Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Michael Marcotte]: Good afternoon, everyone. This is the Vermont House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development. It is Tuesday, 02/03/2026, at 01:02 in the afternoon. So beginning our afternoon with H. Six seventy four, which is an act relating to the creation of the Vermont Sister State Program. We have a lineup of many people to testify. I think most of them were members of the task force that looked at this over the last year. But before we get to that, we'll have our obliged council, Rutland, go over think it was, break all of my mind. Rick, welcome to the committee.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Good afternoon, committee. So there is an amendment as opposed to the website. The six seventy four amendment. Okay, great. I'm going to share my screen as well after you've approved my request to share. So you should have either in front of you or online draft 2.1 of the committee amendment to H six seventy four. There it is. So this is a strike all amendment. Oh, missed you. I couldn't write that.

[Michael Marcotte]: Is it work?

[Edye Graning]: Is it not?

[Michael Marcotte]: It's as introduced. I just have an.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Can we email you?

[Susan Evans McClure]: One just yet and I'll throw up.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Sharing for a second.

[Monique Priestley]: Okay.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: He should get in a few moments here.

[Michael Marcotte]: More than I need. Good.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: With Cooper not being here, is It's not good, but it's good for me.

[Unknown Committee Member]: I know everybody's gonna get too low.

[Lt. Col. Gene Enriquez]: You'll get a belt.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Didn't spill. Does he go in direct or? You know, my office handles that. I don't need to worry about the details of who pays the bill. Alright, so it should be posted soon, but for now, if the chair's okay, I'll start walking through it. So this is a strike all. And I guess the question is, mister chair, do you want me to I walked through it. Was it last week or week and a half ago? I can do that again or I can just go over the few changes that are in the strike all.

[Michael Marcotte]: Oh, I think we just look at the changes.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. Very good.

[Michael Marcotte]: Most people are going to walk through it one more time. Not seeing any affirmative, so let's let's look at the changes.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Alright. So the changes are pretty minimal. The amendment is pretty minimal. The highlights are the changes from the introduced version. So in the creation and purpose language, there was originally language seemingly to to limit these relationships to, as you can see here, the purpose of the program, I'm on Substitution two, line 13. The purpose of the program is to strengthen Vermont's international engagement and to foster mutually beneficial relationships with and the indigenous national and the previous language was just with sub national governments. And the belief was it was should be opened up to not just sub national, but also countries as well as states and provinces.

[Michael Marcotte]: Questions on that? Okay.

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Alright. The next change is on page five. The previous language, this is the entire kind of phrasing here changed. If the committee approves an application, it reviews pursuant to subdivision A, which is basically if the committee receives an application that the agency of commerce has approved, The committee shall submit its recommendation to the governor along with a copy of the application not later than thirty days after completing its review of the application. So the change here is in the introduced version. It gave the committee the authority to send the governor applications that approved and did not approve or that it recommended not be approved to the governor. The change here would just have the committee send an application that it recommended be approved to the governor. So if the committee decides for whatever reason that this program should not be implemented or there should not be an agreement with this specific entity, then the governor would not get a copy of the application because the committee just said no. There was a Subdivision C that's been removed. Subdivision C basically became unimportant because Subdivision C said the committee shall either approve, recommended the application be approved or not approved. So that language was removed because the committee just either recommends it and therefore since the governor or if it doesn't recommend it, the process stops there.

[Monique Priestley]: Okay

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: on page seven in the reporting that the committee does every year, there was a subdivision removed and that was Subdivision 4 previously. So that subdivision read recommendations for new sister state agreements along with the rationale for the recommendations and how they align with Vermont's strategic interest and capacity. My memory is that my note, my notes indicate the committee thought that was duplicative of another of the rest of the reporting requirements of the committee. So that subdivision was removed from this amendment. Those are the three changes.

[Monique Priestley]: Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Good.

[Tim Tierney]: Hello, everybody. Happy post Groundhog Day. I'm Tim Tierney. I am the director of international trade and business recruitment within the Department of Economic Development, and I cochaired the working group, sister state working group.

[Monique Priestley]: So, what would you

[Michael Marcotte]: like to let us know about the show?

[Tim Tierney]: So, I mean, well, I mean, I think the first thing is I think this is a a just a really good process or the beginning starting. And the committee that I think was created, which basically is a suggested committee on this bill, I mean, covers a very diverse segment, I think, that would cover all the different international aspects that we're looking for, the cultural, the educational, and the economic aspects of of what we're looking for when we look or when we're considering applications and making those relationships. So I I think it just has a it's a great full spectrum of people that we can utilize to make really good decisions, I think. So that's what I that's what I think we said. We put together a great team and, you know, slips in front this bill kind of continues that. And at ACCD, we're more than willing to take the lead to help administer it. I mean, we've already provided staff and time and it's a we've only enjoyed it, but it's also it's not it's the capacity. We have plenty capacity to do this. And it's just an important I think in the work that I do is that that we have these that I'm I know what's going on the ground here, what's happening and creating those relationships and bringing even what we believe is important economic and also maybe diplomatic, I think is another good term that we need that we can bring into the fold.

[Peter Lynch]: That's what I have

[Tim Tierney]: on the sister state committee.

[Michael Marcotte]: The agency the agency supports the bill?

[Tim Tierney]: ANC supports the bill. Yeah.

[Edye Graning]: I was just gonna ask if you have any feedback on the adjustments for today. I know we just saw it for the first time.

[Tim Tierney]: They all make sense. I mean, I think the and the the subnational I think the national was left out just by accident. I mean, that was every intent from the beginning was national or subnational. Know everything looks makes sense. Trust in you. We trust in Rick.

[Unknown Committee Member]: Just a question. The interim report for the working group didn't mention anything about Ireland and repealing that piece, the trade commission. Was just curious if you could speak to your thoughts or the the thoughts from the commission on that since it wasn't in the report.

[Tim Tierney]: Well, I mean, I know that from our standpoint or I I won't even make it from my standpoint. As the international trade director, you know, I mean, I've already I I do a lot of relationships with the at Ireland and different aspects with their chamber of commerce to their World Trade Center to their US commercial service to the AM American Chamber of Commerce or Ireland located in Boston to the Boston consulate. The government so I feel like we're doing our role, and we have there. So I think on my thing is we don't even have a Canadian trade commission, which is our biggest trade partner. So I'm just it was always like, do is this just a level what what's what's the need? What's the of having an Irish trade commission specifically when we don't have another one with any other nation in

[Rick (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: the world?

[Tim Tierney]: That's my viewpoint on that. And I don't want to say that I think the agency probably would agree with me.

[Unknown Committee Member]: Just a follow-up on that. As far as international trade goes, is this program designed to also do that international trade function, or is that remaining a separate function within ACCV?

[Tim Tierney]: Well, mean, dovetails into it, I think, to a degree. Think but this is really, I think, based on that relationships of building that the cultural, the educational sharing and collaboration. And if there's trade involved, I think it's an important aspect for most subnational and national and and I our state that that's gonna be almost like an organic part of these relationship building. So it it I to answer your question, it yes. Is international trade is going to be an important aspect of the sister state? Is that what you're referring to?

[Unknown Committee Member]: Is it Yeah. I guess I'm also wanting to understand how international trade is like, is that its own separate program? Or is that just sort of something that is, like, in organically of together with this?

[Tim Tierney]: Well, mean, the separate program is like, I'm the lone person that deals with international trade. We have another person that helps out with exporting. We have a state trade expert. Actually, he helped a great deal, Nathan Davidson, with this, administering this program as well. So it's the two of us. And so international trade is, you know, we're either helping our companies or I'm out or we are out and making connections to further international trade by either connecting our companies mostly to these foreign markets. Like for instance, we're having a webinar in two weeks to actually to go to Morocco, which is the gateway to Africa and the Mediterranean. And we're trying to bring Vermont companies to this webinar to see is this a market for you? So that is how we introduce our companies and small businesses to international markets. All we can do is bring them to the water, I guess. I don't if I'm answering your question.

[Unknown Committee Member]: I'm totally sure if I

[Monique Priestley]: can get into it,

[Unknown Committee Member]: but I appreciate understanding how the process works. I think I'm just trying to understand when it comes to economic development and international trade, how exactly it fits within the sister state program.

[Tim Tierney]: Well, I think for example, I'm just going to say that company, country B that we now form relationship with, that they have a market that we can now it probably open up more doors by having a sister station relationship. Now I think that's the thing. We're actually making closer connections, and then, therefore, we might see more opportunities. And I think it's a two way street there that they meet more companies, we meet more people. By the way, they have this commodity, and we could use that commodity. Least by getting greater knowledge, we're going to increase the opportunity for trade. And I Okay. Think that's all we can do.

[Michael Marcotte]: I guess

[Unknown Committee Member]: I am having a little bit of trouble fully differentiating how exactly the programs are going to be completely separate from each other. I think I'm maybe understanding this sister state program as sort of the soft initial landing and then international trade maybe offering more tech support. Does that make sense?

[Tim Tierney]: It does. It's increasing connections and knowledge, I think, the key. It's finding out. Then sometimes it's also influence helps.

[Unknown Committee Member]: Having a career with that.

[Michael Marcotte]: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Deborah, good afternoon.

[Deborah Bloom]: Good afternoon. Deborah Bloom, and I am with the Agency of Education. I work actually I saw a number of you the other day at our offices. Nice to see you again. I work in the accountability and assessment space currently at the Agency of Education, and I was asked to come on to this committee kind of midstream. What I brought to it was my lens of past international experiences. I'm a return Peace Corps volunteer, and I have pretty extensive experience working abroad and with international exchange programs, particularly at the higher education level. So I think you can see that reflected in the committee makeup in the bill. I had really enjoyed coming into this space. I also, it happens, did an exchange in my high school career in the early '90s through one of the original Sister State programs and was in St. Petersburg and PetroSvovaks in Russia in '91. So I was able to bring kind of some historical context and personal experience to this space. I think it was just kind of going back to the conversation that just was had about that relationship. How is this international trade and education at the heart of so many of those relationships is the relational. And I think that that's a really important part of what I see as the Sister State program and creating those relationships so that they can develop and become you know, really specific to what is in that space and the needs of Vermont Commerce as well. So, thank you. Happy to take any questions.

[Michael Marcotte]: Questions? Thank you for serving on the commissioner task force. I'm sure your experience brought a lot to the table as well.

[Deborah Bloom]: I really enjoyed it. Thank you for the opportunity.

[Michael Marcotte]: Thank you. Next one. Yeah. Please.

[Luis Verano]: Oh, thank you. Merci. So I'm Luis Verano. I am the president of the Anfleur Sister City, and I'm also chair of the Anfleur Sister City Committee. I've been doing this for the Anfleur Connection for probably thirteen years now, but I've been involved with relationships with France and promoting French culture and language and opportunities for commerce with Burlington and Enfleur over the years in many different capacities. Addison Francaise was affiliated as well, was on the board there. And I think just the successes we've had with bringing the people to people connection at the very human level of relationships in the country and the world. And I think that goes to the question that was asked earlier about the trades and economic development. It only comes if we have human connections that are very, very root level and people in positions that can make a difference. And then when you have those relationships, matter whatever else happens around you, around the world, you rely on those, that trust that gets built because of those relationships. So, I think this committee that was brought together was a very good group of people, very action oriented group, very efficient. We did what we set out to do and got it done, and that's the kind of group I like to be associated with. So, important thing I think of having a Sisters Day program identified officially as a government entity just gives us a more depth into what is possible and opportunities that we can help with all the other agencies that are trying to improve things between Vermont and other countries. So, grateful to have been part of it. I would only say it's a meaningful and efficient group and opportunities that will arise with you and come back to you and the Governor. So, it was an honor to be the Governor's representative on this group. I'm happy to continue to do more, and I want to thank you for your consideration of this bill and open to any questions.

[Michael Marcotte]: You, Louise. Any questions?

[Edye Graning]: Great. Liz, can you talk a little bit about, this is Edye Graning. Can you talk a little bit about your experience in the Sister State program with Burlington, just to share how that has changed the relationship with our employer?

[Luis Verano]: Oh, absolutely. So our relationship was Burlington, really Vermont. It expanded to being a Vermont connection really, because Honfleur is going to be celebrating a thousand years and Burlington is going be part of that celebration. We brought Boy Scouts, we had arts, we had art exchanges. Sabre Fields was an artist in residence in Honfleur. People from Honfleur have come to Vermont and to Burlington probably every two, three years, except for during the pandemic, we had a little bit of a break, but we did it by Zoom. And then we did different things by Zoom that we couldn't have done as broadly in person because it involved so many more people. So, the education we did, we had a relationship with Burlington High School. Back in the day before there was a lot of chats going on, it was email and it was writing letters, but now it's Zoom sessions. We're trying to redevelop that even more. As you know, our youth are our future. Anything we can do with the youth in our country and their country brings adults into the future society that understands each other's cultures and how we work and opportunity. We've had exchange students that went on to have jobs, internships. I actually hosted two different youths that came and went into one culinary. And the opportunities come because of that. And I think Burlington, the creation of Burlington, all through a sister city back in 2012, Lake Champlain is what brought us together. It's part of what the quintessential celebration was with Canada and Quebec. And as you can see, it kind of just keeps growing. And so there's people on our committee, on the Au Fliere Committee that are much more than a person sitting at a table. They're connections. Everybody's an action person. We have people from St. Michael's College. We have arts, Burlington City Arts. Anyway, it's very diverse. We have a group of people coming in the 2026. And of course, it's our bicentennial celebration, which we also ended up happening with that. We have the Lumiere Brothers factory on Pine Street at Burlington Beer Company that we learned about because of people that are on our committee and we reconnected them with Leon France, but also finding out that there's travels there. I was the honorary consul to France in Vermont for seven years. And I just transferred that post to someone else who was a good friend. And I was named Chevalier. Tim always reminds me that. I should mention that it's a knight by the president of France for the work I've done, like in over twenty years in my different affiliations and with whether it was the city of Burlington because I was with public safety, fire and police, but also because I did work with the state of Vermont. And again, I think that was why I was asked to be on this committee. And I can answer a specific question if you have something in mind, but was that where you were going or?

[Edye Graning]: Yeah, it was just to talk about how it's changed the relationship and the business and cultural exchanges. You talked about all of it. Tourism, right? Absolutely. We work with

[Luis Verano]: the chamber, whether it's Vermont Chamber or Champlain Chamber. Every time we have guests coming, we expose them. We have a lot to offer to not just France, but other countries as well. And we take for granted sometimes, like we have Schuylkiller Museum, they have the Monet, the impressionist art that we are so close. The mayor of Monfur came and goes, we can't get that close to that Monet in France. But here in Vermont, you can walk right up to it and I get chills because it was the most touching. Those connections were thirteen years ago, and those have lived on the Rotary, the Burlington Rotary Club and the Honfleur Rotary Club. You see how everything always we did a sailing for Crohn's disease, which is a worldwide initiative. And that was through the Rotary, but because Altair Sister City is affiliated, we help promote it and that's what we're here for. And we'll continue to do that regardless of the sister state program with the state of Vermont. But now we rise it from a sister city to a sister state, which is at a country level. And I think that has huge value and impact that we haven't really officially. I think what's been done in different capacity, and General Knight has done a lot. Priscilla Preston with the Vermont Council on World Affairs, very, very active, and I think those are very key components of what will make the sister state program for Vermont. What we learned from other states that have done sister city, sister state programs was some of the things maybe we can avoid from Vermont. I think I'm pleased to say that Vermont team was attentive to what could have been done better, and we are going to avoid doing the things that will just waste time or not be productive and then introduce things that, ah, like we're talking to you right now and wanting the bill to be clear, having a reporting mechanism, having the right people on the group makes it so that we can actually have some deliverables that you can all appreciate. Hopefully, that's the plan.

[Edye Graning]: I don't want to be

[Luis Verano]: just be talking, so I'm sorry. Okay.

[Michael Marcotte]: Other questions? Thank you, Louise.

[Luis Verano]: You're welcome.

[Monique Priestley]: Susan? Everyone,

[Susan Evans McClure]: Susan Evans McClure, the executive director of the Vermont Arts Council. Thanks for getting into this in such detail too. I testified about this way back in 2024 when this bill existed and became the committee, and I think there were some really important questions brought up by this committee about that bill and being on the sister cities sister states committee there's a lot of committees in my life. Being on the sister states committee, I think we worked really hard to answer those questions. And while this is a little my lane really is the cultural part and the arts exchange. I think the committee did a really good job of aligning this with specific pieces of international relations. I think one of the concerns questions that was brought up is are we we didn't wanna get too far out ahead of our skis on building relationships that were kind of extra too far, extra governmental. So the committee worked hard to include some specifics that were aligned with the way the some of the federal government rules around how to deal with international countries. So that was something I thought was a really good outcome from the committee. I also was just amazed learning about how much is already happening in Vermont in terms of international exchange, especially from the people on this committee. Everyone had a story of, we host this group from this country. We have a there are multiple sister city relationships. There's touring international artists in the state. Patricia Preston, who couldn't be here today, the Vermont it's called International Affairs. Council and World Affairs. Thank you. They do amazing things, really putting our state bringing our state to the world and bringing the world to our small state. It is becoming harder and harder for international artists to tour and travel across America. So I think anything that we can do to encourage international artists to be part of our Vermont culture, it only enriches everything that we do here. It's good for American artists to see what's happening in other countries. It's good for international artists to be here and see how we do things. A lot of this does, a lot of the questions that have been raised and things we've talked about, like some of this does feel mushy in terms of economic development. It's hard to put a number on a relationship, but the stories that we heard through the committee were how important starting with relationship was. And there are things that come out of these kind of committed partnerships that no one could foresee. And those overall do really benefit the state. I think this has been a really well considered process. Lee's brought up the, we had a lot of folks in who, from other states who have official sister state partnership programs, and they really did not hold back telling us what did not work about the way they were set up. And we really took that to heart, making sure that the partnerships, funding management that we're recommending was really well considered. So that we're setting up something that kind of is the best case scenario between government, our local nonprofits who are kind of internationally minded and the impact on Vermont's residents and citizens. So I think this is one of those examples where it's not gonna solve every problem in the state to have a sister states partnership, but it's gonna be do some good for some people, and that feels like a really positive thing to me for the state. So the arts council is fully in support of it and happy to play a role, in building these relationships and bringing both Vermont artists internationally and then international artists to Vermont too.

[Brig. Gen. Henry "Hank" Harder]: Is it okay if I speak on behalf of the So for here, General Hank Carter, the Deputy Adjutant General, and for General Mike, thank you for the invitation to him. Thank you for the leadership on the committee. I'm here with Lieutenant Colonel Gene Enriquez. And General Knight has got a conflict, he couldn't make it. But I really want to echo everything that's already been said. For those of you who don't know, the Vermont National Guard has had multiyear relationships through what's called the State Partnership Program. So that is a Department of Defense program that's heavily linked to the State Department program. Our first State Partnership country was North Macedonia starting in 1993. And then we added Senegal in 2008, And then most recently, Austria in 2022. We're one of only a handful of National Guard states that has three partnership countries. And it was born out of the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the early '90s. And we've had strong ties with North Macedonia since then, and then the other two countries, Senegal and Macedonia. And so it was great that the legislature decided to add the adjutant general or his or her representative to this committee, because I believe we have some experience that can add to the committee. And it was a really positive experience for us all to be there. You know, our subject matter expert is Lieutenant Colonel Enriquez. And I will say that one of the things that we were able to help promote is, you all may know that last year is when Burlington partnered with chess. So there's the second biggest city in Senegal is chess. And I think that Lieutenant Colonel Enriquez and the Guard was able to help facilitate that with the city of Burlington. So they formalized that last year in 2025. So I don't really have a whole lot to add other than it was a real positive experience and it was a good collaboration. And it does show that what we learned through the pandemic of getting things done on Zoom is possible. I've always rather to be in person, but it is efficient for sure. And unless you have questions for me, I'll call up Jean Enriquez, who is much more worldly than I am. He can

[Michael Marcotte]: answer your course. Thank

[Monique Priestley]: you.

[Michael Marcotte]: Awesome. Prepared to speak, but

[Lt. Col. Gene Enriquez]: I will do so. I'm lieutenant Colonel Enriquez. So I'm gonna meet all of you. I'm the director of the Vermont National Guard International Affairs Program. I have been for the last four years, but a few years prior to that, I was also our representative to the US embassy in North Macedonia. We we we maintain a presence in all the embassies that general Harter mentioned. I don't wanna be just an echoing soundboard, but everyone has has mentioned the key, the value add for for having this bill pass, not just for trade, not just for international relations, but especially cultural relations. I moved to Vermont when I was 18 from The Philippines. I grew up between Asia and and Europe as a child, and I've learned that these international experiences and being able to connect with people outside of your normal sphere just brings so much to an individual. And these exchanges that Patricia Preston runs through the Vermont Council of World Affairs, even in our military engagements, seeing our soldiers connect with soldiers from other countries for the first time, it it brings a whole depth to the state that whether you realize it or not is a big contributor to national affairs. Since Vermont is per capita one of the largest producers of Peace Corps volunteers. And while it existed, a lot of Vermonters were in USAID. So the state has a lot of capacity for for trying to share its best with the world, and I I I find this is an excellent opportunity to advance that. And I thank you for the time and for allowing me to be on the committee.

[Michael Marcotte]: Lieutenant Colonel? Thank

[Edye Graning]: you.

[Michael Marcotte]: Well, thank you, Ed, and thank General Knight as well. Last year, I think when we were contemplating this legislation and creating the task force, General Knight was talking on us, and we understood how important it was to get the guards' experience on the task force when we're trying to create the sister state legislation. So we certainly appreciate everything that you brought to the table. Thank you.

[Peter Lynch]: Good afternoon. I'm Peter Lynch. I'm a retired founding director of Green Across the World, which does environmental and cultural exchanges for high school students, virtually, but also middle school students. And I still serve as a consultant to the organization. And I think I was a Senate appointee to this working group, and I think I was selected because I was very involved with bringing a sister state relationship between Tottori Japan and Vermont to fruition. That was agreement was signed in 2018 by governors Hirai and and, of course, governor Scott. So there's not much I can say that wouldn't be redundant. And I do want to thank you, Edye, and all of those who are sponsoring this bill for bringing this to the table and what is truly a challenging I thought last year was challenging for the legislature. This year's even more so. So I appreciate that. And I think the one thing I'll add that it's maybe not new, but I'll try to distill The one one thing that I'm really excited about this bill for is the idea that all the good things that are happening internationally, whether it's with the Guard or Council of World Affairs or wherever it is or commerce are being looked at intentionally with benefit to the state of Vermont intentionally embedded. And that ultimately an eye is kept out toward commerce. Because if commercial interests thrive, then it makes all these other elements of exchange that much easier to accomplish. So I thank you, and I'll reiterate what Lisa and others have said that it was a wonderful working group to be part of. And, you know, productive, focused, got the job done, maybe despite my participation, but you know, anyway, I really appreciate it and very proud of the state. So thank you for your work.

[Michael Marcotte]: Stick around for questions.

[Monique Priestley]: That's alright.

[Michael Marcotte]: Got one more. Witness represent Casey's just across the way. Representative Casey, how are you?

[Representative Casey]: Hey, everybody. How are you? Good.

[Michael Marcotte]: Good. Thank you for joining us.

[Representative Casey]: Thank you.

[Michael Marcotte]: We're taking your Iowa's presenter on the sister state bill. I know you wanted to chat with us.

[Representative Casey]: Yeah, so I'd love to chat about the piece that obviously repeals the Irish Trade Commission. I think I was disappointed to see that in the bill. Just a few months ago, the entire body approved this, this committee approved this to be enacted. It was the second biennium in a row that this went before the full house and a voice vote. And it felt like we were moving in a really positive direction on it. Since the passage, the treasurer's office has been working hard on this. There were a few meetings. The governor has appointed two folks to the trade commission, former president pro tem John Campbell and tax commissioner Bill Schuldice there. And there there have been a few meetings that folks have been invited to, meeting with the prime minister. This Thursday, there's gonna be a Zoom meeting with Enterprise Ireland. That's 900 businesses that do business in Vermont. And talk about the 200,000 plus American employees who work for Irish companies here. I should also tell you that on Friday, we'll be visited by a member of European Parliament, Maria Walsh. She represents the Northwest Corner of Ireland as, again, one of the European legislators. So this is part of it. You know? She's she's excited about the trade commission. She's coming here to talk to us, meet with our leadership, and talk about how Ireland and Vermont can work together. So I recognize there's a different structure that's envisioned here, but I don't see why they can't coexist. And frankly, it feels like a bad faith at first. If Ireland comes to us with an open hand there, we take it. And then a few months later say, no. Sorry. Thanks. No. Thanks. We're we're just kidding. You know? We're not doing the trade commission now. We'd like you to work in this construct that we're envisioning. I I don't think it's right. I think it's like the opposite of diplomacy. Honestly, it's I think it's embarrassing for the state to have this happen. So I I'd really encourage this committee to reconsider this. I would ask you to because we have some real positive momentum going here. I think we can do great things working with the country of Ireland. Again, it's the gateway to Europe. It's the largest English speaking country in Europe. And, yeah, they're eager to work with us. We've had several legislators go over just this last August. If you talk to Sean Sweeney, if you talk to Carol Odie, who was over there last year, Molly Burke the year before, building ties. You know? But having the trade commission established where you have sort of ongoing people on there it creates a sustained connection. And yeah, I feel really bad about repealing this, if that's the direction the committee's going. I don't think it's right at all. So I'm happy to answer any questions about it. I can bring in another PowerPoint like I did last year, But we've talked about it for three years now, so I just don't see the motivation here.

[Michael Marcotte]: Questions for Rutland and Casey?

[Representative Casey]: Can I ask committee members what went into this? What was the decision making?

[Edye Graning]: Yeah, when we passed the Trade Commission last year with a year delay, it was to allow the work of this sister state task force to finish its work. Because that had passed the previous year and that the body who is here now, that task force was putting together the work to figure out if that was something that we could do as a state. And so, to open up a program to more countries in a very clear format that is not only trade, but also cultural and education interaction feels like a really good way to go for Vermont. It is not choosing one place because they came to us, but it's us saying, This is how we want to work with the world, and these are the parameters that we need you to come to us with. And how do we develop those relationships together? And so that's what the sister state group put together. Not to say that Ireland wouldn't be near the top of the list. They're a partner that we have today, along with Canada, different parts of Canada, with Taiwan, we're close with other parts of the territory. We've relationships with other places. But it didn't make sense. When we, as a sister state group, heard testimony from other states who have sister state programs, one of the things, and I think Susan and Tim both alluded to this, one of the things that they said to us is, don't do this in a way that is not clear, with clear boundaries, with clear startfinish, with we had other states who said to us, we've had these kinds of programs where a different legislator came to us with the wanting to have a partnership, and now we're left cleaning all of that mess up. And so part of repealing this is to put it all together in a way that is a clear path that Vermont can manage. We're not a big state. We don't have a big department. This is going to sit small in agency and it needs to be clear for everybody what is necessary, what has to happen.

[Representative Casey]: Was it a recommendation of the Sister State Task Force to repeal the commission?

[Edye Graning]: It was a recommendation from the sister state task force to learn from best practices from the other states and to do a program in a way that took their best practices and put them together. And one of those best practices is not to have multiple different avenues in, because then you don't have a way to manage that program.

[Representative Casey]: What I would say is, there's about 30 Irish trade commissions across the country now. There's other bills in place there. It's been a successful model. I'll just give the example I gave last year. Irish company up in Georgia, baby formula, decided to, like, pull up and go to Indiana, I think it was. And a trade commission like this would be custom designed to reach out, work with the business, see if there was anything we could do over at the legislature to make a company like that stay in business. I think as we, like, are embarking into a place where the divide between America and Europe seems to be growing, it's not good business to you know, I get a call from an Irish senator over the weekend. What did we do to you? I was like, why is this even on the table? Like, we're trying to work with you. And yeah, it just feels like a bad way to do business. And I hope. You know, again, the committee would reconsider it. There was a lot of compromise that went into the initial draft of the building, including a repeal in 2030. So this was essentially a three year pilot project, but we're pulling out the chair before we can even sit at the table. Do

[Edye Graning]: you wanna talk about what the trade commission is allowed to do and the way it's structured in law right now and what those mean? The law that we passed is setting up a fund at the treasurer's office that can be used by legislators in a very loose manner to encourage trade with Ireland. It does not seem like good governance. It almost seems like a slush fund for that purpose. And I'm not sure where that balance of whatever compromises you're talking about were. But not The sister state program, again, uses information learned from other states on how to do this in a way that is good governance, that is upstanding, that is clear and transparent. This is not against Ireland, perhaps. This is about creating opportunity for multiple partnerships, not just with one, that is a fund in the treasurer's office.

[Representative Casey]: I mean, I would push back on sort of the notion of being a slush fund for legislators. We don't even know if there's any legislators on the Trade Commission at this point. Everything would be subject to the public records request. And part of the compromise was this initially came to this chamber with an appropriation on it. And we thought it's not the best use of taxpayer dollars if we can fund it privately. I think people would be fine with like, a appropriation for this. But again, that was a compromise. And this is the model that works in other states. There's 30 of them operating now. I don't think we've seen anything nefarious going on. But if you have a relationship with another country, there's the expectation that if you have receptions or something, you would share costs. If you want to bring over a professor who would maybe give a speech about the Irish famine, the UVM or something, you would cover that cost. If you want to send a group of step dancers over to Ireland there for an exchange program, that would be the kind of things they do there. But it's not like people boozing up on trips or anything, like using the taxpayer dollars for like, so loose. The treasurer's office have been working on this. They've been talking to folks. They've been setting it up. I would trust them to manage it pretty well and not let that type of behavior that would go on there. So I just don't see where that's coming from. Don't agree.

[Edye Graning]: That's not the treasurer's role. The treasurer holds the money, they don't manage the money. Did a lot of research. So this was

[Representative Casey]: Well, it's housed in the treasurer's office.

[Susan Evans McClure]: Can you imagine working within the sister state construct to create some kind of relationship or more formal relationship with Ireland?

[Representative Casey]: Maybe eventually. I think the Sister Thing program has to catch up to what we're doing right now, though. It shouldn't be the other way around. But maybe in the future, I don't know. I think we have set up I know just a couple of weeks ago in corrections with the Arts Council, we gave them an opportunity to raise private money for some of the art and state buildings program. It's not completely unheard of, you know? Have a quasi public entity except in private dollars.

[Unknown Committee Member]: This is not really a question, but just a question in general. Was Ireland considered in the conversations about the sisters? Were you in direct conversation with them? You in conversations

[Representative Casey]: with First time I've heard of this repeal was looking at this bill and yep.

[Unknown Committee Member]: It's not necessarily about the repeal, but just in trying to comport a system and a structure that can also accommodate what Ireland's doing and what the rest of the state of Vermont is attempting to do. I would love to see a way that we could possibly comport these programs. And I'm wondering if there's been any conversation at

[Monique Priestley]: all.

[Edye Graning]: Why wouldn't Ireland be allowed to be a sister state with Vermont? Of course they could. Of course,

[Unknown Committee Member]: Ireland could be part That's the not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that they come to and we have on the books a very particular structure for what they're doing. And what we're talking about here is also another specific structure. And I'm just like, are we having the conversations that we need to have so we can actually settle this? I'm not saying that Arden wouldn't be eligible. Obviously, they would be, but the parameters by which that happens, I think, clearly need to be sorted out.

[Representative Casey]: I'm sorry to come in a bit hot, guys. I realize I am, but seriously, I think this is an important program. I think it's catching momentum. And I think it'd be an absolute pity if we poured water on it at a time where it's catching fire there. Again, if we have somebody from European Parliament coming to Montpelier on Friday, that's a beautiful thing. And the trade commission is part of the reason these conversations are happening and good things can happen from us.

[Monique Priestley]: Apologies. So the task force was going on over the summer. Did you have the opportunity to meet with task force members and talk about these issues?

[Representative Casey]: No. We've only had two members appointed by the governor so far, but I did speak to the speaker's office. Oh, the appointments are still happening because you had delayed it a year, right?

[Monique Priestley]: I guess my question was whether you had the opportunity to talk.

[Representative Casey]: I did. I did. I was talking to John Campbell last week and former president, Senate president. Yep. So he's one of the first appointees and he's really looking forward to it and has a ton of ideas to bring to the table.

[Monique Priestley]: Did he have an opportunity to talk to task members over the summer or anything?

[Edye Graning]: I think he's talking about the sister

[Susan Evans McClure]: state Yes, task

[Unknown Committee Member]: I'm referring to.

[Representative Casey]: Oh, no, no.

[Michael Marcotte]: Okay, thank you. Other questions for representative Casey?

[Representative Casey]: All right, I appreciate the time everybody. Thank you very much.

[Michael Marcotte]: We'll take your recommendation under consideration. So why don't we take 10? We're gonna come back and have ready prescription. We can go off the lines

[Monique Priestley]: and move

[Michael Marcotte]: back in time