Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: On Tuesday, February 3. We are here this afternoon to hear from folks from the Governor's Institute of Vermont, a little bit about what they're all about. And I think you're gonna touch a little bit on a budget request for this year as well. Perfect, that's just what we need. Welcome, introduce yourself and the floor is yours.

[Elizabeth Frascoia (Executive Director, Governors Institutes of Vermont)]: Thank you for having us. My name is Elizabeth Prascoya, and I'm the executive director of Governors Institutes of Vermont, and I'm also an alum from 1994. So back in the day. Thank you for having us. It's a pleasure to be with the committee again. I don't think I've been in this room. It's a different vibe from the last room. Quilt? We're gonna start quilts. So yes, I'm here to remind you that we exist and to thank you for your previous support. For many, many years, we've been in partnership with the state. And we do have a budget request for FY 'twenty seven. And I'm here with a few very recent alumni and a few older alumni to share a bit of the impact. We also have Stealth Rep. Harple alum as well. So just to give you a quick overview, Governors Institutes of Vermont is a nonprofit organization, and we are forty three years old. We were founded in partnership with Governor Snelling, the Agency of Education, and the Arts Council at the time. We were created to ensure that there were opportunities for young artists, no matter their financial background and no matter what their school was offering. So we are an extracurricular option. We run summer institutes. They're one to two weeks long, and they happen on Vermont college campuses. This is a program that's exclusively for Vermonters, which really sets us apart. We're part of a wider national network of governor schools. And in fact, this fall, we're hosting that conference. So if anyone is interested in being part of that or meeting folks from across the country doing this similar work, we'd love to have you. We are serving hundreds of students every year, about 700 students, most of which are in our summer institutes, which are these intensive times where people come together to create community around a topic they're interested in, whether that be math or engineering or the arts. You'll hear from a couple of students who attended our Health and Medicine Institute today. If we see an interest in a young person, we want to develop that interest, and we want to show them educational pathways here in the state as well as career pathways. So they do hands on learning. They spend all that time together at either UVM or Norwich or Vermont State University or Champlain College. Those are our current partners. They live in a dorm with wait, for many folks, it's the first time they've had that experience, and they're learning how to choose how to spend their time and what it's really going to be like to make their own choices. It's something that we see students rave about. Hope that you received this in the packet for today. This is all I've got to share with you. There's a link to our impact report. It just has a few pieces of data. I'm gonna highlight a couple and then turn it over to students, because I'm sure you're eager to hear from them. So we ensure that students come no matter what their financial situation might be. And that's really, really key to how we run the organization. And that is something that's tricky to budget for. And we've seen a lot greater need over the last few years. I'm sure this is not something this is something that's probably echoing what you're hearing from other constituents, that the need is increasing. But it's really crucial to have that state support. Our current allocation is 384,008 and $74 And we have been level funded in the FY 'twenty seven budget from the governor's budget. And we are here to ask for your support in increasing that amount. We haven't had an increase since FY24. We'd like to increase it by 10% to a total of $423,361 We do a lot with that money. We leverage it five to one with private dollars. We are constantly fundraising, and we gave over about $1,000,000 away in financial aid this past year. The students are getting the money, as well as the Vermont colleges, actually. Because what we spent at Vermont colleges this year was think of it now, 542,000. So the money that you are allocating, we are so grateful for because it allows us to do this work with the colleges. But it does go right back to the colleges and to students. So I just wanted to emphasize that. And I wanted to say that it's really important we're going be in the healthcare committee as well this afternoon. We think about education, but we also are thinking about Vermont's demographic crisis and workforce and ensuring that folks do know that there are really meaningful, wonderful opportunities and ways to connect and commit to working and living in the state. I'm going to turn it over to students, and I can come back at the end for any questions.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: Great, thank you.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: I want you guys both come can they both come together?

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Sure. Yeah, there's a red chair at that little desk behind you.

[Elizabeth Frascoia (Executive Director, Governors Institutes of Vermont)]: You. So if you could introduce yourself.

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: My name is Abby Oliver Reider. I'm a current high school student at senior. I'm an alum of GIV from Chittenden.

[Henry Gogeo (Student, GIV alum)]: Hello, my name is Henry Gogeo. I graduated last year. I'm taking CAPTA right now, and I am a 2024 alum of Caledonia. All

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: right, so I just want to

[Kate McCann (Member)]: say thank you for inviting us here. It means a lot.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Ask you to speak up a little. We have a fan. Thank

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: you for inviting us here. It means a lot. I want to talk about my experience at GIV and what I learned. For hard skills, I learned basic life support. If somebody drops right now, I can save you. I have had instances in my life where somebody needed emergency care immediately and that care was delayed because no one knew how to perform CPR and a life was lost. I am confident now that after my GIV experience, I could save that person again. That would not happen. Onto the more cliche, mushy stuff. I made so many friends at GIV, which meant a lot to me coming from a small school. I don't have a broad community, and GIV draws on every corner of Vermont. I have friends down at Burren Burren. I have friends at Seaview now, even though I live in Burlington. It's amazing. Still hang out with them. We're still talking very often. I have them on Snapchat. I see them every day. And further integration to Vermont Community. No matter what institute you go into, you're making connections to professionals in that career. I now am connected to many more professionals than I was at the beginning, even though I have family in healthcare. This is going to help with retention in Vermont. Students, we all know are moving away. We need to keep our Vermont youth and by keeping, by providing them career paths and connections in the paths that they want to take, we can retain them. Why should they go somewhere else when they have all the connections to perform how they want here? It's especially important for our healthcare system, considering the state it is in right now. We need healthcare professionals. They need to be educated and for GIV is the junction where that happens. You retain our youth and healthcare professionals. And that is why it is so important. Thank you.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Where you go to school and what year did you do GIV?

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: I did GIV this past summer, 2025, and I go to Vermont Common School. Okay.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Great. I believe you live in I live in Burlington. I assume you did the health and medicine.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: That's correct. Yeah, great, thank you.

[Henry Gogeo (Student, GIV alum)]: I would like to say that GIV is really good at teaching and teaching all of the team that wants to get into the the subject they wanna do. I Before I went to GIV, I knew I wanted to do health medicine. I just had a family that does that stuff, I just wanted to understand more about it. And having the opportunity to have professionals showing me all the career paths that you can take and the steps to get there really broadened my idea. And not only that, just all the hands learning. I personally thrive on hands on learning. Think I learn better by doing stuff rather than sitting in a classroom. That's what the GIV health medicine really is good at. And I think learning all the practical skills like being CPR certified and softly bleed just really not only like helps you, like, even if you don't want to get into that stuff more, just helps you learn about your life, but also just just makes you more confident about what you're capable of. And I think that also she said about connections. We're connected not only by our peers, but also the instructors, well trained professionals. Just hearing their voice, hearing what their experiences and their advice towards us really like sets a clear goal in mind. And I think because of that, am now, though I'm taking gap year, I am doing an EMT program with St. Michaels right now. And I just wanna get as much experience and dive into that a bit more at least thanks to what GRB have to offer to me.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Could you describe a typical day while you were there where you had sort of both hands on learning and other activities?

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: So since I did it more recently, I'll be taking that question. A typical day for me was get up, get ready, go get breakfast. And then it was split in the morning. I would have kind of more pure educational learning. So I'd be taught stuff about the human body or nursing and introduced to a bunch of different fields. Like I took a course in respiratory therapy. And then in the afternoon would be technical skills like CPR, stop the bleed, how to bandage people, how to move them around without breaking somebody's neck, how to assess a patient. And then at the end, we had a really massive, it's called the mass casualty incident, where half of the participants pretend that they are sick or dying or bleeding out, and the other half has to really be a doctor and go out into the field and assess the patient to really reinforce the skills learned. So it's both like kind of a lecture based, but then reinforced with technical hands on skills.

[Henry Gogeo (Student, GIV alum)]: Which campus were either of you at for your GIB experience? We're both at, we went both to North, so were, I was at Linden, I mean, it's New York, Yeah. So that

[Robert Hunter (Member)]: committee

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: members? Yeah, Rob. My daughter did the government's institute, she did a couple of them, but I don't recall a cat being a mascot. Tell

[Robert Hunter (Member)]: me about the cat.

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: Yes. The cat became a thing during COVID when it was virtual, and one of our employees had a cat on Zoom every morning, and it became a random image.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Jana, was

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: there a follow-up to that?

[Elizabeth Frascoia (Executive Director, Governors Institutes of Vermont)]: I literally had that question.

[Robert Hunter (Member)]: Josh, the cat winking or is

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: That's what

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: I wanted to do. It only has one.

[Robert Hunter (Member)]: I assumed, but I didn't want to go right to it.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: That's what I thought. Maybe

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: if somebody had been trained at GIV.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And what are your plans for your next chapter?

[Henry Gogeo (Student, GIV alum)]: Like I said before, I'm currently taking a EMT course at St. Mike's. I'm looking to pass the natural registry test for that and maybe be on, like, EMS crew at I'm going to UVM this fall and participate in the in the EMS crew there and then just see what other options there are, just like expand my reach and knowledge throughout all of health and medicine and see which one sticks to me the most. And Henry, where did you go to school? I did my first two years at BHS, and and I did my last two years and graduated from Rice.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And how about your next chapter?

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: I am about to go abroad to Tanzania on a backpacking trip for two and a half months through a Knowles course. And then I will be headed to University of Denver, where I hope to take an EMT course and become certified also through the National Registry. And then I do hope to come back

[Kate McCann (Member)]: to Vermont after that. Excellent.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: That's great. Thank you both very much. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Melanie Santano (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; Alum)]: Hi everyone, my name is Melanie, first name is Santano, and I'm on the board, and Jeremiah is also on the board. Can you introduce yourself?

[Jeremiah Breer (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; CFO, Office of the State Treasurer — speaking as private citizen)]: Sure. I'm Jeremiah Breer. You may know that I am the Chief Financial Officer of the State Treasury, but I am not here today in that capacity. I'm here as a private citizen, as a board member of GIV, and as an alum of the program.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Which one?

[Jeremiah Breer (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; CFO, Office of the State Treasurer — speaking as private citizen)]: Asian cultures. 2007.

[Melanie Santano (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; Alum)]: I was a little bit earlier than that. In the '90s, I went through Governors' Institutes on the Arts, and it really impacted me so much so that I've now sent one of my teams and sending the next one this summer and hope to stay involved through the board. But I was first in my family to go to college, and I was going to high school in the Northeast Kingdom. I really cherished my experience at GIV, and I made connections to well, a lot of teams there, but also organizations of Vermont. I really appreciate that. GIV partners with Vermont nonprofits and organizations when I first arrived at GIA. We had the Bread and Puppet Theater come and work with the group of art students. And it was the first time that I had been exposed to a lot of political theater and really opened my eyes at the time. Still look back on that time and cherish that experience. But I made so many connections and actually I really love and appreciate what the students were saying because I think that just becoming more comfortable and more confident in yourself and being on a college campus and being exposed to that made me more comfortable. Like I said, I was the first in my family to go to college, so it just made me more comfortable to go to college. And I think that that's what I've wanted for my kids when, as they're going through high school in Vermont, I really cherish the opportunity to have them for a couple of weeks on a campus in Vermont and learning in a field that they're really interested in and then making the connections with Vermont organizations and professors as well and just learning so much. You wanna talk about any other impacts you have?

[Jeremiah Breer (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; CFO, Office of the State Treasurer — speaking as private citizen)]: Sure. So I grew up in Cabot, Vermont, a double wide trailer on the wrong side of town, if you can imagine that. And my world was very small. It existed within this very close network of a small town and that's beautiful and that's lovely. And I wouldn't trade that. And that's definitely like has made me who I am today. But one thing that GIV introduced me to was widening my horizons. So I got on this plane and I went halfway across the world and I saw different people. We were going all around China and seeing how different people lived and different cultures and seeing what was going on there. And that and the people I met at GIV, I think really opened my mind to a lot of things. And it may seem like kind of a lot of dots to go from Asian cultures to being the CFO of the treasury. But the link there is that the experience made me open to new experiences. It made me open to new people. It made me open to new ideas and taking risks and making new connections that I would not have gotten to where I am today without that widening of my horizons. And I think as we've talked today about the fact that GIV has a very important role to play in helping with our demographic crisis. Having opportunities for young people and retaining young people is not just about retaining people and it's not just about having people here. It's about who those people are and who they become and what kind of citizens they are and how they contribute. And I can tell you without a doubt, GIV was formative for me in that. It gave me an appreciation as a global citizen and as a person that I just would not have had without that experience. I will also plug that as we are asking you for money that I'm a certified public accountant. I have a lot of experience in financial management in different organizations. I volunteered in a lot of different places. And I can tell you that GIV will make the absolute best use of whatever money that you give them. Nothing will be wasted. Everything is efficient. Everything is put to the utmost benefit. They very much so watch the dollar. It's a very well run organization with very good controls and very good budgets. And so I think as dollars are scarce and there's a lot of requests for a lot of funding, I would just put in the plug that this is a very, very efficient use of money for trying to make an impact on young people in Vermont and on the future of not only the population, but the quality of experiences that people have living here.

[Melanie Santano (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; Alum)]: And I really love that GIV has begun. It wasn't offered when I was a teenager, but has begun offering these one day adventures. So in addition to what happens in the summer institutes, just giving exposure, because I think like you said, it's about those connections and also exposure and types of people that you're And being able to reach students that might not even end up going to college, but they're exposed to a lot of other things that are possible. And I just attended the cybersecurity one last weekend, and then I know we came here, we've had a bunch of students come here and just to be exposed to the way that they can be engaged civically. I think there's so many things that we can do to even expand that program in one day. I know it's a lot of work

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: to do that, but there are lots of things that we could do with that

[Melanie Santano (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; Alum)]: as well. So just seeing other ways to serve the students in Vermont. And I do, I'm really passionate about what we do and how many students are reached. And that's why I think we're here to ask you to help reach those students and get to those numbers.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I don't know if either of you wanna speak to this, or maybe we should have Elizabeth back just to sort of talk about the finances of GIV. Before we go, any questions, committee members?

[Kate McCann (Member)]: I don't really have a question, but I have a comment, which is you don't have to sell anything to me. My daughter also participated in health and medicine, and she did it during COVID. Don't know they made that happen, but it was extra special during that time because there wasn't a lot going on for kids and adults. And

[Abby Oliver Reider (Student, GIV alum)]: they made

[Kate McCann (Member)]: it affordable for our family to match out there too. So thank

[Jeremiah Breer (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; CFO, Office of the State Treasurer — speaking as private citizen)]: should mention that my family could not afford to attend GIV. I did just a full scholarship and most of the students that attend GIV get some sort of financial aid. We're probably at ceiling, it's a bit stunder, But the money that we get from the state, so there's tuition that is charged and that tuition does not cover the full cost of the program really for anyone. So the dollars make this not only help make GIV to be continued to be viable, but make make it so that it is accessible to average Vermonters.

[Melanie Santano (Board Member, Governors Institutes of Vermont; Alum)]: And you stayed with

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Elizabeth. Sure. Thank you.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Could you talk a little bit about your budget overall and what percentage the state contribution is to it?

[Elizabeth Frascoia (Executive Director, Governors Institutes of Vermont)]: So our budget is $2,100,000 The state contribution currently comes to about 20% of that, and we're grateful for it. It used to be about a third of our budget back in the day, but that was when we didn't serve as many students. Things were less expensive. It was originally conceived as a third of our budget, but it's 20%. And there's another portion that, as Jeremiah said, is the sliding scale tuition dollars that come in from families. And about half of our money is raised privately between foundations, business support, and individual contributions.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: What would you guess tuition covers? What percentage?

[Elizabeth Frascoia (Executive Director, Governors Institutes of Vermont)]: Oh, about 30%. 30%.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Any other questions? Excellent, thank you all very much for your time. I really appreciate the input and we always are very happy to have young people come and talk to us. Thanks

[Kate McCann (Member)]: for bringing in.

[Elizabeth Frascoia (Executive Director, Governors Institutes of Vermont)]: Some of our young people on Friday testifying for age six forty.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: Thank

[Elizabeth Frascoia (Executive Director, Governors Institutes of Vermont)]: you for including young people's voices in submitting.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: Thank you all.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Excellent. Thanks everybody.

[Elizabeth Frascoia (Executive Director, Governors Institutes of Vermont)]: They wrote that. Oh yes, I know. They wrote it and they came to talk about it. Thank you.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Alright, so we're not going to take a break. We're going to move into our next agenda item, which is a presentation on H618. We might just pause a moment because we have legislative council for this one as well.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: If

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: you feel okay, go ahead without legislative council here right away.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Alright.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So we are now going to continue on with some bill presentations. The first being h six one eight, which proposes to require a school counselor to spend 80 percent of their time providing direct or indirect services to students. With that, representative McCann, it's all yours.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: For the record, I'm representative McCann from here in Montpelier. And today I'll be introducing h six eighteen. This school counselor's bill proposes to require school counselors to spend 80% of their time providing direct or indirect services to students. You might think, well, of course, they should be spending 80% or more of their time providing services to students. They're school counselors after all. But those of us who work in schools and have working knowledge of schools know that personnel are often pulled in many directions. This bill aims to do a few things. First, prioritize student needs By dedicating a larger portion of their time to direct student interaction, counselors can better address individual needs, provide more personalized support, and offer timely interventions as needed. Next, improved access to counseling. With more time dedicated to student services, counselors can see more students and provide a wider range of support, including academic guidance, career planning, social emotional development, and crisis intervention. Effective use of expertise. School counselors are trained professionals with specialized skills to address student challenges, and an eightytwenty bill ensures they are utilizing their expertise to the fullest. The fourth bullet point, addressing overburdened counselors. Many school counselors currently juggle a high caseload with administrative tasks leading to burnout and reduced effectiveness. An eightytwenty can alleviate that pressure by clearly defining their primary role. Equity and access. By ensuring that all students have sufficient access to counseling services, an eightytwenty bill can help address disparities in support for students from diverse backgrounds. In anticipation of a question regarding when this eightytwenty split should be negotiated between the school counselors and their local school boards in contract language, in practice, collective bargaining agreements are overwhelmingly teacher centric. Because teachers represent the vast majority of licensed staff in any district, contracts are structured around classroom instruction and teacher specific duties. School counselors make up a much smaller portion of district staff, and as a result, counselor specific responsibilities are almost never defined in negotiated agreements. In fact, there's only one known school contract in the entire country that contains a provision specific to school counselor role clarity. This underscores the reality that contract negotiations are not an effective or reliable mechanism for defining appropriate counselor duties. Without statutory guidance, school counselors are frequently assigned administrative and noncounseling tasks that diminish their ability to provide essential mental health, academic, and career support services to students. Many states like Maine, Tennessee, Washington, Pennsylvania, Texas, North Carolina, Utah, Virginia, Alaska have enacted eightytwenty legislation or similar statutory protections to ensure that school counselors are utilized in accordance with their professional training. These states recognize that role clarity improves student outcomes, strengthens school climate, and helps address workforce shortages by making the profession more sustainable and professionally aligned. This bill does not remove local control over contracts or working conditions. Rather, it establishes a clear statewide standard for how licensed school counselors should be deployed, ensuring that students receive the services they deserve and that districts maximize the impact of these highly trained professionals. I respectfully ask for your support on this eightytwenty bill, and I know that Vermont School Counselors Association would welcome the opportunity to provide any additional information that would be helpful.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: A very basic question would be. I don't think we had school counselors in the distance. So, this basically encompass both sort of school mental health counselors and school guidance counselors?

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Yes. They prefer to call themselves school counselors now.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: That's the umbrella term for it.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Some schools are just calling them guidance counselors.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: What motivated you to bring this bill up? What was the moment that you knew you wanted to do this?

[Kate McCann (Member)]: When I was asked to bring it forward by someone well respected in my learning community.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: I was gonna say, was there a moment that maybe one of your friends at school talked to you?

[Kate McCann (Member)]: A colleague from school,

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: yes. Okay.

[Kate McCann (Member)]: Who was in the

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: room. And this colleague, I was kind of wondering, I was just thinking back to my own teaching days, what sorts of administrative duties did they get yoked with in addition to dealing with a zillion kids and writing recommendations and tracking out the security of that kid. What are some of those administrative tasks to be?

[Kate McCann (Member)]: I would think some of them might be some of the duties that are around, like lunchtime duty. But I also think when we're short on subs, they're pulled into sub in any old classroom. So their expertise is going to a gym class perhaps.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: And

[Kate McCann (Member)]: I'm sure there are others that they would testify to.

[St. James (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So I actually had that same question because our school guidance counselor wrote to me in support of this legislation. And so I followed up with that question of what are the other duties that are not encompassed now. I won't waste our time by reading that full response, but I do have

[Kate McCann (Member)]: a list of that. I can share it.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: We'll do our formal walkthrough now. Thank you very much.

[St. James (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: That's St. James, the Office of Legislative Counsel. Matt, do I have the option to share? Okay. So we're looking at h six one eight as introduced. The title of the bill is an act relating to school counselors. Do you wanna go over the Section one is findings. Do you wanna go over the findings?

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yeah, just briefly.

[St. James (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Well, I don't know them well enough off the top of my head to summarize them, I'm sorry. So we can read through them quickly. Sure. The American School Counselors Association national model recommends that school counselors spend 80% or more of their time in direct and indirect services to students, and now more than 20% of their time in program planning and school support activities. The direct and indirect activities should come from the duties appropriate to the role of the school counselor rather than inappropriate duties assigned to school counselors as listed in the 2019 ASCA National Model Executive Summary. The 2020 ASCA State of the Profession Study found that thirty nine percent of school counselors were extremely challenged or challenged by being assigned inappropriate duties. Requiring school counselors to serve as five zero four coordinators, testing coordinators, substitute teachers, and more pulls them away from direct student counseling services. Section two adds a section to Title 16. There was no real natural place to put this in Title 16. So this is going in chapter one of title 16, section 16. If you choose to take up this bill and someone has a suggestion for a better place to put it, I'm all ears. The title of the statute would be school counselors, direct and indirect services, and it starts with a definition section. Direct services is defined as face to face or virtual interactions between school counselors and students, providing developmental service focused on supporting students' academic, career, and social emotional development in accordance with the Vermont Comprehensive School Counselor Framework. Indirect services is defined as school counselor services provided by a school counselor on behalf of students as a result of a school counselor's interactions with the students and others in accordance with the Vermont comprehensive school counselor framework. School counselor means a person who is employed as a school counselor in a setting and who is licensed as a school counselor pursuant to chapter 51 of this title by the Standards Board for Professional Educators, that's your teacher licensing chapter, or possesses a minimum of a master's degree in an approved program in guidance and counseling. School support services is defined as services that are not direct or indirect services, as defined in this section, and are outside the scope of the Vermont Comprehensive School Counselor Framework. Subsection B says each school counselor shall deliver a comprehensive school counseling program in which the school counselor spends at least 80% of the school counselor's time providing direct services or indirect services to students and spends not more than 20% of the school counselor's time on school support services. This act would take effect on 07/01/2026.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Were there questions? All right. Thank you. And