Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Welcome folks, this is House Corrections and Institutions Committee. Hang on a second. This is Tuesday, March 17, St. Patty's Day. And I'm gonna start doing markup for our capital bill. And I do have to get a text off. One second. Are they still? Yeah.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I just talked to

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Shawn. So major maintenance, section two, the capital bill, we're starting to mark up major maintenance. Now when we do the budget adjustment, we can also go into the FY twenty six budget as well, if we have to, to pull money from there as well. Sometimes the money that we've put in FY '26, the project may not have been moving forward as quickly as it had hoped. Depending how much money has gone out the door on a particular project, depending how much is left, plays into how much money would be in FY '27. Okay. So, it's not just looking at FY '27, it's looking at the two years. And even though the governor has not proposed a budget adjustment for some of the line items, it doesn't mean. Does that make sense to folks? Because this is a little different process than last year. Okay. So, major maintenance for BGS. There is the governor's proposed. I'm get my head around this. We put in total of $8,500,000 and the Governor is proposing that we put in an additional I've to get my head around this. There'll be an additional 2.7. Trying to read. So we put in cash in FY '26, 1.5, and there's an additional 1.2 that the governor has proposed, but he's keeping the bonded at 8.5. I'll speak up at once. What do folks want to do?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: And Joe, I've got fund is down to $3,000,000

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Less Less yeah. This was pending for

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: me. Right.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: What fund?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: The fund. But this fund is down to $3,000,000

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What could people want to do with maintenance?

[Rep. Conor Casey]: I can be inclined to keep it as is. It gives the flexibility to It's all the sort of intangible stuff that you don't see on here. It just seems really important with all the pressures we have lately.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We are all set there. And to continue with the cash at 1.2, graphite 27. 1.281.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: I can play around with that stuff a wee bit later, right? Planning,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: reuse and contingency, that was not touched, but last year we put in $2.50 each year for a total of 500,000. What I have for a balance from the testimony we've received, there's a balance in there from f y twenty four through f y twenty six. There's a balance of 643,000.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Say that again.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: There is if you go to these documents that came out to us folks. Planning reuse of contingency from f y twenty four through f y twenty six. There is a balance of 643,130. So for notes that I have that might be playing into this, is trying to figure out what to do with the old Williston Barracks. We're not sure if we're going to keep that or not. We're kind of evaluating that. Then we have, Percolating in the Senate is the forensic unit within the correctional facility. And we don't know what we're also doing with Chittenden replacing the Chittenden and dealing with any reentry piece, possibly with that. There's 643,000. Now this is as of January, and what we put in last year and bonded is 250,000.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: And last year, this isn't showing.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Had 250,000 of cash in FY twenty six. So what the truck's wanted to do. It's a total of half 1,000,000 over two years. At 4026 and at 4027. And you have six hundred and forty three deaths. You know, it's hard to get back engaged to come look at me, make a decision. Remember, we're looking for money too. Just to put out what's out there. Terms of housing for state colleges that came in as a report. So we don't have to do it. This is what's dangling out there. A million dollars. There's 1,300,000.0 for the reconfiguration of the entry to the state house and ADA, 200,000 plus for the recovery process, which is really out of out of. And then we wanted to also address WiFi within our correctional facilities, which is last year we were looking at was 3,000,000 and appropriations has passed if we could help them in any way.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: What does that mean? They can do whatever they want unilaterally.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, it's yes and no, but they would like us to free up cash.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Was there a hypothetical number that was mentioned?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we've got a lot of pressures. I'm just laying the table. Laying the table out there.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Maybe you could flag that as a maybe. Maybe that could be trimmed a little bit, but I don't think it's maybe get back to it. But I don't think it's reasonable to say anything further than that until we get through this markup a little more.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Yeah, did just a question. So, you may have said it, Tara. So, 680 some thousand? $6.40. $6.40. How does that relate to the $420,000 number that's committed for like, 111 State Street, Cherry Street, other locations, right? I'm looking at the document here. Committed 420,000.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I didn't like that, but it's like

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I mean, you're using contingency.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: You're in there a date on the document?

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Not the one on the website here for the day.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I'm sure that's what I touched your thought on. The 100? The slide deck. The 400?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I was looking at the wrong date.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Is it a date? Wrong date.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I was looking at the wrong date.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: You're looking at page five on '26.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: No. I was looking at January 8. That was. So there's a balance. That was even more for the. Because you've got committed.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: I just don't want to hear that stuff. This wasn't mine.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So what this sheet shows here is a balance of 944,000. Right? Does that include or not the 420,000 that's going be? It does

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: not. It

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: does not. So four twenty minuteus 944.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Joe, what date is that one that you showed us?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It is.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It should be worth the date you

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: have. Thank

[Rep. Conor Casey]: you. So we're really looking more like a 04/20 balance here?

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I'm gonna step out and Oh. Show my

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Go ahead. I'm sure there's

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: a good reason that if I had to start from scratch, I'd have a column in here that shows what monies are still encumbered for each one of these yuan. I know you've got it there, but why wouldn't you put it on here so we can see the whole picture rather than peeking That's what we sent her.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So if you put it on the spreadsheet, do you have any questions, My

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: question is, is would it be possible to add a column in here that shows what monies and what funding

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: is not yet

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: encumbered for each of these categories? So we can see what's left over as of whatever date we wanna pick so that we can compare it to what we think we wanna do fiscal year twenty seventh.

[Scott Moore (Joint Fiscal Office)]: For the record, Scott Moore, Joint Fiscal Office. If I'm assuming your question correctly, it is possible to add a column for what's unencumbered and I think you're okay. The tricky part is because these are living, breathing documents, they would change potentially every single day. So I would hesitate to put something out there that's that you're be basing decisions on knowing that this morning Joe can bring a check and the number is 100,000 less than it was last night. That's my one qualm about doing that.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: But in the absence of a line in the sand, we're going back to old documents that are dated, who knows when, and they're not consistent. And we're trying to do math on the fly rather than having a consistent line in the sand that we can compare to. I'll shut up from there.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's part of markup. The beginning of this session, we take testimony and get the background and the documents. And then when we do markup, we go back to those There

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: were no, this is something.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We have, And we will have more questions.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: And

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: then we can ask BGS for further in-depth discussion, but then determines what we object to put on the line item.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: That was a valid question.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's the process we're going through right now. Can we have one conversation? So, for planning, reuse, contingency, the information that we were given on January 22 in this document here was they showed a balance of $944,000 but of that $420,000 has been committed. So that leaves a balance of 5 and 24,000 Planning and reuse. That includes the FY 27 bonded dollars. It also includes the f y twenty six cash. So it's everything that they have, which is $2.50 and $2.50 for the two fiscal years. Mhmm. And so at the theoretically, at the end of f y twenty seven, they would have 500,000 in the bank that could be used for other items throughout FY '27. Because you've got 120 And 111 State Street is committed. The USA, that's your alternative locations for your state police barracks. Not barracks, but Facilities. Facilities. That's in planning only, but there is money elsewhere in the bill for that possibly? Or there has been money appropriated for that elsewhere in previous bills?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I don't think the language is there to do the search term.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, no, I'd be planning to do this.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: You're finding me. Yep.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And where are we with 108 Cherry?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: 108 Cherry is sort of back in BGS' lap. Potential purchase and sales that we had has lapsed due to some of the findings that we found or through testing and whatnot from the prospective buyer. So we're sort of regrouping on that. I would close it out still talking to the prospective buyer but that's where we're at.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Why do you mean not because we're putting 108 up for sale. Why do you need planning reuse contingency?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: For the record, Joe, age of EGS. What we're looking at right now if that potential buyer still walks away it's what are we doing in the facility. Can we continue to put it up for sale? Do we have to do another assessment? I know right now we're also looking at the security is looking at issues with the exterior of the building on the ramps and the archways, way that building is denied, and some of the homeless issues that are going on to do more protection to keep them further away from the property which means by wooding up some of the entrances. So there's a potential of that exactly what I'm going do. Do we have to do another structural analysis that we have not done for several years since we decided to put the property? Since we had a purchase and sales agreement in place, the structural engineer may require us to complete another one to deem that it's still safe to go into the building. And while you're talking live and up to date, mean, we've also spent out of this fund on like the Waterbury subdivision of a cornfield, roughly $20,000 on that. I'll be spending more for a wastewater permit to complete a RAT two fifty application. So there are still funds coming out of this. It's all starting to change the plan, projects that do go over.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Where are we sitting here?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Sounds like we don't want to leave this alone.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What folks?

[Rep. Conor Casey]: I was gonna propose shaving a little bit there.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: How much?

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Well, I'm just wondering, Mike, it looks like it's a $250,000 a year appropriation generally. I don't know how that compares with previous years here. But if you have $5.20 left in the bank, that's more than double what a single year would be from the last year. If you put a bit off that, would that still be enough to cover what we have with all the projects we just talked about? What's a bit? Oh, did I not say a number?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: One No. 150,000.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yeah. I would flag it to maybe, because the question is, there's some other things that want to be funded, one of which I'm fairly sure we universally aren't interested in funding from a philosophical perspective. And so then it's just a relative merit thing. So I would suggest just flagging it as a maybe small deduction, as we work through the whole thing. We don't have to make a ruling on each item, McKellar, do we?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We do? Or you can come back

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: to it? We can come back to it. We'll be going

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Four times. This is our first walk. So what's going on at the 120, 111 State Street for planning reuse? The

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: proprietors there, we do get some money back towards this biennium and mishap the biennium. Still the 120 out there how we're going to incorporate that project in with potential flood mitigations that are going on. Same with 111 whether or not we're going to have to move people around for the flood mitigations that we're going to do and or the renovations. What we don't want to do is start a flood mitigation work in 133 Twain Street and have people have to relocate and go the 120 project's going to be somewhat on pause yet again. So we're trying to incorporate both projects concurrently so we don't have that issue. Both projects can be old.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So is that all part of working through FEMA in terms of knowing what you're going to be doing?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: FEMA will not pay for anything on the 129 project from 01/2011. Can

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: you move ahead in doing some of that without knowing what FEMA's going to do for the rest of the capital complex? That's

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: why

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: we've put the stop, I have not put the RFP out for design on 120 State Street yet because of that. We're not far enough along with FEMA to know whether or not we're going to accept a '4 28 plan which is all the capital complex as a whole will have to go to individual buildings. It's individual buildings because that turns

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: out dollar wise to be the better way

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: to go. And that's what we're 120, I'm not sure how 01/2020 comes to that mix. Makes it a bit difficult. But I don't know yet. So these are some of the things that would be bringing in a planner to help us evaluate some of those items as to who can go where.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So when you say the 420,000 is committed, it's not encumbered.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's not encumbered, it's committed enough by going through these projects here at some of the Smile ones, but we're looking at using the planning money for reuse, that's what we believe is a good number. And then the balances for our projects throughout the FY27 that we're not aware of yet and are continuing.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And that's where the $5.24 and the $9.44 if you take away the $4.20 leaves you $5.24 to get you through FY '27.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: When you look at projects that are under BGS's control of admin funding or to BGS to look at some of the items in other sections, if the project does come in over budget, we potentially just have to put it on hold. And that's what the contingency fund is for. And that, you know, we shouldn't use that contingency as long as we do a fifteen year.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, Conor, you threw out that we shave it by a 150 or leave it at a 150?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So that leaves you 100.

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: I

[Rep. Conor Casey]: mean, was thinking more $5.20 minuteus 150, right? That's what's in a bank.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: The Yeah, 400

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: but two years still.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: But that's something to put aside, right?

[Rep. Conor Casey]: I just know by the end of the sheet, we're gonna be saying, Where did we look?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay, well, we can flag that up. This is our first walkthrough. So you're saying for FY '26 or FY '27. You shave it by 150.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah, that's fine. Between that 500. Oh, wait. Never mind. Jeez. How many

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: how's that? You've got same number together.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. You've got one figure. Yeah. Yeah. One And then f y 27, you've got two fifty bonded. Mhmm. You want to take it for.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Oh, man. Now it's the interrogation of May here.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: No. I it. I get

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: to disagree. I don't think we should take anything out of it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Sorry, folks?

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: I mean, that's their that's their their wander. If something comes in over budget and then we can get something out the door that we have all this money invested in already and they're I mean, that's some important, amount of money for them to have. I'd rather nix the frigging state house entry and completely zero that thing out since that's not going anywhere than shave their contingency fund by 150 k. Because that's like, oh, we didn't have 25 k, and then we don't get $3,000,000 out the door because we're short because that contingency fund's short. That's that's a money.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That's what you were saying. Right, Troy?

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Yeah. I I agree I agree with Gina. It sounds like Joe's saying that this is, like you know, I mean, I don't like to say slush fund, but it sounds like it's a place for him to go to make stuff happen with a contingency with the sale of one zero eight Cherry. If, let's say, they need to shore something up and that it's preventing us from making $5,000,000 on it or whatever, you know, it seems to me that that's

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: Looks like there's plenty of other places I'd be happy to cut money. Correct. I'm with you on that. Five.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You're getting outvoted there, Conor. Other folks Let's know.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Sorry, just a bit of a fiscal

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: Bathroom problems.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Other folks, do we keep it as is, or do we shave it?

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: I'd say keep it as is for the at least for the child.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: I still think it's worthy of flagging for possible re re visitation here later on. I'm in the maybe corner.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So why don't we flag it? Let's not cut anything at this point, but just flag it.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yep. I flagged it on my own.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So moving on to physical security enhancements. These are card access, security enhancements coming into buildings. We had $2.50 in bonded, What the governor is proposing is Assuming keeping the $2.50 and bonded for 27 and adding $2.25 to that.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: In cash.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: In cash, on top of the cash that we had in our FY '26.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Mhmm. Which is really behind there.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Mhmm. Which is $4.75 total cash. Mhmm.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Spended at $64.06 right now.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: What's that?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Expended right now to date is $64.06. Well, as of whatever this was changed.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And the balance is 660,000, which includes the cash for FY '26. It includes the bonded 27 at $2.50 and the cash of $2.25. This is for card readers, cameras, and lockdowns and panic button. So they've expended, of all of that, which is 7 and 25,000, they've expended 64,000 to date for a balance of $6.60. And the balance, what is it now? Do you know, Joe?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: They have expended a 167,000.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: On top of

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: includes the 64. It's a $100,104. Cash was one sick today's amount was a $167,470.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Say that one again? Be a

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: $1.06 $7.04 $7.00 is what we've expended.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay. But that includes the 64.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That is correct.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So it's really $1.01 $0.03. Yeah. So you have about $555.05 60.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Take 100 from that.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Good questions. On our original walkthrough on this, we skipped this line because the commissioner wanted to discuss it separately, but I'm not recalling that separate discussion.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I have the note too that why don't

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Did we have that conversation? I don't remember.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I do not remember.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I mean, can I ask Joe? Yeah. Joe, so

[Rep. Brian Minier]: explain that. Will you will you spend this money this year? Could you could could is this a place that we could trim a little bit?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I really can't answer that. It's up to the security director Yep. To answer that. I know his projects are separate than mine. If I'm doing a project, I incorporate this work, this is out and beyond those topics. So another door has to be added, it's his budget, if you've got to replace boards, whatever, it's all.

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: For the director, Will Anderson from Finance and Financial. There's a plan within BGS, including in the adjustment numbers you'll see reflected here to change its costs currently in the operating budget, the capital bill where it should belong to exactly the infrastructure enhancements that you're about to see. The expectation would be yes. The funding is currently there, so we spent this year and the funding expected or requested the government to recommend will be used in FY '27, where we previously had been in the operating budget.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And why would it be in the operating budget? What's in it that justifies moving it to the capital bill? Why was it originally in the operating budget?

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: Probably should have been in the capital bill all along. Can't speak to initially why some of this was included in the operating budget, but it would be better suited to be included in capital bill, because these are physical enhancements, card readers, the like, that we're trying to put in the buildings.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We've been funding this for quite a while. So has it been split between the capital bill and the general fund? Because we've been funding this right along.

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: So it's been in between the capital bill and fee for space child service fund, which is then distributed across departments.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: I'm still saying a 100 k out of it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because of pressures on the general fund, you move that stuff over to this bit. Would I guess if it's coming out of fee for space.

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: I would say, not insured, the reasoning behind it is because the administration wants the capital built to represent investments in fiscal infrastructure rather than trying to get one pressure in one fund to another place. It's more about the actual investments that we're trying to make in security.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Well,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: currently, they have about $5.55, $5.60 to get them through f y twenty seven.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: $4.55 sounds good to me.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Probably not a 100?

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Yeah. I mean, I it's like that's to

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: me I don't know.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: It seems like that's a place where we could grab a $100 and just put it aside. Just a thought.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: sounds. I mean, it's

[Rep. Conor Casey]: gonna get spent, I wanna spend it. Right? Like, that's the thing. This is important stuff. It's

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Well, isn't the money we're putting aside here gonna get spent? Here's my question.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's if Wanda wanted to come back in, is there time for her to come the next day or so to speak about the specific issue that didn't get readdressed?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yep. So let's say we'll bring Wanda back, bring the commission back. Make a note here too. Yeah. So we'll see if we can schedule her in tomorrow. Yeah.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Mhmm. Yep.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Three acres stormwater compliance. We put in 1.5 in FY twenty six and '1 point one in FY '27. So, we have got to date, we've only had Professor Mike in January, which includes the bonded money for '26 and the bonded money for '27 plus previous appropriations, There's a total that they had in hand at 5,800,000.0. And they were going to do central services in Middlesex, St. Albans Correctional Facility, and the Pittsburgh Criminal Justice Training Council.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: We also had them delayed. And that

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: We robbed them last year.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Construction was anticipated by April. I'm just curious if there's an update on that.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. Those three projects are permitted and went to bid in February. So have we gotten anything back? Do we know where we're headed?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It actually did not get out in February. Well, they're sitting there waiting to get out. We just had to finish process them to get them on the screen for bidding. But we are under time for anybody to send out your resources to complete these five years of their permit.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Five years of their permit? And when did their permit So that was last year.

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: This is where we shave a bunch of money for.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Well, it's like there's also

[Rep. Brian Minier]: bunch of money in there. Are

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: you so worked up to that?

[Rep. Brian Minier]: I'm not a big fan of

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: the three years old, just

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: the clients.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Know. But it's all under five years of your permit. We don't know if that's gonna change. We're always seeing now and then.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: So when

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: was the permit issued for those three?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: We're about to need for government on

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: average for those three. Still working towards the other ones. We do have a permit for the Jones that is roughly all in that same time frame, probably that was more of a year and a half old. It's just that when we did go to the city of Virginia's, the issue there was still at the delivery of the potential new facility and they were looking close to upgrade the sidewalk that was out there, and so have I not been able to find out who actually owns that side.

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: We don't have any ballpark on any of these, do we, on what the costs are going to be?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No. I don't have that with me.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What I've got from Middlesex was 300,000. St. Albans Correctional was 1,000,000. And the Pittsford was 500 to 800,000. So 2,100,000.0 at the most. So we have five years from a time as permitted. You have to complete the project.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: So you don't have any construction dates yet? I do not. Last we heard in January was construction by April. That's not gonna happen.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Not even happened by April. Yeah. They picked this they're out of bed. Let's say the next week. Oh, It would be June, mid June. Yeah.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Quick question for

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: mister A. Happens if we don't do this in five years? You don't know what the penalty is.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But it's five years from the time of the permit.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: The penalty is basically zero because we would pay the penalty to ourselves.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's five years from the time of the permit, right? Yeah. The ones that have a permit is for Gens. They have a permit, which is about a year and a half old. Middlesex, St. Albans and Pittsford, they each have a permit, and that's about a year old. So you're talking from 2025 to 2030 or 2029 for regents. And I don't know where that falls within the calendar year. So I'm assuming the clock starts ticking within a calendar year, not a fiscal year. I don't know.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's calendar

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you're overlapping two fiscal years. So, if it's needed in, say for GEMS, it's needed by calendar year twenty ninth, You're

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: at least to complete the work. It's got to be under construction coming in.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: How is it likely if you go out to bid and get a contractor they would be able to do it or would they already do so their calendar works?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I never know that, that's a good question because that's asked every time we go out to bid, and sometimes we get zero bids, sometimes we get five or more. Depends on what the climate is and the time frame that they have or window on. Things are looking up. We have more people, more contractors who have been interested in bids, but we don't know the best. To continue on now with Newport, Newport's well underway. We have to resolve the stormwater permit for the compliance there before we can start construction of our boiler plant up there, which I'm looking to be later this year. We're hoping to start work, whether it's on because we're having to rearrange the stormwater ponds so that work could start soon, sooner than later, once we have a permit in hand. So at Newport, those two are tied together. If I can move my stormwater ponds, we'll be excavating for the building. We're starting work on the boiler plant this year.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's tied in Newport is tied into the boiler plant. And do you have a permit right now for Newport?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Because those are sort of back and forth on how we can fit the building where there's storm water ponds that are right there. And so we believe we had a plan. Let's see, two a half, two weeks ago, I saw a plan come across my desk where we could give the most doable. So then if we all agree we're moving forward, then Department of ANRA get approval on that.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So that one would be a higher priority, in a way, than Middlesex, St. Albans, and Pittsford. And it might be on equal par with Virginia's possibly?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Probably all of potentially. Virginia's, I've got Nathan, none moving forward with that, but as much as maybe in Pittsburgh or St. Albans, because in Pittsburgh we also have the fire rate range potential that's coming out in a year and then that will, because that's a structure that will add to these three acre rural requirements, I gotta go back and then amend that permit. Same with St. Albans with the entryway project. So I'd like to be able to get those done and out of the way before seeking another permit.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And you don't know what the cost would be for some of those projects? Like the so Newport. Let me focus in on Newport. I'd like to know how much money we've put in to date for the boiler. Because we've put in previous capital bill monies for the boiler up in Newport. And then the governor has put in 2,000,000 for f y twenty seven. So we already have some money in the bank for the boiler in Newport.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That is correct. And next biennium, we'll be looking for the balance for that project for the boiler.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I know. I wanna find out how much money we've put in. James. Which

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: number which table are you looking at? Twice on

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it. Sixteenth? Yeah. But that one be the

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: right one. Go ahead.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That wouldn't be the right one, but it's gotta be under DOC.

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: Like, BGS. Right?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Not BGS. Okay. So I would like to get the updated number in terms of what we have right now for the boiler project in Newport. Because we've put in money in previous capital bills. It's not showing up here. We'll make it so, Mary.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Let's mark it up.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: It was just to get some

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thank you, Joe. So

[Rep. Brian Minier]: you're just trying to find that number so we can figure out how

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: much we really need in

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You gotta Yeah. Find out what we've

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: we can track. Right. Go ahead. When I presented on section three, in FY '25, we had 3,500,000.0 in bond funds. On slide 27, we're requesting 2,000,000 in Spanish. Back then, we had expended $342,000 I know we've done additional work on that. How much have I expended out of that? I'm not 100% sure.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So for Newport Boiler, you had 3,500,000.0 prior to FY '26. And then the governor is proposing an additional 2,000,000 in FY twenty seven for 5,500,000.0, and you've expended about 300,000 plus, so you've got 5,000,000 left. And that will have to be done in conjunction with the stormwater. They're kind of go hand in glove. Right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. We have to alter the stormwater ponds with the truck turning radius to get to the boiler.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: How much are you anticipating the Newport project for the ponds?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We're we're just, like I said, looking at the ponds right now and saying they gotta move. We have not designed that So what What it's gonna look like other than we we drew a line on a piece of paper that said if we did this, it appears that the truck turning radius would work for the new boiler building. And now we had to complete that design to actually put contours and lay that out.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So right now you're for in the ponds, to move the ponds?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Have you gotten permit for Newport yet?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No. We're waiting on trying to work this bond issue out before finalizing the permit. Are they allowing you to

[Rep. Brian Minier]: do that with the pond? Yes. Okay,

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: good. Yeah, it's just a matter of having to work it out. Where the ponds are located, it's the between the access drive, the perimeter drive, a wet land, access to the truck trap, and a chunk of ledge other than that. So it's truly a rock and a hard place that we're stuck at. We're trying to make that work. But that's where we're at. We believe we believe we have a plan to move forward on. God bless you, Joe.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So is any of the doc the 5,000,000 that you have left for the Newport boiler project, is that what you're anticipating the cost for that particular project where it's not including anything for the storm water moving around the ponds or anything? It's just for the actual building?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's for the building and the rework of the property, but for the pond, you should be going through storm water. And this is that fine line because they're coming concurrent. I've got a storm water project. I've got a building, but a new building added square footage to three acre rural, so I have to do stormwater. And so I've got two engineers out there, one doing stormwater, the other one doing solar plant. And if you know, representative of the State, I've also got a 31 out there for HQHC, they're gonna do one primary line for the air conditioning system that's crossing paths of what's going on. In New Fork, Springfield we were lucky, we got out of there just about the door control and out of back of HBC.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I'm just trying to think of the cash flow for this. So you're going to have to move those ponds prior to even doing the construction for replacing the boiler.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Or it could be done concurrently if I get the one contractor to

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: get And you can do that without having a stormwater permit in place?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No, I need the permit first, but I still have to finish my design for the building now that I know where the pots are going. But we're looking to have that all in place, permits

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: in

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: hand by June, now that I've finalized the process. This year to be able to start the relocation of the storm water ponds this fall.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You don't know what the cost of that would be for the relocation of the

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: pump? That's true.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And you're still anticipating the cost of replacing the boiler and that whole building at about 5,000,000?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It'll be more than that. I'm not sure exactly what that cost is going to be. I know we've done some work on it. We don't have a construction manager on board yet for that work. But our design, working with the engineer, a square foot takeoff, it appears it'll be better. That's how much I've been saying. But what we're looking to do is to pre buy our boiler so we can

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: get that in the

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: works to get it actually built and delivered on-site by the time our building is constructed.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you would pre buy the boiler in FY twenty seven? Yes. Get the building constructed in FY twenty seven?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I would have most of the building constructed because the size of this boiler will be craning in the boiler through the roof. It's a metal framed building that we're believing we're designing right now. So that'll be relatively simple. Dusters won't be in

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: and we just buy it. So

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: it's timing with the contractor to make all that work, I gotta have the boiler ready to go.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And what's the lead time? I

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: don't know. I gotta believe it's like HVAC equipment.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Where are we, folks?

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: I think we can take 2,000,000 out of this thing all day long out of the whole balance. Yeah. I mean, we don't even have permits pulled, perhaps, these jobs.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: I'm with Gina on that too. You wanna save money.

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: And just you know, that'll that'll that'll, you know, focus on Newport, prioritize these. And if something's hanging in the wind, we'll we'll deal with it when we gotta deal with it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So for the three acre parcel, we have to date put in $1,500,000 in FY '26 and $1,100,000 in '27 for a total of 2,600,000.0.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Well, and 1.5 for FY '24 and '25 as well.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Right. But what's before us in terms of our adjustments

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Troy. Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Is 1,500,000.0.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. I'm just saying that gives us some flexibility to adjust. Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Right. And 1,100,000.0 and 27. So that's a total of 2,600,000.0. So Gina has proposed that we cut them by 2,000,000, which means the total bonded would be 600,000.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Mhmm.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Think that doesn't bother me.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: How a million or a million and a half? Yeah. Just to give a little more leeway here.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I can move it one and a half.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah, mean, I think whatever.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: All right, I can move it to

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: a million and a half.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Million and a half want to cut it, a million and a half want to

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: once, Conor?

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Yeah, can I just ask Joe a question about the two month Pillar projects there? So the three acre rule is the primary benefit is water quality, right? But the added benefit of that is flood mitigation by slowing down the runoff with some of the work you do there. So is is that connected and what kind of base is that moving at for the two Montpelier ones?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: The Montpelier ones are on hold till we figure out what our hazard mitigation is through FEMA, whether or not we can use any of those funds to help offset the storm water. If the answer is no, storm water will go through, but I don't know enough of where my storm water is going to go. There's a limited to parking lots, a little bit of grass in front of the State House where that could go. Depends on what I'm doing with FEMA potentially our lost square footage of relocating her mechanicals up to the 1st Floor. Right now, that's what we put in our hole. I can't make that column. There's no sense designing it until I know what the footprint is. Yeah. Thanks, Chuck.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So I'm gonna ask Scott. If we cut the 2.6 by 1,500,000.0, that leaves us 1.1. Do we zero out FY '26 bonded? Is that how we could achieve that?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: You could do that or you could just reduce FY '26 bonded by 400 and not fund anything FY '27.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Wait, save that again.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: You can do it either way. You

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: zero out FY '27 bonded 1.1 and you cut FY '26 bonded by 400. Okay. Alright. So I do it that way?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Mhmm. It's fine. I like Scott's suggestion. Are

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: we okay with cutting at $1,500,000 for total budget?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yep. So you're gonna zero out 27, right? That's proposed. And make 26,400. 1.1? Or 1.1, excuse me.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We'll give it to you.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's five adults. That's 500. Yep. I can't get that to a post. But you can move some cash to bond,

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: but

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: you can't get bond to dollars unless it's eligible for bonds.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yeah. So you could, for example, if there was something in the big bill that could be defined within the capital bill, could then just migrate over here if it weren't eligible for bonded dollars.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: If you had something in the appropriations bill that could be eligible for bonded dollars, then you could move bonded dollars over there. But it has to be in general fund. It has to be in the appropriations world, but it has to be eligible for bonded dollars.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Understood.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So it's easier to move cash

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Certainly.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Than it

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: is Because of its fungibility? No,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: because you're limited by the feds and state treasury, so what bonded dollars could be used for. It's not fungible.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Gotcha.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay. Let's I was going

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: to say it more.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Art and state buildings. And we had a conversation earlier this beginning of the session that we didn't want to lock in the 75,000 for a specific moving of dollars and projects within the art and state buildings program. We just wanted an opportunity for us to go through markups. So where are we with 75,000 for '26 and 75,000 for '27. Okay. Yep.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: I think the testimony we heard is that there's no project right now.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But they want to use that money to remind me, Troy, it was kind of not the backfill, but to put it towards

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: A bigger project.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: A bigger project.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: They're stockpiling it for

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's a

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: women's it's at Northern, isn't It's at Newport St. Albans.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Newport Potential Courthouse, which I think Yeah. That's what

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it is. That's what it is. Yeah. Yep.

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: They have a project for it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yes. They do. If only we could find the land.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: A good start.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Asa Asa Bloomer, we have put more money into this building.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: You still want Travis?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I'd to be. Yes. I'm certainly on the sewer side of things. That's well underway. There are some funds, but a lot of this here is that 3,600,000.0. We are looking for the sewer projects. Right now, this week, we'll be putting in a temporary roof because it leaks so bad. Oh, yeah. Know, like, comes out of 80 maintenance for

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: the 200,000. But

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: this this roof probably will not, because of the skylight that's gonna be replaced, the added work, the delay of getting off the door properly, will not happen until late fall or falls in here. And so

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: how long

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: does the temporary roof last?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's it's the temporary roof lasts twenty years. Mhmm. It's just membrane roots are that way. They've been I couldn't buy a cheaper roof. If I wanna put out, but that's membranes, the the black rubber is the fastest thing to put down to cover the most square footage.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: And that'll keep it from leaking?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It'll keep it from leaking on people's desks, heads, lots of that. We get it over folks.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: How much is the sewer work? That was the biggie. Right. How much is the sewer work gonna cost?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I don't have a total on the sewer work. They're still underway, but we're coming to the end of that. But I would have to follow back up to the total sealant.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So can you come back with us?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That's all the pictures of

[Rep. Brian Minier]: the guys down, like, deep in the river that looked like something out of Lord of the Rings. Right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. They were down in the the box drains of the sewer, second half of sludge. Yes. Yeah. Thanks.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So if you could come back to us in terms of what the sewer cost is, because right now, I don't know where you are right now, but the testimony at the January was you had 3,600,000. Yeah. And that included the 3,600,000.0 in cash for FY '27.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Think they're showing 3.6 right here.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You've expended 3 That's point what it showed. You had 7,500,000.0, which also includes a 3.6.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: I like the dynamite player.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I like the dynamite too. You had with the 3,600,000.0 that the governor proposed for cash in FY '27, top of the 1.5 bonded in FY '26 and previous appropriations from previous capital bills, After money's been expended, what you showed was 3,600,000.0. And you quote

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I don't know. I'll act I don't know the actual price contract contracts flow for this one.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Could you find that? Because what I have here is you wanna have that completed by the end of this summer on twenty sixth.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No longer is correct to be done.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. So we need to know what that cost. And that would be just for the sewer. You did put in a temporary roof that was $200,000 and that came out of major maintenance. Was that around the skylight?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It was there are multiple additions sort of on on the building. So it was sort of, if you will, one wing of the East And Blue Building. So it goes from existing neighboring building to the sky.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Did it take care of any leaking around the skylight?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No, because the leaking in and around the skylight would have been roughly month and a half ago where the snow sliding off of the skylight builds up and then wicks its way into the skylight. But for rain, for the summer season, we'll be all set

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: for the rain.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. I was really worried we had a snow melt, but we had a good snow melt. Our operations and maintenance team had a very good system of plastic and hoses and falls to direct the water. Working as a team.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, if you could come back at least at a certain cost. Yes. But we don't know what we're doing there. Rutland Multimodal.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: So,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: we put in 600,000 bonded. The governor has proposed another 900,000 in cash. So to date with previous capital budgets, including the cash for '27, We're at 2,100,000.0 and 1.1 of that has already been expended.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We have

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: a million left. And what I had was that for the 900,000, just basically the million, will get us to complete priority items.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Last I heard you were dealing, negotiating with the maximum price? That is correct. Still dealing?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Now we're going move forward. We had to shave over $500,000 to bring in our budget, the funds that we had. So we had taken stuff out of the work that we believe can wait for another year. So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: what was that maximum?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We're working within our budget about the total balance of $1,000,000 million dollars But we've extended it to, yes.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And what did you let go? Do you know?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's called, not really the term of it, but there is a raised concrete slab around the perimeter of where you're parking so that your car overhangs this sort of stop, it's like a curb stop plus, that's deteriorating. And that we had decided just to clean off the broken concrete at this point in time and leave it in place. It's not a structural element. We're focusing And so that we clean that up so that there's no broken concrete or we will be cleaning up. Worst area is not all doesn't go, the worst area is the RT.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Mary, I'll just ask Joe on some of that.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. Okay.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: See you

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: more than that. Remember seeing it firsthand.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay. Fair enough. Where are the spikes?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I don't think there's enough money there to I mean, you leave it alone. Mhmm.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: You wanna take a $100 or something.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: No.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: But The answer there is there's never going to be enough money. Right. Exactly. Right. So that's

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: why you don't steal from the contingency plan.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Right. And this comes in at 1.1. Right. So leave as is, right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yep.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You're joking. The firing range, you touched on that a little bit there, Joe. This is at the Pittsburgh Academy. And we put in 200,000 and f y twenty seven. How far long are you right now? We don't

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: you do with the diamond.

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: I'd say we yanked this one in its entirety and even put this money where

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it if we needed it. Well, this is for training for our officers, which right now can be pretty dangerous because there's no roof on there, and the snow and ice So it was to do the roof. It was to extract lead in the earth bank that's behind it and to have a longer range. That was the goal. And the funds were to complete the design documents.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: They sell construction documents in the works, Simon?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No. We have to start a good

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yeah.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: That's what I'm saying. Why

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: don't we just pull this

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: right now? And then when we're ready to, like, do this project fully funded for design documents and and put some real money in there, it was 200 just sitting there.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you mentioned, Joe, that there's some stormwater issues there as well?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. We have. We have a stormwater permit in hand, ready to go.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Did that anticipate a longer firing range?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It did not. Because where we're doing the storm water, it's not in that area. It's up it's around the main facility. Then we're tackling that. So what what this impact right now is it does rain inside of the building. So it is a pervious roof right now until we put a roof on work. But not knowing exactly what that design is, I don't know what the square footage would need to add to the acreage. And so the reason we were looking for the 200,000 to start is to get the design underway so we actually know what the construction estimate would be for the next planning. I'm hopeful it would be asked.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's been proposed that we zero this out.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: It's bonded dollars. We're going to need those construction documents if we're going to fund this.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: At some point, Troy, I'm

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: just saying, like, let's start looking at the

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: projects that we need to

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: put money into and put plenty of money into those instead of, like, just, you know, construction documents that are gonna be no good by the time we get enough money to fund the project to

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: put the roof on.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: That's what I was afraid of. A lot of times we have to redo all of projects. We end up having to do

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: it over and over again. It's just like, when you're ready

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: to move on, you're going want a half million dollars so they can combine it and build it, send it out the door.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Are folks comfortable with zeroing their cents?

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: I wanna reuse this money on other projects, so I'm not trying to give this money to approach as I cut

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: these things rolling out. Oh, it's bonded. Bonded. Other

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: folks?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Even if it's bonded, though, bonded money could be used to offset 27 cash, too. We're not there yet.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I'm just saying that it could very well be.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: if we pull this and you no longer have the capacity to do construction documents, what does that do for the overall project? Does it delay it by another biennium?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. And so what I would do in the next biennium would be the first half of the biennium, that's for half of the money maybe for the project, for the second half, the balance. I don't know yet what my workload's going to be, so I don't know how to better plan that.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: And if you had this $200,000 for construction documents, when would you contract that?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I would hope to get it out this fall. It would be out for design. We'd have a number ready for the biennium.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: And how long has this project been in the house?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I think we need some planning by a while ago to see if it was doable.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: How long how long why are we And I'm not trying to be

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No. I think it was a year, year and a half ago, I think we evaluated it. No. That's wrong. Sorry. That was Kevin Henderson was still here. Four years ago is when I believe we did an analysis just to see what we could do and what other structure.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Let's see, that's my concern, and I know it's not your issue because you're dealing with the funding and what you can be doing with contractors and that, But I'm afraid we'll keep getting to a point where we're putting money in for plans and different things, and yet the buildings are deteriorating more over four years. So are we really fixing anything?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And I know you are, technically,

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: but are we doing the overall

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Can I get one left, James?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. Go ahead. I was gonna ask if do you have the money for your your aunt?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: For what? Stormwater? Stormwater?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I don't know until you decide how much money in stormwater to give me on what project I can forward with. I gotta go back and evaluate that. The reason I ask is, I mean, we could put this toward that.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Troy?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: We've heard it sort of secondhand on the need for improvements on this firing range for the academy. We haven't heard that from the academy itself, the importance of this firing range. We've heard that

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, if you zero it out.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That's right. We're getting that.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: We've heard that the Academy would benefit from a longer range. And we've heard that winter training, especially when it snows, is impacted right now without a roof. But we heard that secondhand. I think we heard that from you, Joe. Yes. So I'm just saying that's this is for the Academy. I understand. We've been yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, we could zero it out and see what happens.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: See. I'm with Gina, too.

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: I mean, I'm not saying, don't you, right? For now, we're ready to do it to fund it.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Yeah. This won't turn into a wall.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: But we won't know if we can fund it until we have the construction documents.

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: We have to do it. We have to fund it at some point. I'm just saying that, like, let's zero in on less projects and and spend that money in its entirety and get some of these things out of the door as fast as possible because construction costs are just going crazy. They're not up and everything's costing us more. Know? So rather than look for design documents on eight projects, let's get design documents on four and fund those four because it's probably all the way we'll end up pulling off anyway.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Correct.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: It's a question for Joe. I don't really understand what makes construction docs go out of style. Like, what you know, they've been around for a while, and now you gotta do them again. Is that and if so, why?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Code changes. Okay. So when you go out and you, you just do the construction documents and do not move forward with a permit

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Any changes in code then to deplug the ball when you drill back out to bid and get and seek that permit. So if you have the permit in hand, then you're supposed to be doing construction within a year. Oh, yeah. So there are times when that has lapsed and that we do it because the project's been on pause for one reason or another, that growth has changed. It's not a lot. We do try to follow-up person. The whole idea is to a, as you go to spread this out because I can have somebody doing design, working on design while they're also watching a construction project with my project managers. And so that sort of spreads that out and brings something to do doing construction instead of just all construction or all design at once.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thanks. So where are we folks? Zero it out or keep it in? Zero it out and put out a trial for them.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: We'll be having more testimony on this. Just be zero it out. The door's knocking.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: And we'll go

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: to Can we do the right thing and ask for the testimony? We could do that?

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: I would suggest we ask for the testimony because we never got it directly from them.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: There's a roof on it now, like in those pictures. Right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. But as you can see where the sunshine is coming through and hitting the ground Yep. That is where the rain and the snow come in

[Rep. Brian Minier]: And make it slippery and deadly.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Put a temporary roof on it.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Indeed. Can some rubber membrane slam down the

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: Little puddle. Little bitchy thing.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: You can't get

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: inside of the

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: long time ago.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you wanna have testimony on it before we make a decision? Is that what I'm hearing?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yep. Commissioner here.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I don't know. Would it be the commissioner or is it

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Ultimately or it is the director of fire safety

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: who is that?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Mike DeRosier.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So it would be Mike DeRosier or Commissioner Morse. And it has to be ASAP, like tomorrow.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: The 200 ks.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: All right. Moving on. Okey dokey.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Number nine.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Let's keep going. Statehouse.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: This

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: is to deal with the interior of the Statehouse.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: 50 k moving on.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. Thank you. Get there? I wonder if by saying replacement of historic interior finishes might limit it a little bit to what it could be used for because sometimes like, one thing I've noticed going up to the cafeteria on the ramp, Drugs are really getting worn again.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That's what this one is But

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: if you're saying historic interior finishes Carrots are finished?

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: It's not

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: the original Sorry.

[Rep. Gina Galfetti]: Get rid of

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: the word historic. I interior. I think that's sort of what the intent was. David, the curator, needing to match that carpet like we did at two thirds.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I would suggest taking out historic.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. Just kill that word.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Right. I think it's limiting a little bit.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: It was the same pool that we're potentially backfilling with Some sections. April recall? Do you remember

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: this? Remember that? There was a section

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: don't have my hold on. Let me get my notes in very much.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay, State House repointing. Again, that has to happen. That's 219,000. So what have you done so far?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Developing the RFP. Our side is developing a scope of everything that should be permitted and trying to provide enough information for design firms to bid on this. So the project manager's working on that and it's just been going through a couple of renditions.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: So This

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: is to start the design process. It would probably be for schematic design. Maybe a little bit design development to get us in there because of everything that has to be evaluated. The roof, the walls, the windows, the gutters.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Again, how long does this do in the house?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: This started few years ago when we started investigating after repointing the East entrance, finding out that we had a moisture issue, bringing in an individual from Chicago who was very well versed in this type of construction and mortar. We were using planning funds for that and he found a whole slew of things and recommendations for us to be looking forward with. This is going to be a multi year multi phase project. This is millions. Yes.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: This is millions.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's from the the right down. We have no other trades. You gotta fix it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We gotta

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Hey, honey. That we got the.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. That

[Rep. Brian Minier]: that that 2 nineteen's gotta stay.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So $2.19 5, does that that get you through schematic?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. From what I know now, I'm saying that. I hope. Yes. If not, it'll be by the time it goes out on the street and everything else. We'll know more certainly next year as we're working our way through it. Certainly, will the proposals come back in at one moment?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Hopefully, by January 27, your schematic would be done, and then we have a better idea of what to cost. Okay. Keep going. 1 26th Street. Yeah. Then we keep talking about

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: redid that back to you.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That felt too narrowly?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Reallocated. Yeah.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Right there, balance is here.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yep. Thank you.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: You're very generous. Very

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: team. Thank Thank

[Rep. Brian Minier]: you, Joe. You're all right.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: But keep giving.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: That makes us feel a

[Rep. Brian Minier]: little guilty now, so it might

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: work out for you now. Oh, and he

[Rep. Brian Minier]: reallocated the next one too, wow.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Wait a minute.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: There's a balance there.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: In reality, wait a minute. Wait a minute. So you bonded 2,000,000 in FY twenty twenty seven for 120 State Street. It still shows up. 2,000,000. Bonded for f y twenty seven. They didn't reallocate that. We still got 2,000,000 for 120 State Street. You have 2,000,000 bonded in FY twenty seven. You still have 2,000,000 in FY twenty seven.

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: You're joking. And

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: then he was 2,000,000 in the governor's

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Joe, if you do look at the reallocation section, there is a million in cash that we allocated. Both Joe and you are correct.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So there's still 2,000,000 in there for bonded dollars. There's a million in cash that got reallocated.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Over.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: So what does that mean?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So a million in cash got reallocated that then goes to our bottom line. Because I know there's a section in there of reallocations that's cash.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's spent somewhere else. Where exactly, I don't know, because the nature of fungibility, but part of the cash from total is a certain dollar amount, and that all that money has been recommended by the governor on different other levels.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: So we're playing music on time?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay. That's gonna lead that's gonna lead to more conversations with the perps. So who has jurisdiction?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Then but we're still showing $2,000,000 of bonded for '27? Yes. Yep.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Was this even correct?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: But it doesn't show on this slide from BGS that it says nothing for bonded for '27.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Remember there being a typo or something?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It says 2,000,000 for bonded care.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No, you stop it

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: on here. The spreadsheet

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: say 2,000,000 in bonded dollars for

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: But not in the slide. Right.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So that would bring your total to 4,000,000. When are you I mean, we've been funding this for a while. Are we actually gonna are we actually gonna go do we have design documents ready to go out to construction for this project?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We we do not. We've not started that process. The reason for giving some funds back is because as I mentioned earlier, the interaction with the flood recovery Right. How this might play into. Right.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And that's part of FEMA?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It is part of FEMA, which is supposedly gonna be resolved in

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: sixty days supposedly. By the summer.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Right. So we should have a price from FEMA that we're agreeing to be moving forward and then it's going to be exactly what we're doing, but I don't know if it's going to be as soon as 04/28 for more flexibility or work on each individual building.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And 01/2020, because it really wasn't damaged during the flood, but it would be seen as part of the capital complex decision with FEMA?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It would not be part of FEMA's decision. What we're looking at is when we go to renovate that building, what are we going to be doing? Right now, there's multiple different types of hair conditioning systems in that building. We will be doing one system. The part of the thought has been also that while we're doing one system for 120 State Street, does it make sense to maybe pick up 116 State Street for air conditioning because right now that's a lot of window units, four mounted units that air conditioning that building have just from one larger chilling system for that side of the street. The two buildings, I don't know if we would try to go to 110, then you have the other smaller buildings on either side from 106. There has been as we're looking at the whole of their complex rebuild, looking at those greater ideas. Similar to this side of the street, there's a chiller system for 120 10109 State Street, 111, and 133 State Street. Could we better select just one system in one location as opposed to multiple systems?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: For those three buildings. But are all those three buildings, are they all part of the FEMA conversation? 133.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: 111, 133 are all part of.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 110 is. E 116 is. Right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: What's not part of FEMA is 120 and 122, which is the heat plant out there.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And everything else is.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: And the buildings on Wall 2. Right.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But everything's on the way straight except for 120 and

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: So, you know, by looking at it, does it make sense to run or chill water piping to some of the smaller buildings? Probably not, even though we have steam there there's no room in the trench to put chilled water pipes. But it's something that we would certainly look at as a quick design to go is it worth it? And to move it out and then go well that would be a better idea for maybe their own little type of mini system or mini splits that we put in there instead because they're smaller buildings. It all depends whether or not we can able to capture the lost footage due to the gluing mechanicals up to the police report.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Joe, your reallocation is equivalent to the FY23 bond and the FY25 cash for a total of $2.25. To Joe's point, to Joe Luneau's point, you don't have the governor's recommended FY '27 bonded on your calculations here. Essentially, it's a wash, 2,000,000. So what was your intent for To

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: be giving some of those over funds back. Okay. And because we were going to wait and then come back and ask for those funds later once we do. So so

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Is that the 2,000,000 and bonded as well?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Right. That's what I'm getting at. So your intent to pause this project altogether because then we can have a conversation about the 2,000,000 that the governor did recommend and bonded. That's not on your chart. Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Was that a typo or was that intentional?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: So she tricked my other money.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. There was a million in cash that got reallocated.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Brilliant. Right. And then there's a million from another hacking list that we reallocated for a whole money.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: But do you know, was your intent to pause I this think

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: the intent was, I think, to pause the project because we were

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: You're not going forward.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We're to come back when we know more from Finland and how this whole thing will play out.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: And you won't know that through the FY '27 budget? No,

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: it'll be coming in the next fiscal year. So

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: 2,000,000 is up for grabs. That's what I'm hearing.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So what happens if we have an agreement with FEMA this coming summer? FEMA will usually pick up some of the costs, but a lot of that's reimbursable. How do you get going on what are we gonna do with the complex? I mean, there's going to be some policy decisions that are going to have to be made, I'm assuming. And if you start even a design work, where does that money come from? It doesn't come from FEMA. Is it coming from your insurance?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: There's different pots of money and this is where we're gonna have to call back to having the commissioner discuss that as to which fund we start with first. I think they're a dog farm. I don't know if you know,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Big dog But you're going to have some money in the bank to start doing some work, because FEMA isn't going give you the money up front.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Right. So I don't know how that works, but there is, some of the things we've done is being charged to fee for space because then we can pay our bills and then FEMA reimburses us and then it comes to the astronauts. So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: if we zero out this 2,000,000, it's not gonna hurt us going forward with anything with FEMA for 01/20.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. That's true.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So there's 3,000,000 total we're taking from the project. And it leaves you 2,000,000. It leaves you zero. So we want to zero out 2,000,000 of bonded dollars.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 3,000,000 for Wi Fi in DLC. That's what it was last year. Middlesex archives, roof replacement. 1,000,000 did this happen? We put in 1,000,000 in cash in FY24, 1,000,000 in bonds. You did reallocate a little bit,

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: so you left with a million.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: You'd be done on it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Are you gonna get that done this year?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: The market's on the street right now. Pending perfectly, so we have the price ready to go.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Gonna do it this summer? Yes.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Because we do all that, and I wanna do it this summer since we can Okay. Records there. I see.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yep. That's my

[Rep. Brian Minier]: that's my vote. That's your what? Miss representative of South Burlington, do you agree?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Print and postal. 50 cash and our $5.26, the 108, it's pretty minuscule.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: And that's spending money to save money.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We are keeping it. Mhmm. Yeah. Waterbury. We stood for 4,000,000. This is the roof, copper roof. Right? Slate roof.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Slate roof. Slate

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Slate roof.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: This is ongoing. So you've got, with the 2,000,000 in bonds for FY twenty seven, you will have 4,600,000.0. So what are you gonna do with the 4,600,000.0?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We are looking to finish FGH, probably public safety, but it depends how those bids come in. We did very well with bidding a year and a half ago on this project. They came in a lot lower than what I anticipated. We did find some rot that had been addressed, but we've been with the prices that they came in, felt comfortable that this will get most of it, if not all. I'm not sure about tanks. But that'll be if we're coming up short, it'll be in

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: the next day, and we'll we'll make up that balance. Are they leaking now or is this

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: They have been leaking. That's where the rod is coming from that we have not seen. When we renovated that complex after Irene, there was foam insulation that was installed and that foam was keeping the water right close to the yep. You don't see it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Keep the 4,000,000 total?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. And

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: then parking garage, 32. Extra investments. We now put her on.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: The bond. Only need to I the new see we pick it up and move it down here. Right. So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: we've got total bonded dollars is 2,000,000. The governor has proposed 3,000,000 in cash for a total of 5,000,000. So, between previous appropriations and the half million in bond, the twenty seventh, 3,000,000 in cash, 27, brings us to 7.8. They've spent 4.2. I'm rounding this all up. So there's 3,600,000.0 left. What is that going to get us?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Complete the project. Right now, we're a little bit ahead of schedule. We started some demolition elsewhere throughout the project, but if I don't have the funding, I hope to report.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Will we have it completed this fall?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I think it's actually, But

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it's an FY '20 Yeah.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. I

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: would say Keith had. Mhmm.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: At this point, we're

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: at 3,800,000.0 that we've put aside from that first section.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: There won't change.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Just thought I'd throw that number out there.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Just keep it to yourselves.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Okay. Don't say things like that on

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yeah. You're learning. All the other times.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: You're learning. Exactly.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You're learning.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Appropriations has already spent that money. Just someone's listening. Well,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: lot of that is bonded.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: True.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: None of it is bonded. So HSU Human Services,

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: set of slides. What

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: date was that?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: While later you It was kind enough to put it into today's

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: That is correct.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: It's this one. I

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: got it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So I did have it, but I remember

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yep. I have a look at this. Here. Right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: You could share it with me. Water quality? Like, because it's the eleventh.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. And I know I have it. I'm not

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: section through this. Yeah.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. I'm not seeing that number. Oh, that's the bat. This one here, right? It's agency That's January 30 on the front. What

[Rep. Conor Casey]: did you say?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: January 30. But it's capital, still adjustments. Line 20. Doesn't update.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: It's looking at line 20 on our spreadsheet compared to line 20 on slide two. I'm looking at line 20.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: I don't

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: think you have notes.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I'm not seeing notes, but not many.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: I'm seeing I'm looking at the slide. FY 'twenty six bond is $4,000,000

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: FY

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: 'twenty six cash was $9.43

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because I'm told that we have I

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: think seven cash?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: 'twenty six. Oh,

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: yeah, yeah, I see. Oh, yeah, I see. I was never

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I've got the '16.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Oh, it shows a bond in here.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: No F. C. No think

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: that's cash.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Oh, I see. But the slide shows all

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah,

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: that's another Oh, Okay. That's '27 bondage. Where it shows 26 patch in the slide,

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: 20 7 not seeing what

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: you're seeing.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: The numbers are there. The there's a typo.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: They're the same number. It's in the wrong place.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So let's go to HCP human services, DOC, HVAC system. So, the governor has proposed an additional 8,400,000.0, is that right, in bonded dollars for FY '27? There's already 1,000,000 that we put in in bonded dollars. So he's proposing 8,400,000.0 more.

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: Oh, great. Yep.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And proposing an additional 1,050,000 for that, for a total. Negative mass in public. But, anyway, it's about 9,000,000 more. Just gonna be more than that. No. It's about 9,000,000.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: So

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: This is the correctional facility. Right? Do what, Shawn?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Correctional facilities. So what we had today this isn't done right either. So we put in last year in FY '26, 4,000,000. In FY '27, This sheet isn't correct. So the governor is proposing an additional 8,426,000 for bonded dollars in FY '27. This sheet is not correct, but you're not celebrating the FY '27 bond.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: It's cracked on the screen.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You're putting it all in cash. And 9,426 is all that.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I think

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: the numbers are actually

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: '26. That's not right. It's definitely 27 bonded.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yeah, they're not in the right spot on the slide.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: I think the spreadsheet is correct. The slide is not. Right.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's FY '27 bonded. And then there's an additional 1,050,000. So, there's a total that we have to date for HVAC systems in our collection facility of 20,400,000.0. We've expended 8.7. It's 11.6. What I have is There's going to be temporary cooling at Springfield and Newport this summer. That would be in the staffing room, living units.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Southern State Springfield, they will be in a work conference room space in

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: a living unit building that will be there.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: In Newport,

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: given a few other locations.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Those two will be done this summer?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That's already I don't think it'll be ready come near June.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Right. But, like, July or August?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Springfield

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: would be middle of the summer, end of summer.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I can't remember. I didn't bring my notes to it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Excuse you. Thank you. It didn't make sense. So, to do the complete air conditioning, what I have here is Springfield, that's the priority, and then Newport, and then St. Albans and Caledonia are kind of connected. St. Albans. I mean, not St. Albans, Johnsbury and Caledonia, the work camp. So for Springfield, what I have here was to go out to bid in April. Is that still the plan?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Springfield, right now, we just received last week a draft guaranteed maximum price from our contractor, and we are reviewing that. Once we approve that, we will order the pre order the equipment, and I'm not sure how soon it will start work on the piping today.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, and what is the projected cost of that particular project, ballpark? Because I know you're negotiating the guaranteed maximum price. Was it 3,000,000?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I want to say that the multiples were 6. Six?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And what I recall from when you were in here before, the goal is to have that facility completed by the end of the year?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: If our chiller or air handling system comes in on time, yes. But I have no control over that.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: If it's at the end

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: of the year, it'd be later in the year, it probably would not be in place certainly for it to be used unless there is a a unit sitting in some place that is in ship.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So there'd be no air conditioning throughout the whole facility for this summer, but there would be in the '27? And Newport is next. And are you gonna be doing work doing design work or anything for Newport within that 8,400,000.0? Or is the 8 point Is the 8,400,000.0 gonna get you through Springfield? Because I have a note here that the remainder is not enough for Springfield to complete.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We will get through Springfield. It's where they're not gonna have enough funds to complete before. So these funds here that have been expended is also encumbered funds with our contractor that we had in place to stop that because it starts to construct a pre construction work of each project. So that gives our construction manager in under ways talking to their subcontractors, getting better pricing, get the work done as proposed by what was proposed by the design team. They look at it and say, you know, this could be a higher cost for one reason or another and this would be a better route for you to go. Design team analyzes it, we discuss it, and pick one way or another. Because sometimes contractors doesn't understand our full scope of what they would want. So it can be a better way at times. Sometimes it's switching mechanical equipment. We at BGS have gotten great experience over the years of trying not to put in equipment that we did not maintain over the years so that, you know, even though it may be less expensive by a contractor, we would shut up refund.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So the yeah. So 8.4, that's what your balance is gonna be. Now I got the wrong shape. It's 11.6.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Yes. Mhmm.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Sorry. I was looking at the wrong one. So the 11.6 will complete Springfield. You could get started on Northern?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. Not far along I have now. We're still at a set of drawings in front of me or last, and we're looking at how to bring power to the air conditioning units. Right now, existing building power, there's not enough of that equipment to hand over the load for the air conditioning equipment on the generator. We have a similar problem in Springfield that it will not be able to work on your generator power. Way Springfield's designed different than import, Springfield has primary power inside the facility and we get to tap that and use that. In port, the primary is outside the facility and so we will be tapping in one or two locations. One of them brings a new pole to the edge of the perimeter road, we trench across to one of the buildings to bring the power in, the other one is where our transformer is, gets closer to the Admin A2 Building where our maintenance shop is, and coming through there on a trench to one of the buildings to bring the power in.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's not going to impact anything with the boiler project or those ponds?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: The route that brings us in where we put a pole near the perimeter road and in, yes, we'd be crossing roughly right over our stormwater, but missing the heat Because of that, our storm water bombs would be in place in advance power to come in,

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: and that power is overhead that goes over

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: the stormwater ponds, so that would not impact the pond. It's just bringing when you're looking at total site security, we're bringing a pole closer to the perimeter fencing road than probably what I would like, but it may be our best option to do that as opposed to digging up and trenching from the existing transformer. If you know the site that's up by the truck trap is in between A2, and we'd be coming down around BCI 1 all the way to B Building. So there's pluses and minuses in both plans. We haven't selected yet, but that's part of this design review that we don't do.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So where are we as a committee?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Full steam ahead.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Full steam ahead.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Can you put anything? I can't see you here.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Let's leave it deep.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Accessibility upgrades?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Kill them.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Oh, that was ugly.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: This is ADA compliance. Does this finish it up at all the 29 finishes?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes, we will be done at all three locations.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: At all three, but what about for the whole system?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We were the settlement was only at Southern State, Northern State, and Chittenden. The funds that we didn't ask for are actually concerned with those two seats.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. So we keep that. Mhmm. Safety upgrades, two twenty five, 200. We put in, last year, put in $2.25 bonded, 200 bonded, and the governor is recommending an additional $2.25 in cash. And that gives you $6.00 6. That's for safety and security upgrades. And it would include security cameras, secure fencing, suicide prevention efforts, compliance with and replacing ventilation grills, bumps, stools and tubes. This is kind of an ongoing project.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. This is sort of not really major maintenance for corrections. Corrections are the ones who select the projects for this fund. And they're the ones that you know they need another camera over here that would come out of major maintenance or

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: any of

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: the fund that

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: we have, so that's what this fund is for. If they've had a potential escape or something like that, they need additional fencing, they said this fund here pays for that additional fencing.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So why is there an increase of 225,000 over the 200 in FY twenty Because corrections is beyond.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: They are realizing that children's are a wonderful thing but they don't have enough of them. Thinking you never have enough once you know the blind spot that's just it. Then they're at another camera. There were cash. I think they did not get it from me. I believe I missed a year or two. So I think they're

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: just about how to do that. Where are we folks? Leave

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: them on.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Door controls in Rutland, half 1,000,000 and bonded at 27. And they are next in line to do all the upgrades for doors, lights, cameras, fence, perimeter intrusion detection system, the whole gamut.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Yeah, this will complete the design?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Are we doing the work?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We do.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Just to complete the design?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We are now presently working with the construction manager on the construction at sort of at York Northeast Regional Corrections. Then it was

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You're gonna move money between the two, right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: You gave us language to do that. That means that once we were done with Northeast Regional, if there were funds left over, we could then move to Rutland for those funds. And then when we put capital up together, there's a $2,700,000 dollars that's under statewide door controls. So we'll be able to if they were looking to do, instead of just saving out each facility in their languages or providing initial language, we could then move to the next facility if there's funds left over or use them.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So between the total 3,600,000 in Saint Jay for door control and the half million in Rutland, you're moving them between each I mean, whatever is left in Saint Jay will be applied to Rutland.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That is correct. And then if there is no doubt. If there was funding left over in Rutland, then you go to the next site. And I have to work with contractions to find out what is the next site. It's either St. Albans or Chittenden.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: And we're breaking enough money to do one each then?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Probably not other than start maybe start with some.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You won't know that until that's December.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That is correct. By next December you make it?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: This coming yeah. For next budget year. Is

[Rep. Conor Casey]: there any logic in merging a few of these lines just

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: to Yeah, get more I'm kind of wondering too. I would merge St. Emmons and St. Jay.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I'm hearing the word function.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I mean, Saint Jay and Reverend.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: '23 and '24? Yeah.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: What about twenty seventh Yeah. Or

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: It's all door stuff. Yeah. What is '25.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Put our whole I haven't done that far. So Let's see. The door control down on funds '27, that's 2,700,000.0 in cash. So, this would put in the systems that in were Newport and Spring. So would any of this 2.7 go towards St. Johnsbury and Rutland?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Not knowing the price tag yet for St. Johnsbury, I'm not sure. We definitely go for Muller. We didn't cap this for St. John's Burry.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What happened with all these?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: What happened with what

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: else? No. So now

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: the record. I know what happened. Okay. How many for these facilities, which facility is going to have to relocate incarcerated folks? Is there gonna be any relocation in Newport or Rutland?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Newport's complete. So it's Saint John's It's St.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: John's Ferry, that's fine.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Presently, they had have been able to absorb them into the system without having to send them out of state. So we've been able to get a pod at a time. And that is still the intent going forward. There would be up to corrections to have that crystal ball when we're going out to construction if they can empty a unit. The units are smaller in both St. Johnsbury and Rutland. So when that comes out of way, that's a high probability. But I never know because I, you know, it's a day to day head count. But that is our intent. We have funding in here to cover additional offices because of that, as opposed to what we did when we first did Springfield, we had expedition funds to house The United States. Correction was able to pull that off, that you can move enough people around for the international officers. And so that went to covering their costs and that's how we've been doing it to date. I won't know until I think we have an actual construction date, which is there. The intent certainly is to keep them in shape.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So right now, you've got the door controls for Saint John Saint Johns Ferry and the work camp, you've got 6,700,000.0. And then you add another half million for Marble Valley to this. So, you get 7,200,000.0. And then, there's an additional 2,000,000 being added on top of that.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Can we code 2,000,000? Think about that first.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And the 6,700,000.0 that they have currently. We'll get them through Saint Johnsbury and the work camp, and whatever is left would be put towards Marble Valley on top of that 500,000. But you would have to do some design work for Marble Valley, or could you actually do the construction?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: The work at Marble Valley is, I'm sorry, the building of Marble Valley is very similar to St. John's Parade. There will be some minor design changes, but a lot of that design work, the footprint's almost identical. So I'll just say, you know, some of the power panels and the likes of that were in a different location, power's different, so this kind of has to be evaluated. We haven't started that yet. But it's the design of Rutland is not going to be as expensive as the Bolt Street Johnson.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Could we cut a million in two? So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: you cut a million out of the two and that leaves you 1,500,000 go towards Marbleville.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Where is the two?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's on cash online. 27.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Oh, I thought we were talking about like 0.3.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 0.7. $2,700,000,000

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: But are

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: you merging this? Are you merging lines? No.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Line 24.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Go to lines 27. FY 27 cash fund, the governor's adding $2,600,000 on top of what's already being appropriated for lines twenty four and twenty five.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: I get that.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: So, okay. So, Mary, you're proposing to change line 27 Yeah. Point seven cash for FY 27 to two even. Is that what you're saying?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You would take I'd take two.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. And to leave it at 700?

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: A lot of money.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Do we need language is what I'm suggesting to merge those line items? Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's a lot of money.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: So you're proposing to leave that line at 700 cash.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But you got right now, you've got lines 23, you got half 1,000,000. And then Saint Jay, you got 3.6. So right there, you've got 4,100,000.0. And you can get Rutland, you can get St. Jay in the work camp. And then what's left over, you put towards Rutland. And you've got an additional 700 that you could put towards Rutland if you've got the 2,000,000.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Mhmm.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: So I would say there's a 2,000,000 or 1.5.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: 2,000,000, I think.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I would go to,

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: like 18, but I didn't Yeah.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: I wasn't even questioning. I was making sure I understood what you're saying. You would adjust that line to what we're getting before they're amalgamated to 700.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yep.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Sounds like a plan.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you would have a total of 4.1 plus 700. You would have 4,800,000.0 for door closing. That's a lot of money.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: So it may be a lot of money, but that's what we've been spending in the past if not more.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: How many more outside of Rutland will we get left to do?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We have Chittenden and St. Albans. I think St. Albans would be the most expensive because of the attic situation.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah, was

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Sort of like AC but it's due these door frames are embedded into the clock results so once that door frame is bent it has to come out and be replaced. You don't get a complete door control system if the funds aren't there for that. And how

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: long does it take to do a facility like St. Jay or Marble?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Depending on the amount of work and the amount, like, replacing the concrete doors, it's it's hard to say because I

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: don't have to have don't it.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Much has to be done? So it's a hard part. But it's a but a good part of a year plus at times to be So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: come January, you're gonna know where we are with you'll have St. Jane work camp done, possibly or do you

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I won't have it done but it'll be well underway. We have to So start that is where it is, but let's say start, they want to keep going, but it's not a thought that Right,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: so you'll be doing construction at St. Jay in the work van. You'll know what the bids come in for that. And at that same time while that construction's going on, you can do the design documents for Rutland. Yeah.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Would be exactly what you're telling me.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But you wouldn't actually go to out to bid for Rutland and put the machines on it.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Correct, because I would need to design in place so I know my funding. What did I have left over from St. John's period? Some of that stuff, depends on what they are, you can share it in advance. But without the whole design package, don't know. And what that additional mass is going to be next year.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You did a job banking too, Mary. So we will combine, and we'll do this in language, and we'll do this on a spreadsheet to combine the door controls, and then we'll list out St. Johnsbury and Rutland.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: About twenty three and twenty four, go with 27, is the language. That's Well, do you understand me?

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: John Grafts, Letter Center Council. Just so I'm understanding, we're gonna be talking about two different sections of capital builder here, right? We're talking about sections three, which is your AHS appropriations and bonded dollars and your cash fund section. They're already separate anyway. And under Section three, BDS will already have the authority to transfer and extended balances between projects consent section. Correct. I think you're good, is what I'm saying. The cash appropriation that's set out in section 17 has stated that a sufficient level of generality to capture both projects, something like store control upgrades at state direct home facilities. You could add in that you'd want to specify those to, but you've already captured them.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you're going to structure the bill itself with a separate section for cash? Yes. That's what John is saying. Not the spreadsheet, I don't believe, but the language in the bill, there'll be a separate section completely, the cash.

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: Exactly, so I wanted to make sure that we were talking about the same thing, because I understand the cost of the spreadsheet, but that kind of merging would not be possible within capital bill itself, essentially,

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: because we

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: already have separate sections, and this is an amendment to the existing capital budget adjustment.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So what you're saying is we don't need to merge in the capital section on section three. We really don't need to merge the same Jay and Robin because they already have the authority to move money between. And then when it's in section the cash section at the end of the bill, it would be the amount for door controls. It would be $7,700,000.

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: Exactly. And it would be available to both of those options.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: That's fine.

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: It's on happy.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Happy. Don't know

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: how to speak, but I'm describing something happy.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I can see it. I can

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: see There's a twinkle.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Sun being coming through the ceiling.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay, so Newport. Correctional facility in Newport is the beginning of a sprinkler system for a half a month. Now I'm assuming that

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: I missed the Albans roof.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Did I miss that Saint Albans? Oh, I'm sorry.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: No. This is this is a different place.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. Saint Albans. I'm sorry.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Oh, god. We're used to it up there.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: No. But this is so

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: tight this is so tight in with the booking area in some ways. And I know we did some language or moving money around last year for

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: this. So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: where are we with Saint Albans?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Need our contractor to sign these dogs somewhere else.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What was that again, Joe?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We need our contractor to sign the contract. It has been done and then we're ready to go. They are anxious to start work. The reason they're hesitant is because there is an ad alternate for unit square foot price because of the type of roofing it is. It's called a protective roof for the hardboard. Protective looks like shredded weight. It is structural, it's also an insulated higher value to it. So it makes it for a great fit, but there is a harder board on top of it that the roofing is actually nailed into. That square foot ad that we're doing is very expensive. It almost doubles the amount of the contract. The contractor was like, well if we don't need it, I hate to write a contract for that because there's bond in cost. And it's like, but it's what we need just in case because I can't take part of it out. So we're expecting him to sign hopefully for the next week or two, and then we'll get the equipment. We'll be up there working on the roof this summer and potentially even completed this summer. They want to get in and get out, and we will not be doing any of the roofing that would impact the entrance, the booking or admin entrance, because we know that that is in the near future also. Yep.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So is it still replacing 10 roofs?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I did my math right.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's what it says on the chart So is the 2,300,000.0 gonna complete that project? Yes. It completes that project. Yes. Onward. So where are we with the booking area. Because that's been going on since 2022. I see

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: a planning document that had suggestions that was the way to go. All options were more than what we could afford early. They were very expensive. A situation that made it more expensive was angling the garage selling port so that you could have sort of a drive thru situation so that the people delivering the individuals get a vehicle from drive thrus and having backup and cross track everything. That just added more expense to the crowd. I believe that the design team add additional, more than enough square footage and more areas than needed for office space and more of a reason to it. We're reevaluating that. Once that is complete, we'll complete the schematic design and do the design documents.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So how much money do you have in the bank for that project? Do you know? Because we've done that.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We've done that. We did that '22 and '23, '24, and '25. And I just don't remember. And you'll find out. Be back to us how much is there. Another booking. And that booking area needs to get done

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: because

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: that's where all the folks from the Northwest part of the state, males, go through. And there's what? Four beds there, maybe? I just wanna know what we've got for booking And more of the time frame, we hope, with that project. Anything else on the roofing or the booking?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Fingers crossed.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay. Sprinkler system, Northern State up in Newport. Half a million. And this is new. This would be for design documents I'm anticipating and maybe some of the work?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: And maybe some of the work. Yes. The hard part is, like, what I had shown you in the presentation was a rusted pipe. Right. Because it's a dry system that water can sit in all the low spots. It's really trying to find out where all those low spots have been designed. It's the pipes are already there, the drawings are there for the pipes, it's just a matter of them saying these are the areas that have to be replaced. How much of that documenting that for them?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Would you get that done in FY '27?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I think we could, yes.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Keep it in, folks?

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Skip down to '28. Here we go, the boiler. 2,000,000. We've We've funded this in the past. We've pulled the money out. We've funded it in the past.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Is it going anywhere?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 3,500,000.0 we've put in in FY '25. And there's 2,000,000 being requested in cash FY '25. So there'd be a total of 5,100,000.0. So what's that 5,100,000.0 gonna get us to?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I have not done enough square foot cost of what the building is going to cost us along with the borderless act. Want to say it's most of it, but I don't really know. And so we're completely moving building around and what we have to do. So what we had to evaluate and everything was the play that I had shown you was our best possible location based on the existing site and everything else. We're fixed on that now, we're going be moving forward and I'll get into the greater design detail so that it's roughly a building that's a slab on grade so that when we are backing in the trucks it's at that same elevation because we're in the Northeast Kingdom that will be a five and a half foot defrost wall. And then it's a metal building on top of that on the yard side it's an AD concrete or block wall because that will become our improvement. We can work for tight for space. We don't do the work, the wood boilers, well we're not operating on wood right now, our wood stack is to collapse. That's a runaway and if we don't build this we could potentially stay on well if there's a problem with the wood below this or would be being able to find perhaps ready to do the wooden slab brand.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But you're planning to order the boilers, right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes, absolutely. They can come in and they can have a concrete slab in place ready to go to accept it with

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So why don't you move the ponds?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: The ponds first. So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: what's the 5,100,000.0 that you've got now? Is that gonna complete the project, do you think, for the boiler?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: The more normal American saying it will. So I don't know enough information right now. I'm hoping that, you know, worst case 80%, something like that, but until I complete the design documents, I'm not 100 sure. We are having to shift the truck trap a little bit. We're up against our main primary power line coming in the building, and without physically locating that,

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: it's about 100% sure.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: And this is likely to start in 2027?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Late

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: fall. Of this year?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Late summer, fall of this year for the ponds to be relocated and ordered the boil.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Alright with this?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. Yeah. Put my faith in you, Joe. You're

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: welcome. Yeah. And I also wanna know. Wanna so '29. This is the new juvenile center. You were going out to bid. Have you gotten those bids back?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Invoice get bid?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: They went out to bid. It's a design build. So depending on who bid on it, we will determine where it might be built. The issue is not necessarily that. It's who's going to operate it. But there's some issues around that.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I don't have that side. I only have exceptions.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I know. But we gotta coordinate both sides.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: So we don't have to.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, we're working on it. You went out with an RFP, right?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We went up for an RFP. We have a design builder in line, have conversations with them to evaluate the costs as we have presented it. We do not have an executed contract yet for the design. What we had done this time around, which was a little bit separate than when we were doing for GEMS, is we will be executing a contract for the design. Plan so we can control easily the payout at each phase as it's completed. And then we will go into the lease for operating and construction. But we're still in that negotiating phase right now of

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: the cost. So I know we've reallocated dollars from this before, so I don't know what you had in hand the date prior to the 07/2000. Because I know we reallocate. Because at one point we were going to build, and then we decided we weren't going to build. We were going to go out to bid for a design build. I think we had $3,000,000 We reallocated some of that. We need a little bit less.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I don't recall.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: ARFK.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's not I don't think this gives it back to somebody. Yeah. It's We're not a lot.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. So what is the 700,000 gonna be used

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It'll be used to help, I think, with the design portion of this project. Need a balance paid for either to get to the lease.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So are you, BGS, still working with DCF in terms of their proposal was originally a campus style where there was a building with rooms for acute folks stabilizing and then other buildings for step down housing and rehab and educational programs as well. Is that still the plan? Do you know? Yeah.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's still a plan. We're just still working with DCF that's how I would say in the last, I think we ended up the end of the of the Jan's in the same. Soon soon as as and certainly by having five separate buildings the cost is greater to be reduced or to be reduced together without changing any of the operations.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And the lease payments to the developer will be coming out of DCFs, operating budget. So, John, we're gonna need some language in coordination with House appropriations and in coordination with House human service. Because there's some issues percolating out there, in your world, but it's tied into how far along BGS goes with the proposed developer because there's questions that the other folks are having on the policy side in terms of who is DCF, what is DCF going to contract out with, and what is the cost out there. And what they're seeing now for the cost is in Middlesex, there's four beds. That's what River Valley, is that what that's called? That's where the

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: River Valley, I'd Spaddy, Red Clover.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's costing DCF about $2,800 per day, per person, They per are also putting online down in Brattleboro, which used to be the old Vermont Yankee with the sheriffs and they're contracting out a separate entity there, I believe. I don't think it's the same one at Red Clover. But what Human Services and Appropriations is hearing is about 4,400 per kid per day.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Where is that?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Brattleboro. Vermont Yankee.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Building building?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I have three or four beds in there.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: They have buildings on?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. It was the old Mount Yankee. Was the

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: It's a training building in the office, whatever

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it is. Undergoing That's renovations for three years.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: What's been for that?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: DCF or some of the renovations. That didn't come out of BGS. I came out of DCF. But there's three or four beds. And what they're hearing for cost is about 4,400 per bed

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Per day.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Per day.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Which is insane. So that's a Woah. Woah. Wait a minute here. If we do this resident, this bigger one, which we don't know how many beds we're looking at. How many beds are we looking at for the new facility total? 14. 14? They need to figure out, are we still gonna contract out for the operations of that? Or is it gonna be cheaper to move state employees?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: And there's been wariness around the provider, too, right? There's been wariness around the provider, too,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I think. Well, they don't know who the provider would be either.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That provider

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But they have to go out to contract. They can't get an answer from DCF.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: But that provider's out of state, the one

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: who's charging this $4,400

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: a Well,

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: day and it's

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: an out of state provider as well for up at River Valley. I don't think it's the same provider as the one down at Brattleboro. I'm not sure on that. But one thing I suggested to the chair of human services this morning, because we talked about this, we should have language in the capital bill for this project.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: It's Sentinel in Red Clovis. Sentinel And

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I don't think that's the one for down in Brattleboro. It's a different one. That there needs to be check ins from both BGS and DCF to Joint Justice Committee over the summer and fall on the progress here, because one will determine the other. We don't wanna get into going too far down the road with BGS, the negotiations with the developer, if we don't know what the policy is gonna be with DCF in terms of how we're gonna pay for operating this and who is going to operate this.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: The chair of the committee know that those answers

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: know that they're trying to get the answers. They're trying in appropriations to get the answer

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: and they're trying to facilitate together with that information. No. Wow.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: West River Haven in Brattleboro, different provider.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's a different provider.

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: Three beds.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Three beds. So they're trying to get information from DCF, that not able to. We're in this position of going forward to try to get a facility built. You can't really build a facility till you know what you're actually doing policy wise and what the cost of that spend is. So if we could have some language that kinda ties all of this together and all these different bills, and I suggested to the chair of the human services that DCF and BGS would need to check-in with justice oversight during the summer and fall as to the progress or lack thereof so that Justice Silversight could weigh in. You might wanna talk to Katie McLennan on this, John, because she's been working on this.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Together to actually come to a plan before just having them come back with their own ideas of not really knowing what's what we can and can't do.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Joe, is there one potential site right now for this facility?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. There's one site. And when will we know? A block or so, they didn't allow the contract in place.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And we need to be clear what this $772

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: and $55.55. They really needed a to the design.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Go towards the design?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yes.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Maybe we don't release it till we know what's going on.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: It's going to be my suggestion. I don't see how we can be funding something.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So when you say go towards the design, that would be BGS working with DOC? I mean, with DCF? Yes. So I think the language should, justice oversight, they would need to work with BGS design and their coordination with DCF on that design will be one piece for that. And where in the process they are and what the design looks like so that that committee can vote in on that. It's not to tie your hands, BGS. It's to make sure that you BGS doesn't And DCF is, like, saying something completely different to the policy committee. That seems to be happening. We don't wanna delay this project, but we also wanna make sure everybody's on board and knows what cost is going to be. Because if there's a situation, the policy gets made somewhere, wouldn't be us. There are policy committees and appropriations committees that may make the determination. We don't want contract out for services, we wanna do it in house with state of the art. And that's a whole different ballgame and a whole different conversation. But we don't wanna have a problem with BGS being too far in advance. We're not getting the proper information and then they design something and then have to go back to the drawing board. You do? Things change as we go along. And I would question 772 557.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That's not a good enough number? Would you like it rounded?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: No, they needed to round something, so that's where it went. Between that and major maintenance, that's where it went.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: I was thinking 542 for the blood. A little sense?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So that one I would flag, because that one's going to need a little bit more work. But you're not going to know you won't be able to come public with who you're negotiating with or anything for about a month.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: You're having an evening broadcast. Is that the April?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: April. Conference. Ben?

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: That's what I'm not understanding. How do you have a contract before you technically appoint?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: They have a plan, they just don't know who's going to in DCF, Who's gonna implement it? Are they gonna contract out for services? They don't know where it's going to be. Well, that's up to the RFP out there with a design build because the developer has the land.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That's correct.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Developer has the land. And the developer will be building the building on the land, and then we lease back the building. With maybe an option to purchase in twenty years or maybe not. And so then that contract gets negotiated. The reason you do a design build, you take pressure off the capital bill to build it, but you're putting pressure on the appropriations piece because you gotta pay that lease payment with the general fund. So you're gonna be increasing the state budget to save on the cap. That's the trade. So let's keep plugging for ten or fifteen more minutes. Flip the page.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: These big sections, Dawn.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Yeah, those are the big sections.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Farmers and community development, major maintenance at the historic sites. What do we wanna do with our major maintenance?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: State historic sites?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. The state historic sites. Yep. They're always in need.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: They're they're beyond in need. I mean, there are sites that just don't get any attention because there isn't enough money.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Here's my tears.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: And, frankly, and if we have Florida here at some point, I don't think it's for this year, but at some point, there is it needs to be an earnest conversation. Is there gonna be more money, or are the sites that we just need to dissect ourselves up because we're not curators of them.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We've had that conversation. That's all. Alright.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: That's that's a good Like, I'll pick on, you know, Chester Arthur, Vice Chair of the District. And it's not even it's a replica building. But it gets no attention. From what I understand, it's not one of the more highly visited sites, but there are other sites as well that just I mean, that funding level, you simply can't maintain all the sites at an appropriate level.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What would folks like to do? Information on their documents here.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: I don't think you need to worry about them banking excess bondage No.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I'm worried about it. I wanna make sure that there's enough there to get through what projects they're planning on, because there was no adjustment. So we're okay keeping it as we have it. Yep. Underwater preserves. Yeah, it's pretty stable. I have asked Troy's fiscal to take a look at the 3 Bs, 2,500,000.0, that's cash, see how much is where that went, where it's gone, if there's anything left. Roadside markers, there's an increase that the governor has proposed of 20,000. That was to take care of, they've had a big increase because of the two hundred and fifty year anniversary. They've had a big increase, and that's what that is to go towards.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: I think you were kicking that out some reclaims on April.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: To me, it all goes on the bottom line. So does that stay? Yep. And then the Bennington Monument.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Not saying a word.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 04/25 we put in last year to also, that went with some previous money that we reallocated for them to do study to figure out how we move forward.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: So do you have any news for us?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Do have any news?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I'm going down to Washington DC and taking a tour of the party to Monument Theater and what they do inside because

[Rep. Brian Minier]: I can't get any information

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: out of out of Ballon's office. They're not getting back to me about how they what they do with mechanicals and Bennington. I mean, in in Washington.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I thought you would do that during a temp meeting break. No. No. That didn't happen.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Didn't you try

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: That's too sick.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Tried people. That's too sick.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I haven't tried Welch, but they're they're because of the government shutdown

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Right.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: They're really, like, dragging their feet about getting any information out of

[Rep. Brian Minier]: the Washington Monument. But I'm

[Rep. Conor Casey]: just gonna get out. I can go

[Rep. Brian Minier]: and take pictures and talk to

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: the guys there, and I'll figure it out.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Can you

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: get into it?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Sure. They

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: they they they have a Vermont Mechanical. Vermont Mechanical. Maintains train air conditioning systems is willing to look at the mining. And they've asked for drawings of the mechanical and the electrical and the plumbing. So they can say, If we were gonna fix your humidity problem, here's what it would take, what kind of equipment we could put in to keep the moisture down. So I need to ask that question of the appropriate person to get those specifications to them. So is historic preservation, they worked

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: in Wood Vermont with, what is Yeah. It

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We just called them.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I just called them offhand, but they're already doing work in Bennington, other locations. So they're familiar with doing government business. They just weren't familiar with the mining. So they visited, they

[Rep. Brian Minier]: see

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: what it is. Now they need a little bit more detail about

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: They need some drawings

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: from us. They need some drawings.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: Which I'm sure they exist. So Right? Joe, there's there's drawings of the monuments.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: And the whole thing, talk about Yeah.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: It's six ways to send that.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Right. Who should I send that kind of request

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Yep. Ship up. Yep.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So should we put in any language pertaining to the monument in terms of what we'd like to see? Data or steps going forward that need to be met? So can help us make a decision going forward, alternatives that we want to look at. What are people thinking?

[Rep. Conor Casey]: I feel like such a layperson on this still, but I would barely even know what they asked for to help me. Yep. But maybe if the subcommittee was wrestling with some ideas there, it's a So there was you and Shawn, and was it Mary?

[Rep. Brian Minier]: There's only three or four of these structures in The United States. One of them is 10 south of here and sits on the National Mall. I was hoping that some people could help us from our Delegation. Delegation, and I'm not getting anywhere. I reminded the guy a couple times, and I'm not getting any love from balance office,

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: from the guy who does that for a living.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's frustrating. Stop the secret. They don't want to.

[Rep. Brian Minier]: It's not it's it's a it's an air conditioning, some kind of system. They they shut the thing at night. They they have an enclosed building, which I am in favor of. I think that's the way to do it. Put a door on it, put windows on it, put AC and heat in it, and call it good. That would be the least expensive way to go. Run it for a year, and I bet you we would get our humidity down, heat up, the thing would start to dry out, then we can replace the elevator in the stairs inside, it would be easy.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: Well, and again, we asked if any of the data, they had not historic preservation had not gotten any of the data that we've paid for.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Right. No.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We have all that.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We now have it. Yeah.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Get all that. But it's like a chart that looks you gotta have to be, like

[Rep. Brian Minier]: you know, it's hard to read. It's nothing that I'm comfortable, like, telling you, like, anything about.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: What did you get from us?

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: She gave it to us, you know, a month ago.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: Question is what do you do? It's gonna get humid, then it's gonna dry out.

[John Graff (Legislative Counsel)]: Right.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: It's gonna get humid, then it's gonna dry out. It doesn't tell you what to do to fix the problem.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: But your guys, I think,

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: are gonna

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: be able to tell us.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: So I don't like to overpromise, because I think if we got them some drawings, they could come back with some ideas, because their salesperson would love to do

[Rep. Brian Minier]: a system Nothing more than to hook us up a training system.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: With the trained people, and I bet you they'd love to give us a proposal.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: And you're not talking $50,000,000.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: We don't know that. 40.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: That's not what you're saying. 40. Sorry. Sorry, Mary. 40.

[Rep. Mary A. Morrissey]: No. That's Perhaps. Perhaps. Yeah. But, again, that was a number thrown out without even having a plan of doing Jack's block. I mean, so

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: This would be a much more affordable way to fix it. So I don't know what to ask Laura other than she's been very helpful with us, though. Every time she shows up under the request Been nothing but helpful.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: And see what they come back with.

[Rep. Conor Casey]: And Right.

[Rep. James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: I would imagine that Vermont Mechanical can say, hey. You gotta seal the whole thing off, you got to install three chillers of its sides. But if you run them twenty four hours, seven days a week, it's going to cost you X number of dollars a year. That's the kind of business they do all the time.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: And then I I I don't recall. There's no new money proposed in '27, but is there any existing money left from '26?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: No. Well, that went for the report that and we put that money towards with previous month. So it was, like, $5.50 total for this study. We did some reallocations, and it matched money that they already had. Yeah. Yes. The $4.25 is

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: Yeah. I remember that. I just

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And that was supposed to be for a study so that we would have a better idea on how we were gonna move forward. And are they still in the process of doing that study? Nobody knows?

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: I'm not sure exactly where we are.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Why don't you three reach out to Laura again and see where we are with this? Good. Okay. We're gonna put here in a few minutes. Building community grants, I think we're all supportive of this. But for me, there's something percolating with the Franklin County deal voids that you you know, you have to look at. Right? Mhmm. And what should we do? Who do we need to get after this?

[Rep. Conor Casey]: Well, we'll stop because we want to figure it out.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: One thing that we need to do, and I need a conversation with the group.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: We need people from AG, from the program.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Ag and transportation. There is repo. If you could look at the building community grants language and statute, there is a time limit for reallocations of projects. If dollars have been appropriated to a project and it hasn't gone project hasn't gone out, that money has to return. Franklin County field days is buffing up to that. And also, Scott, if you could also work maybe with John. We put in some language in previous capital bills. I think it was probably in '24 maybe, '24 session, that we allowed them to extend part of that if it went towards a specific purpose. And I know we've put in language, I think, in the capital bill. And it might have been 'twenty four session. So if you can

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: I'm speeching because

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: They're bumping up against Franklin County field days is bumping up against that time frame.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: I think that once we figure out on the state side, we've maybe have them come, field days come, Maybe, maybe not. But my understanding, I think Joe's just as well that it's only they right now, have a two year lease or something. So we gotta find out that detail as well.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: And because the lease is the right to buy, and there may or may not be needs to be determined if there are any concerns with the host municipality and that proposed land use on a long term basis. And I don't think that that's 100% determined.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we need to know and Scott, this is where you

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: can We do

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: need to know how much money from the building community grants the ag fairs have gone to Franklin County over the past six years?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Yeah, it's a May up until three years, and it's a shall reallocate after three years.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's a May after how many years?

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: It's a shall after three. May until then.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Let me

[Will Anderson (Department of Finance & Management)]: go on with this, Raven.

[Rep. Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Notwithstanding 32 VSA, whichever if after an entity awards grant funds under this chapter, the funds remain unexpended and not subject to a grant agreement, the entity may reallocate the unexpended fund within its grant programs within three years of the original grant award date. Any expended funds remaining after this three year period that are not subject to

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: a grant agreement shall be deactivated after three years.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, Scott, we really need to see how much money has been put towards Franklin Field days. There was some stipulation. Because I remember I sat down with the Franklin County delegation. Biggest go ahead. And we made a decision there in terms of putting in language because they had some money coming up for reallocation that they hadn't expended to give them a little extra time. I don't know if that money has been expended and what's coming. And I don't know who in the agency of ag works on administrating the ag fairs. I do. Capital dollars? It would be good to also connect with that person and see if we could have a conversation with them.

[Rep. Joseph "Joe" Luneau]: And I don't know the extent of it, but they are doing some infrastructure work on the site right now. Because last year they were latent.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, if we could get the person from the agency a bit No, it's not that big. No, not for the. I don't think Abby will. This is probably the issue.

[Joe Aja (Department of Buildings & General Services)]: Anson told me to talk to her, but that was a couple weeks ago.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But there was another person. I don't think the person's there. We've got to find out the person in the agency of the acts who did this directly with the Ag Fairs capital projects. They have a competitive grant program. So I would like to have that person come in and talk to us this week in terms of what's out there for Franklin County as well, what they're saying. I would say, call it quits. They're pretty fried. Yes. We're gonna pick up tomorrow morning, the vets home. And we're gonna need BGS kind of here and there. Okay. Because I know we'll probably have a question. We're gonna keep working through the spreadsheet. We're gonna get 08:30 tomorrow. I know we're gonna be long on the floor, but we really need to get this bill in shape. We need to get through the first markups of where we are. Depending on what happens on the floor tomorrow, our parole board bills up for reading. Gina's up to the gender equity bill. There's some other important issues coming up on the floor tomorrow, but if there's gonna be a section of time that's really gonna be boring on the floor and people aren't interested in bills, I'm willing to find. I'm gonna ask to see if the committee can come up. You wanna take you away from any bills that people are interested in or there's a lot of debate. You know, when you get into a long day, there's some. And maybe if we could squeeze in and the course wouldn't work here. So 08:30 tomorrow morning, and we'll start with the beds.