Meetings
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[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Morning, this is the House Appropriations Committee. It's Wednesday, February 2026, 09:50 a. M, and we are delighted to have with us our NCSL rep counter. So welcome. It's great to have you here.
[James (Joint Fiscal Office staff)]: Welcome to Vermont. If you
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: want to introduce yourself and let's have a conversation.
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee. I really appreciate you having me here today. I am Erica McKellar. I'm with the National Conference of State Legislatures, and I see a lot of familiar faces here today. So I think you all are probably familiar with NCSL, but we are a bipartisan organization dedicated to strengthening the legislative institution and help share ideas across the states through research and bringing you all together at meetings, training programs, and some advocacy in DC. And I just wanted to come here today and just kind of thank you for your support of NCSL, talk a little bit about some of our budget resources. I'm in our fiscal affairs program at our Denver office. So I just thought I'd tell you a little bit about some of the upcoming things that we have and some of our most recent publications and resources, and then answer any questions that you might have or take any questions back to some of our other policy experts. So one tool that I think you all might be interested in is we know that budgets are tightening and revenues are starting to slow down and states are going to be having to make some, close some budget shortfalls. And so we have a new state actions to close budget shortfalls database, where you can go and you can sort by state or by category and see what proposals are out there to raise revenues, to cut spending, to use rainy day funds, and can also serve by policy areas. So it's a newer tool, we're just starting to see policy proposals come out. But I anticipate that hopefully that will be a great tool over the next couple
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: of years. You Name it again state actions to
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: To close budget shortfalls. I can put together a list and kind of send that to us at Autumn if that would be helpful.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: That would be great. Yeah, thanks. Is there
[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: a link on your website? You can come to the website.
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: There is a link on the website. But I also know that sometimes our website can be a little difficult to navigate, so I'm happy to share those resources.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: That'd great if you send the link out, thanks. We
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: also have a new state budget update report coming out a a couple of times a year. We survey legislative fiscal offices to just sort of get a handle on how state revenues are performing, what some of the top fiscal issues are. So that should be live this week. We didn't get responses from every state, but I think it's a good look on how revenues are performing across the country and kind of a comparative look at what some of the top issues are in the states.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: What are you finding in that one?
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: For now, it's relative to the latest revenue estimate in the states. And for now, most states seem to be on target to meet their revenue estimates, which I think doesn't mean that there aren't going to be some hard choices, because I think in the past couple of years, we've seen a lot of more states expecting to exceed those revenue estimates. But I also think revenue estimating was fairly cautious in the past year or two. So yeah, so I think what we're seeing is the sky isn't falling yet, but there are probably But
[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: there are
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: gray clouds threatening. Yeah. Okay. That's the overall takeaway. Okay.
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: We also surveyed states on their fiscal notes and fiscal note processes. So that report will be coming out soon as well and what's included and if folks do dynamic scoring. Reptire, you're also very familiar with our budget working group, which you are the co chair of. But we have three publications available that that group has produced. It's a group of legislators and legislative staff that come together to work on issues around long term budget sustainability. And there is a report on data management, policy around state owned facilities and deferred maintenance, and then one time versus recurring revenues and expenditures. And those are all available now. So I actually presented last
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: year in Washington one time versus one year. It was very helpful putting together that presentation. It's so interesting when you see other states, first of they figure out revenue, that's another piece, but how they do the one time versus recurring, which is very interesting. And the other thing that you did on the state facilities, many of the other states own the physical plant at their state universities. So imagine if we owned all the property at UVM and all the Vermont state universities. That's what they do. And I came out of that saying, whoo! Good morning and thanks for coming.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: We are in some ways in unprecedented times and especially with budgeting and policies, the White House that really seem to be targeting or specifying in some cases where funding can go and can't go. The Mont was just turned down recently, requested FEMA aid for flood damage. We're also seeing targets where, for instance, it seems like ice is being deployed primarily to blue states, even though the case could be made that, for instance, Texas and Florida are states where there are millions supposedly of undocumented workers and 100,000 in Minnesota, there was a full force of nation. I know you're a bipartisan organization, but are you tracking how budgeting is happening or how some of these actions are being? What I would suggest not even handed, to the states.
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: Madam Chair, Bennington? Yes, so I'm not, I can't speak to the ice issue, but in terms of the federal changes that are coming down, we are working on tracking how states are responding to that. In terms of the FEMA piece, there will be a webinar on February 27 that will look at how states are spending their rural health transformation funds and some of the rules around that, the FEMA issue, as well as some of the more immediate changes to Medicaid and SNAP that will hopefully be helpful. And then our Medicaid teams put together a series of webinars around that and a lot of documents that I hope will be helpful. So a lot of that is being driven by our federal team and some of my other colleagues that work more specifically on these policy areas. But happy to kind of follow-up on each of those individual areas, if that would be helpful. Other things you want to
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: tell us about what you're
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: Mostly, I just I did want to cover that federal piece, because I know that is a really important part right now of how you all are thinking about budgeting. There are a lot of changes coming down around that. So we are trying to get ahead of that and trying to track how states are responding. I think right now there's a lot of proposals out there and not a lot of concrete actions as legislatures have just kind of gotten into session, but I anticipate that there will be more coming out the pipeline on that soon. And then the last thing I just want to mention is hopefully you all have access and logins to our website. If not, let me know. I'm happy to help you get set up with that. Because we do have some newsletters that might be helpful. We do a budget and tax newsletter that comes out every Friday. Happy to help you all get set up with checking some of those. There are also different policy areas that you might be interested in that do different newsletters. So it's an easy way to kind of stay up to date on what NCSL is doing in different policy areas and what other states may
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: be doing as well. There might be some things in your portfolios, I think there may be a transportation one, for example, certainly an education one. I check out the budget one, can't remember what all the other ones are, banking, finance, I'm sure there's a lot of human services ones too, I just don't remember what they all are. Shortfalls. Shortfalls now. Would be
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: remiss if I did not say that legislative summit, our big annual meeting this year will be in Chicago, July. So slightly earlier than it has been historically.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: That's right. That's great. And I know we've used you, JFO has used you certainly, for saying, well, what are other states doing about this? So I don't know, James, would you ask in CSL about five and Section eight?
[James (Joint Fiscal Office staff)]: Yes. Yeah.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: That's one of the things that's on our mind as we're finishing up our Budget Adjustment Act is what's happening with those and what other states are doing if anything. So I know they've been in touch with you about that. But it's really helpful when we want to see what other people are doing. It's a huge benefit to find out. In so many cases, when I come back from the smaller things, I think,
[James (Joint Fiscal Office staff)]: oh, we're doing
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: some things really pretty well right here. Other states, the governor may have his or her own revenue forecast and the legislature has theirs, and they don't have a consensus. So they're building a budget on this, and the governor has a budget built on this, and I don't know how that works. I can't imagine. I feel like we have some good systems sort of buttoned up on how we do things for accountability, ensuring that we have a balanced budget. So are there other things that you've done other research stuff for people. What are some of the things that you all have done, maybe for other states, not necessarily for us?
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: I believe that several NCSL folks have testified recently in different Vermont committees. I think there were some testimony around AI. I think there's some testimony Friday around some transparency oversight. Government accountability, can I say? Yeah, so I think there have been quite a few, as you saw, colleagues of mine who have testified before various interviews this year so far. AI has been a big topic.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yes. Know data centers were a big topic when we were together in DC in the fall. Not so much for us, other states are wrestling with cost and energy usage and who pays.
[James (Joint Fiscal Office staff)]: Great. Any other thoughts for Erica at this point? Dave?
[David Yacovone (Member)]: Just two questions, if I may. Tax flight, do you have any research that you could send us on states that may have increased tax rates on the so called 1%, and whether people flew away from that state, call it tax flight. I haven't been able to find any yet, but there hasn't been that many either, three or four that I found. Second question, any research or information on states that have invested in home and community based services and achieved a reduction in Medicaid bed days? I know several have been leaders in that area, at least a long time ago, but I don't know how that's working.
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: Thank you. Absolutely, I will take that back to our tax policy expert. I should have mentioned, I work on the budget side for our fiscal program, but we also have a tax expert who's been doing a lot with property taxes and probably can answer your question on budget. So And tax conformity, which I know has been top of mind for states.
[James (Joint Fiscal Office staff)]: To fill in on what David asked, Andy just mentioned property taxes, I think he's talking about income taxes. California's got a referendum at the moment that's looking to really tax super high wealthy people. And there is discussion about tax blight there, business blight. But property taxes is another issue. If we've had pretty high property taxes here, they don't seem to be going down. Anything you have on property tax states is one. Now there's a bunch of high property tax states. Guess what do they call that? The federal program that does the deductibility of free property taxes. SARAH program. SARAH. SARAH. SARAH. SARAH. SARAH. Think we might get it to sneak into that. I'd just like to know where that stands.
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: Madam Chair, what would work for you if I I'll send these questions to our experts and then have them respond to Autumn's
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah, sure. Yeah, that would be great. That would be great. Always lots of questions in here. Wayne?
[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: Just on the link to the database that you were talking about, I'm on your web page. It's not self apparent where that is. Is there any clue? Yes. Resources and tools for legislators and staff, but I don't see a topic pop up there.
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: I will be sure to send that to you. I do know that our website can be challenging to search, we are working on a tool to make that easier. So stay tuned for that. At any time you have a question or you're looking for resources on something, feel free to reach out to me, and I'm happy to work with my colleagues to get that info to you directly, because I do know that can be a challenge.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Erica sent all the legislative, all of us, an email that she was going to be here. So your email and all about your contact info is in that email as well. I do also have magnets with that information, if you'd like.
[James (Joint Fiscal Office staff)]: Magnets? Put one on our website.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I do
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: have regular business cards too, but
[David Yacovone (Member)]: I know
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: you have little plastic bags of things there.
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: I do. I have pens and glasses wipes if anybody is
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: interested in some of the great.
[David Yacovone (Member)]: Glad it came today.
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So the unless there are other questions, we'll go off live and we can pass out these things. Sorry. Any other questions for anybody? Always glad to see you, Erica. Thank you so much. Thank you
[Erica McKellar (National Conference of State Legislatures)]: very much for being here. All
[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: right. So let's