Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: I'm live.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Okay, we're back after a little break. We're back on the floor.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Think you logged off. Yeah, so we were discussing the Northwest corner of the state. And so what I did is I grabbed and had printed our groupings with C sub border overlay map to kind of help describe what we're talking about. And I think one thing we will talk specifically about is melting. Yep. Thank you. We're gonna try to do our best to get various maps organized and straight here. So again, just relating to grouping the islands with Franklin County, between testimony plus the members who we had on our committee who represent that area, their concern was that there's just no land between the two and you have to drive down through Milton anyway. If you look on this map, we have Grand Isle grouped for merger study with Milton and Colchester. And so you see the seesaw line kind of diving down there. I'm not sure that that's what we intended, even though I'm sure we said that and maybe we didn't. I it would probably clear things up to have that line go straight across if we put Milton in Colchester and the islands altogether in a grouping and put Milton into the CISA with all of those as well.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: So, like, from where it

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: says group 20 to the green dot below Bellows Free, like, would be a line?

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Well, yeah. Well, yeah, the line right at the bottom of the green would become a CSA boundary, which puts Milton, frankly with the same merger study grouping that we have. And again, starts with the grouping conversation as well. It's really about nothing but geography and the fact that the vast majority of people in the islands go south for CTE, for high school, all of that.

[Leland Morgan (Member, House of Representatives – Grand Isle/West Milton)]: Yeah, I'll agree with that because all our services we receive now at Milton are from the Chittenden County area and not breaking up the Seesaw District going north and then going south and then the Merger District going north.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: So I guess, make it more of a formal proposal, it would be to go to the cease of boundary line for the house in that area with the adjustment that puts Milton in with Colchester. I think on your construct, it's the Chittenden Central. Chittenden Central. Yeah.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Then what about for the merger groupings?

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Where is the I just wanted to do the CSIP card for us to take care of that number. Okay. There is a fair bit more for the merger groupings issues.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Do have other C cells?

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: That's it. No, that's the only thing where we were any different. And I can't speak to

[Leland Morgan (Member, House of Representatives – Grand Isle/West Milton)]: the Grand Isle part. I would imagine it's almost split maybe like that upper northern portion of Grand Isle heading over to the Missisquoi Valley area.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yeah. I hear what you're saying. We just decided to keep it clean from an SUV boundary point of view as well. I guess what you'll see if you start talking about the groupings that we didn't wanna break up the SEUs when it came to our merger discussions. All right, so that is a proposal on table for the CSA. If we can answer now or not, if Beth might talk about that's fine. Groupings, probably the biggest difference is that we have fewer than we do. Period. But maybe we should just talk about that area one more time, get into a discussion of groupings. Again, we would we would suggest that the groupings stick with the house proposal can strictly because of where the lake is and where the bridges are and where things flow and keeping the rather than sort of against pulling up Oliver, even though I know they switch over, but they are part of the Grand Isle Supervisory Review.

[Leland Morgan (Member, House of Representatives – Grand Isle/West Milton)]: Yeah. And just going back from what I've heard from my areas is that a lot of those services that they do contract with is in that group 13, the Colchester, Essex Westford, Milton School District versus the islands, just the islands in Milton. More of

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: our work is done with

[Leland Morgan (Member, House of Representatives – Grand Isle/West Milton)]: the Chittenden County for services wise, so line that back up. And I don't know where that means the islands fall, but if you look up page 28,

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: group 13, you'll be

[Leland Morgan (Member, House of Representatives – Grand Isle/West Milton)]: as the Senate side of Colchester, Essex Westward, and Milton as that group. And then in the House's version, it'd be group 20,

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: which is the islands, Albert and Milton. 28, picture. Our group 20 is the islands, Milton and Colchester. Yep. And you're saying

[Leland Morgan (Member, House of Representatives – Grand Isle/West Milton)]: That Colchester has six West for Milton. It's more naturally

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: where it falls.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Could we agree, though, that the islands should probably be grouped with the Chittenden County folks rather than the Franklin County folks? Since that's where they If if it's I would say it is. First of all, falls within the same CISA. Second, that's where the kids go to high school, where that's where the

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: kids go to CTE. So so you're just you're talking about for the grouping islands with Chittenden County?

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yeah. And whether we stick to our grouping or your grouping, we can put a pin in if we like at this point.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah. Let's put a pin in it.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: But yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Wait. So your group 20 is Alberg, Champlain Islands, Colchester, Milton, and South Hero. Yeah. So are are you proposing to add Essex Westford to that grouping?

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: I was only I wasn't going any further than saying, let's move the islands into a Chittenden based trooping rather than a Franklin Oh, okay. Trooping. And that that level of detail, we can sort of come back to. You talk

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: about the islands. You're talking about the islands associated.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: I'm talking about Grand Isle supervising the ditches all over it. All of that. All of the islands.

[Leland Morgan (Member, House of Representatives – Grand Isle/West Milton)]: Which I would say be consistent with the seesaw. And keeping

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: the SU Yeah. Noted. I think as you look at our CISA and grouping map that I have in front of you, what you'll see sort of consistent in our philosophy it clearly was the not break up SUs and not add CSA boundaries break up SUs such as they are. It may have happened in, but I don't think so. We were we were trying to be pretty careful about that. And that was our our overriding philosophy. And added to that is where kids go to CTE. And I think in the bill, we continually call out making sure kids have access to CTE. So, for example, I'm not sure how up to date you can start with the whole Paint Mountain change, but we have compared to what they have. You know, Northfield and Williamstown go to the Randolph CTE by moving them into a merger study group that's mainly Central Vermont. Those states all go to a different CTE. So that's just one of the factors to keep in mind.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah, we got a lot of testimony, a lot of calls about moving Pain Mountain to It's actually in the bill.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah. I think we moved Payne Mountain to where you had it, actually. Yeah. The very,

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: like, was very recent.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: I think it's in the it was in the Senate and Metro, so I think we moved them to where you had them.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: No. I think you moved them into Wimitsky Valley region. I'd have to Go ahead. Are you talking group 18? I think we're losing

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: versions to some degree.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: I'm sorry.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: So there was one grouping change that happened in the final amendment, floor amendment in the senate. Can you clarify what that was?

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: And it's reflected in the side by side. Okay. Right?

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah. We moved Pay Mountain into group 18.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Into hour 18?

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Into, yeah, the Senate 18.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Page 20.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: You have then.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: One of the challenges we have is that this map doesn't have any town things or. We could I have the whole smaller map. I which groups and which number helps.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: It's an amendment somewhere.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Green Mountain is in group nine on Los.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Oh, yeah, that is.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Which is on page 27. Yeah.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: And

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: much of that was based on fact that the kids from those schools all go to Grand Isle.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Can you move some to group 21 of our mesh?

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: No. It's group have different number of groups. That is group 18 with Berry, Harwood, Montpelier, Roxbury, Plainfield, and Washington Central.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: The other caution I didn't have with that move is that that makes a really big worker group. That's I think it's over 5,000 students at that point. I mean,

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: I think what what we heard was from the senators from Washington County, they didn't like the group that the Senate Education Committee had put them in and asked that they be moved into the Washington County group. I think they had been put in a group that was more within the Northeast Kingdom. So I don't know how they feel about the group that you put them in. It was in one version, they went south. In one version, they went north. And I think they wanted to be central.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: You're talking Senate versions because we didn't put them

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Well, Granville, Hancock, Rochester, that's that's more south of where they are, I think.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yes.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: And the senate originally, the senate had them going more north of where they are. And so this was they wanted to be more central. Yeah,

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: we had them about central as you can get, just geographically, which is our group nine. And again, trying to sort of call out maintaining access to CTE as well. So I I do realize this is all largely guidance maps. So Yeah. Our capacity is important.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Do you know where they

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: are on this note? It's got

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: a number. I know they're in the So I would say that the concern with change that you made there, what, of that part would be probably two. One is very large grouping, a type of ADM, and sort of a breaking up of having two kids heading in different directions for CTU.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Yeah, and yet, what we tried to do was listen, was sort of pick up on what we got asked to do, reference to school boards. Well, I do think that both committees received a lot of testimony and feedback from the field and sought out I know the House Education Committee sought a lot of feedback from the field and from families and kids on this. But did you all check the number of students per grouping as you were finalizing the math?

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yep, seven thousand one hundred and ninety five and eighteen.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah, that is one

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: of the biggest. That may be the biggest. Yeah, it is the biggest. But it doesn't mean they all have to merge into one.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Just speaking of numbers, your I group number, don't have should be yours. Franklin County. It should be our you combined our green. What is that? That'd a big green. Oh, Franklin County.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Green. Yeah. Okay. That's number 12.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: So it looks like we basically combined our group seven thirty and eighty out of the islands which seems like we probably get started yet and so I just wanted to ask sort of the motivation for that and what is what is the for that?

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: The ABM for group 12 is 9,000. It's 90 small print here. 9,100. That's also another large one.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Tammy, is

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: We we try to keep the ADM numbers manageable. It's the reason we did We're sort of sticking to that guidance yet. We also talked about it being in the 2 thousand range.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: So what is your so what let me just look let me look at yours. So you would have it as

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: This is what we use. This is And we may be here as yeah. Think

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: is something we can really bogged down, and we definitely would have John Adams Adams come in and put it up on the screen and he can sort of say, this is how many people are here, this is many people are here.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah, it would be really helpful to have a comparison of how many, what the ADM is, because I I would be concerned about having the group so big that they're not manageable for a conversation about

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: a merger. Yeah. There's two particularly large groups. It's the two we've been talking about. Yeah. So eighteen and twelve. Otherwise, we've done

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: So do we wanna see if someone from the GIS office can get another perspective? Yeah. I think we should. Yeah. Yes. I think we should. But I'll just quickly go through some of the other thoughts on this. Our group twelve and eleven, which you have combined more or less, the feedback we got is that's a pretty vast geographic area. It's the East. Some folks up there were like, do you know how long it takes to get from Newport to Cadence? That

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: gets us to about 11,000 students. I'm sorry, 4,000 students. In a row.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: An hour 11. And I think,

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: you know, partially it was also to allow more flexibility as to putting their work having network discussions. So in what way? Well, they don't all have to merge, they wouldn't necessarily have to merge into one, they could merge into two, it's just a little bit more flexibility. And that whole region up there just really seemed to go naturally fit together. That was the rationale for it. Naturally fit together in what sense? Operating structures or SUs or Well, it's a combination of like districts and they all kind of operate the same, I think. It's not a big I don't think it's a huge deal. We just did it because that was kind of consistent with the testimony we got.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yeah, I mean, in reality, what you have, like, our group 12, I'm pretty sure these are all our K-twelve operating systems. Yep. 11 is really all over the place. You've K-twelve, you've got 100% non operating. Development would be a it's gonna ultimately be a complex one to get combined, certainly not a cost. That's a point well taken. All right. So again, the central part of the state is a big number under yours, and I think there's a CPE split issue that we should think about. Sort of in the southern quadrant of the state, Our two are not terribly dissimilar. The sort of bottom part there, our group five and our group six, These were really intended, two things, one is to maintain SUs who are already working together, both because they are SUs, but also because they're all part of the same current existing CESA. And so the value is also a Vermont Superintendent's Association region as well. So there's a there's a certain amount of consistency of working together. And, you know, I think under yours, we're kind of chopping it chopping up an SU, like, Dover and Lawrenceboro are. They're actually part of a different SU that stays in group six,

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: but you have them moving over here. They operate differently.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: I so that may be, but they certainly operate differently within the SC that they're already in. And, again, it was more it stays within the CISA boundary. It maintains an an SU where they're doing things together. I suspect there's a CTE factor as well. So that's just just another thing I'm pointing out.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: I will say, based on personal experience with our committees, if there's an existing relationship through a supervisory, they're much more likely to be successful at merging.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: It was kind of our philosophy of trying to maintain SUs as we've created these groupings.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: And I as someone who lives there, I know those conversations have are already fairly active in the groupings that the House has followed.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah, this is one we took some testimony on.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: We'll Well, did the testimony say?

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: That the boundaries in the House map were kind of where we had a sense people actually wanted to be. I'm sorry, the boundaries in the Senate map, where we had a sense people wanted to be. We always have to struggle with

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: what a few emails and a few pieces of testimony are do they speak for everybody? Of

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: course, we

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: do. And I think a lot about the sort of what's gonna make the process and work to the best in terms of, you know, what already exist working within what already exists, both CPE, catchment area, and existing SUs and SDs. But anyway We'll note we'll note that. Yeah. The our group or I guess the sort of the Rutland County area, could you just talk a little bit about the changes you've made there? This would be on your light blue section. We're not very different. And so like there's that little hand thumb going up there. I just can't read what that is. I think it's

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Middletown Springs.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Middletown, logically. Middletown and Wales all of them go together, logically. And they're in merger discussions, actually. They have been. Makes sense for them to be together, Middletown, Wells, Rupert and Powell.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yeah, sort of look at the high school there. Anyway, I I don't have any I I don't actually

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: have any that's just a

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: good parent's point to find out what where you were at on that. That's But you did not pull in the Earth Wales. And then Got it. Okay. I understand it now.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Version. That's a very logical singular principle.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Then, let's see. Addison County just always is the same.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: It's nice to be the easy part of the state.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: In let's see. We that's the state. If I'm looking at the yeah. Chittenden County So we have, like yeah. We're digging on that with some, maybe look at the map with some names on it. I'm not sure I have a whole lot more to say on this. If we get John And Tim said to him, I haven't heard back. Okay. And it'd be helpful to

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: put them on the screen so we can load them up so we can see them. See how much the size difference is. Right. And then also where they overlap with SCUs and existing lines would be helpful too.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: But we have to not necessarily lock people in where they are consistent about movements. We want to be be sensitive to

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: that. Yes. Mean, I'll be honest with you. A lot of the talk about SUs and those relationships that exist today, something that you brought up as being very important as well is, I think, somewhat reflected in in our map as well. Just let's keep the SD boundaries together. Those people who are already in these systems together. Okay, given that, I don't think we can probably dive into a whole lot more. But I think one sort of fairly factual decision, you all can make a point with this publishing, but I can see stuff.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: You go. And it sounds like we're still talking about Hayne Mountain and then one or two in The Kingdom and then Southeast Vermont. Did that summarize well?

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yeah. Okay. And I will say, appreciate the attempt to get down to 18 groupings. I think we tried as well, but it kept, you know, like, oh, if we put that there, that's gonna explode. Number. Over large. Could Yeah. We talk to school construction?

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Good. Move on capital. I think we could state the I need your book. Yeah, I'm going to keep on doing it.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: I'm watching the light.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: In the grand scheme of things. Yeah, in

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: the grand scheme of things. Oh, definitely.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: I put together a diagram on school construction that helped my brain, at least, I think, or I'm hoping will. I'd love to talk through the percentages and how they work. I know yesterday, Senator Hardy, you talked about the districts that had already passed bonds and what scenario they would be in if funds, supplemental district spending didn't have. So maybe I'm the only one who needs this diagram, but I desperately need it.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: We love visuals. It's gonna have

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: a color, John. It does. Well John, can you settle back here or whatever? Does that mean a screening movie at this end? To the extent that that's whatever we can do. Yeah.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: And I texted John Adams, but it might be better to have an official invite. Yeah. But

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: he has people in the staff who can accept it. I didn't make that.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: So I'm joining the Zoom now, and I'm John Gray with the Council. I haven't sent this for posting yet, but I can afterwards.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Okay. Here we go.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: So the hope here Oh gosh, I really struggle with the colors. Can you guys tell that those are two different green?

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yeah, you can Yeah, there's a big one. Okay.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: This looks better on my laptop. I'd hoped to have more useful headers, but it was truly just assembling this. So the idea here is to show the different aid scenarios possible under the different chamber proposals and how those would be covered through district bonding, state bonding, what is different indicative examples of the kind of aid that you might get and how much you need to buy locally and then the kind of aid that you get. So this slide is meant to indicate if you get the minimum aid available under the different proposals, what would that look like if it was in the form of a 100% debt service subsidy? And so on the health proposal, just recall that you have a range of 50 to 95%. So the minimum aid would be 50%. And under the Senate proposal that range is 30 to 75%. So the minimum aid available would be 30%. So that's what you see here is in visual form what I just said, and I'm just gonna pause on each one so folks can ask questions because I think it's gonna be more helpful to look at it and then ask me things than for me to say to talk about this.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: I'm just gonna clarify for me and anybody else that in this scenario, we're talking about supplemental district spending, it's a different supplemental district spending than the allowables. This is strictly for school construction.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes, this is a one time authorization unlike the restorative annual.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Please don't. And

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: so part of what this is trying to show is that when you get your aid package completely in the form of a debt service subsidy, school district itself will need to bond for the full 100% right. But then what they're actually covering for supplemental district spending is just 50%.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Okay, that was not clear from the visual part.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Couldn't figure out how good

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: We talked about the cross hatching. Sorry. Okay. So so the way I understand this is the district has a bond. The way the district pays back the bond is in the house contract, 50% of that bond is paid back through a debt service subsidy from the state, and 50% of that bond is paid back through supplemental district spending. But the district is responsible for the full bond and paying back the full bond.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah, this is the minimum amount without the bonus. Yep,

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: exactly. The 45 percent bonus. Great. And then is the next

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: Yep, okay, so just to orient, the first three slides I'll show are all minimum eight scenarios. And they show you if it's 100% debt service subsidy, that's what you see here. They show if it's 100% state bonding support. And then they show if you a mixed bag, if you got a mixed package that was 50% bonding support, 50% that service subsidy. In all cases, they're just examples of the kind of aid that you could get. You could get a package with 2,575, you could get different scenarios. These are just meant to indicate the extremes and the midpoint of the kind of aid that you could receive in a state of the package. So this is if you receive the minimum aid exclusively in the form of state bonding support. And you can see that you're getting the light blue, which appears much nicer than the differences of the greens. It reduces the amount that the district is bonding, but if you compare between the two, the supplemental district spending coverage is the same, Still 50 coverage on the

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: health side. What do want me open it?

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: I'm good, I'm gonna keep on

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: the

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: head this with your head.

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Has no debt service subsidy. Correct.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: But there is gonna be one that has all three.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. Yes. And you're gonna see the most confusing one? Yeah. This

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: isn't helpful for my brain. It doesn't look I don't know. This is not how I visualized what we did in either case. I think maybe the last one will Okay.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: So if you want to see Admittedly, I'm also just not good at putting these things together. I was literally doing it right there. So this is what a mixed package would look like. You get some in dense urban subsidy, you get some in state bonding support,

[Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: and then you're covering some for supplemental district support.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: And so in this scenario, which is I think the scenario if, like, sort of full approvals are met. Yes? Yes. Okay. Then sorry, Seth. Supplemental The district spending, in both cases, we have not really figured out the source of that. Right? That's a project for next year.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: It's supplemental district spending.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I meant debt debt service subsidy. Sorry. The debt service subsidy, the revenue source for that, we have not figured that out yet necessarily. It sort of defaults to the Ed Fund. Yep. The state bonds need sort of approval of the recommendation of CDAC. But in both cases, I see basically what your proposal is doing. And this is actually what, for whatever reason, I needed this to have the math add up. You are putting significantly more pressure on the subject spending than we are, and less pressure on the state.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah. The way that I was looking at it is less, yes, less pressure on the state the district, but still supplementing what the more than we have now. It's up some Way more than we have now supplementing what districts are able to get. And for the most urgent cases, they would get the bonus points and get a higher level of state aid. And is there a bonus point scenario?

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: These contemplate So when we go to the maximum, that'll be the next

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: slide, Okay, great.

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: When we go to the maximum aid scenarios, they contemplate all of the bonus incentives.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Yeah, and the supplemental district spending is equalized so that there's districts So that

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: this is your maximum aid and this is 0% state bonding support. This is full coverage through a debt service subsidy. So on the house side, that's 95% coverage. The district still needs to bond for the full amount because the aid that's available is exclusively as a subsidy. And then on the Senate side, you see it's a 75% maximum aid, still bonding the full 100% coverage, but that SDS goes up to 25%.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Can there be a maximum scenario? I'm sorry, John. It's okay. Forgot to print your diagram. I'm sorry. Can there be a maximum scenario that?

[John Gray (Legislative Counsel)]: I would have three slides for the maximum scenarios. Okay. This is just if it's 100% debt service subsidy.

[Emily Long (Member, House of Representatives)]: Okay, while you guys are going to the floor, if you could just contemplate the idea that if someone was to achieve sort of all of the requirements of maximum subsidy, they would essentially be building a building that had been, like, deep policy servant to the state, to the state's goals to some degree, that would ideally be reducing costs through scale.

[Senator Martine Gulick (Vice Chair, Senate Education Committee)]: Fine. I'll try to talk to you.