Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay, welcome to House Education on May 8. The committee has sort of sporadically been looking into teacher workforce and how things are working in Vermont. We've had a lot of testimony on sort of the alternative pathways to teaching in Vermont, and today we'll spend some time learning about more traditional pathways to teaching in Vermont with students from UVM, which is really great for us to have you all here, and we are looking forward to it. And we're also looking forward to welcoming back Patrick. You wanna sit up front, that'd be great. Nice to see you again. Nice to see you too.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: So Thank you very much. Derek Conlon, vice chair of Windham, members of the committee. My name is Patrick Caledonia. I'm the director of educator licensure at the University of Vermont. Used to be at the AOE. I moved

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: about three or four years

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: ago. We greatly appreciate your request to hear from these so close to UVM graduates. We could call them UVM graduates in a week to learn more about their insights on educator preparation in Vermont schools. I want to join in honoring their work, but I also want to provide a bit of perspective on their journey. The entirety of these students' lives in which they've been cognizant of the wider world has been defined by instability and pessimism. Since entering middle school a decade ago, cultural, political, and actual wars have been the water in which they've swung. They were preteens during the me me too movement and in high school during the Black Lives Matter movement. They've only known poisonous and divisive politics, at

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: least at the national level.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: They were in eighth grade when the Parkland shooting occurred. Seniors in high school when Uvalde during Uvalde, they witnessed multiple fatality shootings at Michigan State, Virginia Commonwealth, University of Virginia, Brown, Tuskegee Institute, and others during their college careers. They've known conflicts in the Ukraine, the West Frank, now Iran. They deal daily with the social media pressures with social media pressures and have been president at the advent of generative AI. They've seen generational inflation. They assume a hamburger cost $15. They were sophomores and juniors in high school during the COVID pandemic. They've only known the existential threat of of global climate change. And yet, they've chosen the aspirational profession of teaching. When they have every reason to give up on hope, they opt to help students learn and learn to be good citizens. I commend their faith in education. Teaching, of course, is not the only noble profession, but like their peers at other UVM preparation for Vermont preparation programs and across the UVM College of Education and Social Services and Nursing and Health Sciences, they're choosing service over fame and riches, a decision that does not reduce their tuition costs. While you understand Vermont's budget challenges much better than I do, I want the committee to be aware of investments that other states have made in students who are dedicating their college careers to become teachers. Pennsylvania offers a $10,000 stipend to student teachers and a $2,000, $2,000 to their mentors to offset lost income during their internship semester. This school year, 2300 student teachers received the stipend in exchange for a commitment to teach in Pennsylvania for three years upon graduation. Next year's budget expands funding by $5,000,000 to a total of $35,000,000 Pennsylvania is larger than Vermont. Michigan has a program where education preparation students can receive a $10,000 grant in their junior and senior years and a $10,000 stipend on top of the grant during their student teaching semester, again in exchange for a commitment to teaching in Vermont. I'm teaching in Michigan. Sorry. And Vermont previously supported the teacher forgivable loan program where students could have up to $16,000 per year forgiven for each year in which they committed to teach in a Vermont public school. That fund was quickly expended. I know of at least two UVM students who were only able to complete their programs their senior years because of the existence of that program. They're both teaching in Vermont right now. Vermont waived the $1,200 peer review fee five years ago. While this is a great help to the peer review candidates, this fee is often the only cost incurred by many peer review candidates, many of whom are also remunerated as full time employees. There's not commensurate support for students in traditional education programs. And the need is great. Thanks to a generous funder, UVM has three $1,000 scholarships available annually to support students during their student teaching internship. Roughly half of our 150 annual program completers apply every year telling stories of high rent, unsustainable health care costs, rising fuel prices, and even food insecurity. Teacher shortages persist, as evidenced by the continuing high number of provisional licenses. And while all five of the students are opting that we'll hear from today are opting to stay in Vermont for now, most of their peers at UVM are not. With an aging Vermont population, lowest in the nation birth rates, attracting and retaining students to address this shortage, build careers and lives in Vermont, and scope good citizens needs to be a state priority. Thanks again for your time in seeking out the compelling stories of these students. Thank you. Maybe it makes sense for Kylie since she's online to go

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: first if that's great. That's helpful. Kylie?

[Kylie [last name unknown] (UVM graduate student; Charlotte Central School)]: Hi. Good morning, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. My name is Kylie. I'm a graduate student at the University of Vermont in the advanced specialties and educational practices program. I also completed my undergraduate degree in elementary education and special education at the University of Vermont. I am from Westover in Vermont, and I was born and raised in Vermont. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I chose to become a teacher because I believe every student deserves to know they matter, and to have a space to grow and learn. That belief has guided me and my work through my time at UVM and in Vermont schools. Through my preparation program, I had the opportunity to work with so many students across different settings. One of the most meaningful parts of this experience has been building relationships with students and then seeing them in the community. It highlights how important schools are as a central part of our community. At the same time, I have seen challenges in Vermont schools, especially related to staffing and budgets. These challenges can impact how consistently schools are able to meet students' needs, particularly for students who require more support. My preparation at UVM has been incredibly valuable. Starting my first year teaching with NEST, I gained hands on experience and helped me build both my confidence and my skills. I feel far more prepared now than when I began at UVM in August 2021. Currently, I work at Charlotte Central School. I'm a halftime special educator and a halftime intensive paraeducator. While I'm grateful to be working in Vermont, it was difficult to find a position. I did not secure this role until about a week and a

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: half before the school year began. Additionally, the cost of living is high

[Kylie [last name unknown] (UVM graduate student; Charlotte Central School)]: and has made me question whether I can stay here long term. I know this is a concern shared by many of my peers. Financial support such as loan forgiveness or financial support during student teaching would have made a significant difference for me. A teacher loan forgiveness program would have been attractive to me and likely to a number of my classmates, including those who are choosing to teach outside of Vermont. While I can't say it would have changed every decision, I do believe these kinds of supports could encourage more graduates to stay and begin their careers in Vermont. Vermont has strong preparation programs and is dedicated for to future teachers. With the right supports, more of us would choose to build our careers here. Thank you again for your time, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Thank you, Kylie. Could you talk a little bit about how you are combining full time work with being in graduate school, how the two work together?

[Kylie [last name unknown] (UVM graduate student; Charlotte Central School)]: Yes. So I work the normal school day. And then within my PD time at school on every Wednesday, I'm able to do a little work with how I incorporate my graduate studies here. And then I also outside of school spend at least three hours online just in a class, and then about fifteen hours doing coursework as well. So I end up doing a lot of time outside of school while also full time teaching.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Does your teaching provide sort of credit toward your graduate degree, or is it required as part of your graduate degree?

[Kylie [last name unknown] (UVM graduate student; Charlotte Central School)]: It is not at my school, but my school has I'm able to apply that to my steps in my pay program. So I'm able to gain that but also, have a working towards a my or a micro certificate in trauma education, which would also help as a special educator with current goals.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Thank you. Kate, go ahead.

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: Did I hear correctly that you're

[Unidentified Committee Member A]: a half time teacher, time paraeducator?

[Kylie [last name unknown] (UVM graduate student; Charlotte Central School)]: That is what I'm currently doing this year. That was the position I was given at the beginning of the year, but I am transitioning next school year to a full time special educator.

[Unidentified Committee Member A]: That that will help with your finances. Yes. Thank you for the work, Peter. Yes.

[Kylie [last name unknown] (UVM graduate student; Charlotte Central School)]: Thank you.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Thank you, Kylie. Okay, we can go ahead.

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: Hello everyone.

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: Thank you all for having me and thank you to the chair and the vice chair for the opportunity to speak. My name is Maya George and I'm from just down the road in Morristown, Vermont. I'm a senior at UVM, and I major in early childhood education, birth through age eight. And I also hold a certificate in place based education, learning within community and from the land. Last Friday was my last day of student teaching in a first grade classroom, and I got to spend most of it in a forest classroom tagging one tree with each of my students for each of them to care for for years to come with volunteers from the Four Winds program. It was absolutely an idyllic final day, not just because it was a beautiful spring day and I got to spend it with curious young minds, but because I've learned throughout my time at UVM all of the ways that this type of learning will transform the lives of my students. That learning is authentic and tied to place and context is profoundly impactful. That interdisciplinary education that links all subjects to a common and child motivated thread, like caring for their tree, is a powerful way to make lasting connections and learning experiences for students at Vermont. In addition to why, I've also learned how to tie together all of the many, and there certainly are many, pieces at play when teaching young and very young learners in an ever changing world through my time at UVM. I'm a recipient of UVM's Green and Gold scholarship, which is a full tuition scholarship awarded to one senior from each high school in Vermont each year. This scholarship is the sole reason I decided to attend UVM. I wanted to go out and explore beyond the state, but I chose not to, to choose an affordable education, and I couldn't be happier that I stayed. Through my program at UVM, I've been in field placements for five out of my eight total semesters, and I even spent one of these semesters teaching in a preschool internship and traveling around Auckland, New Zealand. In Burlington, I worked in private centers, head start programs and public schools for practicum and for work. And all throughout, I got to take classes with a cohort of students and faculty who are deeply passionate about teaching theories and philosophies, which have shaped the educator I've become. UVM has the unique opportunity to provide varied access to different types of educational settings for field placements, including outdoors based, urban and even study abroad teaching internships like the one that I participated in. In my four years at UVM, I've learned the theories behind teaching practices while implementing them and watching their impact in real time. But not all of my peers have been as privileged. Many of my colleagues and mentors at centers I worked at in Burlington and beyond struggled to afford attending programs like mine and or to pay for the cost of living in the area of their teaching salaries. Many of my coworkers left for Boston this past fall from a head start center that I was working in, and they had to close a 12 student preschool classroom as a result of this. This means that most educators leave Vermont or they're not able to receive the education that they deserve as educators and that their students deserve to receive from them. My hope is that receiving high quality educator preparation like I have had the privilege to do at UVM is more accessible to my colleagues like it was to me through the Greening Gold Scholarship, which has shaped my ability to become the teacher that I am. Thank you all for your

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: time and I'm happy to take any questions.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: What's sort of the next step in your evolution as a teacher?

[Veronica Stanford (UVM senior, Elementary Education)]: That's a great

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: question. I am really hoping to work towards more place based education, which is kind of my passion. And my eventual long term goal is I'd love to go back to teaching first grade and be able to bring more outdoor learning and place based education into my teaching, which means that my next step is actually to be the office manager and ropes course director at a summer camp that is Waldorf based and tied to school. So I'm hoping to develop my abilities to work outdoors with children more and then go back into a teaching.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Thank very much. Thank you. Morning.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: Hello,

[Troy Riddle (UVM graduate, Secondary Social Studies)]: House's Committee on Education. My name is Troy Riddle. My goal with this testimony is to share my experience as a student educator. Before beginning, I'd like to thank chair Peter Conlon, vice chair Beth Quimby, the whole of the committee on education for this opportunity. I've been a sixteen year student of Vermont Public Schools who has ended their educational experience as a graduate from the University of Vermont. I hope to get a degree in secondary education with a focus on history and social studies. I hail from Jericho, and I was a student at MME. I'm gonna start by explaining my reasons for why I went into the field of education, what drove me to this field, and what kept me here, and then I'll detail my experience as a novice educator, what issues I find with the job market, and what challenges, students are facing within the classroom. For a lot of Vermont students, high school is a vital time of identity discovery. I was a sophomore and junior year high school student through the COVID nineteen pandemic and experienced the implementation of the proficiency based grading systems. I've been a student through both Trump presidencies. Vermont has educational institutions with some of the kindest and most caring people I have ever experienced, and even then, they sometimes struggle to provide direction for young students. I think for a lot of educators, we've encountered a wall that the path that many generations have experienced to give them their upward social class mobility through education no longer exists. For the average American living paycheck to paycheck, educational opportunities have been removed or closed at the behest of failing social welfare and the private sector's invasion into the formerly public services. As someone who mentors high school students, I can anticipate the pathways for students, better standards of living, being more constrained. When I was a high school student, thinking about what I could provide for my community under these closing economic and educational constraints, there was a set of constant truths that I internalized. People need food, children need education, and workers need homes. I made my decision to continue my learning in this field based on these principles. I didn't arrive at this conclusion blank. I saw how costly the education I would be receiving was. I saw my father's job as a paraeducator, my mother's job as a food service worker in an elementary school, and it gave me pause. I didn't know how much it would set me back, how much debt I would be stuck with. I heard horror stories from other adults about the grueling process of loan repayment. I was afraid that the decisions that young people made in the past to better themselves was actually a vehicle for predatory loans and a life debt repayment. I was afraid that the pathway that was formerly set in stone had been eroded, and it was impassable for students such as myself. Programs like the VT teacher grant gave parts of that lost pathway back to students who might not have otherwise survived the cruel reality of profit centered education. I applied in 2024 and was awarded one year of paid college tuition through this program, saving my family around $16,000 Not only did this grant give me a greater reason to stay in Vermont, but it was a motivating factor for me to teach. I saw that grant as a promise from the state to me. I thought to myself, I will pay back this debt to the state. I will educate my fellow Vermonters, and I will find a place in the state where they need me. This grant opportunity was a force that drove me to continue in the field of education. I now leave UVM with small amounts of debt, but still an amount that is noticeable. When I look at the labor market now, I have deep concerns from my fellow graduates and my generation. My cohort of learners and friends around me have struggled with finding employment. Consistently, my friends and I have found temporary work in food service, tech support, retail, childcare, tutoring, paraeducating, substitute teaching, and counseling. The trends from these forms of work is clear. The new generation, Gen Z specifically, is stuck with jobs that focus on emotional labor. Not only are we expected to work in low paying jobs, but we are also expected to produce constant levels of empathy and compassion for the people we interact with. This is an unsustainable labor demand leading to high levels of burnout, stress, mental health issues, and prolonged unemployment. How we, as the state of Vermont, resolve this issue is by prioritizing financial stability. The current cost of living in Vermont is not sustainable. The housing crisis that we are experiencing post COVID is not just trapped in the college town of Burlington, it spreads to the rest of the state. It's hard as someone entering the workforce to look at the rising cost in college, housing, goods and services, and choose to be a teacher. Education should not be a career for only the selfless and sacrificial. Everyone should feel compelled to become an educator. When I entered my student teaching program, I finally got to experience what the more realized picture of education was. Not just the management of the classroom, but the management of a community, a community of diverse educators and students, each interconnected with the outcome of producing empathetic citizens, learners, and workers. When I was in my student teaching, I felt that community. My work as a student teacher was valuable not just to me, but also to my fellow educators and students. I think these programs are vital and essential and must be supported to benefit future educators. It is also clear that these student teaching internships require funding. We cannot expect future teachers to work without pay. Stipends for student teachers have become are becoming the norm in other states, and I feel that we should follow the state of Vermont. As this may be the only time that I am able to address this committee, I would also like to speak to challenges that students are facing within the classrooms. Firstly, students' lives are more digital than ever. Students perceive, create, and engage with complex digital spaces that are developed and funded by private equity, and we as educators are often sidelined in that conversation. We are highly trained, educated voices on students' brain and behavioral development, and we are being removed from providing input on how students engage with these digital spaces that are inherently harmful. I believe that schools need to be given the ability to regulate their digital environments just as much as their physical classrooms. Students' digital lives are also inherently global, which presents additional challenges. What students see around the world in the media affects them greatly. Our actions as the state of Vermont and the country of The United States get internalized by those students and shape how they perceive the worth of their education. Students become desensitized or feel helpless to change the many wars, crises, and conflicts they are shown. I believe it makes potential educators less willing to involve themselves in these classroom environments if they feel that students are hopeless or detached from their learning. The second challenge in the classroom is students' access to generative AI services. When I am asked by non educators about my work, they often ask how I and the whole state of Vermont is addressing this issue. These tools, these generative AI tools, track student data. They're trained from the information provided to them by students. They often plagiarize and take from false sources. In my opinion, there should be no home in our schools and public institutions for these services. Generative AI tools take away student autonomy, thinking in the classroom, as well as in some very tragic and real cases, drive students to harm themselves and others. Plainly stated, I believe that ChatGPT and its are dangerous for our students and shouldn't be in our schools. I believe that as a state, we need to hold a firm boundary. We have the data and the studies that justify this position against AI in the classroom, and I believe we need to draw a line to protect our students and our staff from these invasions of privacy and promote actions against the adoption of AI into the classroom. Third is a lack of direction for our younger men and boys. Young men and boys are a difficult subject to inherently approach because they have many different influences they are exposed to during their cognitive development. But the overwhelming cultural trend has been to expose young men to harmful stereotypes. Digital content creators promoting bigoted, sexist, racist, and homophobic ideas have been allowed to warp the minds of our young male students. While as educators, excuse me, we as educators and as a state have a direct imperative to stop students from harming themselves, that is psychologically, physically, financially, and mentally. As a young man who grew up exposed to these influences, I was only able to break out of these harmful ideas through a caring and motivated community. Our schools should be these spaces to rectify harms, change students engage with these influences and adapt how they think about themselves and others, promoting radical empathy. I arrive now at the end of my testimony here. I leave here hoping that there is a place for me. Even with my stalwart motivation, the market is tight for novice educators. Perhaps in a few years, there will be a different story. If I had one final message for this committee, it would be to act proactively rather than reactively. We cannot be at the whims of forces that seek to attack education, whether that be dealing with sabotaging federal bodies or profit seeking tech infestations. We need to be proactive in dealing with these forces. This committee is a vital part of Vermont's educational future in its hands, more substantially than I do as one citizen, and I urge you to continue listening to educators and ask how schools are managing these crises. I hope that there can be many more educators after me who find their place through Vermont schools and choose to remain in Vermont and through our programs that we have in. To secure this outcome, we need to prioritize our schools, our communities, and our students first. I once again thank this committee for hearing my testimony, and I am willing to answer additional questions.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Probably it would be benefit to the committee to just sit here for a minute. Hang on a brief second. I can do a quick bit, just a little more practical than speaking to. Think one of the things that we have the ability to do, first, we had the forgivable loan program, which we have been unable to fund consistently. It to me was a brilliant program because not only it encouraged to stick with teaching, but we were funding those people who were frankly already in Vermont, living someplace or already had housing of some kind that they could hopefully continue with. Anyway, it has come up a couple of times about the fact that student teaching is not paid for, and that some states have moved to a stipend for student teaching. If we had to pick between those two options, which would be a more effective option? Stipends for student teaching or the forgivable loan fund?

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: Can I just clarify, would both of them with the expectation of teaching in Vermont? Yes,

[Troy Riddle (UVM graduate, Secondary Social Studies)]: I would say from my perspective that the forgivable loan programs are more successful because they offer, first of all, they offer grander sums of money that have actual semi contractual or semi obligational things behind them, and that is a motivating factor for some students. I know especially because I was a Vermont student who received this, and it was something that I already wanted to do and already planned to do. This was beneficial to me along my career pathway. I think that way is functioning. If we want to have people remain in Vermont specifically. I know that may be difficult for some students who are from out of state who are attending the UVM program, as they would probably be more eminent or they would rather want the stipend program rather than the remaining in Vermont program.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Both would come with a requirement.

[Troy Riddle (UVM graduate, Secondary Social Studies)]: Oh, okay. In the case where both is required that educators stay, I believe the loan program would successful.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Would folks agree with that? I realize it all depends on what individual circumstances.

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: Right. Exactly.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: It would apply to graduate school as well.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: The one clarification I would get, and I think this is something smart that Michigan has done, is that the forgivable loan is only available during junior and senior year. Have seen a few cases where students have gotten their first year coming in, I mean, had four majors my freshman year in college, you know, so they don't know exactly that the loan actually does. My short answer, though, would be yes.

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: Are you working in Vermont next year?

[Troy Riddle (UVM graduate, Secondary Social Studies)]: I hope to be. I'm applying to different places, but specifically with high school and specifically with the field of history, it's a very shorter market. People really like their positions in the classroom and are very against the idea of retirement.

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: Mean, I'm

[Unidentified Committee Member A]: sure I

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: could cancel things shipped a lot in the late spring and summer.

[Troy Riddle (UVM graduate, Secondary Social Studies)]: We find to be very much attentive come on.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: Yes, yeah.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Thank you Charlie, appreciate it. I'd recommend for the committee maybe have these folks back in a year from now.

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: Good morning. My name's Campbell McClellan, and I'm a senior at the University of Vermont studying middle level education, and I'm from Queensbury, New York. And I plan on teaching seventh and eighth grade math at Edmonds Middle School next fall. And it's with extreme gratitude and many thanks. And I'm here today speaking to the chair, the vice chair, and the committee. So thank you. And I think I want to become an educator. Oh, think, gosh, it's like that. I know I want to become an educator because I love community and connection.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And I

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: believe that at the heart of any community is the school. And people have always told me that it takes a special person to teach middle school. And I believe that my education at the University of Vermont has prepared me to take on the unique nuances of middle grades and young adolescents at LeCate. What makes the middle level education program at the University of Vermont special is our distinct focus on the students in grades five through nine, a group of more than 21,000,000 young adolescents in The US who are navigating one of the most dynamic and formative stages of their development. These students are often overlooked and underheard, yet their experience, identities and growth deserve focus and attention and advocacy. The middle level program prepares future educators to understand both the academic and social emotional needs of adolescents, which feels different from traditional elementary or secondary pathways. This program gets us into middle schools early and often. For my very first semester at UVM, I've had practicums at middle schools throughout Vermont, giving me insight to the realities of middle school classrooms and the confidence to teach at this level. As I gain more classroom experience, feedback from mentors, and opportunities to reflect, I've become more comfortable adapting lessons, managing behaviors, and building relationships with my students. The preparation program creates space to make mistakes, reflect, and improve before becoming fully responsible of my own classroom. This gradual development is something a fast track program may not provide at the same depth. This education preparation program has also helped me understand that teaching than delivering content. Effective teaching involves understanding students' developmental needs, creating inclusive environments and collaborating with families and colleagues and continuously reflecting on my practice. Having a structured preparation at UBM has made me feel more prepared not only to teach lessons, but to respond thoughtfully to the real challenges and responsibilities of being a middle level educator. One thing I wish I had available during my education preparation experience was stronger financial support during my student teaching. Student teaching is essentially a full time job, but many teacher candidates are unpaid while also balancing tuition, transportation, housing and other living expenses. During my student teaching year, I had two jobs on top of my student teaching and UBM responsibilities, often leaving home at 06:30AM and returning at 11PM with no breaks just to do it all over again. This financial pressure can make the student teaching experience stressful and can even discourage some students from entering or completing the preparation programs. Having stipends, student teaching opportunities or additional financial aid would allow future teachers to focus more fully on their developing, practicing and supporting all their students. Thank you again for your time, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Thank you. So you have found middle schoolers to be a particularly enchanting group of students to teach?

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: Yes. Of course.

[Unidentified Committee Member A]: God bless. Yes. We

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: hear it all. You said that, right? Yep.

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: I hear from being in a lot of different middle schools. We have three high school teachers on the committee here. Retire high school.

[Unidentified Committee Member A]: I'm coming to middle school in September. The

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: ability to be in different schools and classrooms is so interesting and important. And once you're in the field, I think one the biggest challenges is you're in your school, you're in your classroom. I wonder some of the observations or generalities that you've drawn from being in a lot of different middle schools around the state, if you have any kind of high level observations or common threads you've seen. Yeah, I think the biggest thing I

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: would take away from observing all these costumes is flexibility, honestly, because we're in such a complicated world right now. And a million things are happening. And our students, our middle school students, as you know, they're different every single day. They're going through puberty. Everything is changing. So seeing classrooms that aren't just teaching to the content but teaching to their students in their class has been the biggest takeaway. And then just having the flexibility to stop your math class and say, oh, wow, this big thing just happened in our world. How are we? Let's talk about it. Or just attending to the distance.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I'm curious, Campbell, and maybe the others as well, is there a tendency to almost feel resentful that every time we turn around, you have to stop and say, well, we're gonna take a pause on delivering content because some other big thing has happened in the world and and sort of constantly having to adjust to, frankly, y'all probably grew up a lot that way after introduced, so you're accustomed to it. But to me, it'd be like, wow, know? Once again, have to

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: readjust. I think you need to readjust. I think the benefits of readjusting outweighs the impact and the harm that not addressing it would have.

[Troy Riddle (UVM graduate, Secondary Social Studies)]: If I could also speak to that question, that certainly comes up in social studies classrooms. I often enter rooms, I speak with my mentor teacher saying, all right, how much time do we want to devote to this at the top and how much time do we need to spend on content for today? There is a real difficult balance, especially in a lot of the communities classrooms, of how much time do we need to spend talking about in the moment actions and how much time do we need to spend spend a whole day on this issue. When the Iran conflict started, I spent a whole day of lessons just talking about it in all of my classrooms. And that is something that being my mentor teacher had decided was the best use of time.

[Unidentified Committee Member A]: Yes. I'm wondering in your experiences with UBM classrooms or with mentor teachers, have you had conversations about maybe what not to say in a classroom when it comes to addressing things that are happening in the world? Like, do you feel like your hands are tied? I feel like we're very lucky to live in Vermont. I pretty much say whatever I wanna say in my classroom, so I'm just wondering if those conversations are being had or whether you're feeling empowered to handle those situations in the classroom as they come up in the way that you think is best for kids.

[Troy Riddle (UVM graduate, Secondary Social Studies)]: I can speak to that. Think UBN very much gives a lot of power to its educators, saying that in your classrooms, you have the flexibility to address what you need to feel like you need to address in moments of crisis, in moments of conflict. I think I certainly feel empowered as an educator that we don't have the idea of just, well, don't talk about it, don't address it. All things can be addressed in the classroom and should be brought up if needed.

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: I would also add that I think our programs tend to focus quite heavily on what do children need to develop and to help be humans and citizens. And I think for me as a teacher, it's way more important that my students leave the classroom being able to solve problems with each other and communicate and to regulate their emotions in a really stressful and ever changing world and less important that they're learning the content. While that's still a big focus of my day, it is of utmost importance that they're learning those transferable skills. And I think that we learn time and time again at UVM how to do that in every course.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So JAMES and then Charlie.

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: When having those difficult conversations too, and then talking about having those social, emotional, and regularization transferable skills, I think that it's important that it's not more of the teacher talking about these events and current events that are happening, but it's it's a student led discussion. And then they're sharing their opinions and insights into it. It's that's that's where the learning

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: happens. Kylie?

[Kylie [last name unknown] (UVM graduate student; Charlotte Central School)]: Yeah. So in my experience, I'm I'm in a k eight school, so I work across all grade bands. So with current topics, we tend to open that discussion even at the younger age. And even though academics are very important, we found that it helps them become more connected in their outside community and along with inside their community because they have that safe space to ask questions and be curious along with, like, things that they hear on the radio or on the TV. So it's really important to keep academics just but also open those discussions if students feel they need to, even in the younger grades.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Beth, did you have a question?

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: I was

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: just going make

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: a comment. I was a middle school math teacher for over thirty years.

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: Best I mentioned that, we forgot.

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: You just counted when I came off our roster. So foundational, so important, those middle grade years.

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: So, definitely, they're never dull. So we wish you luck with that.

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: Thank you. Definitely need more and more middle school

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: math teachers.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: You live to tell about

[Unidentified Committee Member A]: it. Yes. Thank

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: you, Campbell.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: Yeah. Another thing I think is important is that teachers can't be experts in everything. So if we have we we these these these competitions are essential with kids. But we have students who are placed at you know, students who are placed in Winooski. And in the middle of when ice raids are going on, we can't be giving kids advice as to how to how to deal with that. But at the same time, the kids are if they're coming to school, they're coming to school very scared and making them comfortable on the school so that you can get to the curriculum. It's essential, but it's incredibly difficult. That was a part of my teacher training.

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: Good morning, everybody. Good morning. My

[Veronica Stanford (UVM senior, Elementary Education)]: name is Veronica Stanford and I am a senior elementary education major with a minor in coaching originally from Stonesborough, Pennsylvania. I would like to start off by saying thank you to the chair, vice chair and committee for giving me this opportunity to be speaking here today. Today, I will briefly tell you why I decided to pursue a degree in elementary education, specifically at the University of Vermont, and why this decision has more than adequately prepared me to officially enter the field of teaching for this upcoming school year. As I was beginning the college search process, I was nearly certain I wanted to pursue a degree in education, but I genuinely did not know at what institution I wanted to attend. Being a Pennsylvania native, choosing one of the state schools for higher education would have been a simple and cheap choice, especially because the colleges and universities in the Pennsylvania state school system have a reputation for good educator preparation programs. However, when I started looking into these programs, it was never very clear to me if I would have observations and practicums in real schools leading up to my final student teaching during my senior year, or if the final student teaching would be the only classroom experience guaranteed by these state programs. I would also like to note that as of today, it is possible that these schools in Pennsylvania may have changed their programs to require more experience before their student teaching. However, a lack of hands on opportunities with real students and teachers in elementary school was simply not my reality five years ago. Knowing that at the time I was not completely sure that I would pursue an undergraduate degree in education, knew I wanted to participate in a program at a university that had practicums and guaranteed various opportunities for me to be in a school setting before my senior year. This way, in the event I decided to not become an educator, I would know this early on in my time in college, rather than coming to this realization during my senior year during student teaching, where at that point it would be nearly impossible to switch majors and still graduate on time. Because of this, I began looking at colleges and universities outside of the PA state school system, and this is when I became aware of UVM and what their elementary education program had to offer to me. When I was on my tour of UVM, I learned that all educator licensure programs in the state of Vermont require candidates to complete a minimum of sixty hours in the field, in addition to a two week long solo teaching experience. Because of the three practicums leading up to the culminating student teaching senior year, UVM education students complete between six hundred and nine hundred hours in their respective fields. As I mentioned before, when I was applying to college, I was almost certain I wanted to be an educator, but there was still a bit of doubt in my mind. So hearing that at UVM, I would get three different opportunities provide by my program to have multiple hands on learning experiences with real students and local elementary schools instead of just being thrown into student teaching like I would have been at other colleges I was interested in. This was the single biggest reason that I chose UVM. Now that I'm on the precipice of graduating, looking back on my entire college experience, I cannot be more grateful for my time at UVM, specifically due to the relationships I formed in the elementary education program. Even though I began this educator preparation program with some hesitancy hesitancy because I was not completely sure if I wanted to become an educator, the moment I began my first practicum experience sophomore year, I knew that becoming an educator was the right path for me. If I had gone to a different university besides UVM, I would have been living with a constant fear that education was not the right path for me because during my first few years on campus, I never would have had the opportunity to be in different schools applying what I learned in the college classroom to real students in the school environment. And I would have had to wait until I was a senior to see if education was the right path for me. UVM's unique practicum experiences before student teaching is what set this institution apart for me and why ultimately I chose to pursue a career in education in Vermont. Next year, I'll be teaching third grade at BFA Fairfax, and this opportunity would not have been possible without UVM's educator preparation program that has set me up for success.

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: Will now happily answer any questions that you may have for me.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: On what year were you when you first stepped inside of the classroom?

[Veronica Stanford (UVM senior, Elementary Education)]: It was my first semester sophomore year.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah, thought that was really really young.

[Veronica Stanford (UVM senior, Elementary Education)]: Yeah, especially like when I was like in the college search process, like at the other schools, like it really was just senior year student teaching. So I was like, I don't know if I wanna wait that long, preparing me for this big thing and then realize I don't want to

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: do that. Yeah,

[Veronica Stanford (UVM senior, Elementary Education)]: Yeah. And it was definitely a scary thing to consider

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: for sure. In general, every year we sort of hear from UVM and our state college system as well when they ask for funding. And one thing they remind us is that our colleges in Vermont bring in lots of folks from out of state, then you get pulled, it sticks, and they stay. And so you're a great example of that. Terrific. Did you waver during from sophomore year to senior year? Did you say, Nope, maybe not.

[Veronica Stanford (UVM senior, Elementary Education)]: With education as a whole, but my first practicum experience sophomore year was in a first grade classroom and I didn't have a great mentor. So I was like, Oh,

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: I don't know if elementary is the

[Veronica Stanford (UVM senior, Elementary Education)]: right path for me. Then I went home over winter break and I was observing in middle school classrooms. And I was like, no, that's definitely not for me. So then I definitely stuck with elementary and that was definitely the right path.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Go ahead.

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: Patrick, I so appreciate the qualitative testimony here, and this stuff is so important. Generally, in terms of the trends at UVM, in terms of the programs being full, interest numbers, what has that looked like in recent years?

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: We've been really quite, well, it's an interesting question. We've been quite steady in our admissions. We've been quite steady across programs. There's a little fluctuation year to year that we see. But over time, for the last decade or so, we have about 150 completers every senior K-twelve? Pre K-twelve, yeah. First of twenty one. The one difference that I think we're seeing, I don't have cadavers, this is a little bit more of a vibe, is that it does feel as though

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: we have more folks who

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: are completing the program but then opting not to actually go to the classroom. Or they're seeking alternative type settings. Maya talks about working in a camp setting, an alternative education setting. So we see it feels as though we see a little bit more of folks who are like, it's just not what I want to do. I'm happy with the experience I'm happy with my placement, but I don't know that I can dedicate careers to that, which is fine. Having teachers leave the field after five years, that's actually probably a little bit faster than that now, and that's been a trend for twenty five, thirty years. So it's a hard career to sustain. Thirty years is amazing.

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: Hard for a long time. It's just to be on track over time, so how long folks stay at Edmunds and BFA?

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: Not well. It's really good to hard.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah, it's really it's hard.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: You're limited to your response. Right, right, yeah. The alumni association said, I've who we

[Maya George (UVM senior, Early Childhood Education)]: done some of those surveys over the years

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: that I haven't been good about responding to I

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: know, I

[Campbell McClellan (UVM senior, Middle Level Education)]: was thinking,

[Unidentified Committee Member B]: I respond all in one subject.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Great. Thank you, not just for your information on the UVM program and teaching in Vermont, but frankly, just the perspective of people your age as you sort of enter the workplace. Also, just want I appreciate you all acknowledging the chair and vice chair. Actually, it was our committee assistant, Matt, who put all of this together.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: Yay. And so I wanna

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: express appreciation for that as well. It's great. Anything else from the committee members? It's good luck, you

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: know, it's the hardest job ever, and it's probably one of

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: the most fulfilled. So it's my job too. To get through the building, see our beautiful state house.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: Great. You. One from mine, left the new Red Hen that just opened up.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Oh, I got some comments.

[Patrick Halladay (Director of Educator Licensure, UVM)]: Great. Thank you. Thank you.