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[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Good morning.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Hi, Laura. Welcome, folks. This is House Corrections and Institutions. It is Friday, May 15. And we have here with us, Laura Fritzman, of the State of Missouri Preservation. We're working on House Resolutions HR 18 that is trying to help, let me put it that way, help the town of Johnson in its efforts to preserve the Julian Scott birthplace and fire. It was a victim of the 'twenty three flood. There was a FEMA buyout. And the community really like to preserve this home in some way. They are going to be meeting Monday evening.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: Monday evening. So
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: The town of Johnson. And Laura, we wanted just to get a conversation with you in terms of what you know, what the thinking is, what contact you might have had, if any, with the town of Johnson, what you might understand with a FEMA buyout or any of that. So I'll turn it over to you if you could identify yourself for the record.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes. Good morning. I'm Laura Treishman. I'm the State Historic Preservation Officer. This buyout came to us with a number of other buyout requests from FEMA following the twenty three flooding. I think it arrived in our office in December '24. We reviewed it and we concurred with FEMA's finding that it was eligible for the National Register. And they moved forward with identifying mitigation for the buyout.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Is eligible for the national registry?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: That was FEMA's initial determination and we did not dispute that. I think now that we have been inside the building and we're not processing two thirty FEMA buyouts all at once. We've had the opportunity to talk with FEMA and it likely would not be eligible for the National Register individually because of its significant alterations.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: So
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: is that why FEMA in the buyout included money for this particular project, this particular building, home?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Because they determined that it was eligible and we concurred with that. Yes. If it was determined not eligible, there would be no funding from FEMA. There would be no
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: buyout. So it is eligible. This is confusing to me. I'm trying to get this. So it is eligible for the buyout because they feel it's eligible for the national registry.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: It was, when we knew what we knew about its condition and its alterations, we all determined it was eligible. And at that time we even knew that it was the Julian Scott house.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And how long ago was?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: It was December '24 and we signed off in January '25. And then the town at the request of the historical society asked us to come and do site visits. So we went inside the building, which is not something we normally do for buyouts. We did that in March '26.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So is that when it was determined it would not be eligible for the National Registry?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: It was felt, not officially changed because if we changed the determination of eligibility, it would not be eligible for the bio.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So FEMA is still considering it as part of the Nash on the National Registry.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Eligible for?
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Eligible for. And FEMA's already committed to the buyout for this particular project or building? I
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: have talked to FEMA and they have already given the money to the town for the buyout.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And And do you
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: know we've already identified mitigation. So if it were not eligible, there'd be a different buyout path.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And because
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: it's eligible, we will be mitigating that loss.
[Shawn Sweeney (Committee Clerk)]: Is that on the state registry?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes, it is. It was listed in the state register in 1990.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So hang on, Troy. How much is the buyout? Do you know?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: I don't know. We're not involved in that. I don't know the dollar amount.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Troy?
[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: I have a couple of questions. The first one was FEMA present when you made the determination that it was not likely to remain eligible for a national registry? Or is that just the state's determination?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: I have since had conversations about that and they agree that it likely is not eligible, but that is not something we wanna backtrack on.
[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Gotcha, thank you. And you indicated though that if it loses eligibility, there may still be other paths for the buyout. Can you talk a little bit more about what those other paths are?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes, whether it's eligible or not, it would be eligible for a buyout, it would just go a different path. For properties that are listed or eligible for the National Register, we then mitigate the loss because it's an adverse effect.
[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: What's entailed with that mitigation?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: We're actually working with FEMA and Vermont Emergency Management to do a larger mitigation project for all of the buyouts from '23 and '24, so that it ends up being a rather than an individual take photographs today and then destroy it, that we're doing a lot more proactive documentation for all of the resources in these historic districts and towns.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Laura, you've seen the resolution or no?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: So if we were to agree to this resolution, does it make your department responsible for anything monetarily or is it just saying that we support the town of Johnson doing this? Does that make sense?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes, it is just a support. It doesn't put us in a monetary position. It wouldn't change the mitigation from our perspective. What would need to happen to change anything for the path that it's on now is for the town to say to Vermont Emergency Management, we don't wanna do the buyout. We wanna move the building or we wanna elevate it or do something else. So Vermont Emergency Management would then go to FEMA and renegotiate the application. And the town would have to give back the money and get money later in a different way. And then they would come to us to check to make sure we were okay with what was going to happen.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you got a lot of ducks to get in a row.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yeah. Yeah.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So if they did take that route, which is what I think the town may wanna take that route, the initial they would have to pay back the buyout that they got for that property. Then it would go through. FEMA would then put it through a different route for a buyout. And that buyout amount could be less than what they received right now.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: It wouldn't be a buyout, it would be another flood adaptation. Okay.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But it would be a lesser amount than what they have to pay back?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: I don't know that. If they're gonna move it, they might get more money because that tends to be a little more expensive. I don't know. They would have to negotiate with Vermont Emergency Management and FEMA.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So the town needs to initiate this? Yes. They need to connect with emergency management, and emergency management will then connect with FEMA. Our FEMA would that be do they go also through Doug Farnham? And that part of
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: He would be looped in and aware of everything, but it would go to region one of FEMA.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And it would be our state emergency management that would be representing Johnson in this?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes. And Johnson would have to put in a new application to elevate or move the building.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Dan, could you identify yourself? Hi. Thank you so
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: much for being here. Dan Noyes, representative from Wolfrey to represent Johnson. What is the timeframe for this? How long does a typical buyout or to go back and forth with FEMA to renegotiate? Do you have any idea on how long that might take?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Well, we always have thirty days. That is also a declared emergency. So we would have ten days to be reviewing. I don't know if the application was complete, FEMA, I think has forty five days to review and process, but that's if they're all there working.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: Good point.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So it's the end of the year.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: They've been furloughed a lot, but they are back now. There are set process timelines for how long we're supposed to be looking at things.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: I'm just thinking of the ninety days that we have right now. Is that sufficient?
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Ninety days for Johnson to
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: act? Correct.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: If you went to Vermont Emergency Management and said, we want to do a new application during your ninety days, that would start a new clock is my understanding.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: The time that you reach out to emergency management starts the new clock.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes, because they have to inform FEMA then and get a new application in. But I do not believe that the ninety days would continue. You would notify Vermont Emergency Management and FEMA that you're taking another path, wanna do a new application.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: And just back to the buyout question in terms of funding, have you seen properties that are historically significant receive more money than just buying the property out for its market value? Has there been historical that there is more money available through that path versus just buying it out and getting rid of it?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: We're not involved in the money, so I don't know, but that does not sound like something. I've never heard of anything like that.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: I was just wondering if there's other historic properties that have gone through this FEMA buyout process and what was the outcome there?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Like I said, we've processed about two thirty of them since July 2023. And they either move forward with a buyout and are demolished and then nothing can ever be built on that property or they say, no, thank you. We've changed our mind and nothing happens.
[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: So
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: right now, there's gonna be a meeting in Johnson. On the ninth. So it's really up to the town right now to take the next steps. I just don't know where the resolution that's before us falls into that.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Because I would say that we're here to help and do everything we can. If Johnson wants to save the house, I would explain what part of the building should be saved that more is associated with Julie and Scott versus the whole thing, you know, and guide you and help you in making sure that it's in a location that is not flooding and that it's put on the right foundation and the right work is done to it. So we're always here to help.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So who would own this house? Would it be the town of Johnson or is it going to be a state owned historical site? Oh, no, no, no. That's I asked.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: That's why I was trying to get at with my original.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: No. Right now it belongs to the town, is my understanding as part of the buyout process. The town could keep it, they could sell it, they could do whatever they wanted with it.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Would our roadside marker be moved wherever they move it? Because we do have a roadside marker there that we understood.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Would be a conversation with the town, whether, you know, we wanted the marker to follow the building or we wanted to mark the spot.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because the state owns that marker. Correct. Yeah, we've taken those markers through the capital bill, in her division, we all.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: And that'd be, that's kind of
[Unidentified Committee Member]: an interesting question, right? Because, and it doesn't matter right now, it really does, but it's interesting to think about because it's marking where the place was versus the actual place, or is it marking the place even though it's been moved?
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's
[Unidentified Committee Member]: interesting. That's all
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I have to respond.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: Then to the question, if the townhome said, could they elevate it out of the flood? I'm not sure what the elevation change would need to be. It's pretty high up. I mean, with that area, it does flood.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, ahead, Laura.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: It needs to be base flood plus three. So it's gonna it's gonna be high and that's going to further compromise its integrity.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Base what and three feet? Yep.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: Too bad we just reduced the floodplain and right across the river from that is a floodplain remediation project. They hauled
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: away from that. So really, we don't know if this resolution helps or hinders or makes any difference. We don't know. But what I'm thinking is you're gonna be meeting with the town of Johnson Monday, right, Laura, or not?
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: No. No?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: This is the first I heard of a meeting.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: There's a- We typically don't advocate at the local level, right? We respect what the town wants, the historical societies want. We will respond to state and federal agencies and help.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So what decision the town really needs to make on Monday is whether or not to reach out to Vermont Emergency Management to say, we want a different track for the buyout. That's what they really And
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: that's where Stephanie Sweet, correct?
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's where who?
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: Stephanie Sweet, she worked for FEMA.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: She works for FEMA?
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: FEMA. Oh,
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Vermont Emergency Management.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: She's on the agenda for the select board meetings.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Do you
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: know Stephanie Sweeney? Is the Stephanie Smith. Stephanie Smith. And she is really excellent. And she will give great advice about the process and the funding and she's the person to be talking to.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: Okay. She's on the agenda, 07:00, Monday night.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you will know more Tuesday and you may not need this resolution. Correct. Okay. So let's circle back
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: I think that's fantastic.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: The representatives from Johnson District.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: I know you're in different towns. On Tuesday morning.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Come back and let us know. This really looks like it's a town decision that you can be the conduit, the go between for state entity with the town.
[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. Fantastic.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Does that make sense to put Laura, some of those from thank you so much for short notice on this. We got one more question, not on this. On our favorite Bennington Monument. So any further questions on the resolution or the issue with Johnson and FEMA and the buyer? Anything else from you, Dan or Richard?
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: No. No, we're good.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You. Circle back with us next Tuesday.
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: We're a
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: friendly group in here. Yeah, seems like
[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: all of
[Rep. Daniel "Dan" Noyes (Guest, Johnson area)]: the time. Right. Be careful.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Richard's high next door. He can hear us. So Laura, we've got just while we have you, we just want updates on the Bennington Monument. I know it was you had a public meeting in Bennington a few weeks ago. It's got a little rowdy. And Mary? I'm just wondering if there's any further analysis that's been done in regards to the project.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes, yes. So for the community conversations, we had one in person in Bennington, we had another one this week.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It was on Tuesday.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Virtually, we polled people and the options the only option anybody picked was full restoration.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's not a surprise. I think we've discussed that. But my question is what further actual analysis on the building has been done?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes, we have met with the engineers, actually, the day after I was in testifying with you, and I was telling them the questions and concerns that you all had, let's dry it out from the inside. They stressed to me that the exterior is the problem and they are writing up a summary report based on that. And they have even agreed to come in and speak to you, But I'm waiting to get that summary report.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And who is they?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: This is T. Y. Lynn. They're the engineers that worked on the study and they are now under contract with us for monitoring specifically the seismic, but also they are structural engineers.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So would they, if the committee is interested, I don't want to speak for the committee, would would the committee be interested in having them commence and talk about this? And would they be able to do it at some point next week? Is the committee interested? Oh, yeah. Okay.
[Shawn Sweeney (Committee Clerk)]: Love to.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Would they be able to do it? It could be done electronically. Would they be able to do it sometime next week? Because we're pushing to get out of here at the end next Friday.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: I can check. The head engineer has retired and now lives in Guilford. And then the others are, I think in Boston or New York, but we could do them virtually. Yes, yes, I can check.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Is he doing this? He's retired, but is he on the job or is it just the
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: work He's that retired and has been contracted back by the company and is working particularly on our project.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay. So is that continuity in terms of contracting out with him?
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Can you kind of reach out to them and connect with Tate and Tate connect with Laura and the The threesome, try to figure out a time frame for when they would be available. It'd be good to get some different days and different times because we just don't know how our schedule is gonna play out next week. Yes. Thank
[Shawn Sweeney (Committee Clerk)]: you, Laura.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Does that make sense for Thank you, Laura.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: You. Laura,
[Shawn Sweeney (Committee Clerk)]: Shawn. And and I'm gonna I'm working on my, you know, little presentation from my visit to the Washington Monument, and I'm gonna give it next week. So I'll let you know when I'm doing it. But it'll be available. Like, you can always watch it whenever. But, you know, I just wanted to give you the heads up on that.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes, please. I'd love to be there to see that.
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay. That would be great. So we can, again, take the connecting. Yes. Thank you so much, Laura, on such short notice.
[Laura V. Trieschmann, State Historic Preservation Officer (Vermont)]: Yes, thank
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We gave you a half hour early now to do something else. You. We'll be in So for the committee, the day, conference committee for the capital bills meeting at 12:30 down Senate Institutions Room. And what's gonna transpire is the Senate will present their changes to the capital bill to us
[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: for that. Who's on their committee? Who's on the Senate committee?
[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It is Senator Harrison, and then Benson? Yes. For that. And and, hopefully, we can finish up the capital bill next week, Wednesday or Thursday. It's the call. So anything else before we finish up and call it a week, at least, if it's for for the full committee. And next week, you know, there's not we're done pretty much our work except the little stuff maybe percolate up. Mhmm. And next week's gonna be a very different week. And so k. So let's go off to YouTube and be back