Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Okay, we are back at House Education on Wednesday, January 21. This is time for a little bit of a history lesson and some understanding of our participation and lack therein of the education commission of the states. And we have Annie Gianni with us, the state relations strategist for the Northeast or ECS to talk about it. And I will just tell everybody, this also involves budget requests as well, which is something we're gonna need to consider. Jana?

[Jana Brown (Clerk)]: Yeah. Hello, everybody.

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: Thank you, chair, for doing my whole introduction for me. Who needs? So today we're going go over a little bit about the history of the compact for education, and talk a little bit about state memberships and our commissioners, and then get into education commission of the states that I will often refer to as ECS, as well as our supports and services that we offer to states and Vermont resources and next steps for possibly rejoining the compact.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I'm gonna pause just a moment, for, Leland, since you're new to the committee, just so you know, Annie was our committee assistant for the last two years.

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: So, to get into a little bit of the history, it all kind of started in the 1960s. In the 1960s, there were multiple pieces of legislation and initiatives at the federal level to strengthen federal involvement in education policies in the states. And James Brian Conlon, who was an educator, scientist, diplomat, and also the president of Harvard University, put forth the idea of an interstate compact on education policy to counterbalance this new federal role. He wanted to create a mechanism for improving and strengthening educational policy and policy making at the state level. And this mechanism for him was supposed to give voice to the diverse interests of the states and their specific needs and traditions, and also enable them to collaborate and communicate with one another across state lines, and promote shared national attention on education policy topics that they were all tackling independently in their own contexts. And so, in 1965, John W. Gardner, who was the president of the Carnegie Corporation in New York, teamed up with Terry Sanford, who was the governor of North Carolina, to transform this idea into a reality. So as a result, they drafted the Compact for Education, and it was endorsed by representatives from all 50 states: Washington, D. C, The US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and American Samoa. After this, it was approved by Congress, and all 50 states, including Vermont, signed on to the compact by adopting the enacting language into their statutes. Vermont joined in 1967, later withdrawn from the So the compact was eventually created with the goal that states and territories should collaborate and share ideas as they work through similar challenges, specifically relating to education policy. And thus, the compact for education created ECS as the operating arm of the compact, and the states created us to essentially serve all of them, all of you, on education policy. So that's a little bit about the history, and we can talk about that in more detail if you

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: would

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: like. But a couple of things that make ECS really unique is that our work is really driven by our states and by our commissioners, and we get to work with education policymakers across the spectrum from governors to legislators, state boards, state departments, and higher education leaders. Another thing that makes us unique is that we get to work, we are the only education policy organization that gets to work across the entire spectrum of learning, from early care and childhood education to pre K, K-twelve, higher ed, post secondary workforce development, credentialing. We get to work with all of that, and it's really a great range of work and research that our team takes in, which means that we have this opportunity to work with a really wide array of education leaders. And so, what do our commissioners do? Well, going back to that former slide, our commissioners help guide Education Commission of the State's work, and they really help us align our work to each individual state's agendas and policy priorities, facilitating two way communication between us and the states. And here's a look at the role boost we have on the commission currently from our states. Every state's enacting statute allows for seven commissioners or state leaders that we call commissioners to be on the commission, and this does vary for some states. They might have changed their commission appointments, but generally it is two legislators, one from each legislative body appointed by the speaker and the pro tem, and then the governor and four governor's appointees. And while there may be some variation, the original language in the contract as well as practice encourages that the governor's appointees include the chief state school officer, and for Vermont that would be Secretary Saunders. We also have a lot of governors who appoint members of their state board and their education policy advisors. We actually had Jason Molucci in a regional convening in Hartford this October, and it was really great to have him there as part of those conversations across state lines. We also have governors who appoint leaders in their higher education systems or in very prominent state universities. And then we also have governors who appoint education leaders from the field. And so we're really lucky to have all of these voices on the commission serving all of their states in these national conversations. And so our commissioners and the commission is really led by an executive group who rotates every two years. Currently, our chair is Governor Mark Gordon, and our chair is always a governor, and we alternate political parties every two years with every term. Our previous chair was Governor Laura Kelly from Kansas, and our current vice chair is Senator Schulz from New Mexico. Previously, role was filled by North Dakota State Senator Shively, and currently our Treasurer is Erin Thompson, the President of the Kentucky Council on Postsecondary Education. Previously, our Treasurer was Connecticut's Commissioner of Education, Charlie Muscle Tucker. And in addition to the Executive Committee, one commissioner from Wauwee State is a member of our steering committee, and our steering committee members get to participate in one of four committees that we have going throughout the year, one being the nominating committee, who is in charge of awarding our annual awards, and our finance committee who approves our income and expenditures every year. And then our National Forum Planning Committee does exactly what it sounds like it does. They help plan and contribute to our National Forum on Education policy every July. This is our flagship policy event where we bring together our commissioners, other state leaders in education, other education policy organizations who also do research, as well as other partners in education development. And then we also finally have our Futures Issues Committee, which I think really has a very strong hand in guiding our work. They do a very good job at aligning our priorities every two years to the needs of the states, and they set out our direction every two years on what topics we're focusing on and where we're going to be expanding our resources. Topics, so that you can learn from them and also share what's worked in your own states.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: That's unfortunate because we need you to tell us what will work for

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: We can introduce you with food groups in New Hampshire and

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Maine if you would like. Is Vermont literally the only city that is not? Alright. We're getting there.

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: We're very special. Wait, I ask why we are not So in order to serve you and other states and other leaders from across the country, we have a really fantastic policy team who support state leaders like yourselves by sharing education policy research from across the country, and they also track legislation, governance initiatives, and department initiatives year round across the country. And our policy team creates research and reports, many of which can be found on our website. And we have these 50 states comparisons that are a collection of data points on any specific education policy area that compares what all 50 states have on a specific topic. One example that might be relevant to this committee is a K-twelve funding 50 state comparison. I believe that this committee has looked at data points from this before in previous testimonies. But in addition to those, we also provide more customized research through what we call information requests. And these are customized research memos that our policy team is able to prepare on any education policy topic that you hear. Usually what happens is commissioners come from me, come to me, as your state relations strategist for the Mid Atlantic and Northeast states, they come to me with their questions, I will facilitate those to our policy team, and we aim to have a written response to these questions within three to five days for our leaders. In addition to written materials, we also convene policymakers in the event that I've already shared. We also provide nonpartisan testimony and presentations to groups much like this one. And we're also able to meet one on one with experts and leaders and their teams to share, to provide counsel on a specific policy topic, or connect them with other states. And on that note, ECS has been an active supporter for Vermont's education policy work in the last couple of years. And in addition to this presentation, we have a document on the website that lists all of the ECS supports and services we've provided to the state in 2024 and 2025. And we share these annual reports with our member states every year to ensure clarity of our services for them at the start of every new fiscal year. But to sum up that document so you don't have to read through the whole four pages, In 2024 and 2025, Education Commission of the States provided four legislative testimonies to the state of Vermont, four of those were in joint hearings, five policy consultations to individuals across the state, five state connections to other experts across the country, and we've had registrants and attendees from Vermont at 12 different meetings and webinars in the last two years, and that has totaled to 23 participants from the state. And we've also provided 19 customized information requests to readers that you may know. And another thing about information requests is that they are confidential. We're not going to share what you're asking of us with other people. For example, if Representative Brady asks about topic A, I'm not going to go to Chair Conlon and say, Rep Brady asked for this. Is this okay? Or Rep Brady asked for this. We can testify to the committee. We leave those in between us and the person requesting to do what they want with the information we share. So these are the supports that we have provided to Vermont in the last couple of years, but member states get more in-depth supports that are a little bit more robust and a little bit more involved. So, as I've already shared, our member states have a standing committee member, and they really help drive our work and represent state goals and state priorities on our commission. In addition to this, we have thinkers meetings, and thinkers meetings are where our policy team invites subject matter experts from across the states on a specific policy topic, and they bring these folks together to discuss where there are deficits in resources and research, and our policy team then strategizes on that to be able to expand national resources on that topic. For example, our team recently finished up some really, really great work in statewide longitudinal data systems, and we now have what may be the largest dashboard of statewide longitudinal data systems in the country of all 50 states where education data is published publicly. And this all started at a meeting that one of our policy team members led with education data leaders from across the country. And then we also invite member states to participate in policy academies policy symposiums. These are intensive two to three day workshops where we workshop strategizing or implementation of a specific policy area. For example, in this past fall, we hosted four states in an in person convening in Denver to discuss developmental education reform in higher education, and we sat down and met with institutional leaders and system leaders across those four participating states for those three days. And the efforts are ongoing, and we continue to work with those states on how that implementation is going. And through those three days meetings, we really work on adjusting the strategies that they want to implement to their individual context. And so it really is very helpful for those teams. The last longer term support that we provide are called community of practice, where we provide ongoing support to a cohort of states on a specific education policy topic, usually culminating in an in person event where we bring all of these states together to discuss this policy topic across different state contexts and lines. In the last year, we have hosted communities of practice on teacher preparation, as well as college and career readiness. The year before that, we had one on STEAM education. And in 2026, we are hosting a community of practice on that same higher education policy framework that we had in our policy academy last fall. And then our final additional support for member states that would be most immediately relevant for Vermont once you join is that we provide financial travel support for commissioners to attend and travel to our National Forum on Education Policy, as well as join us at our winter commissioners meeting, which again is a lot more focused on the commissioners and supporting what research you need there. So as I've already shared, Vermont withdrew from the compact and

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I'm going to stop you right there. I just want to sort of of reiterate for people that organizations like ECS are not just there for legislators, but the agency of education, the Department of Labor can all avail themselves as a member of all of these resources. And maybe perhaps that's the more of what you do then with legislators, I don't know.

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: Yes, so during the legislative session, as you can probably assume, there are a lot more requests for testimonies, but throughout the year, we're providing a lot more in-depth support to departments who are doing the implementation year round, partially because they're more active throughout the summer and fall than a lot of legislators. So in 'ninety three, Vermont withdrew from the compact by repealing the joining language from their statute. It was originally in Title 16, Chapter 35. We're not 100% sure why the state withdrew in 'ninety three. However, we can assume that it might have had something to do with economic downturn. We have had five other states withdraw for these reasons, but all of those states have also rejoined the compact since then. Vermont's the only state that has not rejoined the compact and is not currently a member. Your next steps would be rejoining the compact, and passing the authorizing language through a bill is a really great way to do so. It will also allow for the speaker, pro tem, and the governor to make all of their appointments to the commission, so you can have Vermont representation in these national conversations, also driving our work. And then finally, the state would be added to our annual cycle for membership dues, as well as our very frequent and ongoing conversations about emerging policy research and initiatives. And as I said, we would be able to invite you to some of our more intensive supports as well.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: The story is actually a little more complicated than that, because I think probably no one really knew that we stepped away from the compact and thought we were just non dues paying members. So one, since I've been here, we've taken advantage of EC and S for the testimony and information and all of that. And then it became clear that we hadn't been paying our dues. So in 2023, the I think was 2023, the AOE included our dues, which which what's the number for that?

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: The Vermont state dues are 53,100, and Vermont is on the lowest tier for state dues, because we use a calculation that takes into account population and some other factors. We also haven't increased our state dues since the two thousand and eight recession, and the organization moves forward with no intention of increasing those dues.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So in 2023, Vermont paid their dues? It's kind of out of the list. It's like a little bit of surprise to everybody. What was that?

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: Which year was that? '23, Secretary I French and deputy secretary Boucher paid the dues. We also found out very recently that the AOE tried to pay the dues in 2024 as well, and we never received the check, so we recently received an email from their accounting team to confirm a check that was never cashed. So that check is now on the way for 2024 dues.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So I think what's in front of us is a proposal to sort of clean all this up and return to being those paying members, which we seem to have already done, but we are part of the compact. So we'll get some testimony from the legislative council that we need to basically readopt the compact language from the 60s that we drop in '93 for reasons that we don't really know, but we're theorizing we're economic. So to not only be, you know, for two years we've been paying our dues without actually being a member. Throughout my time here, ECS has been kind enough, I would say, to provide us with anything we've ever asked for. And up to and including being part of some of these regional gatherings and free travel for people to go to things. I was at the same event at Hartford. So that's kind of where we're at. A little bit more expensive than AARP, the usual. Did you get a free travel bag or something?

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: What is the total amount of the dues? The total amount is 53,100.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Yes. So we I don't know whether it's it's one of you that asked this, but but since it sounds like the check is on the way, you know, for this 2024, do we anticipate this being part of the budget? No, not a clue. Yeah, I think it's a good question. So if AOE is paying it, then it's coming out of their budget. Yes, yeah, would be a general fund allocation from the Agency of Education. Okay, so that's And you know, in what part of other compacts including the UN report of higher education? I just follow that. Do we know, was it in, I don't remember it being in, was paying 2023, sounds like paying for 2024. Do we know if

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: it was in our budget last year? So it wasn't paid for 2025, but one of those reasons might have been that ECS didn't bill the state in 2025.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Because

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: Since we didn't receive the original 2024 check, we assumed that in the leadership transition, we had lost our connection to the state, and so ECS didn't bill us, Vermont, in 2025. So

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: if this committee would like to move forward with rejoining, I've asked legislative counsel to put the compact language into the miscellaneous ed bill to readopt, and then if it's not in the AOE budget, we'll need to advocate for that money being.

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: You think the AOE would support our advocacy? I have spoken with Deputy Secretary Briggs Campbell on this a couple of times, and she uses our resources as well. This is a standard compact that all 50 states are part of. It's not new to any other state besides Vermont.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So maybe when we have our presentation from the AOE on the budget meeting, just remember to ask the question. It's such a small number that I doubt it will be part of their presentation.

[Annie Gianni (ECS State Relations Strategist)]: And I think I remember in my last conversation with the deputy secretary, she said she was going to look into where the $20.24 deuce payment had come from.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: So we are kind of building a miscellaneous education bill, as we sort of add smaller items, bunching them all together. Any other questions for Ms. Gianni? All right. I actually thought that I meant to have legislative counsel here to go over the language with us, but we'll do that at another date when we go through the miscellaneous education bill. But hearing no objection to sort of proceeding down that path, we'll proceed down that path. Great, thank you very much. Thank you. So everybody, we kind of have a half hour break here, just to the folks online. Josh, Kate, and Beth, please join us back at eleven if you can, that would be great.