Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Good morning, everyone. This is the Vermont House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development. It is Tuesday, 03/17/2026 at nine in the morning. Beginning our day having a discussion with the Vermont dealers. And we have Bill Smith from the lumber dealers association who's going to tee it up and introduce members that want to speak with us. Good morning.

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Thank you Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, Bill Smith, I'm a lot of the Long Detail Building Association here, local building supply companies that do design work and provide supplies to our construction industry around the state, around the region, and they are very active partners with the local career technical education centers, always have that, both as potential employers and potential customers coming out of those schools. They work with them from eleventh grade on or earlier, we'd like it to be earlier as we've discussed with the committee in the past. This year their focus of course is on director of tech centers and finding ways to improve the provision of those career pathways to our young Vermonts. Obviously this works in the need for new housing, the need for people to stay in Vermont, have good jobs, these folks do all of that, they have for centuries, some of them, and you've got in the room with you, you've got companies that have been in business for over one hundred and fifty years, you've got companies that been transferred to new owners came into Vermont to put down some roots here and keep businesses going, you've got female business leaders in the industry, you've got young people in the industry, you've got a whole range of folks serving today. So these are the folks that know CTE as well as anyone in the state, and they live it every day. So having said that, I understand you folks might be getting a bill from the Senate soon that we support, which is three thirteen. It's sort of an aspirational bill, that's what we want to do with CTE in the state, but I understand you might have some rule making that could be improve that bill a little bit and support them as well, most likely. So having said that, Jeremy Baker from Arcade Miles is here to start things off.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: Great. Thank you all for being here. We appreciate the opportunity to sit here for you. This is going be my last meeting as chair of the legislative committee, and what I want to do is start off by thanking Chair Marcotte. You've always been in our corner. You've always supported a lot of the things that we support. Thank everybody else as well, but I wanted to have an opportunity at least one time to say thank you for what you've done and continue to do.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Thank you. We're in the same boat. This is my wife's too.

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Oh

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: really? What time are we meeting after? So my name is Jeremy Baker. He talked about all the people that are here and all of their different experiences. I'm an accidental in this industry, I don't really belong, but I've stuck with it for a while, and what I have found is the group of people that you have sitting around you, they're the ones that know the business better. So I'm not going to take a lot of time talking, I'm going to defer and dig deeper my time to them. But the first thing I would like to do is when it comes to age three thirteen, my understanding is currently it's an intention, is that correct? So it's an intention that's going to come to you for review. I don't think it would take us long to come to agreement in the entire room. Everybody's probably going to have very similar opinions about it and how important it is, But I wanted to expand on what it could possibly help solve. Nothing's going to be solved overnight or even maybe within the next five years, but we have to start because we're already at a disadvantage. So we talked a lot about affordable housing in the state. I think that affordable housing is a word that gets used a little too often and inaccurately. What's affordable to me is probably different than what's affordable to most everybody in the room. So I did some research. I don't like having things in front of

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: me because that means I have

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: to read and I can't just talk, but I'm gonna read anyways. So according to the latest statewide housing assessments, Vermont needs tens of thousands of new homes to reach adequate housing supply and affordability. So in the short term, in the next five years, Vermont needs about 24 to 36,000 additional year round homes by 2029. That equals roughly 4,800 to 7,200 new homes per year for stable housing market. Medium term target to address housing and workforce needs by 2030, which isn't that far away, the state would need around 41,000 additional homes. Long term pass them around. The long term projection by 2050, which I will no longer be working, hopefully, I'll be retiring, estimates that Vermont may need up to 172,000 additional homes, which is a staggering number, but like I said, you've got to start somewhere. So that averages about 7,000 new homes per year for the next twenty five years. And how does that compare to the current construction? Vermont issued 2456 permits for homes in 2023, which is far below the 7,000 that we need. So a simple takeaway here is 24,000 to 36,000 homes are needed in the next five years just to address the current shortage. 172,000 homes may be needed by 2050. So I think we can understand how workforce development can play a role in addressing that. I think it's pretty simple when you look at the numbers. So let's talk a little bit about the demographics of the state. I think if you look around the room, you're probably going to see if we added up all the and divide it by the the number that are here, we're gonna come up with about the the average age of Vermonters, which is one of the oldest states in the country. Our current average Vermonter is about 43 44 years old. The most surprising and concerning portion of that is that seventeen percent of our residents are 18. That's a pretty low percentage in my mind. Eighteen to sixty four, that's 60%, and then 65 and older is twenty two to twenty three. So those those 18 being 17%, we'll get to why that's important soon. And then to go on further, Bill's favorite saying, I'll I'm gonna steal it from him, but why Vermont is older than most states. The first thing that's listed is many young adults move out for jobs or school. So what's Vermont's largest, export? It's not in a concern. Anybody want to guess? Yes, it's our use. So again, I think we can begin to make the correlation between how important CTE programs are to the state to keeping kids that are going to become productive members of society in the state, and address other issues that I've stated. And the state historically attracts retirees and older residents. I don't see that that's an issue, but it has one of the lowest birth rates in The US, so we're simply not growing. I think what we saw during COVID was an anomaly. In 2020, we saw a slight decrease in population. Then in 2021, I think it was over 6,000 people flocked to the state to get away from everything that they thought they should get away from. They wanted to be in Vermont in a rural community, and we've seen that start to go down where now we're losing we're losing everything that we gained from a population perspective we've lost. So because of this, Vermont has one of the oldest populations in the country. No offense to the older people because we're all gonna get there if we're lucky. It's around the third highest median age among all states. So now specifically with workforce development, estimates from Vermont housing and workforce studies suggest the state will need thousands of additional skilled trades workers, which is what we're hoping for with the CTE program to develop. That's how we're gonna meet the affordable housing construction targets. Vermont's housing plan calls for 41,000 homes by 2030, which equals 8,200 homes per year. The the trade workers that are gonna be needed to build these homes, so if a housing target is 82 homes a year, the workers needed per year is 16,400 workers. So where are we at right now? Vermont currently has about 15,000 workers, and there are several that are retiring and aging out of that. Because many of those workers are are already busy with infrastructure, commercial projects, and renovations, the effective workforce available for new housing is far smaller, creating a major shortage. So an example of the trade shortages, state labor projections projections highlight large needs in specific trades such as 4,270 carpenters, 930 plumbers, 550 electricians. All of those can be achieved by continuing with the CTE and supporting. Additionally, around 2,000 construction workers leave the workforce each year, as I stated earlier. And the simple takeaway here is 16,000 plus construction workers would be needed annually for housing production alone, and Vermont needs several thousand additional trade workers estimated between three and seven thousand to realistically meet the housing targets. So if you look at h three thirteen, there is an intent, and then hopefully there's action taken. Without being disrespectful, I believe that the action needs to be taken sooner rather than later because the longer we wait, the more complex this issue becomes and the numbers start to grow, and they're gonna grow to a rate that's not achievable, and we're be coming here and meeting with folks like yourself for the next ten years talking about this. So I think that the time is now. I believe that the population of Vermont understands most of what I've already gone over because it's been given to them in several different formats. The governor has been very outspoken about the housing shortage as well as his workforce development support. So with that, I will I will open it up to any discussion among our group or questions from you. Where do you think we fit in? How how you think we fit in? Where you guys think you fit in?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Any questions for Jeremy? Yeah. Thank

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: you so much for

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: all of that.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: Tried to go fast as I could see it in group.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: One question that always comes up for me is marketing and recruiting. I think one of the biggest challenges that we also have is have certainly a proportion of young people who in the same place and another proportion of young people that need to be missing. Correct. Yeah, so I know that you guys started the Building Bright Futures. Yes. And how's that been going? Are we finding your approval?

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: I'm going to defer to Claudia because Claudia does not like to take the credit, and she never will. But Claudia is the one that is the driving force behind Bright Futures. So I would love to hand that question to Claudia.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Morning, always good to see you.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: I think you're testifying that, right?

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: You want to wait for that? Okay.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: When you come up and

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: I believe I pick up.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: But I will just say it's going very well. Our attendance continues to grow, and it may get to a point where we can no longer hold it at the facility we do, which is the Randolph campus of the Vermont State University System. Great. Is there any I'll ask a question. Do you think that there will be any opposition to any portion of H313 or S313 when it comes to you?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: I think the issue before us is the governance. Okay. How do we what will be the governance for CPE? I think what we're looking at here probably aligns with three thirteen, but we're looking at down the road. Down the road for some areas might be not long, and others it might be long. But when we start looking at regionalizing high schools, then how do we create these high schools so that they're fully integrated regional high schools so that there's no difference between CTE and math, or CTE and science, that it's all combined into one high school, and that CTE is just part of the curriculum. A It's separate Right. You go here and you go there. And, you know, we've a few of us have been to St. John's Berry and had discussions with them, and they're an integrated even though they're an independent school, they are fully integrated, and it's really seamless for the students to be able to move in and out of tech science. And so that's what we're looking at trying to create.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: So they've set kind of the example that or the model that you would like to see throughout the state.

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Mr. Chairman, if I may, perhaps this would be a good time to introduce the folks around the room. We all have name tags, but I

[Andrew Neault (GoodRow/Goodreau Lumber co-owner)]: just made one comment to that I'll one second ask. I just thought that when I was reading the S-three 13, the two sections I stood out to be were two.1b, addressing barriers to transportation, and then 21B, no student being on a waitlist when they're available programs. So yes, there's a marketing funnel issue that we could definitely promote futures otherwise. But my understanding I joined the advisory meeting over at Edinburgh Career Center. They've got I think you're aware of this, but they've got capacity, and then you've got 100,

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: what, staff 150

[Andrew Neault (GoodRow/Goodreau Lumber co-owner)]: students rejected because there's no capacity down in Rutland. And it's really just a shot up set. Now, that's resources for transportation, difficulties, etcetera. But even before we address putting more people in the funnel, there's pretty low hanging fruit to get the people that are interested into a program. So I just think those are the most important parts of this.

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Good point, Ed. Well, why don't

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: you start the introduction then?

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Oh, man. Really shot myself in the butt.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: My name is Andrew Neault.

[Andrew Neault (GoodRow/Goodreau Lumber co-owner)]: I am at GoodRow Lumber in East Middlebury. My business partner James and I joined we bought the business July '4, so we're getting our feet under us still. Lots to learn, but it's been an exciting industry to be a part of.

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: I'm Luke Flanagan, I'm the manager at Carris Duncan

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Brown. I'll on the

[Andrew Neault (GoodRow/Goodreau Lumber co-owner)]: hook with Francis and Bill over here on my first side

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: of things.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: Name is Francis Balzestley. I'm the

[Francis Balzestley (Director of Government Affairs, VRLDA parent org)]: Director of Government Affairs for the

[Francis Balzestley (Director of Government Affairs, VRLDA parent org)]: parent organization. We represent the entire Northeast for the lumber, building materials industry. Our members are all family owned or independently operated. We don't represent big corporate players. And across the Northeast, our members look largely like this. We also operate an educational foundation that provides workforce development to upskill the workforce. Programs all across the Northeast, trainings. Starting a job, a career in our industry usually starts well above minimum wage in the yard, doesn't need a degree or formal education. And from there, through the foundation, we upskill them by training them on blueprint reading, sales, forklift and crane certification, and many other programs that really uplift the workforce and give them a career that can give them a lifelong pathway.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: But the certifications that you provide, are they registered at the stage?

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: They're mostly federal, so the crane is federal OSHA. Forklift varies state to state in some situations, but it's also Massachusetts. OSHA in Vermont, it's all over the world, but Massachusetts also has an additional hoisting license that you have to acquire. But Vermont is Jeff.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Lance Allen, formerly a long standing, over a hundred year business here in Vermont and Alan Lumber Company, a directly mild deployant. And I worked for them and the outside too. Brian Moses, my family owns a Britain lumber company, they're always for the months. We're a wholesale manufacturer and supplier to retailers that you see in the room. Approximately 50 of our 90 employees live in Vermont.

[Katie Gallagher (Huber Engineered Woods; VRLDA Associate Director)]: Our currently General Manager of RK Miles is located in Memberton. Katie Gallagher, I'm with Huber Engineered Woods. We're a manufactured wood, engineered wood manufacturing company based regionally in Northern Maine. So I cover New Hampshire and Vermont and I'm an Associate Director on board with the VRLDA here supporting our members today.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: I think it should be noted that we're all in direct competition with each other. Now, don't know how many people come before you that are as unified as we are, but I want to make that point. We should be on, so friends. I think I just lost all my friends.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Claudia?

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: I'm Claudia Holman, I work for Bethel Mills. We are the oldest continuously running lumber yard in the country, for which we are very proud. I am also the president of the VR LDA, but more importantly, I am the chair of the application and workforce development committee on that board, and that is where my passion is.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: Have any of you ever visited Bethel Mills? You have? Yes, I've lived there. That facility? If anybody ever has a chance, it's truly amazing. Love to have you. It's a Vermont example of, I'm going to do this with or without support. I love the story there.

[Patrick St. Lawrence (LaValley Building Supply)]: Good morning, Patrick St. Lawrence Valley Building Supply, Rutland and Budlow. We are a New Hampshire based company, have the two locations with a little over 40 employees at the two locations.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: It's certainly good to meet you all and put in face to the names. I guess I'll have the committee do the same. So I'm Michael Marcotte, I'm from Coventry, I'm both in the Northeast Kingdom, and I'm Chair of the Committee.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: I'm Edye Graning. I live in Jericho, represent Jericho and Underhill, and I'm the vice chair

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: of the committee.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: I'm Abbey Duke. I represent part of Burlington.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Herb Olson, representing Bristol, Lincoln, and Starksboro, and a customer of Good Red Lumber since about 1970. Also, I share my face with RK

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: Mark. Okay.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: Awesome. You're very good for Matt. I'm Emily Carris Duncan. I represent Wilmington, Westingham, Halifax. I grew up in Brooklyn, spent all the time at the Ballard. And WW is also helping me build my house, and RK Miles lived in a house full of yearlong years up. Thank you very much for all

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: your work.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: So Ed Droop, the owner

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: of WW, is going to

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: be with us today, but he's not feeling well.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: That's great. I'll start going around.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: I'm Dave Bosch, I'm from Rutland too. I live in Clarendon, represent Wallingford, Clarendon, West Rutland, a larger portion of Rutland town, so And I am retired from working for you folks for thirty nine plus years, the US Forest Service. I thought that's what, yes. Green Mountain National Forest, started out in California. A healthy forest is a managed forest.

[Anthony "Tony" Micklus (Member)]: That's right. I'm Tony Micklus, I'm from Milton, I represent Route 7 Corridor of Milton and Georgia South of the interstate.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Everybody has these big, long things. Michael Boutin from Ferry City.

[Monique Priestley (Clerk)]: Monique Priestley, Bradford, Fairley, West Fairley, Sebastian.

[Kirk White (Ranking Member)]: Kirk White, Bethel, Rochester, Stockbridge, Hancock. I went to school with some of the Durfee fan.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Creepy. Going for Betham Hill.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: Then we're all together. Well, do ask, what year did Betham Hill start?

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: 1781.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: We did this in 1781.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: My first job was to go through the deeds, and the deeds from the Marsh family to the Washburns had trees from this tree, and referenced chickens, and it was quite fun to try to decipher that. We've been around a long time.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: '88. And as you can see here, it's on the handout, we have about 5,000 employees between all of us in the state of Vermont. Do you want to start the next round of other

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: questions, Gary? You don't do anything, do you?

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Morning. Morning. Rutland, Sarah, it was an honor to come before you all. I appreciate your service. And I would like to talk a little bit about how we've been serving the community. It is our goal to run beside you, and that's actually what changed this board. We went from our labels of Bethel Mills, LaValley, RK, Goodreau, Hercules, to the VRLBA. So when you see us at an event, people see us united because we're all facing the same issue, and we need to address that issue. We want kids to be and stay and have good lives in this state. So let's talk about Bright Future. Bright Future, I actually got people who asked me in advance of when it would be. Last year was wonderful. The governor came and helped us hand out what we call the shining star award. It's one student from each school chosen either by their peers, by the teacher, the teacher for their shine, something that they've done that stood out. And we give them a fully loaded tool belt as an award. I'll tell you a little bit about the actual presentation. The children come this year. Right now, as of today, I've got 170 signed up. By the time we launch, there'll be over 200, probably about two twenty five students. They're coming from all over the state. I am trying to get Doctor. Howell to come from St. Johnsbury. I did meet with her about three or four months ago, and I'll talk about that just a second. They actually come from that far away. They come from Ganzburg Falls, Bradford, and they come from Bennington, so they're all coming to the Vermont State College Annual Campus. We then divide them into groups, and that's the biggest part. And if anyone wants to come and walk with a group of students, I would welcome you. I'll leave my card, because the biggest part of this is mentoring. You do not need to be in the field. You need to be someone who wants to walk with these children, who wants to tell them that there's a place for them, maybe talk about your own story, and let them know that they matter. We have a lot of kids that we see with that baseball cap down and their heads down. I want to lift them up. That's the whole choice. I want to lift them up. I want them to be here. We want them to be here. So, we divide them up with their mentors and we send them out, and we have all types of different presentations from some of the big companies. They have hands on construction projects. They've built some decks. They do some zip tape, which is one of Katie's best products of our equipment. We showed them a boom truck and a mosset, a little sample of that. This year, we have an oddball, a gentleman The named Scott governor recommended him. He grew up in Hancock. I live in Rochester. And Scott is making high end custom cars, went to the trade school, I think it was Randolph Tech that he went to, and he went to trade school and he's making high end cars in Milton. And if you look up Roth Speed, you'll be amazed at the artistic nature of this man and the attention to detail. And he's a trade school graduate, he's helping to build here. And so, I want to have his story put forward to the kids. It's a success story. He says he's going to bring a car and that he'll let the kids sit in it. And I want to make sure that all of us got to sit in it too, and so he'll be welcomed. So he's a new person coming on. The Department of Labor comes as well as the college. Think here we have a gentleman coming from the Vermont Construction Academy. They are a new organization out of Windhamskie, and what they do is offer apprenticeship programs. They are in collaboration with the builders' association. So Ross LaVoy, who you might know, will be coming down to speak to the students about other options. We have an actual presentation, which is what happens after high school. So DOL comes, they do a great job. Ross will now come, be his first year of Finnish College because they have that opportunity to see that there are many avenues. We have another great presentation that is AutoCAD. So we have one of our designers come and he creates a kitchen for them and they're able to see that it's not just about swinging a hammer or working on the counter, but that there are architectural design elements as well So we're speaking to everyone. Additionally, right now, some of the new things that are happening in the industry are tools. We have a lot of tools now that are making it easier for people who are of small stature to come into the business, which I love. We actually have a tool, don't call it a tool, but we have a tool that helps you to pull bottoms out in order to hold things up like a piece of sheet rock. That's an innovative piece. We have jacks that allow us to hang a door by ourselves, that's addressing labor. Then we have this other cool thing. Isn't that great? We're gonna do a demo on that with the kids, that's something that we want them to see, that they can come in no matter what size they are. Don't have to be somebody's gonna lift a piece of sheetrock. God bless you, if you are. But my point being that we do show these innovative pieces. So, I'm very happy that we get response right away. Teachers give us lot of good input, I'm excited for another year. But I am even more excited this year, or at least equally excited, I'm always excited in case you haven't noticed, about a new program, because we as a board had determined that we really needed to get to the younger kids. Our next step was the middle school kids. Because what's happened, the kids are coming in in ninth grade and we asked them last year If you had an opportunity to be in this program a little bit earlier, would you? And they all raised their hand and said, Yes. And really, think 90% responded that way. And so Vermont Construction Academy has agreed to host a program. I have two middle schools coming. It is a pilot program coming from Bethel and from Randolph, and they will be coming in, and we're going to begin with building science. We'll present the zip system, and we'll talk about building the wood that gets warped and teach the science that you were speaking to. We're going to do some work with squares, speed squares and math, perhaps a level and in the top. I have a box that I have at the hotel where we're having lunch that contractors have made, and we're going to actually have them build this little box. And we're going to do a little bit of plumbing, and we're going to finish it by saying, bringing one of my kitchen and bath designers in, or anyone who's kitchen and bath designers, saying, Someone came to us with this box that they built in seventh grade, and they loved this box. They kept the trinkets in it, they did this with it, and they want to build the kitchen around this box that they made. And you're gonna have to please help us design the kitchen around their box. And the beauty of this telestat program is that it will come out three-dimensional as if you're standing in it, and what you can do is you can say, quite sure I like that yellow cabinet. I want it to be green. And then the flick of a button, it turns green. Advanced technology, safety, valuable products, the lumber industry and the trades represents real work, real opportunity, and real pathways to a comfortable life. All of us here have businesses that offer profit sharing, pensions, vacation. We pay well. We are above competitive wage. We pay for training, health insurance, life insurance, Bethel Mills has a full long term and short term disability, and life insurance, it's two times your salary. So, these are good jobs, we are a diverse organization, we have women, we have everybody in our companies, and so we do want the kids to stay, maybe not lumber, maybe contracting, another great opportunity. Maybe manufacturing or wholesale or sales. So that's what we're doing right now. I would love for you to come, not for me so much, but for the kids. Your presence really makes a difference to them and to their teachers. And so it is April 2, as you can see. Best time to come if you want to walk with the kids is about 09:00, 09:30 when the groups come, and I can pair you up. And if you'd just like to see the enthusiasm, in about 11:30, when the pizza is served, we will have gluten free and also gluten, so that everybody can be accommodated. Ross will be speaking. We do hope the governor will come. We have invited Zoe Songas as well, and I was told yesterday that the chief academic officer, I think it's Ennis, is the last name perhaps, is that right? May be coming as well. So again, we invite you and I would love any feedback or anything you might wanna say that you feel we can implement. But after the middle schoolers gets off, we're going to, I hope that's gonna be at least quarterly event with VCA. My board doesn't know that yet. I just had that happen yesterday. But I'm sure that they will approve it. We will help to provide transportation for the kids to get to these events, and then we'll stick with them. But then the next step will be people who are actually older that have not gone into the workforce, that maybe need to be redirected, because when speaking with the Department of Labor, there are so many people who somehow got sidetracked, right, and they didn't have opportunity. So I will say that Andrew represents a younger person who has come into Vermont and purchased Goodrill, the owner of Goodrill with his partner, he saw great light and opportunity here in this state, so again, that's another thing that we want to promote, are these young people coming into our industry and into other industries that are similar. That's what I got, and I'm very excited about it.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: And she's also got a

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: full time job. I do want to speak to that. I will gut Bethel Mills on April 2. Literally, will have a skeleton crew, and I have actually the people, we got hats for the kids, don't do that, that's Jeremy Steeves, he tells me what to buy, I know even somebody does that. But my point being that we, as a board, but then behind us, you come with a whole onslaught of people from all over. Come with another, every one here brings onslaught of people to this event, our companies. It's not just us, our companies support this effort. And again, if there's some way that we might help you in your endeavors to get to the I love your idea of one stop shop, Right? Math, English, all rolled in. Wow, if that could happen, I would check. But that's what we want to do. We want to help you to help escape. So that's what I have to say. Any questions? You want to come? You've been before. I

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: have, I'd love to go again. You've got a few

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: chairs since.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: A few years ago we did come down.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: I think you made it, you voluntold everybody on this committee that they were going, if I remember correctly. Yeah, you made us priority.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: We do it

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: on the

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: agenda. What's on the agenda?

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: We appreciate that. I will add that when Governor Scott, he agreed to come last year, we were not certain what type of an impact he would have on students because some kids probably, we assumed this, some kids probably don't even know who the man is or what he does or anything about politics or state government, and we weren't sure how long he would stay.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Five minutes we were told.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: We were told like five minutes. Like you guys understand, time is a valuable commodity. How long he stay?

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: He's there over an hour.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: And helped hand out the And the kids were just so engaged with him and so appreciative of him coming, to echo Claudia's sentiment, and any of you that have any interest, they would certainly appreciate that because going back to when I was in high school when there was horse and buggy, the trades that was always viewed as the outcasts, and shame on me and shame on my parents for creating that environment, but I believe we're getting away from that now. I don't think that exists anymore, hope it doesn't exist anymore. If anybody here has hired a plumber or an electrician lately to work on their house, you understand how much money they make, and rightfully so. It's a skilled trade. So I think that the more these kids see an opportunity, the better. The more they see support, the better, and the more they see the future of possibly staying in Vermont, it's also important. We can't keep exporting our kids.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: May I ask a question? The model that you're speaking about is, how far out is that? You think in three years, do we have to build in order to get that?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: It's a significant investment.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: You feel you'll get buy in, I would think so.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Yeah, like everything, it's the dollars that are going to be difficult. And we need buy in from communities to accept a bigger regionalization of their high schools than what we have now. So, you know, there's a lot of talk that has to take place and a lot of understanding of how do we find the money to do it.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Would be happy to talk to the communities. I'd tell you a

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: funny story about John Dearby, is my boss, son, is Chittenden.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: So he's on the school board for twenty years.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: And I don't know if

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: you know where Bethel Gilead is. Bethel Gilead is about three miles from where the new school is. And he had to go to people and say, we're going to be consolidating, you're going to have

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: to go three miles down

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: the road. He didn't say that, they said, John, do you want us to send our kids all the way down there? And he said it was one of the most deep conversations that he had ever had to have, but it did happen and that school was viable for a very long time. So happy to come in to at least Bethel, which is the only word about you.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: I'd like to also thank you so much for all that information. I love all the work that you've made. But it also occurs to me that in some ways we're kind of getting back to the tradition in Vermont. I grew up in Rutland. I went to Rutland public schools and still had home ec and mechanics and woodworking.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: And

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: I think when we're talking about some of these, just getting kick started programs, those are some of the things that we need to reinvest in. And maybe those programs won't necessarily take as long to take as a full regional high school, but we can start with these introductory things. I learned how to swing your camera when I was five. They're important life skills, and they also you maintain your house, so very cool.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: Carolyn Granington was my life skills teacher.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: Really? That's

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: amazing. May 6, and I will send that out, I have a flyer on it, but May 6 at Vermont Construction Academy in Winooski will be the pilot program, which could be a dollar to say that, because the first bright futures was a little bit of a yawner. I kind of put them in classroom and we did,

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: I- He but held hostage for half a day.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Yeah, and they wanted to come back anyway, so that was good, but that would be great to have input, because I agree with you, if we could do that four times a year with two schools each time, he gives it 40 just to introduce them. So then they say to their parents, this is really fun, this is really interesting, and go from there. That's how the seed comes.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: I might add one thing to the marketing side, I feel that there's still a culture that kids have to go to college. So real life case here, have 15 year old twins, they are going to the same high school that I graduated from thirty five years ago, And I was told thirty five years ago, if you want to be an accountant, you need to leave Vermont. You need to go to other cities. So recently they had a college night at school open to parents, to kids, sophomores through seniors. There was email blasts three times within a four week period advertising. Last Friday, they had a career day. Kids came home and told me about it. There was one general contractor there. There was nursing programs, banks, not to discredit banks and nursing and anything else, but the trades still aren't hitting the offices. They're not being offered to these kids. Not for nothing.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: Going to college or not,

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: these are life skills. You still gotta enough. They're good, important skills to know. The most influential parts, I believe, are in the guidance counseling. They can, in the realm of college is the way

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: to go for some, even though I don't know.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Jeremy said, electrical and plumbing and these are just the opportunity to serve.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: And they're very technical. They're becoming incredibly technical jobs. There's a lot of know how that's not just playing wire or whatever it is. So yeah, I agree.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: The end of the cul de sac of every neighborhood used to be a lawyer, doctor. Now it's a CDL driver, a plumber, and I don't have any problem with that. I think that's where they belong. That's where we need to convince all of the school system that these kids have opportunities that will lead them to that eventual destination.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: I thank you all so much for being here. And I just wanna share with you a little bit of what we've been doing and that CTE has been something that this committee, but also the state has been trying to figure out how to improve for, gosh, at least twenty years. There are some systemic issues, some systems in the state that we keep bumping into. But what we were talking about earlier with Stafford and moving kids, it's all perfectly legal right now under the law. It's just not happening. So there are things that we can do in this body, and there are things that have to happen elsewhere. And we're trying so hard to point those out and say, We did these things. We need somebody else to do these other things, because we're seventeen weeks a year we're here. So again, we so appreciate what you do. We so appreciate this conversation because it helps us to understand where the gaps are in our understanding and how to engage the community a little bit more in making these changes that have to happen. And we're not ignored. Know that we've spent a good part of this session, a good part of, gosh, the last twenty years trying to make these improvements. And we're now at a point where, as Chair Marcotte said, we have to really change the foundation of education. And you know that's not happening only in this room. That's happening in this whole building. There are four different structures for how CTE is given, like the system, the structure in the state of Vermont. In 17 centers, are four different governing structures. And that doesn't work, because then they're not talking to each other, they're all doing differently. I serve on a regional advisory board in Chittenden County, so I'm deeply familiar with those. And when you're talking about college, a lot of our CTEs are focusing on sending kids to college too. And so then we're also not hitting we're not meeting the kids who need us in those areas, right? And giving them the opportunities that we need filled in the state, right? So it's a win win when we do it right. And so we're just, again, we're trying to set up systems in a way that there can be success and it's

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: slow.

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: I was just going to say, what the Vice Chair said is important is that there's areas that we're not looking at that could also be a factor here. For example, Andrew was talking about how do you market owning a business in Vermont, one of these businesses or construction business or plumbing or an efficient business, how to market that to folks outside to come in and take over a failed rent business that's not going to have that next generation buy it at my business. How do you get kids to see this isn't about just a 16p nail and with two by six, it's about an auto pad design, it's about technology, about AI, it's about designing things for customers, as well as going back to building it and selling the supplies for it. So we need all those pieces firing whether it's with our commerce secretary reaching out with parking people who want to buy businesses or it's people to tell our kids that, know, not tell them, but suggest to them what's the direction to go in and your money. I remember that at twenty fifth high school, right, in the 70s, early 80s, I was in the college track,

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: but I was a farmer.

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: That was really weird for people. Probably it was safer for everyone that I wouldn't keep having water.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: It's safer.

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: So what I'm saying is that there's pieces of that for everybody in our state. It sounds like this committee is really taking a great role in leadership moving this forward and I've been commissioned to that. I don't even sit at committees and the public.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: We've got you on reporting.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: So you need to retract

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: that statement. I always know I'm being recorded. So I also want to put in

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: your mic and spend ten minutes to ten here

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: and you're going to be a

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: busy day on the floor. You have to eat lunch and neither

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: speaker will give you time for lunch. Over at Cat Plaza we'll feed you. But I didn't often have any of

[Bill Smith (Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: our members that's something that they wanted to share with you. Is there anybody else in who they want to you know? You know?

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Don't say that. It's a lie.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: So I have a question. So thank you for this. I'm really impressed with the work you're doing, and thank you for reaching out to our youth. The sort of cohort I've been thinking about is, I think the acronym is NEET. There are kids who are not in employment, education or training. So there's sort of a cohort of young people, many of them young men, who are 18, 20 years old, and they're kind of not doing any of this. And so how I'm curious, of anyone in the room's experience kind of reaching that cohort. What are things we can do better? What are are you seeing significant deficit of soft skills for employment? That kind of thing. Sort of a broad question, but it's just sort of trying to think about how do we reach that cohort.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: So this is a group that I want to see. There was a program a few years back that the Attorney General had kids who had gotten off track and were in trouble, and he had begun to bring them into different job opportunities. I would love to find an organization that has or is working with these children. I would invite them and get them to write futures just to begin with. I would give them tours of our, I would hook them up with Jeremy or anyone in this room as a mentor. So this is a population that, again, I said eyes down, eyes, Eyes come up through relationships, Through somebody showing you that you have value. And I say this all the time, they're sick of me saying, at 20 years old I wouldn't walk into a public building by myself. You had to blow me out of the water to get me out of the car into my college class. And I hadn't met Joy recently, passed a year ago. And I'm very grateful to him. So if I can find those kids, if we can find those kids, we will bring them to bright futures and bring them as up as we can as they want to be. I hope that helps.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: You know, you're talking about now looking at the adult population as well. I would encourage you to touch base with the adult learning centers. We have four around the state. They can be very helpful in identifying people in trying to get those populations employed. They're helping adults with their, you know, trying to get their GEDs, and also teaching them the soft skills they need in order to get employment. And I think they're always looking for businesses that are willing to work with them and trying to see if they're a good fit for some of the people that they're helping.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: We'll do We'll do both instead. If you don't figure out, we will figure out how to do the thing. Also, Department of Labor, they also have some adult program. And I'll be speaking with my mom, so they came last year and they were off the chart. The kids loved them, the teachers loved them, that they had opportunity. They wore all kinds of plain swag, but they do, and the kids love that. Give them a bag, give them a shirt, a hat, they love that, but then it also lets them remember, this is somebody who's going to help me get a job. And also, they're very good at coaching, noticed, in a very nice, supportive way to look up.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: How many students do we have? Usually 200?

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: This year we had about 200, this year we'll have more, because we have a new school coming in.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: We've all been there. How many of those students are on their phone throughout the day?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: The teachers usually make them stop being on their phones. But they don't even need to.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: We were concerned about that. At these events, they are engaged and paying attention. They're not on their phones, and that's something that I think is important. By seeing that from their perspective, that tells me that they are engaged and they want to know more and they want to learn more, they want to be exposed to more. So I think just getting them off their damn fault has been a success.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: And along those lines, Jeremy, we had a post event survey that I think probably if you were to look at student population, might not be the top responders to surveys and feedback, but we got a huge success rate and response rate to suggestions for future events. Kids giving us ideas of where they were actually headed, what programs they were looking into. So there is a level of inspiration and engagement that does come out of it. You know, trail after the fact when they fill out surveys.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: We don't pretend to have all the answers, we just want to

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: be a part of the

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: solution, because you eat an elephant one bite at a time, so we're nibbling.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Yeah, we're a collaborative group. I'm familiar with the first bright teachers, I would say, that's a horrific convention, made it through and we collaborated to create what it It is wasn't me, it was us.

[Jeremy Baker (VRLDA Legislative Committee Chair; RK Miles)]: Yeah, we don't determine what they want. We listen to them, then we figure it out.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Well, thank you for joining us this morning. They're calling us to the floor now. Certainly appreciate you all stopping by and chatting with us. Thank you for the invitation for lunch. We'll do our best to get there. I'll ask Jonathan to put April 2 down on our agenda planning, so that depending on what's going on that week, maybe it's time for us to take a field trip. So we'll try to come down and

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, VRLDA; Chair, Education & Workforce Committee)]: Even And express if you walked with kids and they knew that you were part of this, they would And you wouldn't think so, right? Because they don't give you that impression. But the governor, really, and then of Carrington, would come and loved him, and the DOL, knowing that you're there for them, wow, that'd make a big impression. So yes, thank you for considering it, appreciate it. Great, Thanks again. You. Good Thank luck

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: you. Committee will be back in here, but not sure exactly. It's a show on the floor this afternoon. I will come back in about ten minutes I after the think we just need to have a discussion of where people are on CTE. We have a couple of different pieces of language, and I think it's time for us to talk about that. Figure out where we're going to go.