Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Good afternoon. This is the House Appropriations Committee. It is Wednesday, 01/14/2026. It's 02:45 in the afternoon. We have just finished the one public hearing that we have for the Budget Adjustment Act. So my thought was that we could spend a few minutes debriefing what we heard, making sure we have the right numbers, seeing if we all agree. And we're not going to make any decisions on it. It's just acknowledgment and agreed with our the questions. James is putting together a spreadsheet for us of what the asks are. And so he'll separately put things like when people support something that's already in the governor's proposed budget, so that's separate. Then there's some amount of new asks. And in some cases, I'm not sure they actually said the amount, or we have to find, we have to do some looking. So we'll talk about all of that. And just to give you a sense of the the real timeline, timeline that we're going to do now for the budget adjustment, we still have some more things to learn. You have the revenue forecast on Friday. We have the governor's budget speech on Tuesday. So we need And usually what happens after the governor's speech You may recall last year, they came in and said, Could you move some of this stuff from Section C into budget adjustment? And maybe there's some other things that we move out. So it'll be all of that. So my goal is that by next Friday, the twenty third, we will do a straw poll on the budget adjustment. JFO will work over the weekend and do the rest of their spreadsheets. We'll start to get some of their spreadsheets next week or maybe later this week at any rate. And then we'll do the final vote on that Monday of the budget adjustment. And so then it would be on the floor on the twenty ninth and thirtieth, that Thursday, Friday, and then it'll go over the Senate. And unless one of you wants to take the lead and do the whole floor report, I'll do the floor report, and you'll all be ready for the questions. Does that all make sense? Yeah. Okay. If I haven't volunteered, you want to volunteer, you just let me know. Okay, so You'll be great. So questions, comments, thoughts, what did you hear when we were chatting with people? Dave?

[David Yacovone (Member)]: Well, just clarification, are we going to get something from Theresa Wood's committee?

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yes, she's coming in tomorrow.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: Thank you.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yes, and we'll also get something from healthcare. I don't know that Alyssa is actually coming in to testify. We may just get a letter from him. And then we also have a treasurer, kind of teacher pension thing. Somebody's coming in from the treasurer's office tomorrow to talk about that. So that's another sort of budget adjustment thing we have to do. I saw a mic and then I hear Tom come in.

[Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: Thanks. When we get a spreadsheet, will it include the bottom line with the current DAA, and if there is available funding for somebody? For instance last year we had an amount that we came up with.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Well, we did for the budget itself. For budget adjustment we had a little bit of money for something, but it wasn't a lot. So yes, we're talking about possibly Section eight housing. We're going talk about the treasuries. We have some little pots of money where we can use some things. And I think, I'm not sure what sort of spreadsheets we're going to get from Emily and James about money. We should look very similar to last year. Well, yeah, because we still have money that we gave $50,000,000 to the e board. We have the $30,000,000 We're not going to spend it all on the budget adjustment. There's too much unknown. But there are some things that we're finding that we may have to do something. I don't have a number for you. Don't have a magic number this year at the moment.

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: Wayne and Tom. We're Tom first. Land access opportunity board. They're all asking here and then they're asking for 10 positions in the BAA, for $1,900,000

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: don't think they're asking for 10 positions

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: in the BAA.

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Was

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: reverted and then mapped in July and then it was put into the BAA. It was in the budget for FY27 and it was, No, we put money in for FY26. We put money in, it was in the budget for FY26, and they reverted some of it, which they weren't supposed to do. Well, they had to un revert it, right?

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: No, it

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: was kind of a kind of a carry forward. It was confusing, it

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: was kind of a carry forward that we approved, everybody no one noticed that there was something wrong with it. It was money that they hadn't yet spent on programs.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: The

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: way that it was written in the budget, the administration came back and said, no, that's not the way it goes. That's not the way we do our our business here. And so they got a note. They got an agreement from the administration to put it back into the b a a. So they had access to it, kind of clearing out whatever difficulties we had with the budgeting last summer. So that they can put into these programs. I can't speak to your question about the position but this was this was money that that we all approved and was signed into law as a continuation and would only labor that the technical of it dealt with it. So administration is giving it back to them. They're just doing it in a different way.

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: There are 10 positions here. I recall someplace in here, it's 10 positions.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I don't think so. I think it's related. So it was money that was used in grants to communities, and And there was a reason why they were rolling that toll, because the grant program was going to become operational until it was small. So, at any rate, really don't have There's nothing that says is your 10 positions. No, but it's the document they gave us. Agree, it had been appropriated and it got taken back and now they're out. But I think what your question is, looks like it's

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: kind of positioned someplace there and they didn't give

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: us any description of those positions. I don't

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: think we're funding any 10 positions. If you read what the governor has in his spreadsheet. It's a $21.9. It's dollars a that they took away that the administration took away which they shouldn't have and now they're putting it back. That's all this is. I want to get

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: clear on that because when I started looking at it what they told us we were going to be doing is training up developers and these folks here don't have

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: any This is to provide the resources needed for the homes for all phase two in the secure house coaching program. So this is exactly the same stuff that the people would say support the governors recommend for talking about. So I think it's your advantage, Tom, right?

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: I'm saying I'm making some more sense because I have a somewhat pleasant feeling about it this time. If we have copies of the information, they should be from they were here in December so it should be in our in our website for what they would how they explained it but I'm pretty confident that they weren't asking for 10 positions within LAOB that the pro I mean, and I'm guessing here, so I don't want to be held to a truthiness standard of just saying that it may be supporting 10 positions or may be supporting other positions in the work that they're doing without it being direct employees of the state.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: It also may be like their hopes and dreams of for the future. I mean we may have I don't remember. So I would go back and look at the documentation they came in

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: between now and whenever we're taking the twenty third we'll get a clarification on it.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: Yeah they came in on the sixteenth.

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: We had to we could ask them to come back. When I looked into it, spent a little time looking into it. I'm concerned that they're going to be providing a function that's going to be useful. Because developers usually self, you know, there's a lot to develop. You've to know architecture, got to know real estate, you've to know

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: They're not doing that, they're giving grants. They're not doing that stuff.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: But yes, we can get the clarification.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I'm looking quickly at their It's a very free up stroke rate is what you had already done last year. Right, If you have a question about what they're doing, that should have been raised flat here.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: We're just

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: sending out the same money. Right, and you take a look, you guys think I'm not seeing anything about any 10 physicians anywhere. So I'm not sure where that's going. So let's move on to other things. That was

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: just on the letters of the legislative council. So just know that that goes into the BAA's language, giving no money and time to do it in different budgets. And I'll meet with Scott Moore after the budget's announced, but maybe before September 3, I have a clear understanding of what because it sounds like it's a pretty lateral merger in terms of people that

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: are It's just having dividing the people up that were in legislative operations into either going to JFO or to

[David Yacovone (Member)]: the Yeah.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: That's the

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: expertise. Right. And we've been doing that for the last nine months since Mike Frott left. So we're sort of codifying what's been.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: Yeah, but it is right that they were this back and forth. Mean, was a thing between legislative council and JFO and the discussions with mergers or just can't be formal or maybe at the Bluemarch or something like that, it's how they would go and figure it out.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: So that should be all right. Any other comments from what we heard today from folks? I

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: think just one for me, one of the last ones, funding provided as allocated the 2% increase in The UK.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: In areas on aging?

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: Yeah, have case management. Case management, something wasn't given, a percentage was not provided.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Right, so we don't know. We

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: don't know what that is.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: We don't know what the dollar amount is, and it sounded like three of the four quarters they said just general fund and the other fourth general global commitment. I don't understand that. And then, but they were supposed to be part of the 2% Medicaid rate increase. Dave, is this yours? Dale? Yes. And so maybe a chat with Nolan or something. It. Well, and also why they didn't get it. I think they got it, but it didn't cover their administrative oversight. Or I think what I heard also, or in addition to that, I heard that some services got the bump up and others were actually decreased. That was the HSBC.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: Was the ERC Residential, that was the Catholic Charities?

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yes. Yes.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: Was talking about that one.

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Right. Right.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: That's

[David Yacovone (Member)]: the And I think we're gonna get something from Human Services Committee on that. Probably. We're gonna be taking testimony on it. They're saying the department reallocated some of the enhanced residential care funding amongst three tiers, eliminated one tier, took that money and put it into tier two and three. And it's the Alzheimer's folks have indicated it's making it very difficult for people beginning Alzheimer's to get into residential care because there's no corresponding reimbursement for them, creating some real hardship. But because the money's already been spent, it's up, I wanna reduce the tier two and three, and take it back from them, give it to the one. How much of an up, I don't know, but I think human service it does. I don't know if it's bigger than a bread box or not. And then the other one, the lady, I don't know if you caught it, she's very eloquent, she mentioned my name? Oh yes, she did,

[Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: I wrote that down. Your

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: cousin, Dave, yeah. That's

[David Yacovone (Member)]: why I'm asking. That was the 2% cost of living that was omitted from them. They can't get, with the new changes in Washington on Medicaid, they used to be able go back and bill proactively for up to six months, they can't do that anymore. So if people wanted to use Medicaid, you could only start, you could do it for April, May and June, and they're saying, please do that, make up the back months from March to July, which your general fund, and I don't know if we're, I guess we should ask Nolan if he can calculate that,

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: because

[David Yacovone (Member)]: people are so inclined. Well, should know what

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: the number is regardless of whether we're inclined. Should So get some other I don't know if you guys can ask someone to figure that out. I was also really surprised that with the recovery centers, they were very clear on how to distribute the money to a because they figured it out, what they all needed, and then whoever it was didn't even do it. That's what I want to know is why was it not distributed the way the man was. I what this made sense. I don't know. Is that yours? Of course. But you know, it was, it was, you know it was they put in what they needed yeah right and then it's all backed up with you know their testimony etc in terms of the intentions and right

[David Yacovone (Member)]: they stated differently

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah, who does that? Where does that come from? Health department? Yeah, health department, I think. We need to dig into that.

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: That seems like a problem. Well, I looked at that one and they said they needed $420,000 because there were six who needed to not get the money, and that should only come to $300,000

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: No, it wasn't supposed to be 50,000 each one. The 12 recovery centers said, here's what we need for each one, and it was going to add up to the 800,000. And so some needed more and some needed less, some people didn't need $50,000 and they got this. Mean, they

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: just did this, it's like they didn't even talk to them.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: She stood at that.

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: No, they just

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: did it the way they wanted to. They didn't listen to what the recovery centers they needed.

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Anyway, they came up with a shortfall.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah. Well, what they thought, but not a shortfall from the total amount they do appropriate. Right. So they didn't give the

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: cameras ready. They were sick of the good money.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: You did. Everybody got the amount they thought they were going get. You know things that I mean I never know well where is language needed right because sometimes you don't want to name each organization and board, but it seems like maybe you need

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: to get more specific.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yes, well and every year we say this and every year we think you've got more and then something Better like this and better though. The same problem we ran into with the adult education. Yes, still. There's a report on people trying to do it, but they don't agree.

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: Well, somebody should have got considerably more money than what they asked for or what they needed.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Right, some people got more than what they needed. And so that doesn't make any sense.

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: They're now volunteering to get it back. Well, you

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: know how we overfund all these things. That was something and then I guess we'll hear from Theresa, but the hop thing, that was sort of a surprise that we needed, you know, I don't know where that's coming from. I'm aware that we need to start off with going to come that we probably needed to do that. Because the total cost, I mean, is because H91 didn't go through, then the appropriation that was in H91 was Bridges to Health. Yeah, for Bridges to Health was actually picked up by Nuvia, correct? And then, yes. Okay, yes. Our audience in there is nodding. Then, so then, what they seem to be talking about is a kind of cost associated with finding a new home and kind of transferring to that home in terms of records, in terms of administrative capacity in the early months in July because oftentimes organizations have to wait for funding for several months. At any rate, that's how I understand that 167 ks. That's not the cost of the whole program. No, isn't because I think it was $5.65 or something like that. But it sounds like it's transitioning to the free and reduced clinics. Yes, that is Which makes sense, where it should go I think Mike Fisher said that when he was here, so instead of UVM taking it on, it would go where it's needed. But it really does help our microsorfers and our dairy products and things like that. That's kind of an important thing, not that much money. Other comments, thoughts? I have one. Yes, Dave.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: Tiff, if you don't mind, it's in your area.

[Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: I wondered

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: if I

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: You all have thoughts about my experience. I

[David Yacovone (Member)]: didn't know if we could ask Joint Fiscal to help us on this, but Michelle Fay from Voices for Vermont Children's caught my attention on the reach up when she indicated, you know, the reach up block grant is $47,000,000. They spent 36. And she'd been she said, instead of the money staying with reach up, she mentioned 6,000 children, 50% of the poverty level, it's poorest of the poor, the money's been leaving the program. When DCF came in and testified on the BAA, I mentioned that, I said, gee, you're booking 3,000,000 for the bottom line, could you have used it on reach out? They didn't really answer. When Michelle spoke, I may have read much more into this than she said. I almost thought that the law said it should stay and reach up. I don't know if anybody else caught that.

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: I did.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: Yeah. You should mention it was a statute.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: The statute. I thought if JFO could help us, they might get sent out to find things.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I'll ask. Do you know, Deborah? No. Not off the top of my head, but I will ask JFO to clarify that for us. The question I had was regarding the Vermont Food Bank you're asking for 1.5 it sounds like they got 500 last year they asked for two and you only appropriated? I think they asked for more than that. I think they asked for 5,000,000 or 3,000,000? They haven't had times I guess. Yeah, right. So, okay. Vermonter sting and vermonter sting?

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: I think it is.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah, I

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: think it is.

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: It's just, it's the farm. They

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: have several, I mean I could fact they have several programs that are in their portfolio of managing, but we can child check them. I know that last year all of our working lands, Vermonters, treating Vermonters, we shorted their asks. Yes. Of of them, they don't get short of that.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: Guys, I know what you mean. Yeah.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: And if

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I'm remembering correctly, this fall,

[David Yacovone (Member)]: you never know, the food bank got

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: $2.50 ks. Yes, gave them 200. Right, that was just so that they could get people fed because it's going to take a week to get SNAP up So and that was a quick short term thought. So I think, yeah, looking into that a little

[Wayne Laroche (Member)]: bit would be good.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Because I know that the federal government also wasn't that, that was one of the first grants that was taken away. It was it was something in Agency of Ag. It wasn't the same program, but it was a thing that was taken away for like 1,700,000.0.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: Well, we'll have to track it down. Know that Vermont was shooting with Montrose about shorted, they've got like 25% of the

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: the other thing I didn't hear a number was by state primary care the FQHCs about a rate adjustment and I have no idea how much that should cost me change or somebody else they just talked about it last year we had exact numbers you know $4,315.20 yeah there's going to be an inflation if that's right and I don't know what that is and the percentage or the dollar amount so that would be good to find out who has that good seats I

[David Yacovone (Member)]: think I did. Okay. Somebody else wants it?

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Nope. I'm doing the floor report, this one's yours.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: But I almost thought, may I, we put money in the budget, almost every million.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: We sell

[David Yacovone (Member)]: For the FAQ. I almost thought to myself, I said, gee, is she talking about f y twenty seven

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: as

[David Yacovone (Member)]: opposed to BAA? Because we did give them money. BAA. Right?

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Yeah. We did. We gave them those. But that's not subject. They're short and we So

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: would you just check into that, Dave? Sure. Okay. When we have to subscribe valid transit, he said he had an $800,000 deficit and I think he'll take whatever support we could offer and get back to the gym. Well, yeah. So Jim used to be just Addison County, so after Addison County Transit Resources, so I've known them since those days and they've since picked up, they've asked me to take over all these other ones. But I think there was also a contract, he wrote in December because he probably couldn't get in during our December time to talk about this. They were still waiting on the contracts too, at one point from

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: From them?

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: From AHS. Like five months in, still didn't have a contract from the budget. So this seems to be an ongoing issue, too, about contracts getting executed so people can do the work.

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: That would be related to the federal money being on and off and on and off.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Well not this particular this is money that we gave them in the budget not any federal money it shouldn't have to

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: do anything right we should have it yeah

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: so we can that might be is that transportation I

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: don't know what that is

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: I know, I could look into it.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yeah, I'll find you an email at doctor.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: It's not emergency medical transport. So

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: all of them are required, as I said, it's an entitlement, they're required to take people to their Medicare patients, to their appointments. I just wrote that

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: it's for non emergency medical.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Yes, that is what it's called. They're required by law to take people.

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: Way back when, when they first started this stuff, there was a guy who was at one of our legislative breakfasts who complained all the time about the fact that, and I think this may be related to his medical appointments and you're going to the hospital, He was always complaining because they wouldn't pick you up. You know, it's so many per and it was reserved for your medical necessary healthcare related things, because it's paid for by Medicaid. And he was complaining about the fact that he couldn't figure out to go to the American Legion on a social event that he wanted to go to, which is a whole other issue. But because it was limited to only so much per week or per month, that may be part of this. If they spent more for people, I would need to go to three doctors in one week if you've got continued ongoing care things. I'm just wondering if that's

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I do. This

[David Yacovone (Member)]: is getting a little disproportionate.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: I tell, yeah, I don't know.

[David Yacovone (Member)]: Just teasing. Some

[Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: of us like

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: We can share the work though. Right, share with you, David, I'll share with you Jim's email explaining some of this stuff. Okay. Okay. And so I'm thinking that since there was no floor, virtually no floor, just announcements, I don't know if anybody's listening, but we should probably, have they started to public to the whole? No, no floor still. They are. It's late. I'll let you

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: know when it comes.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay, that would be great. Oh, never mind, some floors. Okay, so we'll need to go up. Assuming, Tom, you know about this stuff better than

[Thomas Stevens (Member)]: I think it's a motile four or something like that.

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: I hope it's a motile four, it's not the, this is just an explanation of the process as far as I know it's not being read the candidates, that's a different, that would be a different vote for the election.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Right, although I think they're wandering around here today. Yeah. Yeah, are. It

[Tiffany Bluemle (Ranking Member)]: depends on how long

[Trevor Squirrell (Clerk)]: business side of the child has a slide deck that's pretty thorough in terms of the history and the history of the process. I'm not speaking on anything related to this today. So yeah, I hope it wouldn't be a failure.

[Robin Scheu (Chair)]: Okay, all right. So then I think I'll call it for the day. We're going to start doing markup at 09:30 tomorrow morning. We'll start with the spreadsheet. We'll do what we've done in the past, which is we'll go through and if we're not ready something, and I think there's a lot we may not be ready for, but we'll get a sense of what still needs to be done. And if we can check things off, the more we can check off, the better. But if we're not ready, we'll just, you know, do the on that. Yes? Well, House General is taking the testimony on. Right. Our church is tomorrow morning. So you may not be 100%.