Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We are live. Welcome folks, this is House Corrections and Institutions Committee. It is March 31, Tuesday, March 31. We'll go through a few items here in our capital bill trying to figure out who's going for what section and how to report. We're not going to meet you too long today. I do also want to have conversation with folks just to pick the brains and to maybe what we should take up for testimony now that we have a little bit of a lull. I do have a quick meeting at one point. So, we'll see what we can do. I can go to my meeting and then maybe come back if another conversation with you folks. Don't know. In reporting the bill,

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Mary, do you just wanna report the whole bill? You do it, Shawn. I'll do part

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: of it.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Said I would do part of it.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You know what part you want? You want

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: a part of it? It's awful. I don't remember what sections that it was here. Think I did two and three, but I'm not sure.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's gonna be really hard in a way to explain this because what we're going to do, we'll have the spreadsheets out. You can see us going to do it. That bill will be there, but it's going to be really hard to follow before.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: It's useful. Because you

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: got bonded and cash or separate

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Until you into some of the water stuff possibly. And then you get into some of the allocation and then the cash section. And then there's a policy or it's an F. So what will happen, I will be the one that will give the introductory and I will lay out how the spreadsheet is organized and what the different colors mean, what the gray columns mean.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Will people get a copy of this, everybody? Yep. Got it. What

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: the gray column will mean, and I may not even put the blue.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: I've made people ask questions, they should ask.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, it's all covered in the gray column anyway. And where the pale yellow and the bright yellow, what those indicate. With the gray column total whips, what the right column means, and then with those highlights. Okay. So, I don't think it's going to take that many people to report the bill. If we look on the front page of the spreadsheet, there are quite a few items here that are moving. One person maybe could take care of the whole front sheet of a spreadsheet.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: So the two, three, and four. I'm happy to do that if unless somebody else has a dying desire to do so. No, go for it, Joe.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You want to do that, Joe?

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Sections two through four?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah, but there's going to be some discussion. There's going to have to be some background on some of this, not just talking about the money. It's going to need to be background. There's going to need to be background in terms of 120 State Street. Why would we cut that million?

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Yep, I can explain that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: There's going to need to be a background on

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Three acre maybe. Somebody might get weird about that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Major maintenance. What do we do? Maintenance. I'm gonna check that. Maybe we added that.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: But for the most part, if something was reduced, it's because the project wasn't moving forward or because there was a lot of money left over from previous

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's a little more complicated than that. 120 State Street is based upon millions of FEMA?

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Correct. So it's not moving forward? Well,

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it is moving forward.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: We don't know. But we don't know when. You don't know how either.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But there and there's also previous money that's been appropriated.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: But 120 states it's in correct me if I'm mistaken, but that will plausibly be part of a bigger HVAC project that encompasses more than one building.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: More rain for FEMA, and we've had money to ask for this. The door controls is connected to door control in St. Albans. No, St. Young. The spoiler is part of, there's more money that's been appropriated in the past, and this is connected to moving the ponds and the road. So, that's why we cut it by a million because of Edmunds money from the previous appropriations for that. I could get you those dollar amounts too. So that's to let people know there's already money in the pot. The same thing with the DCF Youth Stabilization Facility. Could give really talk a little bit about that, where we are. There's an RFP that's out. BGS is negotiating with the developers or design build. Wi Fi, and then the replacement things facilities. We've put in money, we wanna make sure this gets built. It's gonna be very expensive, so we're starting to put money aside for it. We need to get some of the background on some of these.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: We

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: give them some of the background so they're not so liable to ask questions when they see 2,000,000 cut by a million or another 2,000,000 cut by a million or 2.7 cut by 2,000,000, it's both gonna be flagged as questions. So then the next page. What if, though, you did section two and three, and then section four, five, and six. That's where your changes are. You would be willing to do four, five, and six. And then we can do A and R and water together.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: I'll do the. And then you'll do the last one. Alright.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Great. So Joe will do two and three. John, hopefully, will everyone. It'd be a lot of years.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Why not have geode four?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Four, five, and six.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Think it much matters who does four. Have a little change in road size marker. Right.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I'm just thinking I'll put slow because they don't want to do nine out of 10.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Okay so I'm doing four and five?

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Four, five and six.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Nine ten

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: as well.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: That means five has absolutely no changes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You don't even talk about For adhesion and newer and safe piles. It's hot or

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: all over seven eighty nine.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: I'm coming off the bench.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I don't have to do anything for military. I don't really know how to do anything unless somebody asks questions. And 13. Troy, you do either the allocations and stuff. Would you be willing to do thirteen, fourteen, and then the reallocations bonded in cash?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Remind me what thirteen and fourteen are.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 13 is public safety with the urban rescue facility. And then judiciary is the Essex County with their water system. Finishing up White River Junction Courthouse and the Newport Courthouse. Yeah,

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: happy to do that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Zeroed out the cash. We kept in the bond. Right? Yeah. And then, oh, and then we got the historical society, sixteenth. Climate control.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. Let's preserve the artifact, not the building.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Troy, that would be there.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Asked me about that. The member asked me about that.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: I saw what?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: About that item. The Climate Control Stuff and Society? Yes. What was it? Oh, because it came up in the appropriations bill.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: That's what he asked. Mike Hoyt, that's my wife. Was insane. I feel like that's a lot. Mike, thank you for asking about that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I can actually answer. Summarize some of

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: the questions. Interesting. Actually, before it was explained to us, I flagged it. The idiom said it. Nothing makes sense.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And what is in the pail is what the pale chart is what the illustration and what's in highlight yellow highlights what we put in.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: I took sections. If you want sections, you get on my sections.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Then

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Thanks.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: I want to be the section high.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What you could do, Will, is when you're talking about the drinking water revolving loan fund, you could go to the policy part of the bill, which is section ten and eleven.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Ten and eleven.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: So if

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: you could talk about that when you do your you got a big chunk, but it's all connected.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Sorry to finish what you said about drinking water. You said when I'm

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, when you do the drinking water revolving on, go to the policy section, page 14, section 10, and also section one, because that is the one which we are then for eligible mobile home park systems, which is really the manufacturer's home. And they're extending the loan payments length of time. I would like to get one

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: of those negative 3% bonds that they speak of. That they speak of. That are spoken of? Yes. They are spoken of.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I see what you're saying. So we have to I'm gonna have to work with you. Who's doing the fence? I don't don't if with you because we're moving money around here a lot and we're going to have to explain that.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: I'm happy to work with you on it. And then the overhaul, the deal

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So if folks can go to the bill

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: page.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's what I'm looking at. Section 19 is where we authorize the parents for these projects. And then, we've got to give a nod to section 19. And so the last person to speak to give a nod is section 19. Section nine, I'm sorry. It's section nine of the bill, page 10. That's where the cash fund starts. But somebody can give a nod to section nine. Will is doing ten and eleven. So then we pick up on section 12, which is page 17, which allows the storage reservation to allow for solicit grants. This

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: That's me.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yep. You could do that.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Well, it's in my section.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yep. You could do that. Yep. So you can mention that. Oh, you're not mentioning any particular

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: project.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Just the Bennington betterment. No,

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: no, so Mary A. Morrissey warning is me about. And furthermore, that's not how the authorization is worded anyway. It could be any state project. Right.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So then it would be Section nine, somebody we'd have to give a nod to.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Or if somebody wanted to donate to paint the Chester Arms Building.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And Section 13, which is the lease thing with the Forest and Platts of Vermont cuts. Section 14, which is the land transfer down at the Southern State Facility. And 15, which repeals previous language for them to do the transfer. Section 16, which is language that's also on the floats. Try to get DCF funding. And then section 17, Wi Fi installation. Maybe, Joe, you could refer to section 17 when you do your section three.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Yep. You can put section 17 in your Wi Fi.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Who wants to do cleanup on those last sections? The beginning of the report. To the end of the report. You have to give a nod to explain the cash fund section nine. This is the policy in the bill. And then section nine, section 12, it talks about not twelve, thirteen, which is the lease for some parks. Fourteen and fifteen is the transfer ramp at the Springfield Correctional Facility. And 16 is the high end system of facilities to produce which is going to be on hold until the DCF comes up with the money.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Who's doing seven, eight, and nine?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Seven, eight, and nine are the reallocations.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Right. But it's true. Troy. Oh, Troy is doing that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. He doesn't have to do it in the bill. He just does it on a spreadsheet.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Okay. To answer your question as far as that I know, credit back any up, type of courtesy, but if nobody volunteers, I'll do it.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: On, winner, step up.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: I'm happy not to report.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Mark, do you want to do it, James?

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I'll do it if neither of anybody else wants to. I would love to, but I never, I'm sure, would.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: I just wouldn't go over it, not today, when my head feels better. Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, you would be doing section nine,

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: and

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: that section if you want to give anything.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: Is there a muffin man section?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Oh gosh.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: The veteran's Home. Taken.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Is he traveling down a certain lane?

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: Don't want that lane.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: The muffin man wants the veteran's home, so he can be the muffin man for the sewers.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Do you

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: wanna talk to muffin man? You can't

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: if you want.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: I can consult on the muffin man.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: He's joking. Nothing consultant.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Why is this saying 14?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 1415 together. 16 and then So 10 was James. 16. And you give people maybe both. And that answer. What So who what were what were the last ones and who's doing it? Okay. James is doing section nine. Section

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. And then the county vote. Nine, no, ten-one-zero. It's ten-zero-one. I hope that's the right phone. That's

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: what everyone tells me.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: And we ask for your support.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: It's ten-zero-one. And then you say how you get it. Just gotta

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: get that in. Don't be messing with me. I already asked that question. Will be

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: the cheerleaders on the side. Perfect.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: What's the gate? Are they ready for you?

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: I

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: think it's gonna be Tuesday. Just talking to the chair of the and I go down to a probes on Thursday morning. So they voted out on Thursday, it's not voted Friday, it's up on Tuesday, which is fine. Friday, we're not gonna work in the afternoon. We're done at twelve. It's always been what I've done. Good Friday. It's a good Friday. Oh, yeah. I've always done that, So we always did in the past. The legislature would close down at 12:00, but they didn't do that. But I do that in

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: my career. When I was at Credit News, I closed the dealership for a couple hours, but then we reopened, not a good time to get your car worked on.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You reopen.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Too many jelly beans, Will? Before doing

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: that, Dave.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I just want let the committee know Friday afternoon. We're done on the floor. And there may be something happening here. And we'll work till twelve I also want to spend a little bit of time just kind of hearing from the committee. We're going to have some blow right now, some downtime for us to catch up on some of those things that we've talked about that need a little bit more work that we don't get to that possibly we could wait until one of our bills gets worked down a little bit in the Senate, we could ask them to put an amendment on. One thing that we did not do much work on due to timing was in the gender equity bill about medical care. We could schedule more testimony on that just to see if it gives us any further direction in terms of what we might be able to offer to Senate Institutions Committee to consider. I don't know if they're gonna work on the bill or not. Gina is standing there right now giving testimony. And I don't know if folks would be interested in trying to schedule a Vocab and DOC in for further conversations on this. So why don't we see what they're scheduling this week after? And I don't think we have much on the floor this week either, so we would probably, and the floor is meeting at 01:00 I think.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yes, yeah, tomorrow on my devotional prophecy. On

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: your birthday. When's your birthday? So we would have tomorrow afternoon probably around quarter after two. Eight month, quarter after two. And Thursday afternoon, two, quarter after two. And we'd have all this in the morning. Yep. We'd have Friday morning after the floor. So that would be one thing.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: So tomorrow morning, what time are we starting?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 08:30. Because we've got BGS coming in to talk about the cash reallocations because we didn't do much background.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Very well.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And we're trying to get, we're gonna be dealing pretty heavily with the forensic unit within a correctional facility. That's going to be a real heavy lift. I'm trying to get village council in first to give us the background in terms of forensic and what we mean by forensic so that we have an understanding of what that terminology means and how it gets played out in the world and how someone could be going through a criminal charge move, criminal charge and they're sent to court, once they're going to court for an arraignment, and the judge will order a competency evaluation. So right now, they're held at the state hospital, I believe. Sometimes they may be held in corrections. Sometimes there's just a mental health evaluation. Sometimes there's an evaluation to see if the person is in the same time the prime. And all of that plays out in the court system. But the question is where is the person held when it's going through that evaluation. And then if they gain competence, and that's proven, they're in a state hospital, are they released back to the community? And what's the notification process then? So there's so many layers to this. So I really want to get lunch counsel to bring in to just explain this before we get into the nuts and bolts of the bill so people understand what Yeah. That was was kind of day of losing forensic facility and who's gonna be helping.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: That was one of the primary topics in Vermont edition this past week.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And so what day are we doing? We're trying to get people. We're trying to organize that right now. The first person would be here is back to to come in to talk this through. We're trying to get

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: He wants to come to you

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: at two ish if you're done.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Tied up at two ish.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Whenever you're done.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thank you. Bumped off by 01:30 because I knew we wanted more conversations. So I'm gonna be tied up in two ish. Maybe a quarter of two ish or ten of tuition or 02:30 ish.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: It could be $2.45

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: ish. No, won't be that. Then we need somebody from the Department of Mental Health after this. And then the bill is being debated right now, probably tomorrow. Read your Senate calendar. It says 01/1993. It came out of Senate Judiciary.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: How did it come out of Senate Judiciary?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Four, one. All in favor, one of those that this is an amendment that strikes off strikes some controversial parts. It's in your Senate calendar of today. And the amendment is from Senator Lyons, who's Chair of Community Services. I mean, Health and Welfare. Health and welfare. Three members of the Senate Institutions Committee, Senator Harrison, Senator Major, and Senator Benson, as well as Senator Cummings and Senator Morley. Senator Morley is on health and welfare, Senator Lyons, and he is Senator Stewart, Senator Cummings. I just wanted to ask is he on the perps as well? Morley? I don't think so. Okay. No. So they they've really changed a lot of this, particularly that pertains around corrections. Corrections is really involved in this. This is gonna be a real heavy lift. So I would suggest when the bill comes over, I don't know what committee it will be in, if it will be our committee, but it will be in judiciary.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: It's gonna be a lot of work.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's gonna be controversial if it's gonna be a motion. So what other work? What other things did they have low hanging from?

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Can I ask you a question? Do do bills ever get assigned to two committees at once? Only one.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Only one. Just maybe the other committee won't be working on

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: it. Right.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But there's only one committee that has possession of it. Possession. And then what you can make the agreement is, you can work on your part and then just move the bill to

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: the other.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Or you have an agreement that both committees are working on it simultaneously, but it's house don't want

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: to commit. Yeah. So

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: those conversations. So Martin and I have not spoken. We've been busy with other things, so we haven't spoken. So I don't know where it's going to land. I don't think anybody knows at this point. The Senate, we ended the judiciary, But institutions committing there takes care of corrections, but they don't have enough background. So maybe that's why it was sent to judiciary. I don't know. But it's also gonna involve BGS. Because there's one part in there that talks about So it's in the amendment. Commissioner of Corrections would establish and operate a locked secure forensic facility for the secure evaluation treatment and care of individuals who are transferred pursuant to the particular section for forensic folks. The forensic facility shall be designed and operated in a manner that supports a therapeutic recovery oriented and trauma informed environment comparable to a community based residential treatment setting while maintaining appropriate levels of safety and security. So that tells me what is BGS by reading that. BGS is not listed. There's rulemaking. They have to come back and report to our committees. It's got to be pretty involved.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: So this is being envisioned within one current facility, right? And this is for men and women, right? Yeah. Okay.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And they do address the amendment that Center Alliance is coming out. Provide for the safe housing. This is all part of what the facility needs to look at. Provide for the safe housing and management of persons, including the ability to separate population by sex or gender. And to otherwise address clinical safety or operational considerations as appropriate, including the possible operation of multiple facilities, which then means Chittenden for the women.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: So we're then doing this twice, not just once.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because originally, we talked about having the mental health hospital in Berlin do it, and then they were talking about a different entrance so that folks were now coming in. But we've had some of these discussions. Well, we also talked about S 60. The secure residential. Right. Right. And then when we brought them back in last year, they got sick with. Right. It was once you use the word forensic, it was Medicaid. Right. That's right.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: So they're they're sticking Medicaid

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: on this? It's You're not getting Medicaid. No.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: They got $30

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: across quality.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But when it was up in your committee, the intent was before you knew that you were here. They were going to comport six beds up at the secure residential, which is up in Essex. There's 16 mental health beds there. So step down from the state hospital. They were gonna, I think it was around six beds. So it would be used for forensic folks. And we worked in BGS to do renovations there. So we could meet the standards. Then we had the Department of Mental Health in here last year to give us an update. They wouldn't say the word for Windsor. Because if you do that, you lose Medicaid funding. That's That's why right. They want to put it.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: You're talking about rather small population.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It is a small population. What Corrections then would have to do is employ a clinical services director to oversee all forensic clinical competency restoration services, implement staff qualifications, licensure, training, supervision requirements, ensure that a registered nurse licensed under certain part of law is available to provide care to transferred persons twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, this is under corrections. And that the Commissioner of Corrections can ensure the persons receive clinically appropriate assessment and treatment plan. So there's a lot of pressure here on DOC.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: We're at it.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's in our bail and what? So we've got a lot of work.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: And you'd be holding somebody potentially indefinitely in a correctional facility who was neither detained or sentenced.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: They've been charged. They may not be competent to stand charge.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Well, they're not. That's why they're there.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, but no, they have to be evaluated. Could

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: gain competency.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Some have been deemed that, and then have gone out and murdered some. Well, that's when they went out of the PCA hospital, because in the health world, and this is the other piece we'll have to understand in the mental health world, which is Kate and Kinnon, is that when a person is held at the state hospital for a graduation, held at the state hospital, anyway, involuntary. You don't get to the state hospital voluntarily. It's involuntary. It's through a good order regardless. When you are released, it's not public knowledge. It's all projected. When you're released from corrections, it's. Should that be each? Yeah. Yeah. But So we're gonna get in a lot of little nuances.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Sounds like there are a

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: lot of conversations and testimony there. Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I had a little bit

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: of hurt.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: If someone is

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: he a competent competent judge to be determined whether they're competent or not. Obviously, they've something that brought us in to be

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, if there's a criminal charge. Charge. If it's criminal charge, they go to court at arraignment and the judge can order them for a competency test. If the defense is saying the person's not competent to stand trial. Right. And that's where they get shipped to the state hospital. Now, could be a person, regular person like you and I, having a severe mental health breakdown, mental health crisis, refusing help, the family can go to court to ask if the person be involuntarily held, hospitalized, and they will be hospitalized. They're not criminally charged. That's totally separate. That's not considered forensic. It's totally separate.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: That's where I misunderstood. Thought you said they had been charged, but they have not necessarily To

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: be forensic, it could have to be charged.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Okay. But then I thought I heard you say when they're released, it's sealed

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: so If no they, one in the mental health world, if they've gained competency and are stabilized, they could be released from the state hospital. And due to HIPAA and all the laws around mental health, that is not public information. Right. We've worked on that upstairs.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: But they've been charged, so what would be the situation that they would release someone who

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because maybe they've been deemed competent and maybe they don't have to be detained in the production facility. It's not all situations. So there's back and forth. But sometimes they are held only at the state hospital.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: My advice would be there's two things you can do. Obviously, some of them just gotta come out of testimony because it is complicated. Full of learning how to ask those questions to the pros. But you can also, I know Gina's not here, she'll get mad at me. Look into it on the internet and don't think everything is there for her, but look into what it means and get an idea that's more than just the TV shows. And then we'll explain a little bit. I'm not up to speed as Bennington, Beers is at Elephant. So I don't want to give you perfect examples. I'm happy to in a day or two after I can go and research too, but it's something just take an hour or something and just look it up, watch a YouTube video, depends on where it's from, you're smart so you know which ones to go to, and just get a basis, get a help everybody that doesn't know what it is, have just a baseline so you know where we're starting, it's not going to make an expert.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Also, do Americans today, I believe now, that does not have one, and I'm not someone that always wants to just get on the bandwagon and be like everyone else, But I think there is a need, and there's been very specific cases that really illustrate the need. It's for their safety as well as for the public safety. The question is we're gonna be fixed. It's the appropriate setting to hold Oh, I understand. I understand. Electrical facility. And I've got that. So what pressure does that put on this budget? Because they're not gonna be able to handle it right now. And what pressure does that put on the facilities and population moving incarcerated folks because you're gonna have to separate the populations. You're gonna have to hire a different staff. You're going to have to beef up your well path contract to bring in the appropriate folks. So there's a lot of financial implications to the Department of Corrections if you're going to use Department of Corrections as the place where the And facility is going

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: for new people, I mean, Alice and Mary have been here a

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: lot longer than I have,

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: but I've been here eight years, it's been an issue the whole time I've been here, so it's not something

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's a new issue.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: It's not It's not a new

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Well, there's a morality issue there too.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: There is, a lot of issues.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: And I'm not even weighing in, but there certainly is one.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Right. So we're gonna have our work cut out. We're gonna do our work. We don't know where it's gonna lead us. It's gonna be a steep learning curve for all of us here. And we have to balance out what we know about our branches. This is gonna put a lot of pressure on DMC. Their budget is not going to be able to absorb this. They'll tell you what it is.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: So what is it you've said that we're going to have DOC in to discuss? It's going to be the forensic facility and it's going to be sort of health care? Well

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: passed with the gender equity.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: Because I guess just generally, and this is sort of a blob of an issue or a blob of a question, but we've got a new commissioner. We have at the women's facility a new superintendent. I'm curious generally how things are going. There's some whisperings. And also wondering how things worked out with the Vermont Asylum Assistance Project and etcetera, etcetera. Do we get to do some oversight in what we're doing too?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: The asylum thing, we need some more conversations with some folks. And that kind of got put off because we're so busy in the last two and a half weeks.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: A little bit. Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we've got to follow-up a little bit on that MOU. That's going to be some conversations that need to occur first before we do something. Would you wanna get in a new superintendent to women's facility to testify?

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: I'd be interested to hear how things are going.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. Why don't we try to set that up?

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I appreciate that, people. Yes. So aren't they suing states or is there wasn't there any news in

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: our film about

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: the DOC in this island?

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: I do not know.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thought there was wasn't

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: the zoogey. It was just an article, but it's been a while.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we'll do that. Is there any interest in taking, I mean, we've some wall, is there any interest in doing like field trips?

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Oh, yeah. One thing we talked about was the Waterbury Dance.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Should be helpful. I think every little bit to go to a correction.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. That's

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: high. And then a mask, not a one. Yeah. And I don't know if the two that really come to mind, and they're at opposite ends of the state, is St. Albans and Springfield. The Springfield from here is 90 miles.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Oh, there's nobody here from Newport.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's harder. I mean, they're all kind of but what you have what you have at Saint Albans is you got the license plate shop there. And this is where you're holding a lot of detainees. We've got work at the booking area and you're holding a lot of the federal marshals and ICE up there. In Springfield, you've got a lot of mental health issues there. You've got your largest infirmary. You also have no work program there whatsoever. And you've got the geriatric as well. So it's a whole different population than what you have in

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Saint Lawrence.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: They're very different.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Very different. I want to go to Springfield because I've been to Northwest and I'm like And the campus is not very different. Right, and I've never been to your place, which even if it's not great, I don't know what it looks like. Ours is dark and dingy. You're going to get a very specific view of

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, we do both.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I'd like to.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: If you're thinking it be important.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Because they're very different is is my point. Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Should we at least prioritize St. Albans? Because I think that's more Right. I don't care. So then the question is, do you do St. Albans? It's an all day thing.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Mhmm.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's an all day thing. If you really can't do it on a Tuesday or Wednesday Tuesday or Friday, because half the committee lives in one section of the state and the other half lives in the other. Do it

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: on Thursday.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you do it on Wednesday.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: In the nice six, it's an hour drive.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, Springfield from here is an hour and fifteen. So

[Conor Casey (Member)]: it's not

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Charles Strait in our interstate. But because it's right there by the accident in Springfield yet to see what just fits. But it's right right there.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Can we stop there?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Stop and see John. We'll stop and see We'll and see see John. We'll stop

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Oh, we got Conor. We don't need you. No. I know him.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Say hi to John.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: No. Definitely, you have John there, but Conor.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So those are three things we could do.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: We have three ideas for testimonies that aren't time sensitive to plug in. Are aren't. Aren't, yeah. Sometimes you just need to fill gaps at the end of the session. One, the Montpelier Flood Commission was interested in coming in and reporting on the $100,000 that we gave them in the capital bill last year. They've got some of the designs back on the head study there that into this, that ties into a lot of other capital complex related stuff, and could be a real sneak preview for

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That 100 ks came out of the probes.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Well, said, it made it look like I was trying to get a pork there, because purchase through the capital bill at the end there when it came back over here with it. Yeah. Yeah. Went in the capital bill at the end. It's like at the very end.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Why isn't it on a spreadsheet?

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Well, because the money's there and gone. Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: List will be on

[Conor Casey (Member)]: our spreadsheet. Should be on the spreadsheet.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Should be on the spreadsheet. Spreadsheet. Was just Maybe it

[Conor Casey (Member)]: went back. I mean, it would have been cash. But I actually still think that would have been on our spreadsheet.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: That was the perfect guy in the movie, and then you had to bring it up.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Yeah, I'll take that down. I mean, money is already out the door. And then my other two suggestions were, I'd love to get somebody in from CoreCivic at some point. Like everything we're talking about touches them, like the transgender care, the commissary stuff, telecommunications, general healthcare down there, I have a lot of questions on. I know we've had probably Corrections Corporation of America folks come in before they changed the name, but if we could get somebody regionally in there. We got someone last year, didn't we? I didn't know if we did, I know he was.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: He's down

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: there, he went, oh, he's from Vermont.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: But he's up Vermont. Okay, that's right.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: And then my third, I had a really interesting presentation that I thought could benefit the committee. The Irish Caucus all meets together there. Shawn was on other trips. There's a group called Allison, they're a nonprofit international education company that wouldn't look to replace like a CCV in corrections, but they offer diplomas and certificates for over 6,000 different courses there. They've started a partnership with West Virginia. It's essentially free with the exception of like the startup costs there. And it looks like they're just doing some great stuff. I was really interested when I heard the presentation, it's about a half an hour.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So if you could give the contact information for that.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, think as we're looking at the Wi Fi and everything, they can do it without the Wi Fi, but obviously if they have the Wi Fi, they can do a lot in a prison.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: Mostly Irish, are they an Irish company,

[Conor Casey (Member)]: they're an Irish company. So they give a good presentation. Oh, bet.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Then if you can also get in contact before civic through GFC. Yeah. And then, flight commission, who will be

[Conor Casey (Member)]: The John Cobbans is ready to roll whenever you want him. I can connect you on that stuff, Tate.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And it would be great if we can get any of these people in this week.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: I bet we could, yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: For the healthcare

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: piece in May, is there anything specific or you just want get really dive back into it?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I want to dive back into it. The well path

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: on

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: how that would, We gotta refresh our own memory. There anything else? So, we need to work with DOC for trips to the two facilities. And they might be better to do that sooner rather than later because we got some free time. I'm not gonna have so much on the floor but that's the time to do it.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: For the next couple of weeks. And

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: at the Waterbury Dam, that would be Ben Green.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Yeah. That'd be awesome.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But that would be nice to do on a nice spring day.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: So I'm looking to dress for that too.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. You gotta dress The glitter's hood. You gotta dress corrupt.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: For the damned, especially if

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: we're gonna go down and see, like, into this, like

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You gotta wear your jeans.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And you gotta wear different shoes.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Heels the hard way.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: He does.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Get boots and bring a shovel. I'm kidding. That's why I live in long time.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: You wouldn't recognize

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: me if they saw me at home. John took a picture of me a few weekends ago, hanging my clothes out on a Sunday morning kiss. He says, I'm gonna show that to your committee. I said, You better not. Now you're coming down to the prison, have the picture ready.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Exactly.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I was wearing my jammies. So, he's big over big boots that didn't fit anywhere in his boots.

[Kevin Winter (Member)]: And none of us do that?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: No. Yeah. So that gives you something to work with too, right?

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: And Pete has a little schedule already. Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And so anything else before we end up for the day? No. Okey dokey. We are done for the day. We're actually at 08:30 tomorrow morning.