Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Education on January 22, better known as NEK Day here in the capital, and we have a full committee room of folks from the Northeast Kingdom here to talk to us and to listen into all of the testimony. Thanks everybody for making the long trip down here. Hope it's worthwhile. Just for the committee's sake, which is always a treat, we have students among those testifying this afternoon. I think really without further ado, let's just get rolling. John Castle, welcome. You're going to serve as our master of ceremonies today, if you would.

[John Castle]: Great. Good afternoon, John Castle. I'm the executive director for the Vermont Rural Education Collaborative. We work with eight different supervisor unions and supervisory districts in the Northeast Kingdom. That's about 50 schools. We provide a number of youth and adult programs, as well as involve ourselves in a bit of advocacy from time to time. So, thank you for having us here today. We've got a great lineup of educators from the Northeast Kingdom, and we have some superintendents, building administrators, board members, and we have some students that are going to back clean up for us. And so, that's really wonderful. My two things that I wanted to put out to you today is we know that you're going to be spending a fair amount of time wrestling again with Act 73 and moving forward with education finance. And those are all very important things and complex things. But please don't lose sight of important policy issues and funding issues around things like community schools and teacher workforce development. Those are things that I think are really important, it's easy to see them off the radar with those other much larger issues. That's my encouragement for you to be thinking about. Without further ado, we're going to turn to our one board member speaking today, Kate Friedy from Danville. Okay, come right up and take it away.

[Kate Friedy]: So my name is Kate Friedy. I am a resident of Danville and I serve on the school board there. I've also been a teacher at Hazen Union School for the past ten years. And even though my experience is shaped by both of my roles in Vermont's rural public education landscape, I do want to be clear that I'm speaking only as an individual who cares deeply about my Northeast communities, our schools, our students, and the future that we must work to create and sustain together. Danville is a small town in a unique position. We have a pre K-twelve public school of three seventeen students. Danville High School has 88 students, and it is the only public high school in our corner of the Northeast Kingdom. We serve all Danville residents, as well as students from surrounding towns who choose to attend Danville School. Students choose Danville because of the opportunities to build close relationships in our small school environment. We also receive a greater portion of students whose needs for special education and other support services cannot or will not be met at our neighboring independent schools. As we crunch the budget numbers, we see special education, health insurance, mental health services, and transportation costs continuing to outpace inflation and the ability of our taxpayers to comfortably pay property tax bills. In our current system, public schools must play by different rules than the independent schools that also receive public tuition dollars. I'll say it feels a bit like playing a basketball game, but for some reason, one team is allowed to tie their shoes. October 7, the Danville School Board received a petition that called for a town vote on whether to close our high school at the end of the school year, this school year. An intense period of important, though difficult and contentious conversations ensued, fueled by rumors, projections, and assumptions associated with the possible ramifications of Act 73. Of course, taxpayers wanted to know if closing our high school and tuitioning our ninth through twelfth graders would save them money. There were lots of unanswerable questions, many of them based on the uncertainty of state education legislation. But it became clear that at least in the first year, our taxes would increase if we closed our high school. Many Danville residents, students, and school staff members made passionate arguments in support of Danville High School's continued operation and against Act 73. Throughout the process, Danville neighbors on both sides of the vote wanted to make their own decisions about our school before a decision was made for us outside of local connections with our communities' needs and goals. Ultimately, Danville voters packed our school gymnasium on a Saturday afternoon in December for an in person only vote on high school closure. By a margin of four eighty to 75, Danville voters overwhelmingly showed their support in favor of continuing to operate Danville High School. The entire legislature would do well to pay attention to those numbers. Four eighty to 75 voters in a very purple town voted to operate a small yet tenacious rural public school where students have access to academic and extracurricular opportunities, not despite our size, but because of it. Four eighty to 75 Danville voters recognize that Danville School is educating our children and those of our neighboring towns in the most appropriate, equitable, and accessible way possible. Four eighty to 75 voters found it was in their own and their town's best interest to keep our tax dollars in our public education system. If we are seeking to improve public education in Vermont, and I hope that we all are, let's do that in a way that we might all be able to get behind. Many parts of the state expending educator energy on chasing class size minimums as the state's metric of success is only leading to some twisted sick version of survivor playing out in our schools, our boardrooms, and in our faculty meetings. Instead, let's focus that energy and professional expertise on tackling improved educational outcomes. Let's focus on improving literacy, communication, and critical thinking skills among our students. Let's focus on graduating young adults who are prepared to enter an academic institution, training program, or career field of their choosing and become contributing adults in our communities. Public education is the foundation of our democracy, and I am not ready to give up on either our democracy or equitable access to public education in Vermont. Thank you for your time and attention today.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Thanks very much. And have you sent your testimony? Yeah. Great. Thank you.

[John Castle]: Next up's Lisa. Lisa,

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: have a seat. Yeah.

[Lisa McCarthy]: Okay. I realized I printed this out, and then realized I should have printed it a little bigger because my eyesight isn't quite,

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: but I think it is easy. Be okay. Think I'll be okay. Okay.

[Chloe Barrett]: I'll give it

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: a shot.

[Lisa McCarthy]: So good afternoon, and thank you for having us here today. Just in me to speak on behalf of Rural Vermont. My name is Lisa McCarthy, and I'm the principal of Crassberry Schools. And Crassberry is a pre k 12 district located in Orleans County. We are a member of Orleans Southwest Supervisory Union, which encompasses the towns of Crassberry, Wilkut, Hardwick, Greensboro, Standard, and Woodbury. Crossbury is a town and community that deeply values education and the importance of local democracy, excuse me, and local decision making. There's been tremendous support in our pre k 12 school system historically, and this remains true today. We currently stand out in our region as a school that has a stable school population. We are not declining in enrollment like many other schools in Vermont. We are a school with a community school mindset. We have over 25 active community partners, not including family volunteers, who we engage with on a daily basis. One example of this is our connection to the Freedom and Unity Town Committee. Just last meet week, I met with this committee, which includes a high school student representative, to plan our mocktail meeting experience for students in grades three, four, and five. This event is an experiential learning opportunity and not only is an example of our work with our community partner, but is an important component of the educational experience in Craftsbury that teaches students about civics, the importance of local democracy, and the ability to have a voice in decision making within their community. The connection we have fostered between community and school provides not only increased educational opportunity for our students, but also creates the groundwork for a robust and thriving rural town. In Crafts Ferry, our school board, administration and community members are not afraid to engage in the hard work in local democracy to have the tough conversations needed in regards to balancing educational priorities and fiscal responsibility. The current this current budget season, our original draft budget had a projected 12% total increase. The secretary, Zoe Saunders, recently called on school boards to engage in the tough work of maintaining fiscal responsibility, and the CrossFerry Board and community rose for this call. There was input, a lot of input, a lot of input. There were many conversations. There were school board meetings. And, ultimately, the budget that was approved by the board reflected a 6% increase. I wanna be clear that I'm not opposed to change at the state level in regards to education. I think change needs to happen. However, I believe that act 73, as it was originally presented in the last legislative session, has impacts that disproportionately impact rural schools and communities. While it is an education reform bill, I have no doubt that when small rural towns lose their community school, the community as a whole is negatively impacted. Roxbury is a prime example. As a native Vermonter and somebody who moved back from out of state to raise a family, I can attest that in choosing a town where I would raise my children, the school, and the ability to be involved in a small local public school was a priority for me. I would not have bought a house in a town where I would then have to put my five year old child on a long bus ride. When I shared about the Crasberry budget previously, I did this to demonstrate the power of local democracy. What I didn't share is that I believe that we can do better than a 6% increase in the future, and I do think we need to. This is where we really need your help at the state level. The budget the board approved had a reduction in 1.5 FTE staff members and other programming. It still rose 6% due to increases largely outside our control, like health insurance, transportation, and special education costs that continue to rise and impact our ability to be able to maintain a lower percentage increase. I strongly feel that exploring a centralized educational service areas model to consolidate and control these costs and services is a solid next step in the process of controlling the cost of education. Next Friday, January 30, CrossFerry Schools will be bringing 28 middle and high school students to the State House for rural schools day. I invite you to visit with them and learn about how we create diverse and high quality instructional programming so that our small school can provide students with big opportunity. We currently have nine AP courses at the high school level and students engaging in flexible pathways through dual enrollment, early college, work based learning, attending the tech center, virtual learning, and other creative learning opportunities through pathways. We are a small school, and we also provide robust, rigorous instructional programming in a close knit and very supportive community. Thank you for your time.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Very much. And you have not submitted your testimony, sent it into regard to the system.

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: I did. Thank you very much for Alright. Your

[Brian Bloomfield]: Good evening, everyone. My name is Brian Bloomfield. I'm the head of School of Linden Institute. I need

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: to take my glasses off to read.

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: It's my

[Brian Bloomfield]: pleasure to be with you here today to speak on the vital importance that independent schools play for many Vermont students, especially those in a remote location in Vermont like the NEK. While I know that this topic can be controversial and raise passionate ideas from people, today, I have the advantage of not being a politician but a career educator. This lets me speak about what I see as helping students separate from the many policy choices you have to consider. If you'd like, I'd be happy to come back another time and chat about those as well. In parts of the NEK, the independent high schools are the only venue for for some students. While there are public high schools, topography, transportation, and geography make some of them inaccessible for many of our families. At Linden Institute, we serve almost 400 students from 24 different sending towns. And while we do have a small boarding program of two dozen students from 13 countries, 95% of our students are local. Sometimes I hear people talk about independent schools like Ivory Towers or that they are not interested or not able to serve students with special educations. Our data from AOE shows that 56 of our students at Linden Institute qualify for free and reduced lunches. Twenty five percent of our students are on active IEPs, and nearly 40% of our students are on some sort of documented learning plan. Each year, about half of LA graduates go on to some form of continuing education, and half of them go into the workforce, many through our CTE program, which is the only one in the region. Now my background is in literature, and that field of study goes back thousands of years. Education, in contrast, has been an academic field for less than a hundred years. And in that time, we are faced with emerging research in brain learning, technology, pedagogy. And with all that, it seems like our understanding of what it means to teach and to learn evolves on an almost daily basis. And yet through all of that work, changing themes, one that seems to endure is that all students do not learn the same way. One approach does not reach every student successfully. Now I'm a product of public school, having gone to public k through 12 schools and both public and independent colleges. I have worked in both public and independent schools in my almost three decades long career in education, and I have great respect for any school that can lift up a student. And I know, I know, that not every school works well for every student. That is why independent schools exist, because parents see that their children sometimes need a different approach. Independent schools are not all the same. Some focus on experiential education, some on special education, some on project based learning, outdoor learning, therapeutic support, college career pathways, and and so on. We are designed to be laboratories for pedagogy and have more freedom than traditional public schools to explore differing types of education practices. If I had my way, independent schools and public schools would exist in a robust partnership where we share successful strategies, and through that sharing, we're both made better able to lift up our students. If it is possible to put aside politics and political platforms, our faculty and staff know that's the same blood and the same mud, and every student deserves a pathway to success regardless of where where they attend school. So do not hate us. Do not fear us. Instead, partner with us. All of us believe that these children's futures are the most important thing we fight for. And today, more than ever, it feels like a fight. Kids today face so many challenges, and they have to strive harder than ever before to find their own pathways towards happiness and success. As educators and legislators, we need to be allies now. So to you all, I extend my personal invitation to please come and visit our schools in the NEK, get to know who we actually serve, who our students and families actually are, and you'll see how we need to partner together to help these students to find success and happiness in life. Thank you.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Great.

[John Castle]: Next up is Sean. Next up.

[Sean McMannam]: Afternoon, representatives. Happy ADK Day. I'm Sean McMannan, superintendent of the King of East Supervisory District. And we serve the wonderful towns and nearly 1,700 students of Perk, Concord, Lunenburg, Linden, Newark, Sheffield, Sutton, and Wheelock. I think that I bring a unique perspective since I spent the first twenty two years of my educational career in Vermont and Chittenden County serving Charlotte, Hinesburg, Shelburne, St. George, Shelburne as the CBU principal and in Winooski as their superintendent for ten years. In my nearly three years in the kingdom, I've come to appreciate and love the people and the place. Kingdom Trails, Burke Mountain, Lake Willoughby, Newark Pond, Mount Pisgah, Vast trails. I mean, I could go on forever about beautiful natural spaces and variety of outdoor rec opportunities that make the NEK a highly sought after destination. NEK folks are family and community centered, and they'll do anything to help others in need. In fact, their values are remarkably similar to the new American families I worked with in the NIPC. And what I have noticed since being in the NEK is their so called resilience, their rural toughness, and self sufficiency sometimes are used as a rationale to not provide the necessary or similar resources that other regions of the state receive. Today, I want to advocate on four fronts for the NEK, which are all interrelated housing, health care, flood planning and response, and of course, education. As we all know, housing is an issue. It's the foundation of a strong Northeast Kingdom economy and community and a strong state. We need a variety of housing to attract people at all income levels to support jobs, employers, new community members. And lastly, on the housing piece, homelessness. We need to address the homelessness issue in a preventive way and in a dignified and stable approach. At KASD and across the state, we lose teaching candidates every year due to lack of housing options and affordability. Health care. Rural hospitals, primary care, services are critical safety nets, and we see the resources for these being decreased across our country right now. Sustaining rural healthcare, including mental health supports, is essential for our healthy communities. Our students and families continue to need more help and particularly mental health supports than are currently available in The UK. Flood planning and response, we need stronger systems. We need rapid mobilization. We need infrastructure investments, the whole gamut so that we are prepared. I still don't feel like we are prepared in this moment. And I know that we will come together to do whatever it takes, but it would help to have this systematized and have some investment in the infrastructure. So now to education. Strong rural schools, both public and independent, are essential for strong communities and a strong Vermont. Our system is one of the most equitable in the nation. Where a student lives matters less than almost anywhere else in the country. So let's talk about Act 73 a bit. It is focused on governance, quality, and finance systems. Good governance is required for any improvement in student outcomes, But mega districts are not the answer. And there's no research to support improved student outcomes by forming these massive districts. Quality. Act 73 talks repeatedly about opportunities for students as a means to improve outcomes. If we do not solve the lack of people entering the teaching field with effective preparation, none of those opportunities will matter. The teacher effect is the most important lever for improved student outcomes. Right now, Kingdom East has nearly 25% of our teachers on temporary licenses, and I hear the same sentiment from my colleagues across the state. Finance. So where are the savings? That is why this all started. No one can point to the savings, which was the primary driver. And in fact, at KSD, where we do not operate a high school and it is not currently feasible to build a high school, and we partner really well with Linden Institute and Bryan, where over 60% of our students attend, and we continue to pay tuition to independent schools with absolutely no regulation on what they can charge us each year. So when we talk about finance within Act 73, we need to look at every part of it. I would add here too that I think a low hanging fruit is the school district versus supervisory union. I can tell you from having been in a supervisory union and been in two supervisory districts, there are massive efficiencies, both in cost and leadership capacity to be had by switching to supervisory districts. But all of this governance quality finance reminds me of what I was told when we embarked upon our $55,000,000 construction project in Winooski. There were three overarching goals that that the construction management professionals set, high quality, low cost, and fast timeline. And they said, you can pick two of the three. So while we agree that the education system must change, we're moving too fast and too narrowly. Lastly, I'd urge all legislators to work with the governor and his administration to articulate how the current situation in Vermont is not just about education. It's about all of our major systems, housing, health care, business, transportation, agriculture, and education, and how they interact together, not isolating education as the villain. And most importantly, it's about the people of Vermont and collectively defining who do we wanna be as a state. This broader and more complicated question needs to be addressed if we're to create a sustainable and effective plan for the future of Vermont. Thank you for your time and your leadership, and please always consider the needs of our unique and incredible NEK region, and most importantly, our NEK people. And before I go, I'm really excited that they're gonna introduce themselves, but the stars of the show this afternoon, I think, are our three students from Kingdom East, all hailing from the Burke Town School. Great, thank you very much.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Welcome. Would you all like to sit together or come up one at a time? That's a front. Okay, great, who's first?

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: So

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: welcome, and let me make very clear, we listen to a lot of adults here, but we get most excited when we get to have students come in and talk to us. Please feel at ease, and we're just really happy to have you here.

[Chloe Barrett]: Thank you for inviting us here today. My name is Chloe Barrett. I am from birth town school. I'm so excited to talk to you about some pros and cons of our community. Birthtown school is important to my community because it allows us to enter a safe learning place. It also offers both academic and emotional support to our students. Every day in the homeroom, our teachers provide activities to learn how to become members of our community and bond with each other. My school also offers unique programs like the ropes course at nearby Siskin, Boots, and the King and Sons of Place, where all students choose activities like swimming, golfing, mountain biking, and visiting farms. Every week throughout the winter, our school gives us the opportunity to either downhill ski, ice skate, or snowshoe. However, because of low staffing, low financial resources, and low population, I feel like we miss out on some opportunities compared to bigger towns. Fortunately, our classmates could not be with us here today because of a bus staffing shortage. We need a new gym because it's so small. The trailer that we use for classes are supposed to be temporary twenty five years old. They are still in use, and they are tiny, hot, moldy, and infested with rodents. I believe that our community members should pass the school budget, because it creates more opportunities and paths for our students. It means we'll be better prepared for high school. So thank you for listening.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Thank you. I'm going to warn the students, because the adults were very efficient with their time, I'm going to ask the committee if there's any questions for you when you each speak. Could you just tell us how many kids go to Burke Town School and how many grades it is?

[Chloe Barrett]: I think there's about 180 students, and it's Pre K through eight.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: And then, where do most kids from your school end up going to high school?

[Chloe Barrett]: Either LI or the Extension Academy.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Very much, thank you. Welcome to the House Education Committee.

[Ellen Diversey]: Hello and good afternoon. My name is Ellen Diversey, and I would like to thank you all very much for giving me the opportunity to test ify about my views on my school and education in Vermont. I'm currently in eighth grade at Brooktown School. I am part of the student council, the robotics team, and the Odyssey of the Minds program. I would like to talk I would like to talk about what I think is going well in my school and what needs improvement to make it a better educational environment. Our school is in such a rural rural place, so there is more outdoor space to enjoy and explore. But because of this space, people live so far apart that connecting outside of school can be difficult and sometimes frustrating. Many parts of our school's campus are very nice. We have bike trails, a soccer field, a pavilion, and a softball field. But I think that some of the buildings could be improved. Both the gym and the cafeteria are quite small and very old. The acoustics in the gym are terrible, so whenever we host any sort of activity, like the ski swap or dances or our all school assembly, it gets hot, loud, and uncomfortable. Our school is very important to our community because it brings people together for large events. For example, the annual ski swap provides people more affordable opportunities to participate in skiing and snowboarding. The ski swap also generates thousands of dollars every year for the parent teacher organization, which directly funds programs that our school can't provide. There are many field trips and activities that we do throughout the year. Last year, our school started experiential learning. Once a week, we would leave school around lunch and go to our chosen experience, either mountain biking, playing musical instruments, fishing. I found this to be a very fun way to get out of the classroom and do enriching activities with the community. Our school's after school program helps fund some of the activities that I do, as I mentioned before. The robotics team and the Odyssey of the Mind program promote growth in teamwork and problem solving skills. I think that passing the school budget each year is very important because it helps fund the materials and other programs that we need. But I realize that it can be financially difficult for the community members because whenever the budget is raised, the taxes are also increased. Thank you again for giving me the opportunity to testify about my school and Vermont's education.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Thank you very much. Committee, any follow-up questions? Robotics questions? There was just recently a robotics competition.

[Ellen Diversey]: Yes, at Global Foundries.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: How'd you

[Ellen Diversey]: do? Our team got 11 in the state.

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: Oh, good?

[Ellen Diversey]: Yes. And yeah, I feel like we did very well. Great.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: And we on to London?

[Ellen Diversey]: Yes, I'm gonna go to Scotland and institute. They have robotics there? Yes, they started the program last year. Excellent job. You will be captain one day. I actually, I was captain of the team this year.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Thank you everyone, appreciate it.

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: So good afternoon, everyone. I am so honored to be here today. I am Leland Morgan and I go to Brooktown School. My school has been a welcoming community with great educational opportunities as well as a positive learning environment. During my time at Burke, I have had a fun filled educational adventure, learning while hiking, presenting, and more. The inclusive and kind space at Burke makes me so grateful to be in a generous, healthy environment. I appreciate my school and educators more and more every day. Burke Town School is important to my community because it brings people of all ages together at fundraising events. While the legendary Burke Ski Swap brings affordable equipment to our whole community, other events like bingo night and our dances help bring out both our older and younger community members. My school's rural location is one of its biggest assets. We don't have to travel far to get to great hiking trails and have outdoor adventures. We also have access to cross country skis and snowshoes. We do outdoor team building exercises, and our campus has a nice large outdoor play area for recess and physical education. I believe that it is important for voters to pass the school budget. It helps fund our educational resources such as laptops, math books, pencils, and folders. If our school is funded well, the quality of our cafeteria food can be healthier. A good budget can help hire more bus drivers. It would have been really great to be able to have our whole class with us today, but sadly, we have a shortage of bus drivers. An important infrastructure need for Burke Town School is a full sized gym. PE could offer more games. For example, volleyball would be more enjoyable with a bigger playing space. Our gym is the largest room in our school, and it cannot hold the whole community for an event as it is. Another important infrastructure need my school has is a larger art room. Our current art space is very crowded. Having a bigger space would make a positive impact on every student in the school. The needs consist of adding natural light, providing more working space, building more storage for artwork in progress, and more art materials. So thank you for having me, and I'm excited to have been able to share my perspective with all of you. I appreciate your support of the Northeast Kingdom community, and your service is greatly noticed in Burke. We are all grateful to have it.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Thank you. Can't leave yet, see if there's any questions. I'll ask one. As you're all in eighth grade, so you have your big decision as to where to go to school next year. To what I guess, I grew up in a one school district place, so we all went to the same place for high school. To what extent do your peers, your friends help you in making that decision? And what do you feel sort of as a, I don't know, bit of a loss maybe because you're clearly gonna some are gonna go one place and some are gonna go to the other? How do you guys all navigate that? Must be very hard.

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: Yeah, it is. It's nice knowing that we're gonna make new friends and it's been really great. I've been at Brooktown School since March, actually. And it's been really welcoming for the time I've been here. And I've made really good friends too. And it's gonna be hard not seeing them at school, but I think it's comforting knowing that I'm gonna make new friends and I can always make it a point to see them outside of school. Yeah. Thanks. Where did you come from if you weren't there? Came from Newark, actually.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Newark.

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: That's surprising. No, it's just the next town over, but I live pretty close to the border of Burke and Newark. And it was a good, it's very, very small. Newark is very small, and I needed some more peers for sure. Yeah, but

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Did you bring your parents with you?

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: Oh, no. Well, have some friends that are still there. And then for school, I feel like, my choice is based off of what I want to do. So I am really into sports and soccer and they've got a really good program at St. Johnsbury Academy. And that was a big add for me to go to. I've chosen to go to St. Johnsbury. So that's definitely a big part.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: How far is it?

[Leland Morgan (student, Burke Town School)]: From my house, actually, it's around forty five minutes, so it's pretty far, but my brother goes there too, and he has his license and he can drive it inside. Awesome.

[Rep. Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Thank you very much. Thank you. Folks in the NEK are very efficient with their time, thank you all very much, but I just want to open it up to the committee if you have questions for any of the folks who spoke to us that you'd like to follow-up on. Thank you, committee. We are due downstairs at 02:15. Let's be there on time since we are breaking early. And I will call a close to our formal meeting here now, but just sort of open it up to folks if you wanna hang out and chat, that's fine as well. Appreciate y'all coming in and.