Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Good afternoon. This is the House Appropriations Committee. It's Tuesday, 02/24/2026. It's just after 01:00 in the afternoon, and we are delighted to be welcoming representatives from our federal delegation here to talk to us about the newly, to us, released information about federal congressional spending. And in a tight budget year, it's really helpful to know what is happening out of your worlds that can help us once we think about the budget, which is why we invited you here. And it's the first time you've been to our committee, so we will introduce ourselves, and I'm happy to introduce yourselves.

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: Welcome. I'm David Yacovone from Morrisville.

[Rep. John Kascenska (Member)]: I represent the Lamoille Washington District. Nice to meet you. Good afternoon and welcome. John Kascenska from Bergen. I represent the Essex Caledonia District, which is 10 towns in the Northeast Kingdom.

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: Hi. Mike Nigro, I represent Bennington and Tom. Tom Stevens from Waterbury representing the Washington Chittenden District, which is both in Huntington and

[Rep. Martha "Marty" Feltus (Vice Chair)]: And

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I'm Robin Scheu from Middlebury. Tiffany Bluemle from Burlington.

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: Trevor Squirrell, Underhill and Jericho. Wayne Laroche, Highgate, Franklin, Berkshire and Litchfield. I'm Michael Murphy and I'm Salona. I represent Patience Anderson, the women of orchestras.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I'm Linn Dickinson. I represent St. Auguste Town. If the three of you would like to introduce yourselves, that would be great.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: I'm Katherine VanHaist. I go by Katie. I'm senator Sanders, state director.

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: I'm Rebecca Ellis. I am Senator Welch's state director.

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: I'm Jessica Nordhaus. I am Congresswoman Thallens, state director.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Oh, really appreciate you all coming today and such short notice. It's great to see you all. And we're very interested to hear, as you know, it's a very, very tight budget year we have here. I would say half and jest, all in earnest, that we may be fighting over $10,000 as we go through our budget this year. So when we saw the article come out about all of the wonderful things that you folks are doing, we thought, oh, maybe there's some stuff that we don't have to worry about so much because you guys knew it great. So we'd love to hear more about what is happening. And I think we may have some other questions as well.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: I can kick us off, and we'll leave it to you to tell us. We can each present, and then you can ask us all questions or whatever you want to do. I'll just start with a super brief history for for whom it's helpful. And then I can walk through some of Senator Sanders' projects. So for those who've been around a while, you remember congressionally directed spending as earmarks. They went away in the early 2000s because of concerns around poor management of spending. Senator Leahy was instrumental in bringing earmarks, now known as congressionally directed spending, back to us for fiscal year 2022. These projects are sort of a new iteration of earmarks. They come with a lot more strings. And that was intentional in order to ensure we were using federal taxpayer dollars really effectively and efficiently, and it wasn't sort of pet projects and pork and the things people worry about. So with that, what I like to tell people that what congressionally directed spending projects are is sort of a HOB lane for competitive grants. So pretty much everything that we can fund through congressionally directed spending projects is something that could be funded already through the government, but is maybe really hard for a small town in Vermont to be competitive for. So it allows Senator Sanders, Senator Welch, and Congresswoman Ballant to say, hey, this project meets all these requirements. We want to sort of wall off a few $100,000 to make it happen, because we know that FERC isn't going to be able to compete amongst, some large Chicago. City in yes, Chicago. So it really is sort of our fast lane for projects. But they do have to meet all of those same requirements. And I think something that a lot of people miss, which is understandable, is that once the money comes once this announcement comes out that they have been given the money, they still have to apply for the money. They have to make sure that their grant application passes muster by the agency. The agency then works. Everyone is different. Every account is different. Some of them, you submit receipts, so you get paid back as you go. Some of them, you get a lump sum of money in order to meet the requirements of the project. And then you send in your receipts. But it is a little complicated and a little convoluted. So we do really we're super proud of this money. We're really glad it is getting out to cities and towns and organizations in Vermont who we trust are going to use it really well. But it is complicated to use. For organizations that aren't used to working with grants, it can be really complex and really challenging. If you've we've given someone $100,000 but they need to pay someone $50,000 to administer the grant, it's not a great bang for the buck. So we've really focused in the past few years on innovative projects, but on ones that we're confident can be actuated at the end of the day. And so that's kind of what I'll walk you through here. I will also say, for every straightforward project, there's a complicated one. Like I said, every agency works differently. And so it really depends agency to agency how that funding is given out to each organization. Some of them already are supplanting money that would come to Vermont. So if we want to talk about some of the water and infrastructure grants, that's coming out of an existing POP that would have gone to the state. We made a decision as a unified delegation to apply because otherwise that money would go to other states. So it's a little bit funky. So I would say if you're interested in specific projects, we're happy to give you details on those because not every project is created equal.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Can we get a list of Senator Sanders' projects?

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: I can hand them to you. That would be great.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Because I think we have them from the other two. Okay. My apologies.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: I have extra copies. So I'll get you one, hopefully, we can

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah. And if

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: it can

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: be emailed to Autumn.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: Yeah, I may need to I'll email it to Autumn, actually, because I think I only have one copy here. But I'll give it to you when I'm done. They're all on our website as well. And I think the last thing I would just say is that, obviously, each of our offices puts in the requests. And Rebecca's going to walk through what that actual process looks like, we aren't necessarily guaranteed to get every project. We don't even know if it's the top five in each subcommittee or account. It's all very opaque even to us.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: When you put in. But the ones that we are looking at, the ones that you have gotten. Yes. And I do seem to recall that as a representative in the House, Representative Ballard has a maximum of 15, unlike the Senate, which doesn't seem to have a maximum. Is that right?

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: And she was able to get all 15? Yes. We submit more.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: We don't

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: get what we get. Senator Sanders has had 28 projects funded so far. And I say so far only because we are still waiting for the Department of Homeland Security appropriations to go through. And we have a number of projects that are caught up in that. DHS is obviously in a shutdown. So until there's an agreement on that, those projects won't be funded. So I'm not going to go through these one by one. But I will just say that we every we really take these projects and try to figure out where they can go best. So we have one this year in the agriculture and rural development subcommittee that is for the town of Newark to build a highway garage and fire station. Now there's other places potentially that that fire station funding could have come from. But ag is the place that made the most sense for us. Some subcommittees also require a match. So that is also really important that if a town or an organization is going to apply and they have a match, they have to be able to bring that match to the table or the federal money doesn't come down. Some of the projects that I'll highlight just quickly is we were able to secure $4,450,000 for Vermont Electric Cooperative to do advanced metering. So they are going to use that funding to purchase and install electric metering infrastructure throughout their area, which will make a huge difference, hopefully, in the electric needs being met of Vermonters and understanding the electric usage of those places. We've also a big priority of Senator Sanders is on employee ownership. So we put some money from the Financial Services and General Government Subcommittee into expanding employee ownership in Southern Vermont to help those businesses move from potentially historical family owned businesses into employee ownership as part of their transition plan. Also some funding for Vermont Law and Graduate School in there. The interior subcommittee is a place where we see a lot of those nuts and bolts infrastructure bills. So we or infrastructure projects. So we fund as many of those as we can. One of the projects that Senator Sanders is particularly excited about, that he partnered with Senator Welch on, is, a partnership with the University of Detroit Mercy in Detroit, to establish and support a new clinical dental training program and facility in Vermont. That project is particularly exciting because they did not wait for the money to get. So we already have a cohort of dental students, dental residency students in Detroit, who are going to be coming to Vermont to train. But the way that they will train is by providing dental services to Vermonters. So these are student dentists, but pretty accomplished dentists. They'll be under the supervision of a trained and licensed dentist who has completed their residency. And there's going to be approximately 40 dental chairs at this facility in Colchester. It's a fabulous site. It's the old site of the Albany College of Pharmacy. So it's repurposed. The construction team has been great to work with. They've had to trench into concrete so that they can lay the water lines for ADA or American Dentistry compliance. But it's really exciting because it's going to be a massive expansion of dental access for Vermonters, particularly those who otherwise have trouble affording the ability to go to a dentist. In working on this project, Senator Sanders was also really explicit with the folks at Detroit Mercy that we want to make sure that that dentistry isn't just happening in Colchester, but that we can get some of these student dentists out to some of our health centers in Richford and other places across the state where it's really needed. So that's a pretty exciting project that is actually already broken ground, which is very rare, but very exciting. Also, 2,380,000.00 for the Johnson Health Center to provide some specialized care for individuals with substance use disorder and mental health needs. And another project that we're pretty excited about, this is also in the subcommittee of Health and Human Services and Labor. This is for the Community Colleges of Vermont, CCV, to increase access to introductory health care courses across rural communities in Vermont. So ideally partnering again with our community health centers. CCB is going to expand their training for health care pathways. So as I'm sure everyone in this room knows, we have a huge need for health care workforce in this state. And we're hoping that the funding for CCV will help give more people the training they need.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: The health and human services areas are where we're struggling with lots of cuts and not being able to do what we want to do. So very interested in the things that all of you are doing in that arena.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: Great. And obviously, would just add, as ranking member of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee in the Senate, that's where a lot of Bernie's energy goes as well. So if there's ways that we can also be helpful in talking to some of those federal agencies to understand how the funding cuts are going to work to try to influence some decisions, we're happy to do that.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: And we probably have one, yeah.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: Know that one. Wayne, did you have a question?

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: Just, again, in terms of administrative, all of these going to happen? Are there matches going to be required for all of these?

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: Not for most of them. It's a great question. So the ag subcommittee, they are the ones that have the most reliable match. We almost always know they have a match. The amount of the match depends on how rural the location is. You sort of get scored based on how rural your community is. And the match gets smaller the more rural you are.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche (Member)]: And overhead, is there a percentage that it could be used for management or for overhead?

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: That's a great question. So I will say that most of the time, the agencies themselves do not define that. But if you know Senator Sanders, you know that he does not have a ton of tolerance for bureaucracy. So when we look at a project and assess it, we look to make sure that it's only a very small amount that's used for administration overhead. We know some is needed, but we try to keep to 10% or less.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche (Member)]: But everybody's going to have to have a formal grant proposal. Yes. And so they're going to have to be

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: able to manage and do that. That's exactly right.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: I'll just mention projects quickly. One is for the Vermont Army National Guard to construct a new facility for their family programs. Senator Sanders has been working with the Guard Family Readiness folks for many, many, many years, including for almost two decades, funding for the Vermont Guard outreach program, which was unfortunately cut last year by the administration. The good news on that is for the first time ever, Senator Sanders was successful in getting language into the National Defense Authorization Act that would allow for that program to be refunded. So we are really hopeful that that program will be refunded in the coming years. And we also know that it's really important for our guard families to have a space to go when their families are deployed and in order just to get programming. And the family programs folks do some really good work. So we were glad to be able to provide that funding through and that is through the military construction subcommittee. So there's only so much you can do there. And we have a bunch of affordable housing projects that I can walk through.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche (Member)]: Yeah, quick question on the military. So not just the military, but are all these is everybody in the loop in terms of the people that are going to or the entities that you want to get the money to?

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: So they're all going to know the timeline? Exactly. That's right. And Rebecca, I think we'll talk a little bit about what that process looks like. But every one of these folks, they apply to us. So we know who their program manager is. We've reached out to them. They know they're getting the money. They know kind of what their next steps are. But we keep working with them throughout the process so that they know to call us if they need help or if they're stuck on a particular part of the process.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: And was it Senator Sanders who did the half 1,000,000 for senior centers Also, that was kind of a big deal. I know that support them across the state.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: Yes, we're really excited about that. And we've been working with Fast Camp for the past few years to get that funding for senior centers. As a ranking member of the Health Education Committee, part of what's in Senator Sanders' jurisdiction is the Older Americans Act, which is what provides funding for senior centers and congregate meal sites. We know we have been unable at the federal level to increase the amount of federal dollars going to Meals on Wheels for years. We know that all of our meal sites spend more on a meal than the federal government is reimbursing for. So we feel like the least we can do is try to get some additional dollars to senior centers to help them meet that really important and incredibly effective need.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Thank you. I'm glad he was doing that. And then you said you're doing some stuff for affordable housing, which is another thing that we might be dealing with in the So what are the kinds of things, or how much, or

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: Sure. So the sort of biggie that we worked on with Senator Welch was funding for statewide through the Vermont Housing Conservation Board to create permanently affordable housing throughout the state of Vermont. So we're really excited about that one.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: What is

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: that for? That's $12,000,000 And that's our biggest, I think, collectively. There's also some specific programs, programs, one in Winooski through Champlain Housing Trust, one in Washington County for Good Samaritan Haven, one in Windham and Windsor for the Chalet redevelopment, a project in Barrie, and some more shared equity homeownership expansion through VHCD.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you. And

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: those are projects we're obviously thrilled to consider for the next fiscal year as well, because we know what a huge need. The only thing is this money is slow rolling. So that's the piece I always caution about. If you wanna start putting a shovel in the ground tomorrow, this is a tough way to get out.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: And you'll send a list to others. I will. You. Okay. Great.

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: Rebecca? Sure. Yeah. So I was gonna say a few words about how this process works on the Appropriations Committee side. Figured that might be interesting to you, being an Appropriations Committee. So in the Senate and the House, the appropriations committees have 12 subcommittees. And they Imagine. Get directions from the chair of the appropriation committees in the Senate and the House and decide whether or not to even have congressionally directed spending or, in the House, it's called community project funding. So when Senator Leahy was the chair of the Appropriations Committee in the Senate, he decided to go forward with congressionally directed spending. So we expect to get instructions from the Appropriations Committee and the 12 subcommittees likely in March, since it's almost the February and we don't have them yet, for fiscal year twenty seven. And so this will be instructions not only about congressionally directed spending or community project funding, but also the whole process for each of the members to make requests for other types of line items and budget requests. But we will also be getting, from each subcommittee, directions on which accounts in their subcommittee are eligible for the members to nominate projects. And so usually for each subcommittee, it's anywhere between, in the Senate, three to maybe five or seven different accounts. And these are existing programs. So what Katie just said is these are existing grant programs that, nonprofits and municipalities can be nominated for funding. And if they are nominated, it basically means that they go to the top of the list on the grant funding process. So normally, they would have to put in a competitive grant and be selected, but this puts them to the top of the list. So the members nominate projects. The members have to make sure that the projects that are nominated fit within the guidelines that are given to them by the subcommittees, which are sometimes pretty extensive. And then those nominations are usually due late April or early May. And then the members will hear from the committees, usually by August, as to whether or not their projects were accepted for the next step. And it works a little bit differently in the House than in the Senate, and Jessica can explain that. As Katie already alluded to, in the Senate, we frequently don't have a great idea of how many projects will be accepted or the dollar amount. So we judge it on the previous year. We try to put in a few extra projects in case we're going to get more money this year. But there normally are at least a few projects from each account that are cut by the committees. So that usually happens August. In the ideal world, Congress would pass its final budget by September 30. President would sign it, and we'd be off to the races. But as you know, in fiscal year twenty five, there was no budget. It was continuing resolutions, so there were no congressionally directed spending. In fiscal year twenty six, we finally, in January, got 11 of the 12 bills passed. So we're still waiting for DHS. Once the bills pass, then those lists of nominated projects go to the agencies. The agencies have different procedures, so it's different for all the agencies. Sometimes they'll do a notice of funding opportunity for congressional directed spending and make applicants apply just as they would apply for any other competitive grant. Sometimes it's a little more informal. They'll say, you're on the list. We're going to, make sure you're eligible and not go through the NOFO process. But the agencies typically ask us to wait a couple, two or three months sometimes, for them to notify the applicants of what the funding process is going to look like. Then so let's just say this year, that happens by March or April at best. And the applicants have to put in their proposals. Maybe that'll be in the summer. So they're not looking at getting or being able to even touch this money at the earliest, probably until late summer or fall. There are some, applicants who has taken them, a couple of years to pull down the money, or messages get crossed, or there's some problem in the application that has to be changed. So as Katie said, this is slow money. It's not for tomorrow. But if you have a project a couple of years out, this might be good money. Another thing that's helpful is if an applicant has experience working with that agency and that particular funding line. So if it's a USDA Rural Development Community Facilities, that can be a great source of funding. It can also be very complicated. So if an applicant has previously dealt with USDA RD, that's a check-in their favor that they have the institutional capacity to deal with this funding application and all of the tracking and accountability that needs to go with that grant. I put on your website the list of projects that were nominated, and were funded, from senator Welch. I won't go through all of them, but just say so the top areas were housing, health care, jobs, job training and childcare, community facilities, and historical facilities, so town halls, fire stations, or other community historic buildings. And and then finally, we have a list of projects, that would otherwise be funding through the Department of Environmental Conservations Yeah. Revolving funds, that we help put in. They tend to be small amounts. I'll just say a little comment on those SRF infrastructure projects. We tend to give a small portion of the total project need. For example, City of Montpelier's drinking water line system, I think their estimate for all the work that needs to be done is in the 80,000,000 to $100,000,000 range over the next fifty, probably, years, and we're able to give a couple million dollars. The advantage of the money that we're able to give through the congressionally directed spending for those, infrastructure projects is that the match that you were asking about is much more beneficial to the municipality. It's a 20%, 80% match. So 20% local, 80% federal. So even though it might be a small amount, it's a good source of funding for those recipients because it's I see some

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: of the things on the list. You've got asterisks because they're repeats. You did it jointly, and you're both showing that. Or triply in a couple of cases. The asterisks all mean something on these lists. I get that.

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: And there are three projects on that list that are on the DHS Department of Homeland Security list. And so they actually have not been funded yet, so some of the climate related and housing ones. That's all I was going to say. Happy to turn it over.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Great. Jessica. Jessica.

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: Thank you. As Katie and Rebecca both alluded to, the House has different rules for just about everything. So starting with a different name, we call it community project funding. But for everybody's ease in our office, we still refer to it as CVS. We do in the house have both a limited number. As you pointed out, maximum of 15 projects that we can submit. And they tend to be smaller dollar amounts generally. It has been our experience anyway, is that really we top out at a million or a million and a half usually because it all has to do with a percentage of the budget that is allotted that particular year. And we're also more limited in the accounts that we can use. And so we don't have the ability to fund any sort of programmatic requests or staffing requests. It really ends up being brick and mortar renovation infrastructure projects, that move through the house. There was also because of the continuing resolution and because we didn't have CDS in fiscal year 2025, one of the things that happened in both chambers is the Appropriations Committee allowed us to resubmit our 25 projects in '26. And so about a little more than half of the projects that we submitted this year were those 25 projects. So those folks have been waiting for their money for a really long time and we are very hopeful that they still need it in the same way. Of course, the downside is that as we know costs tend to go up over time. And so, are going to be working with folks to make sure that those projects that they can pull down both pull down the money and actually finish the project. I think that you probably know that housing is a huge priority for the congresswoman. Nine of the 15 projects that we submitted and she was awarded all of her 15 projects were funded, focus on supporting housing in some way either, by building or renovating structures or through water and wastewater projects that support the development of housing. And then our list also includes a smattering across our accounts or primary accounts are that ag community facilities account, the transportation, housing and urban development account, energy and water, and then commerce, justice and science. But we have only one commerce, justice and science project which is Norwich's NORI data analytics tool for helping communities coordinate resources and respond appropriately to situations on the ground, including law enforcement activities. Have aside from those, water projects, wastewater projects, several of which are joint with one or both senators. There is some infrastructure development for workforce housing redevelopment in Springfield, Brattleboro, Berlin. What am I missing?

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I'm looking at the Burlington Minusky River Bridge. Really Is million?

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: No. So the list that I sent you was the requested amount, and this was one of those instances where we knew we were gonna get far less, and we did get far less than requested, and that was a joint project, and it was funded at $1,000,000

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay, so I think on the other one, saw 800

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: from somebody. So is it 1.8 total? We have it at 850,000.

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: Okay.

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: Yeah, sorry I misspoke, that's right. We request we put in the request jointly an 8,000,000. What came back is 850,000, and that's total funding. It's not 850,000.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay. Got it. So 850 is the right number for the

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: whole thing. Got it. Correct.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Are there any others on this list that that's what you put in for, but you didn't get what is listed on here?

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: There are a couple. So the Burlington Housing Authority, the elevator modernization project, got a little more than half was funded at 500,000. VHCB in Hinesburg came in at 850,000. That was listed. They listed their total cost or request at 2,200,000.0. Springfield Housing Authority came back at 1,200,000.0 instead of 1.5. There are a few sort of rounding adjustments. Town of Berlin, the Riverton Village community wastewater, we requested 1.6, almost 1.7, and we got almost 1.1. And the Springfield hospital boilers requested 1.3, got a million. The Linden Institute Early Childhood Education and Workforce Program, we requested 3 quarters of 1,000,000 and that came back at 555,000. And then everything else was funded as requested. Some of these projects had been submitted for 2025 and we were told we could resubmit, we did ask applicants to go back and look carefully at their costs and make adjustments if they needed to so that we weren't sort of doubly shorting them. So I think some of those adjustments may in the end come out in the wash. Think folks will be okay. One of the things that we come up against in our office, because we are in all the offices, we're very interested in supporting the organizations, the applicants to pulling down the funds, going through the application process, working on through all of the details that Katie and Rebecca described. And so there really is a balance that we try and strike between finding that experience and the capacity that Katie spoke about, but also trying to get funding to parts of the state or to organizations that maybe don't have as much experience but desperately need the money. So Randville Fire Department does not have a lot of experience in pulling down federal grants. They are all volunteer, very small operation in desperate need of a fire station that has running water, for example. So, and similarly their new fire station redevelopment, we anticipate that our office is going to need to work fairly closely with them to get them across the finish line.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I have a question from Rob Kascenska here.

[Rep. John Kascenska (Member)]: Hi, John Kascenska from Burke. I appreciate you using the example of like our volunteer groups that are out there, fire and others here and EMS here as well. And I know one of the things they struggle with in addition to infrastructure to kind of house their equipment and them and other things they're providing there. But we have an aging fleet of emergency vehicles, and they really struggle with the price of what those things cost today. Know, some years ago they used to be in the high 5 figures, now they're in the high six figures and more, and as much as they try to raise money here to continue to repair things, there is kind of a point in time here. As you're in the future looking at nominations for projects here in the coming year plus here, there other opportunities for us to take advantage of that for Vermont to help with that to some degree?

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: Yeah, and I would say that there are some good funding programs for equipment through FEMA and our offices also work closely with EMS services around the state and fire departments to try to access the assistance for fire fighters grant AFG or the SAFE grant. So that's on a little bit of a different cycle. And again, the requirements are so narrow that we have to be very careful about, like, for example, we can't fund anything medical through some of the sub accounts, right? Because we don't actually have the HHS sub account. So it's tricky with the CDS line of funding. And particularly for equipment, I think AFG is a better bet and we've had some success in pulling down funds as a state through that source. But you raise an interesting point and panel is a great example where their building is so old that they can't actually fit new equipment in their garage. So, they're in a pickle and they also use their fire station for community groups, for emergency evacuation sites for their school. I think the seniors meet there on a weekly basis. So it really is about upgrading to twentieth century, ideally twenty first century, but in some cases twentieth century standards to make sure that we can house that equipment.

[Rep. John Kascenska (Member)]: That gets so challenging for sure if they're trying to replace like a ladder truck because that's what they need next. I'm not just talking, I live here just across the state because you just can't fit something that's contemporary today into what they might have. I mean, lot of the rural areas have been pretty successful in replacing things like radios, maybe air tanks and those kinds of things, but so larger items, and I think they've tried to apply for some of those types of grants. It's hard to be as competitive with what they know how to put together here. So they do need some assistance, I think, with just how to put together a competitive

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: I would just add to that, that in addition, as Jessica mentioned, the AFGE grant cycle is one where our office spends a lot of time sending that information out to all the tiny towns and And volunteer while we can't do direct grant assistance because we're not permitted to, what we can do is ask for technical assistance from So the if a town needs some help, we can at least serve as a liaison for help them get the answers they need from the agency so that when they're trying to figure out how to build the most competitive grant possible, we can at least provide some guidance and connecting to resources and also some national organizations and groups that help with this type of thing. So and we're always we're almost always happy to provide letters of support as well. So if one of those entities wants a letter of support from any one of us, but really all three of us, our bosses do a lot of delegation letters of support. We're always happy to do that, folks.

[Rep. John Kascenska (Member)]: Thanks so much.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Thanks. Wayne, one more question here. Will there be

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: any end date, like, you know, our we have our money have to be either obligated or spent by a certain duration of time, whether they need those kind of strengths attached to any of this money.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: Yeah, so most agencies allow three years for the funding to be spent. Now, as Rebecca articulated with this fiscal year that we are halfway through, and we know that it's going to be a few months until those entities even get access to their money, they're going to be essentially a year in before they can even start drawing down that funding. So three years is it may sound like a long time, but in some ways, it's sort of the bare minimum to actually get the money in the door. Extensions? It depends on the agency. It depends on the secretary of a particular department, but extensions can be applied for. And we would be happy to support them when it is effective for us to do so.

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: Any of the reductions in funding for some of these projects jeopardize the project at all? That's the question probably for For me? For Jessica.

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: Yeah, Jessica.

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: I'm sorry. I missed the question.

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: A few of your dollar asks, you didn't get all the money. Does any of those, any of the people receiving that applied for the money, will that jeopardize any of the projects that are on the line?

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: That's a great question. Not that we've heard so far. And I think because they're right now in the process of working with the agency to apply for those grants, I think we'll know more in the coming months, but it's something that we're watching carefully. We have had in the past situation where something changed. There was an organization that was looking to purchase a house for transitional housing and recovery housing, and that real estate deal fell through. And so we were able to work with the committee to go through to make sure that their grant could be used to purchase any property, not that specific property that they already thought they had the deal. So sometimes there is room to work on that after the award has been made.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Rebecca, did you want to respond to that?

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: I just wanted to add that for many of these projects, the funding that they get through congressionally directed spending is really just a part of the entire funding stack. I would say all of the housing projects are that way. This is an important but small part of a very large funding stack. And I think for any construction project, that's true. Really, almost for all the projects that I can think of, it's a small part. And from a number of these grants, particularly the Save America's Treasures grants, that's a 50% match. So most organizations are also doing a lot of other fundraising and looking for other grants and other sources of funding coming to you.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Mike and then Marty, and we'll finish the tip.

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: Thank you. Thanks all of you for coming here. The need for housing is certainly acute and meeting today with Julie Cunningham from Family First in Brattleboro, the need for housing for the disabled is even more acute. Is that something you can specify in the directive, or is it just you would apply for housing and hope that that could be part of it? And would that specific yes.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: There can be specific asks that meet certain needs and needs of particular groups. And that's a place too where we would look. If someone wanted to apply for congressionally directed spending to our office, and maybe they applied for funding that they presumed would be under HUD, we can also look at the administration for individuals with disabilities and see if maybe there is money that we could use instead. Maybe we don't have a project for that. Would we be looking to fund in that account? So maybe that would be just as good a fit, or maybe we can do part of the project through that. Maybe there's fit ups that are specifically needed. So we are happy to be as sort of flexible and creative as possible. But there is nothing I can think of that would include specifically housing for individuals with disabilities. Yeah.

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: And just to add, a couple years ago, Senator Welch was able to nominate, a project in Middlebury. I think it's called the Yellow House, which is, housing for young adults with developmental disabilities. And so that was successful, and believe they pulled down the money.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: It's really important part of our community. That's great. Yeah. Thanks. Marty, and then, So just a process question. If we need a

[Rep. Martha "Marty" Feltus (Vice Chair)]: new fire station in my town, does the select board send a letter to you three offices and say, gee, we would like

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: to apply some compression or spending and we want to build a fire station and we can wait three or four or five years and we think it's going to cost $2,000,000 Is it something as simple as that? And then you would go back to them and say, well, there might be an opportunity here and there, but give me more details. Is that how the process works? Should they talk to you directly? So always people can talk

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: to us directly. Happy to have that happen. Each of our offices, as Rebecca mentioned, we are a little bit ahead of the process here. And so we are already thinking about fiscal year twenty twenty seven because it's actually not that far away. So I think our office I don't want to speak for everybody. Can I speak for everybody? I think we're all looking at releasing our applications for fiscal year twenty twenty seven soon. And once those applications are open, there'll be a press release. We'll put it out through our Bernie buzz. So hopefully, word will spread that the applications are open. At that time, everyone is welcome to apply. If folks have questions about the application process, they can call us. We're happy to talk folks through it. And then once you get the application, we'll work with you to say, oh, we think maybe there's this, or did you know there's a match? Do you know you're probably not going to get this money for two or three years? And it's a really collaborative process at that point once we've received the application, But would really encourage folks to fill out the application, submit that application. And it's also perfectly fine to submit to all three offices. We talk to each other. We try to divide and conquer so we can maximize the amount of money coming into Vermont. And at that point, we're happy to work with the town.

[Rep. Martha "Marty" Feltus (Vice Chair)]: The initial comment should just be directly to your offices that we're interested in, and you'll put them on the mailing list for the shop.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: Yeah. Absolutely. And hopefully, they'll get our announcement. And then one of the things our office has done in the past few years as well is I and our legislative director has led a webinar for anyone who's interested in this process because it does feel kind of convoluted and complicated if you've never done it before. So we just try to show everyone that we're real human beings. We're monikers who are happy to talk to you about how it works and make it a little less scary.

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: Yeah. So just to add, so we have not yet received instructions from the appropriations subcommittees, but we will probably be opening our portals for applications before we get those instructions. So our office is hoping to open the portal next week and have the portal open March 2 to April 2. Because if we don't open it before we get instructions, we don't have time to get the applications and process everything. And when people apply so in your example, for a fire station, the application is quite simple. The hardest part is going to be this dropdown menu, which says, which account do you want to apply for? And they're going be like, we have no idea. So at that point, they can just say, either or I don't know. And they can call us and ask us which account is most appropriate. And I can tell you right off the bat, it's going to be the USDA community facilities. That's, I think, probably the only account that would fund that. And it's highly competitive. But for anything. I just use the clarification.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: It's very simple. Yeah.

[Jessica Nordhaus (State Director, U.S. Representative Becca Balint)]: And we've had on the House side, we've had very, very quick turnaround over the last several years. Like two years ago, we had eight days between when the guidance was issued and when our applications had to be submitted, our lists, which is quite a bit more complicated what we have to submit than what we're asking Vermonters to submit to us. So, we keep our applications on our websites very simple. There are a couple of different ways people come to us. Sometimes they're calling our office and we're connecting you with our person who's running this project and he spends a lot of time talking to individual applicants. We are also hoping to host a webinar in the March. So another opportunity for people to get some information about it. We have a running list of people that have called us or emailed us over the years asking for assistance with grants. And so we've already put that out to that list. We've let them know that we believe that the time is coming soon. And we've distributed the FY26 guidance saying, we think this will be similar. Take a look at the accounts that are eligible and make your plans accordingly because we may have very, very little time to get those in.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Great. Thank you. And then we'll finish with Tiff, who I think is giving us a little pivot in your question. Oh, yeah. This is a bit of

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: a pivot. Although I was just thinking maybe this committee could apply.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I know, know, some

[Rep. Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: many needs. But this is about the Rural Health Transformation Grant, which is an amazing opportunity to strengthen the system.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: I

[Rep. Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: don't think that there is a hard and fast determination about whether Chittenden County can benefit from any of that money. But there is some doubt that has been expressed that it would be eligible. And in conversations with different people over the last several weeks, I guess the question has come to my mind is, have you been in conversation with either the governor or CMS in DC about being able to cover the whole state with this grant and this question of eligibility as it relates to FQHCs and mental health providers that happen to be in Chittenden County.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Have you heard of this? Oh, yes. We've heard you

[Rep. Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: or you're not even knowing already.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So I think you're good. You can always start with that. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: I can take, I think, first crack at this. Before I was Senator Sanders' state director, I was his health policy director. So he keeps me working on this stuff quite a bit, which I love. So I'll share sort of what I can publicly, and then happy to have a private conversation as well, if that's effective. So as we understand so I will say that, in general, the way that the congressional delegation and the governor's office have partnered I worked for Senator Sanders for thirteen years. I worked for Peter Welch for two years before that. It varies. There's different levels of collaboration, throughout the time. Our offices were not particularly involved in the application for the Rural Health Transformation Fund. We are obviously thrilled that Vermont received the amount of funding that it did. We see that as a great sign. Obviously, it's a huge need. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that while January is wonderful news compared to what it could have been, it is going to be, frankly, a drop in the bucket compared to the cuts that we are going to face, from Medicaid and other programs that were cut in HR one. So I know there's a lot of excitement and enthusiasm about this funding, and I want to be enthusiastic too. That being said, and I know all of you probably am preaching to the choir here because as appropriators, you know the hole that we are trying to fill with this very small pot of money. So I just need to sort of say that out loud. But to your specific question, I would say that the information that we have through the Notice of Funding Opportunity and from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services do not specifically eliminate Chittenden County from being eligible for funding through the definition of rural. The initial application that was submitted by the state of Vermont does not enable all of Chittenden County to be served by this funding. That being said, the application which was approved is the jumping off point. And it's from here that the state works with CMS to determine the specifics around how this funding will be used and who will benefit. I would say that I do not at this point, we do not have any information that CMS would be opposed to a definition that includes Chittenden County. We certainly recognize the need that our health centers, our mental health treatment facilities, our designated agencies face. We also know that regionalization is a big part of what's being looked at in rural health transformation. And for regionalization to be effective, we need to look at where some of the resources are that are going to need to be regionalized and where some of the expertise is that may need to go out to other places. And even if that resource is located in Chittenden County, it's going to be serving people outside of Chittenden County. And as we understand it from the state at this point, when they talk about the definition of rural, they're specifically talking about where the patient lives, as they've articulated to us, not where the facility is. And I would presume, and I'm a little bit editorializing here, that it would be very difficult for a facility to know necessarily exactly where all their patients are and how that would work in terms of drawing down funding. So I would just say that we're very much aware of this. We're happy to work with CMS if that is where the issues are. But really believe that there is an opportunity here to make sure that this funding is used where it's needed. And to the extent that our offices can be helpful in that, we're happy to do so. Thank you. Well, you'll all be receiving letters from

[Rep. Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: Junet County delegates momentarily. So I just thank you for that. And we may request an offline conversation. Happy to be back.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Well, I really want to thank you all for coming here. It's great to establish a connection with our committee and all of you. I'm on

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: the Joint Fiscal Committee, and we see you there.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: But it's really nice to have us be part of your connection. So thank you so much. And we know how to reach you. Please be in touch with us, too, if there are things that either we can be helpful with or you think that we ought to know about that in life.

[Katie Van Haste (State Director, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders)]: And I would just say, if I may, I say this to every committee we walk into, your constituents are our constituents, and our constituents are your constituents. So if there's anything that you hear from a constituent about that you need help with and you're not sure where to go with it, please reach out

[Rebecca Ellis (State Director, U.S. Senator Peter Welch)]: to us. We're happy to help.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Thank you all so much. Appreciate it. Committee, we have Agency of Ed, but we need to take a five minute break. If you all don't mind, the notification is not. That all seems very happy. Okay. So maybe we