Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: This is House Education, 03/12/2026. We are a little bit of a small group today due to all kinds of factors, but we are gonna over the day with a bit of an overdue update as to the work of the State Board of Education between our time off and conflicts the week before. Normally, we try to do this right now for the most recent meetings. Anyway, we have with us the chair of the state board of education to just tell us what they're up to, where we could be helpful, and sort of any updates that we might have for them as well. Welcome, Jennifer. Thanks for joining us this morning.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: Sure. Thank you, Peter. Good morning, everyone. Jennifer.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Excuse me.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: Jennifer Dex Samuelson, chair of the Vermont State Board of Education. For the record

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Excuse me. Is it true that it's snowing down in your neck of the woods?

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: I honestly can't answer that question because I'm not in Vermont at the moment.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Oh, alright.

[Emily Long (Member)]: There you go.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: What I can tell you is that when I'm returning to Vermont tomorrow night, it will be snowing. It's a little unfortunate. Right. I think time is on our side.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Oh, well, thank you for joining us from from a distant way.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: Thanks. Yeah. Thank you. So the state board event had a pretty light February meeting, and I was just sort of refreshing my own memory, in advance of today's, testimony. And I think we didn't have any independent school approvals, that were brought before the board at our February meeting due to scheduling conflicts with members on that committee. I do know the committee met, I think it was last week. So we will have, a couple of schools that are being brought before the state board of ed for our March meeting next week. And I I know we're we're still addressing the backlog that was created, kind of started during COVID, and then there was a hiatus, while our rules were being updated and the agency was getting its form in place. So we are, you know, working diligently to clear that backlog. So that is one thing that did not happen in February, will happen in March, and we'll just keep chipping away at it. We also, in February, took some time to kind of clean up our delegation to various committees. So for instance, act 73, charges the State Board of Education with proposing or updating rule 2,200 as well as the EQS and rule series 2,000 to, reflect class size minimums. That work somehow ended up in the bucket of the student performance standards committee. And prior to that committee meeting, I just sort of had one of those flashbulb moments where I thought that's not the proper vehicle because the student performance standards committee authority derives from '16 VSA one sixty four nine, whereas class size minimums are, a change that was made by the legislature to 16 VSA one sixty five a nine. So we took some time to really clean that up. We stood up a class size minimum standards committee pursuant to the authority under act 73 and the new one sixty five v s a I'm sorry. 16 v s a one sixty five a nine. So that committee has been stood up. I do not believe that, they have met yet. And then we also just reaffirmed the charge for the student performance standards committee and noted that it is addressing anything that comes up pursuant to the board's authority in 16 VSA one sixty four nine. So those those were kind of, like, the two big things that happened in our February meeting. And then just looking forward to next week, I know that we're gonna have a presentation by the special education advisory panel, which is supposed to come before the board on a quarterly basis. That doesn't always happen given conflicting schedules. So we've had to postpone that a couple of times, but that will happen. And then we're also going to get a report from, our attorney, Sarah Buxton, as to the work that she's been doing on behalf of the board, recapping, you know, actively what she's doing on behalf of the board as well as what's been going on in the background in terms of reviewing the universe of what's in statute that has been assigned to the board so that we can really start looking at this universe of responsibilities and think about what is a relic of when the board oversaw what was then the, department of education and what makes sense for us to get rid of, what makes sense for us to keep, you know, really look at the low hanging fruit in that and then really get down to the the nuts and bolts of figuring the rest of it out.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Great. Thanks. Is that going to be a more challenging process than anticipated? Only because it's sort of been on the, you know, the agenda of of this committee and talking with the state board for, you know, years at this point.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: Well, so this is the first time we've actually had money behind it to allow us to do the work, so thank you for that. I believe that we are under a December deadline to get back to the general assembly with, the results of the work that we're doing. So the first phase is Sarah's collecting, all of these various charges that are in statute. And the other thing too, I mean, it's a little bit like New England architecture where things sort of get tacked on and tacked on and tacked on and tacked on. And I know that there are things that have been tacked on that don't dovetail back to the underlying original charge because, statute has changed in other ways in the meantime to kind of take out the the the original. So it's a little bit messy. At least at this point, I feel comfortable with saying that we ought to be able to, have a pretty good sense of where we are by December. But, again, first phase is Sarah collecting that information. And from there, I think we're gonna farm it out to the state board's roles and responsibilities committee. That committee is, like, up and ready to go. And I think once it goes to committee, then the committee will sort of do a deeper dive into that work and then bring proposals back to the full board before we then come back to the general assembly. So I'll let you know if if things change. And then in in terms of, you know, the financing for it, again, at this point, I feel pretty good about it. What I would say is that pot of money that was given to the state board of ed to do this work is enormously helpful. I would hope that going forward, there would continue to be a budget for the state board of ed to continue to have, counsel on retainer. And here's a for instance. The board received a tuition appeal that was brought pursuant to 16 VSA eight twenty eight. So under statute, if there has been a denial of, a request for tuition, that appeal is brought before the state board of ed. In the past, without an attorney, we've had to, put this out to bid to get a hearing officer. And even with a short form, it really takes about three months from the time that the need is identified until we actually have an attorney under contract who can then help the board. So there's a bit of a time lag there. Having an attorney on retainer, what that means and I'll just you know, I can tell you what's on the agenda. Can't tell you what happens until after we meet next week. But the idea is that we have an attorney who is already here to help the board. And, what I will be proposing to the full board and we'll take a vote on is to delegate to Sarah, this work to serve as the hearing officer and meet with the parties and then come back to the board with, her recommendations, you know, findings of fact and conclusions of law. And then, you know, my guess is that in another two months, maybe, the board will meet to review what Sarah's proposing, and then the board will act on that and then make a decision. So right there, it it's a huge time saver just to have an attorney on retainer who is already, able to pick up that work and go with it rather than having to go through the process to put something out to bid. So I would hope in the future that we will continue to have a pot of money, to have an attorney because I think we all know that the the board's interests are not aligned with the agency's interests. We cannot rely on agency counsel to help us. And, again, in this case, the agency will be one of the parties appearing before the board. So it would be super messy to have agency counsel assisting the board in which the agency is a party.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: How much did we allocate in act 73?

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: I believe it was $200,000.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay. Yep. And and you you the state board has generally gotten an annual appropriation to do some of its work.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: Correct. It's been about $70,000 per year for the last five years, I wanna say.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And that's to cover per diems as well. Right?

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: It covers per diems. It covers recording of our meetings by media factory. It covers, you know, when we meet in person. What else does it cover? I mean, it it basically covers the universe, and you've got I mean, there are 11 state board members, but one of them is the secretary. So I'm gonna take her out of the equation for a minute. You've got 10, you know, volunteer board members that get, you know, $50 per diem, and those 10 board members are living off of that $70,000 plus, you know, everything else that the board needs to pay for. And last year, as a for instance, the board didn't actually spend all of that $70,000. So it might be really easy to look at it and say, well, you know, you didn't spend it all. Why do you need more money? The problem was we actually wanted to engage in rulemaking last year, but we didn't have enough money in our budget. I mean, like, our request was denied because we didn't have enough money in our budget to pay an attorney to assist us with rulemaking. Right. So if we had more money, we would have, you know, had the money to pay for an attorney to help us. It kinda put us in this awkward position where we didn't have enough money to do the work that we wanted to do, but it left us with a surplus at the end of the year because we hadn't done the work. Right. The only silver lining with that is I was able to roll that surplus into the contract that we have with Sarah so that she is she has more money, which allows her to do the work that, has been contemplated by act 73 as well as assisting the board with our committee work, rule making because, you know, we are planning to reopen, both EQS and 2,200 by August 1 to address the class size minimums. So we've got, you know, that money to have an attorney assist us with rulemaking, and then, of course, the idea is that she would also serve as a hearing officer. So it gives us money to be able to do the work that I think everyone is expecting us to do.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Back to opening up 2,200 and class size minimums, has the agency provided guidance? I I think they were creating guidance to sort of help people out since the the law takes effect even if the rule place.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: I believe that they have. I know that they they do have guidance, and I believe that they have provided that guidance to the committee, but I'm not 100% sure. So I don't wanna, you know, say yes, then Yeah. I can get back to you on that.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Sure. Committee members, any any questions following the update here? Yep. Go ahead.

[Emily Long (Member)]: Well, it just occurred to me. This is representative Long, chair Samuelson. I was just curious about you mentioned 11 board members. Are we is the board full?

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: It is and we all know. At the moment, it's not full. Lyle Jepsen has been, he he stepped off the board. And so and I've I've spoken with the governor's office a few times about this. I know that they are working to replace him. I think, his replacement is probably not the fire that's burning brightest. So, and, actually, what I did hear from the governor's office is, because Lyle's term would end 02/28/2027, a lot of people have indicated that it's not really, you know, worthwhile, I guess, for lack of a better word, to step onto the board for what's now eleven months, ten and a half months. So I think they are having a little bit of an issue finding someone to serve out a very short term.

[Emily Long (Member)]: So so I guess my question now I I just looked it up, I saw the vacancy. You for answering that question. We changed in act 73 who gets points. So who so you're suggest you're saying that it's the governor's appointment. I'm looking actually to the chair for Yeah.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I think that I think that's correct. But when that term expires, I think it's been moved through the speaker of the house.

[Emily Long (Member)]: So that's

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: that okay.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: That's my understanding as well. So So can get those off the top priority

[Emily Long (Member)]: point, Brent. I I get it.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah. Just the hesitation. Yeah. Thank you. Yep.

[Emily Long (Member)]: Alright. Fine.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Alright. Well, Jennifer, thanks very much for the time this morning, and I'll, see you when the legislative committee meets, next week.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: Right. Well and and let me I I really do appreciate that because it's a little bit of attorney of the tables, but it's been really helpful for the board, to have this legislative review committee. And I don't know if your committee is aware, but, we've been meeting, and, representative Conlon has been coming. Senator Baumgart has been coming. We have, representative Kornheiser and senator Cummings, attending our meeting on Monday as well just to provide us with, the legislative update on how things are going, during the session as well as, you know, an open ended conversation about what does the board need to be aware of, and is there anything that the board can do to assist. So I think having this open conversation has been really helpful for the board as well just to make sure that we're kept in the loop on things. And I know that you guys are really busy, and, Peter, I appreciate you making the time to do this. So thank you.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Sure. Alright. Great. Thank you very much.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: Thank you.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Safe travels.

[Jennifer Samuelson (Chair, Vermont State Board of Education)]: Thanks.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Hey, everybody. Just a reminder of today's agenda. Mhmm. At ten, we'll we'll break until ten. Just a minute. We have the AOE coming in to present on early college based on request from committee members just to give us some data and detail on that. Eleven, we will work on the miscellaneous ed bill. And then we do lunch, and then we will return to the miscellaneous Ed bill after lunch and sort of continue our work on through. 02:15, we've got our usual time to talk about things. We'll see how productive we can be. We don't probably won't have anything new to put on the tape at that point, but that does bring me to Friday afternoon. I'm looking at it. And, you know, as we start as we start getting into longer floor time plus the work that we have been charged with doing, you know, days are gonna get longer including Fridays. So super to be aware of that.