Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Good afternoon. This is the House Appropriations Committee. It is May 2026. It's just after 1PM. And now that we've passed the budget adjustment out of our committee, we are going to move right on to the FY '27 budget, never a dull moment. And with us today, we have back the Commissioner of Finance and Management, Adam Gresham, to talk to us about the language and maybe anything else we forgot in our budget summary from last week.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Okay. Thank you. Adam Gresham, commissioner of finance and management. Thank you for inviting me. Nice to see you guys again now that we're moving on to the the main show. So in that regard, you have in front of you, I believe, the budget language. We took mercy on you guys this year. It's only 34 pages. We've we've been longer than that. I don't know if we've been shorter. One of the one of the unique features of this budget, and I was kinda racking my brain for whether this is actually the only time we've done this, but there is there's no c section.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yeah. You mentioned that there was no section c.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's maybe fast, but it's one reason why, and part of that is we had a second bite at the apple with the. Right. So we didn't, we didn't need a c section. So you don't see that there. There is also no e 100, which is typically where musicians are created or changed. We are calling for new positions here, but we are taking them from the pool.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: And so even when you're calling for new ones, it doesn't show up in e one

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It's not show up in e 100 because we're not actually creating new positions. We're repurposing existing vacant positions.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: It's the same. So if there's limited service before, there's still limited service or whatever. Because we did have one change for the LERB, the land use review board went from limited service to permanent. So that had to be an e 100.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And you'll see in here, there's one public service department change from limited service to permanent that we're going to do through the pool. Okay. So anyway, so without a c section, without e 100 section and, actually, the final unique thing, I think I mentioned this earlier when we came in to speak to you about the general fund overview, the the budget last year, act 27, which is currently budget, had up to, I think, double e in the Oh, hard times. Didn't need to double anythings this year. We're just we're just at h, so there are many fewer one time.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: That's about four pages.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Kind of shocking that when you don't have money, you just don't spend a lot. Anyway

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: Way to be. Yes.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: He did not make any changes other than the date to the a section, and, really, within the language, bottom of page three is where the one time sections start. Now, madam chair, I can we can I can take you through the the one times? I know that you'll speak with the various departments for greater explanations, but I can give you brief explanations of what they are.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Really important. The one times are always of interest to people. So

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So in the one times to the agency of administration, there are two onetime appropriations to existing or kind of re upping existing appropriations. One is, what we call the IDEAL program, which is run through the office of racial equity. That ideal is inclusion, diversity, equity, action, and leadership. And we are re upping that for another year. The Susanna Davis, the director of the Office of Racial Equity, would be very happy to she's very beholden to that program.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: She Yeah. I I don't know if she's on our list to cut in, Autumn, but we should definitely get her in. So if this is about the third year of this, maybe, it'd be good

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: to hear about it. Yeah.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And that's where work with municipalities and kind of Right. Help them along in their diversity, equity programs. The second one time is to Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And as you're probably aware, they are active through April year of this fiscal year.

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: Right.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Pardon me. April '27. And after or or prior to that, they'll issue a final report and so on. So this is to get them through April 30. The next two are to diva. One is essentially a response to h r one, a federal reconciliation bill that is predominantly federal funds, but there's a $300,000 general fund appropriation. And that's where, you know, as it says, IT needs kinda to provide them ability to operate as This is the beginning of those expenses, thanks to the changes in HR one, which include different batches and more illustrative work on our end that they've

[Chair Robin Scheu]: taken away for themselves and given to us.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So they've recognized that this is gonna be cost you'll also see later on in the document, there are some positions attached to that at Diva that will in part be doing what this money is providing. There's also another $2,000,000 for provider stabilization. You'll recall that was a onetime appropriation a couple years ago of $10,000,000. Last year. Yeah. Yeah. And then there was a substantial amount of carryforward there. AHS will speak to you about the reasoning behind this, but they're still worried about certain providers and their financial stability. So they are asking for to round up that amount a little bit, and they believe that's sufficient to get them through '27, although they don't know. That's their best estimate. And I know that you guys are looking into that and and looking at other ways to provide stability.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: What what providers,

[Rep. David Yacovone]: what kind of providers?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: This would be nursing homes. It would be IBNR, I mean, a number of different. To DCF, the number under sub c number one and number three added together come out to be about $21,000,000. That's the onetime amount for emergency housing. Those two together, 6,000,000 for shelters, 15,000,000 for temporary emergency housing, which is predominantly hotel motel.

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: It's okay too. Yeah. I just does this include I mean, it doesn't include this is in addition to carry forward

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's correct.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: This year.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And there's also, as you're aware, there's a base appropriation this year that's actually enhanced substantially. It's about up a little more than $10,000,000. So the one time amount, you'll remember, from past years is actually lower than it has in past years, and that's in part due to the fact that we're moving about 10,000,000 of these costs into place. So DCF general assistance base is actually about 10.1 or $10,200,000 higher than last year. And some of that or actually a substantial part of that was from one time funding in prior years that were going into the base. Our goal, as DCF will tell you, is to make this exactly zero next year and to have you know, they're in the process of revamping the emergency housing program. They'll have much more articulate words to say about it than I, but this is this year's allotment. And the 4,000,000 is that's for Red Clover.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Red Clover? And

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: go ahead. I'm sorry. So what about the Windham unit for solar?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: They're work they're working on it. I mean, our hope is we'll have something to tell you in terms of their progress in that, but they are working.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So So that's not one time.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's in the the former sheriff's

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yes.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. Two seat. Yes. And that wouldn't be one time. That would be a basic expenditure. Thank you.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: There's Okay. Question about

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: the site. One of the one of

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: the reasons they're bringing these rooms online is to help keep kids out of the emergency rooms.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: The so the goal is zero out next year, but but that wouldn't include the red clover bag? That's correct. That's correct.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So to UBM, I think the last thing I said when we came here before, I said I didn't wanna leave the room without mentioning to you that

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Big deal.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: There's a $15,000,000 appropriation to from the Higher Education Endowment Fund to UVM for their multipurpose center project. That's a facility that UVM has invested substantial dollars already, I believe 70,000,000 or so dollars already in. It's stalled. They wanna reignite and finish the job. There is a substantial amount of money UVM will tell you behind that $15,000,000. And I I think, you know, at the end of the day, I think UVM is looking for a state commitment too. So

[Chair Robin Scheu]: They're coming in next week on February 4, think.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: So

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I'm sure they will be very happy to speak

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: to you.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: They will be very happy to ask them a lot of questions about it.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Dave? Maybe Adam is not the right person, so correct me if I'm wrong, but what's the impact to the trust fund if 15,000,000 is gone?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So you're aware that this is is actually part of title 16. It's part of education. If you look in title 16, you can find there's one subchapter on the higher education trust fund. It receives any money that the general assembly would transfer to it. I believe private donations, and then it receives a 125 any time the estate tax comes in more than 25% higher than forecast, each dollar in addition to that 25% goes to the higher education endowment trust fund. For that reason, last year, there was a substantial sum that came in above forecast. I believe 25 to $30,000,000 above. That went into the higher education endowment trust fund. So our contention is that and that money is doled out to the three recipients, BSAC, the University of Vermont, and Vermont State Colleges equally. The treasurer, by the way, is the one to talk to about this this fund. He oversees it. Our, you know, belief is that with that additional amount that went into this trust fund between 25 and $30,000,000, all three recipients will still receive substantially more than they would have otherwise. So VSAC and Vermont State Colleges will still get, you know, substantially more than they would have in prior years, but that addition will be $15,000,000 less. So

[Chair Robin Scheu]: We will get somebody in to talk to us about the trust fund, how they work. Don't know if somebody is an expert or whether we just get the treasurer, but we'll we'll figure that out and

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: get some I think mean, there are there's a board that I believe oversees that. I think the treasurer would probably be the the smartest person in the room.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Yeah. Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So if

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: you could

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: use Great. And I I actually had met with the president and CFO about this project here Uh-huh. Prior to learning this money money from here to which they can match the donations in a significant way. Yeah. To help fill the gap. Right. Above and beyond. There's a substant they've told us there's a substantial amount of

[Chair Robin Scheu]: We're living about all kinds of things this year. Section eight housing, giving them the trust.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It's just a new work here.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: It is. Yeah.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: But I would also keep the Higher Education Endowment Trust Fund in the front of your mind. You'll see later on in the language, we're going to change the, direction of surplus estate tax receipts, and we're going to direct them towards a school aid construction fund. So, anyway, that

[Chair Robin Scheu]: We'll try.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: We'll Okay. More to come. Great. The Vorak program, this committee is probably familiar with that from past years, giving them another half $1,000,000. Just, you know, FPR can speak quite articulately on that. It's a great program, leverages a lot of community support and the like. So sub f to DHCD, you'll see a little later on, there is a 800 and, I think, $29,000 reversion from the mobile home condemnation program. You'll recall this was set up in the wake of the July twenty three floods. So it was picks up the '23 and '24. I think this one came after the July twenty three floods. There was a 1 and a half million dollar transfer to the mobile home condemnation project. That 1 and a half million dollars actually came from a surplus in the renter rebate, b one thirty eight. That's the renter rebate, which I think it is. So they created this program, and the the concept of the mobile home condemnation project was there were a lot of people who, had homes on rented property. They were flooded. They really these people were in bad straits. So the idea was to give them the maximum award. They got some of these people most of these people receive FEMA awards, but they often were not equal to what their loss was. So this kind of trued them up to the maximum amount that FEMA could give out, which was $41,000. The idea was to try to get these people on their feet into another home, you know, try as best we can to make it better for them. Anyway, that program had a balance left over of 800 about $830,000. That balance is being reverted, and that's, being reappropriated into the manufacture yeah. The MER program, manufacturing.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: It's been very successful.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So that is, in a sense, I mean, once reversions happen, they'll go all go up to a big pool. So one thing doesn't fund another necessarily, but that that's the idea behind it. We're essentially they wanted to just they called us and said, can we just transfer this in? They said, well, I can't do that. We have to revert it and reappropriate it. So

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: went well.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Mobile phone condemnation fund. And it was if you you'd have to look through back through the eboard. I believe it was September 2023, the believe. The Department of Economic Development has a contract with an office in Montreal to spread the word about the good things that happened in Vermont. They'd like to continue that for another year. They think it's yielded some good results. And finally, h is a a losing my words. It's an appropriation to help to AOT for the relocating the central garage as a pain turnpike in Berlin. This money is actually, coming. You'll see later on under transfers. It's a transfer from the insurance reserve fund to fund this. And the insurance reserve fund received roughly $49,000,000, I'm going to say, two years ago after the floods from our insurance company. This is one of multiple payments that will be made out of that fund in future years to help with damage, that was incurred. One part of that damage, was the central garage that is, you know, right off of 302 that was flooded badly. And so this is essentially taking a step towards replacing it.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Is it located out of a flood zone now?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Any turnpike in Berlin? You probably have driven by the spot.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I probably have, but it's not something I'm wildly familiar with not living in this county.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Nor am I, actually. Nor am I. But I think back in the day when the pavilion was flooded and we were working out of Berlin, I think Yeah.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: It's

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: it's in and around Nap State Airport.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: Alright. On the hill. On the hill.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: That's that's a good thing. We have to ask these questions.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: So so we have some things that are not self insured for the state. So you actually have insurance policy?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Insurance. $49,000,000 worth from the flood.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Yeah. So

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: that, like I said, that was

[Chair Robin Scheu]: pause on that one for one more question thing is that's not g f. It's from the T fund.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's well, it's from their reserve fund. It goes to T fund and and will you'll see later on

[Chair Robin Scheu]: involved in that one now is what I've seen.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. You'll see later on is a a transfer that provides that spending approach. It's actually under the d one zero one fund transfers on page eight. But, anyway, I'll get to that. Okay.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay. And, you know, this is 35 pages with explanations, so it's not really 35 pages.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I know. And you'll see that there are some sections I will skip, largely the standard language sections, but I wanna try to highlight everything that I think you guys are gonna wanna dig into. Not to say that some things I don't highlight, you won't want to, but the so I'm making my own choices. The property transfer tax allocations, the you know, as always, there's a fair amount of verbiage there. But what I will tell you, the the takeaway is, the Vermont Housing Conservation Board, they're getting their full allocation. The municipal and regional planning commissions are getting the full, top, pardon me, top line allocation. However, at the request of ACCD, we've rejiggered the amounts that are going to municipalities and regional. They had a an ask of us to change what statute would allocate to them.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So They're getting different is it Yes. Different amounts than they would have gotten in previous years, or is it the same equation? It's not the same equation?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Statute tells you so 13% of the total property transfer tax is destined for municipal and regional planning commissions, I believe is the 13% number. Of that amount, 70% goes to, I wanna say, regional planning commissions, and 20% goes to municipal planning commissions, and 10% goes to the Vermont Center for, geographic information. Okay. So this is seventy twenty ten. The the the 10 the Vermont Center for Geographic Information, which is overseen by ADS, that we're leaving alone. They're getting 10%, but the the 70 20 is being rejiggered by ACCD. And they would be very happy to Okay. But Alright. But that's the one change from statute. The other change from statute is which has happened most years is statute has one and a half percent off the top of the property transfer tax goes to tax, to administer the PBNR to administer the current use program

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Right.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Use value appraisal.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yeah.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: They simply don't need that amount. You know, every year I dial up tax, Stanley, Andrew Stein, he gets back to me, and I say, you know, what do you need? What's your reasonable amount? You can't have everything. Anyway, so they give me their budget and the balance, which is typically in the half 1,000,000 ish range. I think this year was a little over half $1,000,000.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So we

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: sweep into the general fund.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Oh, okay. The extra.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Okay. So that goes to the general fund. So, anyway, the the property transfer tax language, the the the two changes is one, the current use program, we take some of that. They don't need the whole thing put into general fund. And two, the allocation between municipal and regional planning commissions is somewhat reaching.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Okay. So we'll So what's

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Those are the changes there. In, d one zero one, under fund transfers, you see all the transfers from the general fund. I I would just make a couple of notes on this. The geo, general obligation bonds debt service fund, the 73,700,000.0, that actually is lower than I mean, I think last year, it was 78,000,000. I forget what the exact numbers. That's come down. That's because there's a balance in the fund. So $3,800,000 balance was left in the

[Chair Robin Scheu]: In the debt service plan?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's

[Chair Robin Scheu]: right. From when?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: From prior year, it would have been. Although, actually, I can't confirm that it was from one year. It may have I don't know. It may have built up. I'm not really sure, but there's really no reason to carry a balance in that fund. So what we're doing is we're just using that 3,800,000.0 plus the 73,797,000.000 to meet our debt service obligations, as provided to us from the treasurer's office. So, anyway but that number is a little bit lower. Okay. Capital infrastructure subaccount, that's you know, we're using the formulaic amount, 4% of prior year appropriations minus debt service equals that amount. The the the tax computer system modernization, that amount, you'll see below, there's also an ed fund transfer to tax computer system modernization. That's to basically pay for or by b tax. Wait. Wait.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: A 115,000,000 is that that's oh, that's separate. You're you're still on c, the tax book. So kind of

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: innocuous little just one little line in there. You know, people ask, well, where is this, you know, to the education fund that's gotten a lot of press? And this is yeah. This amount is

[Chair Robin Scheu]: 5,000,000 plus the 30,000,000 plus the tenure.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yes, ma'am. You've taken the words out of my mouth. There's three components to this. One is you just finished the BAA 74.9. Later on, you'll see we unreserved 30,000,000 of a temporary reserve. And then, there's a you'll also see language in here to change the purchase and use tax use in the Ed fund. We backfill the Ed fund for the first year of $10,000,000. So that additional 10,000,000 is added to this transfer. So that equals basically a $115,000,000, but those are the three components behind that. Also, just below that, sub e is state police radio equipment replacement special fund. That is you'll see later in this language, we create that fund. And, you know, DPS can can speak, I think, articulately on this.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: The

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: radio this is I don't mind saying this has taken probably more conversation and intellectual horsepower than I might be willing to share in that they have you know, you would think like, with most equipment, you can you have a capital fund or a fund you have aside that you have a regular kind of rotation cycle. With radios, it's a little bit more challenging as they'll explain because their radios have to all be in sync, and they have to be the same models, or at least the same years. I I don't I mean, they would be the one to to explain. So it can't be that they I mean, because we originally envisioned well, they'll face about a third of their radios every year, but that is suboptimal for them. So the problem, as you guys are aware, it's hard to just appropriate this money to them and then assume that for a couple years they won't touch it or we won't touch it, frankly, and it will build up. And then when it's time to make the purchase, they do. So what we're doing is we're segregating it. We're saying, you know, okay. So this will go to a radio replacement fund. They have $500,000, I believe, in their base this year. And so along with this year's and this amount, they should be able to go out by radio. So we're trying to work with them, but I mean, it's

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I think last year just came up and they wanted a whole lot, and we cut it back. Right. Said you can only you know, you don't need it all right now. So Anyway, I have the equivalent of the 23 $27.53 reserve kind of thing that you've built it up and then you pay it.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: But I wanted you to know, we actually hit this a lot of thought. And, again, DPS can explain. I'm sure commissioner Washington will be very happy to come in to talk about radios. We can radio into this committee if you want.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: There you go. We have to have some on the other end. Wayne, go ahead.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Are they dealing with with all?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: You got Wardens and so on? I don't know.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: And, of course, you got the liquor police, and you got the transporters.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I don't know. It's the anti If I were a betting man, I'd say they're not, but I don't know that. That would be a good question for that.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: Those betting man think they should since they all should be on the same system.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I I hope I'm wrong, and you're right. I don't know. So

[Rep. David Yacovone]: I think they were probably right.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So I I don't there's nothing really to emphasize in the next the t fund also pays part of our debt service, and you see that appropriation there. And then downtown transportation related capital improvements fund, that's a an annual transfer. There's the ed fund payment for our tax system, then a couple of appropriations that were sent to us from the clean water board that you see in there. Flipping a the sure.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: Is is this transferred from the head on to the tax computer modernization fund? No.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It's well, so last year or the year before, I believe it's probably the year before, when we rejiggered how they're paid for this. You remember they used to get, this is actually you probably remember. They used to get

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: We bought all that fund. We created these funds.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's right.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: We put all this money we had from ARPA for about 12 projects in this fund.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And that's a different fund. That's the tech modernization fund.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: Oh, oh, I'm sorry.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's a different fund.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I don't know. That's

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I confuse them too. I confuse them too in my own mind. But, no, this this fund was was created so they could basically keep their systems updated and the like. And the general fund pays the lion's share of it, but the Ed fund basically, it's to the general fund of the Ed fund because they collect revenue. You know, the the Ed fund, they have the non tax revenue that's collected predominantly by the tax department and, of course, the general funds. So this is just kind of a tit for tat. You help collect it, but you help maintain the system.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: And the the Clean Water Fund, just to remind people, is going to the special funds because they've designated specific projects they wanna have done. That's correct. That's the transfer to that fund. Mhmm. That's correct.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So I'm on the the top middle of page eight under sub six, the AG. The normal general fund direct app is 2,000,000 from settlement. They make an estimate to us about what they think they'll take in from consumer lawsuits. $2,000,000 is typical. Sometimes it's more than that. Past years, it actually has been more than that. Sometimes it's less than that. But the sub b, miscellaneous fines and penalties, that amount is actually taken that had a balance in that fund and it is being used for the 25% state match for the Medicaid fraud. Let's see. What's what's m fraud? Medicaid fraud and something abuse unit. Medicaid fraud and residential abuse unit, maybe? Anyway

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Is that tell you about that. Designation name for that?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I think it is.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: That sounds like it.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And there's a 25% state match. Sarah London would be happy to come in and explain, but they had a balance in there, in fund twenty one twenty one zero five four that we specifically left there as opposed to sweep it in there using it for state match for what they believe will be necessary expenditures. I just wanted to point that out, and that's that hasn't appeared in past years.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: No. And then one up above, would you just remind us about earned federal receipts and what that means again?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So that's representative Yacovone's favorite fund that comes from the Blue Book, which are federal receipts that are earned and not used. And so those are set aside by AHS, and that fund builds. Currently, they have well, actually always at AHS, they have more uses for it than they have money, but I think they can come in and tell you, mean, hope is they can use that for technology needs, most notably, I. E, integrated eligibility.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So they had to return it, but they have plans? Yeah. As always. Yeah. Everybody has plans. You know,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I I will say that there's more there. We've kept this amount fairly well, not fairly, exactly stable for the past four or five years. But that's basically receipts that AHS has earned from various federal projects that have either come in under what they anticipated or the like. So they they sock them away for a rainy day. It's kind of an AHS internal fund. Finally, sub seven, I mentioned earlier, there this is for the central garage movement project to pay in Turnpike, and there is the transfer from the insurance reserve to pay for that. Below that, you see, that famous cash machine known as DFR Like DF. To their, you know, direct apps from, insurance and securities fund. In addition, you have the treasurer, which has also become, by the way, I might add, a kind of a cash box, the unclaimed property fund. These estimates we get from commissioner Sampson and his group as well as treasurer and Al Laroche, his group.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: But are they how do

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: these compare to the last few years?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: They're pretty much the same. Pretty much the same. Yeah. They're pretty much

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: the same.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: 66,000,000 Although DFR. And you'll note that this year, they actually I'm kind of wondering whether they might be a little bit down from this year. Because remember, there was $2,000,000 in the BAA of additional. Right. So it may be that FY '26 is higher than this. I I don't I mean, that's, I think, a reasonable I can't answer. But It's in the ballpark. Let's put it out. The the final one, though, I think I would explain it's kind of interesting to note that we're actually from DFR, we're actually receiving, you know, $43,000,000 from the insurance and regulatory fund, $24,000,000 from the securities regulatory supervision fund. However, we're paying out a 143,000 to the captive insurance fund, which is a little bit unusual.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Don't they usually give us money that month?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: They haven't for a number of years.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: They haven't. And So for all the noise we make about captive, we're not actually getting stuff from it? So

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: there's a story. There's some context, but I'm sure. Please. So the captives pay us in two ways. One is an excise tax, premium sold. That's where we receive about approximately $30,000,000 of excess tax. Okay. Two, the companies pay a fee to operate just like an insurance company. And statutorily, they the fees are supposed to pay for their business operations. They haven't for a number of years. So whereas, you know, you can see that the fees for securities and insurance are plenty to pay for the operations. It's not true in cash. So we at the end of the year, the financial operations kinda trues this up. It tells us what the balance is, and so we provide a transfer to clean up a negative balance. So anyway, I just wanted to point that out. It's kind of unusual. Yes. The captive companies still provide revenue to the state, albeit not so much fee revenue. They do provide fee revenue, but their cost of doing business is higher than what they generate fees.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Oh, the end of the question.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: So what happens to the 30,000,000 that they pay in their excise? That just goes to

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: It goes

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: into the general.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: And that doesn't count on all the other stuff that they generate, salaries. And it's supposed to be a very lucrative business practice.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. So it yeah. I mean, that doesn't include as they'll tell you, it doesn't include all the jobs and so on. But the excise tax is directed to the general, whereas their fees they pay are directed to the captive insurance regulatory and supervision. Sure. There do you see our best guess on sports wagering and liquor in the next

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Sports wagering has been sort of the same amount every year, and it's not very exciting after all the poofy laugh out of it.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: I think a lounge chair is $67,000,000. Mean, you know,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: $50. I mean,

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I think I think the expectation was when we all passed this bill that there'd be a lot more coming in on that area. I mean, I know you don't budget for

[Rep. David Yacovone]: it necessarily ahead of time, but I

[Chair Robin Scheu]: think that's what we were all expecting.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Okay. It's washing. Explanation.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: On the following page, 10 of 34, d one zero two, one zero two, do you see the reversions? Yeah. Many of these, if not all of these, might not have appeared here were it not for a revenue downgrade that, you know, we may have taken these next year or whatever, but the revenue downgrade, you know, we were at a balance by almost 9,000,000, so this is additional revenue that you see from aversions here.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yeah. I guess interesting to me that you're choosing some FEMA that was the denial that's the denial reserve? Yeah.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: There's still money left over in that reserve, but we thought that, you know, there's roughly 5,000,005 million left over. We just thought that based on what we've seen thus far and there are some claims that we think are likely will be denied, but we thought that the balance was a little bit beefier than we needed.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: When you're thinking about FEMA, these numbers aside, I'm feeling a little worried about what Washington is doing and trying to dump FEMA onto the states. So when I see we're unreserving anything female related, that just makes me a little nervous. So how are you thinking about all that?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So the denial reserve was specific, and that is it was working with a consultant. He came up with our approach to not only COVID, but also the flood disasters and the like. And we had a kind of a definite, probably, and risky. Yeah. And this was meant for the risky category. That really hasn't I mean, FEMA has not changed any of their guidelines. So in that regard, we're feeling reasonably safe. But, you know, in answer to your you know, I think that what you were getting at is I don't you know, the answer is I don't know. I mean, we hear different every single day. I mean, Douglas Farnham would be, I think, more able to go deep on this. But, you know, we we just can't at this point, we're just not responding to daily things. When we receive something in the mail or by email that says do this, do that, then we know it's real.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Right. I'll just and we we can get Douglas in here because I wanna understand how how you all are thinking about it, not necessarily that it's in the budget, but knowing that there's this stuff swirling around about FEMA, we ought to be thinking about it, and sort of what's our plan B or C or F or whatever we're up to now in case some of these things happen.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: Well, I think I can just flip it over here and take the I was in the BHFA, million dollars from BHFA in the first one? Yeah.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It was actually a a $5,000,000 I think it was $5,000,000 appropriation, 2,000,000 of which was we reverted. That was on, I think, last year's reversion sheet that was a session law reversion, you know, requirement to revert 2,000,000 of it. This is one additional amount that we thought, you know, that they had told us was not necessary. There still is a balance of a little over a million dollars, like 1,300,000.0 in that fund. So it doesn't it's not eliminating the purposes of that, but the original appropriation, as you see, was from 2022. So

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: Trevor? I I guess I'm not clear on something. I thought we adjusted the BAA for the downgrade. Yes.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I used There's no reversion. That's correct.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: Reference to downgrade. Why are you doing it twice? Well, because

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: some of this we need to fix a hole in fiscal twenty seven from the down you know, there was two downgrades. It was an 8,100,000.0 downgrade in '26, and then a 8,700,000 '27. Was gone. So I suppose we could have done it all in the BAA and carried forward a bit that amount, but we just thought we would just leave it for Yeah.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So that was about 9,500,000.0.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: In d one zero three, the, reserves, you have your regular, statutory amounts that are given to the 2753. You see, we're we're approximating 9,100,000.0 for stabilization reserve. You also see that we there's the unreserving, the $30,000,000 temporary reserve that was set up in as a contingent appropriation last year. And then, indeed, what we're saying there is that the we're kinda notwithstanding the general general fund waterfall and saying, if there is extra, it should go into these important needs, housing, property tax relief, and other things.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Uses the sort of that standard language that we've been using for What What we're doing

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: is we're we're essentially putting this ahead of the wharf.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: But that being Ahead of our

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: contingency list, what we call it. Yeah.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Do have you questions? So,

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: there any funding or fund that remains to adjust to federal changes? Or is this it?

[Rep. David Yacovone]: I

[Chair Robin Scheu]: just

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: want to make sure that I'm clear about will over into the next fiscal

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: year.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So there was the $50,000,000 appropriation to the agency of administration, five of which you're you used in your BAA and seven of which we use for SNAP, I think,

[Chair Robin Scheu]: in six point eight years.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So there's probably, let's say, 38,000,000 left in that. There was a $30,000,000, temporary reserve. It's not this $32.30 There are $2.30 millions. So that would be adding the two together about $68,000,000 that is essentially unallocated, unexpended for federal response.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay. So just wanted to make

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: sure I knew that. That's right.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So that reserved, and we're one year into this administration, things have happened, and we don't know what else is going to happen. So keeping the money in reserve at the moment, not spending it all right away seems to be prudent.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So are there more questions on D103? Seeing

[Chair Robin Scheu]: any.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So moving to the well, moving to the e section, the first one, e one zero six, This, rather obliquely, but you'll see later on in the line of the s two, the setup of a new special fund for school construction. And we wanna make sure that and and the movement of the estate tax, any receipts in excess of a 125% of state tax forecast as determined by the e board. We're setting up a school construction fund, again, that you'll see later on in the language, and this money will be direct there. And so we are trying within statute that where that may have an impact. We're trying to make sure that it is mentioned.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So we still would be filling up the rainy day Yes. Reserve, and then anything extra after that would go

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. This doesn't

[Chair Robin Scheu]: production front?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: This does yeah. No. It only the estate tax excess above a 125%.

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: Okay. And then in a year like this year, what would that be? What would that amount to?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: In most years, it's a matter to exactly zero. You know, there's been very you know, the estate taxes. Sometimes wealthy people pass, and sometimes they don't. And, you know, not to be too macabre about it, but last year, we hit the jackpot with

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So how much went in last year? Because that was a very unusual year, just so we have a sense of what the high end do you remember what the

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So the total amount in addition above the 20125% level was I wanna say 25 to 30,000,000.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I was gonna say, I think, yeah, $26.27 dollars. Yeah.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I heard that that's substantially one estate Yeah. Forever. So and for most years, this has been really nothing. You can look back and see, and, actually, the treasurer may have better figures. But for some years, it's been okay. And I would say maybe 50% of the time. I mean, I don't know if I maybe not even.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: So,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: you know, I would also add that times when the asset markets are booming, we expect that the value of the states have inflated. And so the amount of estate tax paid has gone up. So during less boom times, maybe that won't be the case.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: So is rainy rainy day fund healthy?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. I mean, it's $978,000,000 dollars. It yeah.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: We have two fund. We have the stable we have the stabilization.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It's about 110,000,000

[Chair Robin Scheu]: reserve, which is the main one that we created this one second. The stabilization one is the one that's really, really, really hard to get

[Rep. David Yacovone]: any money out of. This one is

[Chair Robin Scheu]: a little bit easier to get out. And then we have the 2,357 reserve, which is for the Medicaid and

[Rep. David Yacovone]: the extra payroll. And then we have the caseload, services caseload reserve for Medicaid stuff. But the one traditionally known as getting the funds, the $90,000,000 one?

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yeah, which is a little easier to access, still not easy, it has a few hard under the other one.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: I was going to say that early on when I was first here, we had the state tax, a couple of very wealthy individuals who passed away in two or three years. And there was a lot of money going in, and it was normally never budgeted for. But then they started budgeting for it. And then there was another time a few years later, there was another spouse of one of those people passed away. But I think this is it might have been an anomaly. And this is just a one shot deal, basically. This person dies.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I mean, again, with asset markets, there may be others, but yes.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: So you don't budget for it anymore?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Well, it's part of the Eborg forecast. They, you know, they forecast it, but, you know, there, again, it's lumpy. There are times when we get a lot of money, there are times when we don't get. It's kind of ridiculous to look at it on

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: a month to month basis,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: and they're just not silly, really. But, yeah.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: This is So yeah.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: Sorry. Nowhere in here do I read estate tax except on the explanation. Is the estate taxes 16 BSA $34.44? It will be later on in the language. We're we're we're establishing it. Yes.

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: Okay. But

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: the intent, I guess, eventually, when we get to it, is to have the excess of the estate tax, not go to the higher education.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's right. To go to Yeah. I think it's no secret. The governor, and I I think this body too, are are looking for ways to provide funding for school construction. We know this that's a big nut. We know that we don't have that kind of money lying around. So we're doing what we can to provide assets for school construction, and this is a small way to do it. Some years, it might, again, be a lot of money, but we're just doing what we can in that regard. Okay. The the next few, I think, you will recognize as standard language, but I did wanna stop hard stop at e one thirty nine.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: And this litigation is this on?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: This is a topic that you guys are well familiar with.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Looks like the same number we've had for at least six years. Well,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: so this is the reappraisal and listing Oh, I gotcha. Change. And you will see it show up in, you know, not only e 139, but in e 142.1, e 142.2, 142.3, and 142.4. It turns out, you know, as I'm reading through this, it just I had a chuckle. So there are four functions for this appropriation, and each of those function has statutory citation that we had to change. So there's the per parcel fee that we pay towns and municipalities for appraising their property, that's $8.50 per parcel. There's the $1 per parcel fee that we pay towns for helping with the group equalization study, that also is in statute. There's the $100,000 that we use for educating listers and the like statewide. That had a statutory reference. And there's the $70,000 that we put aside for municipal litigation assistance for municipalities that host hydroelectric plants. That had a statute. So each one of these things, we went through, and I I don't claim that we didn't miss one. So this may be one, but I think you guys probably did a similar search too. But it's I just had a chuckle to myself that, you know, this page and a half of citations for this pilot special fund. So

[Chair Robin Scheu]: That one doesn't mention Okay, is the grand list now gonna come from the pilot? Yeah.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yes. So, again, that's predominantly for towns that host hydroelectric plants, I believe, or large commercial properties that are very expensive to litigate if the commercial owner wants to litigate it. Some of these towns are small towns without a budget. So that's partly why the that that is why the state, you has provided assistance in that regard.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Oh, yes. Okay. I'm gonna choose the answer first. He's gonna be our product expert.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Alrighty. Okay. So I'm moving forward all the way to page 15. Actually, sorry, page 16 of 34 to e two zero nine point one.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yeah. Just a sec. I will right. So anything in the attorney general one and e 200 we need to know?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It's standard language. I didn't

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Amount is whatever they want to

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: read to. Same with public safety. Yeah.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: And, yeah, the state police and the search and rescue.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So e 209.1, that's, as I promised you before, is a coming attraction. Yeah. There is the radio equipment replacement special fund. And further on in e two seventeen, That is the first mentioned, but you'll see further down, there's more of additional positions created through use of the position pool.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Can we back up a minute? Yes. E 02/15, this is the military tuition. I think you keep putting the same amount in every year, and every year we end up with a reversion.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It's hard. It's true. And what I'll say for these guys is they are really good about you know, every year they contact us and say, you know what? This is what we use. This is what we don't use. But, you know, a lot of their estimates are who's going to be deployed, who's not gonna

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: be Right. So

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I you know They're

[Rep. David Yacovone]: all good at the best.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Yeah. As long as they're really frugal and are really trying to give it back to us for whatever reason, this is really a huge recruitment tool.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: No, I get it. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. I'm just saying that maybe it we'll see where we end up in the budget. I have no idea that maybe there's a 100 cows in there. We're fighting over a 100,000 at the end. So I'm not saying don't do it because we know how important it is. Yeah. But it also has been, you know, never been a problem.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: It's a good thing that we're just getting a little bit better.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: And it's

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: for granites. So, they can't use it for anything else.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Right, I'm not at all worried about that. This is just something to keep in mind as we move ahead. Okay. And so the E-two seventeen is a position pool?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yes. There we are creating positions. The military has actually requested six positions. And from the pool, there's I mean, as always with these guys, there's there's a fairly steep federal match. This case, 75%. So the total request is actually much smaller than the amount of money leverage.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So are those two together, two seventeen and two eighteen, in the same Yes.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: One is the federal amount. The other is this is the general fund.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So if you're taking these from the position pool, that means that other departments and agencies can't take those six positions in the position pool.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Right. I mean, pool is for general, for all the stake up.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I guess when HR comes in, can ask them how many positions are in the position pool, unless you already know what that is.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Right now, as a so there are three heavy hitting state officers that oversee the pool. Commissioner Festigie is one. Right. The chief operating officer at AOA, Nick Cramer, is his father, and I happen to be the third.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay. So we can ask you this question. How many physicians are the physician to hold right now? If you take these six out.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And that's a steep secret. There's about six or seven, but we're anticipating that there will be. It's a public. Yeah. We're anticipating that I mean and it's it's you know, it's a pretty transparent process. When agencies have positions that they want, we often will go to them and say about providing some positions. In other words, look at your and they should be doing this anyway. You'll see that human services within DOC is looking for additional positions, but you'll also see that they are giving up some positions. But the pool now has it's under 10. Yep. There will be additions to it, though. We'll be able to I mean, it's part of our mission is to

[Rep. David Yacovone]: I mean, this is what you want us

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: to do. You want us to Yes. Deploy resources where they're most needed, you want us to take resources from where they're not.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: And that's why we ask you these questions, because then we want to understand it.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: So some people are maybe holding positions for vacancy savings, and I ask them to give up.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. And we look very carefully. Part of what we do in the pool is we look very carefully to see how long the physicians have been taking. And, you know, for physicians that have very long vacancies, we have to ask ourselves even if they, at some point, think that they wanna fill those. I mean, in the meantime, we could be doing something with those. So you know?

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So, yeah, the the first mention is in B 217 and B 218. Those are the the the same positions. The two seventeen is the federal amount and two eighteen is the general fund amount.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And you'll note again that there's only about a $147,000 for the general fund, which is not a bad deal. Right? There is $2.19 is standard, And there, per my earlier comment in e 02/22, you see a position that is being created in the agency of agriculture in their business office. And, you know, they actually asked for this for a number of years. And I will actually give them a lot of credit. They have a really good business office. They're just kinda worked a bit. They don't have any staff there. So they're creating a new position. And, also, they have a fair number of granting programs that they need to oversee, and so they are getting a new position from the pool in in our in our budget request. The Vermont Access Network for Secretary of State General Fund Appropriation, I

[Rep. David Yacovone]: think you're familiar with.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: There, I mentioned earlier, the public service department is asking to convert a limited service position into a permanent position also in their business office. And you see the language there. So when you convert, that's not

[Chair Robin Scheu]: considered that wouldn't be an e 100 thing?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: We're we're we're going to what I mean, technically, what happens is you just let that position expire and give them a position for another position. That's typical. I mean but we call it conversion, but it's really it's not you know, you're letting one expire and you just take another one.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: But is the same person gonna be doing that work? That's

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: public service can speak to you about that, but I I think that's the thing.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: This is where I get confused about how when you choose to use e 100 and when you don't, because the land use review board converted executive director from a limited service to a permanent exempt. And that went on E100. It didn't do one of these separate things like you're doing here. So I'm trying to figure out the pattern.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I don't think we can create exempt positions. I think that was probably why we got on bended knee for that one. I don't think we can create exempt.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So this is a permanent classified as opposed to a permanent exempt. Alright. And they're both

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: classified. Thanks. The next page. So where do exempt positions come from? We know that all the positions we've got were authorized and statutory. The Governor's office you know, was telling what you could get. But how do you how do you get permission for the stamp positions?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So they come from statute, and they also come from your generous feelings. I believe I believe the legislature can create exquisite.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: So they're all named for some place.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I I don't wanna give you a definitive answer, but I believe it would need to be legislated.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: In the next

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: section, PSD is asking to move from three to five years, a review of their telecom plan.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Where are we, Adam?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I'm sorry. Bottom of page eight. Thank

[Chair Robin Scheu]: you.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Here we And

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I didn't have any comments, unless you do, on the following sections. The you know, we get into the health care advocate at Montevideo, that's annual language. The global commitment language is also familiar to you.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Yeah. That's

[Chair Robin Scheu]: our last number that we've put in the budget.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It says actually, if you read the explanation, that there could be some change to this. And later on in the budget, there's mention of moving the school operated Medicaid program or agency of education operated Medicaid program to Diva. And so to the extent that and that would mean from a budgeting standpoint, that would be nothing. It would just be giving spending authority over a special fund, the Medicaid special fund to DIBA and not, you know, it's just a change in who's got the spending authority. Wouldn't have

[Chair Robin Scheu]: change the yield bill or the property tax.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So to the extent that I mean, we're we're making that proposal in this budget to the extent that the body accepts the governor's proposal, that will change the e 300 or three zero one. Okay. So I did wanna mention that that Yep.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: We have a question. Yeah.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: Commissioner, if you go back to e 300, please,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: which is just a new lady. They lost substantial funding from the federal government. Does this cover any of that? It does not. What does not? It does not.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: John?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I'm sorry to go back, I just have a quick question about something here in terms of the telecommunications plan. I did a meeting with public service a while ago here and there, they may have mentioned that they're perhaps wanting to move in this direction here. A lot of that, there's just a substantial cost. Documents planned every three years. Is that what you understand? That's exactly. Yeah. It's cost to it, and they just thought it was, but there could be an interim in between to kind of see where we are. They would work with ChIP. They would be happy to work with But thank you for mentioning that. I should have myself. I didn't know about this. I don't know what the cost would be, but it's 6 figures. The sink,

[Chair Robin Scheu]: you're gonna have

[Rep. David Yacovone]: a five year sink? Well,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: we do this every three years. It's, wrote down a note, may be wrong, so don't quote me here, but it could be up to like 5, half $1,000,000 to do this, substantial. So you stretch it out. Yeah, and it stretches out, and

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: you kind of feel like they're

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: in a perpetual cycle, you know, every year they're having to work on this.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: If it's too close, you just, or if that's all you do, it's your plan,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: it's an extra step.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: It's for

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: for us. Us.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: Yeah. Okay. In

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: 03/2001, you see the standard transfer authority for AHS that they're allowed to do for end of year closeout. In 03/2002, you see, due to the fact that the federal government has extended the home and community based service program for another year, That's what we're doing. We're allowing for the extension of the waiver requirement or the flexibility language to be extended also.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: K. So this is HCBS extended an additional year.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So all we're saying is anything that's connected to that in terms of what flexibility that we've got, we just wanna keep it. Yeah. K. You'll see in e three zero one point three, we are asking for the authority to extend our 11/15 waiver for another, I think, three, five years, four years.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: But you just finished the last one,

[Rep. David Yacovone]: like, year ago.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It it does seem like it's always either we're getting ready for the next waiver or we're Right. So yeah. So this is asking for the ability to negotiate with them. And then similar well, different, but also in terms of waiver. In 03/2001, we're asking for authorization for a 1332 waiver. And that's you know, essentially, it's an innovation waiver under the accountable care act.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: This is for reinsurance.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. And, actually, interesting enough, the Trump administration is actually encouraging states to seek these waivers. I mean, their their whole idea is let's get the states to figure out and do a lot of this stuff. So we're asking for authorization to seek that too.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: More

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: topics. Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Next two sections, three zero six point two and three zero six point three are deal with the health IT fund, you folks may remember is the fund that substantially is dedicated to Vital, the Vermont Information Technology We collect a let's see, point 19% health claims tax. I think Nolan came in and spoke to you on this topic.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I think he did.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So I think you're as familiar probably more familiar than I am. But a compose portion, small portion, but a portion of the health claims tax that we collect goes to the health IT fund to support vital. And when that was set up, the original intent was to ensure statewide electronic medical records, but there was a a sunset on the fund. And over the past years, I mean, if you look at the language, you know, at the bottom of page 21, it starts off with twenty thirteen action resolves, and then there's, you know, a half a dozen action resolves, which basically means we've been acting and resolving to extend this thing Right. To extend the sunset. So here, you know, what we're saying is, you know, give it another year, and, I think you'll find we hope to have a more articulate plan for this funding, whether and not only you see two sections, one extends for fund life, the other extends to claims tax.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: So May I just briefly Go

[Chair Robin Scheu]: ahead, Tate.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: The eleven fifteen waiver, are there positions being requested there? No. So it's just language saying we're gonna continue to believe it. That's right. Thank you.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Thank you.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Yes? Lynn?

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yeah, I'd like to

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: talk about, maybe ask you about the 03/2002 and the 03/2003. Vital's been around over twenty years probably and since then a lot of, when all the hospitals in a lot of places have expanded and created their own and gone with other This is vital, still relevant to all the things that have occurred in the growth of IT over the past twenty some odd years.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So they will tell you they are, and I don't wanna speak for them. I would note that as part of the Rural Health Transformation Project, electronic medical records are one of the specific uses of that fund. On the other hand, I would say that there are many other directions fight could go. So I think they would say very strongly. Diva would be the one to come in and talk. I think it's a reasonable question, but I think they can have a better answer.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yes, I

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: may have missed this, as I was looking for something else in this document, but 306.4, the Medicare Advocacy Program, it says, shall terminate any contract for services for the Medicare Advocacy Program. Can you say just a bit about what that is and who holds that contract?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So what that is and there's actually if you go to the 33 VSA 6,703, you'll see what precisely that program is. It's covered in statute, but it's basically for dual eligibles, Medicare recipients who may also be eligible for Medicaid. And there are written into statute measures of whether that program is doing its work, one of which is our recoveries for dual eligibles, financial recoveries, equal to the cost of running the program. Presumably, recovery should be more so than the cost of running the program. And I think that measure then there's, I think, a second measure within that statute that says, is the program or outcomes sufficient for I forget exactly how it's worded. But the program is run for so called dual eligibles, people who are Medicare recipients who may be responsible for Medicaid. I believe it's run by Vermont Legal Aid,

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: I believe. By who?

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: Vermont Legal Aid? I believe.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Health care advocate. If I may, because there may be people streaming on it too, there's another component to it which is really attractive for Vermonters who are eligible. I think it goes for, there is a reason, 206% of poverty. So for a family of Vermonter, a single Vermonter, making around 30,000 a year, it will pay their Part B premium. That's significant for those of you who may be familiar with Medicare. And then for a family of two, it's in the 40, so a husband and wife, it's not a lot of money, it's modest, to have somebody pick up that premium is a big deal. And they are pushing that, trying to get as many Vermonters into it as possible. Yeah,

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: so the

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: advocacy program, I guess, is to help people access that dual eligibility and, okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I would note that the cancellation of this contract does not in any way imply we don't think the service is important. What it implies is that we don't think the service as contracted is doing what we want it to do. So maybe that means we do it in house. Maybe we do it elsewhere. But this is not saying this is an unimportant service.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Is it saying the service is not Not stopping it. I'm sorry.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I didn't mean is it stopping the service? I believe it's stopping the contract. I can't answer whether it's stopping the service.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So when we get

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I mean, I think they would be a good people to have in there. I just wanted to make clear that it doesn't mean we're not doing this. It does mean that we're not doing it through our contract.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So when DEVA comes in, that's a question that we can be asking.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Thank you. Yep.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: It says contract eliminates funding due to poor performance. So that'd be helpful to understand that.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: That's actually the one I was gonna deal with next, so we can move on from that. There, as I mentioned earlier, there was an appropriation to remind DEBA for HR one. There are a number of positions that they are asking for. And, you know, what I would say is that this is predominantly in response to the more frequent redeterminations that and other paperwork.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Well, physicians. So there's

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: a lot. But we believe that this is what is saying. If we want to maintain these people on the rolls, if we want these people to keep health coverage, they need to reach out to them, they need to work with them, they need need to to book up. And this is unfortunate, but I think it's simply necessary.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: And which this is Steve. Got it. Dave, do have a question?

[Rep. David Yacovone]: This will be a robust conversation because there's people in our community saying, we in the community are best positioned to help people do this new requirement every six months and the work requirements, etc. When we are seeing them, for instance, to do their childcare eligibility, which they have to do also, which is not done by state employees, but overseen by them, done by current child centres, we're really well positioned to say at the same time, Hey, Mr. And Mrs. Yacovone, you've got these other programs, let's help you out at the same time. And I'm not saying this is the wrong way, I'm just saying it's gonna be a conversation.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: You know, over whether it should those resources should be in the community versus

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Yeah. Whether they should be rented out or whether they should be state employees. Who's in the best position to reach people?

[Chair Robin Scheu]: If our goal, if that's

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: what our goal is, stay neutral. Our goal

[Rep. David Yacovone]: is to help them continue with their economic benefits.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Not lose benefits. Certainly there's going to be some needed within Diva, assume, because of the redeterminations that have to happen every six months instead of every year. So that is a staff thing that we have to do in the government, but whether all the

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: rest Didn't

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: we hear that we're going to actually pay out

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: more positions to take that extra load?

[Chair Robin Scheu]: That's what I'm saying, some of these 12 might be doing that

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: work,

[Chair Robin Scheu]: because we knew that there were going to be more positions required because of

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: the federal government requirements. Wayne? It's also ensuring that everybody that's eligible gets in the program. So it's what we control too.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay. Yes. That will be a conversation.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Go ahead.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Give me a heads up. Yes. So in E three zero seven, I mentioned earlier, there's a request both from the agency of education and the agency of human services to move the Medicaid program to human services. That creates a little bit of an awkward situation in the 2027 because they're moving it, I think, the 2027. So for the first quarter, they're asking for permission for DIBA to make a payment that normally would be made from the secretary of education, but you'll you'll be able to explain that.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: May I just Yes. Go ahead, David. Just for clarification. So are there positions attached to that move? No. So help me just understand that moving the administration of Medicaid

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: This is so there's a Medicaid special fund in within the agency within, actually, I believe, the education Agency of Education or K. Know? The spending authority for that is the agency of education. They're just moving that spending authority to Diva. So will that entail switch moving positions over there? I don't think so. Okay. Thank you. So stand now.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Yeah. Yep. Okay.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: This is from the agency of education, not from the Ed Fund?

[Chair Robin Scheu]: That's correct. Agency. That's right.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. It's it's from a special fund, not the education fund. Yeah. It's actually a two there's a fund number that probably would have been easier to put it on here. But yeah. You see the VDH kind of standard language for Ryan White, Title II puns.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: This is the same amount it's been for like ten years or something. That's correct.

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: It's really nice last year.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: It's in the vice chair.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: We'll see. Also annual language in three twelve point one, substance use programs.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Well, that's what I was thinking of. Yep. And

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: in e three twenty two, there's a change made to conform with new federal guidelines regarding SNAP eligibility. Sorry, Adam. What page did you use? Bottom of page 24.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: 24.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: E three twenty two. Okay. Thanks.

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: $1.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: That's a fuel benefit,

[Chair Robin Scheu]: is $21

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: No, I don't actually, DCF would be a better person to answer on that. I can't imagine that that's all that they're

[Chair Robin Scheu]: It's a little extra if you have a person. Yes,

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Tom. So, again, the differences between state statute and federal recent changes in federal law which reduced the number of free square feet from my household eligible for the nominal community. Talk about that, please. Would DCF, of course. Yeah. That's I'm really not the best person to ask on that. I'm sorry. I think DCF

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I skipped all the way down to e three thirty eight point one. Those are the DCF or pardon me. DOC pool positions. And that is for you'll notice there's request for a $200 base request for pretrial supervision kind of laid I'm sorry. I'm totally lost now. Because you've jumped over the other DCF stuff, right? Yeah. That

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I Basically, should ask DCF.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Well, mean, $3.25 is standard language. Okay. That's, you know, just authorizing hot spending.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yep. And then weatherization system, same thing. Okay. You know, part of that money can be used for furnace repair, for example, but only if it's authorized, And so this authorizes that.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay. Now we're back to pilot. Yeah. And then corrections.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So here's the This is a separate yeah. And then, you know, so in other words, the sections above were just

[Rep. David Yacovone]: Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Then there's pool positions, and this is for pretrial supervision program that they wanna roll out statewide.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: This is a program that's been very successful.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And there's actually only a small amount of ask there, because there's money that is from prior appropriations and hasn't been entirely. And then there's the global commitment language regarding education, which again is standard language. And then there is in 05/2001, that is transforming limited service positions into permanent. You'll recall that the positions that were created in section 32 of act 73 or section 33, I guess it was, were limited service. AOE is saying, you know, this transformation project is going to be quite a bit longer than limited service. And they believe that these should be permanent positions, not because we'll be permanently transforming, but because they will be Going longer than minimum requirement.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Well, they also have been understaffed for quite a long time.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So So these two will the pool that we would be letting these positions expire and then just creating the appropriate positions. In e five zero one point two, you see a small change to the you have to go to actually the next page, top of page 27. This is when they created the universal after school and summer special fund. They allowed half $1,000,000 on the nose to be used for administrative expenses. AOE is saying, could you just make that 5%? Up to 5% of admit of revenue forecasted to come into the fund. And keep in mind, the revenue into the fund is the cannabis sales tax, 6%. Right. So that revenue is actually forecasted by the EIBOR, not the actual sales tax amount, but they do forecast the

[Chair Robin Scheu]: excess consensus revenue forecast.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Yeah. And in that consensus is an excise tax forecast. We do the math to figure out what that excise tax, what's the total amount that they are expecting, and then we figure out what the 6% sales tax will be, and that is what will appear in the universal after school and some of them in a budget. They're asking to use 5% of that.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: And if Tom doesn't ask my question,

[Rep. David Yacovone]: I will ask if you go ahead.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And just 5% of the annually forecast revenues, will that ever go below $500,000? If forecasted revenues are right now, revenues are slightly over $10,000,000. So 5% would be not coincidentally about $505,000 or something like that. If forecasted revenues decline, yes. If they I mean, our typically, what we think will happen is that as cannabis use grows, the capacity to administer the program will grow. But as cannabis if cannabis use shrinks, then, you know, the cost of administering the program should probably move with it. The 5% cap is more typical for programs that we administer. Having a fixed amount in statute is built. I'm just curious, because it's if you it hasn't been in place long enough to get used to, but the idea of saying that you may get less on an annual basis or more on an annual basis is without a floor. Don't know, wouldn't that create difficulties in budgeting throughout the programming? I mean, there's just no answer needed. I think the point is well made or well taken. I I yes. But, I mean, there should be some connection to administrative expenses and the size of the fund. AOE actually would be very happy and desirous to come in and speak to you about this fund. It's more complicated to run than your average fund. I mean, there's a lot of recipients of grants. It's a complicated thing to anyway, the this is just changing it to percent of revenue as opposed to a fixed amount. On the next section, see the, as promised earlier, the creation of the school construction aids special fund and the movement of the estate tax excess to the school construction aid special fund as opposed to the

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Higher Education Endowment Trust Fund. And it looks like, I just the word off the street from Autumn is that it looks like House Ann and House Congress are having a joint hearing on the Higher Ed Trust Fund on Thursday. Oh, no.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Stay tuned. So we'll find out more about that. Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: The next actually, I I didn't have comments on the state place students, adult ed, special ed, formula grants.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: It feels like we're getting a dull ed right unless something got changed this year.

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: I think it's how patient may

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: change because we ask them to come back with a report. Right. And we do have a report. Okay. Sorry. On how it gets allocated. Yeah. Okay.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: You also see in the e five hundreds, the Vermont State Teachers Retirement System and pension, state teachers' health care, medical benefits. You'll recall we give them straight appropriations general fund, but there's also they their operations are paid for from the funds.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So this has all been determined by the a debt, etcetera, etcetera. So

[Rep. David Yacovone]: a lot of money.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: K.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I'm moving up to e five sixteen. That's on the top of page 30. And there you see much discussed purchase and use tax phased out from the education fund. And what this says is it actually sets specific dollar amount ceiling on the on the purchase and use tax that will go into the education fund. And that, as you can see, phases down each year by about $10,000,000.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: That's another transportation thing.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: And it will go instead to the transportation fund. And then in e five sixteen point one, you see that the in July 3030, effectively, purchasing use tax, nothing is directed towards CFI. It all will go to the t fund.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: What was that last sentence that goes to the Nothing is directed at the

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It would go all to the trans transportation fund. We go back to the FI. Thank you. So that language in e five sixteen, e five sixteen point one is to enable the enable that to begin. The next two sections are standard language. You guys, when you make an appropriation to the University of Vermont and to the Vermont State University, you actually send it to the agency of administration, finance, and management, and we send them out 12 equal checks. We just divide that out by 12, send it out once a month. This just confirms that. It also shows the smaller appropriations that are carved out to EPSCoR in the case of UVM and allied health in the case of Vermont State. So

[Chair Robin Scheu]: we can solve for a few others.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: And VSAC is the same at this point? Same. And

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: the fund higher education endowment trust fund, those are the that's the change that we made. You'll note that school construction fund is now had. So we put this verbiage into the school construction aid fund. We took it out of the Vermont Higher Education Endowment Trust Fund. It's what e six zero six does. And e seven hundred is part of that is a technical you know, just technical fix, replacing commissioner with secretary and the like. But the kind of the the money section is in the middle of page 34.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Sorry? Go from 600 to $9.20

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Oh, you have to update old language. Okay.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: You didn't get an update

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: as well. I do. So okay. I'm sorry. We had sent an updated copy, and I just what I should have done is reached out and said, make sure you've got that. Do you have the E nine Hundreds?

[Chair Robin Scheu]: We have 923.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Okay. So you go so you skip the e seven. Okay. So I'll verbally tell you and then we've while it's putting out. One of the budgetary requests from the agency of natural resources, Fish and Wildlife department pardon me Parks and Rec Yeah. Commissioner, was to use the land and facilities trust fund, land and facilities trust fund, which is a special fund that is essentially the recipient of logging revenues that goes into this special fund and that helps fund FPR operations. They are currently able to use up to 5% of the amount in that fund. But the fund balance, if you look at the fund balance, has grown

[Chair Robin Scheu]: and

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: it's grown this is from memory, but I'm gonna say it's between 6 and $7,000,000. Look back ten years, it was about $34,000,000. And they are asking to use not five, but up to 8% of the amount in that fund. And they are confirming, and, you know, when you have them in there in here, Richner and Fisco can tell you, I mean, they're confirming it that not have any financial impact on the fund, on the health of the fund. And the reason it has

[Chair Robin Scheu]: that for what? Did you say lobbying?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: No. No. For

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Logging. No.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: No. The a the money comes from predominantly, not exclusively, predominantly from logging operations. And they can use up to 5% for the cost of running FDR. So they're saying it would be better if they could use 3%. So that's actually, if you had this language, that's what it would say. There are also, like I said, some just technical fixes. Again, commissioner becomes secretary based on. Anyway, that's what the b 700 secondtion will say. And you have e nine twenty three, is that right?

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So there's nothing in, ACCD?

[Rep. Michael Mrowicki]: Nothing. Okay. Okay.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Great. And I see that Nick has joined, and I just said there's we're going to be running about fifteen minutes late if you don't mind. We're going to take a break when Adam's done because we need to stretch our legs, if that's okay with you, then we'll get the libraries to

[Rep. David Yacovone]: put in at 03:40.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: The sky's a bit just behind me, so It's taking a while.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: It's always good stuff.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Have to understand. Lynn, go ahead.

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: On the parks and recreation, is this a question of necessity of maintaining facilities, upgrading facilities, impacted by adverse weather, anything like that?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: No. This, I mean, is just the cost of administering the department. It's just a revenue source that, again, has grown slowly but inexorably over the years. And so they're just saying this would be bad at times.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: We can ask when the commissioner comes in, but I'll ask whether or there's any restrictions with the rent used to go back off

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: to the properties. It could be for maintaining the roads or making sure that the water virus and the forest lands, those sorts of things, whether they can use it for general administration. I'm thinking general administration. But I I think that would be better to address. Yeah.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay. So we're back to the

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: The t fund is asking to put a statutory reference to be allowed to keep all the interest that the t fund earns.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: It happens now.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: It swept into that dastardly general fund. How much? I mean, they wow. I mean, actually, t fund, because those guys are struggling, they don't have much of a fund balance.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Yeah. No. I understand. I'm just wondering how much is not now not gonna go into the general fund. It's probably trying find out.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Well, the t fund with state state funds are about $330,000,000. You know, the fund balance at any one time is between zero and a no. I'm kidding. I don't know exactly what the fund balance would be, but No. Probably 3 to $5,000,000 would be, I guess. But I guess we

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Not going to the general fund? That's the interest?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I mean, it again, the interest varies year by year, but

[Chair Robin Scheu]: I get that.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Level of you know, I can tell you for about twenty years, the interest was exactly zero because there was no interest. So

[Chair Robin Scheu]: You know what it was last year?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: I You asked such hard questions.

[Unidentified Member (House Appropriations Committee)]: This is our job.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: If you would let me know what it was last year, that would be very helpful.

[Rep. Wayne Laroche]: And I'm presuming that they don't have that they can't put it into long term investments of any sort to get a higher yield. Probably a low.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Oh, no. This isn't. No. Right. Short short low interest. And keep in mind, this is all in that one pool of a billion and a half to $2,000,000,000 of cash. It's just amount attributed to various funds. So this is coming out of same pool, but how much is attributed to the t fund? I can find out. That I think it's a reasonable question.

[Rep. David Yacovone]: I think it is. Sorry. I Yes, go ahead.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Can you talk about that big pool?

[Rep. Eileen “Lynn” Dickinson]: Is that the one the treasurer manages, the cash flow? Yeah. That's where, you know, all cash is. Okay.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Okay. We Yes. Can just And

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: e nine twenty three point one, what this is this is actually just asking you guys to make our jobs a smidgen easier. By the way it works now is he fund money. This this change would allow a direct appropriation to ACCD or what is now the practice of appropriating to the AOT and having them transferred to ACCD because part of our transportation infrastructure and statute does not allow any transportation like stuff to be appropriated to other than the t fund. Mhmm. So what we're saying here is there there's you see in the language a list of, know, stuff that provides for the exception where we're looking for you to add on allowable exception.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: So that DHCT would handle

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: So you guys can provide them a direct appropriation as opposed to from to the t fund and then transfer it to.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: That's So is there an appropriation of DHCD for this?

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: Every year. Or there has been over the years. I mean, not every, but I don't know when it started. I would say two, three years ago, probably. Okay. Any questions on the effective date?

[Chair Robin Scheu]: Not not worth spending time on that right now. For coming in. A couple of items you'll get back to us for some information and I'm sure as we have questions we'll be checking into the meeting as well.

[Adam Greshin, Commissioner of Finance & Management]: You know where to find it.

[Chair Robin Scheu]: We do and appreciate your time. We're going to take a break until 03:00 and then we're going to have Nick Kramer come in and talk