Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Good morning. This is the House Appropriations Committee. It is Friday the thirteenth, 02/13/2026. A good day to be here. It's 10:00 in the morning, and we're continuing our tour of the FY27 Governor's proposed budget. And today is ANR Day, Agency of Natural Resources. So we're delighted to have you all here, you and your colleagues will be joining eventually. So if you want to introduce yourselves for the record and we can take it away. And I think there is some screen sharing that's going to be happening. Is that? That is correct. And I think there

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: you go.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Yes. So good morning for the record. I'm Julie Moore. I'm the secretary of Natural Resources, and I'm joined by my colleague, Steve Gomez, who is the agency's chief financial officer, as well as Charles Martin, who's the deputy secretary. And the DEC leadership team is here, too, but we'll let them introduce themselves when they come up. So come up before I jump into our presentation, recognizing time is limited this morning, I have hidden a bunch of the slides that are actually in the deck that we sent over to you. So I'm going to touch on the wave tops. But if there's something seen in the packet we sent forward, please don't hesitate to ask. We're happy to speak to any of them. Thank you.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: You're welcome.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: So I thought I'd start with just a quick agency overview, review our mission and organizational structure, and then dig into some of the both the pieces we traditionally present as well as some of the additional information that was requested, Chair Shaiba, you and JFO. Thank you. So ANR is a fairly large department, at least from my perspective. Our annual or FY27 proposed budget is just shy of $300,000,000 The lion's share of that is within the Department of Environmental Conservation, and that it's really a reflection of the significant amount of pass through funding that comes through DEC, specifically through our state revolving fund program. And those state revolving fund dollars have really been expanded under the bipartisan infrastructure involved. And they will speak to that in more detail. But I think that the key points from my perspective is about half of our overall budget is passed through to municipalities, nonprofits, partner organizations and businesses in the form of grants, loans and contracts. We do about $40,000,000 in contracting each year, more than half of which is with Vermont businesses. We issue upwards of $60,000,000 a year in grants, most of which goes to Vermont municipalities and also a significant volume of loans, again, largely through our state revolving fund. About a third of our budget is for salaries and benefits. And then that remaining piece, about 16%, is for sort of the operations of the agency, fuel, vehicles, computers, etcetera. I think this is always an interesting way to look at our budget, and I may have shared this same graphic when we were in budget adjustment. But trying to pull out sort of these one time federal initiatives, ARPA and the bipartisan infrastructure law in particular, and show the dramatic effect they've had on our budget over the last several years. The fact that we are now by peak bipartisan infrastructure law and sort of on that anticipated backside. So our budget is about $40,000,000 less than it was in FY 'twenty six. But that is all an anticipated decrease in federal funds. Correct. And are you You have some time. And we

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: can talk about ARPA maybe a little bit, because I know your agency is the one that has the most remaining ARPA funds. So we'd like to chat about that at some point. But are you sort of planning, are there going to be staff changes as a result of that? You can just relocate them to other areas of your work A or some of

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: little of column A, a little of column B. We did add about 50 limited service positions between ARPA and bipartisan infrastructure law. We are in the process of working with finance and management to transfer nine of those ARPA positions into the bipartisan infrastructure law because we do have a longer tail on that funding. They were doing related work around water infrastructure. We have another, I think, 10 positions that are slated to wind down by the end of the year and are actively working with those employees to look for permanent roles that they could take permanent vacancies they might be able to fill within the agents. The challenge is moving them off of their existing work now leaves us with a gap. And it's really hard to convince somebody to take a ten month job and even harder to get them up to speed in a way that's meaningful. It's a delicate balance and one that we are actively managing. Thanks. So as I noted, about a $300,000,000 governor's recommend for fiscal 'twenty seven, 12% decrease, but that's pretty much all in those federal funds. I did put together a list of the other significant budget changes. Salaries and benefits have increased by about $6,500,000 ANR has six eighty plus or minus full time employees, as well as we add a significant cadre of summer staff, bringing our total well over 1,000 when we're operating the parks. There are increases in internal service funds. We did see a significant decrease in our insurance that also came with a commensurate decrease in our general fund appropriation. And this largely relates to property insurance at parks and some significant increases following the 'twenty three floods. The new ADS billing model resulted in an increase of about $1,450,000 across the agency. I will talk a little bit more about federal funding, I think, in a couple of slides. We are decreasing our recommended drop in the Petroleum Cleanup Fund. This is being done in an order to sort of better match our revenues with our outlays and maintain solvency. And then there are a couple of smaller decreases in the air quality division that DEC will speak to as well.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: It will. Okay. So the ABS billing, how is that changing for you? What is happening? You have to pay more earlier or what's? We have to pay more.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: We have

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: to pay more.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Correct. So there's a new billing model. And under that, our costs for core enterprise services increased by this 1,450,000.00. There's about $250,000 of offsetting decreases in what have been called, I think, timesheet billing. So that 1.45 is the gross figure as opposed to the net figure. We also received about a half $1,000,000 of additional general fund through the budgeting process to help buy down that. But there was about $600,000 worth of cuts we ended up needing to make in order to have the revenue or the financing funding available to pay for that ADS increase.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Go ahead, Margaret.

[Rep. Martha 'Marty' Feltus (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, I think maybe I can, and you can verify it as well. I think part of that has to do with on the core enterprise services, ADS has, spread out costs, but they've also recognized that certain users are more intensive users than other users. So, the example they always give is Department of Corrections person doesn't use all of those core services very much. Whereas somebody in ASR probably would use a lot of modeling and a lot of data sheets and a lot of all of that sort of stuff, which is more intensive. And so they've tried to balance out the intensity of use of individuals rather than just taking the amount and dividing that by 8,000 employees.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: That is our understanding.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Great, thank you.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: So I will shift now and jump into the secretary's office budget, unless there are other agency level questions. So the team in the secretary's office is made up of 43 positions. They largely are in our office of policy and planning, our office of legal services and general counsel, and then the secretary's office. And then Steve and our chief operating officer, Kim Greenwood, have a small financial and administrative services team that in particular help steward our five regional offices around the state. In terms of federal funds that I thought would be of interest to this committee, first, a few comments on our Climate Pollution Reduction Grant. This was a grant we received as part under the Inflation Reduction Act. It was a $3,000,000 noncompetitive planning grant. We have relied heavily on these resources in preparing the 2025 Climate Action Plan required by the Global Warming Solutions Act, among other things. We are also using these resources to improve our greenhouse gas inventory, which is the basis for demonstrating compliance with the Global Warming Solutions Act. To date, we've expended about $1,400,000 of that grant. We have another 1.1 encumbered and anticipate being able to fully utilize it. I would note we are front loading the federal funded components of this work just out of concern or an abundance of caution that the resources might be removed at a point in time. So you

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: haven't heard anything at this point?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: No, there were companion implementation grants that were issued under the IRA from EPA. The implementation grants were all pulled back, but the planning grants have been untouched. So you have another half 1,000,000 to

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: obligate, spend whatever that you've had plans for, but haven't done that work yet? Correct. Had you also been given some implementation grant funding that you now aren't getting?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: No, we had submitted application. We weren't successful with our direct application. We were part of a collaborative New England wide collaborative looking at some pumps, mostly in the education and outreach. Like what is it? What kind of information do property owners need to be convinced to be interested in taking advantage of a heat pump? So that program never, never came to fruition, but it didn't have big dollar figures associated with it. Okay. And as we go along,

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: and maybe the other agencies departments within your agency can tell us about federal funds if there's been issues.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Yeah, in general, they've been fairly modest, but folks I believe have that in their presentations. Great, thank you. In terms of prior fiscal year appropriations, flagging this one, which was related to the Climate Superfund Act, there was a onetime appropriation of $300,000 provided to the agency. As you may recall, we were back here last year following the status report we prepared indicating we really needed additional resources beyond that 300,000. We did not receive any additional resources. So we've been holding a bit of this money in reserve, knowing that the most significant work or significant new work will take place once the treasurer's office completes the tasks they are assigned with, would just reflect, however, this continues to place significant strain, particularly on our Office of General Counsel, as there is multiple ongoing litigation around this bill. While it's being led through the attorney general's office, we are obviously a mandatory participant and don't have dedicated capacity to support. So is there actually action or activity happening on that, on the lawsuits? Is there context? We are briefing them as we speak. So there's a lawsuit filed by the American Petroleum Institute and US Chamber of Commerce, a separate lawsuit by the Department of Justice and EPA, and a third lawsuit by 24 Republican states attorney general that have all been filed against Vermont. They're moving on relatively similar time frames, but don't all raise the same set of issues. Right.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Of

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: course. Yeah, Wayne? I see you have an attorney, you stress on your attorneys at the AG's office. The AG's then end, but you pay for the AG's. No money flows up from the AG's office. For any attorneys, right?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: No money flows from the No, our attorneys aren't actually assistant AGs. They are direct agency employees. So we're a little different model, but the AG does not contribute to the salaries of ours. I thought some of your attorneys were deputy AGs until now.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Not in every agency.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: So I know mine, Fish and Wildlife, was at one point. They are now an agency staff member. This

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: is just a way to sort of give you a sense of how the secretary's office breaks down. Legal services is the most significant component of our budget, the team of lawyers. And these are the lawyers in each of the agencies departments, as well as the litigation and enforcement team that's really centralized in the secretary's office. That brown block is the pilot payments we make for the public lands that we hold in communities across the state. Our Finance and Administration division comes next, the Climate Action Office, and then the remaining budget is split between the Office of Policy and Planning, our Civil Rights and Environmental Justice Unit, the team, my direct team in the secretary's office, and then the regional office expenses that we manage on behalf of the agency.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: So this is just your office, which is why

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: we see all the legal stuff there. Correct. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Tom.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Just a further explanation on the climate I'm sorry, on the civil rights and environmental justice programs. And just how does that what exact what element or what facet are we talking about here?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: So as you may recall, Act 154 of 2022 established Vermont's environmental justice law. It created a small team at ANR and made us responsible for supporting all of what are termed covered agencies by that bill. So there's 10 agencies of state government that have been identified as having work that intersects with environmental justice issues. And we have a team of three headed by Carla Remundi that is leading that effort. So actually, just later today, I believe one of the major deliverables under that bill will go live, which is the environmental benefits spending guidance. We've been working with agencies across the enterprise to identify funding programs they have that have an intersection with environmental justice and then look at the geographic distribution of those expenditures. There's also been work done by that team with the Interagency Advisory Council to begin developing an environmental justice mapping tool. We have a contractor in place and that work should begin shortly. And that will ultimately, those two pieces, I think, taken together, will allow us to look at cumulative burdens, which is one of the other pieces of the law. We'd be happy to come in and either meet with you directly or brief the committee on the work of that unit. I think it's a really impressive body of work and a significant undertaking.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: And just for sure, can you just give me an idea of what this means for Vermonters?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: So ultimately, it means we are looking at ways to ensure that there is good geographic distribution of the, in particular, the grant funding that we push out each year, recognizing that it's a little bit challenged by the fact that we need good applications in order to make awards, but trying to make sure we aren't sort of missing areas of the state with how those grant dollars are going out. And then also looking at through the cumulative burdens analysis to see if there are ways to look across multiple agency permitting programs and if there are particular concentrations. That work is just getting underway, so it's a little harder to speak to. But the mapping tool will provide the foundation for that, looking where environmental burdens currently exist and how they're distributed around the state.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Okay, yeah, no, I would love a further I mean, whether it's it's probably offline because it's not specifically operations, but I would like a deeper understanding of what civil rights in this case means.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Yeah. And happy to talk about that, I mean, largely, it's getting us into compliance with the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act. ANR had implemented well in several areas and maybe not as well in other areas. So doing things like improving language access has been a key thing as well as making sure we are when we're making improvements to facilities, state parks, fishing access areas, it's being done with a broad range of accessibility in mind. But we'll

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: be happy to talk with

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: you about that work, too.

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: Thanks.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: This is just similar to what I presented at the agency level. These are really the key changes in our appropriation within the secretary's office. So a net increase in salary and wages, we do have a limited service staff attorney position that's being supported in with the majority of funds from a federal grant and then some additional general funds out of our office to help with land use transactions. The internal service funds and ADS increases. We did see a decrease in the costs of space management. And this is as we continue to look across our leases and holdings and make sure they're matching our current needs. And then finally, there was a $5,000 drive electric grant that had been being administered by our air quality division, and we did move that into the climate office as it made sense. Ultimately, the bottom line here is on the pilot payment. We did see an increase in $6,000 and that's just based on what we are projecting for acquisitions in the coming year. There will be a more significant update to pilot rates in FY '28. So there will be more to talk about in that space next year. This year, it's really just any changes related to new land acquisitions. I was sort of going through linear, I realize that's

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: what Marty found on page 36. But can you sort of back on slide 16? And what caught my eye, you sort of highlighted last year, I see that you funded the Green River Reservoir Study amendment, but Green River has been in the news recently. Yes. I wondered if you wanted to give us an update on that because that place is near and dear to many of our hearts.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Mine as well. Yeah, we were able to announce earlier this week that A and R, Morrisville Water and Light and what we refer to as the petitioner. So the NRC, Trout Unlimited and American Whitewater have reached a settlement agreement. The settlement agreement sees Morrisville Water and Light moving forward with improvements to two of the facilities under this Morrisville hydroelectric umbrella at Katie's Falls in Morrisville. Both of those are on the Lamoille River. It was always the plan that those would go first and Green River would lag, but just work hadn't started in the decade since they had we had issued our water quality permit. At the same time, we've agreed to go back and take another look at the Vermont water quality standards. Currently, the water quality standards are identical, whether it is a man made reservoir or natural lake. And Morrisville has asked some questions about the there It limits then their ability to manipulate the reservoir levels. It's complicated, and I think I'm glad we've given ourselves three years to have those conversations. But there's a commitment from the NRC, the agency in Morris Ville to really engage in that process. Morrisville is asking for slightly more ability to raise and lower. Currently, they can draw down 10 feet. I don't believe they ever do that. The new permit would limit them to 18 inches, and I think they're looking for something a little bit more, but nowhere close to 10 feet.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah. So I can still go to New Year. Correct. Essentially Everybody wants to know because they all love it for that.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: We'll resume sort of the hard conversations in 2029 or 2030 once we've gone through the water quality standards process and see what may be possible.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay, that's great. Go ahead.

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: So there's no plan to take out green with it?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Dam? No. I should have noted the study that the legislature funded and then Mooresville also contributed to actually showed that the dam is in relatively good shape. Surprisingly, I think the dam safety team would tell you good shape. They had a lot of concerns and really were pleased to see the structural integrity of that facility.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Think it was worth every penny to do that.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: It was. It gave us a level set for the conversation that would have been impossible otherwise, regardless of where we go forward. How many global fisheries? Well, are. That's part of what the water quality certificate will address. The cold water fishery. Yeah, correct. It is.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay, thank you for the update. And

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: then the last couple of slides I was just going to flip through in the secretary's office deck, Bart. Just we did provide links to, I think, the full set of reports that interest had been expressed in to and including our budget development forms. And that's the end of the presentation.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I have carry forward funds on the top line 41.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: So

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: there isn't a whole lot there to report. We did use some of our carry forwards for Pay Act. We used a little bit of it to do some modifications to our space as a result of return to office. We do have these 50 limited service positions. And unlike, I think, the health department that wanted need space to rent, we made some modifications to accommodate folks in the short term, recognizing we will fit within our existing footprint and for the long term. What's the last one? Oh, and then the other pieces related to that environmental justice mapping tool I spoke to. We ended up breaking up that contract into two pieces based on input from our advisory council, a technical piece to build the mapping tool and then a separate contract for community engagement. And so that's reflecting that we move one piece forward and the other pieces is following, but at some distance time.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Dave, did you have a question?

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Oh, okay. Wayne, did you

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: have a question?

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: Well, it's probably better for fictional because you probably just wondering if you had any notable acquisitions of property. In the province?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: We have had some notable acquisitions this summer. Actually, would encourage you to put that question to FPR. There was significant funding added to the Forest Legacy program through the, I believe, the Inflation Reduction Act. And Vermont was very successful in the first two years of that and was able to do a significant conservation project in the Bennington area. I saw that we closed on a second project in the Northfield area just within the last few days here. But I believe in total, it's a couple of thousand acres over the last two years that were conserved. That $6,000 figure going forward is more modest. Really, all of those forest legacy additional funds have been deployed at this point. But we were able to make some significant acquisitions and also we're able to secure a couple of different in holdings. So a lot of times we have state conserved lands that have a little bit of a Swiss cheese aspect to them. And so really seek those opportunities to buy those in health parcels when possible.

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: Yes,

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: correct. I turned the page and found two more carry forwards that I'm not sure we've talked about. I don't worry about the top one because it looks like the money has all been spent, but then there's an accolade to climate change cost recovery. There's Did you already mention that? Was the I've read

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: the environmental justice. Yeah, that's this piece. We're about to begin recruitment for that limited service position, but have been sort of holding back waiting for the treasurer. Okay.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah. All right. I did not connect the two, so thank you. Do we talk with you about some

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: of the ARPA stuff? You can or DEC Deputy Commissioner Neil Kamen is Okay, great.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So he'll be able to talk to

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: us about that. That's

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: great. So

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: anything else for secretary Moore at this point, John?

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: Just real quick. So on that carry forward to continuing page there, it's page 42, property matrix dataset. Can you just define that for us? Know you haven't heard about it, but

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: it is a repository of all the major emitters of carbon dioxide in the world. And so they are able to tell you that ExxonMobil is responsible for X percentage of global emissions. It's been suggested to us that that is one reputable data source that we could rely on when we have to go through the attribution calculations under the climate superfund bill and decide who gets sent a bill for how much. There is one or two other databases that the consultant, the treasurer's office has retained, which is an outfit called Industrial Economics, is looking at at this point. But that carbon majors data set is the one that is the one that well, the other ones are equally large, and it is a large one and sort of the one that's most well known, but we'll see what input we receive from those consultants about where to go.

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: I appreciate that.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Yeah. Thank you. Good morning.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Recently heard that FEMA is denied funding for some storm damage. Do

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: you remember this happening before, this kind of a denial?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: I cannot, when we met booked for capital thresholds, no.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: It seems to me, as much as anything, a good reason why our super funds are coming in evening, working in evening before. I didn't hear about vacancies. How's

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Let me stop sharing. I have something open on my machine that will help me answer those questions. So in terms of vacancies, the agency vacancy rate overall, and this is as of last week, Steve written these figures is about 8%. It varies a little bit from department to department, but it's between 79% in each of our departments. How does that translate to bodies? So it works out to be Let's see if I've got

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Is that below here, Steve?

[Steve Gomez (Chief Financial Officer, Agency of Natural Resources)]: It's about

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: 53 And it generally takes us on the order of eighty days to refill a position once it becomes vacant. That's also pretty consistent across all three departments. There are some limited vacancies in the limited service positions. That 58 number includes, I think, some of the bipartisan infrastructure law funded positions, 13 limited services. So and as I say, this is going to be a challenging next eight to ten months as we navigate trying to move those limited service staff into classified positions as they become.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Because you could keep them till through December so they could finish their work, but then the other work isn't getting done Correct.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Yeah. And at least a small number of them have been employed at A and R more than three years now, and so they would have birth rights. And so that's a complicated factor as well.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: You need the staff to help you do all your work. A lot of work to do. Great, thank you. So I think is that your presentation?

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: That is my

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: presentation. Think Steve's going to stay the

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: entire day as the through line. I am

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: Perfect. But

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: thank you for your time.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Thank you.

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: Representative Stevens, I'm happy to follow-up and find time to talk to you further about our civil rights and environmental justice work, too.

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: You may just receive the message.

[Rep. Martha 'Marty' Feltus (Vice Chair)]: Oh, fabulous. Excellent.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Thank you, Vice Secretary Boor. So we'll just invite whoever's next. Neil? Department Thank

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: you. Thank you. Good morning,

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Tracy. Good morning. Happy Friday, everybody.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Friends online and friends at

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: the table, so get yourself set up. He likes to bring all

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: of our friends.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: And then you can all introduce yourselves when you're ready.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I'll jump in because this is my first time in front of the committee. So very nice. Thank you for having me. Nasti Sinsigali, Commissioner of Department of Environmental Conservation. I have been lucky enough to be on with these great folks for about, I think it is, seven months now. So prior to that, about twenty years in the federal government. We should have

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: the other two introduce yourselves, and then

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: we will introduce ourselves because you haven't been here before. Fantastic. And so I have Deputy Commissioner Camden and then our Financial Director, Tracy Lafrance. Welcome to both of you. You. Dave, you want to Good start us

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: morning, Dave Yacovone from Morrisville. I represent the Lamoille Washington District. Welcome. Morning, Bob. I'm Spenska from Burke. I represent the Caledonia Essex District, Chinchats.

[Rep. Michael Nigro (Member)]: Mike Nigro, representing Bennington from Top. Thomas Stevens from Waterbury, representing Washington, Chittenden.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Marty Feltus from London, and I represent five other towns in the area. I'm Robin Scheu from Middlebury, representing Middlebury, and Tiff Bluemle is in the Southern South End of Arlington.

[Rep. Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: I'm Trevor Squirrell, Underhill and Jericho. Wayne Laroche, Igate Franklin, Berkshire and Rich Schuh.

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki (Member)]: Hi, I'm Mike Mrowicki, Windham Ford District of Platini Dentists.

[Rep. Eileen Dickinson (Member)]: Hi, I'm Eileen Dickinson, I represent St. Helens Town. Nice. Welcome to your new job.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Happy to be here for many different reasons. So thank you again. So in alignment with the new testimony instructions that we have received, our goal today is really to provide you with a you all have the slide deck, our original 51 slides, that we will not be going through in its entirety, given the depth of our department. Instead, we'll really try to focus on really the most significant budget drivers, including really the tapering of federal infrastructure funds and just our ongoing efforts that

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: we

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: are doing at BEC to protect Vermont's public health and natural resources. I really want to start high level and just say, before we dive in, that we really are moving forward with a budget that is just based on it. We are not a lot of ups and downs. You're going to see some big swings, but those are mainly the bipartisan infrastructure law and IIJA funds that are moving through, just to say that. So I have Tracy driving online. Thank you, Tracy. So just a quick overview, give you our mission and department structure, department budget overview, and what's new, key budget changes, federal funds, appropriation budgets, prior fiscal year appropriation update, reports and other information. So that's really the general overview of our entire packet. And we'll hit high level pieces. Please don't hesitate, given that you have the entire budget or an entire packet, to stop us at any time and ask us. We've got full presentations to do that. Thank you. Alright. So in order to hit really just to, you know, our our mission statement, to preserve, enhance, restore, and conserve Vermont's natural resources and protect human health for the benefit of this and future generations. And really, I'd like to stress that beyond regulation, the EEC really does a number of amazing things for our state. It is a wide breadth of activities, beyond just what folks think of us as regulators, or educators as well. Onto our organizational structure. So we have a total authorized position count of three fifty one folks. So we have nine different divisions that those folks reside in. We have provided you an organizational chart that breaks it out color wise by appropriations. So management and support services are really our Vermont Geological Survey, Administration and Innovation, Environmental Compliance, as well as our commissioner's office. Then air and waste, which are air quality and climate folks, and waste management and prevention folks. Then we have our office of waters, which is water investment division, watershed management, and drinking water and groundwater protection. Moving on through, so again, please stop me with any questions that you may have. So really, our budget overview slide by appropriation, vision, program give you a good breakout of our salary and benefits, operating expenses, grants, contracts, loans. Really, what you're going to see here, especially in our water investment division, is a large amount of pass funds. You're going to see a large amount of funds moving through that are federal funds, IIJA and BIL. You'll also see in our drinking water, groundwater protection division that they also had a good number of pass through funds, federal and state funds. So, again, ARPA, IIJA and Bill moved through those divisions. What about air quality, which is also 61% grants? Also see a higher number of funds, not so much the IIJ at all.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah. No. I'm wondering more what those are because I hear less about that area.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: So those would be the DIARA funds, the Diesel Emissions Reduction Act funds, also Volkswagen settlement trust. So there's

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: some

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: funds that go through there that that help folks purchase, you know, lower emission or zero emission vehicles. That's their major that's the major funding that they administer. This is smaller amount of money in support for low income Vermonters to repair their vehicles when those vehicles fail emissions.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Great. So there's a nexus between the two. Talk?

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Yeah, there was a headline this week about how the administration is basically ending or removing definitions of what makes climate change or what makes removing levels of pollution controls that have been in place for decades. And how will that affect your work here at the state level when it comes to enforcement if all of a sudden the federal rules and you're receiving money from the federal government for enforcement of certain rules, I can understand that the answer might be it's too soon to tell, but I would imagine that considering the fifteen or twenty year attempts to try to roll back these efforts to have sensible and reasonable policies, if they're beginning to end, what happens to your enforcement issues for I mean, as a yeah. Just I'll just leave it there. I don't you don't need a for instance for me. You you know what the issues are.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: You wanna take because you yeah. I think I'd come back.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: So, yes, representative, you're referencing the endangerment finding that EPA is looking to end right now. The endangerment finding is the core the fundamentally, the pillar that was put in place that directs US EPA to implement rules to control emissions from coal fired power plants and other emission sources so as to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. So that then translates into rules that EPA then has to either, you know, take off the books if they you know, presuming they're doing that as in a legal fashion or abrogate if they do that in a less than legal fashion. Up in house environment just last week or maybe earlier this week, I was speaking to them about a small provision. It's an emergency rulemaking provision that we're seeking authority from you all so that if if there is a an abrogation of a federal rule that we rely on substantively in order to protect Vermonters from the effects of whatever that rule is helping to control, that we retain that authority at the state level to implement those rules. It's a short term stopgap measure, but it is something that we have been previewing. It is a long term arc from the endangerment finding repeal to then the repeal of the clean air mercury rule, the coal fired power plant rule, all of those, and then how that would translate down. We still have rules on our books that are our rules. So going back to when I was quite a

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: bit younger, when these rules were being put into place, one of the major things was the dead lakes, the effect of air pollution from the Midwest today, and and, you know, Vermont suffered. So the cloud comes over from a different place and drops the mercury into our lakes. That in and of itself, do you do our rules prevent that? Do we need to put big fans up in the river? So Canada or something? Or is it just I'm assuming that this is all gonna be litigated anyway, but I'm just curious, like, I I would hope that there's some war planning, if you will, or scenario planning, which it sounds like it's starting to happen.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: So Vermont doesn't regulate any of those major, major sources that produce sulfur dioxide or mercury that, you know, land on our areas. So in a way, we're gonna be reliant on how other states respond to any rulemaking subsequent to the endangerment of appeal. That said, a lot of those facilities have invested already in excellent technology, right? And they run that technology, and I'm not a big you know, I'm I'm not an energy person, but I did a lot of mercury research in my younger years. You know, it's the same time frame I imagine. There's a lot that's been done, and it's one thing to unwind the rules, it's another thing entirely to unwind what's going on in the facilities. Technology like electrostatic precipitation, it's there. It's running. This administration, the federal administration will have an arc. There'll be a subsequent federal administration. As you know, litigation will transcend those timelines. So we'll see what happens. But I did want to specifically recognize the emergency rulemaking provision we're seeking in H six thirty two. It's a good thing.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: And I'm mostly interested that you're activated. So thank you.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Good questions. Okay,

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: let's move on to our

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: next So we're just giving you right here a snapshot. I always find this slide to be a great one because it gives you a snapshot of all of our divisions and gives you the dollar amounts. And you'll see, actually, Water Investment Division is that largest blue block. And that is primarily because of the funds that are moving through it from IIHA, ARPA, BIL, that we are moving out to Vermonters in communities through loans, grants, that the money is moving out the door quite quickly. And we hit that, and Deputy Commissioner Cameron will talk about the ARPA funds here, but we really hit last year's kind of our peak in terms of the amount of funds that we are moving out door.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So but this does this also include the clean water funds and the Yes. A lot of wastewater stuff too, isn't this? Yeah.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: This this this will include the state revolving loan funds, drinking water and clean water, you know, capital funded

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Right.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: And that's drawn down federal dollars. Lake Champlain Basin program federal dollars that the state draws in, IIJA, bipartisan infrastructure law.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So are you are you worried about We had this whole Lake Champlain and the EPA coming down on us however many years ago it was, and TMDL and all the things we had to do because we were going to be in charge and we didn't want them to be in charge and all those good things. Is that changing in any way under the new administration? Are we worried about how things are going to go forward?

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: So that's a great question, and I am not as worried about that as I am worried about the things representative Stevens was bringing. Okay. EPA, you know, the the all the way to the administrator, and I've heard him speak in in DC when I was there. You know, EPA will uphold all applicable laws. Right? And so we're all watching how that is playing out as it sits in The United States. We've already seen activities from the regional administrator of EPA that strongly support the work of the TMDL and that what we're doing. So I don't see them coming in and undermining or or taking apart the girders and scaffolding that that pulled back. It's a long project.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I know it's

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: The work of a generation plus Yes.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Of people. I was I've just been worried that that's going to get undermined in some way, but you're not seeing that at this point. Correct. We still have control over how we're going forward.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I could just take one more moment and preview a question I think you'll have about federal funding, generally through EPA and specifically for this. So the, house and senate appropriations when they were in play were very concordant. They were very aligned, which isn't the same for other departments of state government, I learned from my colleagues. So those bills have passed in that minibus, and the president has signed those bills. Okay. So we see basically the same amount of EPA funding. We even see a half $1,000,000 of a little bit of additional funding coming through the Lake Champlain Basin program. I think that's specific to invasive species control. But now there's steps from congress passing that budget and the president signing it Right. To it passing through OMB and making it to the EPA, then the regions, and then to us. Right. But there are still really good people in that agency doing really good work, and we have strong partnerships with them.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So at least it's going in the right direction, even if it takes a while to get to you.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Yeah. Things are less uncertain than they were six months ago. Things were very uncertain six months ago.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yes. Well, I'm glad to hear that you feel that way. That gives me some comfort.

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: Yes. TMDL phosphorus, particularly phosphorus, know it's other. But you think you're going to meet other schedules, deadlines, levels that we fear missing, that could cause ramifications coming from the EPA in terms of not getting to where we were supposed to get? So I'm gonna answer

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: that in a couple different ways. One is if you look at our progress against the timeline and you assume a linear, every year we get a certain additional increment of phosphorus reduction from WEIRD-one to

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: But my problem with that is if that's coming from model reductions as opposed to measured reductions in the field, it could be two different things, and nowhere on the line. Need to see real effects in the field in terms of less algal blooms and all the other nasty stuff that comes with it. You think we're going

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: to get there? I know we're gonna get there. Will we get there by 2020, 2036? Hopefully before the next glacier or what. We will get there. Whether we get there by 2036 is an open question. Right? There's a lot involved in that. But the state is working super hard. We have an accountability framework with EPA. We have a back and forth every year on the pace of our progress. We have open funding lines. We have partner networks. So this is a very busy committee at a different time. You wanted to hear about our progress in clean water, we have an incredible report that we've submitted to

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: the Great. You know what? We'll get you back in April. It'll be Claire Madden. Autumn, you got that?

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: It'll be Claire Madden from our department. She's fantastic.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Okay. She'll take notes so we remember because

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I won't remember. But that would be once the budget is out the door, if

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: we get a chance to do deeper dives and so forth, we'll have to come back to that. And I'll put a quick note on the federal funding for the infrastructure work, for all the great work that we do. What I have seen and what we have worked together, even when not at DEC over the last couple decades, is that across the aisle, infrastructure, clean water, those are things that do not have

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: a color attached to them.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: So when we think about the funding and moving it, that's where I have confidence that everybody is still on board with making sure that these funds get to And the we do a great job at moving the money and showing the progress with the great projects that we have. All right. We will move on to the next slide then. A number of questions. So really, again, our DEC budget overview. You'll see on this slide, like I said, it really is I want to make a note that there really are no reduction in staff is represented. There's no reduction in staff represented in our budget. So I really want to hit that so that that question can be answered. Again, we are the largest budget within Agency of Natural Resources. You'll see the decrease from $245,000,000 from last year to about $2.00 $2,000,000 for fiscal year 'twenty seven. Really, that big tapering off of IJA and by purchase and infrastructure law money is a big contributor to that. We continue to also see a reduction in, I would say, personal services category, which a lot of that is contractual budgets that we have seen year to year and really is also tied to IIJA and DIL contracts. So as a big portion of that, you will see, will come from that contract work that is no longer there, based on those funding moving out the door. Are there any more questions? To the next slides, which are our federal funds update with ARPA, I'm gonna turn it over to deputy commissioner Kannon to welcome any questions as well.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Sure. So you have seen see. I think during BAA testimony, secretary Moore made reference to a substantial increase in final encumbrances of ARPA dollars and a substantial increase in expenditures on those dollars. So we have that same slide replicated next. But Okay. Beforehand, just wanna remind the committee, over a $190,000,000 has been put out the door through partner organizations for all of the programs that you see listed on that slide. And I just would like to draw a circle around a couple of them for you. The Healthy Homes Initiatives, we've talked about that before with you all. It is a program that did not exist at all. It was a line of business that DEC never engaged at all, where we are helping low income Vermonters that have failed septic systems or failed wells to replace those. And the justification for that was that that allows people to weather the next pandemic, and that's why that work was eligible under ARPA. And we've done some amazing things helping, individual low income Vermonters, people that live in manufactured housing communities to get their infrastructure put right. And I just can't be more proud of that team and what they've done. There's a significant body of work associated with the Lake Champlain TMDL implementing the what's called the three acre stormwater permit. We have a number of lines of of work there. We help individual Vermonters that are subject to that. We help manufactured housing communities that are subject to that through a couple different contracts and some grants, And we help all school districts in Vermont that are subject to that comply. And those are seeing a huge amount of, quote, business right now. We have dozens, literally, of projects at bid.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: On the housing stuff, ACCD just announced further progress on creating a series of designs for housing that would be approved for whatever that means. Were you a part of that conversation in terms of infrastructure wastewater? How it fits in any of the categories? Were you part of that conversation and what it would take to just pick up a brochure with plans on it, ready made plans. It's a new initiative, it would be nice to see it succeed, but I know it goes more than just design

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: of a stick built itself. Let me speak to one piece, then I'm gonna turn it over to you because it's the infrastructure development is your sweet spot, right? Your your life work. Fun fact, I own a Sears kit house, 1950. Grandmother had one as well. It is such a wonderful building.

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Is

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: 1923?

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: 1915. Built so solidly. And I love that, what they're doing. And it's we are aware of it. We work with ACCV a lot. We meet them all the time. But what they're doing is a little bit disconnected from and not in

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: a bad way, but a

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: little bit disconnected from the development of it or maintenance of infrastructure municipalities, and we are strong partners in that part of it. So I don't if you wanna speak at all to that, or do you want me to?

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: You can continue. Yeah, would just agree with that one.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: You know, there's two ways that that municipalities can grow. Either that they have existing infrastructure to make sure that it's well maintained and that it's upsized, and we're helping a lot of municipalities do that. Shelburne, Virgins, Rutland, South Burlington. Those are big ones, but they come to mind because they just moved big loans very recently. But a lot of smaller communities as well, Saint Jay. So there's a lot of that work that we constantly support, and it's sort of a hand in hand between our regulatory programs, looking at how those machines are functioning and adhering to their permits so that they're not over discharging and that they're able to treat all the waste coming in. And then the funding lines to come in and help the municipalities set those facilities to right when they're reaching the end of their design life or even when they need major maintenance or capital investment. So we do a lot of that. The department also supports the development of village water and wastewater programs, so we're gonna segue right back here to ARPA. That's another program that we're pursuing where you have eight or nine villages that are going to have new wastewater capacity because of our power. That's a really complicated road to travel to get to the end goal of having that infrastructure, but we have some nice success coming blocking. So you want to add anything? Did I answer your question?

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Sure. That's I

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: love lot talking about this stuff. I'm sorry.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: We go on that for ages. Just are

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: there so when Douglas Farnam came in, I think he was in December, did he come in? I can't remember now, was December. And he gave us a chart in just green and red and yellow. Obviously, of the money that is still unspent that needs to be spent by your end is in your world. And we know it's the wastewater and these things take time. So we aren't at a place of clutching our pearls at this point.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I understood. But thought we could get at least a

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: little how you're doing, and I know he'll begin to see us probably in April because I think he has a quarterly thing due by February or early March, and so we're going get him back in to talk about where does it stand now. If you have any previews for

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: us, then. Do. Okay. I have two previews. So the first preview is this slide I already mentioned that's up. It shows the increase in expenditures and the finalization of income, which is an obligation for both your federal funds on top and your cured federal funds on top. Right? So you understand all that stuff. I have a ton of detailed situational knowledge of every project, literally. I have this

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: You need to. You need to know what project is.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: It's open on my screen in case you had specific questions, but I really would love to come back and walk through the projects with you at some point and answer those questions in detail.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Great. And so for now, I guess my question is, how confident are you feeling right now about being able to spend all the money? Yeah. I feel

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: moderately confident. I feel highly confident to spend all the money in most of the projects. But I am aware of some challenges. I don't wanna lie, and I don't wanna be, you know, Pollyanna. I am aware of some challenges in a couple of the village projects that have me nervous and that have us looking at, okay, if this becomes a problem, can we work with Doug? Can we work with AOA to see about moving some projects around? So we have, especially in that village line, have most of those projects are working really hard. If the risk becomes too high, you know where we can put some of those dollars if

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: it's too late.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Do you have sort of a mental deadline of like when the drop dead date is that you're going have to decide?

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Yes. Reason I go like this is a lot of projects are right bid right now. They're at bid right now. We're gonna see, as those bids for construction come in, what actually happens. Right? And, you know, if you get a live bid, good bid, can go forward through the construction.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So you're kind of on the cusp of some of those worrisome ones.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I'm really tightly tracking them. Example, worked with the town of Londonderry. They were facing some new scheduling concerns and worked with Doug and his team and Londonderry separately to just figure out a game plan to buy them just enough more time to get that project done. So that that should go. But I, you know, I don't wanna sit here and say the identities of projects that I feel are at risk because we're not there yet. They are working super hard. Okay.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: But when they get you back in April, we'll talk about that too.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: That would probably be good to

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: get a real detailed update.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I'd be very happy to

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: tell them.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I've done a lot of work on your behalf to know a lot Yes, for that

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: you've had to because we were all in this same type of goal of not leaving any money on the table. And you have the most complicated stuff of any other agency pretty

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: much in doing all this. And if I could speak to just one little piece that you'll see on the slide, sort of the unencumbered, unexpended, the 2.6 to 3.2 there. Those represent dollars that essentially with respect to treasury have been encumbered to us by AOA. But because there are administrative support dollars to pay the salaries for all the people that are doing all this work, We can't put them in a vision line and tie them up in a PO. So that's why you're seeing them as unencumbered. Okay,

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: great. Let us keep going because we're gonna be having one more agency. Oh, I understand.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Yeah. We can

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: talk to all of you for a long time. And

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: we need to take

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: a break after you. And

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: again, can come back and speak to any of this. So we'll go ahead. Again, key budget changes for this year. Really spoke to it. It's just for the BIL, IIJ funding, the decrease, almost $30,000,000 decrease from '26 to '27. And then, again, other one time costs of contractual decreases, about $16,000,000 as well as some other reductions in there. All right, and then keeping going. Again, some other ongoing and other operational costs, which is in your packet. Know Pretty that stuff. Yeah, pretty standard. Secretary Moore talked to the ADS increase, for the most part, some standard. But there are some reductions in air monitoring pass through just based off of budget constraints and personnel increasing costs, but yet other pieces not staying the same. So if there's any questions on that, we can talk about that. But if not, we can move through. The next one. So these are prior fiscal year updates. We've really consolidated them for this purpose on one slide. Your packet has been broken out with a little bit more detail. Are there any specific questions on prior year fiscal updates that you have specifically based off of what we've presented?

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I'm going to ask a different question it's just and seem to that's around carry forward. You're an area that has a bunch of carry forward. And I'm noticing that brownfield remediation has almost 6,000,000 and carried forward from 2021.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Yes, that is funds that you provided us to support major brownfield remediation sites. There's one in Burlington that's an example,

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: and I'm forgetting the other one right off

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: the top of my head. I think that the governor's budget proposes to reallocate a proportion of that?

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: 500,000 is what I see in reversion. So not very much. So you're still gonna have $5,300,000.05000000 dollars. Yes. Okay.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: And it's for those projects that you see up on the screen.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay, so

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: you have the fund fund the site. You

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: to think about that money, because twenty twenty one's a long time ago. Start looking and saying, do they really need the money? Okay, and then the one below it is state owned dam risk, also from 2021, which is a million 1.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Those are, okay, so those are funds that are part of the capital planning. They're federal general fund budget, they're part of capital planning for dams. Commissioner knows about them. He was in the room when we talked about them. We have a very long queue of projects for construction. Let me see. FY '25 balance. This

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: was from yeah. But this was given to you in 2021. Right. And it's I'll ask Trevor to look at that with you and more information.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: We have 700 sites that is already in encumbrances and contracts.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: And we expect to obligate the remaining.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay. And you have 4,000,000 in healthy homes, 2025, you're just continuing to spend

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: That is on yeah. That actually and we have over a 100 awards on that that are staged right now.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay. So And River Corridor for a million and a half?

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: That is part of act one twenty one. Those are the one time funds. Hope we get that that slide. Yeah.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: This is all one time.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Yep. Yep. It's the one twenty one slide. There it is. So we have a number of contracts that we will put together in order to conduct either infill mapping for communities or precision mapping of river corridors under act one twenty one, the Flood Safety Act. We are required to make new rules that dictate statewide rules as opposed to municipal zoning, that dictate what can or cannot be built in river corridors. In order to do that and provide regulatory certainty, we need tight maps that we public notice, that people accept, that are not subject to having to go out and do a verification in the field every single time somebody wants to build a thing.

[Rep. David Yacovone (Member)]: Are you having trouble on all the damn safety projects? Are you having trouble with contractors? Is there any kind of shortage of contractors in a timely manner? No.

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I would I would have to ask Ben Green for sure. But, you know, once we go through the procurement processes that we do under Bulletin 3.5, there are some really good contractors that are working with the dam safety program. We've got to have both local scale yellow machine operators and people who know how to move stuff around, and we have national scale engineering firms that are working on our dams. It seemed like there was a while there was a real bottleneck in the those did you get contractors for different types of construction projects. That's true. Engineering capacity and construction capacity is tight. Dam safety is a little bit of a niche space. There are specific like, it's there are specific engineering skills, and we work with a couple of big firms that do a good job. And, you know, not everybody can just drive in there with the yellow machine and start busting up again. So

[Julie Moore (Secretary of Natural Resources)]: have one more quick question for you on that.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Thank you. You read my back. You have a fund in deficit, the Waste Management Assistance Fund of 648,000. How did it get there? And what are you going to do about it without asking the general fund to backfill you?

[Neil Kamman (Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation)]: It's an ebb and flow. Do you want to take this? You have this?

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: I have this. Can give

[Rep. Thomas Stevens (Member)]: a yeah, no. This

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: is teamwork. This is fantastic. So that fund is really solid waste program as well as our e waste program. And really, that's reflective of even though it says we're in the negative, we're not. It's really a build back program. So it's really net zero coming back to just quarterly billing and bringing them back in, timing and all. So it's not a concern at all.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So we will not hear from you about that. You will not hear from us. There has been a theme of asking us to backfill special funds, but it sounds like you've figured it out. Great. Thank you very much. Anything else you want to

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: No, I think the rest is just we've got our legislative reports there, as well as some of our moving forward performance reports. So if you wanted to take a look in that and have us back and ask us any questions, we welcome the questions to come. Appreciate that. And they give specific projects based on the different divisions that we have and the different programs. And then that's really and then our you questions on

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: the budget development form, we can Probably not. I think the idea is to not spend a lot of time on there. I think you've highlighted the things that we would find out there. That's great. And then so I appreciate all you guys are doing. It's a lot of work in your division. And we will get you back in April to talk about the Champlain updates and ARPA updates. Those are the two we talked about, right?

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: Any other questions? Anything else that comes up that

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: we can think of. And as you know, Trevor is your liaison and he's been doing that for a while, so he knows it well. So thank you very much. So committee, we are going to take a ten minute break and then Thank you for your time.

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: It's very nice to meet everybody. You. What do

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: we have next? Fish and Wildlife? Fish and Wildlife. So, if you all don't mind waiting ten more minutes, we'll do that and then we'll finish up by

[Commissioner Nassise Siniscalchi (Department of Environmental Conservation)]: noon.

[Rep. Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay, let's stop by. Thank you.