Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Speaker 0]: House Education, March 26. Continue our discussion on our language. Graph 5.1. We have some changes from our last version. We're gonna walk through those now. Ask any questions, provide any feedback, think about next steps. And then we will probably break, go to the floor for a while, and then come back. Alright, Beth, I'm gonna turn it over to you. Welcome back.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Hey, James. Excuse me. Office of Legislative Counsel. So we're gonna get a draft 5.1, which is based on our conversation this morning. We're gonna jump right to page 20. And I should have added a new color to the top of our our key here. Bear with me. I've introduced a new color. Anywhere where of highlighting. Anywhere that you've put in a date that is not a date specific but a range of days, I've tried to put an approximation of what that date would be based on counting backwards to help you. So we'll see that when we get there. Okay, so the first change- Before

[Speaker 0]: you start, just a little more context for the committee. When we broke up last time, Beth and I and Mark from VSBA had just kind of a conversation about structuring dates, and we kind of talked about the idea of, okay, what's our end date? And would it be town meeting day twenty twenty eight? And then using that and kind of working backwards. I'm not quite sure how everything falls in, but just to kind of Yeah, keep that

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: thirty days to play with. So right now with timeline, the dates, and then the rate, the day ranges we had this morning, you end up around 02/01/2028.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. Alright.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So in order to get to town meeting day, you've got different places where you can extend timelines. Okay.

[Speaker 0]: But we've only got thirty days to play, that's what you're saying.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: To get to town meeting, to get to March 1. Okay, so union school district creation consultation facilitation, that's where we're beginning. The first date we've added here is that the facilitators need to be hired on or before September 1. I've highlighted in green the reference to the seesaws being the employers of the facilitators, because that seems to be an open policy question. Line 14 on page 20, study committees. And as we continue to work on this draft, I'll see if there's a more eloquent way to do this, but to get you guys language for now, on or before 11/01/2026, A and B need to happen. So, is that the facilitator is grouping school districts into the study committees. And then I've added that this facilitator shall consult with school district boards prior to final membership. And then B, and then all the same criteria remains. And then also on 11/01/2026, each study committee shall hold its first meeting. We go and the next, we go to to page 22. This may require a tee up from the chair.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay.

[Speaker 0]: The same conversation we sort of talked about trying to be a little more prescriptive for what the study committee needs to do. It's interesting because in chapter 11, it's not very prescriptive, as we saw, in the language that we have for if you wanna withdraw from a district, it's actually quite prescriptive. So I asked Beth to sort of take some of that and pop it over to here.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: The way I have formatted this is that there's two different requirements, one for a report that recommends a school district formation and one if you don't recommend school district formation. That is for no reason other than I didn't ask that clarifying question when we were together. So if you determine that both reports should contain the same analysis, your next draft will reflect that.

[Speaker 0]: Just initially, I would say, if you're not gonna be advisable, if it's not advised, then probably just need the same level of

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: It does not need the same Okay. We'll do a refresher over what the inadvisable report requires. If a study committee formed pursuant to the section determines that it is advisable to propose formation of a new union school district in addition to the report requirements that are in current law, which is A report analyzing the strengths and challenges of the current structures of all necessary and advisable school districts and outlining the ways in which a union school district promotes the state policy set forth in section one of this chapter. So in addition to that, the report needs to include an analysis of the following. And these are broadly taken from the withdrawal statutes. The educational advantages and disadvantages likely to result from the formation of the proposed Unified Union School District. Financial advantages and disadvantages likely to result from the formation of the proposed Unified Union School District, the likely operational and financial viability and sustainability of the proposed new Unified Union School District, and any other advantages or disadvantages of formation of the proposed Unified Union School District, including any advantages or disadvantages to the students and taxpayers of the region and the state.

[Speaker 0]: That sort of beefs up education and get students in there as well. It's probably a good thing.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I think this is all policy and we can change this. The way that the withdrawal statute is set out is that someone's leaving a union school district. And so the analysis is two part there for every one of these. It's what are the advantages and disadvantages to staying whole and what are the advantages and disadvantages to someone leaving? That's not really applicable to what you're doing here, so I've just broadly conformed them to this. So you can make them whatever you want.

[Speaker 0]: This is good, but I get it. You guys are welcome to speak up.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: And this does not include the articles of agreement. The articles of agreement are a separate requirement that are gonna have all kinds of choices in them. So this is what we currently have for the inadvisable report, and that is the names, the districts participating and analysis of the strengths and challenges of the current structures at all necessary and advisable school districts. The reasons why formation would be inadvisable with specific references to any state law or rule that was found to be an impediment with an analysis of why such law or rule was an impediment. And if the decision was not unanimous, what's the minority view? And then we're jumping out to number four here. Within six months of a study committee's first meeting, each study committee shall complete its final report. So that would put you at approximately 05/01/2027. And then we've added a requirement here. So the report first goes to the member school boards. And so you've given each school board sixty days from receipt of the report and the proposed articles of agreement to review and provide comments according to current law. That would put you around July 1.

[Speaker 0]: So I would just ask the committee, because it hit me in the gut. This is just a gut reaction that six months is pretty ambitious. We can extend that, pick up our thirty days there. That would be as good a place as I think, June 1, yeah, about six months, pick it. Seven months just seems like a weird number to pick. Go ahead, Dan.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: You said seven months. A weird number to pick,

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: but I'm still wondering if the school board needs sixty days to put comment back on it. I'm wondering if that is long. I know it's all ambitious, but I'd gain my thirty days there instead of and leave myself thirty days to play with. Because my assumption is

[Speaker 0]: they know what's going on. Shorten the sixty to thirty. But yeah. And that it gains us another thirty.

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: And there's your thirty days.

[Speaker 0]: I I Again,

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: this is all in flux.

[Speaker 0]: I I like that because I agree with you. There should be constant communication between the two anyway. I agree that we're running into a

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: messy schedule of board meeting in the summits. That's what I

[Speaker 0]: was gonna say.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: And on top of that, I would also wonder why we need to say six months. We could just say within the, you know, within, by, on or before.

[Speaker 0]: Okay, let's do June 1.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: June 1 and then do it that, skip the months.

[Speaker 0]: I agree.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. It's on or before June 1. So thirty days. Yep.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Are we I'm nervous about that. We just put I that out know these are still doable, but I'd love to hear feedback from the field on whether that's doable because

[Speaker 0]: Time reading day 2028 deadline, we'll have to change up to thirty for now. Oh no, because we've already No. We have all your stuff that we have available to us.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Did you wanna change number five to 30, school board review, or are we keeping that?

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: I think that was gonna be by June 1, right? So we're change

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: No, June 1 is number four. Oh,

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: I'm sorry. Yeah, if we're gonna add a month there, I'd like to Oh, that's seven months, so that makes it thirty days.

[Speaker 0]: So we've just used up the available 30. We could gain another 30 by shortening the school board receipt. Six. Whether you need it or not.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: And we still say it's get set.

[Speaker 0]: Let's keep it at 60 then.

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: This is gonna be $6.01, and this is gonna be seven, Norm,

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: or that becomes 8. Number five

[Speaker 0]: It becomes eight.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Will become if it stays 60, then blue would be August. August.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah. We're have to work over the summer to Now you've used it. Thanks.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Can we keep the language the same as what

[Speaker 0]: we suggested in five, honor before?

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: Policy choice. I'm just I like honor before.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Honor before? Okay.

[Speaker 0]: I'd

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: like that too. August 1? Yep.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. Actually, clear.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Much. Yes. Much. No one's counting days. Do weekends count?

[Speaker 0]: Exactly. That's why

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I keep saying approximately, is I did not count on my calendar. Okay. So the next step is the secretary review. You've given the secretary sixty days, which is now October 10. Do you want to just say October 10? First. October 1. Sorry, October 1. On October 1?

[Speaker 0]: Yeah. So if we're gonna do that, we'll just carry forward with D. Our calendaring work.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: They get sixty days so that Self records, self records. And then I think here you get it gets real interesting because this is gonna if you give them ninety days, it puts you out to March 1. That's a problem. I don't don't think you need to use that. That's that's not gonna work. I think you can get creative here.

[Speaker 0]: That would just be

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Meeting day or I mean, the vote has to occur on the same day. So it can't be the annual meeting of the member school districts because they might all have different annual meetings.

[Speaker 0]: It would be the same time meeting day. Okay.

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: Yeah. And it wouldn't have to be town meeting day, it

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: just all has to be

[Dan (Unidentified participant)]: the same day. So it could be a special vote. Right? I mean, town meeting day makes sense, but it wouldn't have to be.

[Speaker 0]: It will be soon. All right, so we could have it say within one hundred and twenty days, but everybody's gonna be on the same day.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Common law already accounts for that. After eleven, it currently accounts for that. I was just referencing it. We can't refer to their annual meeting.

[Speaker 0]: So in accordance with 16 BSA seven ten means everybody on the same day.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Not every school, not every study committee, just the votes for each individual union school district.

[Speaker 0]: So within one hundred and twenty days in this case?

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I'll put you out to what, April 1?

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I think that captures most of the points. I would assume they would stick to whatever their regular

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So do you wanna say within one hundred and twenty days or on or before April 1?

[Speaker 0]: Okay. So there are probably places that their annual meeting is, like, April 15 or May. So we can't accommodate that, so maybe we stick with town meeting day because we do vote on other stuff.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: But still, on or before April 1 would allow for Tommy Pharrion? Yes. So mean, we're not gonna be able

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: to accommodate all those different things. This is an easy change for me to make if and when you change

[Speaker 0]: your mind. I'll go for you first. Okay.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Status report on or before 12/01/2026, the agency of education in consultation with the facilitators is required to submit a report to you all with information regarding the membership and status of each study committee. So you enter next session knowing what's going on, at least December 1. So by then, the study committees have formed, and they've held their first meeting, they've had a month. I always pick December 1 because I think about me and drafting them. But this will be the first year of the biennial, so that December 1 deadline is not crucial. You can push that out to January 1 or January 15 if you want to allow extra time to get more information.

[Speaker 0]: Yes. January 1? Yes. Twenty seventh? That would be very positive.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So then you will have had two months of study committee membership.

[Speaker 0]: Section

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: 13 is a big policy decision. Yep. It's where your map language is gonna go. Study committee results. I don't have anything in my notes that we talked about dates for this. This is the final report back. So on or before X, each facilitator shall submit a written report to you all with the results of each study committee overseen by this facilitator and then information regarding, And then this information has been traveling with this draft for a couple drafts at this point. You've got final votes having to occur by April 1. And then there's revotes and all kinds of things. It seems like this would be a report for the 2029 session. So let's see. It's '27 and '28. So '29 will be a new biennium. Deadline there doesn't necessarily affect me for drafting deadlines. January 1, December 1, January 15.

[Speaker 0]: January 1 sounds great.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: And when I say it affects me, it affects the work product I give you. That's really what I'm getting at. So that's 01/01/2029. Are we on the same page? Okay. Then used to be Section 15 used to be part of Section 14. It was the report back on boundary adjustments for SUs and CESAs. Now we have AOE doing this in consultation with the study committees formed pursuant to this act in the State Board of Education. So I just made it a separate section. Same due date, 01/01/2029, question mark.

[Speaker 0]: For now, yeah, let's do that.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: And then the same green highlighting in section 16 regarding funding.

[Speaker 0]: This is very helpful. Keep moving us. Let's take several steps forward. I appreciate everybody sort of saying, Yeah, okay, I agree with that. All right, everybody, if there are no other questions at the moment, I don't think we are providing you much in the way of forward

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I'll make those changes.

[Speaker 0]: And then let's tentatively reconvene here at three.

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Alright.

[Speaker 0]: I'll look for a text from Matt saying, because of what's going on on the floor, we might if we're in the middle of 07:22 or what's the other?

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Seven seventy two or nine.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, we're in middle of either 01:33

[Beth (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: or

[Speaker 0]: anything. There's no pressing reason for us to come back. Don't go. York. Was gonna shoot for We will do it we'll do this in reverse. Look for a text a to come back. Otherwise, we're not. Alright. Alright.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: I'm gonna do this in my house.