Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Alright, we are House Education on 01/06/2026. For our first testimony of the session, we are fortunate to have the Secretary of Education with us. Really, the purpose today is to talk about what's going on at the agency in terms of reorganization that we've heard a lot about and priorities for the future. This is not meant to be a deep dive into Act 73, that's gonna come later in the week. So if you have questions, that's fine. But if you're wondering why the secretary isn't testifying on that, it's because that was not on the menu. Anyway, I'm gonna turn the floor right over to you. Welcome and thank you for being here.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Good afternoon. I'm honored to be your first to join in committees. Thank you for having me. I'd like to begin by introducing one of our new team members who you'll be working with really closely throughout the legislative session. We have a new Director of Policy and Communications, Ballard. So I'll let you just introduce yourself quickly.

[Torren Ballard (Director of Policy and Communications, AOE)]: Hi, everybody. Yeah. My name is Ballard, Director of Communications and Policy at the agency. Joined the agency at the very tail end of last year's session, so still kind of getting acclimated, but very much looking forward to working with everybody here. Thank you. Thanks. I

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: guess I'm going to just take a moment while I have a chance. For those of you who have taken the time to read through the various reports that have been presented to us, Tor and I assume played a large role in that, as did Lindsay, as did the team behind them with the information. The reports came in on time when they were supposed to and are also in a rather easy to read format. So I recommend everybody spend as much time as possible and just really appreciate the work you guys put into all of that.

[Torren Ballard (Director of Policy and Communications, AOE)]: Absolutely, happy.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Well, delighted to be here. Today's focus is on the reorganization. The chair asked me to provide an update on the work that's been underway at the agency to align our work to the priorities of the state. So in this presentation, I'll share a little background on how we came to the changes that we made through our reorganizational structure. I'll give an overview of the new structure and walk you through some of the new divisions that have been created to help emphasize our focus on the areas that we've heard. Need to provide some additional support to the field. I'll spend some time talking about how this aligns with the overall strategic plan. This connection is deeply described within the reports that we shared with the legislature. And we did submit a press release yesterday just to highlight the number of reports that have gone out. They're all very much connected to our strategic planning process, and actually were critical to supporting some of the internal change management work that we were doing as an agency to ensure that we were really aligning our work and expertise to meet the needs of the moment. And then I'll share with you some of the process that we're in for recruiting, some critical roles and the next steps. So we started, at the Agency of Education, we always start with our why. That's central to the work that we do. So we worked with staff really closely over the last eighteen months in our strategic planning process that involved an environmental scan to identify what the needs were of the field. And we organized with our teams every month to really evaluate how we could better provide support to our districts and our schools. And so the question of why now was really important as we endeavor to do this work. We recognize that there are increasing demands on the agency of education for transformative leadership and also direction setting to elevate academic achievement and improve operational efficiency. We heard really consistently through our listen and learn tour a need for stronger academic leadership and also training and support. Additionally, as you all know, when we spent a lot of time last session talking about the federal uncertainty, and that really helped us understand that we needed to have even stronger leadership and coordinated support at the agency, given that level of uncertainty and disruption that was impacting the field, impacting the agency, and obviously was top of mind for you as you're thinking about some of the funding implications for those potential changes. We also recognize that we needed to realign our work. I think that was evident to me early on in my tenure based on the feedback that we were receiving from the fields and the questions that we were receiving from legislators. And so we worked really hard to realign our organization to really better serve the state of Vermont. I'm proud of our team for the work that has gone into the process and really feel that we, through this effort, have strengthened our ability to meet our mission and also to lead in the areas that are of most critical importance. This reorganization is also designed to make us more agile and responsive. One of the key tenets of our transformation work internally within our organization is to break down silos and to make sure that we're promoting that level of collaboration across divisions and teams. So how did we get here? This didn't happen overnight. This was a very intensive and methodical process where we used data both in analyzing the quantitative data in terms of our overall performance as an education system and qualitative data and really capturing the voices and perspective of the field through the listen and learn tour. We also, in 2024, we had our federal monitoring visit from the US Department of Education. And in their monitoring report, they identified several findings in areas where we as an agency had to develop action plans to improve upon our work to meet the requirements. What was interesting about that process is that the findings from the federal monitoring visit were really consistent with what we were hearing the listen and learn for. And that helped us to really make some strategic decisions around how we could operate differently and strengthen our work. We also know that last year, there's landmark education transformation passed. And so as we're thinking about the entire education system changing, it's appropriate that the agency of education also needs to change. And that was very clear to us through the process. Beyond Act 73, it's important to note that there have been a number of other really impactful education laws that have passed in the last decade in Vermont, and that they also require some additional attention. We have evaluated the implementation of prior reform efforts and our learning from that process has helped us to identify how we can organize ourselves as an agency to better support that implementation and also to strengthen the way that we evaluate the implementation of these education priorities for the legislature to report back to you on where we are, what our progress is, how we can continue to improve. And then all along the way, we involved our staff in this planning process. As many of you are aware, the Agency of Education has not had a strategic plan in a very long time. And one of the first things I asked staff was raise your hand if you were part of the last last strategic planning process. And two people raised their hand. And I said, at the end of this, everyone will raise their hands because everyone will be part of this. And that's also why we designed the listen and learn tour so that the work that we're doing, the actions we're taking are clearly responsive and reflective to what we're hearing from the field. So through our reorganization, what do we hope to achieve? We've organized ourselves to deliver on the five strategic pillars that form the foundation for our plan, which are focused on improving academic excellence, expanding college and career readiness, promoting safe and healthy schools, supporting operational effectiveness, both from a state perspective and also internally as an organization, and ensuring high quality special education services and differentiated support for all learners. And so as we think about our overarching theory of action, we believe that if we're able to organize and deliver on improvements in these areas, we can achieve our vision of being the best education systems in the country where we give all kids fruits and wings. And that's been an organizing framework for us, as we establish that North Star of our work. So that resulted in a very comprehensive reorganization to how we operate at the Agency of Education. This is a high level view of that structure. When we published the memo that I believe all of you have received, it also includes the detail around the structure within these areas. Additionally, when we did this reorganization, we recognized that it was important to improve our customer service. So part of this effort included the publication of a directory where now you can search for an area of expertise that you're looking for some guidance from the agency, and you'll be able to have some interactive way to identify those folks in the agency who can help you. So I'll walk you through how we're structured. So you've met our Director of Policy and Communications, Torren Ballard, who joined our team last spring. We've expanded that team to provide some additional communication and administrative support across the agency of education. And the effort there is to ensure that we can provide more targeted communication that is customized to the different stakeholders that we work with. Part of this effort will also be building out our website, which we are really looking forward to the opportunity to transform that aligned to our strategic plan. Additionally, beyond communications, we recognize that policy is a year long effort. And so part of this is to intentionally build additional capacity to both manage the communication demands and the policy demands, understanding that it's not just around the research behind the policy, but also ensuring that we can support the effective implementation of policy. And the chair noted the number of reports that we've provided but also involves project managing to ensure that we're delivering on those requirements and providing you with timely recommendations. Our legal counsel has the legal area. So we've organized this in areas. And under each area, there are specific divisions. The legal area of our division has remained largely similar to our prior organizational structure. This is led by our legal counsel, Emily Simmons. This is where our staff attorneys are reporting in and they provide guidance on an array of compliance issues across a variety of programs, state and federal laws. We also have an education investigations team that reviews issues with teacher licensure and public records. Our Deputy Secretary, you all know Jill Briggs Campbell, serves as our Chief Operations Officer. Under Jill, she oversees the Finance and Management Division, the Data Management and Analysis Division. We've created two new areas of focus, so the Safe and Healthy Schools division, the Grants Management division and Child Nutrition. The Safe and Healthy Schools division was intentionally designed to promote that strategic pillar around promoting safe and healthy schools. And so that encapsulates both the physical security of schools and also the wraparound support that we provide to students and helps to bring together the team that really supports some of those vulnerable students in the state together to be able to work collaboratively. And they also work very closely with sister agencies and DCF. The grants management unit is designed to ensure that we can optimize all federal and state dollars. Historically, we have left money on the table and we want to make sure that we're providing the right guidance and oversight to ensure that those dollars are being used to really advance the priorities of districts and schools. So that dedicated focus is intended to support that effort. We created a new area, which is our academics area. And with that, we established a new position called the Chief Academic Officer. Doctor. Erin Davis has joined our team in the summer. And many of you have met her. You'll be able to have an opportunity throughout the legislative session. And she is leading a team that is focused on special education and two new areas that we've created, which are instruction and curriculum. And this is intended to provide support around developing evidence based instructional practices and supporting that implementation across the state. Education programs is bringing together the oversight and support that we provide for pre K all the way to adult education learning, ensuring that we can have an integrated continuum of support and oversight across the students' experience and school improvement lives within the academic area. We've created another area called Strategy and Accountability. We have created a new position to lead that area. It's a Chief Strategy and Accountability Officer. We are actually in the process of interviewing for that position. And under this area of our organization is strategy and education transformation, accountability, assessment and education program approvals. When we think about accountability, I think it's important to identify that this is comprehensive. We know that Vermonters care strongly about a whole child approach. And so the team here is ensuring that we have an integrated and coherent way of evaluating school quality, district quality, so that we as an agency can better differentiate our support depending on the needs of a district and school. Education program approvals is designed to ensure that we can evaluate an improved level of quality across all the settings. And so that includes oversight and approval of our independent schools. It also provides us additional capability to oversee the approval of BOCES and some other initiatives around resource sharing. With respect to strategy and education transformation in that division, we're evolving that to really focus that on district and school support. So, there are certain positions that have been allocated to us tied to Act 73, and we'll talk a little bit about those in a moment. But that team is really designed to be the field facing team to provide embedded support beyond the efforts around Act 73 to really enable us to differentiate the way that we're providing targeted support in the field for continuous improvement and support. And that's in direct response to feedback that we've received in the field. So briefly, as we touch on the alignment with the strategic plan, all of these changes align closely with our strategic pillars and the state's education priorities. It will help us to improve coordination in our work to break down silos and make sure that we're leveraging the expertise and skills that we have at the agency and maximizing that impact. I will mention that this whole process of reorganization was done in a strengths based way. So we really met individually with our team members. We identified a lot of talents that weren't being fully leveraged. And so there's some exciting opportunities where our leadership is on new roles based on some deep experience they have that they weren't able to really share as much in their prior goals. All of the changes that we've made have been intentional in elevating our focus on the areas that we have identified as priorities. And again, those priorities were identified based on data, based on laws that you have passed expressing the priorities for the state of Vermont and the qualitative feedback we received from the field. So within that, we have elevated the focus on special education. So we have elevated the role to a state director role for special education, which sits on my extended cabinet. We also created a position for the deputy chief of academics that will provide additional leadership and support over the Special Education Division. We have expanded that team to ensure that we can provide more monitoring and support. And in addition to that, beyond just the division and how it's structured, we identified specific roles that were needed in the agency, in other divisions to support the delivery of special education. And that resulted in the creation of a new role, which was the special education finance director, which sits on our finance team, and also informed the development of the grants management team to ensure that we could have more focused oversight of IDEA grants. With pre kindergarten, the leadership of the pre K team, that role has been elevated also to a state director and sits on my extended cabinet to ensure that we are really focused on the needs of our youngest learners with the decision making at the agency level. Safe and Healthy Schools is an entirely new division that has touched on that a little bit earlier. Within this division, they also oversee the work that we're doing around prevention for hazing, harassment and bullying, as well as school climate and culture. Curriculum and Instruction is a brand new division that we have organized. Education Finance is an area that we have expanded support. So we've been able to grow this team, recognizing the increased demands and the need for additional financial data in the field to support effective budgeting and to really ensure that those dollars are going as far as possible. We recently hired an education, school education finance director, who we'll be able to work with throughout the session. Accountability and school improvement is another new area of our agency. Again, this is, when we think about accountability, we know that that word can come with a lot of baggage. And so we spent a lot of time in the field talking about what that means. And ultimately, it means that we're holding ourselves accountable to delivering on the best opportunities for students. And that helps us to drive continuous improvement efforts. And so we've worked in the field of really defining that definition, identifying what data needs to be considered, and how we approach that work in a way that is not punitive, but is really helping to drive improvement and expand the support. And then education program approvals is now a dedicated focus, where before it had been scattered throughout the team. So we've been more organized with that. Part of that effort is also addressing the backlog that we've had with independent schools, approvals is one area that's a priority. In terms of recruitment and next steps, there were five new positions that were created from as an appropriation last session tied to Act 73. Those positions are specialized in curriculum support, learning and teaching, facilities, data and business operations. At this moment in time, those positions are funded for eight months. It is our hope, we've consistently said, that those are permanent positions, because we do see that beyond the transformation, it's important to have that field facing team supporting continuous improvement efforts. As part of our reorganization, we did look at some of the vacancies that we had, and we were really intentional around evaluating how those roles and the major job responsibilities needed to be realigned to advance the strategic priorities and goals of the state. And so through that process, we have created new positions. We are in different phases of recruitment and hiring for those roles. And these are just an example of that to reflect the diversity of the responsibilities across our pillars. So that includes the deputy chief of academics, who is a new role that will be directly reporting to our new chief academic officer. We'll have a curriculum instructional design lead, school health and wellness coordinator, and chief strategy and accountability officer. So I share this just to identify the work that we're doing to be really thoughtful around how we can maximize the positions that we have at the agency to deliver on really the increased demands and responsibilities for moving forward. So, next steps in the process, and we've been really clear about taking a change management approach with this work. It's all aligned to our strategic plan. We had a planning retreat in November with over 300 participants to really build the plan. Subsequent planning retreats that we'll host every year will track progress towards our goals and make adjustments as needed. And we've established steering committees because we know we've been really clear that it's not a one and done. So all of this work has been building from the last eighteen months. The planning retreat was a great opportunity to really solidify the framework. And then in the end of this month, we'll be convening steering committees that are organized around the five pillars. And they'll be providing input for us around how we can set measurable multi year targets and the key performance indicators that we've identified. At the same time, our new divisions are engaged in division planning. And again, that division planning is really important to operationalize the goals that we've set forward. And we're doing this in a way to ensure that there is that coordination across divisions so that we're really leveraging the expertise and skills that our team members have and supporting the collaboration that's needed to address the larger goals that have been set forth through the agency. That is what I had to provide as an overview. And I would just say that we're really proud of where we are as an agency, and there's a lot of momentum to move forward, and it's really exciting to see the work and the impact. Any questions you have?

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Thank you very much. I have a couple. What do you see in 2026 as sort of the big federal uncertainties that you need to think about and plan for?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: If you recall, we provided a presentation to the State Board of Education early in the summer, and we identified the budget items that we're tracking, that continues to be the areas that we're focusing on. There are certain programs that are more vulnerable. The same programs that were vulnerable last year as part of the president's budget are ones that we are tracking and paying attention to. And so those would include Title II, so professional development funds for teachers. Also, adult education and learning is an area, twenty first century after school, so it's an area that had some vulnerability last year. So we are being clear eyed about that. I'd be happy to share that presentation that we provided to the state board. Not much has changed since that time, but of course, as we're moving forward, there will be a need for frequent updates.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: We know it's sort of three that you outlined, Title II, adult education, after school, is it just uncertainty at this point or okay? Uncertainty. Other questions? Sure.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: I had a quick follow-up to that. At what point in the cycle of the year does that sort of come more into focus? Can you sort of remind us about when we might have a better sense of what that's gonna look like? Yeah, later in the spring, through the reconciliation process. So what we do is we are tracking the budget from the Senate and the House and mapping on where there are discrepancies and paying attention to that and seeing where they'll end up. And it is just as it was last year at that point, it is helpful, think, for our team that monitors and receives federal programs to be in on a regular basis and giving you real time updates on where we are and what we're tracking. But in education, we are forward funded, it does give us a little bit more of a runway as we plan. Still, it is important to be on top of that and understand those impacts. As you recall, last year, there were some funding implications that affected current year with some of the grants that had been approved by the prior administration, and then that approval had been rescinded. So that was a little bit of a unique situation where because we're forward funded, it's usually another year out that those impacts would hit our budgets.

[Emily Long (Member)]: Thank you. First, I just want to say thank you for this. It's very helpful, and it feels a lot more strategic. The planning you're doing, the strategic planning, that's great, and I really appreciate that. You mentioned about when I I'm going back to the chart, the organizational You've mentioned in there that you have that you've received a memo with more detail. I don't believe her, and then you probably don't even really need to answer this. What I would love to see is the full organization chart again, like we asked for last year. I remember I asked for it last year, and I'd love to see about how you mentioned vacancies. And we had temp positions. It

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: was a tough chart.

[Emily Long (Member)]: And it feels like there's a lot more intentional use of staff in here. And I would really love to see that full organizational chart and including the vacancies that are left, if there are some. I really appreciate you addressing that. And also the funding stream for them. I know you feel the same way I do, but everything feels so tenuous coming out of the federal funds. And if we have positions that are in that organizational chart that are funded federally, I'd love to know which ones those are, that kind of thing. So a little more detail around that would be really great. I'm not pushing this. Maybe you already have it in place, but thank you. Absolutely. So

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: we published a memo in September, I believe. If it was not uploaded to this testimony, I'll make sure that it is, I'll follow-up with Matt to share that. The memo walks through a little bit more detail how we arrived at these changes and then outlines the specific functions of each of the divisions, including their core operational work, like the day to day work that they're responsible for, along with their strategic work, which is aligned to new efforts to advance our priorities. Additionally, there's an organizational chart that we published in September that I can supply you with today. And then part of the work that we're doing now is also updating that there have been positions filled since September when that organizational chart was published. Additionally, within the memo, it gets into a little bit more detail about how we are staging the implementation of our reorganization. So as I mentioned, there's one senior executive position on my cabinet that we have not yet hired. And so the roles under the Chief Strategy and Accountability Officer have been overseen across me, Bill as the deputy, and Erin as the Chief Academic Officer. So you'll see that level of detail. And actually, that staging was quite helpful for us because it really allowed us to take stock around, is this the right organization, given that this is a new area of the agency of education? And so there'll be some updates there because we're hiring for some of those new roles, which is really exciting. And then as part of that effort, and has been included in our thirty, sixty, ninety day plan is doing the audit for the funding source. So just ensuring that as we're looking at major job responsibility shifting for some team members, ensuring that they're tied proportionally correct to the funding source. So that takes a little bit more time. I'll just say that the audit that's underway, it'll take a little bit more time, but today I can share this with you with the organizational chart And the redistricting task force had asked us for some information related to the funding, so that was also provided over the summer. So there's some information now that I think would be quite useful for you.

[Emily Long (Member)]: Just one quick follow-up. It just occurred to me while you were sharing all that, last year we had a conversation around how many outside consultants we had been using, and it feels, this again feels so much more intentional. If there still is outside consultants being used and temporary positions that they have, that would be great to put on too.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: I can share that. And also that, as part of this new strategy arm, there's a new functionality to support strategic budgeting and contract management. And as part of the last year, it was really evaluating the return on investment of contracts that we've had longstanding. And I can share there have been significant adjustments to the amount of resources allocated. And then for those appropriated funds where we do need outside subject matter experts, that work is really aligned and ensuring that it's coordinated with the work that's happening at the agency and that it's building capacity. So for example, as you know, we're doing a lot of work to support Act 139 and promoting statewide literacy outcomes. We were able to secure additional funding because that didn't come with the bill to provide some resources and training to the field. But those our team members are also participating in training to develop skills and hone their skills around coaching and literacy for the field. So everything that we're doing that involves an outside vendor or contractor is intentional in providing support and training internally as well from a sustainability perspective.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I would definitely agree with representative Long. It definitely seems more strategic. Tell me a little bit about sort of I assume you're still somewhat inward focused as you build this mjord? Sort of what point does it become more outward focused? Think about things like accountability, special ed focus, that sort of thing.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: So we've actually had to do both at the same time, which has helped us. It's made us ensure that the changes we're making internally are the right changes to support the field externally. So we've actually been engaged in a parallel path, and we've been explicit about that in working with our partners in the field. That's part of the reason we had the strategic planning retreat. And we had participation from over 95% of our supervisory unions, supervisory districts at that event. And it was designed to ensure that we're all on the same page. We laid out components of a vision statement for the future of public education. We broke out into sessions where we really were able to delve deeper into the specific areas. So to your question around how this is working externally, we're actually building that with the field. And the reports that we have provided have all incorporated feedback from educators across the state of Vermont. And they're all really clear about identifying how we are using that data and information to inform our strategies and support in the field. So it's a process that has been done intentionally together to support the field. Did that answer your question?

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: It does, yeah. Just curious as to sort of, if you use the word operationalize, where does it turn from you building what you need to the field, being able to take advantage of all of that?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: That's great, just to put a finer point. When we rolled out our strategic plan framework at the retreat, we said, we're working together to build a multi year plan, but we know that there are needs now that we have to prioritize. And so, we have identified and already launched what we've called accelerated initiatives across those five pillars. So supporting literacy, we have a math pilot that we're working on, we are doing some pilot work around reimagining personalized learning plans. We have some training that will start around best evidence based and best practices in teaching and learning to enhance tier one instruction, multi tiered systems support and special education delivery. So within our strategic plan framework, we've outlined how we're immediately operationalizing the plan and then working with the steering committees, we've actually started to identify very concrete strategies. And part of the benefit of those steering committees continuing from January through the spring, is really informing what that delivery looks like. We have to be iterative and recognize that for us to be impactful, we have to learn what's working and make some adjustments. And I'll share that we've made adjustments already with some of our major initiatives, and Reef Vermont is one example, when we had some vulnerability with the funding. As you recall, that was funded by the ESSER Fund, some of the big initiative, we really had to evaluate how we could sustain that over multiple years. And we were able to do that. And in that process, actually strengthen our support. So we've launched the Reed Vermont Institute, and we've pivoted to provide some of the targeted coaching and leadership support to that effort. So just an example of how we're really, this is not a plan that's going on a shelf, we're really taking this to heart as a way for us to better support the field.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: Are you able to say any more at this point about how you are reimagining personalized learning plans and particularly interest?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Yeah, absolutely. We hosted, I think the chair was part of that breakout session at our Planning Room.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I think I was, yes.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Yes. So we brought together, we had two breakout sessions around that, and we actually have a pilot right now where there are 11 supervisory unions that are part of that effort to help us to reimagine. What we've identified through this process is that right now, even though it's law, so every seventh to twelfth graders should have a personalized learning plan, we know that about 50% the schools are actually implementing the personalized learning plan, and that's being done in a variable way across the state. And in some cases, it feels like it's more of a compliance checklist and isn't driving meaningful teaching and learning practices. So reimagining personalized learning plans is really thinking about how we can implement them as intended and helping the plans really provide that connection across the teacher, the parent, the interventionist, the counselor at the school. And so that is a combination of both supporting with data integration, supporting improved processes, and also potentially some technology support as well in that effort. So what we've been doing and we started at the planning retreat is to identify one, what are the barriers? Because I think research indicates this is the right practice. Vermont is behind us, it's part of Act 77. We know that this is valuable to students, but we clearly have some implementation challenges. So first, it's what are the barriers? Second, it's what are the possibilities if we could remove those barriers and how could we take this to the next level? We have a report that provides the major themes from our strategic planning retreat. There is a section in that report that describes the main findings from that working session around personalized learning plans. And then part of it also is to think about that from kindergarten through twelfth grade. Of course, there's need to be age appropriate at every level, but really thinking intentionally around how this can be a lever to provide students with agency over their learning so that they really understand what they're ready to learn next. And also a way for them to identify interests. It's a way for teachers to be able to customize lesson planning for students based on their interest and to help with grouping and support of students. So we're really excited about the possibilities, but we're working with a team to understand how to reimagine and what would be needed, what needs to be in place, what level of support would be necessary to make them meaningful as intended.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: In one of the reports, I think it was the sort of the special ed update that received, it focused was on taking the goals of Act 173, our special ed, and kind of making it happen.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: That's right.

[Emily Long (Member)]: That's what we're

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: doing, making it happen.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like on the ground?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Absolutely. So you're going to hear us this session talk a lot about implementation. When we evaluate the laws that have been passed, they're the right laws, the right focus, there's been tremendous research and thought behind that. We struggled with implementation as a state. And so an example is the Act 173. And part of the special education report evaluated that and was really explicit that the best practices identified in Act 173 are the best practices. They're still the best practices. They're the things we believe are really important to implement in every classroom across the state. But we identified that there was a challenge in implementation, there was a challenge in also data, and actually being able to track the effectiveness of that implementation and the level of training and support. So, are now in the, this is an area where we believe we could benefit from support from a national expert in concert with our steering committee to design a training program. So, we're looking to bring in resources that is a statewide training and support around these evidence based practices. That's what the Special Education Steering Committee told us was needed. They were really clear and we were transparent in documenting that we didn't have the right monitoring tools in place when we went to the next 73, we don't have the right level of data to evaluate effectiveness, and there was a big training gap. And so that is all going into one of our accelerated initiatives, which is to support the implementation of the best. We don't have a great title for it, admit, we've not gone back and forth, but it's to implement the best practices in teaching and learning. So that's what that will look like. You'll see statewide cohorts. We've also received very consistent feedback from the field that it's not just about guidance documents. It's not just about diagnosing the issue. So we do need monitoring tools that are consistent. But we're taking that a step further and talking about training. And then we're talking about those tools that all of it go down into the classroom, teacher observations, classroom support tools as well. And that's part of the benefit of now having a really dedicated academic area that's focusing on that alignment all the way down to the classroom.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Long overdue, not your fault, you weren't here at the time, but good to hear that it really does mean sort of, in the classroom and lots and lots of professional development. So

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: I'm curious to know with the ACT 173 implementation, was it sort of I think there was a plan initially, is it revisiting the plan that existed sort of at the start of the process? Is it overhauling it? Is it building it from the ground up again? Or is it, where do you sort of fall in that? I think we need to acknowledge that COVID came in between, so obviously there was just tremendous disruption. We are in a position where we want to build on good work. We're not reinventing the wheel if it's the right approach. And so that's part of the work that's happening now is to really understand what needs to be strengthened and what needs to be refined. I think there are some areas where we do need to make updates to our guidance because it's not consistent with certain best practices. So for example, with our, I think our multi tier system support guidance benefit from some updates. And so those are things that our team has identified. We've And been clear in saying, through our reorganization, there's some work that may need to be paused because we have to reevaluate it. There's some guidance that we actually are going to re release because we know that that needs to be updated. So that you'll expect that, but we'll be really clear as we're rolling out our support functions, what is really strengthening, what we had intended, but maybe was disrupted due to COVID versus what might be refined to be more aligned with current best practices.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Could you talk a little bit about district quality standards and kind of where they stand from a training and implementation and monitoring point of view?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: This is an example of how we're working to be aligned with our overall accountability framework. So both district quality standards and education quality standards are going into effect at the same time. And it's important for us to ensure that we are supporting that in a coherent and unified way so that we are not creating duplicative work in the field and it's not onerous. So the way we've approached that is we have beta project in place where we've identified the high leverage education quality standards and the high leverage district quality standards. You'll probably ask me how were they identified. Yeah, and they were identified in consultation with the field and also recognizing that some of the education district quality standards might change because of new law or new requirements through Act 73. And so, we're doing a beta test right now. We have developed the self assessment rubrics. Districts have completed those rubrics, and now we're combining those to reflect out. This is a learning year. It is a baseline year, and it's intended to be that so that we can identify where we need to improve and strengthen. And so you won't expect, we do have a proficiency scale with four being the highest year. We're not expecting that we'll be at a four, right? We're expecting that these will be really clear eyed and honest evaluations. But I'd be happy to schedule some time and have our team come in and talk more specifically around how the rubrics were developed and the data that we're seeing. But right now, they're compiling it. I think we have some stragglers, and we were working through the holidays, and now we're at a good place to be able to consolidate all that information.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And I guess one of the other things that I'm curious about is after sort of the failed attempt with e finance to put everybody on the same financial software,

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: kind of when do we gear up and give that another shot or aren't we? So you can always learn through things that go as planned, right? And that's the

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: approach I would say, we criticize it, but I think in the world of always trying to guess what the best software is, you're gonna miss sometimes.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: So we did provide a report with recommendations on what to consider when moving forward with the statewide financial system and student information system. And a big part of that was to really learn from the lessons passed. So one thing that we identified and heard clearly from the field is that prior efforts to do a request for proposal tended to prioritize the needs of the state and not necessarily the needs of the district. And so a big takeaway from the planning we've done in the field is to make sure that we're very clear on the, I would call the user requirements at both the district and the state level as we're putting together that request for proposal to ensure that this elected system truly meets the needs. The other items we identified is the integration component. And so we don't want to be in a place where we have five or six separate systems that aren't talking to each other. So within the report, we have enumerated the ways in which we need to be thoughtful around the connection between finance and managing student records and IEPs and that needing to be part of the conversation, even if one system can't do it all, that there's clarity around the kind of those APIs or how the data would be flowing back and forth to support. So I guess the quick thing to answer your question is, we've studied the challenges of prior implementation, we've identified what needs to be focused on more as we move into this next phase. And it's something I've been really clear about with our entire team is that we need to involve educators across the state when we're recommending something that's gonna impact the way that they work. And so the steering committees do that, but the steering committees are really focused on strategic plan. So we have a few working groups that are in place and that have really come out of the retreat in November. And I would imagine that for the system adoption, we would really need to have a working group helping us to get through all that. It's a business management that's really, really involved and invested, which I know that they would be.

[Emily Long (Member)]: Can I just follow-up on that? Thank you for asking that question, because it's almost on the front of my mind after so many years of I waiting for guess I need a little clarity. Did you say you're going to try to find one system that will do both? Because I mean, the e Okay, finance talk to each other is different, right? But e finance is certainly one thing, and then the student part is a completely other thing. And last year when I asked this question, I asked questions about this, I think I was told maybe I'm wrong. My recollection could be wrong, but it seemed like I think it was still who told me that it was pretty much essentially everybody, or most everybody, was on PowerSchool, the system that we had.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Is that There are not that many vendors. When we're looking at a financial system, when we're looking at a student information system. So there are large numbers of our districts that are using the same, right? And so that's part of when we talk about these teams that are these additional staff members that will be in the field, it's really helping to be clear around what systems are you using? How are you using them? What modules? Because we might have more similarity in certain regions than we think. So we have done inventories. I don't have that in front of me today of which districts use which systems, both for finance and for student information. So we do have that. I mean,

[Emily Long (Member)]: the reason I ask is because for years I've been hearing that we can't companies apples to oranges to fruit fruits. I mean, we just need a system that everybody can be on so we can compare apples to apples.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: And system adoption is challenging, right? But it's not even possible. We need to have an approach to support that work. But yes, to your point, there are some providers that most of our districts are using. It would be about merging. And yet that didn't seem to

[Emily Long (Member)]: be meeting the needs, I guess, is what I'm saying, apples to apples. Even though everybody seemed to be on it, that's not what I'm really hearing, that everybody's able to compare apples to apples. All I'm saying is down the road, having the apples to apples is a huge goal because it will help our planning as well.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Absolutely. And that's what the field indicated as well, I mean, through the planning session and you see that in our report. Yes, everyone can name challenges with any system adoption, but there is agreement that it would really support our efforts. It would reduce duplication of data entry. It would streamline data certification, it would improve data quality. So I think there's really an appetite for it, it's just making sure that we're designing it the right way. And to your point, I mean, systems can be modified, right? And so it's being really clear about what needs to be standardized, where there's room for

[Emily Long (Member)]: customers. That's what I was trying to

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: get. So the additional positions, two of them are really focused more operationally, and that's getting in to that type of a work in the weeds of understanding, okay, what does it actually look like if we were to combine these systems? What are those considerations? So that's why those positions on the ground are really helpful to us.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Speaking of positions, you mentioned that the five that were in Act 73, will your budget reflect converting those to permanent positions?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: So I never get ahead of the governor's budget. But I would say, we've all shared that these positions are really critical. And I think a reflection that we've had is that we know that these are roles that are important not just to support the requirements of Act 73, but to support continuous improvement. And it's the team that a lot of legislators have talked about the agency used to have that was more in the field before the Great Recession and there were some downsizing, and so this is an opportunity to build up that continuous improvement outward facing team to support quality. So, of course, budgets are always challenging and there's lots of priorities, But

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: we Is think it fair to say that trying to recruit high quality people for an eight month position has been challenging?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Yes. Are there folks who are in those five positions currently? They're still under active recruitment? They're under active recruitment. So I'll share a couple of reasons why. So once it was approved, one, it was for eight months, not twelve months. So that changed a little bit our recruiting timeline. But these positions were created. They actually had to be taken from the pool. So that takes a little bit of time. And just ensuring that the positions were at the right pay grade and level took some time too, because these are new roles. And it was important to really be clear about the level of autonomy authority, responsibility that the roles have. So it took a little bit of time and now we are in the recruitment phase. But it is, I mean, it has always been our intent that these would be permanent positions. We're not funded for that at this point. And so yes, it does create a challenge.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Have you been able to do whatever has to happen in the world of state government hiring that you've been able to set the salaries at levels where you feel you can compete with the public school sector and whatnot?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: So I wouldn't say that state salaries are competitive with district salaries, but where we've had the room and ability to repurpose some of these roles and think about the appropriate pay grade, we did that. But it wouldn't that be comparable to many district salaries.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: But at least you're making them more attractive than perhaps they might have been previously.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Wouldn't one work for the agency of education? Or else do you have this level of opportunity to make a positive impact statewide on students? So we are really getting a great pool of applicants for the positions that we've been recruiting for. So, that's really wonderful to see. And it's a real opportunity to make a lasting impact statewide and to be really engaged. Representative Harple. For those who are listening, we

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: have something. You're enough with the free advertising room. I mean, guess sort of my question already got answered, but I'm not even entirely sure how to word it. It really comes down to like, you know, how much is this going to cost versus like a time when we're actually currently cutting positions at our district level and people are losing their jobs and we're saying, can't budget for this, but we're adding five new positions up here at the top. There going be a time when we can show that this helps save our education budget a little bit by, I don't know, expediting processes, making them easier versus actually adding money to a budget where we're telling other people way below we can't afford to anymore. So I don't know how to word that.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I think you worded it just And I'm just going to point out something very technical and that is that just FYI, the agency's funding is general fund dollars and districts are ed fund dollars. But the question is still appropriate. What's the return on investment to districts with the new positions?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: So we are being very intentional about evaluating that return on investment in everything that we're doing. And this, I think we've heard really consistently, and also from legislators that there's a need for additional support from the agency. So I think that's been a really consistent thing that I've heard. And certainly, when you look at state government, it's around also prioritizing where the needs are. So it's a bit of a different conversation in terms of the comparison. But you're right that we are public servants, right? And we are funded to deliver on the support to the field. And what we have seen really consistently is districts historically have been really burdened to have to kind of recreate the wheel every time. And in some cases, almost acting as their own agencies. And so part of the work that we are doing is to say, that's what we've been asked to do on certain things. Talk about unity and freedom a lot. And Vermont, on the areas where we have unity, why would we have each district recreating that one the agency can support? So I think it's a good question, and it's certainly on the top of our mind. We want to add value. That is the work that we are here to do, and there are clear ways that we can measure that. We're looking to accelerate reporting, for example, to ensure that data are available to inform decision making in the time that those decisions need to be made. We're working on broader model policies to provide clarity on areas that are really critical to promoting safe and healthy schools as an example.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: I always assume that when the AOE is providing professional development, especially in the areas of tier one support and TSS, districts aren't having to do that.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: So we have consistently been asked to take on more. Right? And so what we've done with our reorganization, is to be intentional around ensuring that, have the right expertise at the right level, of our organization, and that we're aligning our day to day work and the work of our team to deliver on those priorities.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: And

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: that's been the hard work. We had to take a hard look at that and say, we need to reevaluate. And what you're seeing is a very different structure, which I think is making us more responsive to the field, stronger agency and more agile to be able to deliver on those expectations with working within the budget that we have and the staff that we have. I

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: do have a couple more questions, but I don't want to be respectful of your time. Do we have time for just a couple more? Yes. Okay. One would be, these are very quick.

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: What

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: is left of the Department of Education and how goes your ability to sort of get what you need out of the federal government?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Yeah, I mean, it's been The Department of Education is not what it was before, right? And there's also been shifts where the remaining employees have moved to other agencies. And so part of that is we're kind of still learning what the overall impact will be. And also ensuring when you talk about some of the contracted support in some areas, we've prioritized that to make sure that we're getting the right support and guidance, if we're concerned that we may not get that from the federal, for example, special education. So we are, I would say that I would have our program leads in to give you a direct answer, but I think exactly what we shared last year, it definitely feels different than yours trust.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Is it chaos though, or is everybody's, or is the it dust settling so you actually know where you need to go or what it is?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: The funding came through in ways we expected, so that was the concern that we had. So, I mean, I think from that level, that is reassuring. So And some of the disruption that we were experiencing last year is not the same as this year. So that's a positive development. There are some shifts in terms of oversight and access to data systems and things like that, that we're working through, but I'd like for our program team to really talk to you about what that actually looks like, but our response to that has been that we need to, within kind of this uncertainty and changes, that we need to be really tight as an organization about being clear on our federal, state compliance requirements, and ensuring that we're really focused on that. And if we do have questions and we're not getting the immediate response, that needs to be flagged up to me to make sure that we can provide that level of guidance to our team.

[Emily Long (Member)]: Can I just, this one, one second, you do come back, we talk about business more? You talked about how some functions have moved from the Department of Ed to Department of Labor. Oh, is it Department of Labor? Is that the only other one? If you No. The Human Services or

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: I'll share the memo with you, but there are interagency agreements that have been established, I can't remember four or six, depending

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: on the Okay, great, that would be great to see that, thanks. My final question, much more on the ground, how goes work on a uniformed school calendar?

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: Uniformed school calendar. I'll get back to you. I have a plan. I have a plan. We do have a plan for the calendar, but we haven't initiated work in the field yet.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: Thank you for your time on that and for your time today. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thanks

[Zoie Saunders (Secretary of Education)]: for having me. Thank you.

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: All right, everybody. So that's what we have for today. As always, keep an eye on the agenda as it may not rapidly change.

[Leanne Harple (Member)]: Just

[Peter Conlon (Chair)]: remind us all that before we get the lots of chatter that we