Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Welcome folks, this is South Corrections and Institutions Committee. It is Thursday, February 19. We are now working on H five forty nine, and we have a new draft in Detroit. We we went through it really quick yesterday, and I asked members to read it last night. I hope you did. And I'm gonna turn it over to you because there's been some changes in the structure. I believe more section two and three and four. And we have with us the DLC folks, Haley and Monique, and then we also have Nancy from DMV. I hope you've gotten the new draft. I haven't followed up to make sure that you have. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you. So we're all set on section one, because that deals with the non driver ID. I think we've done that ad nauseam. And that is also extending it to detainees, which was an impetus for May. So let's go to section two, which is on page three. Hillary, it's all yours. So please introduce yourself for the record.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: The record, Hillary Chittenden aims for Office of Legislative Counsel. There are three changes in version 3.1 compared to version 2.1 that we talked about yesterday. So I will flag those three things, and then we can walk through sections two through seven. But if folks had any questions based on their review of draft 2.1 last night, I'm happy to answer those at any time. So the three key changes from version 2.1 to this version 3.1, there is a new fix for the unclear language that we had been discussing about detainee sorry, not detainee, but sentenced folks, operator's licenses, and learner's permits. So I'll point that out when we get there, but that's one key change. The second key change is to reorder two subdivisions in the sections pertaining to detainees, operators licenses and permits to match the order that the process happens, a clarity fix. And the third is to amend the title to reflect the new content of

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: the bill So before you get in, I just have one question of Nancy, just to clear my mind to understand her. So for a replacement license for a person who is sentenced and they meet the eligibility and all the documentation gets sent over to DMV, do they get that license while they are incarcerated?

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: For the record, Prescott, DMV Director of Operations. And the answer is yes. While an individual is sentenced upon release, the individual would be receiving their credential of a license in this case that you're referencing at DOC through their case manager.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So they would, when they left the facility, they would have that new license in hand? That is correct. Okay, that's what I want to be clear about. In case that question comes up.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: So turning to section two, this is on page three of draft 3.1. The change language that we clarified in two spots appears first on lines 18 through 21 and then onto page four, lines one through two. This provision previously read, an individual applying for a replacement operator's license pursuant to this subsection shall be required to provide proof of Vermont residence and the individual's mailing address upon release from the correctional facility. We talked about how that could be susceptible to two readings, including that the person needed to show up after release and produce these documents. So the new language tries to clarify that this is referring to what shall be required for the application and not anything that the individual needs to do after release. Representative Minier, you'll note there's a post release mailing address as you suggested yesterday. So the new language specifies that. The application shall include the post release mailing address of the individual and proof that the individual will be a resident of Vermont following release from the correctional facility.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Crushed it, Hillary. Crushed it.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yep. That's one. Alright. What? No.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: I just said she crushed it. Crushed it.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Take two. Mind you, take one didn't quite get there, but take two.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Complaining. Nobody else in the committee was complaining.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: It gets us to a great place of all sorts of

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: people. So

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: this is a requirement for, a Vermont requirement for DMV to be able to issue the license to have proof that the person will be residing in Vermont after release and their mailing address.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And DOC would submit that application on behalf I mean, the process would be that it's DOC that's gonna send over all those documents to DMV. That's my understanding. It's not gonna be the sentence person doing it personally.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: So that change is also reflected on the other section, this is section four, learner's permits for detained folks. So these are pages six and seven. If you look on page seven, lines nine through 14, again, that replaces the previous language that was ambiguous with this new language to be clear, that the application shall include the post release mailing address of the individual and proof that the individual will be a resident of Vermont following release from the correction facility. So that was one key change that we made from version 2.1 to version 3.1. Not to skip around, but let's turn back now to section three. So this is pages four and five, and this pertains to replacement licenses for detained individuals. This draft 3.1 makes another change compared to draft 2.1, and you can see that change on page five. This is lines five through 21. There was a suggestion that, as we talked about yesterday, it can be helpful when a statute walks through a process for the provisions to follow the order of that process. And so draft 3.1 swaps two and three in the previous version. What is now three was two, and what is now two is three, just to be clear about the order of operations here. So subdivision two, this is lines. The new language starts on line seven. This covers the requirement that DOC obtain the documents required for a non Real ID or Real ID operator's license and provide them to the individual at the time of release, followed by the application, which the detained individual will be submitting after they are released, which is why we're putting it after DOC collecting the documents. The application shall include the post release mailing address of the individual and proof that the individual is a resident of Vermont following release from the correction facility. There's one slight difference in this new fixed language for sentenced folks compared to detained individuals, and that is for sentenced individuals because the application is happening before they are released. It refers to proof that the individual will be a resident of Vermont following release from the correctional facility. For detained individuals because at the time of application they have been released, it requires proof that the individual is a resident of Vermont. We kept the following release from the correctional facility language because it still might be a DOC document showing that this is the person's mailing address when they are released. But that's just the one language change between the sentenced and detained individuals.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Because you know a certain representative will catch

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: They will. Yeah. They will. So whoever reports it on the floor needs to pay attention to that. Because I don't want a person to get caught, one of us, you folks, to get caught on the floor like what happened yesterday. Because that was pretty easy to answer those questions if you read the bill.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: It was explicit at the end of the bill.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And they had to take a recess to and select counts twice. Twice. And that shows that that's why I have committee members read the bill line by line before we vote it out. Because those are the times that you start understanding how the mechanics of the bill works, the language works, and that's the time to ask the question. People don't understand. That's why I do that.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: There's even a side here.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yes. You've got to understand how the sections go together and work back and forth. That'll be the next thing.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: So any questions on page five?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thank you for making that switch. That was my late night reading. Yes.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Are you on version 3.1? Yes.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Are we now?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: 3.1.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: We are. 3.1. Yes, I'm sorry. I was on page seven. I'm not sure.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I think you might

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I'm be sorry.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Not a problem. We are now moving ahead. So sections two and four cover operators' licenses and learners' permits for sentenced individuals. Three and five cover operators' licenses and learners' permits for detained individuals. So we just talked about Section three, replacement licenses for detained individuals. If we look now to Section five, which will be learner's permits for detained individuals, this is on page eight, line 16, running onto page nine, line 11. The same exact language that we just talked about is swapped and repeated here. So again, this change in order was to reflect the order that things will happen for detained individual. Subdivision two is that DOC shall collect the documents and provide them to the individual at the time of release. And subdivision three is that the application, which the detained individual has the choice to do after they are released, shall include the mailing address and proof that the individual is a resident of Vermont following release. So same change there. We tried to keep the language consistent for referring to the process for detained individuals and for sentenced individual, respectively, and then similarities across the requirements for the different kinds of credential. So moving forward, this was something that we didn't have much time to discuss in the quick run through yesterday and was new in version 2.1. So turning to page 10, this was the new section six. And again, this was a request that all of this is entitled 23. Folks who do DMV things will know to look there, but someone looking for information about DOC is going to look in title 28 and not see an indication that there is this program. So section six would add to 28 BSA section one zero two a little clue. The DOC commissioner is charged with many responsibilities. This would add a twenty fifth. So this is line seven of page 10 to coordinate with the DMV to provide eligible individuals with non driver IDs and documentation pursuant to, and we cross reference the two sections that were the bill amends in title 23. Replacement operators licenses and documentation. And we cross reference the two section or the section two subsections, the two subsections that the bill amends in title 23 and replacement learner's permits and documentation pursuant to 23 BSA sections six seventeen gs and h. So this is a way for someone in title 28 to know that there is some DOC and DMV coordination regarding providing these credentials, and it points them to the statutory provisions in Title 23 for more information. I'll pause there. Any questions about that?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I appreciate you doing that because that's going be very helpful. Shawn?

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Just that last part again, Hillary. Was just because that got added on line 19.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We're not there yet.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Oh, okay.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: She's talking about

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: You're not even there yet.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: She's talking your He didn't question. Oh, I'm sorry

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: you didn't get there yet. Okay. Good. Alright.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You're right there. That's right. You're behind.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: I'm ahead. Kevin? I love the language.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I love hearing that.

[Rep. Kevin Winter (Member)]: The question is, DOC, how often does a detainee or a sentenced person get released and they either don't know where they're going or their address has changed because it's changed. Percentage, not numbers. Lots, very few times. I would imagine it could happen often.

[Monique Sullivan, Department of Corrections Facility Operations Manager]: It probably for the record, Monique Sullivan, Department of Corrections, facility operations manager. There's only we averaged out that there's 40 people who've been detained for six months or longer per year for the last several years. So of those 40 people, yes, probably some of them, their address changes between when they first come into the facility and when they get released.

[Rep. Kevin Winter (Member)]: Okay. So

[Monique Sullivan, Department of Corrections Facility Operations Manager]: So even if it's 50%, that's 20 people in a year.

[Rep. Kevin Winter (Member)]: Yeah. No. No. No. I my my point is is if they come out and things have changed or they don't know where they're going, then I guess they're obligated to notify the DMV to update the database.

[Monique Sullivan, Department of Corrections Facility Operations Manager]: Yes.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's right here. It's right here. It's

[Rep. Kevin Winter (Member)]: my point is that it's a fluid situation. We've got the language that's perfect now, but it's up to the person to update the database one way or the other whether we've done our part or not. So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it's Right.

[Rep. Kevin Winter (Member)]: Enough said. So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I hate to ask this, But what we've put in for replacement license, replacement learner's permit for a detainee is that the application would include the post release mailing address of the individual. Oops, I'm in the wrong one. That's the one for sentence. I'm looking for the detainee language. The detainee language is the application that includes the mailing address of the individual and proof that the individual is a resident of Vermont following release from the correctional facility. The non driver ID, we don't have that type of language there. And should we for the detainee?

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: So that would be on

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Maybe it is embedded somewhere and just quickly, I can't find it. The OP as soon as reasonably shall obtain documentation and shall provide the individual with the documentation at the time of the release. And then upon application submission of all required documentation following the release

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: shall be provided. Oh, yeah, because we're providing that oh, no, wait. No, because

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it's Because they have to get that non driver ID. We're not providing I'm wondering if we need to have that language in the non driver ID as we do in the license and learner's permit.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I would be curious for the DMV perspective on that, just because that is a DMV requirement. And I, off the top of my head, do not know if there is a reason that it needs to be specified with respect to operators licenses and learner's permits, but not for non driver identification cards.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Nancy, can you weigh in on this or not?

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: Yes. Regarding detainees for non driver ID, whether it's a permit or a license should have the same language copied throughout regarding the residency of Vermont.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we should pick up that same language for license and Luneau's permit for detainees. We should pick that up in the non driver ID section for detainees. That is correct. Okay. Thank you. Good

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: catch, chair.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So I get paid for it.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: I mean, in fairness, Kevin started this, so I should give him a little bit of credit.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: He never.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: I'm not taking any credit with the fact But in fairness, she had to skip over section one. We didn't even read section one today. I would have I would have Oh, listen.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: So in the version that I prepare for next time, I will make sure that the language that we've talked about, that the application must include proof of residence and mailing address is exactly the same across non driver IDs, operator's licenses, and learner's permits for detained individuals.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah, I'd like to have the language track as much as possible Mhmm. For the detainee. For that. Makes good sense.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: With an eye on time, I'll turn back to page 10. And we talked about this quickly yesterday. It's twelve through eighteen, we have the effective dates. As we talked about, we have two different sets of effective dates. The two sections that refer to sentenced individuals, that's sections two and section four, have effective dates of 07/01/2026. And the section six that refers to the DOC commissioner responsibilities, that CLU entitled 28, that also takes effect on 07/01/2026. But this is now line 16 through 18 on page 10, sections one, three and five, which refer to detained individuals, ID cards, non driver ID cards, operators licenses and learners permits. Those sections will take effect on 01/01/2027. And the testimony from witnesses was that DMV needed that time to be able to set up their systems in various ways for the new process for detained individuals. Now, Representative Sweeney, you're up.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Yeah, there you go.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Line 19. This is the third change from

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Just to clarify. It's just clarified.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Best practice, as I understand it, is that when the content of the bill meaningfully changes between when it's introduced and when it's heading out of committee, it's such that the original title doesn't describe everything the bill now does. We amend the bill title so that it is clear from looking at the title what is covered in the bill. So the new title of the bill, previously, it was an act relating to eligibility of detained individuals to obtain a state issued non driver identification card. And the new title is an act relating to eligibility of sentenced or detained individuals to obtain state issued non driver identification card, replacement operator's license, or replacement learner's permit. Perfect.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Good test. Sounds so much better. Yeah. Roll her up. That's pretty amazing.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Perhaps not the most pithy, but descriptive. Which is what I understand.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: It's the most important thing. Does it give will I add in different, or is this literally how it appears will appear? It won't say a different section or a different letter in front of it.

[Rep. Conor Casey (Member)]: It'll appear

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Doesn't it look odd that it sticks at the end? I specifically went to colleagues and said, are

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: you sure? This is what it's supposed

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: to look like. It really is.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: You just cut it at the end. Yep.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's done after everything gets passed. Pardon? It gets done after everything gets passed. So going back to the non driver ID, I just wanna make sure that you do this on N123, then we have the same sequence as we do for the detaining placement license and bonus permit. Yeah, so So there'd be a new two. Exactly. And then you'd read number 2 and 3 to 34. So it has that same sequence. Yep, absolutely. There'll be a new draft of 4.1. So we have a walk through, Conor.

[Rep. Conor Casey (Member)]: Oh, yeah, it's not a language specifically, but more curiosity. And Nancy might know the answer, you might, Hillary, too. Driver's license information, to what degree is that subject to the Public Records Act? Is there an exemption for that? And just to enhance more sensitive population in some respects, since being able to request where everybody's going to live could be, I don't know, an issue maybe?

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: So are you envisioning a public records request of DOC or of DMV?

[Rep. Conor Casey (Member)]: I guess either, because it would be housed in both places to some degree, right? If

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Nancy knows the answer, I will be happy to follow-up. Okay. It's not an exception that I frequently deal with, but

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: I'm happy to

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: answer. Nancy, it's all yours.

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: So in regards to a public request, if there is specific data that's being requested of, as an example, of how many credentials and who were the individuals that received a credential of any type at zero fees would be something that would go through the record request through our attorneys. So, they could very well be subject to release of information, depending on how it was worded and if it was approved. There is nothing that would be protecting this class at this time that I'm aware of from not relinquishing specifics to that?

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: There is a Public Records Act exception that refers to personally identifying information. Am off the top of my head. I don't know the exact parameters of

[Rep. Conor Casey (Member)]: that, so I'm happy to follow-up. The situation I'm thinking, like, you know, some of the folks at the Chittenden Regional Facility, they were victims as well as as offenders. And they might have people very curious where they end up when they get out of prison. Right. And I don't know, maybe they can find that somewhere else, but I just wouldn't want to make that terribly easy, right?

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I'm happy to both look at the exception that I'm thinking of and ask one of our folks in Ledge Council who grows

[Rep. Conor Casey (Member)]: with Thanks so much, Hillary.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: That frequently. And when I come back with draft 4.1

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Normal safety period. That means Yeah. Know.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Top of

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: my head, I'm not sure of the exact parameters, but there is an exception that is intended to address that kind of concern.

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: Thanks, Hillary.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we have this draft, and you've heard a little bit of changes fourth draft to bring along in the non driver ID the same language for detainees as what's in the license owner's permit. That would be in the new draft. I'm going to start with DMV. Nancy, where are you on this particular draft with a proposed change for the next draft? We support this. We are on board. So corrections, where are you on this new draft and new 4.1 draft as well? Any landlines?

[Monique Sullivan, Department of Corrections Facility Operations Manager]: No concerns whatsoever. Like Nancy, we're totally in support of this.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And the language works for both of you folks.

[Rep. Conor Casey (Member)]: Yes. That's correct.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, yeah, it's not in our bailiwick totally to vote it out completely yet. The language needs to we need the new draft. I would like to get I need the draft tomorrow. I hate to say it.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Need And

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: what I wanna do is hold off voting out the bill till the beginning of next week because this language would need to be presented to Senate Transportation Committee first. And one of our legal staff would be presenting this. Would assume you or Damian, I'm not sure. I wanna make sure that the committee sees four point one tomorrow morning, please. We don't necessarily need Hillary here if you're tied up, but at least for some part before we go on the floor, I help people come in here. We may have a long floor tomorrow. I don't know, but I really wanna get this tied up. So if we're okay with the new language, make sure it tracks on four point one, which I think it will, I don't think it's going be a problem. Then I can let the chair of Senate Transportation say, no, we're good with this language and make sure they get it. But

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: don't want to vote the bill out until they've had a chance to do the work they're going to do to put it in their bill in case they have questions or need some changes. Those H five forty nine has to be the exact language that's in the DMV miscellaneous bill. So I'm going to hold off voting this out until I get the clearance from Senator West. I don't wanna get caught with us voting a bill out, then they end up changing a couple pieces of language. So next week, we're gonna vote this bill out next week. I'd like to do it be Wednesday. I don't think they can do it in time for Tuesday. But tomorrow morning, when you folks come in, just hopefully, Hillary can get a draft sent to us and quickly go over it with you individually or a couple of you at a time so at least we get the okay from the committee that looks good. And I can let senator Westman know tomorrow because he wants his language tomorrow that it's a go and here's the language. I do have right now. We have plenty of time right now. We've got twenty minutes. Do you want

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: to look? Yes. That would be great.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Then I can get a little bit

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: of attention.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: easy. Sometimes fixes require a lot more. Well,

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Mary's here. So if you need any help, she's done. Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We can do that.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Forget it. I don't think I have the Zoom link to share my screen. So two options. I can email this to Tate and can print it really quickly, or I can If you can make a change. Hop on it. You know? We'd like to be a singer.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Pay a lot more money than us. She is amazing. Perfect. Thank you.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Updated. Also, they went to college. Didn't you? Law school? No. Not you? Not in law school. Troy would let me in. I worked at a hospital. Are you still trying to get that application into UVM law school? Yeah. You guys haven't heard back from them?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: No. Sniffle. It's got

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: to look a lot like good now. That's all.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I won't share my thoughts about law school on the record. Too.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Don't do that while you're on YouTube.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: But you we all have thoughts. Here. We're thankful you went to Nashville tomorrow.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I'm glad I did too, but I

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: do love working with a mix of lawyers and not lawyers. Just lawyers. Out of three.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Not good.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You know? You're great, but not that great.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Perfect. So the change that I made was we are in section one on non driver identification cards. We have subsection M staying the same. But on page two, this is subsection N, and this is the first time we talk about the process for detained individuals. I have added what is now subdivision two, and this is the language that we have in the operator's license for detained individuals and learner's permit for detained individuals sections. We've added it in the same place here, the same language, and then we've renumbered. This used to be two. It's now three. And this used to be three. It is now four. And the rest What

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: do see? Tracks even the new three and the new four. That language tracks what we've done for detainees, for driver's license in Lone Star. Same sequence, same language. Yes.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I'm not sure if it will let me do this while here, but there we go. New word trick, if you wanna know. So on the top, the top half of the screen is staying section one, and we'll scroll down to section three. So this is the replacement license for detained individuals. Sure

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: you try. Here it is.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Funny to learn. So this is numbered a little bit differently just because there is an initial section, but you'll see that this is the same language across those two sections. And the only change for that second subdivision is that in section one, it refers to a non driver identification card. DOC and DMV shall coordinate about documentation for the card. And in section three, it is DOC and DMV shall coordinate that documentation for the replacement operator's license. And we can scroll down again to section five, learner's permit. And this will match, again, the numbering for the operator's license, but the language here is the same. So we have Subdivision 3 matches Subdivision 4. Again, the only language change is the credential that is referred to. The yellow section. The rest of it remains the same.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So I just want to take a stravo. Are people comfortable proposing this language to Senate Transportation Committee draft 4.1? Yes. Yes.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Yeah. I'm

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. We've got a few questions. We're gonna propose So it to him

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Hillary, what would be the best process for this? To send it to Damien? To send it to Senate? My understanding from Damien is that if the committee is approved, I'll send draft 4.1. I'll send a draft to Tate. So the committee has it. And it will send it to Damien. I believe his plan is to copy it directly into the Senate Motor Vehicles Miscellaneous Bill three eighty two. I'm forgetting the exact number right now. And that same language but in the Senate bill is what would be presented tomorrow. I will confirm with Damian what his timing and plan

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: is for that. As long as they can't afford tomorrow.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: That's my

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: concern. So next week, depending when we hear back from Senate Transportation, And I would like to vote this puppy out. I've asked Joe if he'd be willing to report the bill. Yes. Joe's willing to. And I do up a report. You can work with Hillary that maybe if you have questions on certain sections, and then I'll go over the report with you. The bill will have to go to ways and means because it has a fee. P is zero. I know ways and means is gonna ask how much revenue we lose because I spoke to the chair of ways and means last evening and that's the first thing she asked, thinking it was brand new. So we might be wanna be prepared

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: with So primarily, the the revenue we'd be losing is on the detainee side. It's the other side already.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: We'd be losing on the detainee. We'd be losing on the license, and we'd be losing on the learner's permit. It would be the non driver ID, it's $3.3 So that's what they need to get extrapolated to many people, 3.3. That's 40. What's in the bill, It says for a fee of zero. So just by having that fee word and zero kicks it to ways and means. Mhmm.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: And DMV is absorbing $3.30 for identification. Correct? Regardless, any identification card, that's the hard cost.

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: That is correct. $3.30.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: But also for your driver's license and also

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: It's the same.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Any any it's the identification. That's the hard cost.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Right. But it's not people can interpret what you just said as just the non driver ID and not the driver's license or the owner's permit. So it's for all three.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Yes. Which you know what what Alice is saying is other people don't. Don't sign. That's why we're doing tagging right now. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So you might wanna be prepared for that. That will be a question that will come up in ways and means. So when that comes up in ways and means, but the bill will go to ways and means. I don't believe it will go to appropriations cause there's no real appropriations to it. So I don't believe it will go, but it will go to Ways and Means. So I wanna kick this puppy out. I'd like to vote it out. Wednesday, I don't see Senate Transportation doing anything before Wednesday, the latest.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: So now is the time to talk about enhanced licenses?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Anything else before we finish up with DMV and DOC? Because then I want a full conversation about our schedule tomorrow.

[Rep. Conor Casey (Member)]: Thank Nancy.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thank you, Monique. Thank you. Thank you. You. You're very welcome, and thank

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: you all. I appreciate the patience to work through this. It'll be great for everyone.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You had a lot of patience with us. Oh, it's

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: all good.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you.

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: Take care. If there's anything we can do to help, please let me know. Okay.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye bye. So tomorrow. We got

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: anything further from me?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I need to talk to you about the roll forward thing. Did you? I would recommend you watch the YouTube of yesterday of what testimony we received from Mary Jane.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I will have some follow-up questions since starting to draft. There are a few questions that are still open. But if it works, I will share initial draft language by email with a couple items pulled out. But we should be on track to do that.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Because I'd like to just really, if possible, kick that bill out next week. And, yeah, if you could work on that, and then I'd like to possibly kick that bill out next week. And then we also have something else circulating out there with Hillary and Katie, clean, clean. If you remember way back at the beginning of the session, DOC came in and said they were going to increase with WellCAD. They were going to increase, it was pertaining to substance use disorder, working with the MOUD program, but expanding to also include substance use treatment, like behavioral health therapy. And it was sort of connected to the accountability docket that they testified. So I asked the commissioner for some information about that. He said he couldn't release anything till after the governor's budget address. So he had the governor's budget address. So from that point on until I think it was last Friday.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: So you said earlier? Yeah.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It wasn't Tuesday. I asked and asked for that information, and I didn't get it until last Friday. And then I had What's it what's it look like? Well, I handed it over to Katie beginning of the week because I wanted to compare with what's in current statute for the MOUD because it's part of it's payment. And then I spent some time yesterday looking at this, and it looks like it's more with the courts and that they could sentence someone to a treatment program in Corrections. And I'm going, I don't know if that works. So I showed it to Martin yesterday quickly. He goes, So anyway, I had set up time on Tuesday to meet with Katie about this, and we couldn't do it until this afternoon. So Katie and Hillary were here with us,

[Nancy Prescott, DMV Director of Operations]: and

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it looks like there's more court than DOC, and nobody kinda knows what this plan is. So I've reached out to have Tate schedule DOC next week to go over this proposal because I don't even know if it's in the big bill. And Martin do not know about it. And we don't know if

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: the courts know anything about Except it's how like, they can't a correctional facility isn't a rehab facility. Is that what you're saying? That that

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That they would be sentenced to a treatment program within corrections, which we don't do that.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: That's what it says.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Well, that's it you know where they got this Well, it's just a It's not language in the bill. There isn't any legal language. It's not legal language. He just gave me a draft of enhanced substance use disorder treatment program. And then as you read it, the court may order a defendant to attend community based treatment, in which case the receiving community clinic or provider may request assessment that was completed in DOC custody. The court may sentence the defendant to the custody of DOC with treatment completion as a condition of the sentence. Cannot do anything. You can't do it. This is incarceration.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: You're gonna be incarcerated Well, the under So

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: anyway, folks, this is we can

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Is it a condition of release?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: No. It's a condition of their sentence. The sentence? Yeah. It says condition as a condition of the sentence. And that the minute I read that, I hollered up to Martin. Was, Rob Martin.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Sounds like we had some testimony,

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So we're gonna schedule testimony next week. Who supposedly delivered this to the commissioner? Commissioner Murad. They also

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: How were they gonna understand this without statue? They here next week?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Without any questions. So it's and I don't know if there's anything in the big bill for this. I don't know if the courts know anything about this. This is what Katie and Hillary brought up to me at 12:30 today. Does the court know anything about this? Have they weighed in on this? We're gonna ask you. We're gonna ask the to come in and talk through this for police.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Maybe I can sentence a couple of you to paint my garage.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: If you folks want want this,

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: they would want it. Yeah. Would think Want it?

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Why you have consented back.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: So do you know who you want for this? Oh, no. I Corrections.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Corrections. It's the administration. Told you I

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: could do it. Next week, we come in. Just to have a conversation. It looks like a draft report.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It's a draft. But it's almost like after he pushed for getting it, they just read something wrong.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: In your office. So those

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: are That's what it sounds for you. Thank you so much, everyone.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: This isn't like an April fools setup, is it? No? Just a month and

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: a half.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Oh, I didn't know if it's A month and a week earlier.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: In six weeks. No. You did a brilliant thing up for last year.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I have a feeling

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: letter from senator Harrison.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I have a feeling because I have a feeling because they pushed

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Starting at

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: pushed to get it. Where? Just rolls this out. Here.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: This area. Up north is less.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I know. No. It's less. There's a handful of us that have to go off Do I know down the mountain. We can still be going. Right. But we'd like on this one.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: So the time we get them out of here.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So what I wanna figure out, tomorrow we have I wanna get the correct agenda. Tomorrow after the floor. Tomorrow after the floor, we have BTS coming in to finish with their general fund budget. And then we had something scheduled for language that would be needed in the capital bill at 12:00. So I would say we cancel the 12:00 one. And BGS will come in after the floor. I would like to finish. I would like to finish by 11:30 Mhmm. Tomorrow. So people who live down south

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: stay till the bus.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Can get out of here.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: You can make. You can't just.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So if we can all finish up by eleven third, depending on the floor because we may we'll have to see that. But I really want folks to get out of here, it seems to be day on.

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Yeah. One to two inches an hour is a pretty good clip.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So there's like four or five of us that live down south. So we'll be back here tomorrow for folks on YouTube. We'll be back here tomorrow after the floor. That's the plan. K?

[Rep. Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: Mhmm.

[Rep. Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So let's