Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: We are live. Welcome folks.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: This is House Corrections and Institutions Committee. It is March 31, Tuesday, March 31. We'll quickly go through a few items here in our capital bill trying to figure out who's going report what section and how to report. We're not going to be too, too long today. I do also want to have a conversation with folks just to pick the brains and to maybe what we should take up for testimony now that we have a little bit of a lull. I do have a quick meeting at 01:30. So, we'll see what we can do. I can go to my meeting and then maybe come back if another conversation will be closed. I don't know. In reporting the bill,

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Mary, do you just wanna report the whole pill? You do it, Shawn. Tell me how

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: I'll do part.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Already said I would do part of it.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: You know what part she want?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You want part of that. That's

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: It's awful. What I don't remember what sections that it was here. I think I did two and three, but I'm not sure.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's going to be really hard in a way to explain this because what we're going to do, we'll have the spreadsheets out. This is so can you see us going through it. The bill will be there, but it's going to be really hard to follow before.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Because you got bonded and cash or separate?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Until you get into until you get into some of the water stuff possibly, and then we get into summary allocation and then the cash section and then there's some policy towards an end. So what will happen, I will be the one that will give the introductory and I will lay out how the spreadsheet is organized and what the different colors mean, what the gray columns mean.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Well, they'll get a copy of this everybody? Yep, got it, just like the fontifed column.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What the gray column will mean, and I may not even not even put the blue.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Not many people ask questions, they should ask.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, it's all covered in the gray column anyway. And where the pale yellow and the bright yellow, what those indicate. With the gray column total eclipse, what the right column means, and then with those highlights. Okay. So, I don't think it's going to take that many people to report the bill. If we look on the front page of the spreadsheet, there are quite a few items here that are moving. One person maybe could take care of the whole front sheet, of a spreadsheet.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: So they go two, three, and four. I'm happy to do that unless somebody else has a dying desire to do so.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: No, go for it, Joe.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You want to do that, Joe?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Sections two through four?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah, but there's going to be some discussion. There's going to have to be some background on some of this, not just stock, but at the money. It's going to need to be background. There's going to need to be background in terms of 120 State Street. Why would we cut that million?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Yep, I can explain that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: There's going to need to be a background on

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Three acre, maybe. Somebody might get weird about that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Major maintenance. What do we do? Major maintenance. We got that. Maybe we added that.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: But for the most part, if something was reduced, it's because the project wasn't moving forward or because there was a lot of money left over from previous

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Somewhat's a little more complicated than that. 120 State Street is based upon Williams of FEMA?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Correct. So it's not moving forward? Well,

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it is moving forward.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: But we know when. And you don't know how either.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But there and there's also previous money that's been appropriated.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: But 120 States fee and me if I'm mistaken, but that will plausibly be part of a bigger HVAC project that encompasses more than one building.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: More rain for FEMA, and we've had money to ask for this.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: The

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: door controls is connected to door control in St. Albans. St. John. The spoiler is part of, there's more money that's been appropriated in the past, and this is connected to moving the ponds in the road. So, that's why we cut it by a million because of interest money from the previous appropriations. So that I can get you those dollar amounts too for that so that people know there's already money in the pot. The same thing with the DCF Youth Stabilization Facility. Could give, Joey talk a little bit about that. Where we are, there's an RFP that's out. BGS is negotiating with the developments or design build. Wi Fi, and then the replacement cleaning facilities. We've put in money, we want to make sure this gets built. It's going to be very expensive, so we're starting to put money aside for it. We need to get some of the background on some of these. We give them some of the background so they're not so liable to get questions, ask questions when they see 2,000,000 cut by a million or another 2,000,000 cut by a million or 2.7 cut by 2,000,000, it's both going to be flagged as questions. So then the next page, What if, though, you did section two and three and then section four, five, and six, that's where your changes are. You would be willing to do four, five, and six. And then we can do A and R and water together.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: I'll do the. And then you'll do the last one. Alright.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Great. So Joe will do two and three. John will do. It'd be a lot of deals.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Do I not have your Duke four?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 45, and six.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Think it much matters who does four. I mean, they gave a little change in road size marker. Right. Okay.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I'm just thinking I'll go slow because they don't want to do nine and ten.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: So I'm doing four and five? Four, five and six.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Ten and six.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Nine and ten as well.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: That means five adds absolutely no changes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah, you don't even have to talk about it. Sorry, he's been in New York and Saint Pinot too.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: It's hot or all over seven, eight, nine.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: I'm coming off the bench.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I don't have to do anything for military. I don't really know how to do anything unless somebody asks questions. And 13. Troy, you do the and stuff. Would you be willing to do thirteen, fourteen, and then the reallocations, bonded and cash?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Remind me what thirteen and fourteen are.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 13 is public safety with the urban rescue facility. And then judiciary is the Essex County with their water system. Finishing up White River Junction Courthouse and the Newport Courthouse. Yeah,

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: happy to do that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Zeroed out the cash. We kept in the bond. Right? Yeah. And then oh, and then we got the historical society, sixteenth. Climate control.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Yeah. Let's preserve the artifact, not the building.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Troy, that would be there.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Asked me about that. The member asked me about that.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: I saw what?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: About that item. The climate control stuff in society? Yes. Oh, because it came up in the appropriations bill. That's what he asked. Mike Hoyt. That's my wife. Was gonna say, I feel like that's a lot. Well, Mike, thank you for asking about that. To I can actually answer summarize it. Interesting. Actually, before it was explained to us, I flagged it. The data inside didn't make sense.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And what is in the pail is what the pale part is what the administration put in what's in highlight yellow highlights what we put in.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: I took sections. If you want sections, get on my sections.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Then Thanks.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: I want to do the section high.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What you could do, Will, is when you're talking about the drinking water revolving loan fund, you could go to the policy part of the bill, which is section ten and eleven.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Ten and eleven. So you could talk about that when you do your you got a big chunk, but it's all connected.

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: Sorry to finish what you said about drinking water. You said when I'm

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, when you do the drinking water revolving line, go to the policy section, page 14, find section 10 and also section 11, because that is the one which we put in for eligible mobile home park systems, which is really the manufacturer's home. So they're extending the loan payments length of time.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I would like

[William "Will" Greer (Member)]: to get one of those negative 3% of options that they speak of. That they speak of. That are spoken of? Yes. They are spoken of.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I see what you're saying. So we have to I'm gonna have to work with you. Let's do it in the vets.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Can That's me.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: With you because we're moving money around here

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: A lot, and that and we're gonna have to explain that.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Yep. I'm happy to work with you on me. Then the the overhaul.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You folks can go to the bill.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Page.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Section 19 is where we authorize the parents for these projects. And then we've got to give a nod to section 19.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: And

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: so the last person to speak to give a nod is section 19. Section nine, I'm sorry. It's not a 19 of the matter. It's section nine of the bill, page 10. That's where the cash fund starts. But somebody can give a nod to section nine. Will is doing ten and eleven. So then we pick up on section 12, which is page 17, which allows the storage reservation to go out for solicit grants. This

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: That's me.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yep. You could do that.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Well, it's in my section.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Yep.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: You could

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: do that. Yep. So you can mention that. Oh, you're not mentioning any particular project.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: The Bennington betterment.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: No. No. No.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: So Mary A. Warning me about. And furthermore, that's not how the authorization is worded anyway. It could be any state project.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: I know.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Jesus know

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: that. It's a state project.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Gonna be

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: as an example. Right. Right. So then it would be section nine, somebody we'd have to give a nod to.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Or if somebody wanted to donate to the Chester Arts Building.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And section 13, which is the leasing of the Forest And Parks and Vermont huts. Section 14, which is the land transfer down at the Southern State Facility. And 15, which repeals previous language for them to do the transfer. Section 16, which is language, it's also on the floats. Try to get DCF funding and band section 17. Wi Fi installation. Maybe, Joe, you could refer to section 17 when you do your section three.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yep, refer to section 17 in your Wi Fi.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, who wants to do cleanup on those last sections? The end of the At the end of the report. Report. You have to give a nod to explain the cash fund, section nine. This is the policy in the bill. And then section nine, section 12, it talks about not twelve, thirteen, which is the lease for some parks. Fourteen and fifteen is the transfer lab at the Springfield Correctional Facility and 16 is the high end system of facilities to produce which is going to be on hold until DCF comes up with the money.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Who's doing seven, eight, and nine?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Seven, eight, and nine are the reallocations.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Right. But

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Troy.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Oh, Troy's doing that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. He doesn't have to do it in the bill. He just does it on a spreadsheet.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Okay. To answer your question, far as batting back video, I have a courtesy reference to it, but if nobody volunteers, I'll do it.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Come on, later, step up.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: I'm happy not to report.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Do you want to do it, James?

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I'll do it if neither of anybody else is

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: on stage. I would love to, but I never, I'm sure, never would.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I'm looking to if it

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, you would be doing section nine, in that section if you wanted to get an appointment.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: The very modern man section?

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: The

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: veteran's sign. Taken.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Is he traveling down a certain lane?

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Don't wanna land that lane.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Muffin man wants the veteran's home, so he can be the muffin man for the sewers.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Do you wanna talk? Can if

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: not. I

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: can consult on the muffin man.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: He's joking. Nothing consultant.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Why is this saying 14?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Fourteen and fifteen together. 16. And then So 10 was James. 16. And then you get the committee vote. And that answer. What So who were what were were the last ones and who's doing it? Okay. James is doing section nine. Section

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. Captain.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. And then the copy vote. 9 no. 1010. It's 1001.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: I hope that's the right phone. 1001. Everyone tells me.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: And we ask for your support.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: And then you say how you do it.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: She can sit there, not yet. Gotta

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: get that in.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Don't be messing with me. I already asked that question. Will be the

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: cheerleaders on the side. Perfect.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Hope we get ready for you.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: I

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: think it's gonna be Tuesday. Was just talking to the chair of Approach, and I go down to a probes on Thursday morning. Mhmm. So they voted out on Thursday. It's not voted Friday. It's up on Tuesday, which is fine. Friday, we're not gonna work in the afternoon. We're done at twelve. It's always been what I've done. It's Good Friday. It's Good Friday? Oh, yeah. I've always done that. So we always did in the past. The legislature would close down at 12:00, but they don't do that. But I do that.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: When I was at Credit, we closed the dealership for a couple hours, but then we reopened. Yeah. Not a good time to get your car worked on.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You reopen.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Too many jelly beans, Will?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Before doing that day.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I just don't let the committee know Friday afternoon. We're done on the floor. And there may be something happening here. And we'll work till 12:00. I also want to spend a little bit of time just kind of hearing from the committee. We're going to have some low right now, some downtime for us to catch up on some of those things that we've talked about that need a little bit more work that we can get to that possibly we could wait till one of our bills. It gets worked down a little bit in the senate. We could ask them to put an amendment on. One thing that we did not do much work on due to timing was in the gender equity bill about medical care. We could schedule more testimony on that just to see if it gives us any further direction in terms of what we might be able to offer to Senate institutions committee to consider. I don't know if they're gonna work on the bill or not. Gina is standing right now giving testimony. And I don't know if folks would be interested in trying to schedule a vote at DOC in So for further conversations on why don't we see what they're scheduling this week? And I don't think we have much on the floor this week either. So we would and the floor is meeting at 01:00, I think.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yes. Yeah. Around my devotional.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Your birthday. On your birthday. So we would have tomorrow afternoon probably around quarter after two. 08:00, quarter after two. And Thursday afternoon, two, quarter to two, and we'd have all Thursday morning. We can have Friday morning after the floor. So that would be one thing.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: So tomorrow morning, what time are we starting?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 08:30. Because we've got BGS coming in to talk about the cash reallocations because we we didn't do much background.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Very well.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And we're trying to get we're gonna be dealing pretty heavily with the forensic unit within a professional facility. That's gonna be a real heavy lift. I'm trying to get village council in first to give us the background in terms of forensic and what we mean by forensic so that we have an understanding of what that terminology means and how it gets played out in the world and how someone could be going through a criminal charge and they're sent to court or a cigar court for an arrangement, and the judge will order a competency evaluation. So right now they're held at the state hospital, I believe. Sometimes they may be held in corrections. Sometimes there's just a mental health evaluation. Sometimes there's an evaluation to see if the person is in the same time. And all of that plays out in the court system. But the question is where is the person held when it's going through that evaluation. And then if they gain competence, and that's proven, they're in a state hospital, are they released back to the community? What's the notification process then? So there's so many layers to this. So I really want to get lunch counsel to bring in to just explain this before we get into the nuts and bolts of the bill so people understand what Yeah. That was was kind of, you know, who's sick forensic facility and who's gonna be helping.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: That was one of the primary topics in Vermont edition this past week.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And so what day are we looking We're trying to get people. We're trying to organize that right now. The first person will be here is back to come in to talk us through. We're trying to get

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: He wants

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: to come up to you at two ish if

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: you're done.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I'll be tied up in two ish.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Whenever you're done.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because I bumped off by 01:30 because I knew we wanted more conversations. So I'm gonna be tied up in two ish. Maybe a quarter of two ish or 10 of tuition or 02:30 ish.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: It could be 02:45 ish. No.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We need somebody from the Department of Mental Health after this. And then the bill is being debated right now, probably tomorrow. Read your Senate calendar. It says 01/1993. It came out of Senate Judiciary.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: How did it come out of Senate Judiciary?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Four, one. All in favor, one opposed to this, an amendment that strikes off strikes some controversial parts. It's in your senate calendar of today. And the amendment is from Senator Lyons, who's Chair of Community Services. I mean, health and welfare. Health and welfare. Three members of the Senate Institutions Committee, Senator Harrison, Senator Major, and Senator Benson, as well as Senator Cummings and Senator Morley. Senator Morely is on health and welfare. Senator Lyons. Senator Stewart. Senator Cummings. I just want to ask is he on the perps as well? Morning? I don't think so. Okay. No. So they they've really changed a lot of this, particularly that pertains around corrections. Corrections is really involved in this. This is gonna be a real heavy lift. So I would suggest when the bill comes over, I don't know what committee it will be in, if it will be our committee, but there will be a judiciary.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: It's gonna be a lot of work.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's gonna be controversial if it's gonna be a motion. So so what other work? What other things did they have well hanging for that off?

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: May I ask you a question? Do do bills ever get assigned to two committees at once? Only one.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Only one. Doesn't mean the other committee won't be working on it. Right. But there's only one committee that has possession of it. Possession. And then what you can make the agreement is, you can work on your part and then physically move the bill to

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: the other.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Or you have an agreement that both committees are working on it simultaneously, but it's housed in the Conversations. Martin and I have not spoken. We've been busy with other things, so we haven't spoken. So I don't know where it's going land. I don't think anybody knows at this point. The Senate, we ended in judiciary, But institutions committing there takes care of corrections, but they don't have enough background. So maybe that's why it was sent to judiciary. I don't know. But it's also gonna involve BGS. There's one part in there that talks about This is in the amendment. Commissioner of Corrections would establish and operate a locked secure forensic facility for the secure evaluation treatment and care of individuals who are transferred pursuant to the particular section for forensic folks. But a forensic facility shall be designed and operated in a manner that supports a therapeutic recovery oriented and trauma informed environment comparable to a community based residential treatment setting while maintaining appropriate levels of safety and security. So that tells me where is BGS, by reading that. And BGS is not. It's rulemaking. They have to come back and report to our committees. It's got to be pretty involved.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: So this is being envisioned within one current facility, And this is for men and women, right? Yeah. Okay.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And they do address the amendment that Center Alliance is coming out. Provide for the safe housing. This is all part of what the facility needs to look at. Provide for the safe housing and management of persons, including the ability to separate the population by sex or gender, and to otherwise address clinical safety or operational considerations as appropriate, including the possible operation of multiple facilities, which then means shipment for the women.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: So we're doing this twice, not just once.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because originally we talked about having the mental health hospital in Berlin do it, and then they were talking about a different entrance of the folks who are now coming in, and we've had some of these discussions. Well, also talked about a secure residential. Right, right. And then when we brought them back in last year, they've been sick from us. Right. It was once you use the word forensic, it was Medicaid. Right. That's right.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: So they're sticking Medicaid on this?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's You're not getting Medicaid. No.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: No. But when

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it was up in your committee, the intent was just before you knew that you were there. They were going to comport six beds up at the secure residential, which is up in Essex. There's 16 mental health beds there. So step down from the state hospital. They were gonna, I think it was around six beds. It would be used for forensic folks. And we worked in BGS to do renovations there. So we could meet the standards. Then we had the Department of Mental Health in here last year to give us an update. They wouldn't say the word forensic. Because if you do that, you lose Medicaid funding. That's right. That's why they want to put it.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: You're talking about rather small population.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It is a small population. So what Corrections then would have to do is employ a clinical services director to oversee all forensic clinical competency restoration services, implement staff qualifications, licensure, training, supervision requirements, ensure that a registered nurse licensed under certain part of law is available to provide care to transferred persons 24 a day, seven days a week. This is all under corrections. And that the commissioner of corrections can ensure the persons receive clinically appropriate assessment and treatment plan. So there's a lot of pressure here on DRC. We're in the So we've got a lot of work.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: You'd be holding somebody potentially indefinitely in a correctional facility who was neither detained or sentenced.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: They've been charged. They may not be competent to stand charge.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Well, they're not. That's why they're there.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, but no, they have to be evaluated. Could gain And some have been deemed that, and then have gone out and murdered someone. Well, that's when they were held at the first day hospital, because in the non health world, and this is the other piece we'll have to understand in the mental health world, which is key to plan, is that when a person is held at the state hospital for a graduation, Held at the state hospital, anyway, involuntary. You don't get to the state hospital voluntarily. No. It's involuntary. It's through a court order regardless. When you are released, it's not public knowledge. It's all projected. When you're released from corrections, it's.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Should that change?

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Yeah.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We're gonna get in a lot of little nuances.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Sounds like there are lot of conversations and testimony there. I get a lot more hurt. If someone

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: is complicated or judge to be determined whether they're competent or not, obviously, they've something that brought us in to be

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, if there's a criminal charge Charge. If it's criminal charge, they go to court at arraignment. And the judge can order then for a competency test. If the defense is saying the person's not competent, they stand trial. Right. And that's where they get shipped to the state hospital. Now, there could be a person, regular person like you and I, having a severe mental health breakdown, mental health crisis, refusing help, the family can go to court to ask if the person be involuntarily held, hospitalized,

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: and

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: they will be hospitalized. They're not criminally charged. That's totally separate. That's not considered forensic. It's totally separate.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: That's where I misunderstood. I thought you said they had been charged, but they have not necessarily To

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: be forensic, you have to be charged.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Okay. But then I thought I heard you say when they're released, it's sealed

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: so If no they, one in the mental health world, if they've gained competency and are stabilized, they could be released from the state hospital. And due to HIPAA and all the laws around mental health, that is not public information. Right. We've worked on that upstairs.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: But they've been charged, so what would be the situation that they would release someone who

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because maybe they've been deemed competent and maybe they don't have to be detained in the production facility. It's not all situations. So there's back and forth. But sometimes they are held only at the state hospital.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: My advice would be there's two things you can do. Obviously, some of them just gotta come out of testimony because it is complicated. Full of learning how to ask those questions and pros. But you can also, I know Gina's not here, she'll get mad at me. Look into it on the internet and don't think everything is there for, but look into what it means and get an idea that's more than just the TV shows. Then we'll explain a little bit. I'm not up to speed as Bennington Beer has said, I will do. So I don't want to give you perfect examples. I'm happy to in a day or two after I can go and research this, but it's something to just take an hour or something and just look it up, watch a YouTube video, depends on where it's from. You're smart, you know which ones to go to. And just get a basis, get a help everybody that doesn't know what it is, have just a baseline so you know where we're starting, it's not going to make an expert.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Also, do Americans today, I believe now, it does not have one, I'm not someone that always wants to just get on the bandwagon and be like everyone else, But I think there is a need, and there's been very specific cases that really illustrate the need. It's for their safety as well as for the public safety. The question is that we're gonna be fixed. It's the appropriate setting to Oh, I understand. I understand. The electrical facility. And I've got that. So what pressure does that put on this budget? Because they're not gonna be able to handle it right now. And what pressure does that put on the facilities and population moving incarcerated folks because you're gonna have to separate the populations. You're gonna have to hire a different staff. You're going to have to beef up your well path contract to bring in the appropriate folks. So there's a lot of financial implications to the Department of Corrections if you're going to use Department of Corrections as the place where the And facility is going

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: for new people, I mean,

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Alice and Mary have been here a lot longer than I have, but I've been here eight years with every, it's been an issue the whole time I've been here. It's not something

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Not a new issue,

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: it's not new. And

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: So, what is it you've said that we're going to have DOC in to discuss? It's going be the forensic facility and it's going to be sort of healthcare? Well

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: passed with the gender equity.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: I guess just generally, and this is sort of a blob of an issue or a blob of a question, but we've got a new commissioner. We have at the women's facility a new superintendent. I'm curious generally how things are going. There's some whisperings. And also wondering how things worked out with the Vermont Asylum Assistance Project and etcetera, etcetera. Do we get to do some oversight on what we're doing too?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: The asylum thing, we need some more conversations with some folks. And that kind of got put off because we're so busy in the last two and a half weeks.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Little bit. Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we've got to follow-up a little bit on that MOU. That's gonna be some conversations that need to occur first before we do something. Would you want to get in a new superintendent at the wellness facility to testify?

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: I'd be interested to hear how things are going.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Why don't we try to set that up?

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Appreciate that, people. Yes. So aren't they suing states or is there wasn't there any news in our field about the DOC in Jos Island?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: I do not know.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Thought there was

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: It wasn't the zoogey. It was just an article, but it's been a while.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we'll do that. Is there any interest in taking I mean, we've some wall. Is there any interest in doing like field trips?

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: One thing we talked about was the Waterbury Dance.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Should be helpful. I think every little bit to go to a correction.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. That's

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: fine. And then in a mass, not a one. Yeah. And I don't know if the two that really come to mind, and they're at opposite ends of the state, is St. Albans and Springfield. Where's Newport? The Springfield from here is 90 miles.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Oh, there's nobody here from Newport.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's harder. I mean, they're all kind of but what you have what you have at Saint August is you got the license plate shop there, and this is where you're holding a lot of detainees. We've got work at the booking area and you're holding a lot of the federal marshals and ICE up there. In Springfield, you've got a lot of mental health issues there. You've got the largest infirmary. You also have no work program there whatsoever. And you've got the geriatric as well. So it's a whole different population than what you have in

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Right. They're very different.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Very different. I want to go to Springfield because I've been to Northwest. And

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: the campus is very different.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Right, and I've never been to your place, which even if it's not great, don't remember what it was like. Ours is dark and dingy. You're going to get a very specific view of What would you about? I'd like to, but

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We've been thinking it would be important.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Because they're very different is my point.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: To maybe prioritize St. Albans because I think that's more Right.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I don't care. So then the question is, do you do St. Albans? It's an all day thing. It's an all day thing. If you really can't do it on a Tuesday or Wednesday Tuesday or Friday, because half the committee lives in one section of the state and the other half lives in the other.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Do it

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: on Thursday.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you do it on Wednesday. In

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: the nice six St. Emmons, it's only an hour drive.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Springfield from here is an hour and fifteen.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: It's to nothing.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's all straight in our interstate. But because it's right there by the exit of my Springfield yet to see what just fits. But it's right right there.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Can we stop there for

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Stop and see. We'll stop and

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: see We'll

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: stop and see John.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Got Conor. We don't

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: need you.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: I know.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Say hi to John.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: No, definitely you have John there, but Conor.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So those are three things we could do.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: I think about three ideas for testimonies that aren't time sensitive to plug in. Aren't. Aren't, yeah. Sometimes you just need to fill gaps at the end of the session. One, the Montpelier Flood Commission was interested in coming in and reporting on the $100,000 that we gave them in the capital bill last year. They've got some of the designs back on the head study there that it lifts up, that ties into a lot of other capital complex related stuff, and could be a real sneak preview for

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: The 100 ks came out of a probes, right?

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Well, said, it made it look like I was trying to get pork there, because it took fruit on the capital bill at the end there when it came back over here with it. Yeah, it went on the capital bill at the end. It's like at the very end.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Why isn't it on a spreadsheet?

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Well, because the money's there and gone.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: List would be on our spreadsheet.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Should be on the spreadsheet.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Gotta be.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: It's gotta be on spreadsheet.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: If it went

[Conor Casey (Member)]: back, I mean, would have been cash. But I actually still think that would have been on our spreadsheet.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: That was the perfect kind, Pete. And then you had to bring it up? No. He died in himself. Yeah,

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I stopped.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Yeah, I'll take that down. I mean, money is already out the door. And then my other two suggestions were, I'd love to get somebody in from CoreCivic at some point. Like everything we're talking about touches them, like the transgender care, the commissary stuff, telecommunications, general healthcare down there, have a lot of questions on. I know we've had probably Corrections Corporation of America folks come in before they changed the name, but if we could get somebody regionally in there.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: We got someone last year, didn't we?

[Conor Casey (Member)]: I didn't know if we did,

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: I know he was He's down there, he went, oh, he's from Vermont. But he's a Vermont Okay, that's right.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: And then my third, I had a really interesting presentation that I thought could benefit the committee. The Irish Caucus all meets together there. Shawn was on other trips. There's a group called Allison, they're a nonprofit international education company. They wouldn't look to replace like a CCV in corrections, but they offer diplomas and certificates for over 6,000 different courses there. They've started a partnership with West Virginia. It's essentially free with the exception of like the startup costs there. And it looks like they're just doing some great stuff. I was really interested when I heard the presentation, it's about a half an hour.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, if you could give the contact information for that.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Yeah, sure, sure.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: That sounds great.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Yeah, I think as we're looking at the Wi Fi and everything, they can do it without the Wi Fi, but obviously if they have the WiFi, they could do a lot in a prison.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Are they an Irish company?

[Conor Casey (Member)]: They're an Irish company. So they give a good presentation. Oh, you bet.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And then if you can also kindly give me something you can get in contact with ForeSivic through DOC. Then flood commission will be

[Conor Casey (Member)]: John Coban is ready to roll whenever you want him. I can connect you on that stuff, Tate.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It would be great if we can get any of these people in this week.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: I bet we could, yeah.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: The healthcare piece,

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: five fifty's or anything specific, or you just want get really dive back into it?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I want to dive back into it. Okay. The well path.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We've to refresh our old memory. There anything else? So we need to work with DOC for trips to the two facilities. And it might be better to do that sooner rather than later because we got some free time. I when I'm not gonna have so much on the floor, but that's the time to do it.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: For the next couple of weeks. Mhmm.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And at the Waterbury Dam, that would be Ben Green. Yeah.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: That'd be awesome.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That would be nice to do on a nice spring day.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Mhmm.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: So I'm looking at some dress for that too.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. You gotta dress for The glitter's hood? You gotta dress grubby.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: Yeah. For the dam, especially if we're gonna

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: go down and see, like, into this, like You gotta wear your jeans.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And you gotta wear different shoes.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Heels don't work.

[Conor Casey (Member)]: Heels. He got

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: boots and bring a shovel. I'm kidding. That's what I live

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Member)]: in a long bring a shovel. You won't

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: recognize me if they saw me. John took a picture of me a few weekends ago, hanging my clothes out on a

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Sunday morning.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: He said, I'm gonna show that to your committee. Said, You better buy it. It's not coming down to the prison, have the picture ready. Exactly. I was wearing my jammies. It's okay. Big over big boots that didn't fit when I wear his boots. That's so nice. Clothes.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: And none of us do that? No. It's snow

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: on the ground. So that gives you something to work with too, right? Yes.

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: And Pete has a little schedule already. Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And so anything else before we end up for the day? No. Okey dokey. We are done for the day. We're actually at 08:30 tomorrow morning.