Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Hey, these.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Well, I'm gonna get them.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: I'm gonna

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: get them.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Okay. I'm

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Welcome, folks. This is House Corrections. It's Thursday. Starting out our morning with building some general services. We're working on our capital budget. We're really going to be focusing on their section. We'll get down as far as 10. I do have Scott, who's on fiscal, made up some new spreadsheets. Awesome. Basically, what it is. Physically orient folks.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Thank you, sir.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So the blue columns is what we passed last session, end of the session. The gray column in the middle is what the governor has recommended. So everything in the highlights, yellow highlights is where the governor has recommended the move, moving money around. The red is the same as the gray columns without the highlights, but its ability for us to write whatever we need to write in that column for that when we start moving money around and do markup. So the gray column and the red column are the same. They just don't show the highlights in the red column. Okay? So that's what's at stake here. So Commissioner Minier Lee, why don't you come on up? And we're gonna start with section two.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: And

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: we will, because this is a budget adjustment, we're gonna find a, we'll focus in where the money is being asked to be moved and changed, but that's not to say that we don't get some background information on the projects that are not being affected by BAA. Sometimes what we find, if we ask questions about a project that hasn't been subjected to the governor's recommended BAA, sometimes we find that, well, maybe the project needs a little bit more money. The governor didn't put that in. Or maybe it's not going as quickly as we'd hoped, so maybe they don't need the money in twenty seventh that we put in. And those are little moving pieces that we can play with. So commissioner, welcome.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: So good morning, Wanda Manoli, commissioner of buildings general services. And I appreciate how you just described your committee's puzzle pieces. It is a piece. It is a puzzle. I'm going to turn it over to my team really shortly, but I just wanted to do a quick overview. First, I think you know everyone in the room, but I just want to acknowledge Joe A. Joe again. It's been it's a wonderful journey. I'm having fun. You're gonna hear from Lauren Washburn, and I think you've probably heard from her before, but, we've asked Lauren to come in and start participating because major maintenance is a huge piece of our budget and it supports one of the biggest services that we have to provide statewide. And Lauren's a chief that works under Joe, but she manages the program and she works with all the district facility managers and they have a process that's in place. And she's very passionate about it. I think we all are when it comes to major maintenance. You are going to see that our spend has increased because we've realigned, we're focused, we're really making those investments in the building. And so you're going to hear that's part of why there's an increase in that. And my numbers may be wrong, so I apologize. But you know, I will put estimates out there. I think that for several years in the past, Lawrence had a pretty good carryforward. She's almost out of money. And that doesn't mean and it means that it's assigned, and it's moving forward with the project. And we don't I hope we don't have to get into the maintenance of all of these buildings, but you you know, she's she's gonna really I want her to spend some time with you so you understand that. You all know Emily. You all know Cole. And we are here to support you through your legislative session. The other, we've you know, BGS does not put the capital bill together. We don't do the budget adjustment. We used to do that, madam chair. Oh, yes. And and so we are sections within that capital bill. So we've realigned also a little bit on our presentation and we, you know, we want to test it with you and make sure that it works. So Joe is going to take you through section two. And then we have other sections because we oversee construction and maintenance. So, we didn't take all of the sections and put them in our PowerPoint. We just focused on section two. There are two items in there that is David Sheetz money for what we call the State House. Joe's going to skip over that and also security because I'd like to come back and have a conversation about those specific appropriations and what the mission is and what we're trying to accomplish. State House security? No. That's that's something I would say. When you give us money every year to do improvements in the statehouse, it's almost like a separate maintenance budget to do curtains and carpets and that type of thing. But, you know, I just wanna talk about that, I think, with the committee. The other piece that I just wanted to talk about is I do have a meeting scheduled with Scott. Really, you know, lessons are always learned, realignment. And last year, going through your repo, because I'm gonna call it your repo process, Joe and I had to get Abacus to align, but our documents weren't tying out with vision. We had a higher spend than the report you were getting from vision. So we spent the past year after the session working on realigning our numbers and putting information into vision so the numbers were closer. So if we had a purchase order or a requisition or a contract, that wouldn't show up in vision until we actually started spending on it. So we work with finance to be able to track the projects on our list and where they're at into Vision's. And so you're going to see because last year, the report you got didn't line up with ours. And we that's why I said we needed an abacus and Joe and I sat in the office and and let me tell you, it didn't matter how many pencils that we used. Couldn't come We couldn't sharpen them enough. So we really, really spent time, and invested in that process. So I look forward to my meeting with Scott. We will make our spreadsheet available to him. I think we've probably sent you one and and we'll work through that so he can support you better in those numbers because we were I mean, we were we were turning over every leaf and having to explain everything and and that's still important to do, but a lot of that money had been committed, and it wasn't showing up. So I just wanted to share that with you.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So for the repo, you might I don't know if you include our legislative council in your whole work beyond GFO, but keep John in the loop as well.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And I and Scott helped us last year. So I I mean, I'm not sure if he's analyzed the spreadsheet that we gave him yet. But, I mean, it's it's a really good working relationship, and I just wanna acknowledge him and and thank him for that. The other point I'd like to make, and then I'd just like to turn it over, madam chair, to to Joe and, Lauren, is that I know there are many reallocations that have been proposed to you on some projects. There's cash, and there is bonded money. And I would like you to just think about if you want us to talk about that section separately and talk about the status of why we may have proposed those dollars to be reallocated because Joe hasn't brought it into the Section two. And so it was an analysis of where we are with the project, what's moving forward, why we didn't spend it. I mean, wasn't detailed written, but those are the conversations that we that we had.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yeah. For the committee, this is really the first time that we have come up against the timeline time frame for the cash fund or the second book for reallocations. Last year, we did it ourselves when we reallocated. It was over $1,000,000 for the vets home. It was for A or we had B and C wings in there and wasn't going forward and we reallocated that. We moved it to another project at the vet's home. We did that. But this is the first time that there is cash that was put aside for these projects, that the cash has not gone out the door. And it's up against that timeline of

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Not the mandatory timeline. Yeah. We're a year out from that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Some of these, it's coming up for June 16. From what Nick said, some of these are hitting that timeline, because they'll expire in June year.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Are we at the three year? Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: We are from '20 Perfect.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: So that would be allocated in FY '23?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: '24.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: That's the two year month.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yeah. Of '23.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And so this will be a new conversation for us because the goal is that the cash goes out the door first instead of bonded. So get into that separately. And there are

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: a few items, and I believe Nick went over it, so we really did take a deep look at if it's an active project, I just and and the money needed to be reallocated under that statutory authority, then we reallocated it to the project. If the project didn't move forward or if it was canceled for any reason It's the bottom line. It goes to the bottom line. And I think the statement you just made is really, really important, and it's one of the elements that Joe and I talked about with our new working relationship is the way the cash was being tracked in our spreadsheet, it wasn't connected to the project. And so when project managers are paying bills, we had not a lot, but they were just their codes that they use, they weren't necessarily spending the cash first. So that's been a huge change in process that Joe has implemented. And the way we revised our spreadsheet, you can now click on a project and Scott will be your expert and you can see all of the appropriations and they know to go to cash first. So, and I just wanted to share that with you. And at this time, I'm gonna stop talking, and I'm gonna turn it over to director Regent, if I may, unless you have any further questions for me.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: No. Thanks for making that effort to do that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: You're welcome. So our I just wanna do committee members have any questions? Because this is a little new. This is different than last year.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: James? No question, but I have a comment.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: And I'll make it

[James Gregoire (Vice Chair)]: brief because we have things to do. I've been here for eight years and I want to thank you and your crew for being, I think, the best partners as far as our working together that I have dealt with over those eight years. You. Don't want to go to your head.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: I know.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: It's important for my team to hear that, and it is a partnership. We're not always going

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: to agree or we're going to

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: have different visions, but what I really value and appreciate is the opportunity that you allow us to have the conversations around it. So thank you.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Okay. Joe and Lauren, do you both want to come up? I'll come up first and

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: lay everything out the slide deck because it goes right through the spreadsheet. So major majors first.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yep. So Lauren, welcome.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Don't give her too hard of a token. Good

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: morning. Lauren Watchburn, BGS.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Welcome. Welcome, welcome.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: So we need another slide. Do need a paper copy of

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: that? I don't think so.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: I'll tell you when I put the

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: So I oversee the major maintenance program. Major maintenance covers the large repairs and major system replacements in BGS owned buildings. BGS has over two forty buildings and 4,000,000 square feet statewide. 25% of our buildings are 20 fourseven facilities, of correctional facilities, mental health care facilities, labs, safe police barracks. So with that comes usually higher use and more maintenance intensive. Of

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: those 27, which one? You said there's correctional facilities, there is police barracks in mental health, which would be our state hospital in Berlin, as well as our step down residential facility up in Essex. And Middlesex, those four beds in the trailer. Of those, which one were to get the most abuse? Maybe abuse isn't the right word, but which one really, the buildings really suffer the most? Probably our correctional facilities. What do you see in our correctional facilities? The damage or maintenance? Big maintenance?

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: Don't Yeah, everything is steel. So in this environment, a lot of our exterior steel rusts, we need to replace doors often, things like that. Our mechanical systems, our youngest correctional facility is over 20 years old.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Is it the age of the facility, or is it just the constant use of the facility?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: I think

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: it's a combination. They're older, but they're used heavily all the time. There is no downtime.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And what about our mental health facilities? Like this little one, the step down. The trailers, of course, in Middlesex are going to

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: take I don't see as many major maintenance projects come in there, but I think they're both newer. Ten years or so and younger.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: They're, madam chair, while they're 20 fourseven facilities, using the correctional facilities, and this is probably not the best way to, is hard. I mean, those systems run all the time, water, kitchen, all the floors, the security, it's constant and it's at a higher level than the other facilities that Lauren is talking about. And major maintenance is everything. You all know this, it's roofs, it's windows, it's systems, it's heating systems, it's floors, halls, walls, and stalls. Yes.

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: Our major maintenance projects typically focus on what we call priority one items. So priority one would be something that is a life safety or a code compliance issue, equipment that's at end of life or a system failure is imminent, or if that system were allowed to fail, would be really disruptive to the operation of the facility. We have approximately $2,700,000 left in the funds appropriated to us to get us through to July 1. So for the next six months, that's about the major maintenance funding that we have left.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Shawn, did you have anything?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: So where is the you said that, is that figure? Yeah.

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: It's the 12, which includes the FY '27 money.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: If you like that, you can

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: take that away. Got it.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Thank you.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Joe? So if you could identify yourself.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: For the record, Joe Luneau, director of Sonic Construction with Building and Services. I know last year, we had roughly another 2 point something billion in our major maintenance and said, you know, that's where we were at. We also had projects in the queue and had income with the money, and that was really the money that was left over. The money that Lauren's talking about right now is and she'll get into a little bit more how she breaks up the money and assigns it. But that's all we have till July 1. There is very few projects in the queue Plus we don't have any old money to rely on. And again, she's gonna get to this in the next couple of slides.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So I'm just trying to figure out the answer to Shawn's question. Where is the 2,000,000 2.7? Yes.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: In the balance, we have the new 27 both bonded and cash funds coming through in the balance.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: You subtract the 8.5 and the 1.2 from the 12,000,000, balance.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yes.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: There's a delay.

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: Okay. So how we manage our major maintenance funds. So work orders that come in or work orders that come in that are too large, or complex for our operations and maintenance staff to complete themselves, they go on what we call a deferred maintenance list. So the deferred maintenance list constantly has items being added to it as they arise. And then twice a year, we select major maintenance projects to fund from that deferred maintenance list. And we use approximately half the appropriation that we get from the first half selecting projects and then the second half of selecting projects. The operations and maintenance districts will prioritize their most critical projects in their district. And then we take all of that together, look at it statewide, and we prioritize our projects based on the individual district's priorities, the estimated cost of the project, and the available major maintenance funds that we have. And then those selected projects, we call those planned projects, and they get assigned to a project manager. We average about 60 projects every time we do this project selection cycle that gets assigned out to project managers. And then projects that are not funded will stay on that deferred maintenance list, and they get considered the next time we go through a selection cycle. We do hold some major maintenance funds aside for unplanned and emergency projects. So unplanned would be something that was probably on the deferred maintenance list, but we thought we had more time before it was gonna need to be replaced, and it's failed early. A recent yes. No. Not finished.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: No. We got some questions. Just keep going. Okay. Okay. You want

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: me to keep going? Yeah.

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: Okay. Yeah. So an example of an unplanned, we recently had a snow melt controller, for sidewalks at Middlebury Court that failed. So not an emergency, but it should be replaced that not go that entire winter. And then the other piece of that would be emergency projects. And so two recent emergencies was a roof leak at Asa Bloomer.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: then we

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: also had a cooler go down at Northern State in their kitchen. So it made it smooth. So I interrupt at a quick stopping point when I see that folks have raised their hands this week. So I'll stop here, but your boss has got her hand.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: I think what I'd like to also share, which was highlighted with the committee, is there are projects that are on the deferred maintenance list that internally we make through process and conversations if the decision to put that into the capital bill as a line item because of maybe the cost because and it's usually just cost I just want to share with you that while we plan and we await approval some of those projects and you're going to hear about it and this is why I bring it up become an emergency. So if we don't plan on spending any money and then the age of boomer starts leaking in multiple places. So while that's a capital bill item that Joe's going to talk about because that's just another example we've had to use our major maintenance in significant amounts to fix the leaks. You've a backfill. And well, I think we'd probably, I'm going to use an estimate again, dollars 400,000 or more. Well, that's a one for AIDS and Bloomer. The new one's 200,000 We spent 300 Yes. But we've probably spent about 400,000 roughly on repairs out of this fund for a roof replacement we really need to do. So that's the correlation between major deferred maintenance and also some of our capital build items.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So, Ron and then Troy.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Lauren or whoever can answer this, but historically, is having 2,700,000 in January low? Or is it kind of what you usually have in the bank right now, just for context for new people? I

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: have some more information on that on the next slide, but this is low.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Okay. Yes. Thanks. That's good to know.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And I just want to point out to the committee. This committee used to fund major maintenance at about $12,000,000 I think, Madam Chairman, you're going remember in your history, And I think as COVID and other things occur and flooding, this was a section that easy to reduce, right? Because the use wasn't as high. So we are seeing that trend because shifted, we're seeing the trend go back up. That's all I want to say.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Troy?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: First, I think it's just an assumption that I might want to check if it's not accurate. So a work order comes in. It's going to get assigned to deferred maintenance. Is that a dynamic? Like, you make a judgment as far as priority? Like, it's not necessarily a chronological list. It's you move it where you think it belongs on the list.

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: Yes. So work orders come in all the time. And then the program chief from operations and maintenance and I sit down, and we go through them every other week. We're looking at the new ones that have come in. And we say, sometimes things come in that belong as a line item. So we're identifying the ones that belong as major maintenance. And we're building that list so that when we're meeting with the district managers to go over what's most critical. When the work order gets put in, it asks for a priority. So usually, they're picking something then. And then if we have additional information that's come in, it may have come in as a priority too, which is kind of like, keep it on your radar. We're having some problems with it, but it's not critical yet. That may change if we start having roof leaks. We might change it from

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: a two to a one. And then what's the longest that something remains on the deferred list? What's the longest item on there now? How long has it been there?

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: Well, we switched systems, so they all have a drop dead date of a few years ago, but probably three or four years. It depends on when someone put it on there and what other things have come up. Under five? Hopefully, but I couldn't say 100%.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So when do you get to a point, I'm thinking basically about correctional facilities? I would assume there's a lot of maintenance, ongoing maintenance at all of our facilities, but also a lot of deferred maintenance. What are you seeing for our correctional facilities in terms of the maintenance and deferred maintenance? Are some of them coming up to the top that there's a lot of maintenance required. And then when that does happen, when do we come to a point that we look at, is it worth investing in this particular building? Or is it worth doing something different? They're intertwined.

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: There's always a lot of items for correctional facilities on the list. We try and group things together. If we're going to be disruptive, we try and do those things around the same time because the facilities can only have so many projects going on at once. Probably a recent example would be when we did the door control projects. We did some major maintenance items at the same time because we had to close buildings in order to do that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: But are there some facilities that are really coming up to the top that they've been painting a lot more maintenance because of age and years? Some correction facilities. Joe?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yes and no. The age is one thing when you're looking at things, and that's where sort of where it may go on the list because we've done a facility condition assessments. Like, you know, the air handler is 20 years old. It's a motor, fan, couple of things in there to make it keep working. That actually can do minor repairs and kick it down the road as opposed to the roof leak when a work order comes in, and it may be just the roof leak. But we come to find out the roof maintenance has been maintained in this roof leak for years and all of a sudden now it's to the point of failure. And that's where you know, certainly in professional facilities probably those become more emergent than you would in an office building. Because in an recreational facility, you can't send people home. We're in the office, you could take time, you could move people out. So that's all part of it. But systems fail differently for different reasons. There are some air handling units that are twice in fact prematurely fail. Some of our boilers and air handlers have been for years. You know, up until the HVAC project having a state house, they're mostly from the seventies. And they just keep going. And then a lot of it has is dependent on maintenance. Proper maintenance will extend that.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Prosper maintenance.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Was just trying to get to a point, particularly with our correctional facilities, does it get to a point that the maintenance that is required in the building is so high and the costs so high that it's really time to say, do we continue with this bill? Because we've had those conversations about the Chittenden facility for years. Because they had that facility itself in the past had about $15,000,000 worth of deferred maintenance, if not more. So I just wanna put that on the table that it's a balancing act. Do you keep expending major maintenance dollars in the building that at some point in time really should be replaced. You know what I'm getting at?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: I know where you're getting at. And I think that I'm processing how we could sort of measure that with what you're saying. Let us go back and think about it. I'm curious. Mean, our buildings are aging out. But I think Joe's comment about if we invest in maintenance, you can make those facilities last a lot. Just because they're old doesn't mean they're falling down. It's what we invest in them and how we take care of them. And I wanna say to the committee, think Lauren made a really good point that I just wanna repeat and that it is very difficult to work in correctional facilities. We have a great relationship with corrections, but there's process, there's process on who can work in there, there's process of your tools, there's process how you have to enter them. Lauren talked about the example where shut down the wing and they did the door locks. She took the opportunity to realign money while they were in there to make those other improvements. So we don't just walk in and walk around our correctional facilities with screwdrivers and hammers, but if we have a relationship with them, they will call us. We do numerous calls 20 fourseven, we always have someone ready to support the correctional facilities. They are the correctional facilities And it's not like going into an office and renovate. And I think that's a really important point. So we try to maximize where we can.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: With all those security enhancements that you have to do, that increases the cost of the project, whatever it might be, because there's time involved in the staff coming and going out of that field, where normally they just walk in and start work, but you can have a half hour to an hour delay before they actually do any of the work. That increases the cost of that particular project.

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: And there's times and windows,

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: I believe, Lauren, when you have to schedule and project manage those. It's not like we might do in the evening buildings, in the standard building. You don't have that flexibility. Correct.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Next slide.

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: So on this slide, the left chart shows our deferred maintenance, that's the value of our deferred maintenance list in purple. Major maintenance appropriations are shown in green, and then the actual major maintenance money that's spent or encumbered is shown blue. So you can see that every year we have exceeded our appropriation in the amount of major maintenance money spent, and that is because we've been able to use the prior year major maintenance funds that we've had to make up the difference. For fiscal year '26, the spent and encumbered amounts is through twelvethirty one. Since that time, since I put this table together, I have assigned about 300,000 in additional major maintenance funds per request that have come in. We have slowed our spending down because of the amount of money that we have left. So we've put some projects back on the deferred maintenance list, and then we are only working on unplanned projects that really shouldn't wait and emergencies at this point. Some deferred projects that are on this list include flooring, siding, window replacements. We have plaster repairs, roof replacements, a couple of facilities needing brick or pointing, parking lots to be repaved. The deferred list currently has over 180 items on it It's a point in time, so there's new things that are coming in all the time. And then the right chart shows a breakdown, to explain how we've been able to spend more than our appropriation. Spending the oldest money first. We were using mostly old funds for fiscal year '22. And then you can see that that proportion has been shifting each year as there's less and less old money for us to use. We've been using more of the current appropriation. And for FY '26, the majority of our spending has come from the money that we got in July. So about 90% has come from funds we got in July. And we were on track to spend about 12,000,000 for fiscal year twenty six, but given the amount of money that we have left, we've made adjustments. So

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: in FY '22 and FY '23, there wasn't much work happening during COVID. So a lot of this, that money, the 6.7 and the 5.4 being available in FY twenty two and FY twenty three is really money that had been previously appropriated, but you couldn't get out the door because projects weren't going forward because of COVID. Correct. So that's why you had such old money there. So I just wanna put that in perspective for folks. The the question going forward, do we wanna cut them? Do we wanna have our numbers, the amount they have to work with so close to what is really needed during that fiscal year so that they don't have a buffer? That's really the question before us. Do we wanna cut it so close for them that they just don't have any flexibility?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And madam chair, this aligns with the budget adjustment number. We are trying to get some of that room, and it's money we will spend. It is projects that will move on. It is not money that sits. Right.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: And in the past, I've also had minimal staff. When we were down five, six project managers, we're almost at full staff right now.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And you had a lot of retirements.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: There's there's that too. I mean, Sometimes there were no bids. Sometimes we had one bid.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: The other thing too that I think is part of the conversation is when there is a low unemployment rate and contractors are really busy And we go out to bid. They may not bid or the bids may come in because they don't need the work. So the bids come in a lot higher. When contractors need work, there's gonna be more bidding on our projects, and the prices will be more competitive. So that plays in as well. Troy?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. I wanna bring the repo deadlines into this as well. And my question or my wondering is, is major maintenance different enough to where the statute might wanna recognize that? Because right now, when we look at the spreadsheets, we look at what's three years old, what's five years old, what do we need justification on. But you're always gonna spend it. So that's I'm I'm just wondering, is is major maintenance different? Right? This isn't this isn't a project that has fallen behind or is no longer gonna happen like some of the other categories that we're looking at in repo. Does my question make sense? Yeah. Do you have a thought on that? I I don't know.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: I'm never giving a bad thought, but as you stated, it's a revolving door. You know, projects go on the list. They get completed, and anything that maintenance started two years ago is completely gone. And that funding that's sitting there, it's not the best. It's been we can't just get it out the door. But now I think you're gonna be seeing the next several years, eighty five where we're spending it right down to the vetting room. Will be as we are today January, looking at just emergency and unpaid money.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Because last year, if if the committee will remember, we clawed back money because statute requires us to do that, and we just reassigned it to the same place.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Right. At least.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: So that was a workaround to the policy as it's stated. But if we're going be doing that more and more and more, that to me says maybe the statute isn't appropriately applied for at least this section of the capital bill. That's what I'm thinking.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And I think, too, I just want to put this on the table for folks to balance out. BGS does have the authority to move money between projects in their section. So, you know, is a planning and reuse line. There's the contingency line. There's other projects. I'm not saying we want them to depend on that, but I just wanna also put that piece of information out there that up to a certain limit, they do have the ability to move money around fiscal year between projects. So Emily, you want to weigh in? Could you just identify yourself for the record?

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: Emily, it's Sandy. I'm Deputy Commissioner DGS for the record. And I want to echo Director Ager's points and your thought that major maintenance money is always needed. There is always going to be work to do. So to the extent we can keep all their money that's available to us, which we're not having lately, would be helpful. And then, that contingency line, which there will be a slide on it in this presentation, that is available to us if needed. And I think right now, there's times where we're talking about that money as an option where we have these emergency scenarios arising and we need a source of funding for it. So that is an option. But then, of course, that reduces our ability to use it for planning and other purposes. But yeah, that sort of contingency option is something that we discuss and can utilize if needed. And I think that's where we're at right now, given our funding.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Not that we want to depend on them having that ability to move money around, but I want to put that on the table so that it's a balanced discussion for the committee members. Maybe Repo, you do take the statute for the reallocations. Come in with a recommendation.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: I mean,

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: it's there to protect not having bonded dollars sit there for years and years and years. That's why those clawback deadlines are there. But yeah, we can we can

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: There's clawback deadlines for the cap for the bonded dollars.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: That's 2 and 5. Cash is 2 and 3.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Right. But there's also cash too.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: That's a three year that's getting into.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Right.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So anyway, just to balance the thinking out while we do far. And I don't wanna short sight major maintenance. I know we always go to major maintenance. And if we have something left on the bottom line, we'll say, we'll add it to major maintenance. Or if we need the bottom line to to total out, we'll pull it from major maintenance. It's been habit for a long time. It's been

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Like the gibbies part better. Like the gibbies part better. It was fun. By

[Unidentified Committee Member]: definition, I think the major maintenance is things you

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: have

[Unidentified Committee Member]: to do to maintain the facility as opposed to things we would like to do because we think it's the right thing to do. So, maintenance, as long as we don't have more money in there than the deferred maintenance list, I think it's pretty obvious that everybody knows we need to do that. We don't have a choice to maintain the facility if we don't do that eventually. So yeah, I think you're right off, Troy.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: To your point, sir, the list doesn't change. The delay cost us more. Right.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Okay. Anything else on this one before we move on? Then I take a Joe's comment. Yes. Beautiful.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Thank you, Orange. Thank you so much.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: That wasn't too bad for you.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: You did great.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: You'll get your start. Okay. So what the governor has proposed for major maintenance is we put in last year 8.5 and bonded for FY '27. Governor has accepted that 8.5 in bonded money for FY '27 and added 1,281,000.000 in cash. We did not have any cash in FY '27 for major maintenance. So the governor's up that for FY '27 by 1,280,000.00 $81,000,000. Okay? So that's a shift. That's a budget adjustment.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Isn't any cash for f y twenty seven, by definition, has added this in the adjustment. Correct?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: The bonded money has changed too.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: But but last year but just remain to the cash. We we didn't allocate any '27 cash in the first year for two year budget. That's added.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: We we put in 1,500,000.0 cash in f y twenty six.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Correct. But there was no

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: There was no cash in f y twenty seven.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Because you don't know what it is last year. Okay.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: But this particular one. Thank

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: you. Moving on. Next line item up is planning, reducing contingency. And we touched on it a little bit today, past, presentations also. So we use for planning. We had projects that are not on the books yet, but it's something that perhaps we should look into. So we do a study. Mary, I mentioned to you last time I was here about looking at the public safety facility, the old facility in Williston. And that could it be used for something else because the language of this capital bill was to see whether or not the town of Williston was interested in it. They had said no. So it's right now being utilized by public safety. And I also mentioned to you that, there's a potential of a light going in to help out and create a new intersection there. So is that something that we could use? So that's what our planning money is for, to do an evaluation on that. We put a study, say, how can we repurpose this property? And do we need it? And then we get into contingency. Sorry, reuse. So reuse is something where something comes up and it's not a plan moved by us, a renovation by us. Something happens that it could be the fact that there could be a roof leak, and we temporarily relocate people someplace. Or we need them because we're moving offices around, whether in a complex or something else, wasn't planned. And so we use the reuse money to effectively make that move. It's also some construction sometimes that goes into that. And so that's what reuse is for. And then we have contingency. The contingency is capped at a 100,000. After a $100,000, we then have to go to the secretary and then to the e board after 200,000. So the commissioner does have up to a $100,000 that she can use out of this fund for other projects. Right now, we had committed roughly 200 $420,000. And in here, we're looking at 120 And 111 State Street. That's gonna come up a little bit later than the fact that we have a large project coming down the road here due to flood. If we were to start the renovation of 120 State Street, and that was a full, not a complete gut, but a full renovation from the basement all the way up the roof with all new HVAC and electric. And that would require people moving out temporarily going to a swing space. So we were looking at this and going, well, that could impact how we work with what we need to do with the flood. So what we're doing is holding on that until we get to the flood so that they can better work together so that we don't end up with you know, we should have waited on that because the flood's dealing with it or something along those lines. You, sir. So can I just

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: I think this is really important to talk about this? So when you see the reallocations on 01/2020 01/2011, it aligns with what Joe was just talking about, right? Because we don't want to make an investment in these buildings. And then when we've come to agreement with FEMA, the systems may be looking different. What's really important that I want members of this committee to hear is that these 120 Straight Street and 111 and those needs are critical. The building and the system within DMV, 120 State, still call it DMV, they need to be replaced. We continually spend some major maintenance money on this, but we really talked about, and we talked about when is the right time because these projects 120 was on the books before it flooded, right? And so I just want to emphasize that it's not that we don't have the capacity or we don't want to do it. These are difficult projects and they've got to be done at the right time and they need to align with sometimes everything else going on. And the other piece Joe I just would like to highlight on is the contingency and I think most of you have enough experience now in this committee. We phase funds projects. We build up the bank to get them done. We use cost estimators. We use all of technology today that you have to do to put a project together. We don't control bids. We, you know, there's costs associated with them locating, it may be the cost that they're paying their employees, and we don't want to reject every bid. And sometimes when we come to you, we do a really good job to update you on increases and we look at those, but, and I always say this, and we put inflation in it and we add other things, but our estimates to you are the best estimates that we can give you at that point in time. That doesn't mean what the bid is gonna come in. So this money, this is really where you give us the ability to continue moving forward with the project instead of saying, my gosh, have no room, we got to go back to the legislature and it gets delayed and then it can possibly.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Joseph, before you go, just like in our intimacy, we're talking about 120 and 111. Is that building is that Middlesex? This is the Middlesex. Yes. I just thinking like we're talking about one to do with We're talking about one thing we're talking about. Just a picture of a plot of

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: That's tough.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Okay. I just wanna make sure that I was not thinking something completely wrong. I'm sure I did yeah. I have a question from what you just said.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Certainly. So

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: it it like, what is the game plan right now with State Street? Is it it it Oh, 120. Is DMV? That's right back here, right?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: That's 120 across. It houses DMV, Department of Human Resources, some of our maintenance staff, and ADS. What's the plan with 120 or what is the plan with State Street? No, 120. So the plan with 120, what we're proposing, so we need to replace the whole radiation, the radiation, radiator heating systems, HVAC. We have some deterioration of the walls from the steam and so the radiators have to come out. That project has to be done. Joe, I hope if I'm wrong,

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: you sell me, but you've

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: made me smarter. It's four by four and it's a complete mechanical heating HVAC system. And so that project, that's been on the books, Madam Chair,

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: I think Put in you. I think we

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: had 8,000,000 at one time for it. It is not an easy project. Those individuals in that building, those services to Joe's point have to be real, we have to figure that all out. As we are working and trying to finalize with FEMA regarding the capital complex, right, which way are we going, As we do that, we are trying to do the best design and look at options. And Joe, you're gonna correct me, can we do on each side of the street one mechanical system to support all of these buildings? Because all the buildings that were flooded, we have to replace those items. So we're trying to be thoughtful, we're looking at alternatives. So let's just say we could do a mechanical building and system on that side of the street, we don't want to invest this money and have a building with its own, we'd want to connect it. So that's my simple way of saying we're just resetting our thoughts about 01/2020 and we don't think we need to do that building and we will be back for money there's no question about it But do we expand our planning to include that building so we can maximize dollars, maximum you know, get the best system. What would you like to add to that,

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Joe? More money, sir.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: I'm sorry I missed this. But if you look, we've put in, in FY '27, dollars 2,000,000 for 126th So Street how is this connected to that 2,000,000?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: What Joe it's not what Joe was saying is that's an example of how we can use planning and reuse to to realign. Right, Joe? Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So are you using any of that 420,000 for planning and reuse for the 120 State Street steam line interior renovation?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yeah. It's really about now that we're in a slide deck further down, there is that line item for 120 State Street. In reality, those funds back because of what the commissioner just said. We're going to be working. We need to know what FEMA is going to pay for and what our option is going forward. So it's really about also then retaking the 121.11 and what do we do in advance on how that's going to work with potentially FEMA. Because FEMA is not going to have funds for us to do that. So it's how do we incorporate that and what really takes place? So under the example of the HVAC is how does that work? Where is is it gonna connect to the building and how much of that?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: So, director, your slide says committed 04/2020, and you have 120 And 111 State Street. And I think that's where the chair is trying to say. How are you gonna you're we're reallocating old money, but we're gonna use some of this for this project.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: You're reallocating. If I go to the back page for 120 Renovations HVAC line 186, you're reallocating 1,000,000,000 cash.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Okay? We've also put in 2,000,000 in f y twenty seven of bonded money for 120 State Street HVAC. Eddie, following us?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yeah. We're

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: here. And you've also reallocated on lines 192 HVAC lines at 1.5 cash. So there's $2,500,000 worth of cash that have been reallocated. And we've kept the governor has kept $2,000,000 of bond in FY twenty seven for the project.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: And I'll point out that it's a similar thing. If you go to line 114, the governor is recommending $500,000 to Utah, which is also currently

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: listed

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: here as using client dues and contingency.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: I'm just trying to track this. This is all I'm to do. Have things changed? We appropriating more than we need to. Is it or not? You see what I'm saying to you? Yes. So we're reallocating 2,500,000.0 in a cash. Do you want to do planning, trying to figure out what you're going to do going forward? But then we've got 2,000,000 of bonded dollars in FY twenty seven for the same project. And how much do we have in the bank from this previous project of bondage? We've been doing this project for a long time, twenty. Yes.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Think, Madam Chair, follow-up with more detail on

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: this specific project before you had mentioned our facility. With this slide, it's really doing specific planning for possibilities. So like Joe had said, with the use of our facility, taking some of the planning money to assess our site in Williston, a former police barracks, to see if it could be suitable for that purpose. Would placement of that facility work on this site? So that's what we're using some of the planning money work. Not construction costs, not going to that level, but really doing some exploration. And I think same thing with 01/2011, Joe had mentioned reserving some of that fund for some of that planning work and the possibility that we might need to do some space. So it's really related but somewhat early stage planning work is what we're using those funds for.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: But we'll just I understand that one for the user, or however you pronounce that facility. I understand that because what you're putting in and we'll get into this, the half million cash. We'll get into what that half million will be used for. It's actual project design or actual get out there and do some renovations. We'll get into that. But the $1.20, I really wanna look at that a little bit more. Am

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: I moving on to and I'll look into it now, the two days ago?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Did the committee follow? Yeah. Follow that for 01:20?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Mhmm.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And 111 State Street, what building is that?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Supreme Court Building. Yeah. That was adding a floor back in the library section

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: decks. What's the status of 108?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: We don't have a purchasing sales agreement in place. During some due diligent work, some things were pointed out to us that potential hazards. There used to be a Gax station in a on the site. Great. Double whammy. So

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: in this section, Madam Chair, that one is called out for some additional site investigation work that would be undertaken to understand the site conditions better. We did have Within this planning reuse? Yes. Yes. So that's some of the money that is committed is for planning to use for that investigation work. We did have a purchase and sale. It expired. We're still in discussion with a potential buyer, but this is investigation work that needs to be done to better understand the site conditions. So unfortunately, stuff that we have to take and see what it tells us.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So that would be for the gas station dry cleaner, she said. Is that where the garage is now, or was that

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yes. It is where the garage Well,

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: I think it's that. We don't We don't. We just left. I apologize for having chair. I just walked in and shared about that. Don't know if there's anything you want

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: to add. Oh, no. I just shared for this planning money, it'll be for some site investigation work just to learn more about site conditions.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Well, I'm not an engineer but right now it's contained. It's when you choose to demolish but because we've had and Emily but because we've been working with an individual on the purchase we've done the assessment so it has now been identified.

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: Hazardous listed now. It's a hazardous site.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So you have

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: to plan for that. Yes.

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: And we do have to continue the process to move on to a phase two assessment, again, see what it tells us and go from there.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Gina? How deep is that parking garage? How many stories is that parking garage?

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: Three or three. Underground?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: We didn't build this building. We didn't build the parking for a station in dry cleaners.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: You come in on ground level.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: You come in on You

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: come in on ground level, and then

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: you go up down.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: And you go down for parking. Oh, yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Took a tour about two years ago. Three years. And what that looks like in I mean,

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: you get to pour through the concrete to see if there's any

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: The building?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Anything left underneath it.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: The building is on top of the garage.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. No. I'm just saying if they've removed, you know, three stories of earth, you'd think that they got whatever gas leak You would think, but dry cleaning stuff is left there.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Would just make sense. I'm sorry. I'm say government. Don't forget.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And and I'm gonna say No.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: It wasn't state government that built it. It was not state government that built it. The garage was privately owned, privately built. And the building was the building on top of the garage at this time?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yeah. No.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: We We built the building.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: The garage was not built by the state. We took it over because it was getting old and the company didn't want to keep it. They offered it to the state. Needed space very much.

[Lauren Washburn (Major Maintenance Program, BGS)]: We needed to stay out

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: of town.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So it was a private company that built it. Had And the garage for what fifteen years or so before? Wasn't that all?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: But I think it's important that at the time that was built, we probably had different standards on sites. Again, there's appropriate protocol where you can encapsulate and so this is very common I think you know you guys have I think Burlington has experienced it many schools so at the time or you know so I'm not saying it's okay but now we have due diligence with that and I want to say we don't know we've actually pulled records because I'm curious my team we are trying to find some of the original records of what was conveyed to us at the time of purchase.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: When was that? Was it the 90s we got that lady?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: No, want to say it was in the 80s. We almost, when I started in '96 or '99, it was Yeah,

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: all, well, I'm trying to think because I came on this committee in '90 I think

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: it was John Saint Buellard.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: I came on this committee in '93, and I have a hunch it was around that time. Who built the garage? Was it Gauley?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: No. Bobby Miller.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: No. Bobby Miller. Bobby Miller was the owner.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yeah.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Big builder. Okay.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: That was built. See how it constructed.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Right. I think there's a lot of of different opinions around this. So I'm a little sensitive because, you know, he bought it. He probably hired someone to build it. And we just, we don't have all of that information, right? We talk about it like we do, but I just want to emphasize that I really want to understand and I want to see what our records show. You know, when we built, this was probably one of the first underground parking garages. We lived in a state that was heavy use on salt, studded tires were probably at every house on every vehicle. Those two things, you can get no parking garages designed for that. And that's where we started getting the deterioration and the rust and everything into the columns.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Same thing with the Asa Bloomer Building.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Well you're gonna see it with 32 Cherry Street.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: The Asa Bloomer Building was owned by a private company. We bought that in the 90s.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Know, parking garages require an enormous amount of maintenance I think it's been one of those items that underground, out of sight, we can take to deal with it later. Next winter won't be that hard And and, you know, and this is you know, and I go to Lauren, you know, there's never enough money for parking garages. You funded this parking garage, I believe, twice, and we reallocated it because it was so enormous.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: No one would rather than to sell it.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And you decided to sell it. But Dave Burley, Joe and I have talked about it, you funded it, we were going to break it down, we were going to do in pieces, and it's enormous. Joe and I talked about it, this type of work is so, it's huge, it's overwhelming. Sorry, Joe, you know, I just had a little tash.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Don't ever own the parking garage. That's

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: not You can't.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: You just gotta maintain. You gotta really maintain it, be committed to it.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: You have to be invested in the investment of that. No. Do you have a part and broad plan?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: At the end.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: You're supposed to

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: say you

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: have. The $9.44

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: that you got left, that's for the that's through f y twenty seven. Correct.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And madam chair, I know that our spend on this goes like that, but I think what Joe has been trying to present is that we believe based on what's on the books, we're going to see the demand come in '27, And that's why he's giving you some of those examples. And what I appreciate is the fungibility that you give me for planning reuse and contingency.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Right. So maybe this question was asked, but you use these funds for reuse or repurposing of existing space. So when there was the governor's recommend to call employees back to the office workspace, Was any of the dollars here used for any repurposing of existing space at all?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: No. And, Joe, you're gonna correct me. I think we have a limit on the reuse, don't we? It's the same as 100,000?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: I don't think we have a limit.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Oh, okay.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: But I think we've they're typically not large projects. You're most likely to put people, you know, this room, the other room, or something like that. It hasn't been up.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Right. I think one of the common things is the session ends, it may be I mean, we haven't done this for a long time, but you may modify a program or add a service. That's where reuse would go in and we would go in to accommodate that customer in making that adjustment. Planning and contingency are the higher, contingency is the number one that would come out of here and then planning.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So my question was any of this money used to update any of the office space for the return to work? I just want to be clear. That's all.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And and ma'am, and I think and I know you've had conversations on this, and, you know, there's one location where it was a lease. We wouldn't use this money on leased property.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And the lease payment for that office space in Waterbury is not going to be leased out. That lease payment is coming from the departments that are going to be housed there and that's normal operating? Yes. Whenever we lease property, the department or entity that is in that property pays that lease through their operating.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Right, so we in property management, so we stay current with the owners of the property, we will pay so the departments or agencies agree to the terms of the lease and we all sign off on it and then those payments are made when we back charge and basically it's just we pay it, we designate it and then it the bill goes through the system to the department and it's back charged and it comes back into the properties management fund because we want to ensure all payments to, I think we have 1980s or something. I don't know, I know why I have that number, that they're made monthly.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Because that question has come up with other colleagues trying to figure out this. And

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: if a department wants to do something to a leased space, so I'll use Barrie City Place, and they want to do some interior renovations or they want to move staff around to do modifications, we look at it, this is what property management does and we determine if it's part of the lease, if it's costs that should be amended in the lease, and if it's not, then the department has to find the funds within their budget to make those modifications.

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: Typically, that's the scenario. Usually it is wrapped into the lease because as privately leased space, the landlord needs to approve and often will seize the work. One example of this happening recently has been at City Center. There's been a lot of changes in that lease space. The Cannabis Control Board and Department of Financial Regulation recently downsized their footprint, but they also did a renovation of their existing space, more open office environment. And that was something that they did with the landlord. BGS was in a supporting role to help them plan and design that. But ultimately, it was rolled into the lease frame.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Anything else on this? Yeah. Let's keep going.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Next up would have been physical security enhancement. As stated earlier, the commissioner is going to come back and talk to you about this one. Three acre stormwater compliance. We finally have our permits in place for a few sites for Milkshake, St. Albans and Pittsford. And those projects will be out to bid next month or two. Northern State Correction Facility, we should be seeing the permit coming on that one soon also. We may be able to get that one out to bid also.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Which one is that? In Newport?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: In Newport. Correct. Waterbury is also in the works. So as for gents, we do have the permit for regents. When we were down there talking with the zoning department and presenting our plan to them, they were looking at us correcting the sidewalk that runs along there. I don't know who constructed the sidewalk. They believed it was the state and it's like, why aren't we taking care of the sidewalk? They go through their storm water funds It was something that we could look at. So with all the changes that took place with us at Perjens, we put a hold on that one that just will move down to the bottom of the list. And then Montpelier, including Department of Labor is on hold right now until we know what we're doing with FEMA and the flood. Shawn? Do you have any update with the FEMA sitch?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: No, it's,

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Doug is

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: taking the lead and I think he could give you more detailed updates. He is in conversations. We are anticipating that we are going to hear something by March on our request. That could happen before. Don't think it I think they have a requirement. That's why you'd have to talk to Doug. I think there is a deliverable from them. Details on that is in March. I'm looking at Emily. I think there's a deadline if they have to respond to us.

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: No, there's a deadline of I

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: think

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: it's March 15 or thirty days after we receive a final offer, fixed cost offer, whichever is sooner for the state to accept the offer. So, and I just want

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: to emphasize is accept, negotiate or so we may get something but and we may be negotiating or Doug will be. So it's not a final process in March.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: There's a up in March.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: There's a heads up.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And I just want this committee to know, Joe and the gentleman on his team, Ethan and BGS, we work very closely with Doug. We have an architect on and the amount of work and the estimates and the detail. We could fill this desk with reams of paper. So while you don't hear anything, I just want to say to this committee, it is all hands on deck, and it's an enormous amount of time. And while we're doing that, Joe's spending money.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Thank you.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: You're a lot of fun.

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Taking our curiosity with the Regina sidewalk, is there is that typical? The state puts in a sidewalk on a on state land and then the municipality expects that to be perpetual sort of upkeep from the state?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Not that I'm aware of. Okay. I I know Portland zoning is where our public safety facility is. Their zoning up there is that, you know, if you're doing some site work and whatnot or new build, you will put a sidewalk in. But maintain it? For main because the owner would maintain it until I think it's a complete loop. So when it went in for gens, I don't know. So

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: the 5,800,000.0 will get you through how much is the Middlesex, St. Albans, Pittsford? And how much is that gonna be?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: St.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Is estimated at a million. Saint Albans is what? A million?

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: Yes. It's

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: I know 6 is probably around 300, but I'm not sure.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yeah. Saint Albans, I think, is the largest. And then what about Prince Rupert?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Prince Rupert would be between Middlesex and St. Albans cost wise. There's lot of work that's being done, but I don't have the estimate.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And at least that's who's what?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Around 300, but I don't know exact number.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Less than a million. So those are gonna be going out to bid in February. Middlesex, St. Ottoman's, Pittsburgh. Would the Newport facility be next? Is the permit is almost done?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: It wouldn't be. And now one has some decent work up here that it's not easy. Lauren has done a lot of her work up at Newport. She built the stormwater pond. Last time now, we were having a discussion with ANR over whether or not it's sized properly or not, whether we gotta enlarge it.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So is this connected at all that you need to get this done before you get that boiler?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: No. It'd be in addition to. So when the boiler comes online, that is more impervious surface.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: In terms of access to the building and everything, do you need to have the stormwater structure? Does that have to be more in place first before you really get into the boiler or the boiler.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Is it

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: a chicken and egg situation?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: It is for construction purposes. So we don't wanna be doing both at the same time. That would be just way too much.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And that's why we postponed it a little bit over time. Not last time, but the time before we found

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: But I think if we get it permitted and construction this year, we would not overlap.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: You mean the storm water?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: The storm water with the boiler. Right. Yes. They're always good.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: They're both kinda contingent on each other. And there's so for the Newport boiler, the governor put in $2,000,000 in cash, and we have money still left from previous appropriations for the boiler. Let's figure that out when we have your folks back in. Yes.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: But I guess it's fine to do that. Right.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Any other questions?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: State buildings. Yeah. He's had a past presentation, I wanna say, two weeks ago. Yep. State buildings. So it is in our section. I have a slide on that. Next up, Ace of Bloomer Buildings, the roof repair. So the sewer work is ongoing. We've we've stopped water infiltration coming in. The sewer line is fully connected right now. It's not complete. It's pretty close now that it's all new pipe, everything running through the building out to city of Rollins system. And so that project has these two projects have been together from the inception. It's just that we were doing working on sewer first. That project is almost complete. We're now heading for the roof repair. It was mentioned earlier by the commissioner, when it rains or when the weather warms up and there's snow on the roof, it rains inside. A considerable amount.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: It's just water detail. Right. It's not just the skylight. It is multiple places in the room. And I want the committee to know that HS customer services daily reaching out to Vermonters is located on those floors where the water pours in, and that's how the building is and we and we work we've and the last twelve months we've had some pretty significant water damage, which creates a whole other problem for the

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: building and serious leaks.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Joe, is that a is that like a some kind of a polycarbonate roof It like, that sees you see through it? Skylight? Yes. Well, is that a is that the roof or a skylight? It's a skylight, and that too is being replaced under this project. It for multiple reasons. One, it's original to when the building was constructed. It leaks. It also has a problem as the snow slides off the roof, it builds up. The roof insulation is our value is different than the sidewall of the skyline. So you get condensation like Right. The lower Right. Photo here, you can see under a beam right there where it just has sheeted and bubbles through the paint. Yep. We are So that whole big thing up there is a skylight. When you say a skylight It it's a sizable We're not talking a Velux four by four. Garage. No. Is not. No. That's a separate one.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Oh, okay. It's not on the Anyway This is a building we did not build.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: It was No. We did not build it. It was in

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: the nineties we bought it.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Right. It was it came in too expensive, and so it was a pivot.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Wasn't it how wasn't Now

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: the original agreement, this is one of those we've got two unique projects. Had an agreement, and I'm going back, that we would purchase it and a portion of our lease went into it. So this was always when the state entered into this in the early 90s or late 80s that was always the idea. Built this was the multi modal right we built the bus station we built the parking lot.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: That was in there right there.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And then there was this building. We've always been in the building, but it was owned and other spaces were leased. And the treasury, if you just want to highlight on that, because I think that's important.

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: I don't have all the details but I do know there's a difference in the way we treat the funds. And it's for this building in St. Albans? Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Funds, which funds? And

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: maybe we should come back, Emily and I, can give you a hint. These are the treasury bonds so they were two specific projects that the state entered into certain agreements and it was an outcome of a development lease.

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: If we could get refresh our recollection and follow-up. So we're stuttering.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: When you mentioned the St. Albans one. St. Albans Office Building. One is in

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: the same category as that, but this was the first property we did in that manner. So Yeah. We'll get you a couple of baylets on that because we're both sitting in pipe.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yeah. And this skylight thing is not new. I mean, I'm looking back, we have looked at this over the past few years to take care of this. And I remember specifically in '23, even last year we talked, it would be the skylight. It's still not being done. Was it the sewer came in as an emergency?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: It wasn't an emergency, but it was needed to be repaired before the skylight moved.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And I'll tell you, committee, we could not have done this soon enough because we were having sewer issues and employees were It was a little rough this year with that, and I think that's really important. And again, this particular project, I think last year or in the last twelve months, we did one repair that was significant, hundreds of thousands of dollars. And then in Jan, it was December or January, they just had another huge leave and we're spending this is we're reallocating major maintenance because we have employees in there and we've got to protect the building.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Troy?

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: Just when will the project be finished and does 3.6 do that 3,600,000.0 get you there?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Perhaps. Perhaps. See. With our best estimates, yes. They should get us to completion. When? By the end of the summer, hopefully.

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: The

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: plans are already completed.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: K.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Right next door and attached is the multi level garage renovation. So it's a little time the last time I was up here mentioning Mhmm. What's going on. So we have looked at this project and we're assuming that the additional funding that they were asking for now will complete the top priority items in saving that In the coming years, because of the it's really long term maintenance that we'll be doing that, we'll be possibly back for more money. Depends on how that is broken out. But right now, what we're asking for should complete the areas that where the chunks of concrete has falled off and we've got to protect some of the exposed rebar, encapsulate that both for structural reasons and to prevent it from rushing further.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And I just want to say to the committee, this is how one hundred eight Charity started. And I'm really being sincere and then we kept deferring. So I think we can't go back there, but I think the structures are very similar that you're showing.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yes,

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: sir. But this hasn't completely rusted what you see, but give it time.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: The bonus in this one is it's open to the air. At 1 Way Cherry Street, it's in the ground, and there's only an exhaust two exhaust fans that will provide any airflow in there. This at least has a better opportunity to be drying it so the salt water doesn't seep in the pipe. So

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: what building is on top?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: That is a whole parking structure.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: It's the whole parking structure itself.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Okay. And if you remember, madam chair, this was built with AOT and were federal dollars to create the multi level Yep. Model.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yep. And then we had to take ownership. I was on transportation at that time.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: You were?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yep. Early two thousand. 2002, 2003.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: So sometimes PTSD is inherent to poverty.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yes. This one will be controversial.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Do you have any sense of what the utilization rate of that garage is? It's noted it's five ninety one spots.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: The Paramount uses this a lot, doesn't it?

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: We can follow-up. We do know that information. The day to day operations of the garage are managed by as a contractor. And so they oversee, again, the day to day parking in and out. And we can pull those numbers use. And paramount use it. The whole city

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: uses it. We at one time back in the early 2000s, we had security there, we had the parking garage, we had parking attendants, people had to pay, and so operation became more difficult because the city wanted it accessible to the community, which made sense. So we entered into agreement with the city who then contracts with LAS and they maintain, they operate it, they do the tickets, they we have to do the repairs. It's like it's like a lease. So we're really leasing it to them. I will tell you, they do a phenomenal job. It is one of the cleanest parking garages that I've seen. And we get so many spaces for our employees that are in

[Emily Boedecker (Deputy Commissioner, BGS)]: the building that is attached. It's similar again to the St. Albans not the same construct but in St. Albans where we have a certain number of spaces designated for state employees So again, similar concept, different structure of ownership.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yeah, like you don't own it.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Right, well we own this one. But it makes sense to have those partnerships and those operations because this is a heavy day to day for if PGS had to staff and operate and provide the security and collect the funds. We are responsible for major maintenance. We are responsible, because we own it. It's what Joe was showing you. We're saying all this.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: We don't own it.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: We don't own it we pay for it so parking garages are still being built there's still logic behind them but it's really the operation of it

[Unidentified Committee Member]: but I'm just curious if like the peak utilization is 80% or 30%?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: I think you're going to see it's high actually.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: That could be. All of

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: the transit buses go through here, the downtown lease spaces, the state leases spaces and then they keep it open for the Paramount Theater and other community activities. It's heavily used right in downtown. The buses for that whole region and for those counties, they're moving through there all the time. I went and sat a bunch all day, so I was really It's not like one bus, it's multiple buses.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Anything else?

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: The whole trip she does remember.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Maybe.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: You bet. And it's probably 20% and I'm gonna be embarrassed.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: So this sounds like a lot

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: of parking spots, I doubt that. Next up is the Pittsburgh Academy firing range upwards. Over the years, this range has seen a multitude of renovations

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Mhmm.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Getting it closer and closer to almost being enclosed, but it's all due about safety, whether it's rounds escaping from the rain and or the weather coming in. And as you can see on the bottom right photo, you can see the sun coming in and lighting up the ground. The same issue though is it also allows the rain and the snow to come in. So when officers and or people going through the criminal justice training process, they get in there and they have to approach their targets. I believe the first one is at three yards and then going back to 50. So when the snow and the ice gets in there, it becomes very hazardous to be using the range, be able to walk down range when the ground is frozen. And during training and have a pistol in your hand practicing or shooting. So this is to design a fully complete structure. It still will be open air. The reason for the open air is because of the potential build up of lead. Depends on the we have three options. One, we're just doing the roof. One is to also be extracting all the lead that's in the earth bank that is there to finally do away with it. And then the anybody who uses the range will then have to go to steel copper shells as opposed to casings as opposed to using lead casings and lead bolts. So there's that option. And then there's also an option out there where they would like a longer range. And so that option is providing two shooting ranges alongside of the east side of the range, it would be extending this out further. It hasn't solidified yet on what option to do.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So that 200,000 is really going into planning and design, trying to figure out what we're gonna be doing. So if if there is a decision to do a longer range, that will impact your roof. Would assume

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Just the roof in that area would have to be longer or, you know, ends up being l shaped in the works of that because of that.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And what about the Earth Bank? Where is that? Is that showing in any

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: the bottom The Earth Bank is no longer being used at the end of this range, and now it looks under this whole track. And they're very

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: I think it was from way back. Right. That's what I'm remembering.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Stray bullets. Yes. There were stray bullets. And lead at

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: the bearing. Yeah, there's a tremendous amount of lead there. This traps the lead, and every three to four years, I think it was, remember, dollars 30,000, 40,000 to clean the lead traps out? It was a high amount have a company come in and clean that lead trap out. It's just not a trough that catches them. There are other I don't know if the material is rubber ball or something like that. So the bolts do not keep percussion around, but then traps the bolts. That all has to be cleaned out every so often, because you need the ratio of that material versus your bullets to be on the low side of bullets.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So if they convert to copper, steel, copper bullets, would this whole issue eventually just go away?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: You would still be pointing the bullets out of the trap, but it wouldn't be hazardous.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Wouldn't be hazardous. So is there a way to switch from lead bullets to the steel copper?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Last time I had a discussion with them, they were leaning towards that, But that would be up to the council. Criminal justice council? Oh. Yes. To take that call.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: What is on there? The laughter.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Who pays for the ammunition of a trip one cost?

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: That would be the

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: The council. The council. The council. The letter to the taxpayer and

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: steals. It's out of a general fund, either way, you're paying state dollars to take care of the hazardous waste from the lead or you're paying and I don't know what the cost would be of steel copper bullets versus lead bullets. I mean, you'd have to balance that all out in terms of what you're paying for the cleanup of lead bull. That's a balance that you have to do.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Just have a quick clarifying question. Did you when when Alice asked you about the roof at the end, you said something about an potentially an l sheet. Yeah. That would be option of having a longer range for for the shooting inside of a controlled area, then that roof would have to extend over that part of the range also. Understood I that part. But did I misunderstood you when you said this? Or did I hear wrong about l shape? Well, that would be the roof because you'd have a major portion of the existing lanes and you had to and extend it maybe another 25 yards. It's more of a a golf club, I would say, than a l shaped. Okay. That roof would be have to be extended down that range.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So the 200,000 basically just get you the design documents?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: And an estimate of what that cost is going to be.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Would it be construction documents or schemata?

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: I think we get to construction documents. It would not be construction administrations.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And this is one of the projects, I just, you know, as everyone puts their capital bills together, is, you know, public safety and to train the center's priorities, which you, you're very familiar with, madam chair.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: Yes. It hasn't bonded f y '27. Mhmm. That's just for deciding. Right. To get us to construction documents. K. We're gonna wait on the State House.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yep. Okay. Perfect. We're gonna come to the Montoya State House with pointing. There is a lag. I don't get to see that. As I presented on this last year, so what this project is doing is we've had a firm come in who, US Heritage Group, who knows about, line cutting mortar. And they did a thorough investigation of the State House, top down, all sides. And they decided our problem with the rust spots and the darkening stains that you see on the granite is due to high moisture. Moisture He's getting near, sir. So to do that, to prevent the moisture from coming in, it's about the roof, the gutters, and also the mortar itself and how it is applied. Line putting mortar goes through a curing process. It's early on and you have to keep it damp. Not wet, but damp in the first, I forget now, like ten days. And that's when it actually cures. So what we first have to do here is sacrifice all the mortar joints that are already in place, because they will help extract the moisture as we work our way down and fix the roofs, fix the gutters, the windows, the doors, and the likes of that where water is coming in. Then there'll be several years that we'll be able to then start chasing around the building, completing repointing on different sides. And once we prevent the moisture from coming in, it will dry out, but it will still have to be repointed in the

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: I'm going go to London first.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: Madam Chair, thank you. I just want to say to the committee, this is a great example of a major maintenance project. It's your state house and I know that we have other items that we're going to talk about at another time regarding the State House but when you're thinking about it it doesn't matter what we do at the State House if it's security related if it's lawn related if it's an addition this is a major maintenance item that doesn't fit. That's the correlation I want to make. We have, you've got to make an investment in this. This will just continue as Joe talked about And I think one of the members in this community meeting, they have gone out last year and tested the grout. They evaluated it. Did you do that? I think, oh, I thought you went and looked at it. Which one? This.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Say

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: it again? Say

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: mean, I've walked around and looked at it. But

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: I think the correlation that I'm trying to make is that this is a great example of maintenance.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: Yeah. It is.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And it's something that we can't do within that, and this is how it becomes a project of its its own. And and I encourage you in the spring to walk around and look at it.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: It's very able. It's really evident.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: It

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: is. See, it's just walking in and out of the building. I showed it to Laura Truth, and I said that looks just And this is going to

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: be unique. Joe talked about this last year, Finding the right order, finding this is not just taking well it's taking the caulking out that we put in that has But created other

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: yeah. So these funds will start the design process and also lay out a plan going forward of what should be tackled first and what those estimates are going to be.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And Joe, this was 26 money and we didn't move on it this past year.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: We're developing the RFP right now. Yeah.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: So I think it's important for the committee to understand too. Oh, that's the last part. You

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: probably mentioned this last year, if you tell me enough times, I will remember. Once we re point this, get all the wrong stuff out, get all the good stuff in, What is the timeframe for or is there where for that bottom upper right bottom where it's brown to turn back to white or will it always be stained? If we stop the moisture migrating through the granite, we can actually clean the granite and pull the moisture and the staining out, and then it will be done. It will be multiple years, but.

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: And that's the other piece that I think support the season and the weather has

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: to be just ready to

[Wanda Manoli (Commissioner of Buildings & General Services)]: do this work. Correct, Joe? Correct. Yeah.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: And can't do it in winter, I would have solved.

[Joseph "Joe" Luneau (Director of Design & Construction, BGS)]: No. You don't want a hot, windy day either.

[Alice M. Emmons (Chair, House Corrections & Institutions)]: So I'm looking at the time and we have at 11:00, the sergeant Arms coming in with our Capitol Police Security Training. And I want to be respectful of their schedule. Do folks want to quickly finish? We got, like, three well, we got more than a minute. I think this would be a good stopping point so that we can take a break and be back here quickly for security training. We will be going into executive session for that security training. So we'll have to make a motion to go into security session. Into executive session. So will Why don't you work with Tate to schedule finishing up 01:20? Finishing up your section, see what we can do. We also wanna get into the correctional facilities too at the same time. So let's go off live and take a quick break and

[Troy Headrick (Ranking Member)]: please