the chat here?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Probably not.

[Rep. Emily Long]: We're not on the chat either.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Okay, so that wouldn't help. If you go to map.vermont.gov/education. In terms of the senate ADM numbers, These I don't know how best to to make this helpful or useful for you all, but

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Oh, because we can't really see that that well. It may be easier for just us to ask you questions based on groupings. So Okay. For example, upper left gray Otherwise known as number 12, grouping number 12.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Yes.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: What's the ABM there?

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: 9122.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And then I don't know if this does not have your payment switch in this. But if you could tell us what the current ADM is on number 18, which is the bright light blue.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: 600855.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: So

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: that's Central Vermont without paying out at Northfield. How about number 11, upper right hand corner?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: 4113.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Size. What about pink and purple, CBU and MMBO? Oh, yeah.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Groups It's six

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: well, you guys do have them. Is that 16?

[Rep. Emily Long]: 15 and 17?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: It's 15 and 16. Yeah. 15 and 16. 15 is $2,005.99.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And how much? 16?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: It's $4,001.26.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: What was what did you have for 15 again?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: 2,599.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And now could you I don't wanna drag the train here, people have more questions. I was just not they had put up the house guidance map, and we could ask about some of the same areas.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: The house guidance map, I don't actually have the builder configuration for it, so

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: I can't give you the

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: ADM numbers like I am with the senate one, unless someone emails me a link to the latest house version.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: I think Peter's figuring out how to do that right now.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay. First, I may be sending you just a PDF. Right? Yeah. It's what I which is what we've had posted. But you must have created a PDF for us. Anyway, I just sent the the link to the PDF that we had.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: I do have the the PDF, and I have that up on the screen. I do not have it in the indirect builder app.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay. I guess I would just say, Beth, you can correct me wrong, but we really try to sort of stick to that 2 to 4,000 range, to creating these, seeing that, and in some areas, it's more like two, especially up in the Northeast Kingdom, because you just can't build the boundaries without building a huge geographic region. I wonder,

[Rep. Emily Long]: Quimby, because you're from up in the Northeast Kingdom. Did you have conversations about the Senate versus the House map up there and which is preferable?

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: I have not had a lot of input received on comparing those two at this point.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I will say that the We also started off very similar to what the Senate had and the feedback we got was that just simply the geographic distance between Newport, which is the main hub to everywhere else, was a long, long distance and very different operating systems to put together in such a huge geographic region. You can sort of look at the upper right on hours, you've got which is a pre K-twelve, you've got all the kingdom choice, not operating those schools anywhere there. We kept them within the grouping that also has Linden and students about the Fairy Academy because that's where most of them send their nine through 12 students to.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Mhmm.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: I will say we did have this configuration, the senate configuration from my own school district putting in Cal co op at one point. But it didn't take it out.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: That's right. We did go back.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Because if you then made a decision to honor superintendent, you need boundaries.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Got it, okay. Yeah, and I guess that's just geographically and operationally challenging swath of land. And I'd say that the Franklin County one is geographically challenging because you got the lake in the way, but also at 9,000, that's a pretty high number.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: So

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: I don't think it's a problem to abide this one. I think we were just trying to get fewer. Yeah, I appreciate that. So

[Rep. Emily Long]: you're okay with the Senate or the House version, group twelve and eleven out there?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I wonder if we can John, back on the Senate map, is that somewhat still interactive? I don't think it's gonna make a big enough difference, but I was wondering if we pull the islands out of that Franklin County part that you guys have put together, could it get us down to a better number? But there's just not that many kids up there. I'd say just let's see what the ABM is

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: for 12.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: The 887 for the islands.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So keeps it at about 8,000.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: And 8,235 for grouping 12.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Still really big.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Is there any reason within those groupings that they can't look at? I don't know, also, it's not that they'll have to, the point isn't always that they're all in one group at the end. They can divide themselves, if that makes sense as well.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yes, the fact is this is all guidance, which I keep saying, and I would just say, however, the level to which we can focus the facilitators, they're gonna get a sense off the ground and say, actually these lines should be adjusted slightly this way or that way. But to sort of say, here's a giant region with eight, nine thousand kids.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Just getting all those folks around the table and then having them figure out how to separate could be quite chaotic and lengthy, right?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: It might be, it also might be good, also might be healthy. But again, I'm

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: not arguing the point right now.

[Rep. Emily Long]: I would just say we just shortened the timeline in the Senate proposal, means that they're not gonna have a lot of time to have these initial conversations. They need to literally and figuratively hit the ground running because they're not gonna have time to do it unless they're set up to succeed.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: And, you know Which also cuts both ways, so just to clear, because if we put that in place, it doesn't make sense to them, that's gonna create its own problem. I'm not, again, there's challenges around the whole thing, the whole concept. And,

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: you know, the Paine Mountain thing will bump up that Central Vermont area. So you could sort of,

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: we could sort of experiment there with a larger number. That's a little tricky because we had two senators approach us.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Oh yeah, no, I'm not opposing, I'm saying that maybe we do do that there. Okay. That's sort of a lot of tech. All right. I think I have my questions answered, But if other people have other questions about the map and the ABM and all of that. So I see if there's any other area that I

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: would sort of

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: let's see.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Can I just ask about this? There's Norwich, Fairleigh, Berkshire, and West Fairleigh. Two white areas are both interstate districts? They are. Okay. Are they the same interstate districts? No, they're two different ones. And then in between is Beth Quimby.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yes.

[Rep. Emily Long]: And so is that on both maps? They're going with the group above fairly?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: That is their SU.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Okay.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Just like the same as we have. Okay. Yeah. I I get some. I appreciate the the help, John. And maybe we might leave a link, the interactive link, to the Senate map posted, although it's up there now, the ones that I sent along. So I'm good. Don't if anybody else has questions for John.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Well, can you actually you had the question, Brett Conlon, about CVU and Mount Mansfield being in a group. I'm wondering, since CVU is quite big, it's 4,100, about what the Essex High School number that's the Essex Westford District? How many is the ADM there?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: That'd be a question for John.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Yeah.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Seven thousand four seventeen.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Oh, wow.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: For just the just the Essex Westford School. Oh, the this is the the grouping.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Oh, yeah. No. I'm just asking for Essex Westford

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Alone. How much how big is that school?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Just the school district. Let's see.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: K.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Eighteen hundred?

[Rep. Emily Long]: Eighteen hundred. Essex Westford total?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Essex and Westford. Sorry. Yeah. District 30 3621, if that's that sound right.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So I think that's

[Rep. Emily Long]: that does sound right.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Essex. Okay. That includes Essex Junction, Essex Town, and Westford?

[Rep. Emily Long]: Yeah. Mhmm. 3621 for that district?

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Yes.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: We currently have them both. We have them just solo probably.

[Rep. Emily Long]: No, they're not solo. And I don't think in either map they're solo.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Who is group fifteen? Evening at six Westford and There's a lot of other games to play. Yeah.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: John, who is in group?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Include? Senate.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Gina's in Champaign Valley District.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Not in the that's in the Senate now. I'm looking at the Yeah.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Alright. So the House is group 15 is the question. That's the question. In the house group 15, I just can't there's a lot of superfluous stuff in the way in the

[Rep. Emily Long]: in the PDF. Maybe it is just

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I think it probably is.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: The house one, I think it's just The lieutenant one is. Not mine. It's a couple other pages.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yes. It is with Colchester and Hilton Pediatric one. Wait a minute. It's on that. Sorry.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: That's number

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: That's number 13. Okay. Last last one, I can see.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Because it doesn't

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Seventeen, seven thousand. 7,400 kids.

[Rep. Emily Long]: I just wonder about Yes? I'm not sure exactly how to say that. But I think you had mentioned, should we put these districts together and make everybody have a conversation about merging and proposed CDU and MMU? I just wonder if it's I, on one hand, think, oh, it's fair to have everybody have these conversations. And on the other hand, I don't want to waste anybody's time. And I wonder so then I was thinking, since CVU is so big, maybe we move MMU to with Essex Westford, but they're also quite big. So I just

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Geographically, MMU and CBU,

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: There's a lot of hills in

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: the way going in any direction. I'm not quite sure what the best option is. They're all sort of at scale. Probably we should have a conversation anyway. We could put the three of them together in a group for a conversation.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Well, I mean, there's Colchester and the islands all go together geographically. I don't know about. Does that make sense to you?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah. Wow.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: You really built the coolest slave.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I know. What is that? That's where people draw. That's

[Rep. Emily Long]: where they go.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Problems, not the patterns.

[Rep. Emily Long]: I just think whatever map we determine we I just will say this again. We have to set everybody up for the easiest start possible. We have taken away a year in the timeline in the proposal in the Senate, and we need to make sure that they can hit the ground running and are within groupings that make sense for them, with already established relationships.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Not necessarily the same things, so we have to just keep that in mind.

[Rep. Emily Long]: And that are going to lead to the greatest highest percentage of success with the mergers. Because otherwise, we're just going to waste everybody's time. If they have to spend three months getting to know each other, they're never going to be able to. And if you're already in a SU, you're already in a CSA, you're already in a community that travels together and does sports together and kids went to daycare together and all those things, it's going to be a lot easier than if we create lines. That's one of the reasons, like looking at the Northeast Kingdom, it's a huge geographic area. I don't know what the relationship you live there, not me, but the relationships across that span are. I think it's just we want to and need to set these conversations up for success. Otherwise, people are not gonna merge in the timeline, especially the timeline that we've given them, that we're proposing in our map.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: I think I'm regularly setting up for success is good. Yeah.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Would say, when you talk about proposals, I would say our proposal would be to not move the boundaries as proposed by the House in the southern part of the state where there is an existing CISA boundary that would be pulling people out of that already sort of legally obligated arrangement. And I would just say for the time being, it's all guidance. If the guidance person gets down there and says, and these people say, that's not the way we wanna go, if anybody can do that.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: And then you're also proposing splitting the kingdom up because it's too big for a Yeah,

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: would say I'm trying to find room for compromise over something that is guidance anyway, because it's basically These are just sort of inescapable facts, that is the distance of the Northeast Kingdom. That is that the proposed group up in Franklin County at 9,100 is probably too many, that there is the existing CISA boundary that is a sort of a legal entity there. Wells Middletown Springs thing, I think sounds fine. I think if you've got sort of strong on boardness with Payne Mountain, give it a shot. Yeah.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: And then we already had some agreement on the islands. Right?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah. From there?

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: Yeah. So we'll we'll take that all in. Okay. Got it.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Okay. You don't need it written?

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Okay. Trevor. Yeah. Sorry. Okay. Great. I'll then go with a little bit of insurance. It would be helpful if you could write it up. Okay. Thanks. Do you want to take a two minute break, do you want to jump in with someone else?

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I can take a two

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: minute break if I could. Is that okay, Sam? Sure.

[Unidentified Senate conferee]: We'll take a we'll stay live, but go off.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Thanks, John. I guess we're live,

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: but go off.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: What does

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: that mean? If

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: you do if you do want the house numbers now, I do have a have them pulled up in the builder.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Oh, so fast. I don't have any questions about ours, but we do. Happy to look at it.

[Rep. Emily Long]: Yeah. We can look at it. If it's if we can look at it on the.

[Rep. Beth Quimby]: Thank you.

[John Adams, Director, Vermont Center for Geographic Information]: Thanks. I'll just follow-up with the links.