Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Welcome to House Education, 03/10/2026. The committee for the next little bit is gonna do a little work planning out the rest of our week. May not be the right time to hit like and subscribe.

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: Week number one. Right. We

[Kate McCann (Member)]: have

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: like one subscriber.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: She's selling our committee. No joke.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: We monetize that YouTube feed at some point. All right, so listen, we've got a lot of open space. We've got a lot of which we can just convert into Act 73 of 2025 draft map and policy discussion, but let's see if we can't focus that a little bit on who we might want to hear from. However, before we do that, today we are going to get the markup or we're going to get the latest version of chronic absenteeism, like to send that out the door even tomorrow if we're all feeling good about it. So we are being punctual with our bills. We have a miscellaneous Ed bill that's sort of sitting out there still. There are a number of sort of outstanding questions with it, but if everybody would sort of get back over again, and it would be good to just sort of, if you feel like you need to hear testimony or if you need to talk to somebody outside the building or whatever, let's take that. Just another couple of other things. The crossover, we will have put up the TCV bill. We will have put out H802. That's just Ceasar plater. To repeat the language about the inflator, maybe a better way to handle it than doing a standalone bill, just to go through all the processes. Piece of this that we got chronic absenteeism, miscellaneous, and then Act 73 amendments, which means the stuff that we've been talking about. We've all had lots of time to think about everything. We sort of remain stuck in many ways, many of our positions. Think later in the week we'll hear some more proposed language that might help some of us get unstuck or some of us less stuck. Today, we've got the Vermont School Boards Association, Vermont Superintendent Association coming to talk to us about sort of the aftermath of town meeting day votes and their take on things. Think about what our take on things is as well. So, me just draw out there. Any ideas? Is there testimony that people need now that isn't Well, is there a testimony that people need? For

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: a specific bill or

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Well, legislative, wide open to like, Hey, we're agenda planning here, it doesn't necessarily have to be specific to people, except for free.

[Jana Brown (Clerk)]: I don't know that I do yet. I have to rehear more about what's written in the chronic absence of tea today and how that all looks. May be that it creates more there, I think so, but I just need to hear more. Haven't read it yet.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay. Yeah. It's up. If you have any more. Oh, okay. Yeah. I know that Angela Arsenal was scheduled to come in a week ago or so, but is that still something we wanna do

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: here? What was

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: the media numbers?

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: Is that the media in school?

[Jana Brown (Clerk)]: Yeah. Top bill. I'm not sure

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: what the number is.

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: That would be

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I mean, we're not at a point where a bill like that would require

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: I think that's

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: what she was Could we for. To recent testimony, but I think we want to offer the opportunity to introduce it.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: As a teacher, I feel like that is a huge discussion to me to that kind of thing, and I don't possibly see a way for us to finish that with Sarah. Agree.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah, because we will get an extension on the work that we are struggling with. We will not get an extension on anything else, which has to be obvious.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: Question. Yes. So I did receive an email from a constituent who's part of a group of Northeast Kingdom parents who would like to testify at some point in the House and in the Senate Ed committees. They have positions regarding transportation, CTE, choice, things like that, and what you know, the process. Should I have her

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: email you and Matt? I think or Well,

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I think that probably or what I and I'll get some clarification from the leadership. We're probably in need of a public hearing. The problem that we have is that we haven't agreed on anything. So it's hard to have a public hearing on something that we haven't agreed upon. So I would say you could tell them and to all of you for constituents who are sort of wanting to please submit something in writing, and that we are looking at having a public hearing in the not too distant future.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: Just wanna make sure I respond appropriately to her today. Thank you.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Do that later. Representative Brady?

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: You'll never believe this. I'm gonna say I need to understand a lot more about the foundation formula and modeling assumptions, how it works, the impact. And in light of what you heard in public caucus today, I guess I'm concerned about the gravity of decisions being made in a variety of committees all about one education system. So pre K is off in one place. Commerce is off. CTE is off in another place. I feel very comfortable about that. I am worried we're going to be in a position where we're rushed to just say, well, the committee did their work, smile and nod. And as we're looking at the whole system under Act 73, and especially as we think about regional middle and high schools, doing these things piecemeal in other places is very worrisome to me. And I am concerned about our schedule and the notion that all those things are going happen in all these other places in a week or two, it's all going to come together and people will have a chance to weigh in and understand the implications of the decisions that are being made.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: All right, so.

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: You've

[Kate McCann (Member)]: taken a lot of time to think.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: No, but you know it. I know. I appreciate that. And we've probably all been told various times like, well, this doesn't happen till this happens or this happens. Yep. But I don't see any reason why we can't just keep hearing that. Because, for example, there's not gonna be a comprehensive CTE bill this year that some of this stuff isn't gonna happen this year. And so therefore, how does that affect everybody else's decisions? But it's my understanding, we have a new bill

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: coming out. Was just told this I had a Senate agenda here in Congress.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yes, I do not believe it talks about funding. It talks about getting started on some steps like there hasn't been a redo of CTE rules since the '90s or something. So I'm gonna say I echo, since I put the

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: board at the moment, I echo everything that was just said. And I will say on top of that, that I would not be comfortable with updating even rules until we've decided what we're going to do with CTE and merging that into a middle regional high school system. I'm real concerned about

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Well, we end

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: up with a lot of chickens and eggs then. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So why don't we get Beth and John in here again to sort of walk through the timeline and contingencies again? Then we can sort of ask a lot of, well, if not this, then that, what happens here, if this happens there. I think we probably all benefit from it. That sound reasonable? So let's get them scheduled maybe starting tomorrow at 09:15, put them in where we have community discussion and drop community discussion over to thirty or something. Rob? Am I remembering correctly that the therapeutic schools thing is part of the Sloan's? Yes. Okay. So please, everybody be ready when we have bridge counsel appear with sort of specific questions and concerns and scenarios. All understanding where we are. Do we, what would we like JFO in as well, the foundation formula? So let's see if we can get Julia and Ezra in. Julia, were

[Kate McCann (Member)]: they supposed to provide us some of the bottling that they've done already? Discussion on how that was if

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: they were going to provide us some of those They had done some of the bottling. They told us

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: that originally, but then they needed to sell my thing. They said the premise.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. So to the best that we can, let's just start plugging in time tomorrow and just keep squeezing committee discussion up against lunch since it is committee discussion just with the experts in the room with that case. I worry about it if we get something out the door. What would you progress in the meeting?

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Well, other than that, personally, I think every discussion should be asked something very, I think every time slot should be asked something

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: very At this point it is. The early college testimony from the Agency of Education, What specifically that would you guys talk about having them come in? What specific information did you ask for?

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: I'm going go back to my emails on that, but it was data about who's using it, what kids, where, sending schools, receiving institutions. Again, a concern about, or I have, as well as some other legislators, a concern about sort of disparate use of the program in different parts of the state, and particularly an impact on our medium ishsmall ish schools that are already struggling. We're sort of putting another squeeze on them of pulling out cohorts of kids that then reduces the opportunities further in that existing school. It's come up about certainly by year 32, think, kind of when I looked at the numbers up and jumped off the charts in terms of the dramatic increase. Hazen, Leland and Gray, a few places. My guess is we're not in a place to make a policy change on it this year. But I think, again, we're overdue for an Act 77, full flexible pathways kind of reevaluation of what's working, what's not. The I think the legislature should be doing more regularly, which is instead of just creating new things every day, but look back on the work we've done and the implementation of it and see and look at early college, dual enrollment. The landscape of higher ed and online courses has changed dramatically since fact that they haven't even passed. So I guess it's informational and probably leading us to a report Or a study, something to then have some more work and some stakeholders engagement on to be able to start to look at more carefully maybe next year.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Would be So just on a timing point of view, think about if we want to report back, what should be that report back? Also just to piggyback on that, just wondering about the cost, what's coming out of the ed fund for the early college. Yeah, it's right there on the outlook page.

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: Okay, just say, you might have been first. I think you were first.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: I mean, was just gonna tag on the representative Brady and say it's, in addition to being hard on small schools, it's also important to know that it's sort of self perpetuating in which as the schools become smaller, they become even smaller, because no one wants to be there when the class gets to seniors.

[Beth Quimby (Member)]: Mine relates to that to some degree. What I think we don't know, because I don't think we've looked at it, is how many schools are offering additional dual enrollment credits to prevent losing bodies out of the school. I hear it anecdotally more than I thought I would. And I think it's happening quite

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: a bit. So I think that's something that we've got an issue. Question, is dual enrollment generally done at the high school or is dual enrollment It's to the a

[Kate McCann (Member)]: real mix.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: We're starting to do more at other campuses, but it's a real mix. It's not mine. It's as you speak

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: to adults. That's the difference.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: The money stays with the kid, but the other thing is that if it is online and they're in another room, that's still not necessarily campus, a robust on campus, in classroom community learning experience is ideal.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: The other thing that was interesting is we have heard various policy discussions about who's enrolled and who isn't enrolled when they're in early college. We had the kids from Montpelier, I think, or some group, and they're like, Oh no, we're still enrolled. We can go do sports. I don't think that's the way it's supposed to be. You're supposed to be unenrolled. I totally understand why schools do it. It's great.

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: I think it

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And then how does it affect graduation rates? Because we're agreeing more right at the last moment.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: My real world experience with it wasn't what I was hearing from some of the students.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So there was something unenrolled.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Right, correct. And being able to still be active in certain parts of the school day. So I was a little confused by that.

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: I think it also falls under this basket of in the swirl of Act 73, and we're changing everything, we're also neglecting a whole lot of incremental things and issues that have been on our radar and have come up. This is not the first time in terms of early college. So I guess it leads us back to the existential question here of incremental change and something or adjustments if needed. Maybe there is or maybe there isn't in college, but I think there's several things like that versus something entirely different.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. It does, know, I think as you pointed out previously, it does sort of circle back to scale. If you are at a high school that can offer a lot, all of a sudden you start losing kids to early college and you really can't offer much. Right.

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: But if we're in this interim period, the things we're doing or not doing are impacting things happening in the field, then that's going to have a lasting impact. And so if we lose kids from the system, if schools lose opportunities, if they lose community buy in in the next couple of years or are doing it now, that matters. We're not just starting from scratch. If end up with new districts, doesn't go away.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah. So it does not go away. So I guess that's my fear of Yeah. Mean, it's a big It's been a topic of conversation since I've been here because obviously for the kids who take advantage of it and enjoy it, it's a great benefit for the state college system. It's a great financial benefit. And it already exists, so you're taking away a program. That's the hard stuff.

[Erin Brady (Ranking Member)]: To be fair though, high school already exists and we're using programs really fast because of the early promised program. We're taking those opportunities away from kids who don't have the option to go to college.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: No argument for me, but this is just why it's been so hard. Stay safe. I

[Kate McCann (Member)]: have very strong feelings about keeping the hardly valid options. I think, as we should, we do a lot of work, again, as we should, to bring the students that might need extra help to provide for them and bring them up to where they should be. We do very, very little for the students that are advanced and stuck in a situation that might not be good for them and needing to go forward. That's just kind of my other side argument. Sorry, but didn't mean to start at the beginning. I feel free. But

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: it it just goes to show that, you know, how hard it is, especially when we've overall had a strong flexible pathways philosophy, and it is a flexible pathway. All right, so really we're not gonna solve it between now and Friday. However, if there are thoughts on what a study on this should look like, it would be from the AOE, we should keep that for a report. Anything else? Take five back at two and we'll start right up.