Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Alice M. Emmons]: Welcome folks. This is House Corrections and Institutions Committee. It is January 8, Thursday, January 8. And we're starting our morning meeting

[Joe Aja]: time, and

[Alice M. Emmons]: we are working with the Department of Buildings and General Services to give us an update in terms of where we are on some of our projects that we funded in the FY '26 budget. We're halfway through that fiscal year, and we're doing checking to see where we are. So we have with us the Department of Buildings and General Services, Joe Asia. Welcome, Joe. It's a good afternoon. How about yourself for the record?

[Joe Aja]: For the record, Joe Asia, Director design and construction with buildings and general services.

[Alice M. Emmons]: It's all yours, and I'm assuming you have a document you're gonna put up on the screen?

[Joe Aja]: Yes.

[William "Will" Greer]: Everything's ahead of schedule and on their budget, right?

[Joe Aja]: Yeah, you bet. We gotta go home. What's the proof? I've done this. I've come in.

[James Gregoire]: There goes out. We share.

[Alice M. Emmons]: We have There we go. Something on our side?

[James Gregoire]: I think my fingers work in

[Joe Aja]: the mask properly. That's all. Yeah. Okay. I'm sure for what I put together today is the section two update, specifically fiscal year '26 items. Going forward, first up, we have major maintenance. Major maintenance, there's a lot of these smaller projects that are many of are line items in the capital bill. We try to limit the cost to 150,000 per project item. In the past, when we did have when we were behind in spending, that sort of worked out quite well to get some of the larger projects done. However, as you can see here in the dollars, we had our past funding term right now. All I have left for major maintenance is $3,000,000

[Alice M. Emmons]: For the rest of the year.

[Joe Aja]: For the rest of the year. That is correct. So we've actually have gone through and looked at our projects and rearranged. We've had two boilers fail and frozen coils at the health lab. So those emergency projects come out of this major maintenance.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So the boilers that fell, were they at the health lab? They

[Joe Aja]: were not available. One was at the Multi Model Building, and I forget where the other boiler was.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So half life is fairly new. That half life

[Joe Aja]: is $1,500. Well, we did have an issue with the boiler farm. It was the coils that froze up whenever we had that cold season. So that's where some of that major maintenance money goes to, with projects like that. So right now, we're not starting any new projects with major maintenance right now. If it's in the design phase, it's continuing. Some of these projects are also outdoor, so they wouldn't be going out until springtime. And we'll just play the game of managing our funds here. And when the fiscal year comes around, those projects that are either placed on hold or done or designed or ready to go to construction, we would put those forward.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So in the past at this time of the year, Is the 3,000,000 pretty on target or is that really less than what you've traditionally had?

[Joe Aja]: It started out with four project managers working in Waterbury with Irene, we had a bubble. And then COVID hit, we also had a bubble. That bubble is now gone.

[Alice M. Emmons]: The bubble of extra cash.

[Joe Aja]: The extra cash, right? Because we could not also have a short employee. So we couldn't get it up and go fast enough. We were spending roughly 11,000,000 a year for that, we're doing that both. So we had been working on it, now we're down to just what you give us.

[Alice M. Emmons]: 8,000,000. Yes. Yep. So

[Kevin Winter]: just I don't know if this is the most appropriate time to ask this, but between the f y twenty six bond and cash, how did that like, do you know if you're using more of the cash fund? How was that more accessible and easier to use? Or have you guys been relying on the bond portion of that more?

[Joe Aja]: With the cash, we spend the cash first.

[Kevin Winter]: First. So

[Joe Aja]: that's what we look to. I think right now there may be $311 left in cash. I can't repo 26. That could patch a hole in the roof. Hard to say. But that's cash first. I didn't understand the answer to We using so when we get bonded in cash funds, we will use the cash funds

[Alice M. Emmons]: first.

[William "Will" Greer]: Going back Alice's question to share his question. 24,000,000 was set aside or appropriated for two years of maintenance. We are now down to 3,000,000.

[Alice M. Emmons]: No. That's FY '24, FY '25, FY '26, and FY '26 cash for a total of 24.5.

[Joe Aja]: Right. That's three years.

[William "Will" Greer]: So that's three years. Right? Mhmm. I did not understand your your answer to to our chair. Is $3,000,000 saying we are potentially a major risk because we have twelve months we need to survive on $3,000,000

[Joe Aja]: Just months.

[Alice M. Emmons]: It's six. Just to be oh, that's in FY '26. So we're halfway through our fiscal year.

[William "Will" Greer]: Not as bad as I was okay.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Thank you.

[Joe Aja]: I just didn't understand. What is

[Alice M. Emmons]: in the budget for f y twenty seven that we've put in is another eight point five month. Yes. And what Joe said, traditionally in the past, we did have a higher bonding level. We had a higher capital bill passed. We would put in about 11,000,000. But now we only have $50,000,000. In the past, we would have 60 or 70 or 80,000,000. Wow. So our bonding capacity and our cash has decreased. But when we were totally bonded, we had a higher capital for the total bonds, and then we could have put in more money for major maintenance. So that's that's why there's that 2,000,000, $3,000,000 difference. Mhmm.

[Kevin Winter]: The $311 can paint that wall right there.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Just the wall.

[James Gregoire]: Oh, you have to

[Joe Aja]: we're trying paint

[James Gregoire]: it first.

[Joe Aja]: It's no. We don't well, we that would be painting the wall more like fee for space because it's just the one not the room. So that's sort of where our fee for space and major maintenance is, but it it's difficult. You know? Some of the times, it's a high cost, even if it may look like we would go to fee for space, but it's something that a major maintenance.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Is this the boring the

[Joe Aja]: I'm liking it. I'm trying, Mary.

[James Gregoire]: I'm trying. To give you

[Alice M. Emmons]: context, though. Last year, when we were going through them pulling out our documents from last year, you had 2,600,000.0 at this point. That was the balance Yeah. Last year. At this time. That's just what you folks put together last year. Yes.

[Joe Aja]: That's 300,000 I had this year.

[Alice M. Emmons]: At 2.6. So

[Joe Aja]: But that was also some of I know we had some old money coming back. So when I say we have old money coming back, when we put a project out for design, design, work of the works, we do our best guess for what there's going to be for reimbursables, travel, stuff like that, that goes to the design team. All that doesn't always get expended. So then that would come back and then we would reuse that money someplace else. So once that contract is closed out, then it comes back in. This year, though, I don't foresee a lot of that happening in the next six months.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Anything else before we look on? Okay. Next, planning and reuse and contingency.

[Joe Aja]: The commissioner? Yeah, go back. In three acres. There we go. So on planning, we're using contingency planning. Our projects that are not line items are something that we would like to look into to see whether or not it's worth asking for funds to develop a project. Presently right now, one of the projects that we're working on is the old Williston Public Safety Facility.

[James Gregoire]: This is the south, right?

[Joe Aja]: Well, do the old barracks. Yes. And what we're looking at is the town of Williston had potentially wanted in and buying that from us, and they chose not to. There is a developer out there who was thinking of adding a road that goes in behind the facility, put a light in, and then continue across the drive to get you to the Metro that's in there now. But that adding that light, that was one of the major issues of pulling out of that building is we were headed south. We should get across those lanes to head south. If that low light goes in, having that building may be viable for us. For what, don't know. So what we're looking to do is analyze the structure, the envelope of the building, to see whether or not it is worth it for us to repurpose. Yes. Because if we had something that could go there, we're already on the line, and it would just be what we would have to do to the building. The building was constructed, I think in the sixties. Because we did do some major renovations to it, be bringing it up to today's codes. But again, not knowing what that cost is. So that's why we're using planning funds to evaluate that. Get an idea. Did you say is

[James Gregoire]: the light definitely going in?

[Joe Aja]: I don't think it's definitely going in. We were just approached and said, what if? Nobody knows. Transportation had looked at that.

[James Gregoire]: The notice on the side side of that property? Yes. Okay.

[Joe Aja]: Between us and the gas station. So that would certainly look more viable to use that because you could easily come out with

[Kevin Winter]: a light beam right there.

[Alice M. Emmons]: There's gonna be a light right there that there is

[Joe Aja]: The sketch that I saw showed adding a drive coming into our property on the backside. So they allowed you enough space to queue up at the light. So it has potential.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Is there still storage being held? I mean, I know we put in money to try to build another storage area, but is the storage in the back of the building still being used? Yes.

[Joe Aja]: Right now, the front of it, the upstairs into Wollstone completes their homeless shelter, and they are still in there, I think, the end of this year.

[Kevin Winter]: There's cars out there a lot. There's seven or eight cars. But

[Joe Aja]: public safety has been throwing a few items in there still.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So what could that building be repurposed for? Would it be office space? Would it be for public safety still? Would it be for

[Joe Aja]: Don't know until we complete a study to see, you know, is it worth it? How much work do we have to do the building to bring it up to code? And then potentially ideas of renovation. The way public safety used it, the back half was for storage of their vehicles, side bay, overhead doors. The front of it is a two story structure. So that seal could be used that way. Or could you divide it all, put a mezzanine in the storage area and have sizable space? What would you use that for? I have no idea at this point.

[Alice M. Emmons]: I just thought.

[Joe Aja]: The best of the plan is for.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Is it too large for forensic?

[Joe Aja]: Don't know.

[Kevin Winter]: Austin, I agree with me. I second that, Mary.

[James Gregoire]: Just the derivative of where it is, it's purely valuable property. The Yankee has so much ability.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Well, we'll see what's in the governor's proposal, proposed budget. Right?

[Joe Aja]: Would say this.

[Alice M. Emmons]: A couple of weeks ago.

[James Gregoire]: Yeah. That was a 10.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Okay. Let's really now get into this one.

[Joe Aja]: And so on reuse, reuse is for unplanned changes in programmatic needs. So if we're looking to shift space on other departments and agencies, that is used for fitting up cost. We used some of those funds when we sold 13 and went through and consolidated them into six Baldwin. It's typically not a large amount of dollars. That's projects like that is what it would be used for. And then finally, there's contingency. So if we run over on a line item project, the commissioner has authority to a $100,000 to spend on that overage without having to wait and come back. So it keeps our projects moving.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So that contingency, if you haven't touched it, and say your major maintenance is getting a little tight come April, you could pull some from contingency to backfill major maintenance.

[Joe Aja]: Commissioner has authority to move running around in each section. Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Folks keep that in mind. And What

[William "Will" Greer]: was the cap to that?

[James Gregoire]: How much you can move?

[Joe Aja]: A 100 caps. 200. If it's moving inside, there is no cap on moving it inside of that section.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Inside. It's your too.

[Joe Aja]: But outside of the section? There is still Different process. It is. Yeah. Through the secretary or the dean board. Thank you.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So within the BGS section of state buildings, which is this first section two of the capital bill, the commissioner has authority to move money between all those projects, and there's no CAC. Will, you look a little confused. You got it? Yeah. And then the commissioner can also lose money from other sections with BGS, but you need the Secretary of the Administration and the e board if it's over a certain. We've done that in the past. Forgot what project it was. Willis Thomas gonna say Willis Thomas. And that usually happens on obsession. Yes. K.

[Joe Aja]: Yeah. K. All good. Previous storm water. Permitting has taken us longer to get through. Permitting right now, we have permitted for Middlesex, Northwest, The Gens, and permit for Pittsburgh, we almost have that. It's just from back and forth on the permanent. So those projects will go out to bid shortly and be ready for construction in the spring. Can you repeat which ones those are? Middlesex, Northwest State Crest facility in St. Albans, and Pittsford facility.

[Alice M. Emmons]: And then after construction this spring?

[Joe Aja]: Yes. Waterbury and Northern State Correctional Facility, their permits are about 90%, 95% complete. As soon as we have permits for that and get those early, we will also put those out to bid. Then Montpelier is the only one we've placed on hold because of the flood. So that there may be some hazardous mitigation that will go into place because of the flood and didn't want to be overlapping that work. So right now we placed them.

[Alice M. Emmons]: For sure.

[James Gregoire]: And this is work

[Kevin Winter]: that you're following to be done at these sites from that three acre storm water compliance that was passed, what, a few years ago? Yes. And it's taking the water that comes out of this facility or off these buildings putting it

[Alice M. Emmons]: in In lots.

[Kevin Winter]: In lots. Parking lots, puts it into a holding kind of

[Joe Aja]: thing. It could be a rain garden. It could be a holding tank that then slowly disperses that water. Yes. Got it. It could even be a pond.

[Kevin Winter]: Ten four.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So of those one, two, three, four projects that you're anticipating going to construction in April?

[Joe Aja]: Or if not, yes. Can get out there and

[Alice M. Emmons]: How do much of the 4.7 is gonna be used?

[Joe Aja]: My guess is probably all of it. But I'm not sure until we get the bids. We've been seeing bids lately that are high and lower than we expected. So I think it's who doesn't have work, bids are coming in very reasonable. Good.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Any chance?

[Joe Aja]: You said Mount Pleurier was on hold. Is it still on hold? Is it? Yes. We we should be hearing soon from FEMA I know you what's happening with Mount Pleur. I know you used to pull this issue out last year, but can you remind me where that one where that's supposed to be here? Like, where On this side of the street, the North Side of State Street, there's only one two areas that that system could go into. It's State House Lawn and over the 133 Parking Lot. 133 Parking Lot years ago, we had designed it for storm water. So we have rain gardens over there that accept that. So if you go to 133 Parking Lot, there are two islands in the center and then the edges of that on both the north and the south east and west sides of the parking lot. There are rain gardens where that water goes to. So we would either augment that or put tanks in to disperse the water. Thank you. And what so the picture behind you, just I just I gotta I get

[Kevin Winter]: I just gotta do this because my gut's telling me. So the picture you got up there, what's that of?

[Joe Aja]: That is Northwest State Correctional Facility. So there's so it's surrounded by, on two sides, forest, and on other two sides, grass. Yes. K. So when it rains, where does the water go? These small squares over here Yep. Are satellite I mean, I'm sorry. Satellite. Solar. Solar. The site flows this way. Yep. We'll be doing storm water here, here, and a little bit, right in this area here. But, like, when there's

[James Gregoire]: a big rainstorm. A lot of

[Joe Aja]: it is captured as a sheet flow running off. And so that's where it'll be captured inside of the yard. A lot of that is also wetlands. Inside the fence, there are no wetlands. Outside the fence, most of it is wetlands. Do you have

[Kevin Winter]: I don't know where.

[Joe Aja]: This area here is not.

[James Gregoire]: Yeah. Yeah. If if I remember oh, I'm sorry, Shawn.

[Joe Aja]: No. Go ahead, John.

[James Gregoire]: But part of it was that that the stone from the driveway had expanded, so there's more impermeable surface than

[Joe Aja]: there needed to be. Driveway and dirt, stone, purpose.

[James Gregoire]: So that that but that part of it is to narrow that up and

[Joe Aja]: You're correct. Yes. We are right now, it's a gravel drive. So both in Saint Albans and Newport, we're going to pave those, So it does narrow it down. However, the rules do not allow us to take full credit of that. I think it's only 50%.

[James Gregoire]: Really? That's it's not hard. But I I know you don't make the rule. Thanks, Joe. It's a

[Joe Aja]: good question, Doug.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So for the capital complex, FEMA Peelier, you've been working with Doug Farnam, and he's now working with FEMA on this. I would I know that there's not much of an update, but there's a little bit of an update. And I have no idea you submitted quick little report. I would like to schedule some quick some time for that to deal with that. Would Doug be the one to have come in? Doug Farnham, as well as you folks?

[Joe Aja]: I'd say he definitely would. I'd like

[Alice M. Emmons]: to schedule some time for that, just to bring an update for the committee.

[Kevin Winter]: Anything

[James Gregoire]: else Skipping's for carrying that?

[Joe Aja]: Yes. The curator wants

[James Gregoire]: to go and talk about that. What's this? Security. Security.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Oh, the commissioner of BGS. Yes. Wants to come in and talk about security. Yes.

[Joe Aja]: Another one of our favorite projects next to parking garages is the Ace Of Bloomer Building. Well underway. The photos you see here, the top right photo is inside the box culvert. The other two with the sewage and rainwater being in there. And the other two photos are where the contractor is removing all these sludge below that water level. If I could pull this off, we have a we do have a water problem under us. Their history has shown that there are two brooks running through. What can you use the building? Yes. And part of that so part of the problem is when they were cleaning it, it does not show. Let me get my technology in place. So while we're cleaning that trench, this is the amount of water that's actually groundwater that is flowing through into that box culvert while they're trying to clean it. So they've been doing pumping and everything else to minimize this so that we could actually get in there and clean it and stop the water flow. So we've done injection, routing, and everything else to stop that. Now we're connected via pipe through our foundation wall to the city. And we now have worked that out. So we're well on our way to getting that job completed.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So did that contribute to when they would have an overflow around the building and Rutland? Did that contribute to that? No.

[Joe Aja]: But it was still part of the issue of that was their combined stormwater and sewer, also some gradient issues.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So it wasn't connected. These two brook streams underneath the building did not add on to that issue?

[Joe Aja]: No. All that was doing was taking what's coming into the building and put it into a pipe instead of a box. All were Right. Put it it out. Overflowed. It came up through our basement slab.

[James Gregoire]: So you're out of money right now.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Yes. And I should Is the project complete?

[Joe Aja]: It's not complete. I'm gonna say be a 100% completed in late fall of this year.

[Alice M. Emmons]: But a 100% completed in late fall, is that still within that 3,900,000.0?

[Joe Aja]: Yes. So we we we have a contract in place with the contractor, and we're spending it down, but that has consumed all of the dollars. Okay.

[Alice M. Emmons]: House.

[Joe Aja]: The multi modal garage renovation down in Rutland, which is right next to Ace of Bloomer. It also has leaks, but it's ruining the structure by the source of salt in there. Presently, we have the design is complete. We plan out to build with a construction manager. And right now we're dealing and negotiating on the guaranteed maximum price. And once we have that in place, that will start.

[James Gregoire]: Can you remind me what spalling is? Is that pulling away from

[Joe Aja]: the frame? Yes. If you look here at this one right here, we're here tracked and above that, it's these right in here you see where concrete is going away from the base and it's falling off because the rebar that's in there has rusted and has expanded. And I forget the ratio of what that expansion is, but it's quite sizable.

[Kevin Winter]: Salt hits it and then the rust expands it. Yes, correct. Concrete doesn't like that.

[Joe Aja]: No, certainly the poured concrete is precast. You have so many joints in precast for the water to run into. Oh, freeze. They're what? Eight feet wide, 10 feet wide.

[Kevin Winter]: Is there new designs for are there new designs for, like, parking garages now to to mitigate the the salt getting into the

[Joe Aja]: That I don't know. I think maybe changing some of the concrete itself that is better for it. They've also come out with stainless steel rebar versus epoxy coated. Gotcha. That sort of holds up better. It's about maintenance, though. I know we're not doing one zero eight anymore. But five years ago, I think now when we started with 108, our consulting engineer told us that we should probably be spending about $250,000 a year on maintenance on that garage. And that's multiple cleaning certainly throughout the winter. Hard part of the winter is washing it down. You don't have a warm day, Friday afternoon is on a warm day. And so that is part of it. And so when they do start to thaw and freeze, that water migrates. Gotcha.

[Kevin Winter]: Oh, I see. Get rid of it before it gets into the into the jogging.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Can't do it in the winter because there'll be a sheet of

[Kevin Winter]: I see.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Give a little salt on to melt the ice.

[Joe Aja]: It's just circles. Actually skipped. Well, I didn't skip. I forgot to actually put it in here. There was a state house repointing project.

[James Gregoire]: Oh, yeah. Like Oh, repointing. There.

[Joe Aja]: We have not started that yet.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So

[Joe Aja]: we're, you know, drafting of an RFP, but it's not out on the street yet.

[Alice M. Emmons]: It's a pretty project.

[Joe Aja]: Yes. Onto print and postal, the uninterruptible power supply upgrades for the all the postal machines that basically, all the ones that are connected to the hard drive. When they lose power and it crashes, that hard drive system does not like that. So they have a smaller UPS that they're working on right now, and basically, a plug and play. Now they do have, for reasons of keeping their work ongoing, you're looking at machines. You would have to unplug one machine when there's a power outage and plug the other one in. There is a generator on the site, but again, it's that lapse of just half a second that they would still lose it.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So how far along are we?

[Joe Aja]: We're in completing the design development phase. We'll be going to construction documents. We believe we'll be out about April, May.

[Alice M. Emmons]: After bid.

[Joe Aja]: After bid. And it's an expensive project for the construction side of things. It's really about that's where most of the money's going, is removing the old one, bring bring the new one in, and connect it into the existing power panels that are there.

[Alice M. Emmons]: I saw some hands, but I guess.

[Joe Aja]: So is

[Alice M. Emmons]: the 308,000 anticipated to take care of the project?

[Joe Aja]: Yes. We had had an estimate last year coming into this when we asked for the additional funds. Wattenberg State Office Complex, placement of the historic roofs at site. We've had a contractor on-site. They have completed buildings B, C, and D. And here on the plan here, you can see them on the right hand side. We were not sure what the costs were going to be. So we did an alternate add to the project when we put it out to bid. And that add was for Building F, which is on the left hand side of the center court, just in case our estimates were high. Well, in fact, they were.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So when you say B, C and D are complete, roofing has been completed?

[Joe Aja]: That is correct. And we had an alternate add, and we have added Building F, but due to the weather, they're got on and on the roofs. So that'll take place in the spring. And then what we'll do is we will from what we've learned dollar wise, assume of what going forward, what we're going to need for funding. And I believe in our ask, we'll be fine. I will find out more in Building F. On some of the other buildings on B, C, And D, we found that some of the brick coursing on the top of the building, the motor had failed and was loose. And we also found rock in the rafters, and we had to replace those. Not significant. We were able to keep moving. Again, I don't know how much of that we will find in other buildings.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So to look at that little diagram of A, B, C, D, the buildings, where you see A, that is the new building that we built after Irene.

[James Gregoire]: That is correct.

[Alice M. Emmons]: And where you see all the other buildings that are gray is the historic part of the complex that we renovated inside after Irene.

[Joe Aja]: So when we came in, we came at the top of that picture? We came in at eight. Yeah, in the top Yes. Of So

[Alice M. Emmons]: when we renovated and rebuilt the whole Waterbury Complex, we didn't get into the outside of those historic four buildings. Correct? We only worked on the inside. Just so people have a perspective of what we did at Waterbury. So that 2.6 would cover f and maybe an inch.

[Joe Aja]: Inch? It'll be close. Again, it's how much copper is going up. And there's a band of copper. If my knowledge is slight, it has not changed in pricing. But a lot of that cost is also at the staging that you can see here in the photo on the right. The building itself is completely staged so that they can get around.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So that staging also includes the FG and H?

[Joe Aja]: Yeah. So it was staged around those buildings. They moved down, and they'll move it over. Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons]: That's a cost to the project.

[Joe Aja]: Right. And so from what we've learned, when we go back out to bid for the balance, we'll also have it broken out as an ad so that if we do have the additional funds, we can get it done.

[James Gregoire]: Are those round sections included?

[Joe Aja]: The round sections, the turfs are not included in being reroofed. They had been done over the years. The turrets, the round Oh, okay. On the ends of the historic core, you have two round turrets. When when those so are those round turrets part of h? Are they different? And like v they've been reroofed years ago. Okay. They're in a good shape. They are. Yes. Okay.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So I just want some clarity here. I have a balance of 2,600,000.0. You're anticipating that that would do the roofing for f g and h, but the money but it might be a little tight.

[James Gregoire]: Right. Depends on what kind of rot they get into.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So for the committee in FY twenty seven, we also put in two I don't want to get in into it, but is that for more roofing in different parts of the complex?

[Joe Aja]: Yes, that would be the Public Safety Building in Hanks still need to be done. And they were their process of getting B, C and D completed this year, more and more than was about as much as they could get done. So being able to complete G and H and maybe F, G and H is plausible. I think they could do that. Basically worked out the kinks. This is just a mirror image from the other side. So I think they'll be able to get it done. Hanks is probably one of those that although that building is mothballed right now because nobody's in there, to use that one as they have funds left over to reduce that one.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So we hung on to Hanks and Weeks when we redid Irene after Irene's administration was proposing that we get rid of those two buildings. And we've decided here in this committee to hang on to those two buildings. In Weeks, who is in Weeks right now?

[Joe Aja]: HS. Specifically, I don't know. I don't know who's in there, but that's who's in Weeks also.

[Alice M. Emmons]: How many employees would be in there? Do you know?

[Joe Aja]: I do know.

[Alice M. Emmons]: And Hank's, that's been my fault right now.

[Joe Aja]: Correct.

[Alice M. Emmons]: How much could we what could we put in there? Space wise?

[Joe Aja]: Not many. Excuse me. It's all about yeah. When we renovated Weeks, Hanks was also included as an alternate ad. It was a high price. I forget what it was to renovate for twelve, fifteen people that were going to be in there.

[Alice M. Emmons]: It'd be a small amount of

[Joe Aja]: It's one of the first, if not the first building that was on the site. It was offices in the morgue. So historically, everybody wants to keep it. So that's why it's a small ball right now. We heat it in the winter and that's about it. Check for roof leaks, critters, and all that.

[James Gregoire]: Hanks, is that one towards the bottom of

[Joe Aja]: the left hand picture? No. Just from right here. The little small one.

[James Gregoire]: Right. I didn't know if it

[Joe Aja]: Oh, sorry. Corresponded up here. This Hanks picture. Yes. That little building you're pointing to is Hank's tool.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Right there.

[Joe Aja]: The one on the bottom?

[Alice M. Emmons]: Above his head.

[Kevin Winter]: No. No. No. But in

[Joe Aja]: the This one here is Hank's. Hank's. We can't see it. I I I yeah. That's all. I got it.

[Alice M. Emmons]: And I asked that question because with state employees coming back to the office, and we ended up having to lease space in Waterbury. That's why I asked the question if there was any opportunities there between Weeks and Hanks for employees to be housed there.

[Joe Aja]: It needs substantial renovation.

[Alice M. Emmons]: But then it would only be for, like, at most, 12.

[Joe Aja]: Lot of money. And it was 12. And and it was more than 1,000,000 to renovate it.

[Alice M. Emmons]: And that's why we ask these questions. So you balance out decision that was made. You're not on the surface agree with the decision, but then when you look at alternatives, you may find that that decision was the right decision in the long run. So that's how I just put that up on the table for folks to think about. And also in that whole picture of the Waterbury Complex, not last session, but the session before we decided to put 108 Cherry on the market. And we had to move people out of 108 Cherry. And there was agency of human services folks in there along with the Department of Health. The agency of human services folks were providing direct services to clients coming into the building. So, the decision was made that those folks would stay within the Burlington area. We'd relocate them and it was into lease space. The Department of Health, there was a good portion of the Department of Health, and I forgot how many employees worked.

[Joe Aja]: Be, but I don't know.

[Alice M. Emmons]: And he didn't provide direct services to the public. The public wasn't accessing them at that building. So the decision was to move those employees down to the Waterbury Complex because the Waterbury Complex wasn't full because everyone was working remotely. So we did that last session, the session before. Right. We do it To free up empty out one zero eight chair to put on the market. So with the return to work order, there was pressure on the Waterbury Complex because some some of that space was already filled up with the department of health. So that's why not all the employees could fit back into the complex and why they ended up having to lease some space in Waterbury. So I'm just laying that out. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's wrong. Just laying out why those decisions were made.

[Joe Aja]: I have a question. So a history question. So you said that the administration, whichever one, at one time wanted to get rid of the hangs and weeks, you guys made a decision to keep it. Was it for the historical nature of the buildings? Future Future use.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Because it was the buildings at that point were in pretty good shape. They weren't really impacted by the flood as much as

[Joe Aja]: The basement levels were.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Yeah. But they they weren't as impacted as the as the four buildings and further back. And at that that point in time, we just didn't know what was gonna happen. It was back in 2012, 2013. We didn't wanna get rid of state owned buildings till we had more understanding of what was going to happen. Also, built complex to, at first it was going to include over 1,000 employees. Correct me if I'm wrong, Joe. But it was going to include about 10 And thousand the price tag was a little high. And the governor and the administration said, let's dial this back. And we were hoping for, what do we call it, remote work, but telecommuting. That's what we were calling So we were thinking if 200, two fifty employees could do remote work, then we could bring the office space down to about eight hundred, eight hundred and fifty Mhmm. Employees. And that brought the cost of the renovations down because we're anticipating about 200 or so folks could work remotely. And that was back in 2012, twenty thirteen, fourteen when we were doing the whole redoing. So that was the thinking back then. And people didn't wanna do much of the remote work, but they were doing it. And now after COVID, it's totally flipped. So, you know, the space there, we toured it last session. And the session before the previous members of the committee here, we toured it. And all that office space was empty.

[James Gregoire]: Except for the forensics lab.

[Alice M. Emmons]: But that wasn't included. That wasn't included in the rebuild the core, the office space.

[James Gregoire]: Oh, yeah. It was almost empty.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Yeah. That that's what was rebuilt with Irene. And what had originally been in there was the Agency of Natural Resources as well as the Agency of Human Services. And after Irene, the Agency of Natural Resources moved up to National Life. So we rebuilt the Waterbury Complex for the agency of human services. So is that an accurate kind of accurate history there in turn? So we cut back on the number of office space there because the cost was getting a little too high, and we were incorporating remote remote work. Telecommunicating. Telecommunication. Telecommunication. Commuting. So it's just interesting where

[Joe Aja]: we are. Times have changed.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Where we are now ten But plus years the key to we moved down those Department of Health employees here. We moved those down.

[Joe Aja]: That But that

[Kevin Winter]: was before we got there last year. Right?

[Alice M. Emmons]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kevin Winter]: I'd love to see it this year on a day where there's supposed to be a lot of people there.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Different field. We can do that. That would be more during, what, like, Wednesday, Thursdays.

[Joe Aja]: I mean, everybody has different schedules. We shall find out.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Anyway. You should do that.

[James Gregoire]: That's preferably towards the end of the day, because some memory will be so dark after. You can do it at the beginning of the day

[Alice M. Emmons]: beginning of the day where you can meet there.

[James Gregoire]: That's it. Do it either way.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Okay. Let's keep going.

[Joe Aja]: Last up is 32 Cherry Street. Looking good. Garage repairs. The contractor started this week.

[James Gregoire]: Oh, good.

[Joe Aja]: Got there on Monday. Because of the weather, had initially bid on a schedule. They changed up a little bit because of the weather and everything else. However, so far, fourth day in, no complaints. So there are about 10 parking spaces that are being impacted right now that had to be either moved throughout the garage and or across the street. We are renting a few parking spaces in the parking garage there to put up any of that overflow. Project title. The contractor believes they will be done in summer, '27.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Wow. The construction? The actual construction.

[Kevin Winter]: So they're a year and a half.

[Joe Aja]: Complete construction. And, you know, the amount once you start removing that concrete getting down to your steel, replacing the steel. You know? It could go better. It could go worse. Yep.

[Alice M. Emmons]: The project is anticipated to be completed in the summer or fall of next year.

[James Gregoire]: Yes. And will those rented parking like, will that rotate the parking spaces?

[Joe Aja]: Yes. So we move around there. There certain people who are probably better off parking in the garage. So once we move to the next level, they will go

[James Gregoire]: up and reverse. You're renting 10?

[Joe Aja]: Makes sense.

[James Gregoire]: Yeah. Is that typical? Is that will it be more than that as a No.

[Joe Aja]: I don't think so. I think that the way they're looking to move around because they can't do it all at once because of the access that has to be granted. So they're doing it in phases. I don't anticipate it to be more than 10, but maybe 12. For some reason, it happens because all

[Alice M. Emmons]: of

[Joe Aja]: this has to be staged first. So the staging needs to go in so you're supporting that deck. Mhmm. Then you can start cutting into that beam to replace the steel and the likes of that. So it depends could turn out that it's worse, that the concrete just hasn't split and spalled off yet. One point fell off.

[James Gregoire]: Well, we've put in more money for a flight. Has concrete hit

[Alice M. Emmons]: 27.

[Joe Aja]: I'm not sure about 30 ships. In 01/2008, they did. Yeah. Well well, year. 01/2008 wasn't a ship. Has concrete fallen off and hit cuts?

[Kevin Winter]: Oh, got a part in there.

[Alice M. Emmons]: They weren't they were doing it in that way.

[Joe Aja]: That's the 01/2008.

[Alice M. Emmons]: That's one. So there was 2.3 cash for FY '25. Has that all been expended? Do you know?

[Joe Aja]: It has not been expended. It has been encumbered. Encumbered? But because the contractor just started. So this

[Alice M. Emmons]: project that we did put aside half 1,000,000 in FY '27. So there'd be a, at this point, there'd be a half million added to the 1.7. So then when that comes before us, the question is, is the 2,200,000.0 gonna cover the remaining of the project? That would be the question. Okay. That finishes up your section.

[Joe Aja]: Yes.

[Alice M. Emmons]: How much are you Yep. Just for my

[William "Will" Greer]: understanding, Why didn't she show the additional 500,000 in this chart? Because it because we because

[Joe Aja]: next year. Because it's next year. Fiscal year.

[William "Will" Greer]: So So anything in 2020

[Joe Aja]: That's correct. All of this is just up to '26.

[William "Will" Greer]: I know how to work better. Thank you.

[Joe Aja]: And we're gonna get the governor's budget next.

[William "Will" Greer]: May adjust that.

[Alice M. Emmons]: And it may also adjust some things in the '26 budget too. Yes. Somewhere because some of that may not go forward and they may pull it or decrease it and shift it to Yep. 2027. So, Joe, how about the correctional facilities? Do you have updates that you've been working because BGS is the lead in those too. Right? Yes.

[Joe Aja]: We are.

[Alice M. Emmons]: So would you be able to do updates on that?

[Joe Aja]: Not prepared today for that.

[Alice M. Emmons]: But Sometime this week. Sure. And what else would you be don't hear? Would you want any of that?

[Joe Aja]: They're doing some of that, and we could report on that too, public status.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Safety, you're filling in on that? That would be Rutland Field. Yes. And judiciary?

[Joe Aja]: Rutland Field.

[Alice M. Emmons]: I don't you don't need to do it now. I'm just saying what's out there. I'm running all. Mhmm.

[Joe Aja]: That one right now.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Oh, the red one?

[Joe Aja]: The red. Yes. We have to bid for design. Architectural team on that. And so once we have that in place, we'll start the design. So What what's that? Rutland what?

[Alice M. Emmons]: Field service.

[Joe Aja]: For blind safety? Line 106.

[Alice M. Emmons]: That is for total sacred headquarters.

[Joe Aja]: Oh, gotcha. Okay.

[Alice M. Emmons]: Then the courthouse

[Joe Aja]: Is for this one?

[Alice M. Emmons]: You got a question?

[James Gregoire]: And then what?

[Joe Aja]: No. No. No. Just what did Mary ask? I didn't hear. Didn't hear. I did. I did what I said.

[Alice M. Emmons]: And then the courthouses. Can you do an update on the courthouses?

[Joe Aja]: Whatever. They're moving in the end the month. We're down there right now doing final tweaks, trying to get the

[James Gregoire]: Nice. Internet to work. Cool. Good. There are things in

[Joe Aja]: Essex. Or which

[Alice M. Emmons]: Essex County Courthouse, director and security upgrades. County Courthouse, they are asset. That one, don't know. The Newport Courthouse. It's I'm just going through

[Joe Aja]: Newport Courthouse is we still don't have land. So we're still gonna gonna go for a land search.

[Alice M. Emmons]: I have to do more testimony

[Joe Aja]: on Understood.

[Alice M. Emmons]: I'm just thinking for updates here in terms of what BGS works on their projects to come back next week. So there would be the correctional facilities. There would be whatever you are doing at the vet's home. And you can, but some of the court houses. But then I think that that would be it, right? That would be it. The BGS that's involved in them. That makes sense, Phil? Yes. Okay. So Cole or you or somebody could work with Nate, trying to figure out when to schedule. It would be great if it could be a morning. Trying to do capital bills stuff in the morning, do more corrections in the afternoon because I'm trying to juggle our legal staff as well as you folks will be called into institutions committee on the senate side in there in afternoon. Yeah. And I just don't know what their schedule is gonna be for that. So if we could do as much in the morning, even when we get the governor's new budget, if we could do as much in the morning as possible, We'd be at home. Schedule. Yeah. Just to kinda see it because we're really juggling legal staff. Yeah. Particularly within the corrections world because our legal staff is tied up with judiciary committees more in mourning because the senate judiciary committee is a mourning committee. So we've got a balance all of that. And human services and health and welfare, the health and welfare committee in the sense that it's a morning committee. So that ties up some of the people that we need. So if we could do corrections more in the afternoon, then our leave of staff is more available. But it doesn't work out right in a perfect world. We could do that. Anything else before we finish up?

[James Gregoire]: Thank you, Gerald. We're now done one for the year.

[Alice M. Emmons]: No. So we're done a little early because 10:30 is when DOC and WAPAT is coming in. And

[James Gregoire]: and and that's remained to Joe's presentation. Just for clarification, line five, section two, we had our discussion yesterday, which is our state building. I think the proposal yesterday was to suspend the 75. Is that correct?

[Alice M. Emmons]: Was 75 for 26.

[James Gregoire]: It's fine.

[Alice M. Emmons]: It's fine, but the 27 is sort of on hold until we get into budget adjustment. Anything else before we break? Come back at 10:30.