Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Good morning, everyone. This is the Vermont House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development. It's Friday, 01/16/2026 at 10:27 in the morning. We're back here to finish up the report from our legislative intern, Cabot. So, Cabot, thank you for your flexibility. We certainly appreciate it, but we, more importantly, we really like to hear what you have discovered in our counterparts in the senate. Before we start, welcome back, representative Cooper. Glad to have you back with us in person. Congratulations again on your twin spur. We're glad to see that you get some rest.

[Cabot Sales (UVM legislative intern)]: Alright. Once again, for the record, Cabot Sales, UVM, legislative intern. I'll pick up where I left off, which is s one twenty five, an act relating to collective bargaining. This bill was vetoed last session, and it was the majority opinion of the committee that they would not continue to work on the bill this session. Moving on, international trade and business recruitment. This was another overview and general priorities. The top issues, tariffs, trade regarding Canada specifically. And Canadian companies are looking to expand into Vermont to avoid tariffs. That was a sticking point that they were talking about. And there were no numbers or stats given on the economic trade impact of tariffs at the moment. Major trends that they're noticing are outside interests, outside businesses, not just in Canada looking to expand especially into Vermont's bordering towns. They discussed the trade the state trade expansion program, which is 250,000 in federal funding. There's some uncertainty about that program continuing. Last year, it did support 43 companies in Vermont. And they also discussed semiconductor manufacturing and recruiting Southeast Asian companies to include Vermont in the supply chain for semiconductor manufacturing. Other efforts that they're working on include partnering with foreign countries that have similarities to Vermont. They noted Austria and Iceland specifically, and not much data or information regarding what that would look like. They're asked to the committee. They discussed a Canadian market representative. They also will be receiving, it was unclear, either $150,000 or $300,000 in funding from the state over the next two years. They discussed the importance of revitalization for infrastructure that could be attractive to outside businesses coming into the state, and they also talked about the Vermont brand and promoting that as a selling point for outside business. The committee requested a follow-up to discuss specific barriers that they could address for international trade. After that was VIDA, the Vermont Economic Development Authority. This was another overview and priorities. They gave an overview of VIDA's recent work, and they highlighted the recent success of venture capital investments investments that VITA has been making, though they did not provide any specific return information on that. They're asked to the committee was to be included as a lender in commercial housing projects. So VITA will be able to lend to housing projects, not as a primary lender, but if other lenders are unavailable, they would be able to step in and lend at their favorable rates. Other priorities for VITA include increasing outreach and awareness of Vida's offerings for businesses in Vermont. They want to do more lending to venture capital backed entities and get in at an earlier stage of business development than they previously have to help more businesses grow. Yeah. And then lastly, Advance Vermont. Tom Cheney with Advance Vermont, which is a nonprofit that's focused on post secondary readiness in Vermont, so career paths and educational paths after high school. He provided an overview of the work that they're doing and some upcoming actions, including being more intentional and consistent with post secondary planning throughout the entire educational process. They are, excuse me, recognizing changes in the post secondary experience. So the experience people are having after high school is changing, and they really want to create a pathway for students to be able to manage that transition more effectively. Increasing awareness regarding usership of their platform. They have a lot of tools, but they really want to focus on getting more data on the impact they're actually having on students using these tools and getting a wider reach through various ways, including making trusted adults aware that these tools are available. The people who students goes to to say, hey, what do I do after high school? Making them aware of these tools. And his ask to the committee was to lay a foundation to formalize K through 12 career and education and K through 12 transformation and CTE reforms. So create a more formalized and consistent way of defining what the pathway is from K through 12 and CTE to post postsecondary experiences. Because right now, the understanding of that is fairly fragmented and talked about in different ways across the state. And he also asked for $600,000, which is up from a $150,000 that he received last year from the state. And that concludes my report for this week. Yeah. My

[Jonathan Cooper (Member)]: question pertains to that last point. Yeah. Was he envisioning Christian envisioning that Advance Vermont would be the entity laying that foundation, and that's why the ask is increased? Yes. So

[Cabot Sales (UVM legislative intern)]: I think he he wants I don't he didn't say specifically whether he wants to lay that foundation. I think based on the work that he's doing, he in in some ways is. I think he wants more awareness in schools of his tools that are available and more people using the tools that already exist. Whereas right now, it's really an ad hoc type of thing and building out a.

[Jonathan Cooper (Member)]: Thank you.

[Cabot Sales (UVM legislative intern)]: That was my understanding. Yeah.

[David "Dave" Bosch (Member)]: What was that asked for this coming year?

[Cabot Sales (UVM legislative intern)]: 600,000. Questions?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Cabot, thank you very much. Thank you. No. I know I know you. Hi. Is there anyone from DFI coming over or did we invite us? Probably not. But I think It's fine. Yeah. You said I think they were fine with your with your edits. I did see that.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: You wanna

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: thank you, Maria.

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: Again.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: Sorry.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Yeah. The new best paragraph. I

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: don't know what page you have, Bryce. No. Getting into the Zoom meeting. Sorry. Okay. Here we go. Maria Royal with Legislative Counsel. And so what I've just pulled up and what we can walk through is a draft commerce amendment to the DFR bill, which is H six forty eight. Sorry. Trying to keep track of my bills. And what I did is all of the changes that you requested yesterday, I included in here and I highlighted them in yellow, and we'll go each one. I didn't always show the stricken language just to make it faster to get the final draft, but I can tell you what was there. So the very first change is wherever there was oak to include or affirmation. I think there were four. I did a word search. So I believe all of those were bought. And then the next change is on page four. How you changed consumer litigation fundings are no longer registered or licensed. There was just one instance that we had missed. Okay. And then then I'm gonna go to page 10. Sorry for all the scrolling. And the change that's here, this is just a suggestion by DFR. It had said, you know, responding to the commissioner's stated reason or reasons for the denial, wanted to change the language to refusing the renewal request just to make it much clearer. And then on the following page, this was where you wanted to add a comma, information obtained during, comma, or for, This is with regard to examinations and submission of information. Then, Oath or Affirmation, that's on page 12. And I'm going to go all the way to 37. Forgot my glasses, so sorry. Okay, that's pretty close. Are those readers? Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Know, I was gonna bring them. They're not very strong.

[Kirk White (Ranking Member)]: So before you get excited,

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: they might No. But they're better. They're better than what I got. That's so funny. I was about to grab mine. I'm like, oh, I don't need them. I can see just fine. Nope. So and then this was just the requested change. Instead of the existing language of financial institution, just use person, which is more general and broader. And now I'm gonna jump to page 46. Oh, just minor. I had forgotten to add just the reader assistance. Because the first reader assistance is banking, financial and related services, the money transmitters and so on. This next section is with respect to the institutions, banks, credit unions. And then there are a few sections. This was that language about if the governing body doesn't meet monthly, appointing an executive committee that meets monthly. No substantive changes. The DFR just wanted the language in each of those three sections to just match. So, that happens also in this following section on the next page. And then we're going to go to page 56. Same thing. This was just the so now it reads identically, two separate sentences. I'll make two more. The next one is on page 63. Oath or affirmation. And finally, minor change on page 77. Oops, just correcting a typo. Never get it right. Someone's going to need to show me how to just go to the right page. A person found by the commissioner or a court to have engaged. It said have. It just forgot to. And those are all of the changes in this draft strike all amendment. And, I did share a copy yesterday with Joe, and I want to speak for the Department, but he said it looked fine.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Any questions for Maria?

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: Any comments? Thank you. So

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: I would entertain a motion to report favorably on 5.1 strike all amendment to

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: 1.2. The draft without the highlighting is going to be 1.2. Okay. Alright.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: I entertain a motion to report favorably on H six forty eight, by call amendment 1.2.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: I so move. Move. Don't have to say it all out.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: I move that we report favorably. So it's been moved. Second. Second. Okay. Moved by representative Duke, seconded by representative Bosch. Is there any further discussion? If not, the acting clerk can call the roll.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: Representative Bosch?

[David "Dave" Bosch (Member)]: Yes.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: Representative Boo?

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: Yes. Take care of stop changing.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: Representative Cooper? Yes. Representative Duke? Yes. Representative Micklus? Yes. Representative Olson? Yes. Representative Priestley is absent. Representative White votes, yes. Representative Branning? Yes. Representative Marcotte? Yes. Okay. Ten zero one. Wait to report.

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: Yes. Don't want to read

[Herb Olson (Member)]: nothing. Anyone else who wants to do it, but I'd be happy to help the community.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: David, you haven't done one yet.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: No. Okay.

[David "Dave" Bosch (Member)]: I did one last year. You did? Okay.

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: Michael's the only one.

[Kirk White (Ranking Member)]: Oh, you're the only one who has

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: a bill. Because late Dave, we've had

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: a lot bills that I really don't fully understand and it really frustrates me. And you can go through it 20 times, but it's just it's some of this stuff is really confusing for me. So if there's a script, I'll just read it and then at the end of the thing, I'll just say interrogations are by nature aggressive. Please don't ask any.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Okay. You just nailed to the chair. What's that? Do you wanna reward it?

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: I'm happy to.

[Herb Olson (Member)]: Unless that unless

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: I know that. I'm my I I don't I mean, I will do it because I feel

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: like I'm obligated to come out of the There'll be a bill that we do that you'd be comfortable with. Which one is We'll find. There will be one. Get one. Don't know what it is yet. You still have water? It's first.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: They keep the former

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Yeah. Let me have it. Order. Okay. Great. Maria, thank you. Sent that on your list.

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: Probably anniversary.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Okay. Great. Thank you. You found paperwork on your desk. The system or anything from appropriations and a letter that was sent by appropriations to the agency. So go through those, look at them. We start talking to the agency and departments that we have jurisdiction over, account their budget, This is what we expect to get from them, with what appropriation centers they sent to in October. These are suggestions on how we look at that, maybe the type of questions we might ask, what we should be looking for when we go through the drug treatment patients for them. It won't be next week, but probably the following week that we'll start the for safety.

[Herb Olson (Member)]: I'm wondering, real tight fiscal year, has the committee given the policy committees any guidance on sort of power approach? We only get so much money kind of thing?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Well, we number one, we don't know what the budget is yet. It's true. Get that Tuesday. Right. And then we'll see and and it's not just it's not just money or new programs that they're looking at. It's what are they cutting.

[Herb Olson (Member)]: Exactly.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: What does that mean for Vermonters? Right. So those the two things I think that we need to think about. And the choices that the administration is making, You know, are there better could there be better choices that are made that lessen the effect on the models? Yeah.

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: I'm just curious. I I know I watched the joint fiscal meeting back in December, I think it was. And there was all this there's a lot of talk about the money's not coming in. But I know from last year, there was a couple grants that I was told that the money was not coming in and they finally came in.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: It's just like super slow. Is that That's another problem.

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: Right. And I'm not And get it. And for example, the Vermont Historical Society, they had a grant that was supposed to come in. It didn't come in. I'm sure my email had nothing to do with it. But I'm going to say But it but it did finally come in, and they didn't think they were gonna get it. And I you know, being on the school board, there's a lot of grants that they were like, oh, it's not gonna come in, and then it just came in. It's are we is the money going to come in or is it just coming in slow? And I guess that's what I don't have a full grasp of because every single time I follow-up, money finally comes in. It just takes forever. So

[Kirk White (Ranking Member)]: that's the issue with the executive orders. So if the executive order happens and it reduces a grant and it gets challenged, it takes time through the courts and for the courts to determine whether the executive branch can limit funding that the legislative branch

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: Right. So we Most of the time,

[Kirk White (Ranking Member)]: the executive branch can't stop funding that the legislative branch produced. But we don't know that that's going to be the case every single time. So we can't answer that.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: I wish we could. We would

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: make our lives a lot easier.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: It a whole mushroom, but that's not enough money.

[Anthony "Tony" Micklus (Member)]: Trillion dollar question.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Also, I think some of the things we to be thinking about, too, of the questions that we ask of any of the departments or agencies, What's your staffing level? Are you reducing staff? Are you not filling positions? How many positions aren't you filling this year because of attrition? Those are the types of things because that gives us an idea of what can we expect from those agencies and departments.

[Jonathan Cooper (Member)]: One of the questions that I'm having, maybe this document which I haven't read through and I will, sort of addresses this. But I think in the past, you've sort of been advised that witnesses are here to provide us with information not to feel on the hot seat. Or in this environment where we're talking about having fewer resources, I guess maybe something that's important to know is just we have these difficult conversations or ask these questions in ways that keep the focus on funds perhaps, and not so much our assessments of people's programs or things of that nature. Is that something that is a fine line or is that mostly just stick to the rules you learn about nice in kindergarten and it'll be okay?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: I think there's ways of asking questions that don't come out as being combative or I think it's legitimate for us to ask, what's your staffing level going? Why did you go this route instead of another route? And how did you come to those decisions? I think that's the way that we should approach it. It's not like pound on, you shouldn't be feeling that soon. It's more like getting an understanding of they came to the center, they're going down that road as opposed to going down another road.

[Kirk White (Ranking Member)]: I just want to add, if we see that they have programs that are duplicative, that's our job to ask on that too. So I don't know how much of that we're going to see, but we're trying to make sure the spend is being spread to the right places. And you know, if we're doing the same program slightly differently, then we're not doing our, you know, then it's not working.

[Anthony "Tony" Micklus (Member)]: I mean, that's my point is, you know, how many of these organizations, we have 10 different organizations all doing the same thing and it seems like consolidation would be a logical next step. But how do you approach that? Do we have the power to do that? Is there really any questions we can ask?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: We're going to give a recommendation to appropriations and have that conversation with them. In the end, they're the ones that have to put all that together. I would remind everyone too, we're we're we will be inundated with Right. Outside people or organizations that would normally get funding that may have their funding cut Right. By the budget that we're gonna see on Tuesday. So they're gonna come to us asking for us to restore them or help them. And I just I I mean, I I think we need to make sure that we will listen and make recommendations, but there's no promises. It's going to be an extremely tough budget year this year. And we, And I'm hoping that the people that come to us to try to intervene on their behalf understand that as well, that there's only so much that we can do. I think more than ever, we really need to evaluate all those programs. And like you said, the redundancies that other programs might be providing the same sort of offers to the monarchs as they do.

[Herb Olson (Member)]: This might be premature. They don't have these budget requests. The Appropriations Committee given any thought to giving us some sort of target to work from or anything in terms of budgets? No.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: I know they used to say they used to tell us, like, you have x amount of knowledge to spend for economics. Don't even think they they didn't do that last year. No. Know. Didn't think they're gonna do it this year either. Okay. So we just saw that. We yeah. If there's something that really catches our eye that we really are passionate about that that it it, you know, can really help Vermonters and it's not it's not in the budget, then we can advocate for that. But I think we really need to remember that things are going be really mean. But that's what I'm thinking. And we may be able to provide some recommendation for some dollars that may not go, you know, to the extent that that organizations are looking for. But, again, it's it's gonna be tough. We owe it to our constituents. That's what

[Anthony "Tony" Micklus (Member)]: we're here to do. That's funny. Cut it down. You know?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Everybody likes to talk about it, and nobody likes to do it.

[Kirk White (Ranking Member)]: Well, it's I mean

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: And that's that's the truth. I mean, we we all like to talk about cutting the government spending until it's our program that's being cut.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: Well, there's a constituency for everything.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Yeah. Mhmm. Yep. Well, and and, know, I mean, probably the first place that you start budget cutting is labor. My opinion, we're bare bones now and how much more deeply can make that sad. And it has ramifications. Whether it's getting grants out, the ability to get grants out. And that's why I think we really need to think about the reports. What do we need for reports? Do we really need a report? How

[Kirk White (Ranking Member)]: are we using

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: the reports? Yeah. So that's where we will be when we get this started. When we Anna Grace, when we start asking next week for people, like, we send this letter on October 23 with our request so that they know that we're that's what we're looking for. And if they come in and they don't follow that format, that we're gonna ask them to come back with that form. And just to give you an idea of what we're looking at for the next week, Tuesday morning, the office of workforce strategy and development will be in. Just give us a board update and and office updates and how that's you know, it's their year end now and and what are things looking for and how are things looking. In the governor's address at 01:00 and fifteen minutes after the address we'll do a walk through of H639. We'll have representative Choi come in have Rick walk us through it. Wednesday, we'll be taking more testimony on H2 11. That'll be all morning. In the afternoon, have and remember, we had lunch that day with the captives across the street from twelve to one. And then at one we have the Human Rights Commission coming in to talk to us. We've never, I don't think, had them in. Think it's what they've had that conversation. And at 02:30, we'll have the captains in to talk to us on the record. And then Thursday is 09:00. It's it's any day. We'll be having people from the Northeast Kingdom as well as from the Vermont Food Bank joining us from nine to ten. Secretary Saunders will be in at ten to talk to us about their CTE concept overview. It would be similar to what she did a couple days ago at Sunday Education. We're also inviting Commissioner Smith along with that conversation and to extend that conversation into adult CTE as well. My thought is that you will probably put a committee build out on CTE, in both to see what the concept is and also the adult side of CTE and where we're putting that. Then at one, we'll have the adult education literacy funding report that just came in yesterday. We've asked Secretary Saunders again to come in and somebody from the agency administration and then some of the adult learning services from around the state to come in and give us their thoughts. Then at two we have a security briefing, and then we're on the floor. Then on Friday, we're looking at, after the course, have our legislative interns and then, fifteen minutes after the floor, we'll get the Vermont Training Program report. And then, at one Friday afternoon, the legislative council will begin, we will be talking to folks about these executive order on AI, whether it's executive order about AI. Then think, me, Ken has a couple of people also nationally that have come to us without that executive order as well. So we'll have an idea, Can we do something? If we do something, are there ramifications of that type of thing? Well, that's pretty much next week laid out. Does anybody have any reports on the committees that they've been following?

[Herb Olson (Member)]: Nothing from health care that, you know,

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: relates to energy has nothing at all relating to us.

[Jonathan Cooper (Member)]: Representative Bosch and I were entertaining the potential of a transfer of responsibility. I think there were two that I had, and I'm not yet back in full. So I was wondering, Dave, if your offer still stands around corrections and institutions, should you just

[David "Dave" Bosch (Member)]: That would be the ideal one that I would be to take. Is that I have not yet done that yet, but with everyone's concurrence, I'll take over his responsibility.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: That's fine. Just let him know next door. Who was your Who were you

[Jonathan Cooper (Member)]: working with? I hadn't even started.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Okay.

[David "Dave" Bosch (Member)]: I have already greased the skids with the colleagues. Okay. Just let them know that might

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: be Make sure they check-in with the chair, though. Make sure the chair know.

[David "Dave" Bosch (Member)]: I I will also check-in with the chair know, and, of course, the administrative assistant too, since the of information.

[Abbey Duke (Member)]: So in the Environment Committee, they had a really interesting hearing on Tuesday that was led by Secretary Kearle. Spent most of I'll back up. They spent most of the week, or a lot of the week, talking about different parts of the governor's executive order on housing. And this hearing specifically was about the part of the directive that asked for looking at the way permits are done and making them more concurrent. And so there was a hearing talking about the administration's efforts. I think there's nine different agencies that are cooperating, including Agency of Digital Services, to look at the permit structure. And what they presented was each department has focuses on making their permit as efficient as possible. But they have not worked together to make the whole system work efficiently. So they're working on that. And they are starting a pilot program focusing on housing developments of four to 10 and developing a data dashboard and a way to do permits more concurrently. They said they would come back in a month or two with an update. But it was interesting. It's worth it's worth a listen if anyone's interested in that. And they specifically were talking about it from an economic development perspective.

[David "Dave" Bosch (Member)]: Agriculture. Some of you may remember on the floor on Tuesday, ranking member, Richard Nelson, spoke to being, you know, school lunch day. And they did spend some considerable time this week discussing the Farm to School and Early Education Program, which is grants, and then low the local foods incentive for schools. And they took testimony different times throughout the week. And the ask from those two agencies in the interest of briefly keeping in the format or at least the context of these memos, they want level based funding of $500,000 for each of those two programs. It's level, but each of those two programs. And it's obviously the source of, economic driver for local, agriculture and workforce, all that. So there there's the tie in for us.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Anything else?

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: Hi.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Hi, Emily. How are doing? How are you feeling?

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: I'm doing better today, but still dealing with these headaches. I don't know what to do. My doctor can't see me until next Thursday, so I'll figure something out.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Oh, no.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: Yeah. So transportation is still getting agency reports and updates. They were looking at rural transportation and kind of the cuts and difficulties that are happening there, especially in relationship to workforce. They also were looking at a e bike program and a program that was helping older Vermonters also access bicycles. And yeah, that was pretty much it.

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes, hi.

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: I mean, e bikes, now I'm interested.

[Emily Carris Duncan (Member)]: So they're talking about the Local Motion program that is designing e bikes or providing e bikes to communities around Vermont, and they're trying to create more awareness for just the access to e bikes.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: Thank you.

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: You're welcome. You're all doing such a great job.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: So, another early lunch. I haven't mentioned it yet, but my bank is open. I've been making quite a few deposits in the last two weeks, so just so you know. Do you mean this

[David "Dave" Bosch (Member)]: Is it a bank or is it a license?

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Oh, it's it's state charter. You're

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: probably the best person. I feel

[Michael Boutin (Member)]: I feel like it's more akin to those gift cards that slowly eat away over time.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: It's interest bearing. Okay. Alright. So we're back here at one. What are we doing at one now? Hold on. It on.

[Edye Graning (Vice Chair)]: At 01:30

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: to 02:30. Yeah. And then, yeah, the will be back in to go through the two reports that they sent us yesterday. One on transactions. Suspicious transactions. I think that was what we talked to banks about last year. People coming in, can they put a hold on their accounts while they try to find out what's going on and and assist those people that are probably getting scammed? And then the other report is on course that It should be interesting, and if we finish up to our day.

[Maria Royal (Legislative Counsel)]: And do we have those reports? Have they been Yes. They've been posted on the reports and resources stage under Department of Financial Aid.

[Michael Marcotte (Chair)]: Go. And also, things that are on your desk, also have that electronic computer integrated system that was born. Okay, everybody have a good