Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: You're live. Okay, great. Thank you. This is Senate and House Institutions and Corrections, and it's a committee of conference, on the capital bill. And I'd like us first to introduce ourselves. So, I'm Heidi Harrison, chair of our committee, and, I represent the Windham District. Did you want to go to

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: I'm Alice M. Emmons, state representative from Springfield and chair of the House corrections and institutions.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: And Rob Pluneau, senator of Bennington District vice chair of senate institutions. John Vincent, the Orange District.

[Representative Mary A. Morrissey (Member; Bennington)]: Mary Morrissey, Bennington.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: And Brian Minier out of South Burlington. Great,

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: so we actually have a good geographical area, that's true. Okay, so we need to look at significant issues. We need to look at items that are low hanging fruit would be helpful. I can go through this pretty quickly, first let's set schedules for the next week. We want to meet later today at two. We have that as our

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: We've got some I we can meet later today, but we have some important issues on the floor coming up. I don't know how they got they got some important amendments coming up on a couple bills. I'm just not sure if those bills are gonna be coming up. Okay. Because our caucuses are at current, so I don't know what's happening. I I can meet anytime. I think two o'clock's a little tight, but I can meet we can meet anytime this afternoon, but I really need to get a feel of what's my health plan before because we got couple of three feelings. It was real serious and I Okay. Need to be there. So if you can start Well

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: If we could start. But I'd like to have a couple of future dates in in Yeah. In in the queue. So, next Wednesday, the twentieth, 9AM. You can't do Tuesday? Oh, I'm sorry. I don't I don't think that What's your floor schedules in the morning? Ten. We started. Yeah.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: We started ten. How about committing committees? Are your committees tied up in the morning?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: No. We're finished with morning committees.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: So Tuesday, you have full days on the floor or could you do Tuesday afternoon?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: We could possibly do Tuesday afternoon. Actually, have something, so you can't do nine 09:00? Tuesday? Yes. No. On Wednesday.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: No. I'm talking let's do Tuesday afternoon before the Wednesday. Because I because we we will have time on Tuesday afternoon. What what time would you have time?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: One 01:00?

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: I would say space. One's like. Half o'clock on Tuesday.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: Forty minute Kia, otherwise. Okay. So let's

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: let's have that as a possibility. And

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: then Well, we could also meet later on on Tuesday because we'll be exchanging packages.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Possibly, but there's something that I need to do on Tuesday afternoon. What time is that? That's from it's actually from one to three, so I would miss some of it. I, so I could do after, it's one to three. So I could do 03:30. Sure. On Tuesday?

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Are we still doing one?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: I'm gonna put all of them now.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Okay.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: So that then we can

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Okay.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: That's why I wanna have the list. Okay. So Tuesday at once and then 03:30 and then post. I want You probably don't have evening plans. We do on Tuesday. Oh. Yeah. Some of us just seems Okay. So then Wednesday, would 9AM necessary? Okay.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Alright. Good.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: So we have we have the new spreadsheets. Well, we have our old spreadsheets.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: I got version number seven. Seven. So Mary's red line.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Direct version.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Yeah. Doesn't let You got a new one?

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Do have walk us through your changes on the spreadsheet?

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: Yes. For the record, Scott Moore joined this a lot was to make life as easy as possible, I created a new spreadsheet version. This version is hopefully a little less focal to make it easier to see what's happening. So essentially what this shows again, the red is the house. I removed any highlights of changes that the house made to the correct. The green is the senate. Any changes the senate made to the House is highlighted in green, and the last column to the right is what the conference committee would come up with. Hopefully this makes it a little easier to see so you don't have multiple colors. And with that, I'll sit back on it.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Great. Thank you. Go ahead. So I'm probably still gonna use my So free. But I

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: wanted you to see this. And then as the conference committee makes changes, will update that last poem, the next round of drafts. Okay.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Okay. So just wanna have multiple ways of looking at this. Fair amount of our changes were in response to the letter from the administration and their concerns. And you'll see that we came in a couple of cases we got there, but we didn't get there completely. And some circumstances changed between your committees work and our committees work. All right, first one I have highlighted is three acre. Well, major maintenance, as you all know, is kind of a result rather than a determination. So that was changed because lots of other changes that happened. Three acre rule on line four, there goes store mark, everybody's favorite rule. That is one of the items that is in the letter, and we got it closer to what they wanted. It was reduced by 1.5 and the administration wanted it to get to, what was their, was their, point six total for the two years and we ended up getting to 2.1 and that was to provide them obviously some of the funding and what we heard was that there are sites that they are working actively on now. We also heard that the state complex is not one of the sites that they're working on now because it's not ready to be worked on now. So we felt comfortable at that spot.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: So did they say that they had more sites that had gotten their permits than when they testified before?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: No, they still need their permits. Honestly, don't know. I shouldn't just say that. I should I'll wait till they're back.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Did they have the case which office had the permits and how much money they have for that?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Those are really great questions. And so somebody needs to take notes of these questions. Are you not able to do that?

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: I'm happy to take

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: notes from your supervisor. Yes. Just because I wanna make sure we don't leave question out. So, it's the permits and the particular sites. We did talk

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: about this extensively, so happy to do that.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Okay, next one. Next one I have bolded is the state house project. The steam lines, you changed and we left your changes. We agreed to that. From the what? The steam lines, because that is a, that was a change from the governor's rec. The number 11. Oh, the HVAC 120? Yes. Not that one. So, going on the one I had. Just wanted to mention that. So, we're good with that change.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Okay.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: So the state house entryway and documents, that's it. You, actually the governor had nothing. The house had 1,300,000 and we added 25,000 to that amount. And the reason for that was that in discussion of that project, we realized, not realized, but they told us that there had been some preliminary discussion of safety on the 2nd Floor and that they had decided not to have those conversations, not to get information from the architect. So we had the architect in and the architect told us that that work was not done and I personally feel very strongly about safety and this is a safety issue and so the 25,000 is to look at ways to provide additional safety on the side of board because there's nothing. And some of this conversation we actually might have offline also just to let you know.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: So who do you refer to

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: today? VGS Or or no. It was it's Who's the The the, committee, I believe. And we can find that out if You that's

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: don't know which

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Well, there's actually two committees that that work on the state house, and you're on, I think, both of them possibly, right?

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: The only one that I'm not on, but would weigh in on, would be the joint legislative management committee for when they're talking about the state council.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Yes, I'll find out which committee.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: And the other one is, kind of the other one is the state house advisory committee. It hasn't been provided through its motion.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: And I think that's the committee that should be making these decisions, but that's another, that's a conversation at the end. Scott, did you get that one?

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: Who's the day manager?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Yeah. That might be a recurring question. Right. And then, so that's section two and as I noted previously, the change in major maintenance is a result of other changes. Okay? So, now, section three, statewide door controls. Oh no, I'm sorry, let me go first to the Newport because of the change that we made was to move on to dollars. Hold on. Now this is where I need the new spreadsheets. Where it looks like in my notes that we had, you know, oh right, right, right. So Newport, this is, this doesn't impact the project except it provides a different funding mechanism. So we shifted it to cash. We'll fund

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: the dollars to get. Correct. Correct.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: And to the extent that we could have a policy conversation as part of this process, I would love to talk about cash versus bonded and how that's actually working versus the intent of it. But that's the future conversation. So, door controls. Door controls, the administration, 700,000. House took it down to 700,000. I'm glad that we're having this process because we only heard from you through other folks. So I look forward to having this conversation. We brought it back to the 2.7 again for safety. We saw that as a safety issue.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: So, did they say that they had permits for all of their facilities to do this?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Don't know that we asked that. We can look into that.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Were they ready to go with all the facilities? We had

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: the impression that they were ready to go.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Did you hear testimony from them that they were ready to go with all the facilities in the time back for that? We can

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: find out. We heard enough testimony to come to that conclusion.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: So,

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: WiFi installations. We're gonna, we do need to talk about this one. This one has lots of complexity and it would be helpful to hear from you all. I understand that the House Committee is concerned about not having Wi Fi in the corrections facilities. This committee is also very concerned about not having WiFi both by the inmates and the staff. It's critical. We heard that they were not, that the DGS or DOC either, because obviously they're working together, were not prepared. We stressed to them multiple times how important this is and the 250,000 where we landed is their estimate of what they could reasonably use to go forward in this process. So, we'll dive on the space Yes, about I'm sure.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: So,

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: so this line 32, this one, I'm gonna find the official version. It's, what we did was, we're also very concerned as your committee is, that the conditions in the women's facility are horrendous and there is potential. I I don't want to write it off yet. Some are writing it off of another facility. But in the meantime, we we can't just do nothing. And so we spoke, we heard testimony from BGS about what their priorities would be in terms of making the facility more livable. And so bathrooms were first place to start. And so we put in funding for that in finding a source of the funding for that. There are, this is in your halls, but normally, reversions. Reallocations. Reallocations. Right, reversions are

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: action. So

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: there is funding that there are funds that already, that have been appropriated that have not been used that if next year would be their deadline year for for going into to the, reversions. And so we use we we did the reversion.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: So is that the 598,000?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: That was 800 and something thousand. It was 868,850.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: But here here you've got for this particular project in a women's facility. On bonded, you've got 598,008 150 stores that coming from the old bonded dollars that could be out for reallocations next year.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: I believe it's bonded dollars, but it's it's not only that.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Well, I'm just I'm just starting to draft the column. It says bonded dollars for 591,350. So my understanding that that one is all about the dollars that would be up for the allocations on next session.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Looking at is that a 39? That's correct. That's correct. Yes. Conor, obviously, less than And

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: then you have a half million people also added Right. To cash. Right.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: And that comes in that comes to to be more than a million dollars. So

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: you basically cut our 1,250,000 by about 700,000 protection.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Definitely 1.098 is less than 1.25. So this will be something for us to discuss for sure. And then Recovery House, that is, you might be familiar with them. They were funded in a capital bill in 2023, I believe. And this is for work on their renovations on their buildings. And we did hear good testimony on what they do and what they're doing statewide, which is helpful. So we can get them in again when we talk more about that.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: Okay,

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: historic preservation.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: The two of these grant programs that are managed by the state historic preservation division, those were increased from 300,000 to 400,000 each and the reason behind that and you may recall that I've advocated for this in previous years. Those are, that's money that goes directly to Vermonters. It preserves obviously barns and the barn program, other buildings, actually Bennington has benefited from this. Chittenden obviously has benefited from Chittenden County.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: I'm sorry?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: For many years. Right. No, it's a great program. And what I found out when I was looking at more details is the average grants are 16,000 and 17,000 in the

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: two

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: programs. So it goes to a lot of individuals And just our landscape and our historic buildings and our historic barns, they're precious to Vermonters as well as folks who come visit. And they're authentic. They're not Disney bars, they're real bars. That's, it's just so, so important to our economy and the bang for the buck is there, that $16,000 and $17,000 averages. And so $100,000 in our budget is not very much but it will significantly increase number folks of who use them and there is more the applications exceeds what they're able to fund by law And I can get you those numbers too. And we can talk about how those programs are different from the other programs. So, section five, the veterans home, I have that out, highlighted just because when I was describing this to the Senate, I just, I always want to give a shout out because those folks are just doing so well and being really picky about state money and they're balancing state money and services to the people who live there really, really well. I just Okay, continue to be so going down, the last one I have on this page is 63, 83 A. It's ANR technical support to municipalities and design and implement stormwater utilities. So, you'll see other language, not on the spreadsheet, about stormwater utilities and it's one of the items that we fund in the clean water area, the $10,000,000 that we have, goes to those uses. And so, just a little bit about stormwater utilities. I can talk about this for a few seconds. Pounds, sometimes have stormwater utilities. The ones who have stormwater utilities already have them because they were out of compliance with EPA and the state received money from the EPA to initiate those stormwater utilities and a stormwater utility is a way to have revenue in a fair way so that everyone who generates storm water pays. So folks who don't pay taxes, property taxes still pay if their property generates storm water off of the property. And so storm water, the cost of storm water it varies and it's by town and it can be half of the public works budget if you look at it because it's grading, it's ditching, it's culverts, so it has both operating and capital, because you have capital with the culverts and structures and if you have wastewater, sometimes it goes into the wastewater system, but it's very much related to the three acre rule. Storm water utilities are a way to finance your methods of complying with the three acre goal. And so the state is looking at regional stormwater utilities to as a revenue source or three acre current three acre rule because three acre rule is a bad name on my team. It's just that three acre, that's the name that they use because that's the threshold where you have to have certain storm water utility or storm water management. We'll let Senator Bennington at some point talk more about this because he's an engineer and has been working on that for years. So, I believe and the committee was supportive that pounds needs revenue to manage storm water. Towns are subject to the three acre rule. This and the challenge in creating a storm water utility is in the beginning of the utility. That's where it gets complicated. And I'm not saying all towns would want this, but there's probably 15 to 20 towns that would be appropriate to this. And it's not fair that they don't have the benefits that the towns who already have the utilities had. And so this is funding for ANR to help and it's not going to go very far but it would help these towns establish the utilities. There are some other things that ANR is supposed to be doing in an existing bill which is a sample ordinance and some sample guidance because as I said, the challenge is in establishing the utilities because you have to find a way to identify the partials because the way that, the reason it's beneficial, it's fair, I'd say fair, is that you are charged by the amount of runoff that comes off of the property. So, to keep it not too complicated, you generally have all of the single family homes of a certain, up to an acre or something have the same amount. But then when you have larger properties, like big commercial properties that have massive pavement for big parking lots that are only used once a year now. They would get a discount if they remove some of that asphalt and remove which would reduce the amount of storm water that they generate on other properties. So, that's I can stop there.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Yeah, I'd like to know what the 100,000 would be actually used for. You said it would help towns to Yes, yes. The dollars be used for

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: That would be, well, I would like to talk to A and R more about that because I'm looking at this in other areas too, but but it needs to relate to the establishment of the of the utility.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: What kind of false soils then we petition be covered under that? Sure. Every thousand. It's not. Right. Right. I

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: I can tell you it's the, engineering can be 50,000, somewhere $4,050,000 but we'll talk to them about it's it's not it's not very much. This wouldn't help that many towns. But you could also look at something that would help all towns, is like the guidance that I was talking about, which maybe they're already doing. Oh, they're already doing.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: In your own language. Right? Yes, we should. Yes. Yes. So we can go with that. Yep. K. Okay. For some funny changes. So

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: so there is okay. So there are a couple of not mind change. Oh, because we did a yeah. We didn't do a stripe up.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Right. So

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: Yeah.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Running the language changes, you're more close to the back?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Yes. You're looking at my notes. Yeah. Yeah, so my page oh, you're looking at that page? I have what was that?

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: It's the fourth to the last page. And what section?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: It's the section nine. So, infrastructure subaccount. Oh, So, actually, this is the list of all the cash changes. Okay. Is such is the seventh instance of amendment is section nine. That is

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: the cash appropriations. So we'll compare that with our version to shape down and see switches there where some of it has been bonded on our side and Exact.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: Senator Harrison, the other policy changes, don't forget there's the little bit of release.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Right. That's what I'm getting. That's the eighth amendment.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: It's on page four, two.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Yes.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: Sorry.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Which which one do you have? I have your address. Okay. It's the 100. So it's the ninth. It's the eighth. I have changes. I'm trying to pricing Right. Negotiate. Right.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: And the reason and now we're gonna go to your bill where your bill is Yep.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: And the

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: reason for that, well, of all, it sounds like just a wonderful project, terrific project. Yeah, it's like May '18. The Good Owl House. Yeah, so we looked at this. Vermont Huts folks, they have received like $3,800,000 funding from the federal government, which is great. There's and so they would use that to, at least renovate the old house, and, which is at Little River State Park. The concern is that this language has, it explains the types of information or subjects that need to be in the lease but there aren't any boundaries and it just looked like a blank check-in a way. What do you mean by that? Well, like the fee, the fee to compensate the state fee or fee formula. You know, this is public property and leases are, we're allowing them to get revenue from this property which is fine, makes sense especially because they're providing the funding to, you know, restore the property. So I was just looking at

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: the language, provide that at least specifies the fee or fee form. Great. So what's the issue?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: The issue is that the legislature should have some sort of limit on that or guidance on that. And there might, I mean, fee is the obvious one to me, but could be other items. So, this, this one, we didn't have time to, work on any suggested, language because, well, it's just time obviously, but, but we didn't want to do language for maybe just one section because there might be other sections that we need to talk about. Like provisions for termination of lease, I mean that's another example of just something that's a category that should be in the lease but it's not a lease. I believe that the legislature should be More involved? Yes, yes. Not in everything, but yes, than is shown here. Okay. And then the repeal of the authority to sell 110 State Street. So that was something that we authorized four years ago maybe. I think it was my first year and it's, so just everybody, I'm sure it's people now. Here. It's where the state attorneys are, the Association of State Attorneys and Sheriffs is right now, it's on the corner, it's a beautiful historic building, it's a focal point. As you come into the Capitol Complex, it anchors that corner of the Capitol Complex And it concerns me to just have it in a state where it could be sold without our knowledge. And that, and I had those concerns eventually when we did it, I expressed those concerns. At that time, I had thought that, or we talked and there was a possibility that the city of Montpelier might be interested. That was before floods. So, it's a different situation now. So, I thought that it would be better to rescind that authority. It doesn't mean that we can't give back that authority at another time but especially when the state is looking for property and the state is entering into leases for employees. So, it seems prudent to keep what we have that is obviously very close to the center.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Is that building with that building be discussed as part of the, with FEMA?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Yes, it is, it is. And the administration does have concerns about this proposal. Oh,

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: and we're back at stormwater utilities. So,

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: this language that there's no funding in this. So the state is look. I started to talk about that. The state is looking at regional Storm Guard utilities. There's a working group. I'm going to their meetings and what has been my concern, and actually it says it in their documents. My concern is that regional utilities would almost certainly preclude individual storm water utilities. And so I don't want town to not be able to do stormwater utilities because the state has preempted that with a regional stormwater utility. And there are other ways that the state could get pretty much the same revenue. There are water management districts, that's a way that they could get revenue. It doesn't need to be a utility and a utility doesn't make functional sense when you look at a region. So that's the short version. So there's two parts of it. Wait. So you're con Oh, I'm looking at the wrong

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Yeah. So your concern is if there is a development of a regional stormwater utility or pre empting municipal storm water utility form?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Mostly yes, but the way the language is written is that the state couldn't do a regional utility that does preempt. If the state can find a way to do a regional utility that doesn't preempt towns, fine, great. But so far it looks pretty unlikely. So that's just that's to protect towns.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Yes. Okay. So much time. Are there

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: I think

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: that's all.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: I think that's it.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: I think that's it. Okay. What we'll do on our end here, the three of us will go over these explanations and your amendments.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: And we'll have more information.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Great. And we'll present a package the next time we'll meet.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Okay.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Need time for us to put together a package. I don't know what's happening. Just I know we got some confidential bills. I don't know. Let us see what's happening on the floor. Are you you're done for the day?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Yes. I mean, we we'll all be working hard, but we don't have official meetings.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Let me let's find out what's going on. Yes. And we got some kind two controversial bills. Okay. Controversial amounts.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: I don't know.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: They may put those off, and they may decide to take them off. We're gonna need time to put together go through this. Package. I hate not to meet late on today, but I'm not gonna know that for at least fifteen, twenty minutes.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: Call let me know in fifteen minutes, but I I would prefer to not go later than three.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Okay. Yes. Yeah. On trips. So it was too long. Long days to Correct.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: I can make arrangements to do it much later.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: But So you won't be able to meet later than three? We want us to end at three as well. You want

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: us to end at three?

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: I I could make arrangements to to meet later at three. Okay. If needed, I just need to know.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Let yeah. Let me let me let us get back up there and see what's gonna come up the Floor, and we're gonna need time to put together a package. If we don't meet again this afternoon, we're gonna meet Tuesday.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: That's what I wrote somewhere. Right?

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: Is that what

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: you said? Yeah. Yeah. Tuesday in the in the afternoon.

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: Because we got some important stuff. It's

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions; Windham District)]: gonna take a lot

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: of roll calls This one I'm afraid of too. Right. No.

[Scott Moore (Legislative staff/analyst)]: So let me let me check-in, see what's going on, and then We'll do you today or

[Representative Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections and Institutions; Springfield)]: One two two. Okay. Great.