Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Shawn Sweeney (Clerk)]: You're live.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And welcome back, folks. This is South Corrections and Institutions. It is Wednesday, February 4. We're at our 03:00 meeting, and we're shifting gears. We have corrections in front of us. And last year, we spent quite a bit of time with our colleagues in next door. Don't even remember what the name of that committee is. Digital. I can't remember what the name of the committee is.

[Travis Edden]: Digital Infrastructure.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Is it digital infrastructure? No. Is it?

[Travis Edden]: Yeah. Energy and digital.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah. Energy and digital. And we sent a letter to the broadband broadband group that made decisions on money to be distributed to enhance broadband coverage. And one of the proposals was for some of that money to go to connections. So, the installation of Wi Fi within our facilities. We have done work in terms of knowing where the hot spots are. We did that during COVID. So now the question is, how do we get Wi Fi into our personal facilities? So I'm turning it over to both of you and DOC. So I don't know who's going first. Just introduce yourself. I'll kick us off.

[Kristen Calvert]: I'm Kristen Calvert, Deputy Commissioner of Baltimore.

[Travis Edden]: I'm Travis Edden. I am the Chief of Operations for Lumock DOC.

[Kristen Calvert]: So we have two slides for you today, very in-depth. But I'll have Travis just give folks a quick background and the reason why we need Wi Fi.

[Travis Edden]: Sure, yeah.

[Kristen Calvert]: And then I'll walk through the timeline of

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: where we are today.

[Travis Edden]: Great. Thanks, Kristen. Sorry to step on you Yeah, just a quick background. This is not a new thing for this group, I'm sure. But we've got limited cellular service. Some of that's just a prospect of the communities that some of these facilities are in. And then, of course, six feet concrete, this, that, and the other thing. A cellular option is not viable. And there's no Wi Fi outside of some very like our risk network for our education classrooms, which is proprietary and not something that we can access for staff needs. Then, of course, our tablets for our incarcerated population, same thing proprietary, can't access for bunch of different cybersecurity related things. Things that we would benefit from Wi Fi, there's a list on your slides of a few things. From the hip, the way I would, I guess, conceptualize Wi Fi is there's a dam in front of a ton of progress that we would want to make that would really modernize how corrections operates. There's a lot of good ideas out there. Vermont likes to try to be in the front, the need in this space whenever we can. So whether it's access to attorneys, whether it is, you know, health and wellness bracelets, tablets for officers that connect with the tablets from the incarcerated, so there's a quick turnaround with those old school paper communications. I mean, list goes on and on and on. And there are so many mousetraps out there that folks would love us to look at that are all built on this whole Wi Fi access as the base to to even launch.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: How much how much is done through paper because of lack of Wi Fi that you could do electronically?

[Travis Edden]: I mean, a lot. Less than there used to be, for sure, in certain areas, especially where we do have the tablet access. We've tried to modernize grievances, for example. We would love to have request forms and medical requests and all these other things. We launched some of that. We flipped to that in many spaces. There is so much more that we could do. But paper is the enemy, so to speak. And it's something that we still rely on pretty heavily.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Are we losing correctional staff COs at all because it's so cumbersome for them to keep track of the data that they accumulate or reports that they have to submit? Do we lose staff because of that?

[Travis Edden]: I have an opinion about that. I don't know that we have that hard data to say that. Exit interviews, there's lots of different reasons. But what we do have is we have a new generation of staff coming up. They're coming in. There as a Gen Xer. The fact that I'm talking about Wi Fi is a little interesting. I'm a very low tech guy. So glad to be here. But those new staff that we bring in come in with a skill set that surpasses many of ours. And I think there is an untold number of people that maybe would be turned off to the work because of the more archaic analog nature. And then there's also a bit of steam in that new staff that have ideals about how we could be better. And then they run into the same barrier that we're talking about today, which is, Why aren't we doing this smarter at my house? I can talk to my wall and my microwave turns off. You know what I mean? And it just translate to

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: That's not computer.

[Travis Edden]: That's not computer.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Kevin and Ben, James.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Maybe I didn't understand. I thought you said that the tablets gave you opportunity, but how does a tablet help you if you don't have Wi Fi?

[Travis Edden]: I was talking about the one example of opportunities that are out there that we can't access yet. Oh, can't access yet. Can't access yet. Yeah, if there was a corresponding tablet system for staff that worked well and communicated with what we have. I got you.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah, got you. Can I answer that Troy?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: So we've talked about Wi Fi last year, I know way before I got here in this committee. But you mentioned something that Ben mentioned before, just tripping me up. So do you need more? So you already have a couple

[Travis Edden]: of Wi Fi's for medical and whatever, got two? So for our education division, there's a very specific curated type of Wi Fi.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Right. So that's my point. So if you were is one more Wi Fi going to help? Or are you actually gonna need more Wi Fi's that are also just designated for certain, right? Because you'll have your officers, maybe you have something for the inmates. I don't know how that works. That's one And

[Travis Edden]: I'll, again, super techy, so I'm gonna do my best to answer that. I look at they're an array of Wi Fi hubs that act as one kind of network, right? So by one more Wi Fi, I mean that I take that to mean one more Wi Fi network. This Wi Fi network would be state owned, dedicated to the staff, installed, and up to all the cybersecurity codes that ADS would put upon us to make sure that the information it has access to is as highly protected as it needs to be, which is different than the other two networks that exist. There's one small network inside a very small area of each facility for the educational, the Focus laptops. It's a it like I said, highly curated. I'm not technical enough to tell you all the ins and outs, but it's so that it's a safe version of web access for them The to other one is for those tablets that are owned by that tablet company. And again, those tablets are telecommunication type of tablet and we don't have access to that network. One more network would really kind of complete the circle and really allow us access to all these other innovative ideas. One more network.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: And so the second question is, I remember we talked about it, I just can't remember what the answer was. You obviously have issues like your balls and stuff like that, but is if you had the money, if for some strange reason, Conor has it in his pocket, Will allow you to go and actually do this? Or is there

[Travis Edden]: other hurdles still left other than? That might be a tag team answer. My understanding is because of the heat mapping work that we've done, and I believe there's at least some preliminary work with ADS talking about what they would need for technical requirements. I think that's mostly a yes, but I'm gonna look to my partner.

[Kristen Calvert]: Yeah, it's really funding at this point. I think there are certain parts of the heat mapping we would have to revisit and fine tune because we do have Wi Fi in a couple visitation rooms, for example, or in lobbies. So that work would just have to kinda be edited a little bit to make sure it's still accurate, but it's really funding. It's the barrier. Thank you.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And once you had the funding and installed the Wi Fi, is there any ongoing cost or licensing fee to ADS?

[Kristen Calvert]: There is, and that's included in the original quote that we received.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: It was pretty minimal. 3.29? Yeah, 3.29

[Kristen Calvert]: encompassed everything, the install, the equipment, labor. And then the ongoing operational costs, I think, was under $50,000 a year to support the networks. That is probably different at this point, given the number of years it's

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: been. Warren?

[Unidentified Committee Member]: I want to articulate my understanding, because I don't think Wellpass or Medical has their own networks, right? Because I recall testimony saying, them saying it would be so much easier if they had a more consistent

[Kristen Calvert]: Yeah, they do use our wiring, we do some specific wiring for them, but it's the same.

[Travis Edden]: Yeah,

[Unidentified Committee Member]: okay. Second question is, how long of an installation process is this if we're ready to go?

[Kristen Calvert]: That's a great question. I don't know the answer to it. I think a lot of it might lie in the supply chain issue with getting the equipment and then securing the contractors.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So where are we right now?

[Kristen Calvert]: We kind of documents the timeline from where we started in May with the original heat mapping. The estimate, which is the 3.2.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And that estimate is from calendar year 'twenty three?

[Kristen Calvert]: Early in the calendar year. It's probably over 4,000,000. Probably six point. Yeah. Last outreach to the broadband board was a couple of weeks back. We had heard that the federal administration will issue new guidelines on the unused funds that exist, but they don't have that information yet. They think it'll be about March. And then at that point, we intend, hopefully, to be able to submit another request.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: What was their reasoning for denying it last year?

[Kristen Calvert]: That's a good question. I think my understanding is they were prioritizing digital equity education at that point. And we were prioritized with community needs having precedence over us.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So digital equity for education.

[Kristen Calvert]: I think education broadly, not just for the agency of education. But education broadly, really

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: CCB is limited in terms of what they can offer. So that should have hit that criteria.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Did they

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: give indications to come back and reapply

[Kristen Calvert]: The board? I think we're welcome to. I do feel like they're still open to another proposal, but we'll certainly be doing it.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Is anything limited in terms of federal guidelines in terms of where the money would go?

[Kristen Calvert]: The old guidelines, no. We were recognized as an underserved population, given both the population itself and the rural nature of many of our facilities. So I do think we met the criteria. It just wasn't prioritized.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So, right now, the community broadband board was recommending that you reapply. Are you working with Agency of Digital Services in that application?

[Kristen Calvert]: Yeah, we absolutely will. I'd like to see the guidelines first to understand how or what we can request.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And those guidelines should be coming down from the federals? That's my understanding, yes. When do you anticipate getting those, in March? They said early March.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Is there a reimbursement possibility for that? Like FEMA reimburses that

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: you can

[Unidentified Committee Member]: relay out the cash and then you get a grant?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Can you

[Unidentified Committee Member]: reimburse it?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I don't

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: know the answer to that, but I can absolutely ask. That's a good question.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So when are you gonna update the March? I mean, that would have to be updated. It would.

[Kristen Calvert]: I mean, we could conceivably start partnering with ADS now to see what kind of layout, all the steps we would need to

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: take to do I would recommend that to move this along pretty quickly in order to be in the pecking order for funding and do it now.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So could you go back to the first page? Increased language access. Would that be helpful for the lawyer client relationship, particularly for folks who are detained under ICE?

[Travis Edden]: What we find whenever we innovate like this is it's a bit of a plus one theory, right? You innovate and one thing works, and then all of a sudden, the ideas start coming from staff left, right, and center, and then, oh, there's another thing. So I think that would be the tip of the iceberg, and a little bit of success would create some momentum in various lanes to include the language access.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Are you having issues with language access with folks who are coming in through the Vermont court system as well? Not just ICE, but general?

[Travis Edden]: I mean, it happens for sure. But it's just the concentration now is critical at Northwest and June.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: And is it frustrating for your staff and correctional officers to know that there isn't the access to language access for folks?

[Travis Edden]: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's frustrating. Everybody, they want to do a good job. Especially once you've worked inside the facility for a little while, want to get to your shift. And the more you can provide good communication and equal access to things, the better the shift goes. So even from that perspective, it's important. When I did my walk through that I think Commissioner Mirad mentioned recently, I talked to staff. I was in the unit. I talked to a couple of individuals who were detainees and just put myself in the shoes not only of the ICE detainee and what they encountered, but also the staff. It's a hard conversation to have if you don't have that in your skill set to even speak any other language other than English. I found myself really at a loss to really connect with this individual, and I couldn't help but think, I bet you my phone has an app, or something like that that would make this so much easier. So I think it would help immensely in every aspect of the work that we do.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: So in Chittenden and then in the St. Auvel's facility, where could folks go to have access on their phone?

[Travis Edden]: Today? In St. Albans, my phone barely works in the parking lot, right? So that's just from a cellular standpoint, I don't think anywhere. I think there's, you know, it's South Burlington, there's robust cellular access. It gets interrupted inside of the facility, though, because of the interference. It probably works a little bit in that very front office area. Aside from that, that's why you would need those Wi Fi connections so you could use some of that equipment, but not you know, if we could do it off of cellular, I think we'd be doing it already. We would just have a workaround and go for it.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Do you get a feeling from the broadband boards that if there was any state money put towards it, they would be more willing to agree? We had that impression, but we've also never discussed that. Do you mean as far as, like, putting up, match funding? Putting some money on the state level. Not that we're going to do it, but I just wonder if that would be some initiative incentive for them to say, hey, they really mean this, and they put some money on the table. Mary? Absolutely.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: So in hearing you speak, it seems as though there's been a number of questions out there that aren't answered for you, but I'm almost hearing too that you haven't necessarily reached out to try to get some of those answers. And that's why I just said, I think the sooner you're connecting with the people you're needing to to move this along and get the money off this

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: and that,

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: it's gonna be beneficial. I bet I think we're all behind getting this fixed, but we've gotta take the steps to get there. It's been way too long now.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Questions? Thoughts?

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Maybe more for Hailey. It'd be great if we could see like a tablet one of these days. Like, could we bring one in just to pass around and see what's on it? We'll give it back. We

[Kristen Calvert]: did switch tablet companies fairly recently,

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: I think April

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: or so. So they're now integrated coin.

[Travis Edden]: And not quite They're ruggedized, though, so they're a little more without the network, I don't think we could really demonstrate how it works, but

[Unidentified Committee Member]: we could certainly bring one. How robust is their network, their Wi Fi network that they install?

[Travis Edden]: I think in the installation, we've had fits and starts, for sure. It was a major undertaking, but we're constantly on top of that, but it works well. There's a lot of volume.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Can the tablets be used in the individual cells? So it's possible to get a network in those facilities where the Wi Fi is very

[Travis Edden]: And handling video. So really kind of big ticket items for that type of number.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Here's the next question to that, and it just occurred to me. I've read the IC Solutions contract. One of the things that's in that contract is upon termination, the infrastructure becomes property and stays. If that were to happen, would you suddenly have a Wi Fi network?

[Travis Edden]: I don't believe the infrastructure would be extended to the actual Wi Fi

[Kristen Calvert]: Yeah. I'm not sure. I might have to ask ADX that question to see what it would take to reconfigure it, not knowing they just do

[Unidentified Committee Member]: a dead network? Like, It probably cost more

[Travis Edden]: to pick it up. I think we found that with our last So

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: it won't be an active network? I don't think so.

[Kristen Calvert]: We we would deactivate it for the vendor to

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: remove equipment. But, yeah, I think that's a good question that

[Kristen Calvert]: we can ask ADS, see if that equipment would be able to be repurposed.

[Travis Edden]: Things like conduit and all the other things that happen behind the scenes are not going

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: to leave that. Who installed the conduit?

[Travis Edden]: Turned into a partnered process, but they did the vendors didn't have a contractor contractor electricians that came along, and then we had to bring in BGS to make sure it was done to the proper code. A lot of lessons learned.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Paid for BGS, and who paid for that? Was it the vendor that paid to have it installed?

[Kristen Calvert]: Yes. It's their responsibility to pay for the install.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Do you recall how long that took minutes about?

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: A long time.

[Kristen Calvert]: Longer than you thought. It's been

[Travis Edden]: pretty consistent. Probably three months to focus.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Yeah, then some trouble from facilities.

[Travis Edden]: From facilities. And we had Biopap before that, so some of the initial work. But we didn't go from having no tablets to tablets, which was there was now just a repurposing of what was there, but then finding out that you can't just plug something in and then all of sudden turn on the microwave and the tablets don't work. Was really, there was some high level master electrician requirements that I don't know that they anticipated. So it probably took about three months. Now there's just ongoing meetings and maintenance.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: Things that we don't even think about for our facilities. People think, oh, yeah, there's a building there. We locked people up. Sounds good. Now we don't have to see them, and we don't have to think about. So if you could work with the agency of digital services, start finding some groundwork. I think it might be also worthwhile to connect with the committee next door of energy to go into services or whatever it's called. It might really be worth to connect with. Oh, you went in there last year. Got a little dicey. But, you know, if we could get them on board too, because they work directly with digital, you know, with just digital services with the agency. You really need ADS as your partner.

[Kristen Calvert]: We do. And they did their original heat mapping, so they're well aware of the project and the needs of

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: anything else before we go on a floor at 03:30. And then I believe we'd be done. There's not much on the floor, but probably won't get done till a little bit after 04:00. And we're back here tomorrow morning at 08:30 for another full day.

[Mary A. Morrissey (Member)]: Thank

[Travis Edden]: you. Thank you.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair)]: You. So we are done for the day. Let's go off